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Adobe Responds to KIllustrator

michael posted more than 13 years ago | from the let-me-draw-you-a-picture dept.

KDE 294

j7953 writes: "German news service heise online reports that Adobe wants to settle the KIllustrator case. According to the article (here's Google's translation), they demand that KIllustrator gets a new name, but don't want to stop its distribution or development. They also promise that the author won't have to pay anything."

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Re:Let's just call it KDraw! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#91959)

No! Then they get sued by Corel! Oh wait...

Re:How about........ (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#91960)

KINK Killistrator is now KINK

Um, excuse me, but I represent a Mr. Ray Davies ...

So who's paying the lawyers? (2)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#91962)

Is Adobe going to foot the bill for the zealousness of the IP lawyers who went after the university?

Re:Hmm. (3)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#91963)

Somebody must have dropped you on your head as a child. The arguement you
Set that Adobe has rights to an English word shows you must have your thumb
Up your ass. There is absolutely no possible way that
US Law would ever protect a company who is trying to pillage and abuse
The english language. You need to realize that you and the US are not the
Bomb and get over it. You make me sick

no future (1)

bobalu (1921) | more than 13 years ago | (#91965)

Well IANAL and all, but I think the "gaim" guys don't have a leg to stand on. As with KIllustrator it's about as blatant as you can be in infringing the known mark. Ask yourself, how do you know what kind of program "GAIM" is? Because you know what "AIM" is. Simple as that. 30 million people know what AIM is, compared to how many for GAIM? So which would be the "famous mark"?

If they wanted to protect it then they should've filed for the trademark themselves. It typically costs under $2k, which is less than they need to come up with now to defend themselves. So if you think they have the best chance, which is actually no chance at all... well, you figure it out.

Let face it folks, it costs nothing to name a program creatively. If you're making an open version of something that's already around and owned by a big company with deep pockets do yourself a favor and call it "Fred" or something.

Overzealous lawyers? (2)

iabervon (1971) | more than 13 years ago | (#91966)

Adobe probably only wanted from the start to get Killustrator to change its name. In order to accomplish this in a way that counts as defending their trademark, they have to make it official (they can't just call the guy up and ask nicely). But the guy was in Germany, and, under German law, the lawyers take their pay out of the hide of the people they harass. Since this in an international project with significant visibility in the US, where that sort of thing is considered blatently unjust, they seem to be trying to get the lawyers in check.

Problem solved; chalk the whole mess up to cultural differences. It would be interesting to know, however, what Adobe told the lawyers to do in the first place; neither of them seems to have revealed whether Adobe actually asked the lawyers to pursue this particular case.

Re:Good thing to see (1)

khuber (5664) | more than 13 years ago | (#91974)

Because it's an obvious take off on Illustrator!

It couldn't be more blatant unless The GIMP
called itself GAdobePhotoshop or a new cola soft
drink called itself KCoke.

Illustrator is a famous moniker and Adobe doesn't
want someone getting a free ride on all their
effort to develop that recognition.

I don't think it is an unreasonable request.


Re:Good thing to see (1)

khuber (5664) | more than 13 years ago | (#91975)

This case doesn't seem very murky to me since
KIllustrator and Illustrator are such similar
programs (vector drawing programs).

Is it really true that it is murky?


Cheers For Adobe (1)

malus (6786) | more than 13 years ago | (#91976)

I am a fan of adobe software, have been for over 10 years. Cheers to Adobe for not taking a Microsoft/AOL "Screw em' Till It Bleeds" attitude. Changing the name of a program is nothing.

Re:Cheers For Adobe (2)

malus (6786) | more than 13 years ago | (#91977)

I disagree.

Illustrator has been around for, good grief, over a dozen years.

Illustrator is synonymous with vector-art creation, and KDE project took advantage of that name. I'm not saying in a dubious way, but they did use the Illustrator 'NAME', it's 'IMAGE' if you will.

Adobe has shown great restraint in this matter, and I for one am proud of them for it.

Re:Good thing to see (1)

jim68000 (8746) | more than 13 years ago | (#91983)

Photoshop and Coke weren't words already, Illustrator was.

coke certainly was: here's why []

KIllustrator's new name... (4)

kzinti (9651) | more than 13 years ago | (#91986)

Why don't they just call it the K'ustrator?


Re:Hmm. (2)

Col. Klink (retired) (11632) | more than 13 years ago | (#91995)

The name "Juan Epstein" is property of James Komack (producer of "Welcome Back Kotter") et al.

