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President of Brazil Lashes Out At NSA Espionage Programs In Speech To UN

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the heavy-fallout-for-some-awful-powerpoint-slides dept.

United States 260

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "The Guardian reports that Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff launched a blistering attack on US espionage at the UN general assembly, accusing the NSA of violating international law by its indiscriminate collection of personal information of Brazilian citizens and economic espionage targeted on the country's strategic industries. 'Personal data of citizens was intercepted indiscriminately. Corporate information – often of high economic and even strategic value – was at the center of espionage activity,' said Rousseff. 'Brazilian diplomatic missions, among them the permanent mission to the UN and the office of the president of the republic itself, had their communications intercepted.' Rousseff's angry speech was a direct challenge to President Barack Obama, who was waiting in the wings to deliver his own address to the UN general assembly, and represented the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. Washington's efforts to smooth over Brazilian outrage over NSA espionage have so far been rebuffed by Rousseff, who has proposed that Brazil build its own internet infrastructure. 'Friendly governments and societies that seek to build a true strategic partnership, as in our case, cannot allow recurring illegal actions to take place as if they were normal. They are unacceptable.'"

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Good (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946599)

Enough said.

Re:Good (5, Funny)

Austrian Anarchy (3010653) | about a year ago | (#44946857)

I wonder what the NSA folks were saying about this speech in the hours before it was given?

Re:Good (1)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about a year ago | (#44947017)

They probably had several conflicting lies, and changed their position every few minutes.

Re:Good (5, Insightful)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#44947049)

Considering that contents of the speech were widely known quite a while before it was given by the press, I imagine they were probably stepping up their efforts to pour money into Rousseff's political opponents pockets while preparing an assassination mission, as US has usually done when a Latin America leader didn't please them.

Re:Good (2)

lexa1979 (2020026) | about a year ago | (#44947315)

I don't know if I have to mod this "Funny" or "Insightful"... So, I'll just leave a comment.

Re:Good (-1, Troll)

gandhi_2 (1108023) | about a year ago | (#44947045)

countries spy on countries.

quit being a little bitch.

Re:Good (1)

Sique (173459) | about a year ago | (#44947157)

Countries prosecute foreign spies they catch spying.

You were saying? NSA spies caught spying on Brazil should be shot?

Re: Good (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947395)

If the US doesn't claim and extract them, that's certainly a real possibility. I don't know what Brazil's laws are for espionage, but they probably aren't like China or North Korea, who would likely give you less than a day to live, if they didn't use you as a bartering chip.

If you haven't noticed Brazil isn't like other South American or Central American countries. They have 6th largest GDP in the world now, if I recall. You could say, they're almost a 1st world country, if they'd stomp out there gang problem.

Pissing off Brazil is bad if they retalliate economically against the US with restrictions or boycott. They're are right now, the hot spot country, and that likely isn't going to change. Bonus: THEY DON'T HAVE NUKES! If you don't see why that's different, you haven't thought any of this through at all.

Re: Good (1)

Sique (173459) | about a year ago | (#44947663)

Brazil had nukes once, and I don't think they forgot how to make them. They just disbanded them when the military junta wanted to get "development help" in return.

Re: Good (1)

Sique (173459) | about a year ago | (#44947689)

Oh, it's more complicated, but yes, Brazil had a nuclear weapons program, the Parallel Program, and it only got stopped when the civilian government took over, but they restarted enrichment again in 2006.

Re:Good (0, Troll)

gandhi_2 (1108023) | about a year ago | (#44947643)

What am I saying?

Cut the bullshit. Every country with any international dealings has an espionage agency.

It seems NSA is the most popular buzzword for people to bitch about when 90% of the nerds posting here would actually secretly give their left net to get a job at. Websites like this LOVE NSA stories for the keyword-whoring.

Mad about domestic spying? Good. Jumping on the Fuck The NSA bandwagon cause Brazil is mad and that just makes more people on the bandwaggon? Lame.

Re:Good (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947521)

quit being a little bitch.

Agreed... fuck that fucker who tries to spy on you

Protesting too much... (2, Insightful)

mi (197448) | about a year ago | (#44947149)

accusing the NSA of violating international law by its indiscriminate collection of personal information

Which particular law did the the lady have in mind?

Spying on other countries is what all countries do — to the best of their abilities. Perhaps, Brazil's abilities aren't a match for those of the US — and not just in the field of spying. I can see, how the resulting jealousy — among politicians and ordinary citizens alike — can lead to some fiery speeches, but the audience better remember, there is nothing the US has done, that any other country wouldn't have, if only it were able to.

Now, spying on one's own citizens — that's bad. But that's not a matter for international law, is it?

Re:Protesting too much... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947405)

No, but it's a matter of international douche-baggery and people getting tired of the US thinking themselves superior to the rest of the world.

The rest of the world doesn't see it that way and doesn't give a shit.

Re:Protesting too much... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947657)

We are superior. If they think otherwise then they should act on it. The results would be interesting.

Re:Protesting too much... (1)

mitzampt (2002856) | about a year ago | (#44947823)

Seriously? I give you seven to ten years. If you aren't feeling anything around the corner now, go on. Be superior.

Re:Protesting too much... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947593)

I am from Brazil and I can say I don't give a flying fuck about NSA looking into my favorites redtube videos.
Have fun doing it, whatever...

