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Apple Now the World's Most Valuable Brand, Knocks Off Coca-Cola

samzenpus posted 1 year,23 days | from the what's-in-a-name? dept.

Businesses 208

cagraham writes "According to consultancy firm Interbrand's latest 'Best Global Brands' report, Apple is now the world's most valuable brand, with an estimated worth of $98.4 billion. Since Interbrand began issuing the report in 2001, Coca-Cola has previously always claimed the top spot, but fell to third place this year, behind both Apple and Google. Tech companies now make up six of the top ten brands, but only 12 of the top 200. The report comes a week after Apple reported record sales numbers, moving 9 million iPhone 5s and 5Cs during their opening weekend."

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Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994075)

"Do you want to sell sugared water for the rest of your life? Or do you want to come with me and change the world?"

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2, Interesting)

narcc (412956) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994155)

That was a bit more powerful in the context of the personal computer revolution.

Today, it sounds empty. A bit more like "Do you want to sell sugar water for the rest of your life, or do you want to come with me an sell premium personal electronics?"

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2, Interesting)

UnknowingFool (672806) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994219)

That sounds like sour grapes to me. Apple is one of many companies that has helped change the world with their "electronic devices". Just ten years ago, the average person would have to look up directions at home, or consult a paper map, or stop and ask for directions if they got lost. These days they pull out their smart phone and do the same thing. Sometimes they don't even need to key in anything and just use voice commands.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (3, Insightful)

DontBlameCanada (1325547) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994351)

Giving Apple or really any "smart device" company any credit here is incorrect. Garmin,et al with the advent of their in-car GPS solutions made paper maps obsolete. Phones etc, didn't start replacing those devices until such a time as GPS chips became both cheap enough and power efficient enough to include in them.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (5, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994403)

Giving apple credit for things they didn't do is pretty much the point of an apple fan.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (5, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994607)

There's many things that Apple might not have invented, but did nonetheless popularize.

I'm certainly not going to defend everything they've done as awesome -- but before the iPod came about, you probably couldn't explain to most people what an MP3 player was or why you'd want one.

And before the iPad came out, I doubt many people had ever even seen tablets because they were extremely specialized niche products. I know for a fact I'd never seen one, and you certainly couldn't walk into Best Buy and get one.

Apple hasn't made their money by inventing things in general, but in making a solid product with a really good user experience -- which in a few cases took the market by storm and established that there was widespread consumer demand. And I think that's what being valued here -- the brand recognition and awareness.

And in periodically having to work with stuff that has a terrible user experience, I wish more companies tried harder at that.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

programmerar (915654) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994717)

meant to mod "insightful", modded redundant..... :(
commenting to undo...

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2, Insightful)

dimeglio (456244) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995035)

Regardless of their matter of fact attitude toward Apple's influence, to change people's attitude towards technology takes a clear vision. Apple's was to make technology work the way people do. Products are just a consequence of that vision. I agree they didn't invent each single components in their products but they assemble them in such a way that it followed their vision. Then people bought them. What's lacking out there is not products or innovations it's delivering products which do not compromise the ultimate vision of a company (provided the vision is not just to make money).

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (0)

getNewNickName (980625) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994743)

Giving [idolized company] credit for things they didn't do is pretty much the point of an [idolized company] fan. FTFY.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2, Interesting)

CastrTroy (595695) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994511)

Also, my experience is that a phone is no replacement for a proper GPS. I got a proper GPS (Garmin Oregon 450) and the difference between using this and my phone (or any phone I've used) is quite significant. The time to acquire and maintain a signal, the ability to read the screen in sunlight, the ruggedness (+! for actually being waterproof), and many other aspects make the phone seem like a poor substitute. Sure a phone will do in a pinch, but given the option, I'll always bring my actual GPS with me when there's a chance it could be useful. I think the same goes for a lot of other things you can use a cell phone for. Most of them can use the LED as a flashlight, but it's a poor substitute for an actual flashlight. They work as a camera, but I'd rather use a real camera (even a point and shoot) over a phone any day. I still can't comprehend why they can't just put an actual flash on a phone. I think they are kind of like having the ultimate Swiss Army knife [thisiswhyimbroke.com] . Technically it has 87 tools, but in the effort to add more and more tools into the thing, the tools themselves have been all but useless.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994551)

Except the Oregon series sucks dicks. Typical low end Garmin. Crap screen (yes, it's waterproof, but so's an otter box), crap maps,slow processor.

Mine sits in a box. If I really need a portable GPS it's either the iPhone or an iPad mini and a bluetooth GPS. Now, Garmin's high end marine and aircraft stuff is pretty good, but the consumer stuff is crap.

