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Belgium Investigates Suspected Cyber Spying By Foreign State

samzenpus posted about a year ago | from the usual-suspect dept.

Privacy 158

First time accepted submitter julf writes "The Belgian newspaper De Standaard reports that in an internal investigation, Belgacom, the mostly state-owned telecoms operator in Belgium, discovered evidence that the NSA has been listening in (Dutch) on the Belgacom network since 2011. From the Reuters article: 'Belgium said on Monday it was investigating suspected foreign state espionage against its main telecoms company, which is the top carrier of voice traffic in Africa and the Middle East, and a newspaper pointed the finger at the United States. Federal prosecutors said in a statement that the former state telecoms monopoly Belgacom had filed a complaint in July about the hacking of several servers and computers. "The inquiry has shown that the hacking was only possible by an intruder with significant financial and logistic means," they said.'"

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Country spies on other country (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863927)

Story at 11. *Yawn.*

Re:Country spies on other country (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863951)

Unlike the other recent revelations, this is actually the NSA's job.

Re:Country spies on other country (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864043)

I guess that makes it ok then!

USA! USA! USA!

Re:Country spies on other country (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864083)

As an American citizen, I certainly want them doing this.
And all of you furriners should want your own countries to try to do this.

Re:Country spies on other country (4, Insightful)

poetmatt (793785) | about a year ago | (#44864801)

As an american citizen, I do not want them doing this.

What is the point of even acting like we have diplomacy if we subvert the very principals of the diplomatic process in the first place?

Re:Country spies on other country (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865117)

As an american citizen, I do not want them doing this.

What is the point of even acting like we have diplomacy if we subvert the very principals of the diplomatic process in the first place?

Because they are doing it right back at us. If you truly believe that the USA is the only one spying you really need to wake up. Every country spies and when you get caught they make it out like it's a huge deal. While at the same time they feed this info to their operatives saying "Why didn't we think of this already!!"

Re:Country spies on other country (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | about a year ago | (#44865309)

Any American that has even superficially read U.S. history, knows that it is filled with spies. The quote, "Trust, but verify." is an un-ignoreable hint.

Also, please read "The Art of War," the author tries to explain in very simple terms to the reader why Spies are essential to successful governing.

Re:Country spies on other country (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865663)

>principals
Yep, you're definitely an American. LOL

Re:Country spies on other country (3, Insightful)

jythie (914043) | about a year ago | (#44864829)

Given how little of the espionage actually benefits the average american, and how much of it might hurt the average american, I am not so sure we should 'want' them doing it.

Historically such things have benefited a fairly small number of people, usually a few well connected corporations and political parties. On the other hand it tends to increase ill will between countries and that usually gets taken out on travelers and small business interactions.

Re:Country spies on other country (1)

mspohr (589790) | about a year ago | (#44864985)

Spying is a product of and benefit to: government (keeps them in power), corporations (keeps them making money) and the media (who dance around and cheer everyone on while making money).
Spying has no benefit to the average citizen.
Interesting (and humorous) take on this by Russell Brand in The Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/sep/13/russell-brand-gq-awards-hugo-boss [theguardian.com]

Re:Country spies on other country (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865043)

Please no complaining then when China does the same against US. Let's not be hypocritical here.

Re:Country spies on other country (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865983)

Not only should every country do espionage, they should also do counter-espionage.
No contradiction there.

Re:Country spies on other country (4, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#44864067)

well isn't breaking law abroad technically CIA's job? ..either way, the news is that some country is actually saying that "hey fuckers, it's not all right to break the law you wrote a contract not to break - also, you promised to send us people who would break these laws on our property if we asked for them so what the fuck guys??".

I mean, why the fuck should belgium honor american intellectual property rights for example if america doesn't honor even basic property rights?(hacking is messing with property with tangible damages, at least when usa is being hacked..)

Re:Country spies on other country (0)

Alok (37687) | about a year ago | (#44865109)

why the fuck should belgium honor american intellectual property rights for example if america doesn't honor even basic property rights?

America has more economic & political influence, as well as more nukes and a vastly larger army that needs to justify its upkeep - that's why. Belgium should just be happy they aren't an oil rich country that doesn't have US oil contracts ;-)

Re:Country spies on other country (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865899)

Gee thanks, you aren't going to nuke us because we don't have oil, we are so happy.

