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Redundant keys (0)

MightyYar (622222) | about 10 months ago | (#44958985)

My keyboard has two shift keys. He should have used one of those.

Re:Redundant keys (4, Interesting)

HaZardman27 (1521119) | about 10 months ago | (#44959027)

I find that at least I use both of the shift keys, unlike the right Ctrl, Alt, and Windows keys.

Re:Redundant keys (2)

killkillkill (884238) | about 10 months ago | (#44959167)

I had to look down and check. Wow, there is a set of those keys on the right.

Re:Redundant keys (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 10 months ago | (#44959171)

That Windows key was a relatively recent addition to PC keyboards. It seems to have been inspired by the Apple/Command key on Macs.

So I guess The early PCs could've used that space for the Start button Gates wanted - but then, what would they have called the button that's adorned the lower left corner of the Windows desktop since 95? What old song would've been used at the launch of Windows, since "Start Me Up" wouldn't have worked - the Beatles' "I am the Walrus"?

Re:Redundant keys (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | about 10 months ago | (#44959521)

Goo goo g'joob...

I believe Helter Skelter or Revolution #9 would have been a better choice.

Re: Redundant keys (2)

NadMutter (631470) | about 10 months ago | (#44959559)

They could have stayed with the rolling stones - "Can't get no satisfaction", "As tears go by", "All over now", "19th Nervous Breakdown". Or if they wanted to be ahead of the times - "Get off my cloud"

Re:Redundant keys (2)

TheCarp (96830) | about 10 months ago | (#44959367)

Let us not forget the list or menu key or whatever it is called. Hell, not only do I not use it, I can't think of many times I have even heard people mention it. At least right now in firefox it seems to have the same effect as a right mouse click, but I only know that because I just tried it.

Re:Redundant keys (1)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 10 months ago | (#44959467)

Seems to do absolutely nothing in Chrome. Also just tried for the first time ever.

Re:Redundant keys (4, Informative)

Smidge204 (605297) | about 10 months ago | (#44959529)

Hell, not only do I not use it, I can't think of many times I have even heard people mention it.

Woe betide you should you ever find yourself on a Windows machine without a mouse, then. Can't say I use it often but when I do I'm glad it exists.
=Smidge=

Re:Redundant keys (1)

MayonakaHa (562348) | about 10 months ago | (#44959531)

I actually use that one quite often since I work in the POS industry. Touch screens have no easy way to right-click so I tend to use that one a lot.

Re:Redundant keys (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#44959073)

You're supposed to use the left shift key when typing a character on the right, and the right shift key when typing a character on the left. Speeds things up considerably.

Re:Redundant keys (2)

nine-times (778537) | about 10 months ago | (#44959281)

No it doesn't speed things up considerably. The shift key on the right can easily be used with the pinky while otherwise typing normally, only inhibiting the speed of the keys that you would type with your right pinky. And what else do you hit with your pinky? The 'Enter' key? Backslash?

Re:Redundant keys (5, Funny)

Loughla (2531696) | about 10 months ago | (#44959357)

Semicolon; damnit; why don;t people use that one more often; I find it can replace all other punctuation;

Re:Redundant keys (1)

somersault (912633) | about 10 months ago | (#44959385)

If you're touch typing, then p [ ] ; ' # / { } : @ ~ and ?

So quite a lot. Especially if you're programming.

Re:Redundant keys (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 10 months ago | (#44959483)

You forgot |

Re:Redundant keys (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959089)

Basically, Gates didn't have a say in the matter. I personally never understood what the big deal was about the TFS. I'm sure it sucks for the handicapped but aside from that it's no big deal.

Re:Redundant keys (5, Funny)

MiniMike (234881) | about 10 months ago | (#44959399)

But people who type properly use both shift keys.

Many keyboards have a space between the Esc and F1 keys. I heard somewhere that to allow for adding undetermined capabilities later, they originally wanted to add another key in that space. As it would be for undetermined functionality, and to keep with the naming scheme of the other function keys, this key was to be labelled "FU". While the actual key was never adopted, it's spirit has lived on in every release of Windows.

Re:Redundant keys (1)

Joce640k (829181) | about 10 months ago | (#44959415)

Meanwhile, back on planet Earth, most people think it's one of the few things Microsoft did right!

There you have it. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959009)

Even bill gates does not approve of Ctrl+Alt+Del [cad-comic.com]

XT was a mistake (2, Interesting)

ruir (2709173) | about 10 months ago | (#44959029)

if we start thinking in what was wrong building a computer with 25 years technology then we would lost count of the mistakes. If it weren't for the backing of IBM, it would been an instant market failure.