That being said, I find it actually a good thing that Dilma is pissed off because even if we, the brazilian people, can't know all the shit that our government does at least you guys can and keep them worried as hell about what they do because someone in Washington DC knows what they do.

By the way the only thing she can do is speak to a bunch of mother fuckers at the UN, nothing is going to change. Again, its a good thing, please spy on them as well. :)

Can we get rid of Bush yet (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946627)

I can't wait until Bush is no longer president so all these foreign countries no longer hate the US. Between Iran stil enriching uranium, Syria using chemical weapons daring us to do something, Russia ridiculing the US, and now Brazil making this speech the standing of the US in world view is at an all time low point.

Whats that? Bush isn't president and the DNC has the White House. Nevermind, all of this is acceptable as long as a Democrat is running things.

Carry on.

Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet (5, Funny)

JustOK (667959) | about a year ago | (#44946915)

Well, it was Bush's fault Obama got elected

Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet (2)

houghi (78078) | about a year ago | (#44947401)

Oh. So cute. Still blaming 'the other' party. Please do that again and again in the next few elections.

Hate to "burst your bubble", but... apk (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946941)

The REAL "rulers" are the wealthy, & what keeps them the MOST wealthy? Heck - the MOST PROFITABLE INVESTMENT THERE IS: War! It's what the "Eisenhower Military Industrial Complex" THRIVES on... via YOUR TAXES!

* You have something they need/want? They make YOU "the enemy" to justify going after that 'something' they want/need... for "freedom" (whose freedom & what kind? Financial FREEDOM for the war profiteers is what!).

It's so damned obvious, they can't HIDE THAT anymore...

APK

P.S.=> This shit is just outright plain-jane insane, all of it... apk

Re:Hate to "burst your bubble", but... apk (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947123)

A good HOSTS file will put an end to war.

Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet (5, Insightful)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about a year ago | (#44947107)

Nevermind, all of this is acceptable as long as a Democrat is running things.

I'm not sure what alternate universe you just came over from. But in this universe, most of us here on Slashdot have plenty of disgust with BOTH major political parties in the U.S., and their leaders. The closest thing to a consensus here is that the "Democrats" and "Republicans" are both just wings of the Corporationalist Party that really controls everything here now.

Re:Can we get rid of Bush yet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947393)

I just stopped in from this other universe where the ratio of normal people to slashdot readers is apparently way different then this one. I am heading back shortly, just grabbing a tinfoil hat from one of you so i can show everyone back there what they look like.

Commendable (2)

homb (82455) | about a year ago | (#44946629)

Commendable, but ultimately wishful thinking unfortunately.
The NSA will just tap the underwater cables or enlist the "help" of technicians at the Brazil data exchanges to split the data feeds. When the adversary has this much money and next to no scruples, the battle is difficult if not impossible.

Re:Commendable (4, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | about a year ago | (#44946669)

That doesn't mean that they should just give up fighting. The data is probably 99.999% junk anyway, but that doesn't mean that we should just roll over and accept governments breaking international laws.

Re:Commendable (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946807)

And when spying for and cooperating with the enemy lands you life in jail, those technicians will probably be less than enthusiastic about helping out any NSA agents that might approach them.

Re:Commendable (1)

tusam (1851540) | about a year ago | (#44946859)

That's a pretty specific percentage for "probably". :)
It's not the data itself that's often the most interesting thing to spies, it's the context, who, where, when and what else were they up to.

Re:Commendable (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946991)

That doesn't mean that they should just give up fighting. The data is probably 99.999% junk anyway, but that doesn't mean that we should just roll over and accept governments breaking international laws.

Problem is how does a person or persons protest these activities? The governments are not going to stop mining data illegally no matter what anyone says.

From an American point of view, it is well past time we start scaling back government power. Republicans and Democrats, with the exception of their stances on abortion and health care, are the same @*#$ party. First, we have to vote 90% of the current ass clown politicians out of office. Second, we need term limits to avoid the career politicians which only breed corruption. And thirdly, the Constitution Party and Libertarian Party need to infiltrate and re-influence the Republican and Democratic parties to put them back where they were. Did I mention we need to disassemble Homeland Security?

Re:Commendable (2)

somersault (912633) | about a year ago | (#44947351)

You need to stop making being a politician so profitable too. Politics seems to attract power hungry assholes, rather than people who want to run a country well..

Re:Commendable (1)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about a year ago | (#44947651)

accept governments breaking international laws.

I'm vaguely curious - what international law was broken?

Re:Commendable (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946719)

Commendable, but ultimately wishful thinking unfortunately.
The NSA will just tap the underwater cables or enlist the "help" of technicians at the Brazil data exchanges to split the data feeds. When the adversary has this much money and next to no scruples, the battle is difficult if not impossible.

The goal is not to make it impossible to siphon data, but to make it sufficiently difficult. Furthermore, if the task has to be performed *in* Brazil, so much the better. It's a lot easier to prosecute someone in a Brazilian prison, as compared to the White House. It follows from the same principle that states (software) piracy is more frequent than bank robbery.

But putting it all together will be expensive; Kardashian shopping spree expensive.

Re:Commendable (1)

xvan (2935999) | about a year ago | (#44946795)

But putting it all together will be expensive; Kardashian shopping spree expensive.

