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China Allows Most Online Criticism But Cracks Down On Mobilization and Gossip

samzenpus posted about 7 months ago | from the sticks-and-stones dept.

China 94

hackingbear writes "Harvard sociologist Gary King has just completed two studies that peer into the Chinese censorship machine — including a field experiment within China that was conducted with extraordinary secrecy. Together, the studies refute popular intuitions about what Chinese censors are after. He found that the censors actually permit 'vitriolic criticism' of China's leaders and governmental policies but the censors crack down heavily on any move to get people physically mobilized to act on such criticism. In a related development, China's top court issued a ruling on Monday to threaten a 3-year sentence for people posting online rumors viewed by 5,000 internet users or reposted more than 500 times. Though, in the same ruling, the court also clarified that a person reposting false rumor should not be punished if he or she does not clearly know the information is false, even if real harm is done. "

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94 comments

I want one (4, Funny)

Megahard (1053072) | about 7 months ago | (#44802271)

That is, a censor that filters out gossip and any request for me to physically move.

Re:I want one (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802305)

"...any request for me to physically move."

In other news, fat lazy welfare parasites are exploding across China.....

Re:I want one (4, Insightful)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 7 months ago | (#44802371)

...censors actually permit 'vitriolic criticism' of China's leaders and governmental policies but the censors crack down heavily on any move to get people physically mobilized to act on such criticism.

So. Am I to conclude from this observation that China has enacted the same essential policy [sourcewatch.org] as the United States of America?

The "Big Brother" societies have discovered that a "Free Press" can be managed to function as bread and circuses once did. This is the dictum: "You are free to say whatever you like, provided that you act withing the proscribed boundary."

Now is the time to sing "Barret Brown's Body".

Re:I want one (2)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 7 months ago | (#44802703)

It sounds like they've realized that letting 'slacktivists' do ineffectual things may actually have less overall impact on social order than trying to preserve the illusion of perfect order. A reasonable conclusion, given how frequently people get mad as hell and rant about it on the internet a bit, feel as though they've done something, and then go back to their day.

Re:I want one (0)

BD (2930827) | about 7 months ago | (#44804755)

Oh, I'm sure they've got armies of paid shills operating dozens of sock puppets apiece, too.

Re:I want one (2)

davydagger (2566757) | about 7 months ago | (#44805035)

yeah, but how is that diffrent than the to-hire PR mercs we have in the states.

except they work for money, not national loyality.

Re:I want one (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44803283)

So. Am I to conclude from this observation that China has enacted the same essential policy as the United States of America?

No, not quite. In the US you can organize, march, and otherwise engage in activism, but you still have to do it within the law. China, on the other hand, clamps down on people that attempt to organize, march, or otherwise engage in activism. And as noted in the story, they are instituting a 3-year sentence for people posting "online rumors." That makes for quite a difference.

Who do you think is turning Mother Jones and various other leftist periodicals into members of a "Free Press?" Would that be their "corporate overlords?"

Barret Browns Body? Thanks, but I'll stick with John Brown's Body* [youtube.com] now largely supplanted by the Battle Hymn of The Republic [youtube.com] .

*Sung by singer and activist Pete Seeger [wikipedia.org] .

Re:I want one (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#44803603)

China, on the other hand, clamps down on people that attempt to organize, march, or otherwise engage in activism.

You're trolling again [theguardian.com] ...

In case you don't want to read the link:

In August 2011 a protest in the north-eastern city Dalian led local authorities to announce that they were would relocate a polluting PX plant. The following summer, the coastal city Qidong scrapped a pipeline plan after about a thousand protesters stormed government offices and overturned cars.

Re:I want one (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44804441)

I think you missed something:

Chinese protest at planned chemical plant over pollution fears [theguardian.com]

A similar protest earlier this month in Chengdu, the capital of adjacent Sichuan province, was suppressed by police.

Sometimes the party is willing, but the police are weak.

On the other hand, the Chinese government has been liberalizing in various aspects. I think this incident was quite remarkable:

Chinese Villagers Under Siege Mourn Man Who Died [foxnews.com]

Of course, then there are these two items:
China's Leader Embraces Mao as He Tightens Grip on Country [wsj.com]
China Takes Aim at Western Ideas [nytimes.com]

I think I now have enough hands to be an economist.