Re:XT was a mistake (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959175)

Could you tell me what was wrong with it? It served me well for years.

So why continue it... (5, Funny)

nschubach (922175) | about 10 months ago | (#44959053)

Once they got the "Windows Key", why did they continue using the Ctrl + Alt + Delete?

Re:So why continue it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959145)

Because backwards compatibility.

Re:So why continue it... (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 10 months ago | (#44959151)

Because not everyone has one?
This keyboard does not. In fact I don't think I own any that do.

Re:So why continue it... (0)

Joce640k (829181) | about 10 months ago | (#44959437)

Indeed, it's one of the reasons that Windows 8 will never be installed on this machine.

Re:So why continue it... (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 10 months ago | (#44959519)

I don't use windows regularly, but does Win 8 now require it?

Re:So why continue it... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959161)

Because accidentally pressing the windows key in the middle of a game would shut down an entire computer instead of momentarily piss off a gamer.

Re:So why continue it... (2)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 10 months ago | (#44959285)

That's why I love my Logitech G11... it has a "game switch" that basically only serves to disable the Win key.

Re:So why continue it... (2)

jonathanjespersen (1162397) | about 10 months ago | (#44959335)

The article is only stating about using Ctrl+Alt+Del to log into Windows, not restart the computer. Changing the Windows login command to a single key (even the Windows key) would not have the effect you describe.

Re:So why continue it... (2)

robmv (855035) | about 10 months ago | (#44959181)

Because people would cry with petitions like "Give me my Ctrl + Alt + Delete back!, don't change things that works!" and everything your hear when someone try to do something different

Re:So why continue it... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959203)

Because they have branched off to different uses, C-A-D was already ingrained.
I don't see the issue with the 3 finger salute. You are not going to hit it accidentally unlike the windows key (or any other unique key). Being near impossible to hit accidentally it can be given override priority.

What about the Windows key? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959055)

Was it the same IBM keyboard designer that came up with the Windows and menu keys? They seem to "start" more things than CTRL+ALT+DEL.

Re:What about the Windows key? (1)

EvilSS (557649) | about 10 months ago | (#44959557)

Pretty sure neither of those came from an IBM keyboard designer and you're off by several decades anyway.

BSOD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959063)

Was a mistake... not ctrl alt del.

Re:BSOD (4, Interesting)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 10 months ago | (#44959301)

Would your rather your PC just turned off without any error message whatsoever? The BSOD is a useful tool... the mistake that causes it lies elsewhere.

Re:BSOD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959551)

And almost exclusively in third-party drivers.

So why is it used in Windows? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959065)

But why did Mr. Gates's company continue to use control + alt + delete for windows login screens?

Re:So why is it used in Windows? (5, Interesting)

jawtheshark (198669) | about 10 months ago | (#44959135)

Because Ctrl-Alt-Delete is non-interruptible. This way one could be sure it was truly the login screen and not something impersonating the login screen. At least, that's how I remember it. Could be urban legend.

Re:So why is it used in Windows? (2)

Austrian Anarchy (3010653) | about 10 months ago | (#44959267)

Because Ctrl-Alt-Delete is non-interruptible. This way one could be sure it was truly the login screen and not something impersonating the login screen. At least, that's how I remember it. Could be urban legend.

I coulda swore that the inventor of Ctrl-Alt-Delete said the same thing as you in an interview in the 1990s. Might have been in Wired? Could be in a link in the article that I didn't read too.

Re:So why is it used in Windows? (1)

home-electro.com (1284676) | about 10 months ago | (#44959389)

Perhaps, in the past.I seriously doubt that is still true. Modern USB keyboards have no special handling for C-A-D.

Re: So why is it used in Windows? (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959153)

Ctrl+Alt+Delete is, or was at least, a so called "non maskeable interrupt". This makes it harder for Trojan viruses to take over the login screen and steal your password.

Why was it a mistake? (0)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about 10 months ago | (#44959093)

Seems like something that would only look like a mistake to an Apple user who probably wants something more "elegant" like swipe-to-unlock. For the reason specified, it was a good decision (to use a low-level command to prevent password-stealing dupe login screens). I just think it's odd that they took login security so seriously and then fucked up so badly on all other parts of the OS.

Re:Why was it a mistake? (2)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 10 months ago | (#44959183)

Elegant? Ask an OSX user how to screenshot a window.

Re:Why was it a mistake? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959261)

cmd+shift+3/4, or launch grab.app. Given that you can remap any keycombo on the Mac readily and officially...