Re:Country spies on other country (2, Insightful)

X.25 (255792) | about a year ago | (#44866061)

Unlike the other recent revelations, this is actually the NSA's job.

What is?

Performing actions that US govt sees as 'acts of war', against other, *allied*, country?

Great job.

Re:Country spies on other country (1, Insightful)

return 42 (459012) | about a year ago | (#44864033)

Government of one nation spies on telecom operations of a friendly power, without notice. Not yawn. Diplomatic incident.

Re:Country spies on other country (3, Informative)

hedwards (940851) | about a year ago | (#44864079)

And Israel spies on the US more than anybody else. It's hardly a shocker that the US would be spying on Belgium, I'm sure we're spying on pretty much everybody.

Doesn't necessarily make it right, but it's unrealistic to believe that they aren't spying on us as well. It's how international relations work. Perhaps someday that will change, but until then, nobody can allow others to do that without also joining in.

Re:Country spies on other country (4, Informative)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about a year ago | (#44864257)

It's hardly a shocker that the US would be spying on Belgium, I'm sure we're spying on pretty much everybody.

The EU government is located in Brussels . . . in Belgium. So if they are spying in Belgium, they are spying on all the EU countries that have offices there.

No surprise.

Re:Country spies on other country (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865673)

Jelle, ga eens even terug aan het werk!

Re:Country spies on other country (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865567)

While it is probably true that every nation maintains some degree of spying, nothing like this has ever happened in the history of the world. Get some degree of understanding please.
It is true for example that the USA broke Japanese codes in 1941. That hardly compares with rifling the transactions of everyone in Japan!
It is probably a good idea to have some spying but total information awareness isn't exactly rational. It has to demonstrate a high degree of insanty to want it at all.

Re:Country spies on other country (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864111)

Diplomatic incident and then some . That in other times would have been war. The USA acting this way is the enemy of the free world .
Peoples around the world should dive deep and excise the cancer. Throw the Ambassadors out and close the embassies. Break diplomatic ties and top priority cut off the access the USA has to the target countries completely. The US don't need a slap on the wrist.They need a kick in the ass and a slap in the face.
Throw the bums out and don't come back ! Immoral and worse than the Nazis .Totally disgusting.

Re:Country spies on other country (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865127)

Worse than Nazis? Really? You honestly think that? Over react much? Tell you what, you really think you can kick us in the ass and slap us in the face, I say "Bring it." - These Arabian fellas knocked down a couple building and killed a little more than 3,000 of us, you might have heard about it, the media really freaked on that one. So we made it our mission to royally fuck up their country, causing nearly 200,000 of their deaths and keeping them held down like beaten dogs, while the worst they can do is blow up a check point. So yeah, "Bring it."

Re:Country spies on other country (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865223)

Ok. Who forgot his pet cretin on /.?

Re:Country spies on other country (1)

return 42 (459012) | about a year ago | (#44866165)

Go away George, go paint some more bathtub pictures.

Surely they mean 2001 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863957)

And it stopped when the Noble Peace winner came into office.

They can't really mean this started in just the last couple years, under Obama's direction. That's unthinkable.

Re:Surely they mean 2001 (0)

hedwards (940851) | about a year ago | (#44864097)

Why? Obama never promised to stop spying on foreign nations and such a policy would be completely irresponsible.

Then again, you're a troll so what do I care what you think.

Re:Surely they mean 2001 (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864165)

You care what I think because I am saying something bad about your hero.

The fact that you even rationalize his activity because he "never promised to stop spying" is hilarious. It isn't that he never promised to stop. He actually increased the spying -this case started in 2011- that the government is doing, which he claimed was wrong before he was in office.

Re:Surely they mean 2001 (3, Insightful)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year ago | (#44864293)

While your post is a bit trollish, there is a ring of truth.

Obama was supposedly going to be this guy who would mend relations with foreign entities (frankly I felt embarrassed for America when he does those stupid bows to foreign leaders) and really the only thing he has done to improve America's image is just get elected in the first place due entirely to the fact that most people just assume he's going to do something good for them. Hence he gets the first "Nobel Peace Prize for Absolutely Nothing At All"(tm).

Other than doing nothing more than simply winning the election, he's actually rather made things worse.

