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Senators Push To Preserve NSA Phone Surveillance

samzenpus posted 1 year,23 days | from the works-for-them dept.

Security 252

cold fjord writes "The New York times reports that the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), and Vice Chairman, Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), are moving a bill forward that would 'change but preserve' the controversial NSA phone log program. Senator Feinstein believes the program is legal, but wants to improve public confidence. The bill would reduce the time the logs could be kept, require public reports on how often it is used, and require FISA court review of the numbers searched. The bill would require Senate confirmation of the NSA director. It would also give the NSA a one week grace period in applying for permission from a court to continue surveillance of someone that travels from overseas to the United States. The situation created by someone traveling from overseas to the United States has been the source of the largest number of incidents in the US in which NSA's surveillance rules were not properly complied with. The rival bill offered by Senators Wyden (D-OR) and Udall (D-CO) which imposes tougher restrictions is considered less likely to pass."

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Fire them. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968103)

They're not representing the people and therefore undemocratic. Fire them.

Re:Fire them. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968125)

I would. The problem is I don't think they'll listen to me and I'd probably be arrested if I call the cops to try and forcefully remove them from office.

Re:Fire them. (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968445)

It seems like there's a fairly major reluctance to do what's right. How can you get the managers to understand that their unlawful actions are causing harm to others?
Maybe there's some higher agency that will play a hand in the game...do you think god would fire them? :p

Re:Fire them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968453)

They don't understand it until it happends to them personally or their immediate family.

Re:Fire them. (5, Funny)

PRMan (959735) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968811)

do you think god would fire them?

Start praying. He's our best shot at this point.

Re:Fire them. (1)

SINternet (1194899) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968925)

pffft

Re:Fire them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969631)

Best shot... are you implying what it looks like you're implying?

Re:Fire them. (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968567)

You pussy Americans need to stand up and use your right to bare arms to resolve the situation!

Re:Fire them. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969085)

I don't think sleeveless shirts will help the situation, but thanks for trying.

Re:Fire them. (5, Interesting)

joe user jr (230757) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968745)

It would be no great surprise if voting on this bill went along the same lines as the congressional vote on reining in "the NSA’s phone-spying dragnet. It turns out that those 217 'no' voters received twice as much campaign financing from the defense and intelligence industry as the 205 'yes' voters. [wired.com] "

In particular,

Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), the chair of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, is married to Richard C. Blum, who was substantially invested in URS Corp, which owns EG&G, a leading government technical provider that has been awarded hundreds of millions of dollars in security-related contracts. Feinstein never abstained from voting when it affected her husband’s wallet and Blum made $100 million when he sold his shares, as investigative reporter Peter Byrne exposed in his 2007 series the “Feinstein Files [peterbyrne.info] .”

( http://www.indypendent.org/2013/07/16/nsa-follows-you-we-follow-money [indypendent.org] )

See also:

Good luck firing them, though.

Re:Fire them. (3, Insightful)

PRMan (959735) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968807)

Are you kidding? The idiots in northern California will vote for her again because "she's a Democrat". It doesn't matter what she does, she'll get reelected. They voted for Jerry Brown for governor and he already bankrupted California twice in the past.

Re:Fire them. (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969475)

Arnie for gov was the most awesome thing ever because none of the really fucked up stuff he wanted to do ever came to pass. I knew that this was what would happen, which is why I voted for him. I voted against Moonbeam but we got him again anyway because as you say, the voters of California are idiots. That's not entirely true, though; many of them are simply assholes. There's a lot of self-entitled rich fucks in California, it's not just self-entitled poor.

Re:Fire them. (4, Informative)

dywolf (2673597) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969751)

You do realize that most of the folks in Northern california fall under standard rural demographics, which leans to republican* right?
You do realize that "Northern California" is not simply "everything north of LA" right ?
You do realize that Senators don't have districts and are elected by the entire state right?
You do realize that her power base is primarily San Francisco and the Southern California cities (LA metro, San Diego) right?

(*Other than San Francisco and Hippy Central I mean Mt Shasta City)

Re:Fire them. (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969033)

Saxby Chambliss has already announced his retirement. Thus, he is currently free to leverage his seniority and lame-duckness to act against the wishes of his constituents.