You must stop using the name immediately and, BTW, you owe me $4,000 for pointing this out.

Re:The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly... (1)

dwlemon (11672) | more than 13 years ago | (#91996)

Of course! And the summary would say "The Man is trying to make him change his name." and everybody gets upset about a company trying to get somebody to change their name because of copyright infringement and people start 100 threads about naming their children "Microsoft" or "Adobe" and then a few people who actually read the article respond saying that it wasn't "his" name they wanted to change, it was his program's name, but they get moderated (-1, Offtopic). And the trolls have a hey-day getting everybody in an uproar with petitions to sign and rallys that nobody attends and so it's slashdot as usual.

Re:understandable (1)

ethereal (13958) | more than 13 years ago | (#92002)

I can't understand how consumers could not tell the difference between "Kapple" and "Apple". They're even pronounced different, for cryin' out loud. I could see more problems if it was "Apple" and "Appple" (pronounced the same) or "Apple" and "Apple" (pronounced differently (I don't know how) but spelled the same). But "Kapple" is spelled and pronounced differently than "Apple", just like "KIllustrator" is spelled and pronounced differently than "Illustrator". I still hold out hopes that the average consumer is not so stupid, I guess.

Re:Moral of the Story (1)

ethereal (13958) | more than 13 years ago | (#92003)

...actually, it really sounds like a Klingon proverb somehow :)

Re:Uh... (2)

ethereal (13958) | more than 13 years ago | (#92006)

That sounds like a pretty poor German law - what if Adobe didn't even have a problem with KIllustrator? Some law firm has just gone and destroyed a lot of Adobe mindshare in the Linux market, effectively dragging Adobe's name through the mud (a lot more than the clone named KIllustrator ever did, I might point out) and now said law firm wants to charge Adobe for the privilege? If I were in that entirely hypothetical situation, I'd sue the pants off of the lawyers that started the whole ruckus :)

Re:Cheers For Adobe (3)

Robotech_Master (14247) | more than 13 years ago | (#92007)

Standard disclaimer: IANAL (though I am somewhat anal :).

Illustrator may be a generic name/word/what-have-you--but Illustrator-the-vector-graphics-computer-program is most emphatically not generic. Adobe isn't trying to claim sole dominion over all uses of the word Illustrator--just the use of the word Illustrator for which it holds a trademark.

People, it's the same fallacy that the anime fansub traders fall into--the ones who think that because they're not out to make a profit, the copyright law doesn't apply to them. Apparently the people who name these programs--these Killustrators and FreeMWares (yes, I know FreeMWare changed the name back to the name of the project they borrowed code from to begin with, but they still did choose and use that name for a while) and so on--are under the impression that because they're not trying to make a profit, the trademark law does not apply to them. I've got news for them--they're wrong.

This sort of situation is precisely the reason why we have trademark laws in the first place--to prevent one party from trying to trade on the good name and reputation of another party by creating a similar product with a similar name.

You may not like it, but there it is. And while the rabid German lawyers may have been over the line in their actions, Adobe is certainly not over the line to ask that the name be changed. Let's just be thankful that's all they're asking.


Three cheers (1)

Hammer (14284) | more than 13 years ago | (#92008)

Thanx Adobe,

Really classy, protect that trademark but don't totally screw OSS.
Next time keep a shorter laesh on the lawyers though, thhis kinda thing don't have to get blown out of proportion like this.

The translation is a blast! (2)

His name cannot be s (16831) | more than 13 years ago | (#92019)

Does it seem to anyone else that the translation makes the article seem as if it were written by an android (ala Bicentennial Man)?

"One wants not to prevent the spreading of the KIllustrator, but requires only a change of the name of the program"

"One sees no trademark law injury in the KIllustrator side on the university server, was called it on the part of the university administration"

"How one will react to the Adobe offer, one must discuss now first with the own lawyers"

"One wants to achieve an amicable agreement now"

Lawyer as borg (3)

Midnight Thunder (17205) | more than 13 years ago | (#92021)

This is true, but from what I can tell this whole affair was due to lawyers acting proactivley, instead of waiting to Adobe to ask them to act. I reckon that companies should really set out a set of rules of conduct with the their law firms, ie what sort of things that can do without waitng for the company to call on and what they have to wait to act an before getting an acknowledgement from the company that employed them. This would probably save the company money aswell.