Re:Surely they mean 2001 (4, Interesting)

number11 (129686) | about a year ago | (#44864659)

Obama was supposedly going to be this guy who would mend relations with foreign entities (frankly I felt embarrassed for America when he does those stupid bows to foreign leaders) and really the only thing he has done to improve America's image is just get elected in the first place due entirely to the fact that most people just assume he's going to do something good for them. Hence he gets the first "Nobel Peace Prize for Absolutely Nothing At All"(tm).

Other than doing nothing more than simply winning the election, he's actually rather made things worse.

Obama is what happens when you have a binary political system. The other guy wanted to steal everything that wasn't nailed down and give it to the rich. Obama said he didn't. The other guy wanted to attack and occupy as many other countries as possible, to show how tough he was. Obama said he didn't. The other guy was an idiot who couldn't talk in complete sentences. Obama was a great talker. The other guy was a rich white dude who'd always had a silver spoon in his mouth. Obama was a black guy who'd been a community organizer.

We believed Obama was a better choice. He likely was. We thought that all things equal, it would be great to have a black guy win the post, that it would improve relations between whites and "others". It probably did, though nowhere near as much as we hoped. We wanted to believe that Obama would be a big improvement, and some people actually got sucked into believing that he would be. He wasn't. After eight years of the dumbest and worst president in American history, the guy who attacked Iraq and flew the economy into the ground, we wanted something better. We got it. But "better" is relative.

When you have to choose between dreadful and not-quite-as-bad with a few good points, you do the best you can. The fact that the result isn't great doesn't mean that the other choice wouldn't have been worse.

Re:Surely they mean 2001 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865287)

Is there a left-wing Colbert Report Special News Flash you didn't mention in that ridiculous monologue?

Re:Surely they mean 2001 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865499)

Relax, W. And stay away from that computer. Don't you have a self-portrait to finish? You're not the first political leader to have been a bad amateur painter.

This has been going on... (2)

scuzzlebutt (517123) | about a year ago | (#44863979)

...since only 2011?!? Consider yourselves lucky. I remember hearing about Echelon decades ago.

Re:This has been going on... (1)

GNious (953874) | about a year ago | (#44865479)

Since it is belgacom, I'm surprised they even discovered it; Very likely it could have gone on for years, and they are only seeing the most-recent intrusion.
Belgacom generally are incompetent, such that it often takes them 4-5 attempts to connect a phone-line (per our repeated experience, ca everytime someone in the area moves)

It IS understandable why they are spying there. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44863987)

Belgium was the home of the most notorious super villains EVAR [whysanity.net] .

And the last thing the US needs is to be blackmailed again for *dum-dum DAH* ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS!

Re:It IS understandable why they are spying there. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864661)

Giving current inflation rates that jokes is becoming less funny. :-(

Will Europe contain the USA? (5, Interesting)

ImOuttaHere (2996813) | about a year ago | (#44863995)

This is an interesting development.

Having said that, the Germans, French, and other European states have publicly denounced NSA spying. Yet, they all quietly continue to work as normal with the US. So... what gives? Are they politically motivated to put limits on NSA spying or is it all for public show?

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864077)

Same old thing. [youtube.com]

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (4, Interesting)

Nidi62 (1525137) | about a year ago | (#44864117)

This is an interesting development.

Having said that, the Germans, French, and other European states have publicly denounced NSA spying. Yet, they all quietly continue to work as normal with the US. So... what gives? Are they politically motivated to put limits on NSA spying or is it all for public show?

To them, the US is essentially a necessary evil (how evil depends on your point of view, I guess). European governments depend on the US for protection both militarily (NATO) and through other methods such as the NSA/CIA. By working with the NSA, they gain access to some of the NSA's capabilities without having to make the necessary investments to their own security apparatus, which allows them to divert funds and energy to other things. Obviously the population of Eurpe is not happy with the NSA, or with the US government generally (however I feel like they at least are generally amiable towards Americans as individuals). So, essentially the European governments are getting to have their cake and eat it too. Privately they get the support necessary from the US government to continue on the way they have been, while publicly denouncing it to appeal to their domestic constituency. They probably don't like it, but more than likely they see it as the only option.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (4, Interesting)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year ago | (#44864455)

European governments depend on the US for protection both militarily (NATO)

Really?