Re:Fire them. (1)

EuclideanSilence (1968630) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969541)

They don't represent Slashdot. However, Slashdot doesn't represent the US. Governments always reflect the greater wishes of the governed. Anyone who thinks that representatives passing stupid legislation isn't a direct reflection of the nature of the majority is probably a member of that majority.

As a world traveler (5, Insightful)

canadiannomad (1745008) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968117)

As a world traveler who is actively seeing many places, cultures and things let me tell you about my perspective... Nah, I better keep my mouth shut.

Also who trusts FISA again??? The secret court that declares itself legal... I think I did that in the garage when I was 5.

Re:As a world traveler (4, Interesting)

AHuxley (892839) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968183)

Re: Also who trusts FISA again?
That was the debate the NSA and GCHQ always warned about historically and tried to stay out of books, politics, the press, courts for as long as they could in the ~1950-80's.
Once any target population knows they are under active, long term domestic surveillance programs their telco/isp use changes.
The classified programs and the brands are out now in public. How people interact and consume via the brands will be interesting to see.
Trials with the domestic metadata 'lock box' could also prove legally interesting as skilled defence teams ask to see more and present more to open courts.

Re:As a world traveler (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968727)

...Once any target population knows they are under active, long term domestic surveillance programs their telco/isp use changes. The classified programs and the brands are out now in public. How people interact and consume via the brands will be interesting to see.

Yeah, I'd love to see the evidence that Facebook traffic took a nose dive, as their stock price ticks upward.

People may react differently and change their ways, but we are not a nation of people anymore. Today's generation are a nation of mindless sheep who could give a fuck about privacy anymore, as evidenced by the endless stream of "look-at-me" narcissism projected onto social media every 12 seconds, far too ignorant to realize it will come around and bite them in the ass.

Nothing will change until it's too late. Ignorance rules the masses, and our lawmakers love it.

Re:As a world traveler (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968815)

Today's generation are a nation of mindless sheep who could give a fuck about privacy anymore

You act as if it wasn't almost exactly the same in the past. Most people have always been mindless sheep.

Re:As a world traveler (1)

hodet (620484) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969489)

This is quite true. Today's technology has just clarified that fact. But the cat is now out of the bag and anyone worried about surveillance, unless they are idiots, will take measures to protect themselves. The rest of the population who don't give a crap will carry on. All the NSA are going to have left to read is "ZOMG Kim Kardashian!!!!!"

Re:As a world traveler (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968195)

As a world traveler

......

Ever travel to the "BIG EARS" (according to RT) listening facility in the middle-eastern nuclear powerhouse??

I can C++++ it now....
caller:"yada-yada-yada.... bill of lading.....yada-yada.....binliners"
NSA contractor : "we got some flags on a call, Ehoody, call Shlomo in DC."
Congressman X : "darnit, whats the buzzing in my cellphone?"
Congressman X`s assistant :" uh, thats not your phone sir, its a little-bitty- `B``B` in yur inner-E, arrrrrrrrg!"
youtube.com/watch?v=N7OgDW5jTuo
the manuscript can be found on googledocs, EIR "the ugly truth about the ADL"

so whats this about AMDOCS?? FOXCOMM??
can anyone out there ENLIGHTEN us about AMDOCS and FOXCOMM (now part of Corning)?

Re:As a world traveler (4, Insightful)

abhisri (960175) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968363)

What is the point of passing any bills or laws related to this? It is not like NSA is going to obey the laws in first place, which is the actual problem.

If your government refuses to respect the very constitution that is supposed to give it its power in the first place, and do unconstitutional acts, your government's behavior is not so different from that of Pakistan's previous president Musharraf's imprisonment of all his political rivals during election and then declaring himself to be the "democratically elected representative".

In the meanwhile, Americans continue debating between "republicans" v/s "democrats" and "Bush" v/s "Obama".

Re:As a world traveler (2)

AHuxley (892839) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968419)

Re NSA is going to obey the laws in first place, which is the actual problem.
The next legal move is what people may want to avoid. Facing a life long legal domestic metadata 'lock box' for use state or federal court at any time for any reason.
Giving the domestically illegal enough color of law cover to present in a courtroom is the next chilling step.