But would it be worth, economically speaking, or the current intercontinental links and infrastructure is enough for the moment?
It might have been a plan that just was revealed before time because of the political opportunity.

Anyone has some rough numbers of how much money are we talking about?

Re:Commendable (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946849)

You seem to think reality matters more than appearances. It doesn't; this is politics. Roussef doesn't give a crap what the NSA knows; every company is a multinational these days, anyway. But every time the US is caught lying, that gives other countries (with the possible exception of China and Russia, who do or did the same in the recent past) an excuse to point fingers, which means those multinational companies start to distance themselves from the US, just to avoid letting that toxic image impact their own (and their sales). And that means they'll be paying taxes outside the USA, hiring workers outside the USA, and so on. In fact, right now, I suspect a lot of network administrators (even american ones) would rush to buy any routers labeled "designed and manufactured in Brazil".

It would be a huge boost for Brazil's image if the US was caught spying on any brazilian-owned communications cables. And it would be another nail in the coffin of US companies and the US economy.

Re:Commendable (1)

pjt33 (739471) | about a year ago | (#44947297)

Roussef doesn't give a crap what the NSA knows

Seriously? Ordinary people don't like being told "Your phone is being tapped". High-level politicians have even more reason to not like it: they have enemies with resources and motive to do them harm. She might dislike economic espionage only at an intellectual level, but her strong reaction is provoked by learning that her personal communications were intercepted.

Re:Commendable (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947523)

Europe threatens USA with sanctions over NSA illegal spying.

http://jamaica-gleaner.com/latest/article.php?id=46110 [jamaica-gleaner.com]

The NSA will just tap the underwater cables

That would be just more of what we need, more ammo to shoot the NSA with.

So a Politician is Talking (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946635)

You know when their lips are moving that they must be lying. This is not significant, nor fallout. This is merely another sociopath talking. No different than Bush or Obama or Merkel or Putin.

Re:So a Politician is Talking (1)

kilfarsnar (561956) | about a year ago | (#44946739)

Nothing is said in public without a reason.

Small problem with summary (5, Informative)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year ago | (#44946639)

represented the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden

Really, "the most serious diplomatic fallout" was a (justifiably) angry speech?

How about when Vladimir "Polonium 209" Putin suddenly became the world's defender of human rights? Or how about when the US and EU countries grounded Evo Morales, President of Bolivia, so they could search his plane for Snowden (a rough equivalent here would be the Chinese stopping and searching Air Force One)?

Rousseff is almost definitely speaking for more than just Brazil: Her government is the strongest of a group of left-wing South American countries that have resisted the US for about a decade. Others in that group include Bolivia, Ecuador, Venezuela, and of course Cuba.

Re:Small problem with summary (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947227)

Would that be an OK action if this was not a group of 'left-wing' countries, but 'normal' or 'right-wing' ?
Would you be happy and shut up when Brazil takes the same actions with your personal data or looked into your companies, just because they can?

Please explain why hacking into the communications of strategic industries of a foreign country has anything to do with the fight against terrorism.
And why people should accept this as a peaceful activity, and not as a war-under-the-covers.

Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (4, Insightful)

DavidClarkeHR (2769805) | about a year ago | (#44946645)

Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... but the moral high-ground one of those things. Brazil isn't exactly spotless when it comes to human rights abuse. Sure, it's not wide-spread mass surveillance, it's just regular police state concerns (non-existent rights for both the accused and the convicted, and systemic government corruption), though they're not doing so hot in promoting equality (or addressing their widening income gap and widespread poverty).

But hey, they're not wrong, and that doesn't excuse what the NSA is doing. Has done. Is accused of doing.

Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946725)

Brazil's income gap is at the lowest point of the last 120 years. Kind of like the US, only in reverse.

Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946831)

Having lived in Brazil, that place felt like old timey Chicago. Yes, there's corruption on the government side, but there's crime on the other. The corruption and surveillance is nowhere near China, and the crimes are not sadistic as the Mexican cartels. Brazil prides itself in modeling after the French, but that is just an ideal. And about the economic gap, Lula made it better and it has been better (relatively speaking) than the time around Collor's disgraced presidency. Keep in mind, it's a big country with very dense major cities, so change takes time.

Brazil has a treaty with the neighboring nation to basically not attack or invade each other. Hence, the military is only there to support the regional police, acting more like a national guard but for violent crimes (as opposed to natural disasters in the US). It would be unfair to characterize it as a "police-state." The police "thuggishness" is comparable to the police brutality in NYC (cop pushing Critical Mass cyclist; Stop-and-Frisk program), Oakland (BART shooting), etc etc. Basically, this is the usual problems you'll find in any large city. I grew up during a time when the police would hit up local places for protection money or they'll find some discrepancy with your business and fine you (watch Tropa de Elite), but I believe that is on the decline.

Overall, Brazil is one of the "good" countries, by US standards, and it's offensive for the NSA to spy on them based on any terroristic grounds. The US was spying on Brazil purely for economical and trade advantage, especially now that Brazil is becoming oil independent and has a growing economy. And Obama can't come up with a good excuse why the NSA was spying on Brazil, short of saying that Brazil is a dangerous breeding ground for criminals. Brazil doesn't even export mafia gangster like Russia.

Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (4, Insightful)

ospirata (565063) | about a year ago | (#44946879)

What's the connection with Brazil's human right abuse with spying? This information has absolutely no connection with being subject of industrial spying. Moreover, the country has indeed managed to promote equality. It rescued more than 20 million people from above the poverty line in the last four years. If this isn't a big accomplishment to reduce inequality, I definitely can't know what it is.

Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947079)

What's the connection with Brazil's human right abuse with spying?

FREEDOM. RESPECT. RIGHTS.

Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (2, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | about a year ago | (#44947199)

The big human rights abuse stories where US supported via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor [wikipedia.org]
For the past ~~20 years Brazil has had a "democracy" and a generation has grown under the freedoms and emerging wealth, trade and stability.
The US was interested in Brazil for its emerging nuclear skill set, oil and aerospace exports.
Things an "emerging" nation is expected to take a loan out for in US and buy via the US not develop domestically and export to the world.

Re:Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | about a year ago | (#44947235)

Sure, it's not wide-spread mass surveillance, it's just regular police state concerns

THAT YOU KNOW OF....

The funny thing is I'm sure Brazil(as almost any large state actor) has plenty of spies, both domestic and foreign. They just have to feign outrage when another country's spies get caught with their hand in the cookie jar and of course claim that they would never EVER do such a thing*

*such a thing is defined as actually letting their spy program leak to the general public.

Obama is weak and ineffective (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946651)

Obama is weak and ineffective -- and the whole world knows this.

Criminal activity still to be punished (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946673)

The US regime really must prosecute those who were responsible for this criminal activity.
Spying on people is the act of a criminal and totalitarian regime, and is incompatible with democracy.

Re:Criminal activity still to be punished (2)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about a year ago | (#44946867)

So they're going to prosecute themselves?

Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Efforts (5, Insightful)

xvan (2935999) | about a year ago | (#44946677)

Washington's efforts to smooth over Brazilian outrage over NSA espionage have so far been rebuffed by Rousseff

Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Efforts"...

Obama with a poker face: Well we spy on you to protect the world against Terrorism
Dilma: So I was suspected of terrorism, even if I was the candidate for the ruling party of an country without conflicts with the US.
Obama: But with terror...
Dilma: And If I was suspected of terrorism, the why did you spy on our major petrol company...
Obama: Err terror...
Dilma: Fuck-You.

accusing the NSA of violating international law by [...]

And the rest of the world, doesn't care what is the NSA, for us it's the US that's spying, so no she accused the the US...

NSA's fucking job (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946913)

Excuse me, but the NSA's fucking job is spying. Every country spies. It's part of one of those things governments are supposed to do.

Re:NSA's fucking job (5, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about a year ago | (#44947097)

You know, I've read this excuse a million times since Snowden did his thing, and I'm sick of it.

The problem is it's an abuse of language. Saying "Every country spies. It's one of those things governments are supposed to do" is nothing but rhetorical sleight of hand. The word spy conjures up cartoons of men in pork-pie hats and long raincoats following some traitor in a car. The word is loaded with cold war imagery. It reminds people of a time when there was an "us" vs a "them" and spying was a very small scale and targeted activity done against "them" or, at very least, those of "us" working for "them".

We need a new word to describe what's going on in todays world. Spying doesn't even come close to being the right word. How about totalitarian surveillance? But even that isn't strong enough to communicate the reality we are living in.

In today's reality there's no us vs them. There's no good vs evil, capitalism vs communism. There's just bureaucrats and their power, exercised over their own people as readily as over foreigners.

This is not only not "one of those things governments are supposed to do", it's often one of those things governments are expressly prohibited from doing by their own laws. And that's for good reasons!

Please, don't flatter the NSA by calling them spies. They aren't spies at this point. They are real life equivalents of O'Brien, the dedicated agent of totalitarian control [sparknotes.com] in 1984. O'Brien is a far darker and scarier character than anyone who could be described as a spy.

Re:NSA's fucking job (2)

oreaq (817314) | about a year ago | (#44947105)

No. Governments are not supposed to commit millions of criminal acts in allied countries. And no, not every country does that.

Re:NSA's fucking job (1)

xvan (2935999) | about a year ago | (#44947299)

A clumsy job if yo ask me... Assume that everybody spies on everybody... Why would you give a contractor like Snowden, access to that sort of information?
There was no justification other than "because we only care about ourselves". But you can't say that because economic consequences are greater that the tactical advantage.
Do you really think that before Snowden, the tactical advantage taken by spying justified the risk of being caught spying?
Some think that it didn't, that a target like Dilma would know that she is being wiretapped, that no sensible information would be transmitted through gmail, anyway.

What about the risk of giving access to that information to some contractor because it was cheaper than doing it inhouse?
Or you think that this sort of analysis of whom and how you should spy isn't part of the NSA job?
Or you think that the US shouldn't give a shit about what a lesser country thinks about you?

Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo (4, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | about a year ago | (#44947075)

The US has two main fears historically emerging from a Brazil like country:
Exports outside the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar [wikipedia.org] with countries like Japan, China - totally removing the need for any use of US currency.
The formation of views such as a new http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-Aligned_Movement [wikipedia.org] locking up strategic materials and demanding market value.
The CIA and NSA never want the US to lose control of their vision of soft dollar loans. Long term the loans get repaid with interest or the sale of local assets back to US entities by emerging countries.

Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947221)

Dilma: So I was suspected of terrorism, even if I was the candidate for the ruling party of an country without conflicts with the US.

Actually, Dilma isn't suspected of terrorism because she is actually a terrorist. She has long and deep ties with a communist terrorist organization from Brazil, that was involved in bombing attacks and assassinations. She was actually the "trigger woman", if you will, and that's all old news and all documented.

Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo (1)

xvan (2935999) | about a year ago | (#44947479)

I don't see anybody calling the Syrian insurgency "terrorists", or not calling North Korea "terrorist".
You can't play the terrorist card whenever 'X' attacks 'Y', and 'X' isn't part of a government... 'terrorism' it has a very specific definition.

The funny thing is that in these latitudes, we take the reverse point of view, the de facto governments are being judged for terrorism or what they did to combat that insurgences... governments that were not only allies, but also were promoted by the US.

Re:Yeah, talk me more about those "Washington Effo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947537)

Obama: Be cool with this and we'll provide you with enough data to stay in office as long as you like. If you want a career change, we can help you with investment information too.
Dilma: Sounds good. Give me a couple of months to gracefully tie up the rhetoric.
Obama: Sure thing.

Yeah but what kind of spanish is that? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946697)

no comprenday!

and what the fuck is he talking in spanish for anyway?

don't they have they are own tounge?

Fair enough but (1, Insightful)

gelfling (6534) | about a year ago | (#44946705)

What about the super secret nuclear plant at Recende which even the normally craven IAEA says is bizarrely inaccessible? What about Brazil's SNI and ABIN intelligence agencies which are literally only answerable to the person of the President and even that only nominally and that they had been caught wiretapping every single person in the Federal government in 2008?

rofl...Brazil build its own Internet? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946709)

and this will stop the devil from taking over your new Internet?

hahahhaahahahaaaa

Brazil should embrace their new NSA overlords.

Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946735)

Brazil has a lot of things going for it ... but the moral high-ground one of those things. Brazil isn't exactly spotless when it comes to human rights abuse. Sure, it's not wide-spread mass surveillance, it's just regular police state concerns (non-existent rights for both the accused and the convicted, and systemic government corruption), though they're not doing so hot in promoting equality (or addressing their widening income gap and widespread poverty).

But hey, they're not wrong, and that doesn't excuse what the NSA is doing. Has done. Is accused of doing.

Hypocrites (4, Insightful)

wjcofkc (964165) | about a year ago | (#44946741)

She's blowing all this steam and yet they refused asylum for Snowden.

Re:Hypocrites (3, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about a year ago | (#44947725)

Back then they didn't know they themselves had been spied on. But I agree. It didn't take a Kreskin to see the spying on Brazil revelations coming once they started. They should have stood up for it. In fairness to the region, other Latin American countries did.

And the asnwer is ... (1)

Coeurderoy (717228) | about a year ago | (#44946745)

the near future two main issues are : " Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons, and the Arab-Israeli conflict ".

So that's cool, both problems have their roots in the 1920th and not looking close to any sort of solution, Iran can transform their nuclear industry into a chocolate factory as long as they do not give their petrol for "real cheap" absence of proof not being proof of absence it can still serve as a bogey man (and they do enough creepy stuff inside to make it hard for them to be really "liked"), and the end of the Arab Israeli conflict can only be solved in three ways,
- decide that palestine is all arab (and muslim)
- decide that israel is all isrealy (and jewish)
- decide that this vaguely federal country to be named is a democratic country with people of various ethnic and religious back ground who need to live together and the only way this can happen is to totally extirpate any reference to any specific religion, ethnic origin or "nation".

Choice one and two would mean lots of dead people, choice three would be seen as a "bad example" for the neighbours and protectors...

So Obama ignored the issue, and is just doing a "domestic" pitch for "more money to the war mongers ..."

And of course a "think of the children" in syria is a brillant way to distract attention, the "chemical weapon" issue is a total red hering, it is just something that can justify doing nothing while vaguely pretending to do something.
What the F*ck does it matter if you are pounded by mustard gaz or large amounts of bombs (except that chemical weapons are somewhat lower tech than "conventional" weapons, so the risk of doing them "at home" is higher and it makes the was less profitable for the foreign weapon makers, how positively tragic ...)

Of course we are completely clueless about what we could possible do, the intervention in Libya for instance has just replaced one mean and cruel dictator with a dozen mean little would be dictators...

In reality the US lost all wars in the middle east when they agreed to let Irak introduce religion in their constitution, at that very point it demonstrated that democracy was dead in Irak and not even remotely the goal of the US occupation.
(And no it is not the specific type of religion that is at the issue, but the simple fact that something written/revealed/produced/inspired (take your pick) a long time ago would now be a base that cannot be deviated from for all future elected people's representatives....)

Re:And the asnwer is ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946935)

Iran wants a nuke because of the Iran-Iraq war, when the world looked away when Saddam Hussein used chemicals en-masse against Iranian soldiers and civilians alike. And I respect that.

