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Cruise Ship "Costa Concordia" Salvage Attempt To Go Ahead

samzenpus posted about a year ago | from the making-the-best-of-things dept.

Transportation 151

dryriver writes "A daring attempt to pull the shipwrecked Costa Concordia upright will go ahead on Monday, Italian officials have confirmed. The Civil Protection agency said the sea and weather conditions were right for the salvage attempt. Engineers have never tried to move such a huge ship so close to land. Thirty-two people died when the cruise ship hit rocks off the Tuscan island of Giglio in January 2012. It has been lying on its side ever since. Five people have already been convicted of manslaughter over the disaster, and the ship's captain, Francesco Schettino, is currently on trial accused of manslaughter and abandoning ship. The salvage operation is due to begin at 06:00 (04:00 GMT) on Monday, and it is being described as one of the largest and most daunting ever attempted. The head of the operation, Nick Sloane, told AFP news agency that it was now or never for the Costa Concordia, because the hull was gradually weakening and might not survive another winter. Engineers will try to roll the ship up using cables and the weight of water contained in huge metal boxes welded to the ship's sides — a process called parbuckling. This procedure must be done very slowly to prevent further damage to the hull, which has spent more than 18 months partially submerged in 50ft of water and fully exposed to the elements. The salvage project has so far cost more than 600m euros ($800m; £500m) and could cost a lot more by the time the operation is complete."

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Livestream (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861435)

You can watch the salvage attempt live here: http://www.deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/videozone/livestream/MV_LIVESTREAM_CostaConcordiaRechtop

Re:Livestream (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861665)

Reuters has one on their website.
Seems to be the source of most of the others.

And another... (5, Informative)

Guy From V (1453391) | about a year ago | (#44861453)

Neither of those were loading for me and/or seemed to be broken. This one works for me...just in case anyone needed more options: http://media.theage.com.au/national/selections/livestream-costa-concordia-salvage-4751321.html [theage.com.au]

I think it's country-specific (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861491)

In many cases broadcasting companies are only allowed to let domestic IPs access the stream even though practically every broadcasting company acquires access to the same stream. Here's one for Finland:
http://areena.yle.fi/tv/2032049
and for Sweden:
http://www.svt.se/nyheter/varlden/bargningen-av-costa-concordia-inleds-pa-morgonen

Happy monday! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861879)

Finland, Finland, Finland
The country where I want to be
Pony trekking or camping
Or just watching TV
Finland, Finland, Finland
It's the country for me

You're so near to Russia
So far from Japan
Quite a long way from Cairo
Lots of miles from Vietnam

Finland, Finland, Finland
The country where I want to be
Eating breakfast or dinner
Or snack lunch in the hall
Finland, Finland, Finland
Finland has it all

You're so sadly neglected
And often ignored
A poor second to Belgium
When going abroad

Finland, Finland, Finland
The country where I quite want to be
Your mountains so lofty
Your treetops so tall
Finland, Finland, Finland
Finland has it all

Oh focus on Finland friends

Finland, Finland, Finland
The country where I quite want to be
Your mountains so lofty
Your treetops so tall
Finland, Finland, Finland
Finland has it all, Finland has it all

Half a billion? (1, Funny)

mrspoonsi (2955715) | about a year ago | (#44861455)

For half that you could have had 100 sharks with frickin laser beams attached to their heads, they would have been quicker, not to mention more enjoyable to watch.

Re:Half a billion? (2, Funny)

dryriver (1010635) | about a year ago | (#44861481)

Crazy, crazy amount to spend, right? I wonder if this is an example of "Italian Efficiency"... =) =) =)

Re:Half a billion? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861529)

I think it has more to do with the fact that no salvage operation that even comes close in terms of size of the ship to be salvaged has ever been attempted before. Based on this article, the South African guy leading the operation is quite the character:
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/09/13/world/costa-concordia-nick-sloane/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

To quote: "..file on his phone or computer marked "blow jobs" with photos of all the ships he has detonated..."

Re:Half a billion? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861547)

The salvage is being done by Smit International from the Netherlands, a country widely regarded as efficient. Fpor more information Wikipedia article "Costa Concordia disaster", paragraph "Salvage" is a good start.

Re:Half a billion? (-1, Offtopic)

Jerry Smith (806480) | about a year ago | (#44861817)

The salvage is being done by Smit International from the Netherlands, a country widely regarded as efficient. Fpor more information Wikipedia article "Costa Concordia disaster", paragraph "Salvage" is a good start.

A COMPANY reagarded as efficient. The country is... well, tomorrow the government will present new plans to recover the economy. None of the plans can be considered 'efficient'.