The biggest conventional military threat to EU nations would be Russia, which has about 1 million active duty military personnel. If France, Italy, Germany, and the UK combine, they have forces roughly even with Russia. If things get bad enough, the rest of the EU would certainly be interested in defending themselves, so you'd have Greece, Spain, Poland, and Romania putting in another 400,000 or so into action, plus a lot of smaller countries fielding forces of around 30-40,000 troops. Even if you look at nukes, then yes, Russia could blow up Europe, but the UK and France could also blow up Russia. And if everyone mobilizes their reserves, that doesn't change the math much.

As far as spying goes, I'm sure that the Europeans have significant investments in it. Sure, they probably work with the US to get their hands on the latest and greatest, but there's no reason to think they're slouches in that department. And in counter-terrorism, the UK and Spain have had lots of practice at dealing with terrorists (the IRA and Basque separatists) and would be able to lead the effort if they needed to.

So I'm not convinced that the EU depends on the US to defend itself. It cooperates with the US for the cost reasons you've mentioned, but the "we need the Americans to be able to defend ourselves" argument isn't valid.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year ago | (#44865585)

The biggest conventional military threat to EU nations would be Russia, which has about 1 million active duty military personnel. If France, Italy, Germany, and the UK combine, they have forces roughly even with Russia. If things get bad enough, the rest of the EU would certainly be interested in defending themselves, so you'd have Greece, Spain, Poland, and Romania putting in another 400,000 or so into action, plus a lot of smaller countries fielding forces of around 30-40,000 troops.

If your entire analysis of the military is based on troop numbers, then it's useless. How many planes does each have? What are their prospects of gaining air superiority? Do you understand why air superiority is important in military engagements? These are the sorts of questions you need to ask.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (4, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about a year ago | (#44864511)

Europe has plenty enough military capability for its needs. France and the UK spend a disproportionate amount of money on their militaries. I really doubt military protection even crosses the minds of politicians in Europe.

Politicians roll over for a variety of reasons. One is that some of them have the same worldview as the most hawkish members of Congress. Look at how Cameron and some other senior Tory MP's were salivating over the idea of bombing the shit out of Syria. The disappointment at the no vote was obviously not faked, they genuinely felt like that. It's an age thing - politicians skew old and older people tend to have more aggressive foreign policy views than younger people do (at the moment).

Another reason is that they understand the political situation in the USA all too well. The USA does not have friends, or allies. The "special relationship" crap the UK government is fond of trotting out fools nobody, which is confirmed by polling. In the Congressional mindset there exists only two worlds, domestic and foreign. That means the USA won't even hesitate to apply the same brutal economic strategies it applies to Iran to other countries, if those countries were to step out of line. As FATCA rolls out parliaments around the world are learning this one the hard way and are being forced to change their own laws to avoid Iran's fate. The USA has announced to the world that you're either with them or against them, and if you're against them, you'll be treated no differently to any other "rogue state". If the sanctioned and destroyed institutions are systematically important European banks - no problem.

Understandably, European politicians do not want to go in front of their own people and say "We cannot implement this policy because the USA will impose crippling punishments on us automatically if we do", because that makes them seem weak and useless (which indeed they are). And they believe that even if a popular vote were to bring in such a policy, if it resulted in serious recession and job losses then they'd be punished for it. Whether they're right or not is hard to say. Much better to just ignore the elephant in the room, especially if they actually like the idea of seeming tough and strong and being the next Churchill.

The risk is that growing anti-Americanism (which as you observe, is in reality closer to anti-Washington-ism) will continue to be a blind spot for major political parties until it turns into a boiling over pot, just as concerns about immigration did. That leads to the possibility of parties with extremely radical policies starting to gain power, which history tells us is rarely a positive thing.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (1)

OglinTatas (710589) | about a year ago | (#44865125)

France and the UK spend a disproportionate amount of money on their militaries.

This is because France and England are merely 6 km apart.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865319)

>Europe has plenty enough military capability for its needs. France and the UK spend a disproportionate
>amount of money on their militaries. I really doubt military protection even crosses the
>minds of politicians in Europe.

Spoken like a true American. (And I don't even know if you are one.)
Europeans know what war is really like, and having lived through the last thousand years, they understand that it is peace which is the exception, and not war. If push ever comes to shove, Europe might win, but it would do at enormous cost.
Nasty as most Europeans think the American government is (especially the ones who troll on /.), at the end of the day - decade - century , Americans are better than some of the long-term alternatives, and the European politicians know it.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (4, Interesting)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about a year ago | (#44865849)

I'm a Brit who lives in central Europe. So, if you have a point, I'm not sure what it is.