Re:As a world traveler (5, Interesting)

Dunbal (464142) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968801)

I got my perspective adjusted for me a few years ago when getting off an international flight in Miami. Three large policemen in body armor with assault rifles and with one of the most vicious looking black dog I have ever seen, standing at a "choke point" in the tunnels that lead from the plane to immigration. They stood in such a way that you had to pass near the dog, either on the right or the left.. And I thought to myself - this is the "new" America. Well I haven't been back. I plan on actively avoiding it if I can. They can dick around with other people.

Re:As a world traveler (0)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968965)

You've never been through a European airport where the police were armed with automatic weapons then? Maybe you need to travel more.

Foreign visitors to U.S. hit record in 2011 [reuters.com]

Re:As a world traveler (5, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969139)

It's not so much the guns. I live in Costa Rica - police with automatic weapons is the norm. You go anywhere important (bank, jewelry store, etc) and there's always a guard with a shotgun. So like I say, it wasn't the weapons per se, it was the obvious tactical deployment forcing all passengers to walk very close to the officers and the dog, while receiving dirty looks from said officers. This was "in your face" policing. I would think it's ok for the police to make me feel like a criminal if I've done something, but I haven't done anything. Still I felt as if at any moment they were going to grab me. And obviously that was the intent - to intimidate the passengers: "You're in America now and we won't take any shit from you". Yeah well, keep your police state.

Re:As a world traveler (0)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969287)

A police state isn't made by border guards, which is what those police were, but by how the state deals with its citizens on a day to day basis. The US isn't a police state any more than European countries, or the rest of the Anglosphere.

Re:As a world traveler (4, Interesting)

drinkypoo (153816) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969391)

A police state isn't made by border guards, which is what those police were, but by how the state deals with its citizens on a day to day basis.

Yes, and the average citizen commits a felony every day, and the police use selective enforcement to control the populace in a way that benefits the oligarchs, because this is a police state.

Re:As a world traveler (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969045)

The secret court that declares itself legal... I think I did that in the garage when I was 5

Except you weren't controlling billions of dollars while doing it -- and leveraging that cash flow for personal gain.

Re:As a world traveler (0)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969065)

As a world traveler who is actively seeing many places, cultures and things let me tell you about my perspective... Nah, I better keep my mouth shut.

Why?

Also who trusts FISA again??? The secret court that declares itself legal... I think I did that in the garage when I was 5.

The FISA court was established in the exact same way that every other court in the US besides the Supreme Court was established: by an act of Congress. It is legal and exists because Congress made it so. I doubt you did that when you were 5.

Re:As a world traveler (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969159)

No, the FISA Court is not lawful [reason.com] and no lawful court works the way it does.

Re:As a world traveler (2)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969239)

I complement you on pointing to an article from Reason. Normally I am quite open to the arguments there. Unfortunately the author in this case gets it wrong. Issuing warrants is typically a one sided matter in courts, not an adversarial process. An actual trial needs to be adversarial, but the FISA court doesn't try suspects. It only issues warrants, rules on questions of law before it, and performs oversight. It also regularly modifies warrant requests rather than issuing them as requested. So, while I respect the author, he's wrong in this matter.

There are proposals to add a sort of general "civil rights and privacy advocate" to the FISA court, and there is some merit to that I think. But as it stands, the court is constitutional even if the process could be improved.

Re:As a world traveler (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969189)

It is legal and exists because Congress made it so.

And this is why the law, congress, and the idiots for vote for them deserve no respect.

Re:As a world traveler (0)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969247)

Once again, fabulous moderation from someone that had a mod point but no argument.

Re:As a world traveler (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969547)

You are a boot-licker. You are impervious to argument because you believe in the will of your master. Any article related to the US government on /. I know I will see you eagerly defending whatever they do. Keep hopping about, doing backflips for treats. They'll still kennel you one day.

Re:As a world traveler (0)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969755)

Your post is based on bile and ignorance. Why don't you read a few of my posts in this Slashdot story?

IRS Admits Targeting Conservative Groups During 2012 Election [slashdot.org]

And you might find some of the later ones in this informative as well.

Medical Firm Sues IRS For 4th Amendment Violation In Records Seizure [slashdot.org]

You may need to be able to hold more than one idea in your mind at the same time. Can you do that?

Damn it (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968127)

Would someone fucking put Feinstein out of my misery already.