Re:Half a billion? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863055)

Actually, only the first salvage activities (defuelling) were performed by Smit International. The salvage operation of the whole ship is being performed by a consortium of Titan Salvage (USA) and Micoperi (Italy)

Re:Half a billion? (1)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year ago | (#44862523)

500 engineers don't come cheap. Neither does all the fuel and equipment they'll need.

Re:Half a billion? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863039)

Crazy, crazy amount to spend, right? I wonder if this is an example of "Italian Efficiency"... =) =) =)

read this idiot:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/industries/banking/article3550524.ece

Re:Half a billion? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861771)

The salvage project has so far cost more than 600m euros ($800m; £500m) and could cost a lot more

the ship originally cost "only" 450 million euro ($570 million, £372 million)..

so how much is the environment in that particular spot worth again? cut 'er up, haul it out.. before wildlife move in to the vacant ship, cuz then you'd have a whole different set of hippies screaming to protect that new habitat.

$800 million is crazy ridiculous to spend on a salvage operation -- and it's not even done yet.

Re:Half a billion? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861933)

Yes, i could've done it for 200 million. I would have used a million or 2 to buy pingpong balls and inject them to the ship to make it float. Then had couple of tug boats to pull it where ever.

Re:Half a billion? (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44862135)

Yes, i could've done it for 200 million. I would have used a million or 2 to buy pingpong balls and inject them to the ship to make it float. Then had couple of tug boats to pull it where ever.

Yes, but you can't patent that approach, so who's going to build a ping-pong-ball injection rig?

Re:Half a billion? (1)

bobbied (2522392) | about a year ago | (#44863049)

The Mythbusters perhaps? Didn't they do that using just a water pump and some hoses?

this has me wondering (0, Troll)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about a year ago | (#44861511)

Why all this effort to refloat her? As has been pointed out, she's been partially and asymmetrically submerged for the better part of two years, surely it'd be easier to just send in the divers with cutting torches or shaped charges, split the hull, and float her off in sections on barges (as they ended up doing with MSC Napoli)?

Is this a dress rehearsal for RMS Titanic? If so, I've got news: she's been under for 101 years, is in far worse condition and is apparently split into at least two sections.

Is there something aboard Costa Concordia that we shouldn't know about? (yes, I'm thinking of a certain book)

Either way, I personally think the only decent thing to do here is to leave her be, apart from draining off any remaining fuel oil, as a marine grave marker, and let the seas reclaim her. What's happening right now is a desecration.

Re:this has me wondering (0)

JockTroll (996521) | about a year ago | (#44861533)

Why shaped charges and torches? Slow and lame. Detonate a nuke on it, 150 kt will be fine. I'd say three to four warheads will clean up the place nicely. Oh, wait, there's an inhabited island near by, nuke the island first so the poor folks on it don't get radiation poisoning. Six airburst in the 200 kt range will do it, then another 6 penetrating warheads at 500 kt yield to break up the island so it won't pose a hazard to navigation anymore. There's nothing you can't solve with nuclear weapons. They tend to settle the argument just fine.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861663)

But do it from orbit, just to be sure!

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861537)

Is there something aboard Costa Concordia that we shouldn't know about?

Like what? More bodies?

Re:this has me wondering (5, Informative)

dryriver (1010635) | about a year ago | (#44861557)

It is suspected that the bodies of 2 more people who are still "missing" may be found somewhere inside the ship when it is refloated. RIP to those who died in this disaster. Nobody goes on a modern cruiseship these days expecting to be "shipwrecked" or "Titanic'd" within the first hours of the cruise..

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861631)

Thanks for the reply, I had no idea what the mystery/book the original poster was on about. This is the second time I had even heard of the accident - news coverage of the event wasn't so great here.

Anyway, for what it's worth, my condolences to anybody who lost family or friends in the accident.

Re:this has me wondering (-1, Troll)

epine (68316) | about a year ago | (#44861677)

Nobody goes on a modern cruiseship these days expecting to be "shipwrecked" or "Titanic'd" within the first hours of the cruise..

Certainly none of the people living in the Disney World bubble of credit card reward points.

The autonomous and self-defined individual goes through life expecting the unexpected, but then I suppose this type of person is less attractive to lying about in floating cocoons of immaculate white paint. We might choose a less passive adventure.

Re:this has me wondering (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861947)

Oh fuck off you sanctimonious twat.

Re:this has me wondering (4, Informative)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about a year ago | (#44861955)

Wow, way to be a condescending douche. "The autonomous and self-defined individual"? As if there is only one kind of person in the world, "the good kind". Anyone who wants to kick back and relax on vacation...well passive adventures are for pussies, amirite? Jeez modded up to +5, too. How shameful.

