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Microsoft Botches More Patches In Latest Automatic Update

Soulskill posted about 7 months ago | from the we'll-do-it-live dept.

Microsoft 254

snydeq writes "'No sooner did Microsoft release the latest round of Black Tuesday patches than screams of agony began sounding all over the Internet,' writes Woody Leonhard, reporting on verified problems with Microsoft Automatic Updates KB 2817630, KB 2810009, KB 2760411, KB 2760588, and KB 2760583. The latest round of MS Auto Update hell comes on the heels of one of the worst runs in MS Patch Tuesday history — and just in time for Microsoft to expand the scope of its automatic update damage. 'Does this make you feel warm and fuzzy about automatic app updates in Windows 8.1?'"

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254 comments

Wipe the gravy from your face. (4, Funny)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about 7 months ago | (#44824375)

Microsoft just went bukkake on its customers.

Re:Wipe the gravy from your face. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824947)

actually the only one blown all over is you. you do realize this update that removes a folder pane if outlook hasnt been updated and then restores it when outlook *is* updated don't you? no, probably not but you saw the story title and just got all excited didnt you.

This is why I have a 1 week delayed install policy (5, Insightful)

dicobalt (1536225) | about 7 months ago | (#44824381)

It's simple but effective.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (3, Funny)

WarJolt (990309) | about 7 months ago | (#44824423)

Good thing it takes longer than a week to exploit Windows vulnerabilities.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824635)

That week makes little difference: Windows patches come weeks after the vulnerabilities are beeing exploited.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (3, Insightful)

tftp (111690) | about 7 months ago | (#44824435)

I, personally, have even better install policy: off. The disruption from MS patches exceeds the pain from defects in the OS.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Insightful)

fekmist (2857907) | about 7 months ago | (#44824489)

I used to have this policy as well, until I went GNU/Linux for 99% of the time. The 1% on Windows I use to play games but it is rare and seeing as Linux is getting more games nowadays I might go 100% soon enough.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824703)

Your virginity is assured. Rest at ease.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Informative)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 7 months ago | (#44824759)

Your virginity is assured. Rest at ease.

I've always wondered why folks think so highly of the mating game. After years of married life and kids I'm miserable, while the friend of mine who remained single and mostly dateless is now the happiest guy I know.

Rest uneasily, divorce court is rape.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824957)

You chose your mate .... poorly. Its like you bought a discount pentium I computer with 8 megs ram and are complaining that all computers suck. No, they don't you just suck at the selection process.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Funny)

wulfhere (94308) | about 7 months ago | (#44825165)

You forgot the unwritten (until just now) rule that all analogies on Slashdot must be car analogies. This is like if he bought a Jaguar that he thought was going to be a fun, sexy ride, but instead is terribly high maintenance and broken most of the time.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44826025)

I will use a video game one. He skipped the demo mode (dating) and went straight to trying to downloading something off piratebay then wondering why its not quite right and missing the box... You can get lucky many times with that. But every once and awhile...

tl'dr : dating is to figure out you can not stand them or you are they have emotional issues to deal with first...

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | about 7 months ago | (#44825649)

And with Linux, you get the free bonus that if you want to update anything that isn't part of your standard distribution, you're completely safe from unintended side effects. It's now been mathematically proven that no way exists to install out-of-band patches that does not also corrupt the known laws of physics, resulting in a subtle cascade effect that starts unnoticed but will ultimately invert the polarity of the sysadmin's cerebral cortex six months later and cause their brain to explode all over the nearest wall. Therefore no-one is actually foolish enough to try this any more, unless they really are planning to recompile their kernel, reformat their disks and recreate their LVM set-up, and then rebuild every other piece of software from scratch with the latest system libraries and a new GCC flag so it's all still compatible.

Seriously, please don't pretend Linux systems are somehow more maintainable than Windows ones because every now and then MS screw up. Linux systems are absurdly unmaintainable if you stray outside of the controlled environment of a well-managed distribution, and this is a direct result of the architectural foundations and established standards of Linux itself.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1)

0123456 (636235) | about 7 months ago | (#44826041)

Linux systems are absurdly unmaintainable if you stray outside of the controlled environment of a well-managed distribution, and this is a direct result of the architectural foundations and established standards of Linux itself.

