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ISS Airlock Installed

michael posted more than 13 years ago | from the alright-HAL-I'll-go-in-through-the-emergency-airlock dept.

Space 130

Dada writes: "The crews of the space shuttle Atlantis and the International Space Station successfully installed the 'Quest' airlock to the ISS. The Canadian-built space station arm actually worked!"

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Re:US suits incompatible with Ru airlock. STANDARD (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#84089)

Well, considering it's basically a US space station with corporate welfare work farmed out to other countries for goodwill (thus the "International" in ISS) I think the Russians should be the ones bitched out here.

If Russians want to help, send MONEY, not people. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#84090)

NASA's major complaint against space tourist Tito, was that they would have to waste manpower baby sitting an inexperienced schmuck and make sure he stays out of trouble and doesn't fuck anything up.

This is the case with the Russians all the time!

The "makeshift russian airlock" has now been replaced with a US built one. See the duplication of effort here? Instead of NASA making decisions along the line of "the russians will do [task] because they are experts in that field", the discussion more resembles "How can we find some way to involve the russians, wheather they're needed or not?"

Space Station Alpha does not need to be the "international" space station. Sending people up there from various nations just to have people from various nations slows progress on the station itself. Keep the int'l politics to the floor of UN headquarters in NYC.

Re:So why can't Canada launch themselves into spac (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#84091)

They can't even play football right

Actually, some could argue its the americans who have basterdized our great sport of football. According to the clf's history section [www.cfl.ca] , The first football game was played in 1861 at the University of Toronto. Unless you can provide proof that the americans were playing football before then, I'm declaring that football is Canadian (like basketball and hockey).

(note to the europeans, what north americans call football is different then you, we call it soccer here).

The Canadian dollar once worth about USD$0.92 is now down only worth USD$0.64 (source: http://www.xe.com/).

And this is bad because?????

Having a weaker dollar makes our goods cheaper for Americans, and American goods more expensive to ous. Canada has a multi-billion dollar trade surplus. The result: though the american economy is in bad shape, Canada's economy is showing little signs of a slowdown.

Furthermore, it's not the Canadian dollar which has lost value, but rather the American dollar that has gained value. Versus currencies from the rest of the world, the Canadian dollar has been holding its own.

Canada can't get into space without hitching a ride on a more advanced nation's ship.

We've been sending satelites into space for years, including the first ever communications statelite. With manned missions, we decided to partner with the US, though they seem to be taking most of the credit for themselves. In the end though it doesn't matter as there's no point in duplicating efforts, and that is the point of the ISS.

It gets better (1)

Cardinal (311) | more than 13 years ago | (#84092)

NASA is considering scrubbing the Crew Return Vehicle (Escape pod) project, leaving them with no means of escape. Now let's talk about potential problems.

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (1)

shogun (657) | more than 13 years ago | (#84093)

Interesting I note among the MOOSEs features is that it carries radar chaff. Would that be to confuse unfriendly radar in case you are forced to reenter in a hostile area or to make a massive return signal in your general area so you can be located?

Re:An Airlock?!? (2)

Tim Doran (910) | more than 13 years ago | (#84095)

You mean like all those uppity Canadians? Thank god!

(Born and bred in Canada, myself ;)

Will you people grow up? (4)

drsoran (979) | more than 13 years ago | (#84096)

This is supposed to be an International Space Station. If everytime a module goes up we have to bash each other, or everytime a problem happens we have to single out what country made it, we're never going to get anything done. I'm really suprised rabid nationalism has lasted for this long. It really doesn't make sense in the 21st century for us to be constantly lambasting each other over the stupidest things. It's one thing to poke fun at each other for a good natured laugh but people actually take some of this shit seriously and harbor resentment towards other nationalities because of it. I don't have any problems with Canadians or any other country that isn't openly at war with my country. We're all states on this big blue planet... we really should learn to cooperate a little better than bickering children.

Re:Americans...... (2)

Chacham (981) | more than 13 years ago | (#84098)

What made you think this one was so special that you had to single it out as "actually" working?

I think that with all the publicity failure gets nowadays, and the rare reporting of success, anything even remotely spectacular that gets reported is considered amazing.



---
ticks = jiffies;
while (ticks == jiffies);
ticks = jiffies;

M-1A (2)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 13 years ago | (#84099)

It's not made in Turkey or Egypt. In fact, it's not made anywhere anymore since the line was shutdown and is now going to be retooled for the LAV-III AFV.

Remanufactured M-1s and M-1A1s are sold to Turkey and Egypt.

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (3)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 13 years ago | (#84100)

The X-38 hasn't been scrapped. It just had another very sucessful test flight.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/07/10/X38.tes t. flight/index.html

"It was an outstanding flight, probably the best one we had," said Alan Brown, spokesperson for NASA's Dryden Flight Research Center. "It went off without a hitch."

Unlike the space shuttle, the X-38 flies without wings. Instead, it uses the largest parachute ever constructed, with a span of 143 feet and a total surface area of 7,500 square feet.

Until the X-38 is in place on the space station, Russia will provide a Soyuz space capsule to act as a crew-return vehicle for astronauts."

Re:Americans...... (5)

Wyatt Earp (1029) | more than 13 years ago | (#84101)

Because it didn't work and had to have software patches.

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/station/stage7a/01 07 15fd4/

"After extensive troubleshooting, the most significant problem, one that intermittently affected operation of the arm's shoulder pitch joint, was traced to a glitch in a diagnostic circuit. Software patches were uplinked to mask out any such false signals and other contingency procedures were developed to handle virtually any arm problem that might develop."

As it was, it did work and NASA said as much.
""Those Canadians really know how to build great hardware, I'll tell you," Helms said of the Canadarm2 space crane."

There were some questions about the arm, so this one was special and it is new that it actually worked. The mission that is up there now was delayed because the arm was having issues.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/05/30/shuttle .d elayed.02/index.html

"During tests by space station crew members, Russian commander Yury Usachev and U.S. astronauts Jim Voss and Susan Helms, a backup electronics box near the arm's elbow failed to work properly. Efforts to fix the problem with software patches uploaded by ground controllers have failed."