Re:this has me wondering (-1, Flamebait)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44862215)

Wow, way to be a condescending douche. "The autonomous and self-defined individual"? As if there is only one kind of person in the world, "the good kind".

I didn't get that from that at all. What I got is that there's only two kinds of people in a shipwreck, those who can make decisions for themselves, and those who are at substantial risk of dying while they wait for someone else to make decisions for them. I watched a documentary on the incident and many people were just sitting around waiting for someone to save them.

Now personally, I happen to feel that maintaining those people's lives is a net loss for the human race, because they'll never contribute anything of import. These are not capable, creative people. These are chair-warming wal-mart shoppers. They chose a vacation with maximum environmental impact and minimum ethical value and then many of them died for it.

well passive adventures are for pussies, amirite?

To me it's more about the impact. Also, there was no adventure involved whatsoever until the ship crashed, at which point these people proved their lack of worth. When the chips are down, they will look for salsa.

Jeez modded up to +5, too. How shameful.

Is there really anything wrong with the community agreeing that cruises are for the weak and stupid? The truth is that most cruises involve oppression. For less money you could patronize a beachfront resort, which if you look around can belong to the same family that's cooking your food. You'll be just as close to the ocean, but you can actually swim in it if you like. And you won't be decks above someone who is literally not permitted to come up for air, or indeed ever be seen by a passenger. You might actually do something instead of just sit on a fat ass shoveling food into it, and going shopping.

Cruise ships are just another example of conspicuous consumption, and if you want a medal for doing nothing, perhaps you should become a drone operator. I hear they give them out at the least provocation.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year ago | (#44862439)

You really should open your mind. Cruises aren't for me in general, and for most of the reasons you describe. I get bored and I'm not the type to enjoy a tour bus when you could instead be more hands on. That said, people entertain themselves in different ways.

I know one guy who is very hard working, well educated, and owns his own construction business. He is definitely "contributing something of import" to society. But for reasons that escape me, he loves cruises. He loves the 10 days of doing nothing, not worrying about bids or schedules, turning his brain off with alcohol and too much food, and floating in a pool. He loves the stupid air-conditioned bus rides through places he's never been and would otherwise never go. He loves complaining about the service and the price of booze and the rigged casinos. He goes on these stupid things over and over again.

Even I've had fun on one. We had something of a family reunion on one, and it was a blast. But in all fairness, it was my cousins that made it a blast, and we probably would have had fun in Gitmo. And my dad bought us a cruise for our honeymoon, and it was fun too - but mostly because it wasn't really a standard cruise... the boat simply sailed overnight to Bermuda and then stayed docked for 4 days. It was more of a floating hotel - we hardly were on the boat except to sleep.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44862487)

Even I've had fun on one. We had something of a family reunion on one, and it was a blast. But in all fairness, it was my cousins that made it a blast, and we probably would have had fun in Gitmo. And my dad bought us a cruise for our honeymoon, and it was fun too - but mostly because it wasn't really a standard cruise... the boat simply sailed overnight to Bermuda and then stayed docked for 4 days. It was more of a floating hotel - we hardly were on the boat except to sleep.

This is in essence my basic problem with cruises when coupled with the way that the employees are treated, just one step up from galley slaves. It's irrelevant that you're on a boat because the boat is so big, indeed, dangerously big. It would be smarter in every way to just pick one nice place to have your vacation, and have it there.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year ago | (#44862607)

just one step up from galley slaves.

Most of them seemed to be very young 20-somethings having a bit of life adventure, but they definitely are not paid very well. If you think their pay sucks, you should see the pay of workers at the factory where they made the parts for the computer you are writing on.

It would be smarter in every way to just pick one nice place to have your vacation, and have it there.

Me? Sure. Like I said, I agree. But I know people who have done both and prefer cruises. Some of these people definitely do not match the waste-of-life stereotype that you paint.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

csirac (574795) | about a year ago | (#44862493)

Now personally, I happen to feel that maintaining those people's lives is a net loss for the human race, because they'll never contribute anything of import. These are not capable, creative people. These are chair-warming wal-mart shoppers.

How on earth did you reach this world view? Some of the most brilliant people I know are less than fully functioning human beings... I'm reminded of the famous mathematician Paul Erdos [wikipedia.org] , a person whose achievements are truly remarkable but he famously had to ask one of his hosts once to close a window for him... apparently in the middle of one rainy night, he couldn't figure it out how to close it for himself. If he's a chair-warming waste of space, who isn't?

Re:this has me wondering (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44862745)

How on earth did you reach this world view?