That's like saying 'Windows is absurdly unmaintainable if you start randomly deleting system files you don't think you need'.

BTW, maybe you could explain how to fix my old XP machine which refuses to install any .Net framework updates: nothing works, including downloading the 'uinstall all this .Net crap and start over' program from Microsoft.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 7 months ago | (#44826183)

Linux systems are absurdly unmaintainable if you stray outside of the controlled environment of a well-managed distribution, and this is a direct result of the architectural foundations and established standards of Linux itself.

That is simply just not true. You keep the stuff you build separate from what the OS lays down, and ne'er the twain shall meet. Nor, in fact, affect each other in any way. You don't get automatic updates on that software, but life is hard all over.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 7 months ago | (#44826227)

Seriously, please don't pretend Linux systems are somehow more maintainable than Windows ones because every now and then MS screw up.

Screw up as in almost every month? If you haven't experienced it, you aren't doing enough different things.The folks I worked with that think Windows (anything) is the best thing since multiple orgasms didn't have to work with much variety of programs.

Re: This is why I have a 1 week delayed install po (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44826303)

I just reinstalled a Windows box that spontaneously decided that three minutes and twenty seconds was the magic number. After that amount of time it would instantly power off. I was convinced it was the hardware but after several tests and finding nothing wrong, I wiped the disk and reinstalled. Now it works fine.

I'll take an OS that doesn't corrupt itself over time and patches.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (4, Interesting)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 7 months ago | (#44824699)

Ditto for home - the only Windows box left in the house is a VM on my MacBook Pro, which doesn't have network access to the outside world.

Now at work? It depends on the box, where it sits (inside, DMZ, etc), what it does, and how badly the patch is needed. Snapshot/backup-before-patching is a *must*. Takes work to triage it all, but well worth the effort, all things considered.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 7 months ago | (#44825267)

Restoring domain controllers from images is a dangerous game. Nothing like'a'split brain AD network to make your day.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1)

joelleo (900926) | about 7 months ago | (#44825611)

USN rollback errors are a pain in the ass :(

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (2)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 7 months ago | (#44826311)

About the only way I can see you safely making a backup image before applying updates to an AD domain controller is to make the image, then download the updates, and then most importantly disconnect the DC from the network, or at least sever all links from any other DCs in the forest before applying the updates. That way if things do go south you can always restore the backup without having mucked up the rest of the forest.

I've done it on my forest, but each network segment is connected by a VPN or VLAN and there is only one DC per segment, so it would be relatively easy to segregate a DC during updates. Having more than one DC in the same AD site on the same segment would be a pain.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825451)

Macs are for fags.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Funny)

LordThyGod (1465887) | about 7 months ago | (#44825633)

Macs are for fags.

So how many do you own?

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (2)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 7 months ago | (#44826251)

Macs are for fags.

So how many do you own?

Hey, have some respect for Microsoft support, you insensitive clod!

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (0)

Bob9113 (14996) | about 7 months ago | (#44824763)

The disruption from MS patches exceeds the pain from defects in the OS.

And given the number of defects in the OS, that's really saying something. Bah-dum-bum. Thanks, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip the wait staff.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 7 months ago | (#44826179)

I, personally, have even better install policy: off. The disruption from MS patches exceeds the pain from defects in the OS.

Isn't that the truth! I think a lot of people who only have limited scope in what they do, simply don't understand just how much stuff Windows bollixes when it updates.

I supported just about all computer functions, and it was a monthly practice to go back in to repair what was turned on or off during the update, Video problems were encountered several times a year My favorite was whne Microsoft removed a codec and I had to on the fly in real time find a player that would play everyone's DVD's. Security patches often turned of or on features used by programs and made them no functional.I don't recall many patch Tuesdays that weren't followed by panicked phone calls as a group of 6 and 7 figure salaried guys had their meetings screwed up because of the updates.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824459)

It's OK, these specific bugs are minor... an unexpected UI change in office 2013 and an update to office 2007 that says it's not installed after it has been installed.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Funny)

steelfood (895457) | about 7 months ago | (#44824817)

an unexpected UI change in office 2013

Did they backtrack on ribbon too? Well it's about time.

