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Research Shows E-Cigs Might Be As Good For Quitting As Nicotine Patches

timothy posted about a year ago | from the why-don't-all-smokers-switch-to-e-cigs? dept.

Medicine 314

"Taking a drag from an e-cigarette may be just as safe and effective as slapping on a nicotine patch for smokers struggling to quit, according to the first physician-run trial to compare the two products." That's according to research recently published in The Lancet (PDF) and reported by Bloomberg. Why is this significant? From the article: "If European and U.S. regulators treat e-cigarettes as medical devices, yet leave cigarettes on general sale, tobacco makers 'will retain their market monopoly, and we will never learn whether e-cigarettes would replace traditional cigarettes if allowed to continue evolving and competing with smoked tobacco on even terms,' [wrote clinical psychology professor Peter Hajek]. The results will also be presented today at the European Respiratory Society’s annual meeting in Barcelona. E-cigarettes have taken Europe and the U.S. by storm. In France, there are more than 1 million regular users, according to a government-commissioned report published in May. Sales worldwide will probably approach $2 billion by the end of this year and top $10 billion by 2017, according to a forecast by Wells Fargo & Co."

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second hand e-smoke (2, Funny)

goombah99 (560566) | about a year ago | (#44793363)

yummy, I always like breathing in someone else's medicated ethylene glycol.

Re:second hand e-smoke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793409)

I hope you never eat tomatoes, potatoes or eggplants.

Re:second hand e-smoke (4, Informative)

CastrTroy (595695) | about a year ago | (#44793437)

There's an e-cig kiosk at my local mall. In Ottawa, Canada. You can't smoke real cigarettes anywhere. Not in any workplace (including restaurants and bars), I think the one exception being hotel rooms, but that's only in designated smoking rooms, and not in common areas. You can't even smoke in public parks. Anyway, the people selling the e-cigs were smoking them at the kiosk. I didn't notice any odour, and it definitely didn't bother me. But I do kind of wonder if there are any effects anyway. If completely safe, I wouldn't mind this coming into general use for people who wish to smoke. It's much nicer than stepping into an elevator with a person who just came in from smoking, or even an elevator that was recently used by a smoker. The smell tends to linger quite a while. I used to not think it was such a bad thing, but since they've just about outlawed it everywhere, I've started to get bothered by it more and more. Also, can't say I'd miss having tons of cigarette butts left on the ground at the entrance to every building.

Re:second hand e-smoke (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793609)

As a former smoker, I tried the E-cigs to see what all the fuss is about and it tasted fake as hell -- and saying something tobacco-related tastes fake is a big deal considering that cigs are already doped with all kinds of nasty additives.

When I smoked cigarettes, I smoked American Spirit, because they claimed that their tobacco was free of additives. Before that, I smoked Marlboro Reds, the manliest cigarette around. Camels are fine too, especially Camel wides. Benson and Hedges are also good, and GPC's have a hip appeal.

What real men must never smoke, when it comes to tobacco, are menthols. Menthol cigarettes are for girls, gays, and niggers. Don't be caught dead smoking Newports or Virginia Slims. If I smell a mentholated cigarette at a party, I will track the motherfucker down and punch it right out of his jaw. Women smoking mentholated cigarettes are a mixed bag, as smoking cigarettes causes vaginas to smell and the smoking of mentholated cigarettes is a good indicator of how trashy a woman is, specifically with respect to how many black guys she's taken to bed. And you don't want one of those, believe me, I've tried them -- you'd get more friction on your dick from a pitcher of warm water. Seriously, some of these women have taken a lot of dicks. A lot.

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

blackraven14250 (902843) | about a year ago | (#44793715)

That's why you should opt for the non-tobacco flavors. They can be quite tasty, especially from good, reputable brands - which is not the majority of the cheaply made yet similarly priced bullshit you find in convenience stores.

Re:second hand e-smoke (0)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year ago | (#44793749)

The whole point is to get off of a very addictive drug, nicotine.

Re:second hand e-smoke (5, Insightful)

Tyler Eaves (344284) | about a year ago | (#44793775)

Is it? Is there any *real* evidence that pure nicotine, in these sort of doses, is actually harmful for you, when not associated with tars, benzene, and all the other nasties in cig smoke? Or is it more like caffeine, where it might exactly be "healthy", but the real risk at typical usage levels is miniscule.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

Ksevio (865461) | about a year ago | (#44793847)

Well if you don't mind being addicted and the costs related to it, then go ahead and do it.