You know, I appreciate pedantry when it adds something to the conversation, but not when you're just trying to appear fucking clever. But all you're doing is campaigning for stupid, boring comments full of disclaimers. I could have sprinkled my comment with many "most of"s and "many of"s. But you're also missing the fucking point. Paul Erdos, or any other disabled individual, could receive the same treatment on land and without oppressing anyone. I fail to see how you justify ignoring the heart of the argument, which is that it's not necessary to do this form of vacationing on a cruise ship, which is meant to be as little like a boat as possible. Why not just have a vacation in a fucking mall?

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44862953)

I fail to see how you justify ignoring the heart of the argument, which is that it's not necessary to do this form of vacationing on a cruise ship, which is meant to be as little like a boat as possible. Why not just have a vacation in a fucking mall?

Okay. You hate cruises. People who go on them should die. Especially the weak. We get it.

Now that's not a boring comment is it? Maybe it is, since it wasn't made by you. Which does seem to be the deciding factor as to whether something/one is worthwhile or not: whether or not you approve of it/them.

Re:this has me wondering (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44863605)

Now that's not a boring comment is it? Maybe it is, since it wasn't made by you. Which does seem to be the deciding factor as to whether something/one is worthwhile or not: whether or not you approve of it/them.

Well, fucking duh. We all have our opinions as to who should live and who should die. I consider myself basically moral because I personally wouldn't kill any of them unless they're in the process of threatening the life of another, but that's just another subjective judgment call.

In short, my logical framework states that if someone puts themselves in a dangerous situation from which they are not prepared to escape should it go all pear-shaped, they deserve to die. And they double-extra deserve to die if that situation is predicated upon the suffering of others, as is the typical cruise. So at least I'm basing this opinion based on some kind of logic. But of course, in typical squishy meatbag fashion, that logic is justified (or not) by emotion at some level. That's because I'm human.

If your goal was to point that out, congratulations! You're correct. If you had some other goal, I'm at a loss to understand what it might have been, or why you might have thought it was worthwhile.

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863955)

We all have our opinions as to who should live and who should die.

Well, I believe that you believe that we all have these opinions. But we all don't.

Re:this has me wondering (4, Insightful)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year ago | (#44862679)

What I got is that there's only two kinds of people in a shipwreck, those who can make decisions for themselves, and those who are at substantial risk of dying while they wait for someone else to make decisions for them. I watched a documentary on the incident and many people were just sitting around waiting for someone to save them.

Actually four kinds of people: those too dumb to leave when they're in actual danger, those smart enough to get out of danger, those smart enough to know they're not in danger and wait for rescue, and those stupid enough to have the mindset "do something, anything, even if it's wrong." HHGTG is right: Don't panic. Nothing is more dangerous than panic.

Whether to wait or act depends on the situation.

Re:this has me wondering (4, Informative)

LordLimecat (1103839) | about a year ago | (#44863449)

Im not sure how you can miss "condescending" in a statement like
I suppose this type of person is less attractive to lying about in floating cocoons of immaculate white paint. We might choose a less passive adventure.

Is there really anything wrong with the community agreeing that cruises are for the weak and stupid?

Yes. Its the same mindframe that leads to racism: Anyone who doesnt look like / act like / enjoy the same things as me, is inferior to me. Its self-centered pride to the extreme, and its astonishing youd have the nerve to try to defend it.

For less money you could patronize a beachfront resort, which if you look around can belong to the same family that's cooking your food.

Gosh, heres a shocker, maybe someone has done beach vacations for years and wants to be on a boat! Maybe theyre older, retired, and not as able to move as when they were younger, and want a quieter vacation! They must be weak, lazy, and stupid, I guess.

Cruise ships are just another example of conspicuous consumption, and if you want a medal for doing nothing

By your logic, so is going to a beachfront resort. Shopping, lazing about, how wasteful. Im sure youre a blast at parties.

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44862787)

"The autonomous and self-defined individual," and similar phrases are sociopath-code for "sociopath." This way others know to join in . . . just watch.

Re:this has me wondering (2)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year ago | (#44861997)

Did you miss all the sex meetup rooms where they sell ethanol-based stress-reducing libations?

Re:this has me wondering (1)

dunkelfalke (91624) | about a year ago | (#44862163)

How do you expect the unexpected? By the very definition of these words it would be an oxymoron.

Re:this has me wondering (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44862475)

How do you expect the unexpected? By the very definition of these words it would be an oxymoron.

No one expects their ship to wreck, but the ship carries lifeboats anyway. No one expects the captain of their ship to abandon without seeing to the safety of the passengers, but that's what happened, and some of the people who weren't prepared for that eventuality died. You expect the unexpected by expecting something unexpected to happen, and then being prepared to deal with it when it happens. Yeah, nobody wants the job of protecting their own life while on vacation, we go on vacation to get away from considerations like those, but when they turn up you can't just ignore them. That's what the captain of the ship did so long until he panicked and ran away like a rat deserting a sinking ship, which is precisely what he was. But it's also what some of the passengers on the ship did so long that they died.