Not that minor (1)

knarfling (735361) | about 7 months ago | (#44825021)

First, there is a KB missing from the article. He states that there are six patches botched, but only lists five of them.
I can confirm that the sixth botched patch, KB2810048, affects Excel 2003. Like the Office 2007 patches, it keeps trying to install again and again and again.

The issue that these patches are trying to fix is a privilege escalation exploit. By loading a crafted Office file, it can give user privileges to an external user. If running as a normal user, this is not that big of a deal. But there are still programs running out there in the corp world that require admin privileges to work properly. If the user is running as an admin user, you have just given admin rights to an external user.

I admit it is not an OS issue, and there may not be many people affected. Still, I wish MS would test their patches a little better before sending them out.


(Disclaimer: I am a Linux user in the office, running Fedora, but I am responsible for maintaining patches for all of of Windows desktops and servers. And because of regulations [HIPPA, SOX, PCI], we have to keep things updated, sometimes when it doesn't make sense to update. )

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Funny)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 7 months ago | (#44824651)

Linux user here. No real comment, just enjoying the show.

Do you pay for this operating system?

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Informative)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 7 months ago | (#44824791)

Yes, because I develop cross platform applications, but I run it in a VM on Linux too, so I just restored the MS OS partition from snapshot. If you don't have a separate partition for /home/, or if you you let Windows touch bare metal, you're going to have a bad time. Always use protection.

Unvirtualized proprietary software? Not even once.

Re: This is why I have a 1 week delayed install po (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824793)

The price is reduced due to
NSA subsidies.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (3, Interesting)

JakeBurn (2731457) | about 7 months ago | (#44824987)

Windows user here. Have never had an issue from a patch and definitely glad I paid for Win7. Quite nice being able to play games that are fun. For everything else that can be done on Linux, why bother?

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (3, Insightful)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 7 months ago | (#44825069)

It's free, it's fast, it's open, it's reliable, and it's not back-doored by the NSA?

I had no problem with the update (2)

bobwalt (2500092) | about 7 months ago | (#44825351)

Plus I can use my computer and all its hardware for just about anything I want without having to worry about support for any of my devices. In addition, I do not have to debug the problems that occur. BTW - I can guarantee that the NSA is thoroughly familiar with open source operating systems and can get them to do anything they want.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (2)

AHuxley (892839) | about 7 months ago | (#44825143)

+1 Just enjoy the great games on good gpu drivers on fast gpu hardware.
For other roles it seems to be a stressful OS choice.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1, Insightful)

Chryana (708485) | about 7 months ago | (#44825265)

I used to run Linux on my desktop (and I still run it on one of my laptops), and honestly Linux has nothing, nothing to envy to Windows in regards to troublesome updates. True, updates to Linux are to the whole environment, while you have to update nearly everything by hand on Windows, but at least on Windows the programs still work after the update. On Ubuntu and once or twice Debian testing, I've had the following software stop working: Nvidia driver (no gui, joy), mpd, OSS4, SSHFS, dm-crypt /tmp and swap, wireless driver. Nvidia and wireless drivers are especially annoying in that I used to have fiddle with them on every kernel update (plus, I have to find a cable to plug my laptop to ethernet, how quaint). SSHFS, mpd and dm-crypt happened on an upgrade from a major version to the next, but OSS4 and the drivers just broke out of the blue. I don't think I ever upgraded from a major version of Ubuntu to the next without issues.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (5, Insightful)

Zontar The Mindless (9002) | about 7 months ago | (#44825509)

Ubuntu != Linux.