Re:I want one (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 7 months ago | (#44812191)

"Within the law"

The essential point of agreement between US and PRC. The US has enforced "Free Speech Zones" as law, in contravention of the law.

The US position is essentially: "Remain ineffective and largely unnoticeable, or its time for zip-ties and truncheons".

Re:I want one (1)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | about 7 months ago | (#44807573)

Surveillance is very different from censorship. The occupy movement was allowed extreme publicity in all major press.

Re:I want one (1)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 7 months ago | (#44812327)

Just surveillance? My dear friend. You live in a security state. Surveillance is something that you seem to see as nearly harmless, and possibly an end in itself.

Follow the trail from Anon to Occupy. Why is Barrett Brown in Jail, under gag order - where does this intersect with Snowden - and why is Michael Hastings dead?

Hastings has been posthumously smeared several times, by "Major Press" - with a deliberate misrepresentation of the Coroner's forensic report on his death.

http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/08/07/connections-between-michael-hastings-edward-snowden-and-barrett-brown-the-war-with-the-security-state/ [whowhatwhy.com]

Re:I want one (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802375)

China should look at the impact groups like the Tea Party and Occupy Wall Street had, and just not do censorship because it is not necessary.

Exactly what effect do mass protests even have?

They can be cleared out with firehoses and a bunch of other techniques. The only reason the Civil Rights protests succeeded while the counterprotests are forgotten didn't is that the Civil Rights protests had glowing mass media coverage. Presumably China has control over its mass media.

Re:I want one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802381)

You think the USA doesn't have control over its mass media?

Re:I want one (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802571)

In Soviet Russia the government controls the media. In Capitalist America the companies that control the media have their interests aligned with those of other companies and together they control the government and public opinion. No In Soviet Russia joke, sorry.
The second system is superior since in the first the manipulation is obvious, in the latter people can pretend it isn't.

Re:I want one (2)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#44804383)

Who was that Russian that told an American *the only difference between you and us is that you believe your propaganda*?

Re:I want one (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44804525)

There is a reason for the disparity. During the Cold War, the US had achieved what the Soviet's promised. The book Mig Pilot: The Final Escape of Lt. Belenko [amazon.com] tells the story of a famous incident during the Cold War in which a Soviet fighter pilot, a privileged person in Soviet society, defected with his MIG-25. It is fascinating to see the US at the time (mid 1970s) through the eyes of this Soviet pilot. Below is a link to an excerpt from the book.

VIKTOR BELENKO'S VISIT TO THE SHOPPING CENTER [uen.org] --

Re:I want one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44803293)

It doesn't need to.

Re:I want one (1)

davydagger (2566757) | about 7 months ago | (#44805045)

the tea party and occupy wall street both suffered heavy amounts of arrest and harassment and intimidation by the police, along with infiltration, provocateurs, and other methods of sabotage of all stripes.

Re:I want one (1)

daem0n1x (748565) | about 7 months ago | (#44806121)

The Tea Party? Arrests? Really? I read about them being spied on, but never heard of arrests. Why would your government want to piss off the billionaires behind the movement, the ones that basically rule the USA?

I got plenty of news about infiltrations and police brutality against OWS, however. Not in the mass media, of course. Here on the other side of the Atlantic, our media is as much as corrupt as yours. They pretended OWS never existed or, at most, was just a gang of anarchists doing vandalism.

Re:I want one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824395)

The Koch Bros. notwithstanding, the Tea Party represents a stance that is actually quite a threat to even the old guard conservative power structure. While naturally, the more astroturfed elements weren't harassed (that's kind of the point...they used the carrot instead of the stick in these areas), there were plenty among the Tea Party specifically targeted by the IRS for no reason other than involvement with the Tea Party.

Sometimes they squash dissent, sometimes they infiltrate and appropriate it to turn a profit. At the end of the day, the agenda of the oligarchs is furthered either way, while the masses are kept relatively docile and under control.

In any case, if we could stop pretending that our tension with China has to do with human rights rather than the simple matter of allocating scarce resources to a constantly growing global population (and, naturally, consolidation of power by which to do that allocation), I for one would appreciate it. We're both superpowers with networks of fairly powerful allies, who talks about human rights where it suits our interests and trample them for the same reasons. Any means necessary is the motto of anyone who actually wants to remain competitive in this game...