Re:Why was it a mistake? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 10 months ago | (#44959327)

You forgot the space. So 4 buttons to do one simple thing. Sure, and I remapped it to screenshot like it should be. That does not explain why it does not default to screenshot if someone plugs in a proper keyboard.
 

Re:Why was it a mistake? (1)

YttriumOxide (837412) | about 10 months ago | (#44959433)

cmd+shift+3/4, or launch grab.app. Given that you can remap any keycombo on the Mac readily and officially...

Actually for a window specifically, you'd want cmd+shift+4, followed by space, then click on the window.

It works really nicely and I use it a lot; but if you're not used to it, it's hardly 'intuitive' (especially as after cmd+shift+4, you find yourself able to select an area to grab, so are unlikely to assume there's anything else to press to change the behaviour).

Re:Why was it a mistake? (1)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 10 months ago | (#44959563)

It does not work really nice compared to just using the damn printscreen button + alt.

If someone plugs in a real keyboard it should just offer more reasonable options. Or here is a really crazy idea, but the damn buttons back on the keyboard. I have no need for changing volume, or brightness or keyboard backlight from the keyboard. Hell, that last one should just not be.

Re:Why was it a mistake? (2)

NatasRevol (731260) | about 10 months ago | (#44959533)

Which automatically saves it to the desktop as a jpg with a time stamp.

No stupid pasting into Paint & saving.

Re:Why was it a mistake? (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about 10 months ago | (#44959337)

Re:Why was it a mistake? (0)

h4rr4r (612664) | about 10 months ago | (#44959419)

I was not asking for an answer, I was pointing out the lack of elegance.
From your doc:

Command (âOE)-Shift-4, press the Space bar, move the camera pointer over the area to highlight it, and then click.

Sanity: Print screen plus one other button.

Re:Why was it a mistake? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959497)

At least in OS X you can take a screenshot.
In window you can put a screenshot in the cut buffer, then you have to open an image edit application that understands this so you can paste it.
Or paste it in a word document.

Re:Why was it a mistake? (1)

robmv (855035) | about 10 months ago | (#44959219)

No only other parts, on the same login screen [imgur.com]

Re:Why was it a mistake? (1)

RedK (112790) | about 10 months ago | (#44959469)

That is Windows 9x's login screen which could also be bypassed with ESC or just hitting Cancel in many cases. The CTRL+ALT+DEL login unlock was used on Windows NT, which does not use that login screen ;)

Re:Why was it a mistake? (1)

internerdj (1319281) | about 10 months ago | (#44959231)

Login security can be described in a couple of sentences, so it makes it nicely through the chain of command up to people who actually make decisions. A lot of security problems are simplified to just yelling Security! Security! by the time they are filtered to the decision makers.

I like it! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959109)

But Ctrl+Alt+Del is good! Now I admit it may be just force of habit, but I really like that key combination. Ctrl+Shift+Esc is one I can't stand and I really wish CAD was still used to open Task Manager on Win7, instead of that security center nonsense.

ADB (2)

bearded_yak (457170) | about 10 months ago | (#44959111)

I loved the power key on the old Apple ADB keyboards. I didn't enjoy the operating system back then, but I remember wishing PC's had such a key.

Re:ADB (1)

Austrian Anarchy (3010653) | about 10 months ago | (#44959311)

I loved the power key on the old Apple ADB keyboards. I didn't enjoy the operating system back then, but I remember wishing PC's had such a key.

All of my PCs had a "power key." More than one depending on how many power strips were between it and the wall socket :)

Re:ADB (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959363)

Some BIOSes on some hardware support a wake on keypress mode.

Why not SysRq? (0)

Rob the Bold (788862) | about 10 months ago | (#44959137)

Who cares if IBM's keyboard didn't "give them" a single key? Pick one that's essentially unused on a personal computer. SysRq, Scroll Lock, Pause/Break? I don't care. Actually, I don't care that they sued Ctrl-Alt-Del. I certainly never dropped a user manual on my keyboard that hit those three keys accidentally. I'm sure everyone here has a list of far worse design mistakes in Windows more serious than: "Why does the old reset pattern let me log in?" First one that comes to my find is "Why do I click 'Start' to stop?"

Re:Why not SysRq? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959227)

To initiate (read: start) the shutdown process.

COME ON (Gobs voice)

Re:Why not SysRq? (1)

KiloByte (825081) | about 10 months ago | (#44959309)

Pick one that's essentially unused on a personal computer. SysRq, Scroll Lock, Pause/Break?

Somehow, on an OS which has an use for Scroll Lock, I always use Ctrl-S/Ctrl-Q for this purpose anyway.