PIN-drop grabbed by AMDOCS (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968143)

I can C++++ it now....
caller:"yada-yada-yada.... bill of lading.....yada-yada.....binliners"
NSA contractor : "we got some flags on a call, Ehoody, call Shlomo in DC."
Congressman X : "darnit, whats the buzzing in my cellphone?"
Congressman X`s assistant :" uh, thats not your phone sir, its a little-bitty- `B``B` in yur inner-E, arrrrrrrrg!"
youtube.com/watch?v=N7OgDW5jTuo
the manuscript can be found on googledocs, EIR "the ugly truth about the ADL"

so whats this about AMDOCS?? FOXCOMM??

"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (5, Insightful)

gweihir (88907) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968155)

Why do so few people understand that? The surveillance in totalitarian regimes is typically "legal", something being "legal" does not mean anything.

You can in fact establish a totalitarian regime in an entirely legal way almost everywhere. Step one is to scare the population into irrationality ("terrorism" and other specters work nicely). Then you manipulate the supreme court (if you have one) into doing more and more bizarre interpretations of the constitution (if you have one). This has been going on for some while in the US. And finally you drop all pretense and make laws against "crimes" that place more and more people into that class (victim-less crimes work well here), so you can get rid easily of anybody you do not like. Allowing the use of random finds in searches, even when the original reason for the search turns out to be bogus (a truly despicable practice) helps, because everybody has something illegal that can be found with over-broad criminalization. Then scare the targets into a deal, so no judge or jury gets to examine the accusations.

See, easy. And well under way in the US.

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (4, Interesting)

dido (9125) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968175)

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." -- Hermann Göring.

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (4, Insightful)

TheP4st (1164315) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968295)

"Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany.

Unfortunately there is a billion dollar industry that do want war and combined with the all too prevalent revolving door politics little will change for the better anytime soon.

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (1)

gweihir (88907) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968325)

Indeed. And it worked well in any day and age and does so today. People are generally too stupid to recognize the mechanism and being scared reduces effective intelligence and wisdom even further below the pathetic performance level the average human being is capable of.

This guy was scum, but highly perceptive and insightful scum. The NSDAP has several others that fall into this class. It looks like their texts are held in high regard by the US political elite.

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968941)

I got a solution:

Hey Americans, why not live with some very basic rules. Like, don't work for the NSA? If you're ever in a jury where the NSA is presenting data against someone, find that person innocent?

I mean, it's only possible in America to "properly" fight this shit because only in America can the people actually pull together. I mean, you know, until they cut the internet totally. But still. If no one works at the NSA (a terrorist organization if you ask me) then who'll look at the data?

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (1)

tburkhol (121842) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969099)

Hey Americans, why not live with some very basic rules. Like, don't work for the NSA? If you're ever in a jury where the NSA is presenting data against someone, find that person innocent?

If ethical people refuse to work for the NSA, then only unethical people will work for the NSA. One might question whether that is already the case.

It is unlikely that NSA evidence will ever be reported as such in open court. Their whole argument for classifying these programs is that knowledge of them would eliminate their usefulness. Further, presenting that evidence in court would open it to legal challenge, and most of us hope that the only court willing to support these programs is the FISA kangaroo court. No, much better not to present the NSA's part of the evidence as anything more than 'an anonymous tip.' Especially if you can detain indefinitely without charges anyone you think might be convicted based on the secret evidence.

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (5, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969183)

If you're ever in a jury where the NSA is presenting data against someone, find that person innocent?

Err, what makes you think that will ever happen? The data from the NSA isn't going to be used for those silly trials (where a jury might find somebody not guilty). Instead, we'll use the data to put people on secret lists that will ensure that it is extremely unpleasant for them to:
- Get on a commercial plane.
- Cross an international border.
- Deposit money into a bank account.
- Get or keep a job.
- Vote.
- Rent a car.
- Take out a bank loan.
- Enter a court of law, regardless of the reason.
- Own a smartphone, laptop, or other portable electronic device.
Oh, and if you're in a foreign country that nobody important cares about, like Yemen, then they may just decide to kill you and your family with a drone and be done with it.

Most of these kinds of steps have already been taken against people who the national security state has decided are troublemakers.

"Legal" what a stupid word. (2)

HansKloss (665474) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968301)

Absolutely right and on topic. "Legal" became very fashionable word for various organized crime rings within governments around the world.