Re:I want one (1)

f3rret (1776822) | about 7 months ago | (#44806465)

Exactly what effect do mass protests even have?

"Mass" has a whole different meaning when you're talking about china, there's a lot of chinese people.

Re:I want one (1)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | about 7 months ago | (#44807597)

Occupy may have done nothing, but the tea party got a lot of members of congress elected.

Re:I want one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44811511)

Indeed, you must have missed the part where it was mentioned that the Tea Party is funded by billionaires and hedge funds. With unlimited pockets you can get anyone elected.

Re:I want one (-1, Flamebait)

abbiege (3057431) | about 7 months ago | (#44806277)

my best friends brother got a nearly new red Mitsubishi Eclipse Convertible only from working parttime off a macbook air... .......:> www.jobs60.com

Re:I want one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44826967)

I would love to see the algorithms they use to detect trolls and other emo pacivists.

Re:I want one (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44916593)

Flaking mill,The market share of our flaking mill [chinagaochang.com] ranks first in China

Like America! (3, Interesting)

Beardydog (716221) | about 7 months ago | (#44802317)

So, it's just like America, where you can say whatever you want about politics, but if three people are holding protest signs on the side of the road, the FBI will try to wiretap and infiltrate them.

Re:Like America! (2)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44802403)

I think you are treating the Chinese government unfairly. They worked hard to be distinct, and you're making fake claims about there being a knockoff.

Let the Chinese government have it's moment in the sun.

Re:Like America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44803379)

Codeword 'Rising Sun' detected, scramble all jets.

Re:Like America! (3, Funny)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about 7 months ago | (#44802433)

No, in the U.S. we just use bread and circuses to make the citizens not want to protest too much.

BTW, did anyone hear about the new iPhone that's coming out this week?

Re:Like America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44803447)

Slashdot is your circus.

Re:Like America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824417)

I hear iPhones can't run Ingress, and thus can't be used to help facilitate the replacement of these problematic human systems of control by extradimensional entities...

Re:Like America! (4, Insightful)

mi (197448) | about 7 months ago | (#44802585)

if three people are holding protest signs on the side of the road, the FBI will try to wiretap and infiltrate them.

The big difference here is, these three hypothetical people will not be facing a three-year sentence.

You may equate an FBI investigation with actual imprisonment all you want, but in practice there is some difference.

Re:Like America! (1)

coma_bug (830669) | about 7 months ago | (#44802801)

The big difference here is, these three hypothetical people will not be facing a three-year sentence.

how about twenty years? [commondreams.org]

Re:Like America! (1)

mi (197448) | about 7 months ago | (#44803005)

From your link:

In the dark, the three activists cut through a boundary fence which had signs stating “No Trespassing.”

Not quite "simply holding signs", were they?

Re:Like America! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44804533)

In practice mi (197448) is an idiot.

Re:Like America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44804991)

A fabulous insight to the irritation of some! ;)

Keep it up!!

Re:Like America! (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44803047)

Followed and read your link [commondreams.org] . What I found was not people standing by the side of the road with a sign. They violated the security of a nuclear weapons facility by cutting through three fences and engaging in vandalism which resulted in a shutdown of the facility.

In the early morning hours of Saturday, July 28, 2012, long-time peace activists Sr. Megan Rice, 82, Greg Boertje-Obed, 57, and Michael Walli, 63, cut through the chain link fence surrounding the Oak Ridge Y-12 nuclear weapons production facility and trespassed onto the property. Y-12, called the Fort Knox of the nuclear weapons industry, stores hundreds of metric tons of highly enriched uranium and works on every single one of the thousands of nuclear weapons maintained by the U.S....

In the dark, the three activists cut through a boundary fence which had signs stating “No Trespassing.” The signs indicate that unauthorized entry, a misdemeanor, is punishable by up to 1 year in prison and a $100,000 fine. ...

On Wednesday August 1, all nuclear operations at Y-12 were ordered to be put on hold in order for the plant to focus on security.

Re:Like America! (1)

erikkemperman (252014) | about 7 months ago | (#44803235)

Wait.. An 82 year old broke into a nuclear weapons manufacturing reactor site?

Oh, as they say, shit.

And here I thought my granny was tough.