Maybe we need a lawyer as borg icon?

Re:Hmm. (3)

Rolan (20257) | more than 13 years ago | (#92026)

I think that mosts peoples objections weren't about a name change or trademark protection, they were about several other things.

  • Method -- Adobe never attempted to talk to the author about a change, they sent a lawyer after him.
  • Stoping Distribution -- Adobe wanted distribution of the product stoped, not just a name change. Very anti-competitive.
  • Destruction -- Adobe also wanted the product completely destroyed. This is as anti-competitive as microsoft. The product does the same thing, no matter what the name, destruction just tries to crush competition.
  • Money -- Adobe was going after the author for a very large sum of money (atleast to us non-millionares).

I personally can see adobe's view on things, though I did not agree with their initial methods. I can understand their reasons (for the name change, but not the rest that I listed above). The fact that both sides have wised up is actually fairly refreshing.

I Wish Every Company Would Do this (4)

Seanasy (21730) | more than 13 years ago | (#92027)

<rant>While I hate corporatism, the state of open-source application names makes me wish every company would do this. Any chance Adobe could make the stipulation that the new name does not have the letter "K" in it? Could we file a class action suit against the Gnome/GNU/KDE developers to keep them from using such ugly, unintuitive, useless names? Why does everything have to be Gno-this or K-that or GNU-whatever? Where's the application naming howto?</rant>

Re:Hmm. (1)

ccweigle (25237) | more than 13 years ago | (#92029)

Killustrator's creators are protected by law because their name is a parody ...

That's not a parody. That's an obviously similar name meant to draw attention to the fact that the product is similar to Adobe's Illustrator. The name says 'well, this product is practically Illustrator'. That's why Adobe objected, and was within their rights to do so.

You can't just parody the name and copy the product anyway - it wouldn't be protectable under fair-use laws as a proper parody. A protectable parody of Illustrator would require the product to be a parody, too. Ill-lust-trader, a p2p/vector-graphics combo program for creating/viewing/trading fetish porn ... THAT would be parody.

Re:what is needed is a new recursive acronym (2)

GauteL (29207) | more than 13 years ago | (#92034)

How is that recursive?

If you've said "KINI Is Not Illustrator", then I'd agree with you ;-).

Re:Good thing to see (1)

NickV (30252) | more than 13 years ago | (#92035)

Listen to yourselves!

Can you HONESTLY say that when you hear Illustrator in a "graphic-design" context you don't automatically think of Adobe Illustrator?

I bet if MS released something called MSOpen Source, which had nothing to do with open source , you would all jump down MS' throat, and if someone commented "But Open Source are real words, how can it be a trademark!" they would labelled a troll.

Adobe is right in this case.

Re:The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly... (2)

generic-man (33649) | more than 13 years ago | (#92037)

Adobe has a trademark on "Illustrator" as it applies to computer software. You are not a computer program, so you cannot be sued if you called yourself an "Illustrator."

Open up your white pages and look at all the businesses that have names starting with "ABC" (ABC Plumbing, ABC Roof Repair, ABC Beverage Supply) and notice that they're all perfectly legal names. The American Broadcasting Company, American Bowling Congress, or Australian Broadcasting Company can't sue them for trademark dilution despite the fact that all three hold the trademark "ABC" in their respective jurisdictions and functions.

Re:Cheers For Adobe (1)

tarkin (34045) | more than 13 years ago | (#92038)

I still hope that Adobe will port some products to Linux. Try and imagine how a Photoshop/Illustrator for linux could improve the printing of images etc... ?
Wether you want to use it or not is a totally other discussion.

Offcourse they should embrace some kind of Open Source license for the added technologies it implies. Because we wouldn't be as happy otherwise ;)

Goes well with Gimp. (1)

Shelrem (34273) | more than 13 years ago | (#92040)

I actually really like this name. It fits well with the Gimp, yet makes sense. My vote goes for KInk.


rw (1)

SETY (46845) | more than 13 years ago | (#92046)

reasons wins!

How about........ (5)

JohnnyO (50199) | more than 13 years ago | (#92047)

KINK Killistrator is now KINK

Adobe PhotoShop for Linux (1)

wolf- (54587) | more than 13 years ago | (#92048)

Listen, Adobe, I'd buy it.
No problem paying for decent software.

KIllustrator (5)

ucblockhead (63650) | more than 13 years ago | (#92051)

They should rename it KNotIllustratorAtAll.