Re:second hand e-smoke (2)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year ago | (#44793855)

Yes, there are studies showing harmful effects on people using nicotine gum or patches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Toxicology [wikipedia.org]

Re:second hand e-smoke (3, Informative)

ShanghaiBill (739463) | about a year ago | (#44794061)

Yes, there are studies showing harmful effects on people using nicotine gum or patches.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Toxicology [wikipedia.org]

These harmful effects are minimal. From your citation: ... no epidemiological evidence supports that nicotine alone acts as a carcinogen in the formation of human cancer .... The only demonstrated negative effect was on birth defects, and I am skeptical about that: many of the women studied had switched from smoked tobacco when they realized they were pregnant, so it is likely many of them where still smoking during the first month of gestation without realizing they were knocked up, and it is also likely that many of them were sneaking some smokes later in the pregnancy. Also, people that smoke tend to have plenty of other unhealthy habits as well, like drinking alcohol and eating crap food. So this might be a "correlation is not causation" situation.

Re:second hand e-smoke (4, Insightful)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44793831)

Huh. I thought the real point was to at least avoid the harm of smoking tobacco. Even if I never quit the ecig, I think I've still done something very, very good for my health.

Re:second hand e-smoke (3, Insightful)

budgenator (254554) | about a year ago | (#44793725)

If your going to troll as an AC, don't Preveiw under your UID then post Anonymously, because your sig is inserted into the post,

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:second hand e-smoke (2)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year ago | (#44793777)

That was his original user name but his karma is so far in the toilet that an AC who starts at 0 has a better chance of being seen. He puts it there and is laughing at you right now for getting his troll seen. You might want to look at this. [kuro5hin.org]

Re:second hand e-smoke (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793787)

You're a funny man, son. Hell, I like you. If I knew you personally I'd take you to Tijuana and buy you a shot of Patron and a fifty-dollar blowjob.

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:second hand e-smoke (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793879)

Stop impersonating me!

-- Ethanol fueled

Hang on a minute, maybe I'm impersonating you.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

Pseudonym Authority (1591027) | about a year ago | (#44794039)

I wish I could get menthol weed. I mean, I'm sure I could make it, but....

Re:second hand e-smoke (2, Informative)

venicebeach (702856) | about a year ago | (#44793817)

If completely safe, I wouldn't mind this coming into general use for people who wish to smoke.

It's probably not completely safe for the smoker. A recent (just last month) study found that e-cigarettes do indeed contain carcinogens, in some cases showing similar levels of formaldehyde and acrolein as regular cigarettes.

Article about the study. [yahoo.com]

Re:second hand e-smoke (4, Insightful)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44793867)

Your post is very disingenuous. The article itself says "3 out of 10" are found to contain acrolein and formaldehyde. For 10 bonus points, explain why they contain it and the others don't. I find it very odd that some ecigs are able to synthesize these two chemicals from the 3 main ingredients of eliquid and others don't. Perhaps what you mean to say is "A study found that if you put similar levels of formaldehyde and acrolein in you liquid mixtures as found in regular cigarettes, then they will contain similar levels of..." you get the point.

Re:second hand e-smoke (3, Informative)

venicebeach (702856) | about a year ago | (#44794037)

I think you've misunderstood the summary of the results. Formaldehyde was present in all of the vapors tested, but in varying degrees. Only 1 in 3 reached the levels of regular cigarettes.

Re:second hand e-smoke (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44794071)

I tried to use e-cigs to quit, but they didn't provide the satisfaction of real cigarettes so I just ended up alternating between them and real cigarettes.

I did eventually manage to quit, but it was only by going cold turkey. Every time I wanted a smoke, I would start lifting weights instead. By the time I was finished with my workout, I found that I no longer had that immediate craving. After about the first month, I reached my first day in a long time where I didn't even think about smoking. Five years later and I'm still clean.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

Xicor (2738029) | about a year ago | (#44793453)

i cant stand being around people who smoke real cigarettes, but surprisingly, i dont mind people who use e-cigs

Re:second hand e-smoke (2)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about a year ago | (#44793965)

I smoke e-cigars. They're safe, but they still smell like burning camel shit.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

iggymanz (596061) | about a year ago | (#44793471)

hard to do, I've noticed. the droplets are big and don't go that far. better than cigarette smoke anyway, second hand smoke doesn't dry my eyes out

Re:second hand e-smoke (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793497)

yummy, I always like breathing in someone else's medicated ethylene glycol.

Then you should jump on the Stop Flatulence bandwagon.
You are currently breathing in more Farts than Second hand e-smoke or even second hand smoke for that matter.

I am more inclined to believe that you are overweight, drink too much, don't wear your seat-belt, eat foods laced with pesticides and other known toxins, support companies that pollute and test hygiene products on animals but choose to jump all over others peoples business stating what they can and cannot do. I would bet you are also an active member in a religious group at that.

You are one of the MANY that take a small piece of information and use that to skew the truth.
That is known as Propaganda.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793503)

Perhaps you mean propylene glycol? There's a huge difference.

Re:second hand e-smoke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44794073)

Haha. yeah, I chuckled about that too. Pretty sure nobody is vaporizing ethylene glycol for inhalation. I hope not, anyway.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

fred911 (83970) | about a year ago | (#44793511)

It's not smoke, it's vapor.

Re:second hand e-smoke (5, Informative)

volkerdi (9854) | about a year ago | (#44793529)

yummy, I always like breathing in someone else's medicated ethylene glycol.