Same for Ctrl-C.

And SysRq is never used without Ctrl-Alt, and even that only if you mess with your kernel. Having any other key go as a part of that three finger salute would be just as good.

Re:Why not SysRq? (2)

moronoxyd (1000371) | about 10 months ago | (#44959371)

First one that comes to my find is "Why do I click 'Start' to stop?"

I guess every interface has such design fuck-ups.

I never used Mac OS but was told that you had (still have?) to drag the CD Rom or onto the trashbin to eject the drive.
That always sounded strange to me.

Re:Why not SysRq? (1)

0racle (667029) | about 10 months ago | (#44959549)

First one that comes to my find is "Why do I click 'Start' to stop?

shutdown is a process the system has to start. You basically are telling the OS to start the shutdown routine.

Also, organization.

It makes perfect sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959143)

To use Ctrl-Alt-Del to log in. IF there was a program that appeared to be the login screen, without using Ctrl-Alt-Del, it would have recorded your username/password. However, by using Ctrl-Alt-Del would have shown the malicious program.

Makes sense (5, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | about 10 months ago | (#44959165)

That was back when programmers were also engineers, and they realized the risk of accidentally hitting a single key and wiping the contents of RAM without saving. A complex key combination avoids accidents. I really don't see a problem with it. And considering that (most) keyboards still haven't evolved a "reboot" key, there doesn't seem to be great demand. Hell even the "Windows Start" key is probably the least utilized key on my keyboard, only good to tab me out of FPS games by accident and get me killed when I meant to hit Ctrl or Alt.

Re:Makes sense (2)

garyoa1 (2067072) | about 10 months ago | (#44959263)

The only way a single key would make sense would be to put it "under" the keyboard.

Re:Makes sense (5, Funny)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 10 months ago | (#44959505)

But then managers would hit it every time they went to change their password Post-It.

Re:Makes sense (1)

edawstwin (242027) | about 10 months ago | (#44959375)

You can always disable that key, or as at least one of my friends has done, remove the physical key from they keyboard.

Re:Makes sense (1)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 10 months ago | (#44959379)

I have a number of keys that are used far less frequently than the Win key... notably Scroll Lock, Pause/Break, Insert and, of course, Caps Lock. The least used key is probably the context menu key, which I've only ever used on systems with a malfunctioning or nonexistent mouse. I also rarely use most of the F keys... F4 and F5 are the only ones that see use on a regular basis.

Re:Makes sense (5, Interesting)

moronoxyd (1000371) | about 10 months ago | (#44959401)

I had a keyboard once with a dedicated start/shutdown key.

After shutting down my system a few times accidentally I threw that keyboard away.

Re:Makes sense (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959555)

It's the damn placement of the Windows key that is the problem. Couldn't they have just moved it to the upper part of the keyboard?

CIA Head: We Will Spy On Americans Through Electri (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959169)

CIA Head: We Will Spy On Americans Through Electrical Appliances

Global information surveillance grid being constructed; willing Americans embrace gadgets used to spy on them

Steve Watson | Prisonplanet.com | March 16, 2012

http://www.prisonplanet.com/cia-head-we-will-spy-on-americans-through-electrical-appliances.html [prisonplanet.com]

"CIA director David Petraeus has said that the rise of new "smart" gadgets means that Americans are effectively bugging their own homes, saving US spy agencies a job when it identifies any "persons of interest".

Speaking at a summit for In-Q-Tel, the CIA's technology investment operation, Petraeus made the comments when discussing new technologies which aim to add processors and web connections to previously 'dumb' home appliances such as fridges, ovens and lighting systems.

Wired reports the details via its Danger Room Blog[1]:

"'Transformational' is an overused word, but I do believe it properly applies to these technologies," Petraeus enthused, "particularly to their effect on clandestine tradecraft."

"Items of interest will be located, identified, monitored, and remotely controlled through technologies such as radio-frequency identification, sensor networks, tiny embedded servers, and energy harvesters - all connected to the next-generation internet using abundant, low-cost, and high-power computing," Petraeus said.

"the latter now going to cloud computing, in many areas greater and greater supercomputing, and, ultimately, heading to quantum computing." the CIA head added.

Petraeus also stated that such devices within the home "change our notions of secrecy".

Petraeus' comments come in the same week that one of the biggest microchip companies in the world, ARM, unveiled new processors that are designed to give practically every household appliance an internet connection[2], in order that they can be remote controlled and operate in tandem with applications.

ARM describes the concept as an "internet of things".