You are the weakest link!! (2)

dustpuppy (5260) | more than 13 years ago | (#84104)

Imagine that gameshow being played in that room!

"YOU are the weakest link. Goodbye"

WHOOOOOSSSSHHHHHH!!!!!
ARGHHHHH!!!!!

Now that can fart in safety ... (3)

dustpuppy (5260) | more than 13 years ago | (#84105)

Yes, unfortunately I have to be juvenille, but if you fart in the space station, the air just gets circulated around doesn't it ... not a very pleasant experience for the other astronauts.

Now that they have the airlock, at least they can have a designated fart zone which they can later vent to outer space - problem solved!!

Geez, NASA thinks of everything! :-)

Re:Canada Arm... (1)

The Mayor (6048) | more than 13 years ago | (#84106)

Hmm...the A1-Abrahms tank is also made in Turkey and Egypt. I don't think the location of the factory has *anything* to do with the general quality of engineering or manufacturing from the country.

As for the Canada comment, I think that sarcasm is hard to portray in prose. Give him a break...and learn a sense of humor.

As for the space walks, bravo! Jim Reilly was my physics tutor in university, and there isn't a nicer and more capable man on the planet (or in space ;-)

Re:Yankees != Competent (1)

The Mayor (6048) | more than 13 years ago | (#84107)

Basketball...a sport Canada has dominated ever since its invention....tee hee...

Blame Canada!

Americans...... (4)

Vic (6867) | more than 13 years ago | (#84109)

The Canadian-built space station arm actually worked!

Canadians have been putting robotic arms in space for YEARS. What made you think this one was so special that you had to single it out as "actually" working?

Though I'm sure if something screwed up, you would have been quick to "blame Canada".

-Vic

They ran like sheep being chased by dogs (2)

Monty (7467) | more than 13 years ago | (#84111)

I think he meant Canada as in British North America... though the French Canadians fought also.

You're correct that Canada as it is known today didn't exist. But the people who fought the war would later be formally declared Canadians in 1867; our ancestors kicked some American "dumb ass", to use your own word.

Here's an interesting link:The battle (burning) of Washington [tripod.com]

Interesting parts as follows:

The British soon got word that the only troops standing between them and Washington were militia units. The main British force moved into a Washington suburb and after a brief battle the militia units broke and ran, in the words of one American observer: "They ran like sheep being chased by dogs."

Several hunderd U.S. sailors came ashore to fight but they could not stop the British advance for very long.

The military problems of Mr. Madison and his cabinet faced on the Canadian frontier were now being repeated at the door of the nations capital.

Once the battle had commenced Mr. Madison and the Secretaries of War and State decided it would be better to withdraw to a position in the rear.

Ahead of the President word shot back to Washington that all was not well. The British invasion force was now clearly in on the capital, the presidents wife Dolly Madison dashes of a note to her sister:

Will you believe it my sister, we have a battle or skirmish near the city. I am still within sounds of the cannons, Mr. Madison comes not. May God protect us. Two messengers come in and asked me to leave the capital, I must stay here and wait for my husband.

While Mrs. Madison showed great courage at the White House . Mr. madison was tracking down the Secretary of War to find out what steps were in the works to meet the final British assault, he was shocked and disheartened to find out there was no plan.

The 25th of August 1814, the British approached the heart of Washington, march down Constitution Avenue bearing a flag of truce and demand a surrender. Suddenly from a house window the flag of truce is fired apon.

The British troops rushed into the house where the shots had been fired from, and put all who were found in the house to the sword and then reduced the house to ashes. They went onto burn and destroy every building connected to the government.

While Washington burned, the president and his cabinet became fugitives fleeing westward deep into the hills of Virginia. At the White House Mrs. Madison was persuaded to leave also, and soon after the British troops arrived.

When these British soldiers who had been sent to destroy the President's house entered they found a dinner that had been made for about forty people. They ate every bit of food and drank every bottle of wine, then started to destroy the White House.

Washington D.C. the capital of the United States was a city on fire, what had started two years earlier as the invasion and conquest of Canada had now turned into a defensive war.

Indeed, the United States were humiliated.

Re:US suits incompatible with Ru airlock. STANDARD (2)

philj (13777) | more than 13 years ago | (#84112)

Erm, they needed this airlock... From a BBC news story: "Up until now, whenever astronauts on the ISS have needed to go outside the platform, they have had to go through a docked space shuttle. Unlike the orbiter, the station does not have a proper airlock to allow astronauts to safely make the transition from a pressurised environment to the vacuum of space."

(From http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1 439000/1439568.stm [bbc.co.uk] )

Re:Now that can fart in safety ... (1)

arkham6 (24514) | more than 13 years ago | (#84120)

Unfortunatly your wrong. I was watching NASA TV, and they were talking about how the airlock actualy is two parts, so they can pump the air out back into the station, then open the door to space. They say this is supposed to save a lot of weight on resupply missions, and a lot of money

So any farts that are released are kept in the station.

What's interesting is... (2)

Jon Chatow (25684) | more than 13 years ago | (#84121)

... that the ISS was launched /without/ a way of doing EVAs. I mean, just think of the potential problems...

How you say, "Cana-darm?" (1)

mumkin (28230) | more than 13 years ago | (#84123)

I've never heard anyone pronounce the word "canadarm, " though I've read it often enough. I'm just wondering... is it "Canada-RUM" or "Canad-ARM" ? I'm betting on the latter, but I honestly don't know.

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (1)

LetterRip (30937) | more than 13 years ago | (#84124)

Could you please email me offlist?

I have some questions for you that I'd prefer not to post to /.

Thanks,

LetterRip

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (1)

jmauro (32523) | more than 13 years ago | (#84125)

Except it has been gutted and now the hull sits in the middle of the Smithsoninan Air & Space Annex in Dullas. I doubt they'd want to give it up. Besides, the Enterprise really, really wasn't complete. It had no sheilding, no engines, and not much else. It was a glorified glider.