It's propylene glycol. But besides that, second hand nicotine was never an issue (and propylene glycol is recognized as safe, and even used in many asthma inhalers). The harm from second hand smoke comes from the smoke particles, something that's not present in e-cig vapor.

Re:second hand e-smoke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793681)

yummy, I always like breathing in someone else's medicated ethylene glycol.

It's propylene glycol.

Both are used as bases for e cigs, depends on the liquid manufacturer.

http://vaperanks.com/propylene-glycol-vs-vegetable-glycerin-e-liquid-whats-the-difference/ [vaperanks.com]

Re:second hand e-smoke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793963)

Both are used as bases for e cigs, depends on the liquid manufacturer.

Did you actually read the link you posted? Glycerin is *not* the same as ethlylene glycol.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44793731)

second hand nicotine was never an issue (and propylene glycol is recognized as safe, and even used in many asthma inhalers). The harm from second hand smoke comes from the smoke particles, something that's not present in e-cig vapor.

Safe in asthma inhaler != safe when heated. The asthma inhalant is delivered by pressure. And there is still plenty of argument over the safety of both propylene glycol and ethylene glycol when heated, and both are used in e-cigs. As well, nicotine and tar will build up on surfaces from smoking and will transfer by touch.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44793929)

I don't know that any eliquids contain ethylene glycol. If yours does, it's time to switch to a new brand. Are you thinking of glycerol [wikipedia.org] ? Propylene glycol, glycerol and nicotine (and flavorings) are the usual ingredients in ecigs. It seems like a very easy thing to check if the amount of heat applied is enough to chemically alter them. Since ecigs don't get all that hot, I just don't see it happening. As for tar build up, all I can say is WTF? There is no tar.

Re:second hand e-smoke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793979)

and both are used in e-cigs

Citation needed.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about a year ago | (#44793985)

Re:second hand e-smoke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44794049)

And that article you link to makes it sound like the FDA we all know in the US is the one who brings all this up... but the last line made me wonder why the hell they're talking about the Consumer Act of Philippines.. did a little googling

Food and Drug Administration Philippines
www.fda.gov.ph

Re:second hand e-smoke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793663)

Moron. There is nothing more to say except: Moron.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

WarJolt (990309) | about a year ago | (#44793833)

I hate breathing in second hand antifreeze too. Good thing most people smoke Propylene Glycol.

Re:second hand e-smoke (1)

ssufficool (1836898) | about a year ago | (#44793873)

yummy, I always like breathing in someone else's medicated ethylene glycol.

Propylene glycol. Not vehicle coolant (ethylene glycol). That would kill you. Propylene glycol has an antiseptic effect that *may* prevent lung infections.

Re:second hand e-smoke (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44794069)

It dissipates so rapidly you'd have to be uncomfortably close to actually inhale any.

Might be? (4, Interesting)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44793373)

Anecdotal evidence: Myself and many of my friends switched to ecigs with success. Many of us tried and failed with other methods. Now I have a roaring ecig addiction that tobacco just can't satisfy. So that's not quite a successful quit yet, but in terms of harm reduction it's looking good so far. Since I can control the strength of the liquid by mixing it myself, I'm working on a very long, gentle taper down.

Re:Might be? (1)

rikkards (98006) | about a year ago | (#44793445)

More anecdotal evidence: Looking at the several people I know who switched from cigarettes to e-cigs, this is common. At least you can control it.

Re:Might be? (2, Interesting)

Attila Dimedici (1036002) | about a year ago | (#44793455)

Good luck. My recommendation to cigarette smokers who wish to quit is to first switch to a tobacco product that does not have a fixed amount of nicotine in each unit (natural wrapper cigars, pipes, or, as one cigarette smoker I know is doing, hand rolled cigarettes using pipe tobacco). There are two problems that most cigarette smokers have with quitting smoking. The first is the oral fixation on the process of smoking (something that is, in and of itself, not that very difficult to overcome, but it is the reason why chewing tobacco and snuff don't work for most smokers trying to quit). The second and more difficult part is the nicotine addiction. What makes the cigarette nicotine addiction so much harder to break than other addictions is that every cigarette of a particular brand has exactly the same amount of nicotine as every other cigarette of that brand.

Re:Might be? (2)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44793567)

Good advice. I would add that finding loose tobacco that is nothing but tobacco (no additives or wacky processing) can help a lot too. I did exactly that and for the first week or so I couldn't smoke enough of them. It wasn't satisfying in the same way as the manufactured cigarettes of the processed rolling tobacco. After the initial transition I noticed that I dropped to 75% or less of my previous smoking level and didn't feel the need to smoke as strongly or as often. I don't know what those guys are doing to the tobacco in manufactured smokes, but it's something evil.

Re:Might be? (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44793921)

I found going to the gym works.
My intention wasn't to quit smoking.
I found that smoking before spending an hour on a treadmill dramatically effected my performance. Not rocket science there. Any exposure to carbon monoxide will do that.
Smoking recently afterwards however made me feel like shit.