Europe isn't it like it was in the first part of the 20th century. There are no former, broken empires having massive war reparations extracted from them right on Britain's doorstep. There are no charismatic leaders with radically nationalistic talk. Russia isn't going to invade Europe anytime soon. Neither is China. In the event that the world undergoes radical political change, there will be plenty of warning and time to engage in an arms race.

The country that has most extra-territorial control over Europe is the USA. Russia and China do not explicitly threaten or indeed engage in warfare of any kind against Europeans. The USA has actually passed laws that will automatically bankrupt any financial institution anywhere that does not comply with US law. If US law conflicts with local law, tough.

If there's ANY country that Europe might need to defend itself against in the forseeable future, it's the USA. Against military attack? Probably not. Against other forms of attack? It already happens.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (0)

houghi (78078) | about a year ago | (#44864897)

Europe does NOT need to USofA for protection. For that we have, as had been said, the NATO. We have two countries that have atomic weapons and as a whole, there is only one country that could threaten us and that is the USofA. Russia was never a threat to Europe.

We also have several spying agencies in Europe, so no real issue there.

So why all these (secret) compromises with the NSA and the CIA? I am guessing here, but I think it is because
1) It is easy. Why invest in something if you can just buy the information. If the only price is the peoples privacy, who really cares?
2) Europe is not one country, so if one country does not give you what you want, you go looking for the next country.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (2)

joss (1346) | about a year ago | (#44865415)

> Russia was never a threat to Europe

Really !?

Germany and Czechoslovakia might disagree just for starters. I mean, Russia sure had their reasons to be nervous, but "never a threat" is a bizarre statement.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about a year ago | (#44866017)

We have two countries that have atomic weapons and as a whole, there is only one country that could threaten us and that is the USofA. Russia was never a threat to Europe.

Ah, memories. The banners at Greenham Common saying "Russkis take your nukeskis homeski". Maggie Thatcher sucking Gorbachev's cock. RAF Fylingdale, in Northwest Scotland, to cover the great circle route that was the likeliest approach path for missiles and bombers.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (1)

hebertrich (472331) | about a year ago | (#44864127)

Public show. :)

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year ago | (#44864333)

Don't attribute to stupidity what can be adequately explained by greed/malice/agreement to a cheaper way to snoop in their own citizens/buying the promise that they won't be desestabilized next with the intelligence that US is gathering (ok, this one is stupidity too). After all, they don't have oil, so are still low in the list of priorities. Or maybe they didn't know what reaction they can do without shooting themselves in the foot, or that the intelligence gathered contains elements to blackmail them.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864463)

Public show. You think we don't share SIGINT with our Allies? That's WHY their our allies! But Belgium? Not necessarily a hot spot for anti-american sentiment...

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (1)

1s44c (552956) | about a year ago | (#44864547)

It's all public show. Improve the security of the dam computers and stop employing American spies!

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864663)

It's because they do it also. Every country with an intelligence or counterintelligence department is spying.

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (1)

RobertLTux (260313) | about a year ago | (#44864819)

"don't forget to buy that lilac tutu for your daughter since her birthday is in 15 days oh btw her size in in stock at %location% which is currently the best place..

but thats a KIDS store and all my daughters are grown up

All your daughters the PUBLIC knows about are but...

oh right so dinner at the steak place tonight??"

Re:Will Europe contain the USA? (2)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about a year ago | (#44865509)

Having said that, the Germans, French, and other European states have publicly denounced NSA spying. Yet, they all quietly continue to work as normal with the US. So... what gives? Are they politically motivated to put limits on NSA spying or is it all for public show?

I'm curious what you think Belgium could actually do to stop NSA spying? Pass a law against it, perhaps?

Alas, espionage (both sigint and humint) has been a part of every government in history, and it's not going to stop now. You can catch a spy and try him (if you're dumb enough to do that instead of feeding the intel YOU want him to have), but you can't really do much about the fact those guys on the far side of the border are listening to your transmissions (other than encrypt them properly, which you should have been doing already).