Suprise...not really (2)

yani (50270) | more than 13 years ago | (#84128)

It's not much of a suprise since as I recall the problem with the Canadarm 2 was a backup system anyway, baring any major problems the arm would of worked wthout the fix, but of course in a space environment a piece of equiptment without a backup system is not a good idea, especially with the costs of sending any replacments parts and not being able to get a multi-million job done.

Of course there were probably a lot of Canadians (including me) that were crossing their fingers ;), but hey I'm sure a lot of Americans do to every time a shuttle launches!

Re:Artificial gravity via centrifugal force etc. (2)

stienman (51024) | more than 13 years ago | (#84129)

You wouldn't do this on the current space station. It is orbiting earth, and has an 'up' and a 'down' (ie, it has a face always pointing towards Earth) and several aspects fo the station depend on this relationship.

If you start spinning something on the station, the station (or major parts of it)could not twist or rotate (think gyroscope) without severe stress on various joints unless you made it so it does not turn at all as it spins around the earth.

-Adam
This sig 80% recycled bits, 20% post user.

Re:Colder than New Hampshire? (2)

Dwonis (52652) | more than 13 years ago | (#84130)

... Canada, a nation that hadn't rebelled against the rule of the king ...

That's what YOU think. We just waited for you guys to spend tons of resources fighting the British, then when they were defeated and weak, we said "Oh yes, we want sovereignty too, may we have it?"

Given that the Brits had already had enough of "those crazy Americans", they said, "Yes, yes. Get out of our faces!"

We let you poor suckers fight our war for us! I call that tactical genius! ;-)


------

Re:so.. (2)

Dwonis (52652) | more than 13 years ago | (#84131)

Bah! The only thing you'll get is Ontario and Quebec. The rest of us will beat the living hell out of you! :)
------

Re:Now that can fart in safety ... (2)

Dwonis (52652) | more than 13 years ago | (#84132)

Actually, no. The new airlock recovers most of the air...
------

Re:Whine, Whine, Whine! (1)

www (58894) | more than 13 years ago | (#84133)

Canadians have a show up here called "Talking to Americans"
It was really a one-time special.
where a guy goes down to the states and asks ordinary people about Canadian people, history and politics, and when the Americans don't know the answers Canadians have a big laugh and we feel better about our country and ourselves because we're not as stupid as the Americans.
Not only ordinary people, Rick Mercer (spelling?) also asked State governors, and university professors, etc.

Like asking political students about Prime Minister Tim Horton's "double double" (Tim Horton's is a Canadian fast food chain - American's would likely not know), which Rick claimed was getting support of both sides of congress (in Canada, a bill passes through parliament first, this is where the Prime Minister is involved [he also appoints congress-people]) (Canadian congress has not rejected a bill for a long time (many years), if I am not mistaken),

Some Americans also saluted "our Eskimo neighbours to the south"...,

sang the national anthem: Oh Canada! A great big empty land. We look to America For a helping hand. ... La la la la (they actually sang this part) ...,

respected that the United States may have to bomb the mall in West Edmonton (West Edmonton Mall),

and were disgruntled that a Canadian corporation owns the mining rights to Mount Rushmore.

Though they did show some knowledgeable Americans:
-One guy knew the Montreal Canadians.
-One young kid knew that Canada has provinces instead of states

As well, I am pretty sure they picked the minority of Americans that would bite on such mis-information.

It "actually worked"? (1)

Sir Joltalot (66097) | more than 13 years ago | (#84134)

WTF do you mean the Canadian-built arm "actually" worked? You think only Yanks can build robotics or something? I'll give you a few clues as to the nature of Canada and Canadians:

(1) We do not all live in igloos. I live in a house, like many throughout the world, that has central heating, running water, electricity and cable internet (for $40 Canuck bux a month, beat that).
(2) We have education, and it works. And we don't have to pay outrageously for it. I've heard numerous atrocious statistics about education in America, that 70% of high school graduates can't write a simple business letter and so on. Tuition here maxes around $5k/yr (Canuck bux) for post-secondary and earlier education is *free* and generally good (I got a full IB diploma in a *public* school where many teachers had master's degrees).
(3) Most of the time, our students don't shoot each other, either, because we have a little thing here called "gun control" and we aren't all wack about the right to carry lethal, (and in some states) concealed weapons.

So you can see that Canada is in fact a fairly modern state, where people can *afford* a good education and where they can survive to get it. So it is only quite natural that we can build a robotic arm that "actually" works, thank you very much.

And, I know this is gonna be modded flamebait. Fine. But shame on you slashdot for actually posting flamebait on the main page.. I mean people are entitled to their beliefs, racist or otherwise, but posting controversial, racist statements on the main page will only encourage that behaviour.. something I doubt slashdot wishes to do.

Re:hurt feelings? (2)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | more than 13 years ago | (#84136)

> I can see how all the canadian /.'ers out there would be offended by such a laim attemp at humer

Speak for yourself. Most Canadians couldn't give a shit BECAUSE the American/Canadian humor is more like friendly siblings teasing one another.

Re:They ran like sheep being chased by dogs (1)

RTMFD (69819) | more than 13 years ago | (#84137)

You mean that Canada is still a soveriegn nation and not the 51st state? That's news to us south of the border :)

Join us, it is your destiny....

Re:so.. (1)

rtaylor (70602) | more than 13 years ago | (#84138)

haha.. you know that Missle defense thing you folks are working on wouldn't do much against an attack from your neighbour to the north. The lines in the wrong place...

IIS Airlock? (1)

kakibesar (72526) | more than 13 years ago | (#84139)

So Microsoft finally did one thing right and fixed all them IIS bugs.

Re:Will you people grow up? (1)

grimmy (75458) | more than 13 years ago | (#84140)

Bravo! That was very well said. We need a few of you in every country/province (or state)/city/town/etc's government. If that was the case, things like free trade would work a little smoother, all the political bickering would be cut back, and hell maybe there's wouldn't be as much fighting :)

Go with shuttles (2)

jhines (82154) | more than 13 years ago | (#84141)

Launch a shuttle, with minimal crew, and leave it up there for a few months, until the next one comes, and send it back.

There were some rumors that NASA wanted to idle a shuttle, this would be a way to do it.

But yes, NASA needs more funding for these continuing operations.