Re:Good thing to see (5)

BorgDrone (64343) | more than 13 years ago | (#92052)

They could always call it KDraw or something
What about KorelDraw! :)

Re:I Wish Every Company Would Do this (2)

Zigg (64962) | more than 13 years ago | (#92053)

Hear, hear!

While we're at it, how about projects that start out their names with "GNU", but aren't really part of GNU; they just use the GPL?

Re:I Wish Every Company Would Do this (2)

Zigg (64962) | more than 13 years ago | (#92054)

You could always ldd file | grep kde, y'know.

understandable (2)

SirSlud (67381) | more than 13 years ago | (#92056)

This really isn't so bad .. I can understand why I wouldn't be allowed to sell computers under a name like KApple. This is what trademarks were invented for in the first place .. products in competing spaces should have different names. It does service for the uninformed consumer too, as one new to the *nix/KDE environment may have thought KIllustrator was a KDE version of Illustrator. Now, if KIllustrator were a motorcycle or something, Adobe woulda been outta line. Frankly, I'm surprised alot of the KDE projects havn't had to change their name sooner (and a name change won't stop me or anyone else from using it.)

Let's just call it KDraw! (2)

Noryungi (70322) | more than 13 years ago | (#92063)

And be done with it. Sheesh.

IMHO, Adobe has LOST the Linux market forever:

  • First, they admit Gimp is 90% of Photoshop.
  • Then they withdraw their beta program for FrameMaker (a natural candidate for Linux porting if I ever saw one)
  • Now, they get in a tiff with KIllustrator

Shame on you Adobe!

At least, they have the decency to drop this stupid case...

Re:Good thing to see (1)

eAndroid (71215) | more than 13 years ago | (#92064)

Or FreeKhand

or Xara K... don't know what I'm taking about? The greatest graphics program on earth... Xara X [] .

Good thing to see (1)

blazer1024 (72405) | more than 13 years ago | (#92065)

Well, it's good to see all they wanted is a name change. Shouldn't really be a big deal then, right? I mean really, what's in a name? They could always call it KDraw or something. All Adobe wanted to do was protect their trademark, and that make me feel a lot better about them.

Re:The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly... (2)

szcx (81006) | more than 13 years ago | (#92071)

I'll bet he would have quietly changed it and this would have never been an issue.

I bet he would have submitted a story to Slashdot about how The Man(TM) is trying to make him change his name.

D'oh! (5)

szcx (81006) | more than 13 years ago | (#92072)

Does that mean the Adobe Jihad is off? I just finished making my Adobe-as-Borg icon.

Re:Uh... (2)

Amokscience (86909) | more than 13 years ago | (#92074)

Which is the problem they are fixing. From what I recall of the original article and the way German lawyers work, Adobe didn't have any knowledge that this was occurring before the fact. The German lawyers went after KIllustrator on their own (on behalf of Adobe). Adobe is just now officially responding to the incident and they are acting reasonably and in a good PR way.

Moral of the Story (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 13 years ago | (#92075)

If your lawyers have rabies, keep them on a shorter leash. (I'm sure it sounds better in German.)

Translation (1)

sommere (105088) | more than 13 years ago | (#92084)

heh, "Kai-Uwe Sattler" translated to "Dr. Kai-Uwe upholsterer" from google... still the best translation system I've seen, but they really should do something so that things that look like names (something after a Dr that are still capitilized etc..) are not translated...


It's vector drawing (2)

jeti (105266) | more than 13 years ago | (#92085)

Illustrator is vector based and not rester based.

Re:Good thing to see (1)

_johnnyc (111627) | more than 13 years ago | (#92090)

I don't agree. If Killustrator has to change its name because it contains the word Illutsrator, then why would Kdraw be any different?

If you don't have money to fight this kind of legal action, then it may be the only thing to do. I think changing the name is an invitation to lawyers at software companies to keep on bullying the little guy

Re:Good thing to see (2)

friedo (112163) | more than 13 years ago | (#92094)

Well, it's important to remember that trademark disputes get murky when dealing with things that are already words. Photoshop and Coke weren't words already, Illustrator was.

Makes since (1)

Ghoser777 (113623) | more than 13 years ago | (#92095)

I could see similiar products with similiar names causing some user confusion (probably more on the non-linux user end). People might try to use Killustrator FAQ's and other resources to fix problems with Illustrator, or try to use Killustrator on OS's only supported by Illustrator, etc. It's just be easier if they choose another name. If eMachines lost their case to Apple about eMacs vs iMacs, then I think it's probably in Killustrator's author's best interests to change the name.