Guess you were right all along, gotta keep an eye on everyone. Hardcore peacenik grannies most of all.

Re:Like America! (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44803549)

I think it's reasonable to keep an eye on everyone planning to break into nuclear weapons facilities. If you disagree I'd be interested to hear why.

Suppose granny and her two friends were only the first wave, just to check if the way was clear? It is entirely possible that granny and friends wouldn't know they were being used. Or perhaps they are being used as "human shields," a tactic that is increasingly popular with various groups these days. Lots of nasty possibilities.

Algerian bloodbath: 23 hostages killed, death toll continues to rise [humanevents.com]

The Algerian government says it had to take action because the terrorists were going to blow up the facility and execute the hostages, many of whom were strapped to explosives. Others were taken as human shields by terrorists who were either fleeing or re-locating within the facility (depending on whose account you believe) when they came under fire from Algerian helicopters.

David Headley Said to Have Helped Terrorists Target Nuclear Plant [go.com]

Re:Like America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44803691)

But they weren't. You can't convict someone on "could-haves" and "might-have-beens" and completely related events elsewhere.

Re:Like America! (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44803779)

You aren't very clear on your objection. The trio in the referenced link did break in, so that isn't a question. It could have been far worse than it was if there had been more people behind them. Who is to say there won't be next time? Security of nuclear weapons and components isn't something to play at.

Re:Like America! (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 7 months ago | (#44804547)

Security of nuclear weapons and components isn't something to play at.

Which is why those operating that facility should be shamed. Certainly dismissal is in order, and perhaps there is reason for charges. When an 82 year old nun infiltrates a nuclear weapons facility, you know there's a security problem. They should probably thank Sister Megan and her two whipper snapper accomplices for pointing out such a serious lack of security.

This whole thing would be incredibly comical if it wasn't for the fact that Sister Megan and here two "accomplices" are facing sentences of up to 35 years. The government has made itself a laughing stock and an object of ridicule. By defending their actions in any way, you've done the same to yourself.

Re:Like America! (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44804811)

So you're talking out of both sides of your mouth again. Pick a side - it is either a serious incident and both the security forces and intruders should be punished, or it was a silly screw up and slaps on the hand for all around. You want to have to both ways.

Your use of scare quotes is completely inappropriate when applied to accomplices. That is exactly what they were, although I suppose co-conspirators would do just as well. I'm sure you'll object for some reason.

I'm reasonably certain that both the government and I will survive being ridiculed by you despite your self-perceived moral authority. I expect you'll get in a few good hits though, you do seem quite skilled at flinging mud at the opportune time. And the mud you throw does seem to often please the crowd. What greater thing is there in life?

Re:Like America! (1)

turtledawn (149719) | about 7 months ago | (#44804875)

I believe Babcox and Wilcox (the security contractor at Y-12) did in fact have their contract terminated and were replaced. I do not know who the replacement is.

Re:Like America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44806197)

And the government and its contractors had been playing at security. They fucked up big time. This hypothetical "next time" is now less likely to happen - thanks to the protesters. Of course the facility was shut down - It was shown to be insecure. That was a good thing.

Re:Like America! (1)

jschrod (172610) | about 7 months ago | (#44804223)

People like you make me realize that the current transformation of the USA into a fascist police state is actually supported by many of its inhabitants.

Very scary, from this side of the pond.

*PLONK*

Re:Like America! (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44804283)

That tells me you probably understand neither the USA nor fascist police states.

It would also seem to imply that you consider the security of nuclear materials to be something to play at. Do you take the same stand with them in your land?

Re:Like America! (1)

Kozar_The_Malignant (738483) | about 7 months ago | (#44802925)

if three people are holding protest signs on the side of the road, the FBI will try to wiretap and infiltrate them.

The big difference here is, these three hypothetical people will not be facing a three-year sentence.

"If two boys get together and steal a candy bar, that is a misdemeanor and a serious matter. If three boys get together and plot to steal a candy bar, but don't do it, that is a conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor, which is a felony crime and a far more serious matter." - Apocryphal often attributed to Adlai Stevenson.

Re:Like America! (1)

mi (197448) | about 7 months ago | (#44803041)

that is a conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor, which is a felony crime

No, it is not [cornell.edu] .