Isn't that a bit like (1)

MattGWU (86623) | more than 13 years ago | (#84142)

Trying to sell refridgerators to Eskimos?

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (2)

cybrpnk (94636) | more than 13 years ago | (#84143)

This is the last time, I promise. The karma points dangling in front of me made me do it.

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (2)

cybrpnk (94636) | more than 13 years ago | (#84144)

A moderator that hasn't seen the boilerplate before won't think it's redundant because to her it will be original. Ditto for a lot of viewers. If you've read this before, scroll onward. The real sin is not redundancy, it's off-topic. This isn't off topic.

Re:Go with shuttles (2)

cybrpnk (94636) | more than 13 years ago | (#84145)

If a shuttle could be left up there for a couple of months, it would have been done by now and we would never have built the station. The shuttle launches with a fixed amount of liquid oxygen and hydrogen in its tanks. This is combined in the fuel cells to make electricity and waste water (in what is effectively reverse electrolysis). The waste water is pumped thru the Orbiter to pick up waste heat and then vented overboard, carrying the waste heat with it, via the radiators on the inside of the payload bay doors. This process is why opening the payload doors is the first thing that's done upon reaching orbit. Failure to open the payload doors (which has never happened) would be an automatic abort situation because it would get real hot inside, real fast. Basically the orbiter carries enough liquid oxygen and hydrogen for three weeks or less. I think the longest mission so far was 16 days and they still had their emergency reserve of another day or two at that point. Next the obvious question is "Why not carry extra liquid oxygen and hydrogen in the payload bay?" Answer - the Station is in such a god-forsaken orbit to allow Russian participation that the Shuttle payload capability to this orbit is severely reduced. This is the main thing that has driven costs so high - a lot more Shuttle flights are required now than in the original plan just to get the same amount of stuff up there, but at least we got Rusian participation...

Re:bahahahaha (2)

cybrpnk (94636) | more than 13 years ago | (#84146)

Actually, I am very much in favor of using extraterrestrial resources to enable vastly cheaper spaceflight efforts. Again, the near-term concept farthest along in this vein is Mars Direct [nw.net] . See also Gerrold K. O'Neill's work, The High Frontier [slashdot.org] ...dated, but not refuted. America's and NASA's political interests have diverged from these paths, and I hope they or someone else will return to them.

Re:PLEASE MOD DOWN THIS TROLL (2)

cybrpnk (94636) | more than 13 years ago | (#84147)

Actually, only the third time, and over something I feel very strongly about...I'm not trolling!!! But I'll be a good little boy and try to be original from now on....

Re:Station versus Mars (2)

cybrpnk (94636) | more than 13 years ago | (#84148)

Really, it's a sad situation

Amen.

Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes .. (5)

cybrpnk (94636) | more than 13 years ago | (#84149)

The Space Station is SO big that the current crew of three is run ragged trying to keep the systems maintenance going - there is NO TIME for ANY science at present. That fact is putting NASA in danger of having to cancel the whole thing [spaceflightnow.com] ....

This won't change until we get a crew escape vehicle (currently the Russian Soyuz, a 30-year-old design) that can carry more than three people back. Guess what - there isn't even a funded plan to build such a vehicle!

What about using two Soyuz capsules? That's the obvious solution but the Soyuz has a limited lifetime on orbit and has to be exchanged fairly regularly. That's why Tito was able to get to space as a tourist recently...it was a Soyuz changeout mission and they really only need a crew of two to fly that. The problem is that to have crew escape for 6 (ie, two Soyuz) then you have to fly twice as many changeout missions and the Russians are stressed out trying to keep up with the changeout missions they are currently assigned. Plus in order to dock two Soyuz capsules at once would require another docking node, and nobody wants to pay for building that and taking it up - $1 billion at least, $500M to build it and $500M to launch it on a Shuttle mission that isn't available - they are all booked on previously scheduled construction flights. Plus if you had two Soyuz capsules docked it would tremendously complicate Shuttle ops around the station - mission rules call for keeping clear of the Soyuz capsules both spatially on orbit and schedulewise during their changeouts. It could be done, but the problems just snowball when you look at the two Soyuz option...

When I started working on Station in the mid-80s, the dreams were high. We were going to provide ultra-pure water, on-orbit X-ray machines to analyze fragile protein crystals grown in zero-G that would never survive reentry, animal cages and discection capabilities (imagine handling mouse litter and blood drops in orbit!), freezers and microscopes and video links, centrifuges to grow wheat in lunar gravity levels and corn in Martian gravity levels - plus all the solar cells and heat radiators to run all of this stuff - run by astronauts living off of a closed life support system that would be a dress rehersal for a Mars mission.

Well, the ugly reality of $10,000 per pound to orbit reared it's ugly head, the Cold War ended and the project had to include the Russians, the mission orbit was changed to let Russian rockets barely get there at the expense of halving what a US Shuttle could get there from a Florida launch, the life support system is basically scuba tanks of air and there's no lab equipment to speak of or crew time to run it if there was any. I guess the only thing left to do is turn a module into a film backdrop for recording fantasy dreams....

I hate to say it, but I can hardly wait for NASA to declare the Space Station a rousing sucess, bring the last crew home and deorbit the damn thing. Only then can we get on with establishing a lunar base or doing something like Zubrin's Mars Direct [nw.net] where we escape the tyranny of having to drag up every single pound of stuff we use at hideous cost and start using extraterrestrial resources instead.

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (1)

tonywong (96839) | more than 13 years ago | (#84150)

Because they're working on those big black dot patches that will teleport them into another spot.

The only problem with the dot patches is that they keep exitting onto roads and train tracks. ACME space research is looking into it...

Eh? (2)

leifw (98495) | more than 13 years ago | (#84151)

The Canadian-built space station arm actually worked!
Eh? What are you saying abut [sic] Canadians, hoser? Eh?

Re:And in other news... (1)

mazur (99215) | more than 13 years ago | (#84152)

the canadian arm installed on ISS, seems to be missing a finger. A Nasa employe was heard mumbling something about canadain engineers, comics and four fingers...