By definition, we must expect the unexpected. We must expect that we shall have to deal with emerging situations as they develop. Otherwise, when a surprising situation appears, we stand around holding ourselves up.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

mark-t (151149) | about a year ago | (#44863009)

What I don't get about this is what's so horribly wrong with a captain abandoning the ship?

I mean, seriously.... do they expect a captain to just go down with the ship and simply die if something entirely unexpected happens to the ship?

Re:this has me wondering (5, Insightful)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year ago | (#44863289)

What I don't get about this is what's so horribly wrong with a captain abandoning the ship?

He's supposed to be the one organizing the evacuation efforts. He's the one people are reporting the condition of the ship to. He's in charge of the stupid ship. If he leaves, you have a major organizational change on the ship at the worst possible time. He should not go down with the ship, but he should be one of the last ones off.

Re:this has me wondering (4, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44863419)

What I don't get about this is what's so horribly wrong with a captain abandoning the ship?

International maritime law prohibits the captain abandoning the ship before evacuating the passengers. Their lives are his responsibility. It's equivalent to a bus driver leaving a bus full of passengers teetering on the edge of a precipice and then just running away without trying to get them out.

In addition, in this case the captain sat around holding his dick and pretending that the ship wasn't sinking for quite some time before he even ran away.

I mean, seriously.... do they expect a captain to just go down with the ship and simply die if something entirely unexpected happens to the ship?

Nothing unexpected happened to the ship. What happened is precisely what you would expect to happen if you drive a ship into an area clearly marked as too shallow and hazardous.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

tburkhol (121842) | about a year ago | (#44863545)

What I don't get about this is what's so horribly wrong with a captain abandoning the ship?

He's allowed to leave; he doesn't have to go down with the ship in the event of every accident. But he's also supposed to be the most capable and informed person on the boat and the most qualified to organize evacuation efforts. It's his responsibility and obligation to do everything he can to ensure the safety of people who have entrusted their lives to his judgement.

A captain abandoning his still-occupied ship is like a homeowner sneaking out the back without telling his guests that the kitchen is on fire.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Captain Hook (923766) | about a year ago | (#44863109)

But it's also what some of the passengers on the ship did so long that they died.

Do you have evidence of passengers just waiting around until they died? as opposed to being immediately trapped and unable to help themselves short of diving equipment and possibly cutting gear for getting through closed doors/debris?

Re:this has me wondering (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about a year ago | (#44863373)

Do you have evidence of passengers just waiting around until they died?

If you haven't seen any of the documentaries on the subject, that might seem like a completely reasonable question. Hint: it isn't. You could also find this out from other sources. Do your basic research before asking questions.

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863837)

Do you have evidence of passengers just waiting around until they died?

If you haven't seen any of the documentaries on the subject, that might seem like a completely reasonable question. Hint: it isn't. You could also find this out from other sources. Do your basic research before asking questions.

It's your point. You get to defend it. No one's gonna go looking it up for you, Mr. I-don't-have-time-to-show-my-evidence. Try again.

Re:this has me wondering (2)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year ago | (#44863383)

Indeed some of the fatalities were people trying to help others to safely evacuate. Francis Servel died after giving his life vest to his wife, who could not swim. Russel Terence Rebello was a Filipino waiter who stayed onboard to help with the evacuation, but then fell to his death when the list became too severe. Many died inside the ship because they followed the crews' orders to cross the ship as it was capsizing.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

dunkelfalke (91624) | about a year ago | (#44863515)

Well, actually it is reasonable to expect that a ship might wreck so carrying lifeboats is a good idea. Expecting the unexpected would be carrying space suits just in case the ship would fly.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#44862661)

Expecting the unexpected could mean that you expect something to happen that you couldn't expect... not necessarily that you expect the specific unexpected event itself... just that you expect some specific unexpected event to occur.

Which, of course, still makes it a completely useless piece of advice beyond "Don't let your guard down. Ever."

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about a year ago | (#44862675)

Swiss army knife.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Rob the Bold (788862) | about a year ago | (#44863971)

Swiss army knife.

These days, they might take that away at the metal detectors. I think duct tape is still ok.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Rob the Bold (788862) | about a year ago | (#44863073)

The autonomous and self-defined individual goes through life expecting the unexpected, but then I suppose this type of person is less attractive to lying about in floating cocoons of immaculate white paint.

Hold on a sec. Is it appropriate to evoke some Kantian ideal of living one's own life while simultaneously deriding those who choose something else for themselves? If a person is free to choose, mustn't others be free to choose even what you don't approve of?