I guess the fairly close association with smoking -> negative physical response broke the addiction.

Re:Might be? (4, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | about a year ago | (#44793487)

So that's not quite a successful quit yet, but in terms of harm reduction it's looking good so far. Since I can control the strength of the liquid by mixing it myself, I'm working on a very long, gentle taper down.

SINNER! Repent and accept our righteous anti-smoker ways! You're polluting us! You smell bad! People like you are scummy addicts who should be locked away in jail!

Or something. Look... the fact is, the anti-smoker contingent is trying to ban e-cigs and government is trying to tax the hell out of them because they look at it as people 'escaping' their 'public health' tax... so it's a match made in heaven.

What's really telling is that I was sucking on an e-cig in a hospital... and no doctor or nurse said a word. Wanna know why? Because it's not harmful to them or their patients... and it's no worse than a patch. They want people to quit. The jury's still out on whether e-cigs help with that, but they clearly don't hurt... and from a harm reduction standpoint, they're about a hundred times better.

But... no matter. You are a sinner, a scumbag... an addicted fool we need to tax every penny from... for your own good of course!

Re:Might be? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44794065)

What's amazing is that you are able to say something interesting, while still managing to come across as an idiotic juvenile.

Please finish your training already, so that you can participate as an adult here, whether as a girl or a woman.

Re:Might be? (1)

jamesh (87723) | about a year ago | (#44793551)

A guy I know switch to ecigs, not so much as a path to quitting, but because it's a less unhealthy alternative. He said that after a week or so his sense of smell had returned, and after a bit longer he wasn't coughing up revolting crap each morning. And I certainly noticed that he didn't pollute every room he entered.

Once you remove the smoke from the equation, is nicotine any worse than caffeine? Aside from the gross birth defects that is.

Re:Might be? (1)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44793583)

Once you remove the smoke from the equation, is nicotine any worse than caffeine?

I am having a bit of trouble with that. I like nicotine. If the health effects are minimal enough, then why was I quitting again? I'm tapering it down anyway (I reduced my caffeine consumption years ago). Should I still go all the way? I'm going to let future me deal with that issue.

Re:Might be? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793645)

I've never smoked. I use an e-cig occassionally (about one to three times a week) when I need extra mental focus. It feels very similar to caffeine but with less side effects. I don't feel any signs of addiction, or withdrawal when I'm not using it. It barely even feels recreational -- there's no real "high". To minimize risk I use unflavored nicotine in pure propylene glycol and only inhale to the mouth like you would with a cigar. I use a strong nicotine solution so absorbing it like this is effective. IMO nicotine (as opposed to tobacco) is a valuble tool with mimimal abuse potential, just like caffeine.

Re:Might be? (1)

pseudofrog (570061) | about a year ago | (#44793577)

More anecdata:

I switched too, and I sure do love my e-cigs.

The bad part is I'm still spending money I don't have to, and there's definitely an element of addiction at play.

The good part is my lungs much, much improved, I don't get tired climbing stairs, I don't stink, I'm saving a *ton* of money, and my risk of lung cancer it not much higher that of someone who's never smoked (as I'm not yet 30). I also get to play with fun flavors and stuff in addition to different types of e-cigarettes, which makes it a bit of a hobby instead of just a habit.

These things can literally save millions of lives, and they ought to be not just accepted but encouraged.

Re:Might be? (4, Interesting)

AbRASiON (589899) | about a year ago | (#44793691)

Further anecdotal evidence:

Every person I know who has tried e-cigs seems to feel better and find it's something they can stick with. I'd rather everyone were addicted to those horrible things than the ghastly alternative, at least it's a start.

Re:Might be? (4, Interesting)

eriks (31863) | about a year ago | (#44793959)

Another anecdote: Me. Almost exactly a year ago I was a smoker, then a year minus one day ago, I was an "e-cig" vaper. I made the switch that easily and quickly. And (so far) it has been a tobacco *replacement* not a route for quitting, though I can see how it could be, I'm just not using it for that it. There was an initial learning curve and expense, but now it's cheaper, and (theoretically) safer. Nicotine is *not* a harmful drug. The low doses vapers or smokers consume are decidedly non-harmful, when compared to *many* other substances that modern humans typically eat, drink and inhale. It's demonstrably non-carcinogenic. Though I guess we can't expect a rational response to the dangers of ingested substances with the state of things being as they are.

I wish we had hundreds of thousands of people marching in the streets chanting "Be Reasonable!" and "Use Science, not Fear", and maybe even "Have a Heart!".

Pulling An All Nighter On Caffeine & Nicotine (2)

wrackspurt (3028771) | about a year ago | (#44793379)

Caffeine and nicotine got me through all nighters cramming for exams but quitting smoking was one of the hardest things I've ever done. It took me 9 years of trying and failing to quit to finally kick the habit. I think I just got too embarrassed to once again claim to be quitting. I don't know the neuroscience but caffeine and nicotine are powerful stimulants. I might go for E-cigs if there's no bad health side effects.