"The law" turned into another business venue which can be stretched to some shady organization or group of people liking. Add media ownership to that mix and any passages from the Constitution are not worth more than toilet paper.

Re:"Legal" what a stupid word. (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968487)

Do away with legal, law, layer, just, justice, judge, jury, moral, crime, criminal, right etc nonsense. "Social contract" and its derivatives are what we need.

Something I don't explicitly agree to is not binding on me, when I don't act as I agreed to I am not a law barker or criminal, I am merely in breach of contract (to the rest of my fellow citizens). If there is no 100% agreement on how to handle a specific or general issue there should not be any "law" or "rule", or binding resolution on those who did not vote or vote against the said issue. That is the democracy, everything else is horse excrement.

CAPTCHA: recode

Re:"Legal" what a stupid word. (1)

gweihir (88907) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968623)

And make sure "the law" is a widely held fetish that many people use to replace concepts like "ethics", "responsibility", "right or wrong/shades of gray". This blinds them to the realities until it is too late.

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (4, Insightful)

aaaaaaargh! (1150173) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968481)

Let me add to this that the problem is not that the US is super-evil. Everybody knows that the US is not significantly more or less evil than most other civilized countries, just a bit more powerful. The problem is that when the mechanisms for abuse are in place, they will invariably be used for something evil one day or another. Perhaps not now, but who knows what happens in 20 years?

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (2)

Terry95 (2690775) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968999)

All I can add is that by declaring a blatantly Unconstitutional act legal you cheapen the definition of both the term "legal" and the value of having a Constitution.

Be careful what rights you give away. One day your children will bleed to get them back.

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969049)

... make laws against "crimes" ...

The USA has gone one better; actually denying due process: Not just for enemy 'combatants'. US police can declare anyone a drug dealer and steal everything he owns.

... use of random finds in searches ...

That's only half the problem: US Police no longer need probable cause. As seen in 'stop and frisk' searches, mobile phone searches, TSA VIPR searches, customs agent searches outside international ports. This malaise is spreading to other countries.

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969171)

You know, a man named Adolph Hitler once did almost exactly what you described in a country called Germany...

Why does no one bother to remember that?

Re:"Legal" does not equal "ethical" or "right" (1)

Darri (948351) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969397)

You know, a man named Adolph Hitler once did almost exactly what you described in a country called Germany...

Why does no one bother to remember that?

You might say Godwin's law [wikipedia.org] is one of the mechanisms used to make any such comparison taboo by default.

I'm Glad (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968173)

I'm glad I'm not a member of The Party. I hear they watch those mother f*ckers really close.
I'd rather have no boots as part of the proles then blue overalls.

Re:I'm Glad (2)

canadiannomad (1745008) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968185)

If there is any hope, it lies in the proles.

Re:I'm Glad (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968707)

Then we all are properly fucked.

Still not learned from history (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968181)

America has a horrible habit of not learning from history. It is worrying to see obvious extremists like Feinstein, pushing through viciously totalitarian legislation of this type.
Look at the German experience of these type of laws - first with the Nazis, then with the Stasi police state.
What has been happening in America is FAR more reaching than either the Nazi or Stasi surveillance ever was. The American people need to act now, to move towards a democratic path. It will be a difficult journey after such a long period of ruthless totalitarian government. It will require rebuilding of all the fundemental institutions of the state, to be free of corruption, and to be free of corporate interference. I hope for the sake of ordinary americans, that they can cast aside the corrupt regime, before it is too late, and their country implodes.

Re: Still not learned from history (4, Insightful)

getuid() (1305889) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968255)

Nah, too early. Most people, out of lack of personal experience, aren't yet terrified enough of a totalitatian govt. thus don't quite know why and how to love a proper functioning democracy.

Wait another decade or so, it will be easier then. More bloody, and will require more work, but there'l be more hands to help.

Cheers

Re:Still not learned from history (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969011)

It's also gotten itself to become an empire with the belief that only a single "super power" can protect the world today.
 
Shamelessly stolen from Salon.com [salon.com]

Re:Still not learned from history (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969727)

The first duty of a national government - ANY government, whether it is democratic, socialist or dictatorial - is to keep its citizens safe from extraordinary acts of violence from within and without. A government that fails to do that will become an ex-government.