Re:Like America! (1)

Kozar_The_Malignant (738483) | about 7 months ago | (#44805171)

I am glad it has been amended. Certainly it was an injustice. I am old enough to remember when it was true, though not nearly as old as Stevenson.

Re:Like America! (1)

mi (197448) | about 7 months ago | (#44811203)

I am glad it has been amended. Certainly it was an injustice.

I wouldn't say, it is necessarily an injustice in all cases. A small crime committed on an impulse — see candy, see cashier looking the other way — is less serious, than a cold-blooded conspiracy. Because whereas the impulse might still have the scruples not realize, given time, he should not do it, with the conspirators there is no such doubt.

But were discussing, what is and what is not legal in US vs. China — not what the punishment is, for the things that are illegal.

Re:Like America! (1)

erikkemperman (252014) | about 7 months ago | (#44803289)

You're right of course, there are still differences. But from the outside (I'm not in the US or China) it looks like the gap is closing fast. ALEC would like to see environmentalists with video cameras charged with terrorism, for instance. You're only one party away from a one-party state -- if we can even count dems and reps to be significantly distinct..

"Two party" America (1)

mi (197448) | about 7 months ago | (#44803375)

You're only one party away from a one-party state -- if we can even count dems and reps to be significantly distinct...

This is a mistake many — Americans and foreigners alike — make about America's political system. True, we only have two major parties, but that's because we use them completely differently: we vote for persons, not for parties.

Whereas in most (all?) Democracies world-wide the voters pick parties on their ballots, Americans pick actual people. Party-affiliation in the US is neither official, nor binding. There is nothing about "parties" in the Constitution or Federal voting law (and very little in State laws). Politicians can and have changed their party affiliation. A party is as strong as the number of elected officials, who choose to affiliate with it.

On contrast, in other countries people vote for parties — and the parties then assign legislative seats (and other perks) in proportion to their share of the vote.

Not saying, which system is "better", just pointing out the huge difference. The difference, which might explain, why the US only has two — because they are both very diverse and would've split up, had the voting rules been different...

Re:"Two party" America (1)

jschrod (172610) | about 7 months ago | (#44804289)

If that's the case, why do all those personally voted people in US congress vehemently clamp to their party line? Or did you see a Rep lately that didn't want to block anything that's in front of him/her? How about those "`I will rather risk polical death than plug tax evasion schemes' promises" that they signed?

Being from Europe (Germany), I don't buy your argument. The news and the reported facts about congress member behavior tell different.

And your argument about the reason of your two-party system, well -- [citation neeeded]. The canonical explanation is that your voters know that a vote for any other party is lost, owing to the winner-takes-it-all voting system. Quite different to our system, for example, that handles 4-6 political parties in parlament quite stable, thank you. Why do you think that canoncial explanation doesn't hold water?

Re:"Two party" America (1)

mi (197448) | about 7 months ago | (#44811389)

If that's the case, why do all those personally voted people in US congress vehemently clamp to their party line?

Sometimes they do so, and some times — on the issues, on which they don't agree with their chosen Party. — they do not. Whether it is legalizing the illegal immigrants currently in the US, or attacking Syria, a number of lawmakers vote against their Party's majority. There is even a term for it: "crossing the party line".

And your argument about the reason of your two-party system, well -- [citation neeeded].

What citation? The ballots do list people in the US (their party-affiliation in parentheses), not parties.

Quite different to our system, for example, that handles 4-6 political parties in parlament quite stable, thank you.

Sorry, I will not be sucked into debating, which system is "better". We like ours, thank you very much, and have used it for over 200 years uninterrupted. There even used to be a third major party — the Whigs [wikipedia.org] (scoring two Presidents, no less). Maybe, you can be pacified in your unprovoked anger, if I compare American parties with German coalitions?

Re:"Two party" America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44806267)

It does seem to me that most Americans do actually just pick the parties on the ballot paper, that means in most cases it is largely an irrelevance that they are technically voting for the person, this isn't a uniquely American trait, it is that most people pick their "team" to support and stick with them, and I do think the party political system (especially in America, but not exclusively) doesn't promote a healthy democracy, to get people to consider the candidates we need to get rid of the "teams" people vote for.

And in the UK at least, we also also vote for the person (excepting European elections where MEPs are elected), and we have three major political parties (and many smaller ones), I'm sure this setup isn't as unique as you seem to think it is.