Where will all the information from such devices be sent and analyzed? It can be no coincidence that the NSA is currently building a monolithic heavily fortified $2 billion facility[3] deep in the Utah desert and surrounded by mountains. The facility is set to go fully live in September 2013.

"The Utah data center is the centerpiece of the Global Information Grid, a military project that will handle yottabytes of data, an amount so huge that there is no other data unit after it." reports Gizmodo.

"This center-with every listening post, spy satellite and NSA datacenter connected to it, will make the NSA the most powerful spy agency in the world."

Wired reports[4] that the incoming data is being mined by plugging into telecommunications companies' switches, essentially the same method the NSA infamously uses for warrantless wiretapping of domestic communications[5], as exposed six years ago.

Former intelligence analyst turned best selling author James Bamford, has penned a lengthy piece[6] on the NSA facility and warns "It is, in some measure, the realization of the 'total information awareness' program created during the first term of the Bush administration-an effort that was killed by Congress in 2003 after it caused an outcry over its potential for invading Americans' privacy."

[+]

Steve Watson is the London based writer and editor for Alex Jones' Infowars.net[7], and Prisonplanet.com[8]. He has a Masters Degree in International Relations from the School of Politics at The University of Nottingham in England.

(C) 2012 PrisonPlanet.com is a Free Speech Systems, LLC company. All rights reserved.

[1] http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/petraeus-tv-remote/ [wired.com]
[2] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-17345934 [bbc.co.uk]
[3] http://gizmodo.com/5893869/this-is-the-most-powerful-spy-center-in-the-world [gizmodo.com]
[4] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all/1 [wired.com]
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surveillance_controversy [wikipedia.org]
[6] http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/ [wired.com]
[7] http://infowars.net/ [infowars.net]
[8] http://prisonplanet.com/ [prisonplanet.com]

Guessing (1)

sls1j (580823) | about 10 months ago | (#44959179)

that Bill Gates wouldn't approve of emacs either.

Re:Guessing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959349)

Now there's somethign that Bill and the vi users agree on.

If Bill had his way (0, Flamebait)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about 10 months ago | (#44959191)

- only web search engine would be Bing and only available on Metro
- your cell phone would only work with skype
- web pages would only work with IE
- Internet would run NetBIOS, not TCP/IP
- all web servers would need to have a Xenix license
- web sites would be programmed in Visual Basic
- all crops would be grown with Monsanto seeds

Why would you want a single button??? (5, Insightful)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about 10 months ago | (#44959211)

A single button that, if hit, would reboot the system???? That's is the stupidest shit I've ever heard. If you hit it by accident, goodbye to your work. Remember that when you hit CTRL-ALT-DEL in DOS, it didn't even give you a prompt to shut down, it just rebooted. Who in their right mind would want that in a single key??

Re:Why would you want a single button??? (4, Funny)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 10 months ago | (#44959291)

Who in their right mind would want that in a single key??

Data recovery companies?

Re:Why would you want a single button??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959377)

RTFA, the mistake was re-using Ctrl-Alt-Del for the purposes of logging into Windows NT+.

Re:Why would you want a single button??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959405)

For those who didn't RTFA: he talks about Ctrl+Alt+Del for logging in, not rebooting.

Re:Why would you want a single button??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959409)

From TFA (emphasis mine):
"but the IBM keyboard designer didn’t want to give Microsoft a single button. So Microsoft decided to use “Ctrl+Alt+Del” as a way to log into Windows."

Gates never said anything about wanting one key to reboot the computer in this interview.

I know, I know. I'm posting as AC and I am referring to TFA, so no one will pay attention. But it is nice when the discussion is at least somewhat relevant.

Re:Why would you want a single button??? (2)

vrt3 (62368) | about 10 months ago | (#44959425)

This is not about Ctrl-Alt-Del to reboot; it is about having to press Ctrl-Alt-Del in Windows if you want to log in. This was implemented IIRC in Windows NT and Windows 2000, and in Windows XP if it was joined in a domain.

Re:Why would you want a single button??? (1)

jonathanjespersen (1162397) | about 10 months ago | (#44959431)

That button used to (and maybe still does) exist - but not on the keyboard. Many models of computers had reset/restart buttons next to the power button (and Turbo buttons). It was handy. I agree though that it shouldn't be on the keyboard.

Re:Why would you want a single button??? (0)

geek (5680) | about 10 months ago | (#44959495)

A single button that, if hit, would reboot the system???? That's is the stupidest shit I've ever heard.

Press the power button on your computer while it's running. Hey, look at that, a single button that shutdown the system.