Sources in the NASA have corroborated this story, but other sources imply, that the NASA engineer in question had personally detached the middle finger of the arm after some sort of gesture he perceived upon uttering a derogative remark towards "kanucks".

Stefan.

Re:Americans...... (2)

mazur (99215) | more than 13 years ago | (#84153)

Apologies, I just can't resist.

But I hear the astronauts have trouble understanding the controls as they are labeled with strange markings, "haute", "bas", "gauche", "droit", "ouvrez", "fermez", WTF?

I'd guess these wouldn't be the same guys that had no problem with meters and feet (in mouth?) while putting a lander on Mars?

Stefan.

Qwest Airlock: Flate rate or monthly fee? (3)

Wag (102501) | more than 13 years ago | (#84154)

And do they get a discount if they use it more than 60mins a month?

Re:Americans...... (1)

Clived (106409) | more than 13 years ago | (#84155)

Amen to that. Canadian expertise in space robotics, is well respected in the engineering world. I wish some of these kids would not show there immaturity and/or ignorance by these posts in a public forum.
My 2 bits ... :P

Re:so.. (1)

hexx (108181) | more than 13 years ago | (#84157)

No, Canadians and Americans are good friends - we just like to tease each other.

Oh, and Canada will be the 51st state in a few years when we Americans run out of natural resources.
:)

Colder than New Hampshire? (1)

Robber Baron (112304) | more than 13 years ago | (#84158)

Not where I live. In fact, there's parts of Texas that get more snow than we do on the West Coast (about 1/2" last year).

Yay Canada!!!! (1)

elmer-12 (117845) | more than 13 years ago | (#84159)

I am sincerely proud of our continuing success in space. It looked a little scary for a while when they were trying to get this thing set up and there was a screw missing or something. That reminded me too much of IKEA. It's fun to have the station's biggest appendage.

Re:I'm sorry... (1)

Zorkon (121860) | more than 13 years ago | (#84162)

Uhhh...

Ignorant American person, who do you think built the robot arms on the current shuttle fleet? You know, the Canadarm? Made in Canada? Worked without a hitch over the entire shuttle program?

Dork.

Re:Canadian Arm (2)

Zorkon (121860) | more than 13 years ago | (#84163)

Ah. Troll.

Give me a break buddy. "We should just turn Canada into a State"? What makes you think you have the right to force your will on another country? No, let me guess, something to do with a large army, nuclear weapons, and country music no doubt.

Go back to polishing that gun rack in your pickup.

We did it eh? (1)

Warshadow (132109) | more than 13 years ago | (#84164)

We did it eh? I toold yoo we wouldnt muck it up eh? ;)

reminds me of a movie (1)

yzquxnet (133355) | more than 13 years ago | (#84165)

Reminds me of a line in 'armaggedon' where the Russion cosmonaut bangs on the equipment to fire it and say "American components, Russian components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!"

No sense blaming anyone because I bet a lot of things are made oneplace else and assembled at another place.

Re:Station versus Mars (1)

dpilot (134227) | more than 13 years ago | (#84166)

One of these days I'll pick it up, again. As I said, it's not thrown out. (That would be a waste)

On a side note, but a more underlying one... Purity can be good, but must be tempered with some sense of reality. In my day job of engineering I try to walk that balance. On the one side, you try to make sure your work has sound theoretical underpinnings, and would hold water in the textbook fashion. On the other side, there's Einstein's quote about mathematics and reality, and the need to realize that a 'theoretically perfect' engineering solution probably wouldn't work in the real world.

I suspect this is as true in politics and other pursuits as it is in engineering. If Zubrin hates waste, he can hate a non-Shuttle-C space station all he wants, until it's on-orbit. As soon as it's up there, no matter how much the process may have been hated, it's a waste not to use it where appropriate.

I agree that the current ISS staffing and mission is completely absurd. But it's the most expensive collection we've ever put up, and to let it fail/fall has political repercussions that would probably kill USA non-military manned space activity in my lifetime. (I agree the long term may be different, but I have to be concerned about the progress I get to see.) We should focus on what the best use we can make of what is up there.

I also thought the X33 was a rather interesting design point. From what I can see, NOTHING in the way of SSTO would possibly survive the committee of public opinion, considering what I've seen in the sci.space.* newsgroups. Everyone has their pet project ideas, and the only thing they hate worse than any of the others is anything contracted by NASA or done by current big-aerospace.

Really, it's a sad situation.

I quit reading Zubrin's book because... (3)

dpilot (134227) | more than 13 years ago | (#84168)

it seemed to be only half about going to Mars. The other half seemed to be another diatribe against the space station. Maybe I didn't read far enough, but I haven't thrown the book away, only set it aside. Zubrin seemed to have as big an anti-space-station blindspot as those he accused of having a must-use-space-station blindspot.

My frequent watchword in my posts is, "Be careful what you ask for," and I invoke it here, too. If the space station is declared a success, and then de-orbited in less than 10 years, everyone will see the truth just like they saw that Nixon's "Peace with honor" was nothing but bugging out of Viet Nam. (I'm not debating what we should have done, just trying to properly name what we did.)

Whether you like it or not, we're into the ISS for a pile of money, and it's reputation is going to rub off on all manned spaceflight. Shutdown and deorbit the ISS in less than 10 years, and you may as well shut down manned space in the USA.

Some of you applaud that goal, thinking robot science is better. Well, there's little point in running a NASA-like organization for robot science. If NASA manned space is shut down, I suspect NASA itself would be effectively shut down, and then we'd wander for the better part of a decade trying to figure out a way to do robot space science. Not that it's that hard, but that we don't have mechanisms or organizations in place to do it.

Besides, you won't energize generations of kids to go into science based on robot missions.

I'd rather see us find more sensible missions for the ISS we have up there, and adapt it to them. For instance, why do we constantly fold our robot science probes up into tiny cylinders, and then get mad when they don't unfold right. (Antennas, anyone?) Imagine taking a standard B-size truss, bolting a standard outer-planet antenna on it, bolt one of a standard series of engines on, bolt on the custom science package, give it a dynamics test (spin-test for balance, essentially) and GO. Zubrin wanted direct launch to Mars, bypassing the space station. But it's THERE, and is no longer a serial expense, so why not use it? That doesn't mean orbital assembly necessarily. But I suspect we could go a long way toward assembling a Mars mission built out of a few smaller spacecraft docked together, using near-ISS as a staging place. Perhaps the ISS isn't the best orbit for this, but at least it's not polar.