Re:And the asnwer is ... (3, Interesting)

dkleinsc (563838) | about a year ago | (#44946981)

the end of the Arab Israeli conflict can only be solved in three ways,
- decide that palestine is all arab (and muslim)
- decide that israel is all isrealy (and jewish)
- decide that this vaguely federal country to be named is a democratic country with people of various ethnic and religious back ground who need to live together and the only way this can happen is to totally extirpate any reference to any specific religion, ethnic origin or "nation".

Choice one and two would mean lots of dead people, choice three would be seen as a "bad example" for the neighbours and protectors...

The thing is, that a lot of Americans would like to see choice 2, that Israel, including the entirety of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, be Israeli Jewish territory. This has a lot to do with conservative Christians who believe that the restoration of the Jews to Israel is a precursor to the Second Coming of Jesus, and also believe that Muslims are the Satanic forces they'll be battling at Armageddon. Some also have a goal of matching the borders of modern Israel with the borders described in the Book of Joshua and other texts that would eventually have Israel taking over the Sinai from Egypt, all of Lebanon, about 2/3 of Syria (up to the Euphrates), and a good portion of Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Iraq, in all cases kicking out or exterminating the Muslims living there and replacing them with Jews.

That kind of religious thinking is a major motivator of US-Israel relations, more than AIPAC (because there are other Jewish-American lobbying groups advocating different policies), more than the potential campaign donations from Jewish-Americans (again, there's significant divides among Jewish-Americans over the best policy for Israel), and more than what the government of Israel wants (the US has not been supportive of Israeli government efforts to remove settlers from the West Bank or Gaza, for example). Sure, their preferred policy would result in a lot of dead people, but from that crowd's point of view those dead people were irredeemably evil and thus should be killed at first opportunity.

Re:And the asnwer is ... (1)

dbIII (701233) | about a year ago | (#44947341)

It really should be no more of a US issue than Liberia but there is a lot of lobby money involved. Personally I think Israel would be a better place without the US propping up what is really far right wing xenophobic interests that their own grandparents would recognise as fascists. The country is not so much in danger since their immediate neighbours are basket cases and nobody more distant has anything of value to gain by attacking Israel in any serious way.

Re:And the asnwer is ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947109)

the near future two main issues are : " Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons, and the Arab-Israeli conflict ".

So that's cool, both problems have their roots in the 1920th and not looking close to any sort of solution, Iran can transform their nuclear industry into a chocolate factory as long as they do not give their petrol for "real cheap" absence of proof not being proof of absence it can still serve as a bogey man (and they do enough creepy stuff inside to make it hard for them to be really "liked"), and the end of the Arab Israeli conflict can only be solved in three ways,
- decide that palestine is all arab (and muslim)
- decide that israel is all isrealy (and jewish)
- decide that this vaguely federal country to be named is a democratic country with people of various ethnic and religious back ground who need to live together and the only way this can happen is to totally extirpate any reference to any specific religion, ethnic origin or "nation".

Choice one and two would mean lots of dead people, choice three would be seen as a "bad example" for the neighbours and protectors...

The problem with you're "choice three" is it would really become choice one. The Arabs have been pretty consistant over the past 65 years or so about their goals for Israel, and those goals do not include allowing Jews to live a free members of secular democracy. In fact, their goals pretty much consist of "drive the Jews into the sea"

By the way, why is Israel the only nation in the middle east which is expected to become a diverse democracy without reference to any specific religion, ethnic origin or nation?

Oh, that's right, because the world has a double standard for Jews.

We must spy on terrorist nations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946763)

We must spy on terrorist nations like Brazil which threaten the world with 140F temperatures by cutting down rainforest. Al Gore said so.

International Diplomatic Fallout? (4, Insightful)

Phoenix666 (184391) | about a year ago | (#44946805)

I would much, much rather see Washington DC pay a very high, very personal price for their rampant criminality and violations of the Constitution, as in all of them swinging from the trees that line the national mall and DC itself burnt to the ground with large letters scored in the ground with a bulldozer that say, 'Don't Tread On Me! ---The American People"

An angry speech by the president of Brazil is nice, but there need to be real consequences for these criminals.

Re:International Diplomatic Fallout? (1)

cusco (717999) | about a year ago | (#44947057)

Bolivia is suing the US in the International Court and other Latin American countries are expected to join. Not that the US gives a flying fuck about international law, but some people are going to have to be careful about where they travel.

Re:International Diplomatic Fallout? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947367)

I'm confident US will, and it will be in the form of lower interest rates on loans or cheaper jet fighters from Boeing. Or worse, Brazil will have access to some of the US spying resources. Of course, none of that will surface on the news or press releases, but both nations will make a generic joint statement about progress, democracy, and freedoms, and let bygones be bygones. Brazil's embassy might get some perks such as a party honoring someone or an art show. When that's satisfied, Dilma will make an official appearance at the White House. When that occurs, we'll know the hurt party has been fed some settlement money.

Re:International Diplomatic Fallout? (3, Insightful)

abhisri (960175) | about a year ago | (#44947631)

The real consequences are already happening. By Brazil making a "noise" about it now, it weakens US position regards other nations disregarding international laws. It runs the risk of say, other nations disregarding their Intellectual Property treaties with US. If US tried any actual actions to prevent this, they would just counter it by demanding punishment of concerned parties. Don't assume that US still has the clout it used to enjoy before. Think of China for example. USA just handed China a license to act in similar fashion against it, and it has by itself, undermined any ethical or moral position it could have had to prevent it.