Re:I Wish Every Company Would Do this (1)

Tarpan (114764) | more than 13 years ago | (#92096)

Sure it might sound ugly, but i think it's nice that you know what is needed for it to run... /^K(.+)/ programs almost always needs KDE so then i know i can ignore them :)

Re:Lawyer as borg (3)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 13 years ago | (#92102)

This is legal in Germany. "Hey, you guys are breaking the law, and here's our fee for having told you. It's the same fee as if you'd called us up and said 'are we breaking any laws?'"

Re:Let's just call it KDraw! (3)

SuiteSisterMary (123932) | more than 13 years ago | (#92103)

Now, they get in a tiff with KIllustrator
Don't you mean 'the get in a .tif with Killustrator?' *rimshot*

Fair and Reasonable (4)

sagei (131421) | more than 13 years ago | (#92105)

I don't think it gets more fair than this. KIllustrator is grossly in violation of Adobe's trademark. Slashdotters all agreed on this on the previous article.
KIllustrator is a clone product of Illustrator, its the same type of product (software), doing the same thing (raster drawing). Of course the name is meant to capitalize on Adobe's product!
Now, Adobe has some courses of action. The one they are taking is by far the mildest and most polite. They need to protect their trademark. They need KIllustrator to get a new name. They can take this court, they can aim for monetary damages. They aren't.
I think we should applaud Adobe on this. They have to protect their trademark, after all. If nothing else, they are helping a KApplication get a better name.


Boy would THIS mess with the /. masses (5)

fobbman (131816) | more than 13 years ago | (#92106)

I just checked, and is available.

troll#1: "Bastards! They're trying to leech off of the name of Slashdot!"
troll#2: "Bastards! Slashdot is trying to crush innovation! 'Kay'-Slashdot is obviously very different than just 'Slashdot'!"

Re:The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly... (1)

SLi (132609) | more than 13 years ago | (#92108)

If they had just approached the author of KIllustrator and asked, "Would you please change your name?" I'll bet he would have quietly changed it and this would have never been an issue.

Would you change your name if Adobe asked you to?

Re:Hmm. (1)

DrHyde (134602) | more than 13 years ago | (#92109)

> US Trademark law was on Adobe's side ...

... and utterly irrelevant. Why oh why do merkans labour under the apprehension that their laws apply elsewhere? HINT: this happened in Germany.

Re:How about........ (4)

Laplace (143876) | more than 13 years ago | (#92115)

KINK - Killistrator Is Now KINK

as well as KINK - KINK Is Not KIllustrator.

Maybe Adobe is okay after all... (1)

pclminion (145572) | more than 13 years ago | (#92117)

My company [] directly competes with Adobe in certain arenas, so I'm a little biased against them, but this is a very liberal move on Adobe's part. One that I actually didn't expect them to make when I first heard of this.

The question is, what are Adobe's real motivations for this settlement? By settling they reserve their right to bring a suit in the future, while still getting KIllustrator to change its name.

It's a bit premature to judge, but either Adobe is beginning to fear free software, or they are beginning to embrace it. I'll be watching this closely now.

Re:Pronunciation (1)

xeno-cat (147219) | more than 13 years ago | (#92119)

This is exactly it. Kill-ustrator was not /just/ a close name designed to cause confusion in the market place, it was also a clever jab at the whole giant corporate ball of wax. It is representative of the types of clever and fun names developers give there projects and products in the OS/Free market ( GNU, WINE, MICO, et. all. ).

Unfortunatly the the law does not seem to find any humor or value worth protecting in this form of expression. OS/Free market can not protect itself in the way that the private/closed market participents can. In the U.S. at least, the system is designed to protect the private sector when it comes to issues like this. Most likely the law is as it is to protect the private sector from itself. These laws also seem to make excessivly brutal weapons against individuals as well.

Oh, well. I guess we will have to settle for a name that does not really convey the authors sentaments. But thanks any way Adobe for not suing this poor guy back into the stone age and other wise making his life a living hell.

Tough to argue this one (2)

ellem (147712) | more than 13 years ago | (#92120)

Adobe has done all the right things and then some!

I don't think we should all begin cheering wildly for "our" victory, but then I don't think there was much of a fight.