Title is poorly worded (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959499)

The article isn't referring to the ctrl-alt-del reboot function. They are referring to the ctrl-alt-del login function (of Windows NT). The question is whether the submitter was honestly that careless, or did he deliberately put up a strawman to lure us in?

What about security against Microsoft? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959237)

"People are aware that Windows has bad security but they are underestimating the problem because they are thinking about third parties.

What about security against Microsoft?

Every non-free program is a 'just trust me program'. 'Trust me, weâ(TM)re a big corporation. Big corporations would never mistreat anybody, would we?' Of course they would! They do all the time, thatâ(TM)s what they are known for. So basically you mustn't trust a non free programme."

"There are three kinds: those that spy on the user, those that restrict the user, and back doors. Windows has all three. Microsoft can install software changes without asking permission. Flash Player has malicious features, as do most mobile phones."

"Digital handcuffs are the most common malicious features. They restrict what you can do with the data in your own computer. Apple certainly has the digital handcuffs that are the tightest in history. The i-things, well, people found two spy features and Apple says it removed them and there might be more""

From:

Richard Stallman: 'Apple has tightest digital handcuffs in history'
www.newint.org/features/web-exclusive/2012/12/05/richard-stallman-interview/

3-fingers are just fine (4, Interesting)

Alomex (148003) | about 10 months ago | (#44959239)

In my book that is the one thing they got right. It is a cumbersome combination as it should be since you do not want to reboot your computer by accident.

It still irks me how easy is to accidentally shutdown your computer in windows when all you are trying to do is putting it to sleep through the menu.

In programming languages this is called "syntactic salt" and it is used to implement powerful primitives that should not be used lightly.

Revisionist history (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959249)

Ctrl-Alt-Del was a thing *before* Windows. Microsoft made use of it because it was there. It made sense to use it as a login trigger by intercepting its function. Especially since doing so put the reboot function under the control of the OS, not the user.

Yes, I've only read the summary, not the article itself, but I suggest you read this in conjunction with it, or afterwards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ctrl_alt_del

Three finger salute? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959251)

... But I only have two middle fingers!

Re: Three finger salute? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959451)

Shocker

I hate single-button action keys anyway (1)

xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) | about 10 months ago | (#44959253)

I have kids. At times, they've randomly walked up to the keyboard and pressed keys. That's how I found out that one of my keyboards had a "moon" key, and that it magically shut down my computer - no prompting needed. And the number of times I've intentionally pressed the "Windows" key? Probably once a year.

Re:I hate single-button action keys anyway (2)

SJHillman (1966756) | about 10 months ago | (#44959547)

The sleep key to put a computer to sleep was pretty common on OEM systems for a while (especially Compaq), but I see it less often now on basic keyboards.

If you run Windows and never use the Windows key, you're missing out on a lot of good keyboard shortcuts.

Why would you (2)

nbritton (823086) | about 10 months ago | (#44959269)

Why on earth would you want a key on your keyboard to be a non maskable interrupt? Heaven forbid you mistype, or someone comes walking by and hits it. I'm going to have to side with IBM on this one. Also, what does C.A.D. have to do with starting a computer? It was only added to the Windows startup processes as a way to trick malicious programs into terminating.

Memorable quotes (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959277)

Memorable quotes for
Looker (1981)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/quotes [imdb.com]

"John Reston: Television can control public opinion more effectively than armies of secret police, because television is entirely voluntary. The American government forces our children to attend school, but nobody forces them to watch T.V. Americans of all ages *submit* to television. Television is the American ideal. Persuasion without coercion. Nobody makes us watch. Who could have predicted that a *free* people would voluntarily spend one fifth of their lives sitting in front of a *box* with pictures? Fifteen years sitting in prison is punishment. But 15 years sitting in front of a television set is entertainment. And the average American now spends more than one and a half years of his life just watching television commercials. Fifty minutes, every day of his life, watching commercials. Now, that's power."

##

"The United States has it's own propaganda, but it's very effective because people don't realize that it's propaganda. And it's subtle, but it's actually a much stronger propaganda machine than the Nazis had but it's funded in a different way. With the Nazis it was funded by the government, but in the United States, it's funded by corporations and corporations they only want things to happen that will make people want to buy stuff. So whatever that is, then that is considered okay and good, but that doesn't necessarily mean it really serves people's thinking - it can stupify and make not very good things happen."
- Crispin Glover: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000417/bio [imdb.com]

##

"It's only logical to assume that conspiracies are everywhere, because that's what people do. They conspire. If you can't get the message, get the man." - Mel Gibson (from an interview)