How do we do that without intercepting terrorists' communications.

Dianne Feinstein dishonors with the constitution! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968399)

> Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) believes the program is legal

Bullshit. Tell her about the fourth amendment. Don't you love the way democrats are just as willing to fuck over your civil liberties as the republicans?

I am sick of people like Feinstein wiping their asses on the constitution until SCOTUS tells her to stop six years later. I propose we jail constitution rapists like Feinstein and bald perjury man to send a message to other constitution rapists.

Pretending that this is news (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968499)

We've all known for years that the NSA was monitoring all of us. That's what they do. I'm glad they are. We should have the best spy agency in the world, that 's how we avoid trouble.

Snowden has done nothing good for this country.

Re: Pretending that this is news (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969207)

If the cost of the best spy agency is weakened encryption allowing the "bad Guys" to spy on the "good Guys" as much as vice versa, espionage tactics which enable Someone to collect all of Your account names/numbers and passwords, an ineffective authorization system for keeping that data out of the "wrong hands", and a false sense of security surrounding it all, the price is too high and Snowden deserves a medal.

Re: Pretending that this is news (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969289)

Don't forget any chilling effect on political discourse, too!

Re: Pretending that this is news (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969215)

Except you left out the parts where they share their "legally obtained" info with the DEA, etc., while cautioning them to fabricate other reasons for stopping that truck or whatever. And I think you might have forgotten the NSA's role in deliberately weakening the very encryption standards used by American banks, businesses, health care providers, etc. These actions, to my mind, are beyond the pale. They are not making us safer.

I see but one solution. (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968517)

Crypto-anarchism.

Victory through mathematics!

Re:I see but one solution. (1)

Mathinker (909784) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968847)

> Victory through mathematics!

Unfortunately, it's much more difficult than that. Mathematics alone is not enough. What you really meant was: "Victory through OPSEC [wikipedia.org] ".

Even more unfortunately, I'm sure that both of us have already failed, by making these posts. Unless, of course, our only goal was to distract attention from others.

Re:I see but one solution. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968973)

You probably should have posted AC. But even then the NSA knows who you are citizen.

That's going to work (5, Insightful)

HangingChad (677530) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968521)

The bill would reduce the time the logs could be kept, require public reports on how often it is used, and require FISA court review of the numbers searched.

Riiiight. The organization that lied to Congress, lied to the FISA Kangaroo Court, and then lied to the public when they got caught is going to suddenly be cowed by tweaking the law.

They should call this the Whitewash Amendment.

Dear America (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968543)

Fuck you and your corporate fascist oligopoly.

Sincerely yours,

The rest of the world.

So what the NSA got on these senators? (5, Insightful)

Bruce66423 (1678196) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968545)

Given that their behaviour is grossly inconsistent with their other political views, one is forced to the conclusion that the NSA has got some means of coercion to get them to propose this.

Re:So what the NSA got on these senators? (2)

geekmux (1040042) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968633)

Given that their behaviour is grossly inconsistent with their other political views, one is forced to the conclusion that the NSA has got some means of coercion to get them to propose this.

This might make sense, if those being coerced were actually in a position of influence. They are above the law, and smear campaigns don't work anymore due to the average sheeples attention span.

If you need further evidence, let me refer you to the collective criminal records of our esteemed lawmakers who kept their jobs and their felonies. People forget come voting time. Over and over again.

Don't worry though, I'm sure Amendment #28 is just around the corner, which will simply state that "Congress shall make no law that will apply to them". I mean this is a given today, they're just going to make it blatant and throw it in your face to show how much they are in control and you aren't.

Re:So what the NSA got on these senators? (1)

some old guy (674482) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968835)

Gee, ya think?

Pols have been cowed by their own skeletal closet contents since the days of Allen Dulles and J. Edgar Hoover.

That is why nothing short of a complete and thorough housecleaning (don't hold your breath), or a complete systemic collapse of the Establishment's economic oligarchy (in my dreams), will avail.

Re:So what the NSA got on these senators? (1)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969023)

Given that their behaviour is grossly inconsistent with their other political views, one is forced to the conclusion that the NSA has got some means of coercion to get them to propose this.

There is another possibility you are overlooking. That is that their views may be informed by facts [foxnews.com] of various sorts [bbc.co.uk] , and they aren't totally forgetful [telegraph.co.uk] .