Canadians (2)

No Such Agency (136681) | more than 13 years ago | (#84169)

Well, we're maybe more like the slightly geeky, skinny younger sibling. Our older brother/sister is sometimes pretty nice, but as often as not says deeply hurtful things and doesn't seem to care how much their punches on the arm hurt us. Not to mention the bargains: "eat these worms and I'll give you a dollar... don't eat them and I'll pants you at school"...

Of course our space arm worked! That's one of our "niches" in space so far, and we do it damn well. Oh, and thanks to the rest of the world for building shuttles and stations to put the things on ;-)

Re:Canadian Arm (1)

WereTiger (148010) | more than 13 years ago | (#84170)

Hey, We've got Nuclear weapons too! (shhhhh, don't tell anyone though) Canada's too good to be just another American state. and I can't believe we lost #1 place to Norway and #2 to Australia! (in the 'best place in the world to live ratings) sheesh.

Re:Now that can fart in safety ... (1)

narzy (166978) | more than 13 years ago | (#84171)

the air is filtered if you fart no one knows the methane is filtered so quickly that you dont have time to smell it. farting is a natural part of life if it just stayed there it would make a very explosive situation very quickly. and airlock pump the air back into the vehicle befor they open, if there was air in the air lock no matter how miniscule the door could no be opened. the positive pressure would keep it shut.

Re:It's about time.... (1)

RadioTV (173312) | more than 13 years ago | (#84172)

Actually, the Americans probably would have built it on time and on budget. But it is supposed to be international so we couldn't do it all.

Re:Colder than New Hampshire? (1)

dadragon (177695) | more than 13 years ago | (#84173)

That means nothing. She doesn't even have much power in Britain. Explain to me why it makes us un-free.

...the Russian makeshift airlock... (2)

jeko (179919) | more than 13 years ago | (#84176)

Twenty-one of 22 spacewalks performed at the station to date have been staged from shuttle airlocks. The other took place within a spherical section of the station's Russian-built crew quarters, which can be converted into a makeshift airlock.

How well would you sleep tonight knowing that your bedroom could also be used as a "makeshift airlock?"

Re:Americans...... (1)

madumas (186398) | more than 13 years ago | (#84177)

It's not the software that was the problem. A chip failed. The backup system was still working, but they wanted to run the arm with full redundancy so they changed the software as a workaround.

It was already discussed here: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/05/30/233623 3&mode=thread

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/06/15/173621 6&mode=thread

Re:I'm sorry... (1)

ckedge (192996) | more than 13 years ago | (#84178)


> You know, the Canadarm?

Actually, I've *never* heard it called by that term outside of Canada. That is until very very recently. Thus it wouldn't supprise me in the slightest if no average person outside of Canada knew that the arms were made in Canada.

I was actually supprised to hear a Nasa commentator use the term "Canadarm" (wrt the shuttle arm) a short while ago, and I figure it's a recent change due to the clear prominence of the fact that the station arm is also made in Canada. I always wondered if they avoided the term in ages past for semi-political reasons, and now I'll wonder if they started using it recently for new semi-pollitical reasons. Of course maybe in ages past they were simply being technically accurate, using the formal technical term, and recently simply being enthusiastic about the International aspect of the endeavour.

Canadian stuff works (1)

zoftie (195518) | more than 13 years ago | (#84179)

Simpsons, South Park and other Hollywood
inspired productions will tell you otherwise.

No its not -40C over here, and Igloos are not
the most common type of the house.
More like we live in houses and most wires
connectiong them are ones carry lots
of information and even then some.

Go Canada!

Canada Arm... (2)

dfenstrate (202098) | more than 13 years ago | (#84180)

"The Canadian built space station arm actually worked!"
What is that supposed to mean? Of course it worked! Admittedly, NASA has had a few difficulties with space station components, but all have worked more or less as intended. When you're spending several thousand per kilogram to send something up into space, you're damn well gonna make sure it works before sending it up.
Incidentally, did anybody ever tell you that all the shuttles manipulator arms all came from Canada? I'm sure whatever company it is up there has the knowledge from making those for our birds.
Also, our A1- Abrahms main battle tank is made in Canada, as are Fords Crown Vics, and a few other cars. They all work very well.
Sure, our neighbors to the north may base their national pride on the notion that they aren't the USA (despite the presence of sears, mcdonalds, burger kings, shopping malls, SUV's, and many other things that make it seem like a slightly colder (and occasionally french speaking) New Hampshire, but let's not knock their manufacturing capabilities.

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (2)

dfenstrate (202098) | more than 13 years ago | (#84181)

Maybe we could leave the Enterprise up there. No, seriously. The Enterprise is a test shuttle that has flight controls, but is missing a few other key parts. They used it to test the glide back to earth, by releasing it off the top of the 747 they use to get them back to cape canaviral. Maybe finish off the shuttle, send it up, and leave it there for escape purposes, cause it sure as hell can hold six people, even seven. and hold a soyuz or two to boot.

Re:Trend (1)

hearingaid (216439) | more than 13 years ago | (#84182)

Back in the '80s, when the first space arm was introduced on the shuttle, CNN did a huge, in-depth story on it and how it was made by Canadians (Sperry IIRC).

So did Time, and so did Discover.

Okay, I'm a Canadian. But I'm rational. It can happen. :)

Psst. . . Canada. You were adopted from gypsies. (1)

An Onerous Coward (222037) | more than 13 years ago | (#84183)

Go ahead and whine about how we're always picking on you, and how you think Mom likes us best. But until you stop rubbing in the fact that you kicked our butts back in 1812 -- or at least give us a rematch -- we're going to continue in the arm-punching, and we may even start spreading rumors around school that you're in love with Suzy Lancaster. That'll teach ya.