##

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William Casey, CIA Director

##

"The real reason for the official secrecy, in most instances, is not to keep the opposition (the CIA's euphemistic term for the enemy) from knowing what is going on; the enemy usually does know. The basic reason for governmental secrecy is to keep you, the American public, from knowing - for you, too, are considered the opposition, or enemy - so that you cannot interfere. When the public does not know what the government or the CIA is doing, it cannot voice its approval or disapproval of their actions. In fact, they can even lie to your about what they are doing or have done, and you will not know it. As for the second advantage, despite frequent suggestion that the CIA is a rogue elephant, the truth is that the agency functions at the direction of and in response to the office of the president. All of its major clandestine operations are carried out with the direct approval of or on direct orders from the White House. The CIA is a secret tool of the president - every president. And every president since Truman has lied to the American people in order to protect the agency. When lies have failed, it has been the duty of the CIA to take the blame for the president, thus protecting him. This is known in the business as "plausible denial." The CIA, functioning as a secret instrument of the U.S. government and the presidency, has long misused and abused history and continues to do so."
- Victor Marchetti, Propaganda and Disinformation: How the CIA Manufactures History

##

George Carlin:

"The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

You know what they want? Obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club.

This country is finished."

##

[1967] Jim Garrison Interview "In a very real and terrifying sense, our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society. Of course, you can't spot this trend to fascism by casually looking around. You can't look for such familiar signs as the swastika, because they won't be there. We won't build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line. We're not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find ourselves in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to work. But this isn't the test. The test is: What happens to the individual who dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was physically destroyed; here, the process is more subtle, but the end results can be the same. I've learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwellian world where the citizen exists for the state and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. I've always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Government's basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But I've come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, "Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism." I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."

##

"Everything we see has some hidden message. A lot of awful messages are coming in under the radar - subliminal consumer messages, all kinds of politically incorrect messages..." - Harold Ramis

Could have been worse than Ctrl + Alt + Del (5, Funny)

MiniMike (234881) | about 10 months ago | (#44959287)

I'm just glad we didn't have to do something like Ctrl + Alt + Del + F6 + Esc + (number pad) Enter for the same functionality.

Re:Could have been worse than Ctrl + Alt + Del (1)

DickBreath (207180) | about 10 months ago | (#44959527)

> I'm just glad we didn't have to do something like Ctrl + Alt + Del + F6 + Esc + (number pad) Enter for the same functionality.

As long as you would need to use both hands, your nose, and your, uh, um... other appendage in order to generate that non-maskable interrupt signal from the keyboard, you are unlikely to accidentally reboot.

Quotes to BURN in your MIND (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959317)

Memorable quotes for
Looker (1981)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082677/quotes [imdb.com]

"John Reston: Television can control public opinion more effectively than armies of secret police, because television is entirely voluntary. The American government forces our children to attend school, but nobody forces them to watch T.V. Americans of all ages *submit* to television. Television is the American ideal. Persuasion without coercion. Nobody makes us watch. Who could have predicted that a *free* people would voluntarily spend one fifth of their lives sitting in front of a *box* with pictures? Fifteen years sitting in prison is punishment. But 15 years sitting in front of a television set is entertainment. And the average American now spends more than one and a half years of his life just watching television commercials. Fifty minutes, every day of his life, watching commercials. Now, that's power."

##

"The United States has it's own propaganda, but it's very effective because people don't realize that it's propaganda. And it's subtle, but it's actually a much stronger propaganda machine than the Nazis had but it's funded in a different way. With the Nazis it was funded by the government, but in the United States, it's funded by corporations and corporations they only want things to happen that will make people want to buy stuff. So whatever that is, then that is considered okay and good, but that doesn't necessarily mean it really serves people's thinking - it can stupify and make not very good things happen."
- Crispin Glover: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000417/bio [imdb.com]

##

"It's only logical to assume that conspiracies are everywhere, because that's what people do. They conspire. If you can't get the message, get the man." - Mel Gibson (from an interview)

##

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William Casey, CIA Director

##

"The real reason for the official secrecy, in most instances, is not to keep the opposition (the CIA's euphemistic term for the enemy) from knowing what is going on; the enemy usually does know. The basic reason for governmental secrecy is to keep you, the American public, from knowing - for you, too, are considered the opposition, or enemy - so that you cannot interfere. When the public does not know what the government or the CIA is doing, it cannot voice its approval or disapproval of their actions. In fact, they can even lie to your about what they are doing or have done, and you will not know it. As for the second advantage, despite frequent suggestion that the CIA is a rogue elephant, the truth is that the agency functions at the direction of and in response to the office of the president. All of its major clandestine operations are carried out with the direct approval of or on direct orders from the White House. The CIA is a secret tool of the president - every president. And every president since Truman has lied to the American people in order to protect the agency. When lies have failed, it has been the duty of the CIA to take the blame for the president, thus protecting him. This is known in the business as "plausible denial." The CIA, functioning as a secret instrument of the U.S. government and the presidency, has long misused and abused history and continues to do so."
- Victor Marchetti, Propaganda and Disinformation: How the CIA Manufactures History