Re: this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863877)

"Nobody goes on a modern cruiseship these days expecting to be "shipwrecked" or "Titanic'd" within the first hours of the cruise.."

Niether did the passengers on the Titanic. Both accidents were caused by the bravado of the navigation officers. Which in turn was caused by the culture of the respective shipping companies; Costa Cruises and White Star Line. Good seamanship says you don't go steaming full speed into an ice field nor do you go 'show-boating' along a rocky coastline. Hubris will hole you below the waterline

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861543)

I wager the people of Isola del Giglio would like it removed. The wiki article is fairly informative. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Concordia [wikipedia.org]

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861549)

Either way, I personally think the only decent thing to do here is to leave her be, apart from draining off any remaining fuel oil, as a marine grave marker, and let the seas reclaim her. What's happening right now is a desecration.

You don't think she's fucking ugly like that? And an environmental disaster even after the fuel has been drained?

Besides, all the work required to chop her up would be an order of magnitude more dangerous than the ship graveyards in India where the West happily sends junk ships to be chopped up because doing it here would either be too dangerous or cost too much. Daily fatalities on each ship there are something we turn a blind eye to and the poverty there ensures that there despite the dangers is no shortage of cheap labor. Ships are pretty fucking hard to scrap in any "good" way. Unlike buildings, they cannot be demolished so if they're not chopped up at great human cost in India, they're usually towed out to sea and sunk because there's no other option.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

russotto (537200) | about a year ago | (#44861981)

Besides, all the work required to chop her up would be an order of magnitude more dangerous than the ship graveyards in India where the West happily sends junk ships to be chopped up because doing it here would either be too dangerous or cost too much. Daily fatalities on each ship there are something we turn a blind eye to and the poverty there ensures that there despite the dangers is no shortage of cheap labor.

It can't cost that much to bring in another ship full of people from the third world desperate for work. Build a little temporary walled-off town to supply any needed services, and it's simple enough to continue to turn a blind eye to the conditions.

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44862321)

It can't cost that much to bring in another ship full of people from the third world desperate for work. Build a little temporary walled-off town to supply any needed services, and it's simple enough to continue to turn a blind eye to the conditions.

That could actually be a perfectly valid alternative solution. Cruise ships often have crews from the developing world (especially the Philippines) so maybe there aren't that many legal hurdles either for such a salvage operation. The biggest problem might be how to continue turning a blind eye if fatalities occur much closer to us than India. I recall an interview with a manager at one such ship graveyard in Alang, India; he proclaimed that work is very safe now since every worker has been given a helmet.

Re:this has me wondering (5, Informative)

opus_magnum (1688810) | about a year ago | (#44861551)

Why all this effort to refloat her? As has been pointed out, she's been partially and asymmetrically submerged for the better part of two years, surely it'd be easier to just send in the divers with cutting torches or shaped charges, split the hull, and float her off in sections on barges (as they ended up doing with MSC Napoli)?

Doing that in a marine sanctuary would have a significant environmental impact.

Re:this has me wondering (4, Informative)

peragrin (659227) | about a year ago | (#44861641)

this is it exactly.

the only reason why she is getting floated out is because cutting her up as she sits would trash the local environment completely. just sitting as she is is doing enough damage.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about a year ago | (#44862659)

um... you should see what they had to build underwater. What they are doing is having signifigant environmental impact already. There are enormous steel girders underneath her supporting her weight as they roll her out onto them. They aren't cutting her in half because she contains huge amounts of diesel fuel and oil.

Re:this has me wondering (2)

jandrese (485) | about a year ago | (#44862765)

The fuel and oil were pumped out ages ago. The reason why they're not cutting it up is the Italian government said no.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864009)

Are you sure it isn't because she might be repaired and put back in service? For less than the cost of building a new ship considering that the costs of removing her have to be borne anyway.

Some ships that have had everything except the iron hull destroyed in a fire have been put back in service. The most (in)famous example is the Scandinavian Star since ~150 passengers died in the fire which was either lit by a pyromaniac who died in the fire but got the blame for it posthumously - or if you believe investigative reporters more than incompetent cops - lit by crew that got paid to do it as part of an insurance scam. Personally, I would not have been able to go on a vacation on that ship knowing that the cabins and aisles had been packed with bodies that had died from smoke inhalation. The number of fatalities on the Costa Concordia was so small - especially considering her much bigger size - that there would be less of a stigma if she was put back in service (compare with 150 passengers of a total of ~400 on the Scandinavian Star).

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Tastecicles (1153671) | about a year ago | (#44861759)

oh, yes, I'm sure they had the same concerns regarding the disposal of the MSC Napoli and its proximity to Lyme Bay. ::rolleyes::.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year ago | (#44861877)

I see your MSC Napoli and raise you an SS Richard Montgomery. :)

Re:this has me wondering (5, Insightful)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about a year ago | (#44861561)

Is this a dress rehearsal for RMS Titanic?