And "Debian testing" is called "testing" for a reason. See if you can figure out what that is.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (2)

Chryana (708485) | about 7 months ago | (#44826249)

Yes, I run Debian stable now for that very reason. I realized after I posted that it was rather dumb to compare security updates to program updates. With that said, I'm not sure how I am supposed to take your comment Ubuntu!=Linux. How is that addressing anything that I have said? I'm not trying to bash any distribution in particular, I like apt, I think it's the best packaging system out there in the Linux world right now, and I like Debian. However, I just wanted to point out that the update process on Windows is often a lot smoother than what most people on desktop-oriented Linux distributions experience. On Windows, you update most of your programs by hand, but hardly anything at all ever breaks. On Linux, everything is automated, but if your distribution releases anything more than security patches, chances are high you're going to see some breakage which may not be fixed until the next major release. Good luck fixing what just broke.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (4, Insightful)

Blakey Rat (99501) | about 7 months ago | (#44825651)

Use another distro, obviously you're doing something wrong and it's all your fault, you must have a weird configuration nobody else in the universe has, well it's open source you can go fix the updates yourself, maybe you're just not smart enough to run a sophisticated OS like Linux, etc etc etc etc.

Just going through the litany of replies you'll get to save some time.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1, Informative)

DogDude (805747) | about 7 months ago | (#44825469)

By "enjoying the show", do you mean feverishly working through dependency hell to try to make updates work at all on your *nix system?

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (3, Funny)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 7 months ago | (#44825515)

Have you used a Debian based system? Dude, step into this millennium.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1)

hedwards (940851) | about 7 months ago | (#44825557)

I agree, I rarely have trouble like that on Linux Mint. I think the last time I had trouble like that was when I was running RedHat, the people who designed the RPM system deserve to burn in hell for making it so that you couldn't just install all the packages you needed without manually installing each one. Presumably, they've fixed that by now. But, I gave up on them like a decade ago.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | about 7 months ago | (#44825721)

Have you ever used a Debian based system with Linux software RAID?

The standard installer will fail and you'll be straight back to hacking config files and manually playing with hard drive partitions, which is totally something you want to do because it's not error prone at all.

For extra credit, if you tried upgrading from 6 to 7 using the normal apt-based commands, don't forget to keep a spare live CD handy in case your system becomes unbootable because it didn't update the boot loader properly on all of your array's drives.

When Debian steps into this millennium by having basic install and update processes that support basic system management functionality, then maybe you're allowed to snipe at Microsoft for screwing things up like today, but not before.

(Serious moment: If the 6->7 GRUB problem does happen to anyone reading this, try switching to boot from one of the other drives in your BIOS. If you hit the usual problem here, probably one drive in your array did get updated properly but it wasn't your default boot drive. If you can figure out which one it was and boot from that instead, you can then fix up the others without resorting to a live CD or other heavyweight recovery mechanism.)

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (3, Interesting)

deek (22697) | about 7 months ago | (#44826315)

True. I recently went through a bunch of Debian upgrades from 6 to 7, and this happened to one server. Unfortunately, it was one of the few physical servers on the list, which meant I had to haul my ass down to the data centre, early hours of the morning, to fix it at the console.

Serves me right for ignoring the grub update warning while doing the update. A simple "grub-install /dev/sda", when the update process is finished, would have made sure that all was OK. Also, this can be fixed by booting the Debian 7 install CD, and running through the rescue menu. No need for a live CD or such.

Still, it's a shame that this one got through the testing process, especially for such a crucial bit of the system. Very unusual for Debian.

Re:This is why I have a 1 week delayed install pol (3, Informative)

Ol Olsoc (1175323) | about 7 months ago | (#44826267)

By "enjoying the show", do you mean feverishly working through dependency hell to try to make updates work at all on your *nix system?

It isn't 1998 any more. Why do you use 1998 arguments?

way overblown (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824479)

I am not sure how this qualifies as a patch disaster. There appears to be nothing wrong with the patch. The issue appears purely to be people that haven't updated their outlook while installing the latest patches lose a folder pane, annoying but hardly a disaster and fixed by updating their machine. The issue is applying a new patch to an out of date version.

Re:way overblown (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824661)

The issue is applying a new patch to an out of date version.

If this is not the definition of updating I don't know what is...

This is Slashdot! (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824769)

I am not sure how this qualifies as a patch disaster. There appears to be nothing wrong with the patch. The issue appears purely to be people that haven't updated their outlook while installing the latest patches lose a folder pane, annoying but hardly a disaster and fixed by updating their machine. The issue is applying a new patch to an out of date version.

This is Slashdot! Thus, this event is the worst thing to happen to mankind EVAR. And it is ALL MICROSOFT'S FAULT!!!!!