Re:Like America! (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#44803495)

You should probably use more salt [phrases.org.uk] when you swallow commentary on Slashdot. There are some questions that the two parties will largely agree on based on broad social consensus*, but contrary to many reports on Slashdot, they tend to pursue different goals in many policy areas.

You may find some insights by reading here [nationalreview.com] from time to time.

* Allowing the country to be invaded is bad. Social welfare programs should continue to exist.

Re:Like America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44803897)

Prove it...

How about you open up a school with three students and talk about defeating lie detectors?

Re:Like America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44803921)

Depends on the time i guess. This certainly wasn't true in the 1940's when the smith act was passed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_Act)

Re:Like America! (2)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#44804401)

...in practice there is some difference.

That being the US has a lot more people in prison, and in China the death penalty is mercifully swift.

Re:Like America! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802587)

those three people would be _lucky_ if that's all the govt did.

Re:Like America! (1)

AlphaWoIf_HK (3042365) | about 7 months ago | (#44802601)

Or they'll just be put in free speech zones, or suppressed if they didn't beg the government (protest permits) to protest beforehand (but only if the protestors are numerous).

Re:Like America! (1)

steelfood (895457) | about 7 months ago | (#44803181)

That's assuming they don't get arrested first for failing to apply for and receive a permit to protest.

The bad thing is that the FBI's actually been doing this since its inception. They have a profile on everybody who's anybody.

The good thing is that the masses are actually starting to realize this. And they're not liking how deep the rabbit hole goes.

So they are like america (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802321)

post 2001

Re:So they are like america (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802579)

Don't flatter yourself. Murrica's been doing this since Shay's Rebellion.

China Allows Most Online Criticism But Cracks Down (2)

SIR_Taco (467460) | about 7 months ago | (#44802347)

"... But Cracks ..."

Re:China Allows Most Online Criticism But Cracks D (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802549)

nailed it!

Re:China Allows Most Online Criticism But Cracks D (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802595)

Yes, they are sent to jail. It's very subtle but that's the meaning everyone gets.

The title says it all, how we're all soon going to follow them. It's not oppression, censorship or repression of freedom anymore, it's benevolence of the state. Sinking to new lows, both them and the idiots blogging/reporting this.

In Other Words... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802349)

... all the "Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya!" you want, but censor things like Occupy Wall Street [rt.com] . Got it.

"And I'm proud to be an American, where at least I know I'm free."

Going to need a bigger prison... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802355)

So what are they going to do after all the teens and women have been locked up?

Re:Going to need a bigger prison... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44804311)

Who needs a bigger prison, the US or China?

The US has the highest incarceration rates by far (716 per 100K) vs China (170 per 100K using the high-end of the range).

Thats pretty close to the US (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802365)

but instead of filtering out mobilization, we simply pre-arrest acitivists, and harrass the piss out of them, and then deny it.

oh, and instead of little black ubiquitos boxes, our surviallence is subversive, and hidden.

Morpork style (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802391)

...and sadly, there is nothing we can do about this, not even by assembling outside the governor's office on 15 Main Street at 12:15pm when he leaves for a lunch meeting.

China is looking better all the time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802409)

And they don't allow any religious foolishness which gives them a leg up on the United States of Jesus in my book.

In Soviet USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802419)

In Soviet America NSA knows everything. Before you make second post criticizing current regime they will bust your door down.

Re:In Soviet USA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802469)

So, where is that happening? Any proof?

It's all the same... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802509)

So in essence the censorship apparatus of the Chinese is exactly the same as their Western counterparts.

Re:It's all the same... (2)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | about 7 months ago | (#44802725)

So in essence the censorship apparatus of the Chinese is exactly the same as their Western counterparts.

No, because in the West people can 'mobilize' at the ballot box, an option not available in China.

Re:It's all the same... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44802843)

Yes, we have twice as many parties to choose from than the PRC has, this corresponds to about twice as much influence in public policy.

Re:It's all the same... (1)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | about 7 months ago | (#44804327)

this corresponds to about twice as much influence in public policy.

First of all the Grandparent said "Western Counterparts." So sorry to hear you only have two parties to choose from, but that's you. My ballot has at least four...