Re:Let's just call it KDraw! (2)

connorbd (151811) | more than 13 years ago | (#92122)

Who knows, maybe we'll see KPublish soon? (But please at least call it something vaguely cool like Kpage...)

I sort of find the name KIllustrator a bit weak anyway. I mean, let's be realistic -- the only K-program out there with a truly creative name is Konqueror.

KDraw is good. Karikature (better spelling) is a bit silly, but I like it. KVektor, anyone?


Re:Good thing to see (2)

connorbd (151811) | more than 13 years ago | (#92123)

I don't see a proper trademark there -- the *Draw name was around long ago. MacDraw, for example.

There's actually two basic types of graphics programs, y'see. Paint programs (like Photoshop, as it happens) deal with graphics at the pixel level. Draw programs (like Illustrator, Freehand, etc.) deal with vectors and bezier curves.


Re:Apple and Sagan (2)

connorbd (151811) | more than 13 years ago | (#92124)

The PowerMac 7100. They actually changed it to BHA and Sagan flipped out again when he found out what it stood for.

I think the same thing happened with the Dylan programming language and someone by the name of Robert Zimmerman who took exception...


Wait for the gaim ruling ... (1)

Pentagon13 (166309) | more than 13 years ago | (#92132)

The case that the gaim boys will be fighting will set precedent for all future lawsuits over this topic. KIllustrator (as well as any other linux programs with the same [potential] problem) should do nothing and await the outcome of the gaim trial. In my opinion, gaim probably has the best chance since they are so widely supported and used across the linux spectrum. Hopefully they win their battle, because it will go a long way to helping win the war.

Uh... (2)

EvlPenguin (168738) | more than 13 years ago | (#92133)

...they demand that KIllustrator gets a new name, but don't want to stop its distribution or development.

And by bringing this lawsuit up in the first place, and by forcing them to change their name, isn't that (at least temporarily) halting distrobution and development?

Pronunciation (2)

EvlPenguin (168738) | more than 13 years ago | (#92134)

How is Killustrator pronounced? If it is pronounced "K-Illustrator" then I could see cause for concern over copyright. If it's (and this is how I have been pronouncing it) "Kill-ustrator", then there should be no problem.

Anyone care to clarify?

Re:Cheers For Adobe (4)

EvlPenguin (168738) | more than 13 years ago | (#92135)

Well, ok, it may be nothing as compared to stopping development all together, but I think the issue goes deeper than a name. It's about control.

The distrubing part is that "illustrator" is a somewhat generic name, which does not specificlly indicate a piece of IP owned by Adobe Systems, Inc. Had this been a case of something like Kacrobat or Kphotoshop, then I would agree with their reasoning, maybe even say they're justified. But "illustrator" is just too generic.

Re:The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly... (1)

gus2000 (177737) | more than 13 years ago | (#92140)

According to the article, the author proposed a name change last week and the lawyers rejected such a solution. What is not know of course is whether the lawyers were acting overzealously or whether Adobe had told the lawyers to reject such an offer.

Call it KImaging (1)

rute_1 (190676) | more than 13 years ago | (#92152)

I think the new name should be KImaging. After all, it goes right along with "KOffice, KWord, KChart, Kivio"

If there is an owner to the copyrights of those names, they don't seem to care. :)

Re:I Wish Every Company Would Do this (3)

ichimunki (194887) | more than 13 years ago | (#92157)

More troubling than the GNU project using the name GNU on everything is the projects that use GNU but have nothing to do with the FSF (at least as far as I can see)-- like Gnutella or Gnucleus.

For the FSF to put GNU out there is to "brand" the software, which is certainly better than FSF or affixing Free to the front (which is way overdone already and would only lead to confusion).

the poetry of translation (2)

sv0f (197289) | more than 13 years ago | (#92160)

Did anyone else think that the Google translation of the German original was poetically mystifying,? It sounded like the pronouncements of a shy, conquering alien. Consider:

No costs are to arise for the KIllustrator developer

One wants to achieve an amicable agreement now.

Such a regulation - change of name against retreat of the warning

Adobe regrets now that [...] annoyance resulted to the KIllustator developer.

Re:Possible names (2)

11223 (201561) | more than 13 years ago | (#92161)

Hey, that Karicature one is pretty good... did you think of that? Where did it come from?