My fellow Americans, please visit this site [mp3s.com] , download "The War of 1812", and see how our "friendly neighbors to the North" still desire to rule America, even as Starbucks and McDonalds rule Canada today.

Actually, you're incorrect. (2)

JeremyYoung (226040) | more than 13 years ago | (#84184)

Congress just recently put back $400 million into NASA's budget so NASA could complete work on the X-38 CRV (crew return vehicle). So now, with the Italians looking like they'll be building the new Habitation module (so it can sleep 7 people), and the money back in for the CRV, a full-complement of 7 people looks like a reality.

Also, keep in mind that this is currently only the SECOND crew on the ISS, and they're basically still in the "shakedown" phase where they hash out bugs/problems in preparation for real science.

Granted, I'd rather see NASA focus on Mars as a goal (much as Zubrin calls for) and I dislike all absurd bureacracy in the agency, but Pulling together 16 nations (two of which used to be bitter rivals) to build a huge earth-orbiting outpost IS a worthwhile goal. I dont like the idea of LEO space stations for research, as I see them as a waste of time. But I do love to see the entire world work towards a single goal, simply because it's unprecedented in the history of mankind, I watch to see the ISS fly over to make me feel like the future isn't some apocalyptic end where we nuke ourselves into oblivion due to political differences.

Re:Americans...... (2)

zhensel (228891) | more than 13 years ago | (#84185)

The proper definition of irony is the polar opposite of Alanis Morrisette's definition, who, coincidentally, is Canadian.

Re:Americans...... (4)

zhensel (228891) | more than 13 years ago | (#84186)

Well, there were some questions about the maple syrup driven hydraulics used in the arm.

Re:Will you people grow up? (1)

vinlud (230623) | more than 13 years ago | (#84187)

We're all states on this big blue planet... we really should learn to cooperate a little better than bickering children.

You're absolutely right!

Definitely when you are aware of the fact that most nations are just a few hundred years old, a couple of generations...

Greetz,

Re:Americans...... (1)

RandorNG (240927) | more than 13 years ago | (#84188)

It's called french, leave your house once in awhile.

Re:Colder than New Hampshire? (1)

aoeuid (250239) | more than 13 years ago | (#84189)

And, as a South-Western Ontarian, I recently discovered that I am about as far south as Northern California!! (Point Peely is actually south of the California-Oregon border!)

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (2)

mikethegeek (257172) | more than 13 years ago | (#84190)

"his won't change until we get a crew escape vehicle (currently the Russian Soyuz, a 30-year-old design) that can carry more than three people back. Guess what - there isn't even a funded plan to build such a vehicle!"

This is what the XP38 shuttle was supposed to be. Since it's been scrapped, there is no way (besides what you proposed, having more than 1 Soyuz standing by) to have more than 3 crew, as they'd have no way to escape the station.

Re:Yankees != Competent (1)

mythr (260723) | more than 13 years ago | (#84191)

Canada did not invent basketball... A Canadian invented basketball. He only invented the sport because the canadian school he went to wouldn't let him play anything fun. (No rugby, no lacrosse, they're "legalized murder" and "tools of the devil!")

An Airlock?!? (2)

hubrisboy (267500) | more than 13 years ago | (#84192)

GREAT!!! Now we have something to throw trolls out of!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's about time.... (1)

theeds (300421) | more than 13 years ago | (#84193)

all I can say is... it's about time the US didn't have to do something for this "international" space station, I guess now it's a North American space station.

Re:Will you people grow up? (1)

snake_dad (311844) | more than 13 years ago | (#84194)

otoh, a little pride in what your nation contributes to the iss may generate extra support for a government which may or may not increase spending...

Re:What's interesting is... (1)

snake_dad (311844) | more than 13 years ago | (#84195)

The ISS was launched? Hot damn... wish i'd seen that! :-)

Station versus Mars (1)

kalamazoo904 (312444) | more than 13 years ago | (#84196)

[Zubrin's book] seemed to be only half about going to Mars. The other half seemed to be another diatribe against the space station. Maybe I didn't read far enough, but I haven't thrown the book away, only set it aside. Zubrin seemed to have as big an anti-space-station blindspot as those he accused of having a must-use-space-station blindspot.

Zubrin's "blindspot", as you say, is not only directed at Space Station ops. He is in disgust at any space program whose costs and ops are comprimised by political decisions. In that, he no different from any other Engineer Indignant At Management's Mistakes.

If you (a) complete Case for Mars and (b) read the sequel, Entering Space, then you discover that:

(1) Zubrin also directs his invective at his former employer, Lockheed Martin, for refusing to attempt cheap development of SSTO's. (I'm not surprised. Construction companies are not in the transportation business, they are in the CONSTRUCTION business. It is in Lockheed Martin's interest not to build SSTO's. Which is why it was eminently stupid to give the X-33 SSTO development project to them.)

(2) Zubrin doesn't hate the station, he hates waste. In his (logical) opinion, the Station should have been built with Shuttle-C (the never-built Cargo Shuttle, with payload replacing the orbiter) and Aldrin's Big Cans. Such a Station would take more crew EVA time, but many, many fewer launches.

(3) However, Zubrin *does* have a tendency to hammer his point home far beyond the point at which he has convinced you. Grit your teeth, bear it, and dig through his work for the science and engineering. You'll find it rather thorough and thought-provoking.

TTFN

Re:Will you people grow up? (1)

Persistence (316950) | more than 13 years ago | (#84198)

ESA is making a number of contributions [esa.int] that I would consider "significant", such as the Columbus laboratory. Other nations provide significant parts also. I would be surprised if ESA's spending on the ISS is significantly below that of NASA.

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (2)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 13 years ago | (#84200)

I think they should reconsider using one of the crazy personal space rescue [astronautix.com] systems from the 60's. It looks cheap to build, and it would probably be a blast to ride!

Re:Yankees != Competent (1)

Drakin (415182) | more than 13 years ago | (#84201)

Actually, it was an american school he was teaching at.

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (3)

Zarhan (415465) | more than 13 years ago | (#84202)

This won't change until we get a crew escape vehicle (currently the Russian Soyuz, a 30-year-old design) that can carry more than three people back. Guess what - there isn't even a funded plan to build such a vehicle! Only, that the X-38 just completed a test flight. See http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/space/07/10/X38.test. flight/index.html for details. You must be confusing this with the X-33 that was cancelled... (Altough that may be picked up again by the USAF, as well).