Are you not entertained?

Re:way overblown (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824771)

The complaints about wasted productivity due to Microsoft's typical horrific performance problems are not overblown. I had more than two dozen engineers waste over three hours on average this morning because Microsoft botched KB2868116. The forced Microsoft updates started at 3am. The updates started finishing at around 11am. That's eight hours due to Microsoft's terrible bloat, and three hours of expensive labor wasted. Considering these forced botched updates are now wasting nearly half a day at least once a month, my department is losing over six figures a year. The C-levels love dumping money on Microsoft products for nothing in return, but when Microsoft decides to start preventing their customers from working, the c-levels will eventually stop doing that. I know my boss recently said no to a blackmail (pay us or you might start having trouble) demand from Microsoft for an update to SharePoint. Fortunately, we did not pay the $50k extra they tried to force out of us. So when SharePoint quit again, and Microsoft was unable to get it running again, we finally dropped their garbage.

Re:way overblown (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825017)

Eight hours what? Sounds like you have the worst IT dept. in the world.

Re:way overblown (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825127)

> worst IT dept. in the world.

Typical Microsoft cultist. You lash out and attack and blame everyone but the people responsible. The Microsoft update took over eight hours to run, most of it because of KB2868116, on a brand new clean install of Windows 7. How is that our IT department's fault? It isn't. Please stop with your irrational attacks and irrational defense of Microsoft garbage.

Re:way overblown (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825367)

1) Not on my "brand new clean install" it didn't.

2) Why are you running updates during work hours?

3) Why are you running updates without testing them first?

I'm not defending MS. I'm attacking your fucking awful IT department.

Re:way overblown (4, Informative)

recoiledsnake (879048) | about 7 months ago | (#44825891)

Please do your company a favor and tell your cluless IT support about the existence of this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Server_Update_Services [wikipedia.org]

Windows Server Update Services 2.0 and above comprise a repository of update packages from Microsoft. It allows administrators to approve or decline updates before release, to force updates to install by a given date, and to obtain extensive reports on what updates each machine requires. System administrators can also configure WSUS to approve certain classes of updates automatically (critical updates, security updates, service packs, drivers, etc.). One can also approve updates for "detection" only, allowing an administrator to see what machines will require a given update without also installing that update.

Administrators can use WSUS with Group Policy for client-side configuration of the Automatic Updates client, ensuring that end-users can't disable or circumvent corporate update policies. WSUS does not require the use of Active Directory; client configuration can also be applied by local group policy or by modifying the Windows registry.

Re:way overblown (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825111)

Sadly MS can't do anything to help those with incompetent engineers. If you are working in an enterprise with a dozen engineers there is NO SUCH THING AS A FORCED PATCH. you choose to deploy, and if your engineers were too lazy or incompetent to test you have far worse problems then bad patches.

Re:way overblown (5, Insightful)

Nimey (114278) | about 7 months ago | (#44824775)

Because there's a vocal bunch on Slashdot who get excited by a chance to hate on things, especially [Microsoft|Google|Sony|the government].

Re:way overblown (3, Informative)

hedwards (940851) | about 7 months ago | (#44825589)

Spoken like somebody that hasn't wasted hours trying to figure out why the computer is running so slow. Only to discover that the computer is running so slow because MS decided to disable UDMA on the drive without bothering to ask permission or even bother to mention that they'd done so.

And that's hardly the only example, MS ought to be paying people to use their shitty software as they sure as hell shouldn't expect to be paid for the privilege of beta testing their software.

Re:way overblown (3, Informative)

Blakey Rat (99501) | about 7 months ago | (#44825663)

If Windows does that, it:
1) is a result of hardware failure (meaning: the drive kept failing writes, and did it consistently enough that Windows "stepped-down" to a more simple protocol).
2) tells the user in the form of a notification bubble, and of course it gets logged in the Event Viewer like everything else.

So basically you have broken hardware and are blind. I mean if you were running Linux and it had a similar hardware failure, you'd just have files mysteriously deleted also with no notice, so obviously the Linux way is far superior.