Re:So what the NSA got on these senators? (1)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969283)

Yeah, blowback's a bitch, ain't it?

Re: So what the NSA got on these senators? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969351)

1. Nothing in those articles says the NSA spying either helped or would have helped.

2. According yo the National Safety Council, One's chance of dying from heart disease is approximately 3 million times higher than from an act of terrorism. Compared to coronary artery disease, the threat of terrorism is overblown.

Re:So what the NSA got on these senators? (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969383)

Your links have nothing to do with the case in point. These politicians are stating that collecting digital information on US citizens, all citizenism is acceptable and "legal": It is not and tossing out fear mongering news bites (Fox? please) does nothing to debates the merits. You're trolling, but I'll bite, we have nothing concrete about what the true purpose of the attack in Kenya as about. At the moment it was just another fringe group blowing up people and things in the name of themselves. The message to the west...we're stupid asshats with nothing to lose.

In this country, NSA snooping did not stop the Navyard shooting, the Boston bombing, the recent shooting at a public school, and any of the recent mass murders that has occurred in this country. The NSA tells me "We've stopped bad things from happening" and I say "bullshit, show me proof.". Our government knew a 9/11 was going to happen, they did nothing so please don't tell me Fienstien is taking her facts from old news. It is more conceivable she is taking her facts from a bank account filled with lobbyist dollars.

Re:So what the NSA got on these senators? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969293)

Is it? Remember, it's the democrats who are now doubling down on every failed republican policy of the last 30 years.

Or, if you put aside the tin foil hat, there's a slightly simpler explanation that they've done the oversight and realize what a shitty world we live in.

"reduce the time the logs could be kept" (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968563)

lemme guess, from "forever" to "eternity"?

Well, this makes it easy. (1)

geekmux (1040042) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968599)

I'm so glad that Senator Feinstein believes that this is a legal program that just needs a few "tweaks".

It will make it very easy for her to understand when she is fired for not following the basic tenants she swore to uphold, as documented within the Constitution and our Bill of Rights.

If we're going to keep ignoring these documents over and over again, then the next thing we should initiate is a complete erasure of these topics in the public school system. I certainly see no point in teaching students about history made irrelevant, and it will only serve to confuse the shit out of the next generation as they try and land a job with a criminal record for exercising their Right to peacefully assemble.

Perhaps then our illustrious leaders will get a clue that you either uphold your founding principles, or you get rid of them. Just stop lying to try and convince us that they actually mean anything anymore.

Re:Well, this makes it easy. (2)

MachineShedFred (621896) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969359)

Yeah, because the two vastly Democrat urban areas in California are going to vote Republican to toss a senator. I wish you were correct, but right now people vote for the brand, and not the policy.

And the Republican brand is only slightly better than Enron in California.

Re:Well, this makes it easy. (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969409)

It will make it very easy for her to understand when she is fired for not following the basic tenants she swore to uphold, as documented within the Constitution and our Bill of Rights.

Step 1: The word is tenets. Do not use words you don't understand. It only makes you look like a stupid ass.

Step 2: Sorry, nothing Feinstein is doing is illegal, and Feinstein is known for trying to do end runs around the constitution, and the people who vote for her vote for her on that basis.

we will soon know (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44968627)

if the citizens of this country have any true representation in washington, d.c...

my guess: the anti-snooping bill will get buried in committee. this one will sail through to the floor where it will get quietly tacked-on to some unrelated bill that nobody would dare vote against.

FISA most be abolished (2)

Coward Anonymous (110649) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968631)

It's too convenient an escape hatch for anything the government wants to sweep under the rug.

Re:FISA most be abolished (3, Insightful)

fustakrakich (1673220) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969271)

The government would rather abolish the FOIA. It incites discontent with its authority.

Constitutional Ammendment (1)

spike6479 (205716) | 1 year,23 days | (#44968939)

Looks like we need to have a new amendment that keeps the government from data mining and using the current state of technology to create a 1984 state.

Nothing changes (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969009)

"Nothing changes; not in a hurry anyway." - 'Solid rock', Goanna, 1982

It doesn't change the problem:

- The NSA is deciding what the NSA can do; to everyone.

- The politicians charged with protecting the tax-payers provide unfettered power to career bureaucrats.