Possible names (4)

maddogsparky (202296) | more than 13 years ago | (#92164)



KDraw (already mentioned)





what is needed is a new recursive acronym (1)

cbowland (205263) | more than 13 years ago | (#92166)

How about changing the name to KINI?


Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.

Apple and Sagan (5)

evocate (209951) | more than 13 years ago | (#92168)

Does anyone remember this naming conflict [] between Apple and Dr. Carl Sagan? Apple used "Sagan" as an internal project code name, and the good doctor objected. Apple, being Apple, promptly changed the project name from "Sagan" to "Butthead Astronomer".

Wrong, wrong, wrong. (1)

Planesdragon (210349) | more than 13 years ago | (#92171)

Parody is one of the copyright exceptions that allow fair use. Copyright law has nearly *nothing* to do with Trademarks--in fact, there's no such thing as "fair use of trademark" at all. (Unless you use it to refer to the actual product, as in a review... and even then I'd check.)

Ever wonder why MAD magazine doesn't use real names?

Adobe had to do it (2)

ageitgey (216346) | more than 13 years ago | (#92176)

If Adobe doesn't take steps to protect their trademarks, in the future someone could claim that a past failure to defend them means they no longer control them. In other words, Adobe really had no choice.

Just because KIllustrator is free doesn't mean they can copy the Adobe program AND use it's name. Don't get mad at Adobe, they were between a rock and a hard place. I think this solution really works well for everyone. They COULD have sued KIllustrator out of existence. Lets be glad they responded so calmly the second time around and lets stop naming our free software by adding the letter of our desktop environment to the name of a trademarked program.

I'm just glad everything turned out so well.

Re:Pronunciation (1)

Fatal0E (230910) | more than 13 years ago | (#92181)

kill-istrator, it just sounds more funner! :)

Class act (2)

(H)elix1 (231155) | more than 13 years ago | (#92182)

This was SOO refreshing to see. Well done, Adobe.

Hmm. (3)

Juan Epstein (238683) | more than 13 years ago | (#92185)

All Adobe was just trying to protect their trademarked brand.
Your software may be free, but Adobe is a for-profit company.
Base your opinions upon whatever you like, but Adobe is just protecting whats theirs.
Are you people really naive enough to believe they have no basis to protect their IP rights? The names
Belong entirely to the company who trademarks the name "Illustrator". KDE should have known better.
To claim that Adobe was wrong is ridiculous. Clearly they have a legitimate complaint against KDE.
US Trademark law was on Adobe's side, and personally, I am glad to see Killustrator accepting responsibility for their acts.

Re:The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly... (1)

Tin Weasil (246885) | more than 13 years ago | (#92190)

It would depend on how they asked!
I see no problem with changing the name "Killustrator" to something like, say "KPhotoshop"

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly... (2)

Tin Weasil (246885) | more than 13 years ago | (#92191)

It's good to see Adobe being more civil, but...

If they had just approached the author of KIllustrator and asked, "Would you please change your name?" I'll bet he would have quietly changed it and this would have never been an issue.

Re:New Name (1)

CustomDesigned (250089) | more than 13 years ago | (#92193)

I recommend KIlluminator as the new name. After the illuminated manuscripts done by monks.

Watch out Mexico! (5)

rohar (253766) | more than 13 years ago | (#92194)

This is great and all, but I think all the people living in sun-dried brick structures are gonna be pissed about not being able to call their construction 'Adobe' anymore...

'I live in a.. ummm... ahh... KBrick house? no... GMud? ahh... whatever'

It's easy to write songs, you just sit down and write them.

Re:Good thing to see (1)

kbeast (255013) | more than 13 years ago | (#92195)

yeah, I agree, somewhat..I'm happy that Adobe has come to their senses a bit..but I still think they should let them keep the name... however, they could change the name to Kfuckadobe :)


Re:Let's just call it KDraw! (5)

suwain_2 (260792) | more than 13 years ago | (#92197)

Actually, I've gotta say that Adobe isn't half as bad as most other companies. All they wanted was for the KIllustrator to change the title which, you've gotta admit, is *very* similar. Confusingly similar, maybe not, but enough to make me think that maybe Adobe ported it...?

Most companies would be suing them and cursing the GPL, and accusing Linux of infringing on their trademarks...

As far as the other stuff you say, though... I think you're probably right about them losing the Linux market. Although, actually, if they ported PhotoShop to Linux, I'd use it. (Provided it was actually *affordable*; I know it's a "hugely powerful" tool, but ~$600?! I'll sacrifice my familiarity with PhotoShop and just use the GIMP for that price...)