Re:way overblown (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824809)

I am not sure how this qualifies as a patch disaster. There appears to be nothing wrong with the patch. The issue appears purely to be people that haven't updated their outlook while installing the latest patches lose a folder pane, annoying but hardly a disaster and fixed by updating their machine. The issue is applying a new patch to an out of date version.

Get out of here with your facts and rational! Microsoft made a mistake so the modus operandi of slashdot in that situation is to embrace, extend and ignorantly ridicule.

Re:way overblown (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825147)

Exactly. No one remembers problems with XP SP 2?

Re:way overblown (1)

Nimey (114278) | about 7 months ago | (#44825453)

In fact, I don't. I had three computers out of a couple hundred that barfed on SP2 when we finally rolled it out (over a year later, fwiw), and those were fixed with a repair install.

Re:way overblown (1)

yuhong (1378501) | about 7 months ago | (#44825761)

The updated Outlook has to be manually requested as a hotfix, but that update they pulled shortly. The other patches only suffer issues related to failed installation and redetection, which is not a serious problem.

Three Letter Words (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824529)

Maybe these are not botched upgrades at all, maybe they are just a sop to the Security Apparatus giving them predetermined attack vectors to exploit. It would surely explain the ball-gags in the Corporate Response Team's mouths.

Squeal like a pig!

More flavors of Windows coming? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824535)

Edition patch-Tuesday: $200 (get a rebate for beta-testing our patches!)
Edition patch-Wednesday: $250 (only get patches that didn't break anything on Tuesday)
Edition patch-other-days: $200 (thanks for spreading the load on our servers, your window of vulnerability is longer though)

Thought it was just me (1)

Radical Moderate (563286) | about 7 months ago | (#44824627)

Rebooted several times and the last 3 patches still wouldn't apply, finally went to control panel and forced them manually. Looks like the .net patches were the problem. Basically my machine was unusable for about an hour. Probably could have fixed it quicker, but I was doing other things and not really paying attention until the third or fourth reboot.

Re:Thought it was just me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824725)

I had some .net patches fail on me last month as well. Haven't run this month's updates yet, but I was considering uninstalling and reinstalling .net before I continue.

Beta Is the New Gold Master (5, Insightful)

organgtool (966989) | about 7 months ago | (#44824657)

It's shit like this that forces me to turn off automatic updates and wait a month before manually applying updates. And it's not just a Microsoft problem - I have also seen similar issues from Apple and Canonical.

Re:Beta Is the New Gold Master (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824953)

ya, I absolutely hate it when an update changes a ui option that takes 2 clicks to turn back on; fucking shit patches!

Re:Beta Is the New Gold Master (0)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 7 months ago | (#44825003)

Are ypu nuts?!

There are over 130+ updates on my Win 7 sp1 which is only 2 years old and represents +200 security holes and exploits! God help you if you use the older win 7 rtm or worse XP without a single patch. I have financial data and hundreds of gigs of data and vms so a reimage due to a virus is unconscionable.

Re:Beta Is the New Gold Master (2)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 7 months ago | (#44825123)

Not sure what the fuck you're doing with a bunch of VMs on Win7, but just don't.

That's like trying to stuff a second engine into a Beetle.

Re:Beta Is the New Gold Master (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44826111)

99% of the time if you want to jack up a windows box the *easy* way is to dl shit off the net. Want to have an easy way to revert that? Its called a VM. I have 5 or so myself of varying types of windows and another 4 or so of linux flavors. That way when one of my family calls for help I can fire up the exact version of windows they have and tell them exactly what to click on. And telling someone on a fixed budget to buy a new computer is not an option.

Want to try latest version of some software and find out they have handly included 3 toolbars and another copy of chrome for you? VM...

Many times my first stop for fixing a 'slow' windows box is the program and features. If you think linux is immune to this you clearly have not used a default install of ubuntu.

Re:Beta Is the New Gold Master (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 7 months ago | (#44826201)

That's like trying to stuff a second engine into a Beetle.

Which, thanks to you, I want to do now. Put an electric drive system in the front of the car, and a 1.6 liter subaru motor in the back. I wonder what would make a good donor for the front suspension and cross member.