The reasons are multifarious (5, Insightful)

stoploss (2842505) | about a year ago | (#44793581)

I started smoking at age 20. Deliberately. Of my own volition. Primarily for the stimulant effect and secondarily to defy the goddamn anti-smoking meddlers... their disingenuous, logical fallacy-laden TV commercials really induced my rage.

I collected approximately nine pack-years of cigarette smoking.

I broke the nicotine physical addiction several times over those years (zero nicotine intake for 3+ weeks); however, what kept dragging me back to smoking was the fact that I mentally identified myself as a smoker. Smoking was part of my identity, which meant that cessation was always in dichotomous tension between "health" and "self". To put it in perspective, I likely self-identified more strongly with the term "smoker" than the term "American".

I quit my smoking habit permanently the day I had my first e-cig delivered in 2009. A few months later I tried a single cigarette, found the taste revolting, and haven't smoked since then. Smoking is unwieldy and a serious inconvenience during the winter (I never smoked inside my domicile). Downsides of quitting smoking included having my sense of taste/smell return... the world is revolting and ignorance is bliss.

Notwithstanding, after several years of "vaping" e-cigs inside our home no one has ever been able to tell—my life partner would tell me, because she hates the smell of cigarettes and always comments whenever we are near someone who recently smoked.

I have given e-cigs to all my smoker friends and relatives. All of these people have subsequently quit smoking (some of these smokers had been engaged in the habit for 30+ years). In fact, they all quit using nicotine altogether, leaving me as the sole remaining individual in my monkeysphere who cultivates a nicotine addiction.

Re:The reasons are multifarious (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793735)

I started smoking at age 20. Deliberately. Of my own volition. Primarily for the stimulant effect and secondarily to defy the goddamn anti-smoking meddlers...

Then

I have given e-cigs to all my smoker friends and relatives. All of these people have subsequently quit smoking

Doesn't that actually make you one of the "goddamn anti-smoking meddlers"?

Re:The reasons are multifarious (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793945)

What fucking assclown voted this "offtopic"? By all means, vote it down if you don't like it - but offtopic? Get a grip.

Re:The reasons are multifarious (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44793973)

After I quit smoking, every time I saw an anti-smoking ad on TV, I got a genuine urge for a cigarette.
A few times I gave in and went across the road to buy some. Trouble was then, I couldn't buy anything less than a 20-pack - 10 packs were outlawed 20 odd years ago, so I ended up smoking the entire pack before "quitting again".

Made me wonder if the tobacco companies had input in to the TV ads.

Re:Pulling An All Nighter On Caffeine & Nicoti (1)

jblues (1703158) | about a year ago | (#44793759)

Congrats for finally doing it.

Re:Pulling An All Nighter On Caffeine & Nicoti (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about a year ago | (#44793949)

Cigarettes and coffee is also known as the supermodel diet.

The cigarettes act as an appetite suppressant and the coffee as a stimulant.
No need for food... unless you want to live a long and healthy life that is.

Swedish SNUS (1)

Jonah Hex (651948) | about a year ago | (#44793389)

I quit using Swedish SNUS [wikipedia.org] which broke the oral fixation/habit of puffing on a smoke while providing the nicotine my body craved. I tapered off using Swedish SNUS within six months, and while I still have cravings occasionally I haven't started smoking again. Please note I didn't use the American versions of SNUS, I ordered real "Swedish" brands that are imported. - HEX

Re:Swedish SNUS (2)

dbIII (701233) | about a year ago | (#44793925)

For a moment there I thought you were writing about a oral fixation with Swedish Nuns, and I was about to say I've seen that movie too :)

Personal Responsibility!!1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793393)

<LIBERTARIAN>

Smokers are lazy. If they wanted to quit, they would just quit. Instead, they are blaming the tobacco companies and everyone else for their laziness, and using crutches like nicotine patches and e-cigarettes. Why can't they take some personal responsibility and just not smoke another cigarette?

</LIBERTARIAN>

Re:Personal Responsibility!!1 (1)

manu0601 (2221348) | about a year ago | (#44793419)

It seems you failed to grasp the notion of addiction.

Re:Personal Responsibility!!1 (2)

iggymanz (596061) | about a year ago | (#44793447)

bullshit, a real libertarian would say if someone wants to use something less dangerous to themselves and others to get their nicotine, let them pay for it, let companies sell it

Re:Personal Responsibility!!1 (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year ago | (#44793875)

How does the libertarian who doesn't want second hand nicotine react?

Re:Personal Responsibility!!1 (1)

0123456 (636235) | about a year ago | (#44793893)

How does the libertarian who doesn't want second hand nicotine react?

Ask people not to smoke on his property?

Re:Personal Responsibility!!1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793967)

What if it's not his property? What if it's a public place? He just gets some sort of smug rant about "Anti-smokers fettering my freedoms!!111!!1" and who cares about the freedoms of everyone besides the prick with the cigarette.