##

George Carlin:

"The real owners are the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians, they're an irrelevancy. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They've long since bought and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the statehouses, the city halls. They've got the judges in their back pockets. And they own all the big media companies, so that they control just about all of the news and information you hear. They've got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying lobbying to get what they want. Well, we know what they want; they want more for themselves and less for everybody else.

But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago.

You know what they want? Obedient workers people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it. And, now, they're coming for your Social Security. They want your fucking retirement money. They want it back, so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all, sooner or later, because they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club.

This country is finished."

##

[1967] Jim Garrison Interview "In a very real and terrifying sense, our Government is the CIA and the Pentagon, with Congress reduced to a debating society. Of course, you can't spot this trend to fascism by casually looking around. You can't look for such familiar signs as the swastika, because they won't be there. We won't build Dachaus and Auschwitzes; the clever manipulation of the mass media is creating a concentration camp of the mind that promises to be far more effective in keeping the populace in line. We're not going to wake up one morning and suddenly find ourselves in gray uniforms goose-stepping off to work. But this isn't the test. The test is: What happens to the individual who dissents? In Nazi Germany, he was physically destroyed; here, the process is more subtle, but the end results can be the same. I've learned enough about the machinations of the CIA in the past year to know that this is no longer the dreamworld America I once believed in. The imperatives of the population explosion, which almost inevitably will lessen our belief in the sanctity of the individual human life, combined with the awesome power of the CIA and the defense establishment, seem destined to seal the fate of the America I knew as a child and bring us into a new Orwellian world where the citizen exists for the state and where raw power justifies any and every immoral act. I've always had a kind of knee-jerk trust in my Government's basic integrity, whatever political blunders it may make. But I've come to realize that in Washington, deceiving and manipulating the public are viewed by some as the natural prerogatives of office. Huey Long once said, "Fascism will come to America in the name of anti-fascism." I'm afraid, based on my own experience, that fascism will come to America in the name of national security."

##

"Everything we see has some hidden message. A lot of awful messages are coming in under the radar - subliminal consumer messages, all kinds of politically incorrect messages..." - Harold Ramis

Generally yes it was. (the keys) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959423)

Mainly because it was a selection of keys that could be useful to another program but now it can't use it.
Using something odd like shift + capslock + some other key would have been better. Capslock doesn't suffer from rollover issues with other keys. (I've never came across it anyway and I use caps+keys for various contextual macros for programs)

The idea itself is not bad though. A system-level interrupt event like it is a very useful thing for doing various things, such as locking a UI, quick soft restart, system manager, whatever.

What about security against Microsoft? (+5 True) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959453)

"People are aware that Windows has bad security but they are underestimating the problem because they are thinking about third parties.

What about security against Microsoft?

Every non-free program is a 'just trust me program'. 'Trust me, we're a big corporation. Big corporations would never mistreat anybody, would we?' Of course they would! They do all the time, that's what they are known for. So basically you mustn't trust a non free programme."

"There are three kinds: those that spy on the user, those that restrict the user, and back doors. Windows has all three. Microsoft can install software changes without asking permission. Flash Player has malicious features, as do most mobile phones."

"Digital handcuffs are the most common malicious features. They restrict what you can do with the data in your own computer. Apple certainly has the digital handcuffs that are the tightest in history. The i-things, well, people found two spy features and Apple says it removed them and there might be more""

From:

Richard Stallman: 'Apple has tightest digital handcuffs in history'
www.newint.org/features/web-exclusive/2012/12/05/richard-stallman-interview/

What's wrong with it? (2, Insightful)

wcrowe (94389) | about 10 months ago | (#44959481)

I don't understand the problem. Ctrl+Alt+Del originally meant "reboot". That's obviously not something you want to do accidentally. If there's a problem it is in using the three-finger-salute for things other than reboot.

No, Caps Lock was the big mistake (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#44959537)

Caps Lock should've been a no-op placebo, like a lot of those pedestrian light-change request buttons at intersections.

Ctrl-Alt-Delete was actually a reasonable solution for the time, except maybe for certain handicapped users. Make sure the user never hits the reboot key by mistake.

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