Re:Beta Is the New Gold Master (2)

tftp (111690) | about 7 months ago | (#44825669)

God help you if you use the older win 7 rtm or worse XP without a single patch. I have financial data and hundreds of gigs of data and vms so a reimage due to a virus is unconscionable.

If you are so concerned about your data, your best option is to keep it on a server that is not connected to the Internet. What are you doing, trusting "hundreds of GB" to a few platters of spinning rust? As a minimum you need a RAID 1 or higher NAS, and ideally you need an offsite mirror.

Assuming that you are a typical careful user, your chances of getting a virus are far lower than your chances of seeing your HDD crashed. Even Linus is not protected from that!

Re:Beta Is the New Gold Master (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 7 months ago | (#44826309)

You may want to ask Linus how well his platter of rust is doing after he switched to SSD and it died?

VMWare Workstation is designed for things like this. Needless to say my clients do not want to pay for a big ass server to host my VMs to learn. I work in I.T. and did help desk. Trust me virii are always a problem.

I hate AV software and some updates are not perfect but it is well worth the price. True I could switch to Linux as a host? But people pay me to support Windows and I run Wow and SWTOR and Office. Sigh

Thankfully I do not run a server like this, but I emulate what I have at work and home projects. Each domain I create is 30 gigs each. Several with one with SCCM 2010, SCCM 2012, Client copy (80 gig each) etc, and they add up. Any IT guy worth his salt has something like this to keep things up.

Re: Beta Is the New Gold Master (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825053)

What a bunch of BS. I manage a WSUS server used by more than 9,000 workstations. In 10 years, this is the second update that i have had to pull out of my approved list. The last one many years ago and was an update to Windows Desktop Search than pegged the CPU on a small percentage of machines.

Yea, what burden Windows Updates are. How do we survive?

Re:Beta Is the New Gold Master (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | about 7 months ago | (#44825807)

And it's not just a Microsoft problem - I have also seen similar issues from Apple and Canonical.

I think the problem of hasty and bug-ridden updates is becoming endemic in the industry.

On my work computer, I have a detailed log of every piece of software and software update that has ever been manually installed since the very first time the machine was powered on, a lesson learned the hard way. Moreover, I am absolutely strict about installing only necessary software, no trials, install/uninstall cycles just to experiment, or anything like that.

Even so, among other applications to have become buggy or outright corrupt over the intervening three years are:

  • Mozilla Firefox
  • Google Chrome
  • Mozilla Thunderbird
  • Adobe Flash
  • Adobe Acrobat
  • Oracle Java
  • Various Sublime Text 2 plug-ins
  • LibreOffice

In many cases, a subsequent update then fixed the problem again, but the amount of time I've lost due to buggy updates that get in the way of doing normal work is just silly.

Microsoft have caused one serious problem too, but nothing that rebooting Windows into recovery mode and going back to the system restore point before the updates I'd just installed couldn't fix.

These days, I switch everything possible into "Tell me but don't install automatically" mode, but even that won't stop all problems. The sooner we have an operating system that forcibly restricts where applications can install and modify data, so at the very least we can cleanly and robustly remove and reinstall something that has become flaky, the sooner I'll have some confidence in the software I'm running again. It's amazing that even in 2013 it is still the norm for installers/updaters to just get permission to run as Administrator/root and then crap all over anything they feel like (unless they're browsers, in which case wilfully circumventing the normal security protocols so their updates don't even need to run as Administrator/root to crap all over stuff is apparently acceptable).

these are MS Office patches, not Windows patches (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824677)

Will affect a lot of people but isn't an OS breaker -- it's an app-breaker that affects corporate users but home users usually don't touch.

Re:these are MS Office patches, not Windows patche (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825135)

Corporate doesn't care if it's an app breaker or an OS breaker.

If the drones can't work, they can't work.

Re: these are MS Office patches, not Windows patch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825273)

The 'drones' can work just fine. The patch made the folder list look empty. It takes one extra click to get to folders via the 'all folders' link. Anyone who could not get past this until the hot fix could be applied in a moron.

A new MS OS? Windows NSA (0)

Bob_Who (926234) | about 7 months ago | (#44824751)

A whole new kind hole patch hell. Patching holes with bigger holes, the MS-NSA way!