In other news... (1, Funny)

girlintraining (1395911) | about a year ago | (#44864027)

...discovered evidence that the NSA has been listening in (Dutch) on the Belgacom network since 2011.

Meanwhile, the French, British, Iranians, North Koreans, Chinese, Russians, several major drug cartels, Iceland, New Zealand, Germans, Australians... their taps on the same wires were left alone and unnoticed. Because everyone on the internet knows that only the NSA and those pesky American's ever spy on anyone else, because they're all signals intelligence virgins who just don't see the point in espionage when we're all just one big happy carebear family.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I need to start treatment immediately... because writing that much snark just gave me cancer.

Re:In other news... (3, Insightful)

wytcld (179112) | about a year ago | (#44864075)

Yeah, major drug cartels and especially Iceland have massive data centers that rival what the US has. Right. That must be why so many of the job postings for those with related skills are in Columbia and Iceland.

Look, we know that the NSA hires shills to mock all of us who are concerned with this stuff. You're probably not one of them. You probably just do it for free.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864145)

Re:In other news... (2, Interesting)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about a year ago | (#44864355)

Since drug cartels run multiple governments in Latin America, why not?

Israel, Russia and China certainly have a pretty high level of skill in this arena as well.

They must be laughing up their sleeves at the NSA. They would have taken Snowden out LONG ago.

Re:In other news... (1)

girlintraining (1395911) | about a year ago | (#44864825)

Yeah, major drug cartels and especially Iceland have massive data centers that rival what the US has. Right. That must be why so many of the job postings for those with related skills are in Columbia and Iceland.

Iceland is building a 50 to 70 acre data center [datacenterdynamics.com] . And they're hiring [ibtimes.com] tons.

The mexican drug cartel has a massive national wireless network [wfaa.com] . They're hiring too, but you have to apply in person; They don't take online resumes.

Look, we know that the NSA hires shills to mock all of us who are concerned with this stuff. You're probably not one of them. You probably just do it for free.

Well, you got one thing right: I do this for free. I suppose 1 out of 6 is better than your usual average though.

Re:In other news... (1)

bluefoxlucid (723572) | about a year ago | (#44864415)

Because they discovered hacking would require significant financial and logistics means.

Not tagging onto the trans-atlantic cables with a hardware device. Hacking of computers.

"Our systems are so secure though! They couldn't have been hacked by teenagers! Only like... a rich and powerful bazillionare, or a government, or something, would b e able to break our shit! It has encryption!"

Re:In other news... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864619)

Meanwhile, the French, British, Iranians, North Koreans, Chinese, Russians, several major drug cartels, Iceland, New Zealand, Germans, Australians... their taps on the same wires were left alone and unnoticed.

You're free to believe whatever crap you want, but there's no evidence these countries were spying in this case.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865513)

discovered evidence that the NSA has been listening in (Dutch) on the Belgacom network since 2011

They all listen in Dutch like the NSA do, and don't understand anything. For this reason the messages are stores indefinitely in their facilities for the later day understanding.

Duh... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864053)

We did it.. Everyone knows we did it. We don't even bother to hide we did it anymore.

The real question to be answered tho is.... What are you going to do about it?

Sue? lol

Good luck with that.

One world, one nation, under God and Jesus Christ who died on the Cross for all of our sins and then rose on the third day, indivisible, with liberty and justice for most.

Re:Duh... (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about a year ago | (#44864395)

International agreements have 2 parts, if one of the parts misbehave that agreement could be nullified. The other countries could just leave the dollar as international trade standard. They can reject all US IP claims (if they as policy of state ignores the IP of foreing citizens/companies/etc, they well can do the same). Can do trade embargos (US love to do them, the rest can do it too). Can loose ties with US and move to i.e. China as main market. And, of course, can cut dependence on US based internet services and software.

Else they are just boiling frogs.

Re:Duh... (1)

lxs (131946) | about a year ago | (#44864703)

The other countries could just leave the dollar as international trade standard.

They'd have to sell off most of their US assets first, and do it carefully so as not to give the game away. Don't want to crash an economy you're heavily invested in.

USA = TERRORISTS (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864095)

We should shut down every relations with such hostile and aggressive country.

Re:USA = TERRORISTS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864201)

We should shut down every relations with such hostile and aggressive country.

Your head is so far up your ass if open your eyes you'll see your molars.