Re:Personal Responsibility!!1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793947)

Funny, but that's actually an interesting question...how will the anti-smoking crowd drum up support for demonizing second hand nicotine exposure? With tobacco it's pretty obvious but with evaporated e-liquid it's practically unmeasurable.

Of course that won't stop the Jenny McCarthy and cell-phones-cause-brain-cancer types from making a federal case out of it (probably literally).

Straw Man (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793989)

how will the anti-smoking crowd drum up support for demonizing second hand nicotine exposure? ... with evaporated e-liquid it's practically unmeasurable.

If there's no exposure, why would they? You're just putting up a straw man to smugly and arrogantly knock down, and give yourself a masturbatory pat on the back. Congratulations!

I guess this is a good thing, but... (0)

kauaidiver (779239) | about a year ago | (#44793401)

I used the patch off an on, left one on overnight - don't do that btw :) If the goal is to quit smoking regular cigarettes and all the ancillary issues of having something on fire near your face, it works.

But...if the end goal is to stop nicotine addiction ECigs is *not* the solution.

Re:I guess this is a good thing, but... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793465)

I quit once for a year and a half about two years ago. My doctor and the smoking clinic nurse both told me specifically to leave the patch on. The instructions themselves say it's a 24 hr patch. The idea being that having a tricle of nicotine all night avoids that serious craving for a morning smoke (which had always been one of the hardest smokes to give up for me) It took 2 months roughly of progressive patches augmented by gum, but it was the easiest quit attempt I'd ever made. My cigarette cravings never got worse than say the desire to see a M*A*S*H re-run. For unrelated reasons, I started up again 3 months ago and am now on stage 3 of the patch and gum regime once more.

Re:I guess this is a good thing, but... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793495)

I've replaced my cigarrette addiction with alcoholism, it's been going great - from what I can remember.

I'm OK with e-cigs (0)

nospam007 (722110) | about a year ago | (#44793415)

If, like the patches, I'll never see or smell one.

Re:I'm OK with e-cigs (1)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44793517)

All the studies on second hand effects I've read up on so far say there are none. I remember one that even said it would be safe around infants. As far as the smell, my vanilla blend has received second hand reviews from "indifferent" to "kind of nice smelling". Would you be ok with a bit of musty vanilla wafting by briefly (dissipates fast, no lingering nastiness)? How is it any different then from that old woman with the gallon of perfume?
I don't understand you objection to seeing them. I have to see all kinds of things I'm not a big fan of in public.

Re:I'm OK with e-cigs (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year ago | (#44793769)

What studies? Something funded by the e-cig industry? By the tobacco companies looking to sell a new addictive product?

Big tobacco fought tooth and nail against the idea that second hand smoke is harmful. We already know nicotine is a addictive and has some negative health effects (birth defects).

Sorry, but I certainly don't want this crap in my lungs. There needs to be controls on where it can be used.

Re:I'm OK with e-cigs (3, Informative)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44794031)

Good thing you don't get any second hand smoke from ecigs.

Conclusions [informahealthcare.com] : For all byproducts measured, electronic cigarettes produce very small exposures relative to tobacco cigarettes. The study indicates no apparent risk to human health from e-cigarette emissions based on the compounds analyzed.

It's easy to find a bunch of "what if" that says it's harmful second hand. People that bother to test find levels so low (if at all) that it's not a problem.

I'll agree to your controls. They can't be used where scientific evidence shows they will harm others. Better get used to the smell.

“For more than 25 years Smokefree Pennsylvania has been advocating indoor smoking bans. Based on the results of this study I see no reason for e-cigarettes to be included in smoking bans.” - Bill Godshall of Smokefree Pennsylvania.

“Most vapers believe e-cigarette vapor is not harmful to those around them, but it is reassuring to finally have scientific evidence confirming those beliefs.”- Spike Babaian, President of National Vapers Club

This is the first study to cover such a wide range of toxins, however previous studies, which have evaluated a smaller number of toxins, have shown similar results.

“The results of this study confirm the findings of my last 4 years of research. E-cigarettes pose no discernible risk to public health." - Dr. Murray Laugesen - Public Health Medicine Specialist, Health New Zealand

source [onlineprnews.com]

Patches are a scam (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793421)

source [telegraph.co.uk] .
I can't find a source for it, but I also recall reading that they "proved" the patches work, by giving the placebo-group (or whatever you science-people call it), not drug-free fake patches, but patches with a tiny amount of nicotine in them.
Usually, physical nicotine withdrawal symptoms are over in 5 days. However when supplying the placebo-group with a tiny amount, the withdrawal gets prolonged to...well...until you stop the patches + 5 days.
Yes, how very clever, giving placebo's that contain the very drug you're testing on the other group!
It's just yet another god damn big pharma lie.