...and leaving that aside, you've got hundreds of congress(people?) and senators to vote for as well. Why do you think the Tea Party took over the Republican party? Because Tea Partiers organize and vote. You want the 99%ers to take over policy? Get out of your tents, organize, and vote. Take over the primaries, do what you have to to do. Votes buy congress a lot more than cash does.

Re:It's all the same... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824449)

Right, because the Tea Party made no use of a few billion dollars in order to get said politicians into position to be in the running even for the primaries. Do we really still have people calling it a grassroots movement?

Re:It's all the same... (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about 7 months ago | (#44808421)

What happens if China were to split their Communist Party into two, with team colors, and let people vote for one or the other? Then would the score be even?

Hybrid Culture (4, Interesting)

wrackspurt (3028771) | about 7 months ago | (#44802551)

It's interesting to watch China spin a hybrid culture starting from a central planning state like that implemented by Mao and branching out into an economic powerhouse. America started from a clean slate and basically wrote and implemented a new state from the ground up using ideas from people like J.S. Mill and John Locke. China seems to be taking a more tentative and perhaps a more organic approach of melding business enterprise while maintaining a central planning government. It should be interesting to watch the economic imperatives rub shoulders with the rear guard of the politburo over the next couple of decades when a strong middle class evolves.

Re:Hybrid Culture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44803593)

It's interesting to watch China spin a hybrid culture starting from a central planning state like that implemented by Mao and branching out into an economic powerhouse. America started from a clean slate and basically wrote and implemented a new state from the ground up using ideas from people like J.S. Mill and John Locke. China seems to be taking a more tentative and perhaps a more organic approach of melding business enterprise while maintaining a central planning government. It should be interesting to watch the economic imperatives rub shoulders with the rear guard of the politburo over the next couple of decades when a strong middle class evolves.

And we, having observed that the Nazi Germans had to do it with brute force and ran out of bullets, the East Germans (i.e., USSR) failed because they had to do it on paper and ran out of manpower before they ran out of suspects, but the Chinese managed - after Tienanmen Square, in which absolutely nothing happened in 1986 - to stay afloat.

China adopted just enough capitalism to grow the economy just enough to stay in power while waiting for the computers to scale to the point that their surveillance state didn't collapse under the weight of its own bureaucracy. The first generation of the Great Firewall was built with help from Cisco and Yahoo.

And our rulers, having learned from the failures of all the regimes that preceded them, decided to adopt just enough of the Chinese model to guarantee their stability. The DDR was a failed alpha test, the PRC was a successful beta test, and the NSA now has a stable and well-supported turnkey solution.

Re:Hybrid Culture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44803855)

I think it's more interesting how the media (and the governments) spin things to make their country look better.
Meanwhile, if you actually travel to these other places you can live in largely the same way as you do back home.

Re:Hybrid Culture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44805143)

I agree, it is very interesting.

If China does indeed become the next superpower, maybe we'll see people start to notice that capitalism is not the only way to run an effective society.

Seeing the largely institutionalized fear of socialism in the US, this would be a good day. I suppose waiting for the Baby Boomers to die off would be another option, but as a millennial, I've never been known for my patience.

No surprise, known since 170 B.C.E. (1)

ridgecritter (934252) | about 7 months ago | (#44804803)

"...but the censors crack down heavily on any move to get people physically mobilized to act on such criticism."

"Oderint, dum metuant."

or:

"Let them hate, so long as they fear."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Accius [wikipedia.org]

You may say what you will, but you may never actually do anything about it.

Now, we're not ones to go round spreadin' rumors (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 7 months ago | (#44804979)

Why really, we're just not the gossipy kind!
Oh, you'll never hear one of us repeating gossip!
So you'd better be sure and listen close the first time. ..

Really Misleading Sentence (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44805457)

"3-year sentence for people posting online rumors".

Really misleading. The law interpretation actually is 3-year sentence for posting online slander. Slandering is a criminal offense in China, as is the case in most other countries. Of course one can argue that the government can use the law for persecution, but that's an entirely different point.

Gilded cage, anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44805503)

So the Chinese censorship de jure functions pretty much the same as the US censorship functions de facto?

I mean, look at Reddit and Facebook. Plenty of vitriolic criticism and people who think activism means clicking the "like" icon but little actual organized protest.

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