USA = LIBERATOR (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864237)

Who will come to your aid the next time you're occupied? You're going to have a real problem in 30-50 years.

Re:USA = LIBERATOR (2)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about a year ago | (#44864321)

Look at what Europe does to people who oppose the USA. We're already occupied!

Re:USA = LIBERATOR (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864647)

Elect them to office and give them awards? Your retort isn't convincing.

Re:USA = LIBERATOR (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864497)

Who will come to your aid the next time you're occupied? You're going to have a real problem in 30-50 years.

Learn history. The USA have liberated the pacific islands from the Japanese forces. The US did not liberate Europe. That was accomplished at over 80% by the soviets. The US played a very little part in the liberation of Europe and went on to gain a lot in the aftermath of the war (same as the soviets by the way).
If you think the US "participated" in the european theater out of the kindness of their hearts to aid their european bretheren I have the Brooklyn bridge to sell you along with the state of New York. Great deal !

Re:USA = LIBERATOR (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about a year ago | (#44866187)

The US did not liberate Europe. That was accomplished at over 80% by the soviets.

Replacing one deranged silly-mustached dictator with a different deranged silly-mustached dictator isn't liberation, houghi.

Re:USA = LIBERATOR (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864569)

LIBERATOR?

If by that you mean the USA chosing another countries dictator/falsely elected government, then you would be historically correct.

Re:USA = LIBERATOR (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865231)

You mean like the democracies in Western Europe? You seem to be missing some history.

Re:USA = LIBERATOR (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865609)

South America, Middle East, Asia, island nations arouind the world, those are a bit more obvious if you seriously look at them though much of the activities there were covert. Western Europe influence of the USA is mostly from NATO manipulation in part enabled by the Western Allies handing Eastern Europe to the USSR then needing US money, technology, etc that is not to say there does not exist some balance and independence in those categories especially since the changes in Easter Europe encouraging greater European independence though treaties still pump much cash back to the US and US laws to Europe. If the US don't get what it wants, it tends to fund rebellions, sometimes on both sides and either openly or covertly or both. Particularly in the regions of South America and Asia covertly arranged and/or conducted assasinations have at times been all too common as well.

Re:USA = LIBERATOR (2)

shikaisi (1816846) | about a year ago | (#44864857)

Who will come to your aid the next time you're occupied?

The British, just like they usually do. And the Americans will turn up 3 years late, just like they usually do.

Re:USA = TERRORISTS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864439)

We should shut down every relations with such hostile and aggressive country.

That's fine. Then the next time you need help the US will probably leave you to the tender mercies of the Nazis, Communists, or whomever comes in their place. Have fun... assuming you are part of the "master race" or a party member. If not, sucks to be you.

Re:USA = TERRORISTS (1)

Camembert (2891457) | about a year ago | (#44864577)

Let's face it, the economic importance of the USA in the world is waning. This is the century of Asia (not just my words), and you notice already how the economic balance is shifting.

Re:USA = TERRORISTS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865199)

Let's face it, the economic importance of the USA in the world is waning. This is the century of Asia (not just my words), and you notice already how the economic balance is shifting.

Asia is already losing ground. It shifted that direction and is coming back. Their growth is dropping rapidly.

For people who don't speak dutch ... (3, Informative)

lord_rob the only on (859100) | about a year ago | (#44864205)

Re:For people who don't speak dutch ... (1)

scuzzlebutt (517123) | about a year ago | (#44864597)

I don't speak freaky-deaky Dutch!

Netherlands?? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864387)

Why is this post tagged with 'netherlands'? Belgium hasn't been part of the netherlands since 1830 ... I know you lot are a bit retarded when it comes to history, but nearly 200 years is a pretty long time ..

Re:Netherlands?? (1)

BenoitRen (998927) | about a year ago | (#44864827)

I was going to ask the same question. What's more, to Belgians it's insulting to be associated with The Netherlands.

Re:Netherlands?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864923)

Who cares about Belgium anyhow?

Re:Netherlands?? (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year ago | (#44865627)

Who cares about Belgium anyhow?

Anyone who likes chocolate or strange castles. I guess.

Yum, Belgian chocolate.

Re:Netherlands?? (3, Informative)

TheP4st (1164315) | about a year ago | (#44865771)

A couple of reasons that many do care:

Belgium is in possession of 10-20 nuclear warhead under the NATO nuclear weapons sharing program.