If you want to quit, you quit. Addiction is about being dependent. If you don't want to be addicted, you need to stop being dependant on these substances and start taking responsibility for your own life, instead of making yourself feel a victim of whatever drug (food/prostitute/whatever) you use. Replacing tobacco with nicotine patches or e-cigarettes, reinforces the idea in your head, that you cannot do it alone. Which is a lie that belongs to the addiction pattern, which you then are propagating.
These are all illusions, trying to survive in your person, out of fear of responsibility.

Creative Definitions (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793459)

Too often I've seen people claim to have "quit smoking" when they switched to e-cigs. Which is like saying you've stopped murdering people with knives and have started using clubs.

Re:Creative Definitions (3, Funny)

dotgain (630123) | about a year ago | (#44793575)

Too often I've seen people claim to have "quit using terrible analogies", which is like saying stopped driving a Ferrari and started eating porridge for breakfast.

Re:Creative Definitions (1)

JohnG (93975) | about a year ago | (#44793665)

Well, there's no smoke in an electronic cigarette. So who is using the "creative definition," the people saying they aren't smoking or you?

Re:Creative Definitions (1)

ewieling (90662) | about a year ago | (#44793799)

People who switch to e-cigs *have* quit smoking if you define smoking as inhaling the toxic brew of chemicals, tar, carbon monoxide, and nicotine resulting from burning tobacco leaves. They have not quit nicotine, of course, but that is a different issue. The vapor from e-cigs should be thought as steam containing nicotine. I have gone from about 1.5 packs of cigarettes a day to about 1.5 packs of cigarettes per week by using e-cigs to feed my nicotine addiction. E-cigs can be significantly cheaper than smoking tobacco, especially in places with high tobacco taxes.

in USA FDA is butting in (1)

iggymanz (596061) | about a year ago | (#44793461)

The FDA is saying they will take control of e-cigarettes, one reason being that many under 18 are using them. Never mind that even 40+ years ago 12 year olds who wanted to smoke found ways of getting their illegal cigarettes

Re:in USA FDA is butting in (1)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44793741)

While I'm not looking forward to the regulation, I wouldn't object if they put an age restriction on it and made sure the liquid was made properly. Right now, any one can sell you a bottle of goo and you have to hope that it contains what they say it does. It's not a huge problem, there are plenty of reputable companies out there. If you want, you can still buy the raw ingredients (that are what they say they are) and mix your own. I'm sure the kids will still find a way, but I happen to know that black market substances are easier for minors to get than white market ones.

Not Intended for Quitting (4, Interesting)

skine (1524819) | about a year ago | (#44793467)

As someone who got into e-cigs relatively early (2009) and still vapes, it's important to note that they are NOT really meant for quitting. Sure, it's possible to quit using them, but they are more intended to be a replacement device. It's only quitting in the sense that you're not using traditional cigarettes anymore.

Why are they catching on?

1. They are (likely to be) healthier. Sure, some will say that e-cigs contain ingredients present in anti-freeze. These same ingredients, though, are also found in rescue inhalers, fog machines, and Twinkies. Mostly, though, they don't contain all of the tar and poisonous substances we all know are present in other cigarettes.

2. You don't smell like burnt paper, and don't make you smell like burnt paper for the rest of the day. Pretty self-explanatory.

3. (Or 2a) You can vape indoors, and stealth-vape. Smoking outdoors is fine eight months of the year here in Upstate NY. The other four months - and all of the days it's raining - having to go outdoors sucks. Not only in homes and apartments, but at bars. Also, if I'm in a place where I don't want people to know I vape, I can just go into the bathroom or a toilet stall, and nobody is the wiser. Not the same for a cigarette.

4. Much easier to maintain a constant buzz. I recently had the charger I've had since the start decide to stop working, so I switched back to traditional cigarettes. I absolutely hated that I felt like hell or got enough of a buzz to make my legs weak.

Re:Not Intended for Quitting (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793809)

2. You don't smell like burnt paper, and don't make you smell like burnt paper for the rest of the day. Pretty self-explanatory.

Smokers don't smell like burnt paper. Burnt paper is actually rather pleasant compared to what smokers smell like. Especially at the end of a long day. That's one of the problems with smokers, they don't realize how bad they smell because they're supressing their sense of smell. Then they get mad at people who can't stand the disgusting smell.

I completely agree that all smokers should, if they can, switch to the e-cigarettes and that they shouldn't have any restrcitions on them that tobacco products don't have. It doesn't matter if they don't lead to quitting, they're so much better for the smokers and the people around them. Not to mention the decrease in house fires and forest fires.

The problem with these (1)

metrix007 (200091) | about a year ago | (#44793475)

is that everyone insists they are 100% healthy, and have none of the problems of traditional cigarettes.

Just because they don't share the same issues as cigarettes doesn't mean they are completely healthy. We need to wait until studies are done.

Given that studies have shown risk associated with nicotine patches and harmful chemicals have been found in ecigs, I think I'll wait.

Also, screw all the people who exhale in public places because they think it's acceptable to bother people with vapor because it isn't smoke.