Re:What's interesting is... (1)

zardor (452852) | more than 13 years ago | (#84205)

Of course there was a way of doing EVA's, but from the Russian side, and of course that dosn't count to NASA/USA, does it?. The russian module was launched with 2 russian space suits ready and waiting for use, and the 'spherical' docking compartment in Zeveda had all the plumbing etc to support EVAs. In fact, an EVA did take place, but they didn't need to leave the ISS, instead they just moved some docking equipment around. Besides, that was done by russians, so it didn't really count either! However, if an emergency required it, the ISS did have the means before now to conduct a full blown external EVA if necessary. Also, Russia is planing to launch 'Piers', its own docking compartment on Sept 15. This will provide 3 things: a proper airlock (so they dont have to depres a main part of the ISS), a strela 'space crane' for moving other bits of russian space hardware around, and a docking port, so the russians will be able to keep 2 Soyuz escape craft and a Progress cargo craft docket to the ISS at the same time (currently there are only two Soyuz/Progress compatable docking ports - the others are for 'bigger' modules so to speak. With the ability to keep two soyuz craft docked, the emergency crew return issue is solved, at least form a technicial point of view. Russia would still need to fund, build and launch two additional Soyuz craft each year. However, If they were allowed to collect $20mil every 6 months for flying either tourists or ESA astronauts for example, that would probably cover it, But of course NASA still wants to spend $500Mil developing their own return craft, and another $500 mil to launch each on them on a shuttle. I admit that the NASA CRV (crew return veichle) would be able to return 7, instead of 6 people in two soyuz, and the CRV can handle injured crew members better than Soyuz. But also, I would think that two Soyuz is better than one CRV, from a redundency point of view. See here [russianspaceweb.com] for more info on Piers.

They got the airlock? (1)

10Ghz (453478) | more than 13 years ago | (#84208)

Now wonder the astronauts think that the ISS sucks! I mean, how would you feel if you were forced to live in a house with no front-door? It would be really difficult to keep those door-to-door vacuum-salesmen out of the house! On Earth, unwanted vacuum in the house is annoying. In space, it's deadly!

Re:Won't work because (1) constant thrust (2) wobb (1)

jx100 (453615) | more than 13 years ago | (#84209)

Actually, constant thrust would not be required. Any friction would only be inside the station, not with anything outside. INternal friction would not slow the craft down because it is rotating as a whole system. Think of it like this: an astronaut pushes off of a wall in the ISS to get to the other side of a hall. After he pushed the wall, he is going in a direction, and the ISS is going in the opposite direction. As soon as he gets to the other side, he will have to push against the opposite wall to stop. This slows him down, but speeds up the ISS enough to counter the earlier movement.

Re:I'm sorry... (1)

lposeidon (455264) | more than 13 years ago | (#84210)

now if they could get the compatibility issue figured out... this damn thing might work. sound like its gonna fail or blow up or someting like in the apollo 13 mission.

Re:Artificial gravity via centrifugal force etc. (1)

deathcow (455995) | more than 13 years ago | (#84211)

No, no, instead, how about an actual rotating centrifuge for gravity experiments? One Spinning Chamber, Please [boeing.com]

Re:Americans...... (1)

beardofevil (459272) | more than 13 years ago | (#84212)

Yeah? Somebody give me the proper definition of IRONY without looking it up in the dictionary! I will never forget how my English teacher used to torment us so....

What the artcile doesnt say (1)

q-soe (466472) | more than 13 years ago | (#84214)

IS that they misplaced to special silicone sealant for the airlock and had to use chilli sauce instead.

How about this? (1)

c r o w a n (467364) | more than 13 years ago | (#84215)

Well, the ugly reality of $10,000 per pound to orbit reared it's ugly head...

Who about boosting the space station to an altitude of 30,000 miles so we can put it in a stationary orbit, then building a 30,000 mile pneumatic elevator, sorta like what they use to "shoop!" your check to the teller at the bank drive-up? We could call it Project Acme and paint the likeness of Wile Coyote on the outside of the space station . . .

Re:Might As Well Go EVA, There Ain't No Test Tubes (2)

c r o w a n (467364) | more than 13 years ago | (#84216)

This won't change until we get a crew escape vehicle (currently the Russian Soyuz, a 30-year-old design) that can carry more than three people back.

Why don't they just lower a long, long ladder down to earth, ala Bugs Bunny or the Road Runner?

Re:Will you people grow up? (2)

JinatsiSan (467734) | more than 13 years ago | (#84217)

Oh shut up... The fact is: it's human nature! :) It's perfectly natural for people in a given region to band together and blame everyone else. We won't come together as a planet until the day that someone/something outside this planet rears their ugly "heads".

Quite, but on the other hand, it's only fun as long as you don't mean it. From the moment one of the parties feels disgruntled you don't have fun but an argument instead. That still is no problem, if you are open to strike agreement again.

Now I know the Americans have an ego from here to the whitehouse but are generally very friendly, and Canadians seem like very conscient, caring and goodharted people, so WWIII will prolly not occur in ye good olde Canada just yet.

So, my point is, give credit where it is due, even if you had a laugh over something :) And that doesnt mean giving credit every single time something works, because that's just stupid. Nationalism and racesism is the most dangerous drug every conceived, so don't get blindsighted by it. Have a laugh, but keep your respect. Fuck. This sounds like a lecture, sorry bout that.

All the best

Re:So why can't Canada launch themselves into spac (1)

pb_rea (467966) | more than 13 years ago | (#84218)

They can't even play football right. They're still squabbling with Quebec over soverignty issues. The Canadian dollar once worth about USD$0.92 is now down only worth USD$0.64 (source: http://www.xe.com/). Canada can't get into space without hitching a ride on a more advanced nation's ship. Actually, it was worth a hell of alot more at one point. And through out most of the 60s, 70s and 80s, the Toronto Stock Exchange was worth more than the NYSE, like double.
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