- Bureaucrats and politicians alike are lying about the abuse of that unfettered power.

sex with aq Doll (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969035)

own lube, beverage, leaving core. I the reaper BSD's every Chance I got to avoid so as to

Pay Saxby a visit (1)

darrellg1 (969068) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969093)

and kick him in the nuts. I'm sorry, but it's starting to look more and more like violence will be the answer.

Bizness as usual (3, Insightful)

Kazoo the Clown (644526) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969119)

"Let's say we did something so that we can start pretending things are different."

Fire them immediately (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969157)

The states those politicians represent should recall their Asses immediately. Seriously, what is up with these representatives.

Wow.... (1)

Lumpy (12016) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969211)

I just cant get over how the worst enemies of this country are the ones we elected.

These are EVIL men, everyone needs to write their congresscritters and tell them how they do NOT support the actions of these Evil senators who want to permanently destroy our freedom.

Sadly, I know I am in the minority and that most of you think that all this domestic spying is a good thing.

feinstein is from the bay area... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969227)

she knows oracle and google are going to get rich off the nsa contracts!

Sernate confirmation what a joke (2)

WOOFYGOOFY (1334993) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969333)

The bill would require Senate confirmation of the NSA director.

So this Senator's solution to "reform" is to give more power to herself and that respected, august body of dispassionate reason and good judgement, the Senate.

Yet she has no problem with the FISA rubberstampers being the final overseer.

Why am I surprised?

I voted for Feinstein many times, but you know what? She needs to go. She needs to lose her job because she's nothing but an ossified and unoriginal thinker in times which call for a radical re-thinking of the relationship between privacy, security and liberty.

She's 80 years old and she doesn't "get" the modern world anymore. The times she';s legislating for are now officially over and the post 9-11, post apocalyptic global terrorism, post-Snowden times are what we have now have to sort out. She's doddering around commanding her staffers to tweak things here and there and move a few chairs around .

She is part of the go-along-to-get-along business as usual crows that has failed us and brought us to this point. Time to go. Enjoy your gold-plated Senate healthcare retirement benefits.

Re:Sernate confirmation what a joke (2)

drinkypoo (153816) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969431)

I voted for Feinstein many times,

Why? Why the fuck would you have done that? She's been an unabashed opponent of the constitution all along. Now you want a medal for waking up to what the rest of us have been saying about her for fucking decades?

"Toute nation a le gouvernement qu'elle mérit (2)

cookYourDog (3030961) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969367)

Every nation gets the government it deserves.

A government program that feels its duty is to review the contents of every American email, phone call, and SMS, regardless of such superficial things like 'warrants'? You own it, Americans. After decades of inviting the federal government to fix your problems, this is what you get. From the Midwest corn farmers enjoying their subsidies to the inner city food-stamp-reared-baby-machines, Americans have sold themselves for pennies on their liberty. Worse, you don't even get a good deal with your Faustian compromises. You awarded yourselves a universal healthcare program that is neither universal nor financially sound. Your social security program seizes your salary and barely beats inflation on returns (if you even get it back).

This is what you get. You've handed so much of your agency to your political class, they can't help but think they can make the best decisions for you. Perhaps that's why the wealthiest counties in America ring the capital [forbes.com] . Perhaps that's why your representatives make 300% per capita GDP in salary and have an average net worth nearly 30x the average American family's [opensecrets.org] . Perhaps that's why they see fit to exempt themselves from the laws they write [reuters.com] .

You've fed the megalomaniacs. Good luck telling them you want your 'privacy' back.

Stasi-like regime preserving itself. (1)

boorack (1345877) | 1 year,23 days | (#44969519)

And who is expecting other outcome than this ? Frankly, I don't expect them paying attention to citzenry at all. Growing political isolation (as we see in Syria case or latest UN meeting) might have bigger impact (either good or bad - no one knows).

Frankenstein (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969557)

If Senator Feinstein wants it, that it's definately a bad idea. Maybe we will all get lucky and an anvil will fall on her.

Can ignorance of the law be an excuse now? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44969743)

I can't count how many times I've seen police in a video or in person say "ignorance of the law isn't an excuse" but given we now have secret courts with secret laws with secret interpretations I think it's about damn time ignorance became a valid defense for doing something "illegal".

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