Wisdom follows, pay attention! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946809)

Brazil is about to buy some 36 advanced fighter jets. The three short-listed candidates were Dassault Rafale from France, SAAB Gripen from Sweden and the Boeing-Northrop Super Hornet from the USA. The NSA-Roussef scandal essentially negated the F-18's chances to win the tender worth many billions. Now the race is only about good political relations (Rafale) versus lower price with higher economic offsets (Gripen). Boeing's workforce must be grateful for the NSA's efforts in protecting american jobs...

The anger is justified (4, Insightful)

ospirata (565063) | about a year ago | (#44946827)

The policy of saying "If it was anyone else than USA it would be worse" is simply ridiculous. Or even to mention concerns about terrorism to justify such spying.
As many are forgetting, let's summarize the real reason for such anger: industrial spying (towards Petrobras, Brazil's biggest company) and spying over a government with more than a century of friendly relations.
The article points this as well: "As host to the UN headquarters, the US has been attacked from the general assembly many times in the past, but what made Rousseff's denunciation all the more painful diplomatically was the fact that it was delivered on behalf of large, increasingly powerful and historically friendly state."

I hear ya (4, Insightful)

goodmanj (234846) | about a year ago | (#44946875)

Let me tell all of you from outside the U.S. that our government's excuse "hey, we're only spying on foreigners, not Americans" would be disgusting even if it weren't a pack of lies.

Re:I hear ya (2)

SirGarlon (845873) | about a year ago | (#44947043)

That's not really an excuse, it's a feint. Spying on American citizens is a violation of the US Constitution. Spying on foreign citizens is a violation of treaties. So the sleight-of-hand is to pretend that because spying on foreigners doesn't violate the Constitution, it's OK.

It would be more correct to say, because spying on foreigners is a treaty violation and not a Constitutional violation, American citizens lack the legal standing to challenge it in court. I'm not a lawyer, but I would guess that an international court would be the place to raise a complaint, and it would require a foreign government to file a case.

I have not heard of anyone doing that, but that may be just a case of the famously selective American media not deigning to inform me. Because OMG did you see Miley Cyrus shaking her booty?!

Re:I hear ya (1)

jittles (1613415) | about a year ago | (#44947321)

That's not really an excuse, it's a feint. Spying on American citizens is a violation of the US Constitution. Spying on foreign citizens is a violation of treaties. So the sleight-of-hand is to pretend that because spying on foreigners doesn't violate the Constitution, it's OK.

It would be more correct to say, because spying on foreigners is a treaty violation and not a Constitutional violation, American citizens lack the legal standing to challenge it in court. I'm not a lawyer, but I would guess that an international court would be the place to raise a complaint, and it would require a foreign government to file a case.

I have not heard of anyone doing that, but that may be just a case of the famously selective American media not deigning to inform me. Because OMG did you see Miley Cyrus shaking her booty?!

Can you state the names of the treaties that the NSA is specifically violating? While in general, I would say that what they are doing is reprehensible, I do not know of any treaty the specifically prevents us from spying on our allies or foes. It is generally frowned upon, and getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar causes all kinds of bad will, but it is something that has been going on for thousands of years.

Re:I hear ya (1)

SirGarlon (845873) | about a year ago | (#44947391)

Can you state the names of the treaties that the NSA is specifically violating?

No, and that's not my job. By now many people have said the NSA surveillance is a violation of international law. Presumably, those international laws are written down somewhere. We are still waiting for someone to take action to hold the US accountable.

Hypocrite States of America (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946893)

FUCK the US. I'm storing popcorn so I can watch their Empire crumble in this lifetime, and Imma enjoy it.

Re:Hypocrite States of America (3, Insightful)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#44947243)

The problem with large empires collapsing quickly rather than slowly is that those in the audience rarely get to live a life good enough to be able to enjoy it.

Bla bla bla (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about a year ago | (#44946905)

Until the rep/dem ruling party is voted out, all this chatter won't amount to hill of beans. American voters are responsible for this, but they all have their eyes set on Grand Theft iPhone...

Oh please oh please yes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946965)

Brazil is gonna go build their own internet. And get the fuck off the one used by the rest of the world?
Make it mandatory for your citizens to stay off the rest of the worlds internet too brazil!

Oh please let this happen. Global douche levels online will drop so hard.

Unfortunatly i think this is just more bullshit from a brazilian... Big empty talk from a country of douchebags.

Virginal Brazil (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44946983)

I'm sure Brazil doesn't conduct any espionage on its neighbors . . .I'm sure it just takes them all at their word.

Diplomatic fallout?!? (1)

tlambert (566799) | about a year ago | (#44947005)

Diplomatic fallout?!?

"the most serious diplomatic fallout to date from the revelations by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden"

Seriously? The problem is that Snowden revealed the spying, rather than the fact the NSA was spying via a dragnet in the first place?

Isn't this kind of like blaming the person who outs the pedophile for all the outrage against the pedophile?

Re:Diplomatic fallout?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947141)

The fact that the NSA was/is spying is the revelation by former NSA contractor Edward Snowden. So, no?