Re:The translation is a blast! (1)

pdiaz (262591) | more than 13 years ago | (#92198)

yeah, yeah, its like it has been made by a machine or something....

Re:Wrong, wrong, wrong. (1)

Sarcasmooo! (267601) | more than 13 years ago | (#92201)

Well, my opinion is based on the EFF legal team's [] response to 'Barney's lawyers' which shot down their trademark case by defending it as parody also. And for the other genius who responded, it also discusses why criticizing a product with the intent of reducing it's sales is also not illegal. God forbid someone tell people that a product sucks.

Think you can't make even a small difference? (3)

Sarcasmooo! (267601) | more than 13 years ago | (#92202)

Sounds like Adobe's PR people pulled the plug on Adobe's legal team.

Now I can recover my furniture! (4)

infinite9 (319274) | more than 13 years ago | (#92210)

Dr. Kai-Uwe upholsterer

Well, I'm certainly pleased to know that there's now a Free solution for all my upholstery needs.

Re:I Wish Every Company Would Do this (1)

deaddrunk (443038) | more than 13 years ago | (#92216)

Yes they should have meaningful names that describe the application like errrr.....Acrobat.

Re:D'oh! (4)

haruharaharu (443975) | more than 13 years ago | (#92218)

Done in Photoshop, right?

ummm (1)

IAmTheGodYouHate (444084) | more than 13 years ago | (#92219)

why not just call it killustrate or something? I mean, a costly legal battle is not a desired thing, IMO... and it wouldn't be hard to just drop a couple of letters and change the name slightly to appease the corporate powers that be... I mean, bowing to the whims of a corporate entity isn't the best thing in the world, but is it better than spending a shitload of money in court? I think so.


Re:Uh... (5)

actiondan (445169) | more than 13 years ago | (#92220)

And by bringing this lawsuit up in the first place, and by forcing them to change their name, isn't that (at least temporarily) halting distrobution and development?

AFAIK it is still unclear whether Adobe were actually aware of the warning letter which was sent by the lawyers firm. (it never got as far as a lawsuit)

In Germany, law firms can send warning letters on another companies behalf and charge those they send them to for their time. The company for whom the warning is being sent is not neccessarlity aware that this has been done. There is more information on this in the earlier article [] , especially this posting []

No --- This is NOT a Trademark Infringement (1)

idonotexist (450877) | more than 13 years ago | (#92222)

Adobe looks so much like a white knight, now. "killustrator may continue" , "ok, you do not have to pay for the work of our attorney" ,and "oh, all that needs to happen is for killustrator to change its name."

What fools are Adobe? "Illustrator" is not a word to receive trademark protection because it not at all descriptive --- it is a generic term. For instance, "Word" could not receive trademark protection though it is utilized by Microsoft. "Hamburger" could not receive protection although it is utilized by McDonald's in its trademark. Moreover, if the mark is registered, registration itself does not grant protection.

Adobe, in my eyes, remains a party abusing the legal system.

Re:Good thing to see ... not (1)

Genoaschild (452944) | more than 13 years ago | (#92225)

Nonetheless, don't want to step down without a fight. Even if KDE doesn't, they can't just give in. Everytime someone has a conflict, they'll just bully GPL licensed products around until they get what they want. The more grounds they are fought on, the less likely this will happen.

Refreshing... (1)

Blue Aardvark House (452974) | more than 13 years ago | (#92226)

Finally, a relatively peaceful solution to a trademark infringement case. I do not think the intent was to steal Adobe's name, but rather to point out that it is a competing product.

The name "Illustrator" is trademarked. Changing the name represents a simple solution that fits the crime.

Best of all, they did not have to pay some outlandish fine.

Example: (1)

Blue Aardvark House (452974) | more than 13 years ago | (#92227)

There was a paintball marker (manufactured by Brass Eagle?) called the F1Illustrator.

No infringement there, despite the name. Completely different product.

KIllustrator..errr..KIllistrator (1)

ghack (454608) | more than 13 years ago | (#92231)

why not just call it KIllistrator. half of these butchr gremmar speling l33t trolls (yeyy! frist post!!) wont know the difference...

New Name (1)

CajunArson (465943) | more than 13 years ago | (#92248)

If they want a really original name, try: KSimon If you remember the old SNL skit: My name is Simon, and I like to do (sic) drawrings.. 8p
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