NATO's Central Command is in Belgium.

The European Commssion is in Belgium.

The second largest container port in Europe is in Belgium.

Europe's second largest chemical plant is BASF in Belgium where they also have the HQ for their own banking operation which have enough financial power to influence currency exchange rates of a country by dumping for example the SEK.

Many of the worlds best beers are brewed in Belgium.

I hope for your sake that the there's truth to Thomas Gray's words "ignorance is bliss"

Re:Netherlands?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865743)

to Belgians it's insulting to be associated with The Netherlands.

Well, they could change languages.

Re:Netherlands?? (1)

whoever57 (658626) | about a year ago | (#44865707)

Why is this post tagged with 'netherlands'?

Because some idiot with a poor knowledge of gerography doesn't realize that Dutch is spoken in countries other than the Netherlands?

Remember the Greeks (4, Interesting)

nicolaiplum (169077) | about a year ago | (#44864559)

The USA has got form here. Remember the Greek Vodafone hacks in 2004 - technically sophisticated and never traced, but available evidence pointed to the geographic region of the US Embassy in Athens. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_wiretapping_case_2004 [wikipedia.org] –05

Asking for it... (1)

geminidomino (614729) | about a year ago | (#44864583)

Seriously, what do they expect, giving their country a name like that? [wikia.com] Of course they're going to piss people off!

Cyber (1)

workdot (1056402) | about a year ago | (#44864603)

It's one thing when the local news uses the word 'cyber' when talking about things like cyberbullying or cyberattacks, but it feels like a punch in the stomach when a tech site does the same. To me that is a word that should not be synonymous with the Internet. I mean, it's not like we're all walking around with VR helmits on here.

Enemies? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864713)

It's not so much that the NSA spied but the message this sends out...the US sees not only its own citizens as enemies but now also Europeans

NSA's interest must be GRX and IPX (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864751)

Belgacom is a main global provider of GRX and IPX connectivity, in layman's terms, the private IP networks that are used to transport voice, messaging and data traffic between Wireless network providers when their subscribers roam abroad. If they can hack into Belgacom, they can probably get access to upwards of 50% of global romaing traffic that they otherwise wouldn't see on the public internet taps they have around the place.

Fr1sIt psot (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44864921)

any doubt: FrreBSD Survival prospects

Oblig. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44865215)

Def: Oh Belgium

A galacticly frowned upon word, it is used when no other word can describe the circumstance in which on is in. Coincidentally it is also the name of a country on the entirely insignificant planet Earth. The word "Belgium" is often used by people such as Zaphod Beeblebrox, former galactic president, in many situations.
"Man you're hanging off the edge of that bottomless pit again and this time I don't think I can really be bothered to help."

"Oh Belgium man! Belgium! Belgium! Belgium! Help me you zarking zark! Holy Zarquon singing fish."

"Hang on a second, what does "Holy Zarquon singing fish" mean?"

"I really don't want to go into it right now thanks"

In Dutch, eh? (2)

iroll (717924) | about a year ago | (#44865407)

discovered evidence that the NSA has been listening in (Dutch) on the Belgacom network

So French speakers should be fine, right?

There is something I can't really get (1)

ruir (2709173) | about a year ago | (#44865781)

If you are using american operating systems (Windows, notably), and Israeli products (Checkpoint, NetApp), what are you expecting? That the Mossad and CIA won't take advantage of it? Seriously? Using Huawei too? Are you they so delusional, naive, or are they just covering the tracks of their own stupidity? China got it in the right direction with red flag Linux and Loongson.

They will be extradited, right? (4, Insightful)

X.25 (255792) | about a year ago | (#44866097)

I also presume US government will extradite these criminals who were breaking all kinds of international (and domestic) laws, and were waging cyber warfare against another sovereign country.

After all, this is what US expects from others, so it would only be nice that they start following what they preach, eh?

United States of Corruption. That's what USA has became. Any 'moral high ground' that US had, on pretty much *any* issue, is simply gone.

It is beyond sad, a country we all looked up to some 20 years ago. Turned into complete shit :(

Act of war (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44866159)

When is the US going to realize that under traditional definitions THIS IS AN ACT OF WAR!

The US needs to put a leash on the NSA or eliminate those B@#$%^&* entirely.

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