Re:Diplomatic fallout?!? (2)

Guru80 (1579277) | about a year ago | (#44947273)

I think you are not comprehending what was intended. This summary isn't blaming Snowden, it is crediting him with revealing what was going on.

Al Qaida is trying to organize more massacres (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947103)

across the USA, Europe, Africa, and countries in the Middle East. They are very, very good at keeping it quiet. However, to do it with the effect their leadership wants usually requires electronic communication. That's what the NSA and its European counterparts realize.

Re:Al Qaida is trying to organize more massacres (1)

Errol backfiring (1280012) | about a year ago | (#44947337)

[citation needed]. Oh, and off course you can totally counter such a threat by industrial espionage.

Put the shoe on the other foot (2)

jbrown.za (2935583) | about a year ago | (#44947165)

When looking at contracts, in many cases a good test of fairness is to swap the names on the contracts and see if both parties are still happy. I think this test would work well here as well:

United States president, Barack Obama, has launched a blistering attack on Brazilian espionage at the UN general assembly, accusing the ABIN of violating international law by its indiscriminate collection of personal information of US citizens and economic espionage targeted on the country's strategic industries.

Sounds pretty reasonable to me

President of Brazil doesn't understand how it work (1)

BitZtream (692029) | about a year ago | (#44947189)

Okay, you guys don't get this Internet thing. The Internet is a collection of private and public networks all connected together in a massive mesh.

You already own your own infrastructure. You already have your own Internet. If the US is spying on you in your own country, its because you're letting them by using US services and providing data to the NSA yourself. If your country laid a pipe to the US data centers for back feeding that data, its most certainly YOUR problem. There is absolutely no dependency on the US that you don't create yourself. The only possibly one you have is for .com/net/org/edu ... and thats already solved by .... .br and the fact that the US doesn't actually control all the root zone servers for DNS.

Drop routes containing AS numbers assigned to US companies, find the various AS numbers used by spy agencies located outside the US and drop those routes as well. Turn off any direct connections to the US. Problem solved. This isn't even a little bit difficult. Hell, I shut off countries selectively on a regular basis within my own Internet within my organizations departments. (Looking at you China), its trivial at the border routers.

This 'speech' is a posturing crock of shit. Wouldn't surprise me one bit if this is just like all the countries in the middle east that tell us how much we suck for doing things like Afghanistan and Iraq, or our treatment of North Korea, Syria and Iran publicly ... while privately begging us to blow those countries off the face of the Earth for them.

And whats really sad, at the time I'm writing this, it appears no one on slashdot understands how the Internet works either as all the posts seem to think that the US controls networks in other countries through some sort of magic.

Re:President of Brazil doesn't understand how it w (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947633)

It's not as easy as removing routes on the technical level when so many economic services rely on it, it's about removing that that economic dependency, that's a lot more difficult.

Good luck America ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947211)

Because the rest of the world is getting tired of putting up with your shit.

Your security doesn't trump our sovereignty.

Re:Good luck America ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947499)

as if this has anything to do with security

the rest of the world can get as tired of our shit as it wants; everyone knows that nobody has the balls to stand up to us in any meaningful way

Funny how.. (1)

darrellg1 (969068) | about a year ago | (#44947229)

there wasn't one major headline about this from a major US news source. Instead it was all about Iran. Our news media sucks.

The NSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947407)

is probably run by the same people that run the central bank - The Goldman Sachs, Meryl Lynch et. al. cartel hellbent on looting and pillaging the west to inflate the value of China who they invest everything in it seems these days. I guess they want people who are kind of racist against white people or non han, north east Asian generally to rule the world. It's the kind of anti-logic anti-morality one should indeed expect from a psychopath as these people apparently are.
Bye my kin sob sob. my victim complex. I can't help feeling it's some kind of master stroke by the East - get control of Americas's private banks, find a way to privatise the federal reserve, and then give themselves all the bounty. Or maybe Japan never intended to win WW II. They just wanted to galvanise a good victim complex to keep their people fighting and insecure of the knowledge of their supremacy so in the end they would be the only viable part of the world, responsibly run. It matters not - the West (most of her people) get boned whatever way u look at it. Also, that's one of the smartest thing a country could do if it got the upper hand over another. Convince its own people to smile and bow to the others and pretend they're inferior. All the while the other side is emboldened in the false belief that they won something and become increasingly lazy, and ignorant of whats going on around them. Then again, I sometimes feel that because I have to type everything with an s now instead of a z like organisation vs organization that British English and the crown took back full control of America. It's 'an' hospital now not a hospital. Or maybe Britain in turn got controlled by China. I have no idea, but it's certainly crazy and obfuscated enough so that I'll never truly understand. All I know is that the big buzz word with these people (at least was) is China and the century of China. So who runs China - can't help but feel China is the next America - an international cartel posing as a country...

Why whine? (1)

luttapi (312138) | about a year ago | (#44947617)

It makes no sense for the Brazilians or anyone else to go on whining about this. People who were too stupid to protect their own data got spied upon, thats all. If anything, it means that the US of 4'n A is an enemy of the rest of the world and should be treated as such.

Having been in Brazil, I can tell you she's a liar (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#44947713)

I used to live there until Lula came into power. Trust me, the Brazilian govt is watching you AND is doing international espionage. Oh, and maybe they can get something other than the same 4 cars doing surveillance on the US consulate in Recife.

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