I'm curious as to what makes you think it might be.

Is there something aboard Costa Concordia that we shouldn't know about? (yes, I'm thinking of a certain book)

Uh... the Necronomicon?

What's happening right now is a desecration.

Why? We don't leave mangled wrecks of cars by the side of the road. Wouldn't it be a massive hazard to shipping to leave it where it is and let it get slowly chipped to bits by the sea?

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861589)

The book in question be _Raise The Titanic_ ?

Re:this has me wondering (5, Informative)

sjames (1099) | about a year ago | (#44861599)

RTFA!

They want to keep the tons of rotting food, fuel, and who knows what else in the ship for environmental reasons. It's also a lot easier and safer to cut up something of that size in drydock.

Re:this has me wondering (5, Interesting)

tburkhol (121842) | about a year ago | (#44861851)

It's also a lot easier and safer to cut up something of that size in drydock.

Ships of this size are rarely dismantled in a drydock. Usually they're run up on the beach at Alang or Chittagong and cut apart, mostly by hand. You can actually see these operations in google maps. Check the satellite view of Alang, Gujarat, India, and you'll see dozens of ships in all stages of disassembly.

Re:this has me wondering (1, Informative)

gbjbaanb (229885) | about a year ago | (#44861985)

Shiver me surprised! well, not that surprised as there's always a market for the cheapest way to solve a problem, even though I would have thought the scrap value of the metal would be worth something.

You weren't wrong when you said dozens [goo.gl]

Re:this has me wondering (4, Informative)

mcgrew (92797) | about a year ago | (#44862599)

I don't know why you used a shortened link, but I hit it despite the possibility it might be goatse. Here's where that link takes you: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Alang,+Gujarat,+India&hl=en&ll=21.401534,72.199316&spn=0.023614,0.027723&geocode=+&hnear=Alang,+Bhavnagar,+Gujarat,+India&t=h&z=15 [google.co.uk]

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Derek Pomery (2028) | about a year ago | (#44863179)

Well, some blogs and such don't play nice with long links.
Also people sometimes needs to copy and paste them.
As such, google offers a link shortening service right in google maps (click the chain link icon).

Note the url has /maps/ in it - he couldn't send you to something evil unless it was on google maps, which I suppose there might be stuff here and there.

He could also have trimmed some of the junk in the URL tho...
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=21.401534,72.199316&t=h&z=15 [google.co.uk]

Re:this has me wondering (2)

photonic (584757) | about a year ago | (#44862011)

The only problem in this case is that it will be impossible to tow the refloated ship to India or some other country where they have a liberal view on labour safety. As far as I know, it will be towed to one of the nearby big harbours (Genua, Livorno or Civitavecchia?). I don't know how they will do the actual dismantling there.

Re:this has me wondering (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44862235)

how do they get the really large ship i.e. tankers etc that far up the beach. Do they just sail flat out towards the coast and then let the ship plough on until it comes to rest?

Re:this has me wondering (2)

Ly4 (2353328) | about a year ago | (#44862981)

how do they get the really large ship i.e. tankers etc that far up the beach. Do they just sail flat out towards the coast and then let the ship plough on until it comes to rest?

Yes: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ship+breaking+beaching [youtube.com]

Collisions are an obvious hazard: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTDV2BqfOVg [youtube.com]

Re:this has me wondering (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year ago | (#44862521)

In fairness, he did say "easier and safer", not "cheaper".

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861627)

People of the island wants the wreckage gone, it is hazardous and is driving tourists away. (If you don't count the initial surge) I think we as a humanity should clean more places not less. How is that desecration?

You might be right about splitting the boat, but I'm sure the engineers who came up with this idea has looked on to it.

Is it comfortable? (5, Insightful)

Hognoxious (631665) | about a year ago | (#44861633)

Why all this effort to refloat her? As has been pointed out, she's been partially and asymmetrically submerged for the better part of two years, surely it'd be easier to just send in the divers with cutting torches or shaped charges, split the hull, and float her off in sections on barges (as they ended up doing with MSC Napoli)?

Why are you speaking up now?

I'm sure the bumbling amateurs who are making it up as they go along could have benefited from your vast knowledge and experience if only you'd bothered to share them earlier.

You're a hoarder, that's what you are.

Re:this has me wondering (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863259)

Is this a dress rehearsal for RMS Titanic? If so, I've got news: she's been under for 101 years, is in far worse condition and is apparently split into at least two sections.
 
Just about as much as every experiment with stem cells and degenerative diseases is "dress rehearsal" for curing Steven Hawking and Michael J. Fox.
 