Re:The problem with these (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793553)

> Given that studies have shown risk associated with nicotine patches and harmful chemicals have been found in ecigs, I think I'll wait.

As opposed to the healthy alternative that normal cigs provide?

Your comment is ridiculous, and can only be taken as spin to convince yourself not to quit.

Re:The problem with these (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793605)

The actual issue, is that it's still so difficult to get liquid THC!

Re:The problem with these (2)

R3d M3rcury (871886) | about a year ago | (#44793761)

I'm not so sure about that.

So I'm in a bar this morning to watch some football (Out here in LA, football starts at 10:00AM). Since it's my first time here, I ask the bartender where I should go to smoke--or, more precisely, should I go out onto the patio. She asks if I'm smoking e-cigarettes and I say no. She says the patio is fine. I asked her about e-cigarettes, as there are a few signs around saying that there will be no smoking e-cigarettes on the site.

Well, according to her, there were people bringing in THC e-cigarettes. It was prevalent enough that they had to ban it--I assume one of those lawsuit-type things.

Re:The problem with these (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793643)

Also, screw all the people who exhale in public places

Damn them and their CO2 and garlic and onion breath. That's why I can never leave the basement.

Re:The problem with these (1)

jblues (1703158) | about a year ago | (#44793773)

I reckon the best study would just be to let them compete. . . and see what happens. Chances are they will be less harmful than cigs.

Re:The problem with these (1)

RussR42 (779993) | about a year ago | (#44793789)

As far as anyone can tell (studies have been done) they are damn near 100% safe for others. It's not your problem if they still cause some harm to the user. As far as bothering other people, how many other smells are we going to ban? What if I don't like your BO? Further, most ecig users move away from tobacco flavors pretty fast. Mine smells of a sort of musty sweet vanilla. Sorry if nice smells bother you. Stick it up your ass.

Id say better. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793615)

With an e-cig you also get something to hold in your hand to mimic the cigarette smoking behavior as well as the ritual holding. When I quit smoking I missed having the actual cigarette to hold and smoke when I was driving. My hands had become accustomed to holding the cigarette and such which was part of the smoking ritual for me.

Plus you can use it as little or much as you need to. A patch you have to take on and off and so on. A ecig you just pull it out of your pocket, hit it and put it back in your pocket.

Totally Disagree (5, Interesting)

gumper23 (700105) | about a year ago | (#44793635)

E-Cigarettes aren't "as good as" the patch - they are much, much better. I smoked 1-2 packs a day for 28 years and was finally able to quit due to e-cigs. My lungs sound better, I feel better, and I don't stink anymore.

The patch left me with a rash on my arm.

Re:Totally Disagree (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793943)

E-Cigarettes aren't "as good as" the patch - they are much, much better. I smoked 1-2 packs a day for 28 years and was finally able to quit due to e-cigs. My lungs sound better, I feel better, and I don't stink anymore.

The patch left me with a rash on my arm.

I totally agree, I tried to quit using the patch several times, but never succeeded. I started vaping about 4 weeks ago and I haven't had a cigarette since.

Not harmful? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793675)

Warning for California Residents: This product contains nicotine, a chemical known to the State of California to cause birth defects or other reproductive harm.

Only residents in California experience birth defects or reproductive harm.. so everyone else is safe. Ty.

This is also a great way to really open up the child smoking market. What? the smoke won't give you cancer? awesome, here timmy try some. Thanks dad!

It's not the "tobacco industry" any more (1)

Dan B. (20610) | about a year ago | (#44793733)

Even the big players no longer identify themselves as being in the "tobacco Industry".
They are now in the "Nicotine Delivery" business, one of the only non-controlled addictive drugs sold over the counter to anyone (of age) who wants it.

USB charging (2)

jfdavis668 (1414919) | about a year ago | (#44793755)

I just find it strange when people recharge them in the USB port of their laptop.

My Experience (3, Interesting)

Teknikal69 (1769274) | about a year ago | (#44793821)

Truthful experience here I bought an ecig about 3 years ago to try and get a nicotine fix when my Workplace put a stop to smokebreaks I really didn't expect it to work at all but I've never smoked a single cigarette since that day I even have a full unopened packet in a drawer.

It wasn't really my intention to stop smoking altogether I just found I didn't need to anymore.

Probably took about 3 or 4 months until I realised I could taste and smell better, they really do work although I think a lot depends on the quality of the liquid used.

I'd go as far to say that they have almost certainly extended my life and I couldn't have stopped without one.

Some vaporizers okay; others not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44793951)

That's one of the issues, at least. We've determined that vaporizing and inhaling alcohol, while certainly better for the body than imbibing it, according to every study done on the subject, ever, is a behavior that will not be tolerated: you must drink your alcohol, and take all the ills that come with that. Why, then, should it be okay for smokers to get their fix guilt-free? If I have to risk cirrhosis, then they should have to risk lung cancer, dammit.

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