MS Patches (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824849)

Let us bash again. Story, I have 3 comps running windows, all the same to include Office 2007. One is Win 7, one is Win 8 and the third is Win 8.1 preview. No patch problems. I have never had a patch problem that I can remember. Of course, maybe because I build my own and don't have all that other crap in there. But that is good, a /. s story negative about MSFT which Apple fails with its latest IPhone with its copy-cat coloration taken from Windows Phone (HTC and Nokia). But of course, here, that is not news. Patches

Re: MS Patches (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44824931)

You must not be living in the same world as me. That or you forgot to take your pills.

When is it too complex to maintain? (2)

BoRegardless (721219) | about 7 months ago | (#44825011)

Given all the backward compatibility for legacy items and new OS items, how long can it go before it becomes virtually impossible to maintain reliable code?

First rule with Microsoft patches (2)

jd (1658) | about 7 months ago | (#44825027)

NEVER trust the odd numbers. The even number patch releases are where they fix the problems with the odd number patch releases.

Basically, Microsoft is dealing with multiple Operating Systems for which no complete design document exists. For any of them. Microsoft is highly departmentalized and, in consequence, it is impossible for Microsoft to compile a single design for the entire system. They simply don't have the structure.

This is not necessarily a bad thing - things tend to be worse when unrelated subsystems start making assumptions about internal design that they shouldn't. It simply means the Windows environment is now too big for a corporation to manage. Microsoft has exceeded its maximum stable size, and has done for some time. (Based on quality of products, I'd say somewhere around the DOS 4.0 level, but that would be mean. Accurate but mean.)

The only reason I use MS products at all is that application developers go out of their way to be burdensome to non-MS users. Wine has a terrible time with many Windows applications and that's about the only way to run them at all. I would truly love developers to push platform-specifics into a library. It can be done. They can then either write libraries for other OS' or provide the API to that library so that others can write a porting library. It's not like it would hurt sales and it won't affect the game because it's purely a support module.

But, no, game companies and solo writers prefer their 1970s approach to coding - damn the portability, even if all OS' are 99.5% the same, and damn the sales, we want absolute totalitarian power! Bwahahahahahahahaha! Even if it'll eventually kill the product and the company. Who cares, when you're rich, powerful and utterly FUBAR!

Delay on purpose (1)

blue9steel (2758287) | about 7 months ago | (#44825199)

We deliberately wait three days because I know if anything bad happens it will show up on Slashdot before we deploy.

this is why testing is needed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825223)

I would like to remind everyone who complains about fixes taking "too long" that this is what happens when "not log enough" occurs. Software is complex. Operating systems particularly so. Testing takes time. More in more complex products.

Crowbar (0)

SomeRADDude (635369) | about 7 months ago | (#44825225)

Dear Micro$oft, Please gently insert crowbar between lower sphincter and right ear, apply gentle pressure gradually increasing until cranium is removed from anal cavity, breathe deeply and think your plan through next time. Thanks

Very informative (1)

Jaktar (975138) | about 7 months ago | (#44825341)

This 'disaster' is much worse than the time my kids gave me a rotavirus and I had trouble sleeping for fear I might wake up without bowel control.

There were dozens of reports! DOZENS!

I don't use Windows 8 and MS office (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44825403)

article mentions that the patches are for Microsoft Office 2007 and later and Windows 8?. I use Windows XP and OpenOffice.org

For my machine (1)

kilodelta (843627) | about 7 months ago | (#44825461)

An old XP SP3 box I had about 8 WinXP patches, then patches for O2K3 and O2K7 (Don't ask!). Then once the computer had restarted a couple Excel 2007 patches, etc.

Re:For my machine (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#44826271)

XP here too on my now nearly 9 year old Dell XPS desktop. I am slowly developing a paranoia that sometime before April 2014, dear Microsoft will put out a kill-patch for XP, forcing everyone to upgrade or die. Maybe it is time to wall off the old box from the internet and move the new Linux laptop into the "front desk" position...

Jesus Christ (3, Insightful)

Blakey Rat (99501) | about 7 months ago | (#44825625)

Did you used to write propaganda for the Nazis? Give the rhetoric a rest and just report the facts, please.

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