How do people like you get modded up?

Re:this has me wondering (4, Informative)

bobbied (2522392) | about a year ago | (#44863271)

Seriously? Have you not been reading the new stories on this over the last 2 years?

The issue is the environmental impact of both the fuel (largely removed) and other things like engine oil, coolant and sewage which may still be aboard. The ship came to rest in what is said to be a sensitive environmental area. I suspect that the insurance company would be on the hook for any damage caused by leaking oil, sewage or anything else that might still be in the ship. Also, the ship sits in about 40 feet of water on the very edge of a 200 Foot trench. If slips off, it will be MUCH harder to clean up the mess. Diving in 20-40 feet is much less difficult and time consuming than when you go over 100 feet and have to start thinking about using helium breathing mixes and such.

They are doing the least risky thing they can come up with. Right the ship, partially re-float it and haul it off to be scrapped some place else where it will be easier, safer and/or less likely to be a problem for the environment.

Your suggestion to just chop it up and haul it off in bite sized chunks might indeed be cheaper, but there are a number of issues with that approach.

Watch It live : (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44861515)

http://nieuws.vtm.be/buitenland/60408-live-berging-costa-concordia

It's an Italian thing (4, Funny)

RivenAleem (1590553) | about a year ago | (#44861567)

Re:It's an Italian thing (0)

dryriver (1010635) | about a year ago | (#44861575)

Ha ha ha ha... Made me laugh...

Re:It's an Italian thing (1)

squeeze69 (756427) | about a year ago | (#44863159)

32 died that day.

You do know the welded metal tanks... (1)

rmdingler (1955220) | about a year ago | (#44861843)

are merely an extension of the McDuck, et al. sunken vessel refloatation innovation?

Cost of salvage Cost of replacement?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44862213)

Wait it cost 600 million usd so far in salvage without even being rited?? I'm fairly certain I could build a similar ship for less than 800 million..

Any ship aficionados please report in on what will be done with this ship, will it be dry docked and repaired? How much will that cost? Sent to India to be torn down for scrap? How much does it cost to build one of these anyways?

Re:Cost of salvage Cost of replacement?? (1)

matfud (464184) | about a year ago | (#44862531)

scrapped

Re:Cost of salvage Cost of replacement?? (4, Insightful)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#44862709)

I'm fairly sure the cost of a new ship and the cost of salvage have absolutely nothing to do with each other. It's like saying "Why both removing the tree that fell on my roof? It's cheapest just to plant a new tree!" That's what the Costa Concordia is right now... a tree that fell on the roof. It needs to be chopped up and hauled away for scrap and they're trying to do it without causing more damage to the roof (which is largely the marine environment and tourism in this bad analogy).

Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44862549)

Why putting that pile of rusty metal upright?

Can't they just dismantle it piece by piece?

Re:Why? (2)

Elledan (582730) | about a year ago | (#44862907)

The area the Costa Concordia is in is a protected area, with fragile species living there. Dismantling it in place would cause damage to the marine life there, not to mention the possibility of pollution. It's far better scrapped in a controlled environment.

Re:Why? (1)

bobbied (2522392) | about a year ago | (#44863451)

Two things say it's better to right the ship, partially re-float it and haul it off.

First, there are likely many gallons of oils, fuels and hazardous materials aboard this ship that would be released when you chop up a ship like this. Yes, they have removed as much of this stuff as they can, but there is no way to get it all with the ship underwater.

Second, the ship sits on the very edge of a trench that is a few hundred feet deep. If you start chopping up the ship and things start down into that channel, it would be a *really* expensive problem to deal with. Diving in water less than 100' deep is dangerous, but when you go above 100' things get much more expensive and technically challenging. Best just move the whole thing to someplace where it's a less dangerous.

Where I think they are likely being way too cautious with this effort and should likely have been done last year, I cannot fault them for the plan of partially re-floating the ship and towing it off. The environmental concerns may be a bit over stated, but I'm sure the risk of not doing this right is a serious concern both legally and financially.

Interesting. But... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863143)

I'm interested in seeing this floating unfold.

But, what I'd really like to know/see here on Slashdot is how exactly they are streaming this event on the web. From the cameras in use to the uplinks, to the media server software, to the CDN, everything. Basically a how-to for efficiently and cost effectively broadcasting a HD stream from a remote location to millions of live viewers.

News for nerds. Stuff that matters.

Re:Interesting. But... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864073)

"Engineers are hard at working righting a fragile, grounded vessel using methods never before employed on this scale in the final stage of a months-long effort that including novel seabed modification."

"Wait, this just in. There's a guy setting up a webcam over there! Screw this boat stuff!

Partially submerged (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863743)

I would think that most ships spend most of their lives partially submerged.

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