And it weren't for the iPhone and other smart phones, Garmin would still be using CRTs. A leading edge tech company, they are not.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994773)

The only Otter box that's waterproof is the "Armor" series, which costs $100, and which (currently) isn't even available for the iPhone 5s (it is available for the 5).

As far as the Oregon goes, I think it was a pretty good device for what I paid ($200). The maps that came with it are terrible (and that's being nice, even the few roads they do have on the base map are extremely inaccurate). but you can get free maps from OpenStreetMap that can be easily loaded onto it with a little bit of Googling. The screen is pretty low res, but that's part of the tradeoff for having a screen that's easily readable in sunlight, usable with gloves, and durable without adding another case on top.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2)

alen (225700) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994723)

on IOS you can buy tomtom, garmin, navigon and other apps that download maps to your device so you don't need a cell signal.

i've used navigon on an iphone 4s and it was accurate enough to know which lane of traffic i was in
Google Maps is awesome, but it sucks on android. every android phone i've used had crappy GPS where it wouldn't work unless the phone was on the windshield. and this includes the hyped and magical galaxy s3

Re: Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44995265)

You can't shut off the cellular entirely and just use the device's GPS.

Yes, but for most people... (1)

Radical Moderate (563286) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994725)

...the iphone GPS is good enough (as opposed to my old Android, whose GPS was worthless. YMMV, of course). And I'm guessing you don't carry your Garmin with you everywhere you go. The ultimate Swiss army knife is, of course, silly, but millions of people us iPhones every day. They may not be the best at anything, but they do a lot of things pretty well, and that's powerful.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

Paul Carver (4555) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994823)

Obviously model matters, but I stopped using a dedicated GPS specifically BECAUSE of time to acquire a signal. Granted both of the dedicated GPS units I bought are now quite old, but I needed a new cell phone anyway so I didn't really feel it was worth the extra money to keep buying newer dedicated GPS units.

My phone gets help from cell tower triangulation that jump starts the more accurate GPS acquisition. Neither of my dedicated GPS units have that. This really hits home when not wanting to spend extra for the optional GPS in a rental car at an airport. Bringing along my own GPS was a total waste because it would have a lot of trouble acquiring a location after a plane flight. My phone would have a good enough location fix while still inside the concrete parking structure whereas the dedicated GPS unit would take a good 5-10 minutes of clear sky view after pulling out of the parking onto an unfamiliar highway in a strange city.

Even at home, if I start Waze while walking to the car my phone will have a good fix by the time I buckle my seat belt whereas the dedicated GPS won't get a fix for at least 30-60 seconds after I start the car.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

dimeglio (456244) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995071)

I also have a "real" GPS and the time to acquire the signal is not practical. The iPhone do have real GPS and they also have assisted GPS to help acquire the signal quickly. Combine this will off-line maps and there's really no reason to get a real GPS if you have a GPS equipped smartphone. Unless you want a backup unit.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

tompaulco (629533) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995249)

a phone is no replacement for a proper GPS.

Yes, and didn't we just recently have an article where some state had made it illegal to use your phone as a GPS in a motor vehicle?
Not to mention, a good in-dash GPS is going to have inertial navigation as a backup, and your phone is not, although it does have accelerometers, they tend to be too cheap to be of much use for inertial navigation.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994767)

"Giving Apple or really any "smart device" company any credit here is incorrect. Garmin,et al with the advent of their in-car GPS solutions made paper maps obsolete."

Giving all the credit is incorrect, but they deserve quite a bit of it. To this day I know relatively few people who ever owned a stand alone GPS, as compared to almost everyone I know having a smartphone with a built in GPS. Also, every GPS I have ever seen was unable to recommend and locate a particular restaraunt, google for further information including reviews, and then direct me there. Apple changed the world. Saying they didn't is moronic at best. (Disclaimer: I personally don't use their products anymore, but I cut my teeth on an Apple II, and would never say they didn't do a great deal to change the world. See that GUI on your screen? Xerox PARC invented it, but Apple brought it to you, even if you now use a cheap imitation)

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

dimeglio (456244) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995095)

Xerox was uninterested in making that technology available for everyone. Apple was. Once Apple did, Microsoft decided to get into it as well with Windows. Apple delivered to everyone something Xerox would never have done.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995165)

I'm well aware. You basically just recapped what I wrote using different words. For further clarification, not all of Xerox was uninterested. Upper Management was uninterested. The Xerox PARC engineers knew it was a game changing technology when they invented it, and there was a great deal of resentment toward upper management for not grasping the potential.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2)

mpaque (655244) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995361)

And I think of the wonders XEROX brought to us every day when I fire up my Star and telnet about the Internet.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995447)

That's weird. I think of it when the administrative assistant copies something and bends over to put more paper in the copier.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994769)

Garmin,et al with the advent of their in-car GPS solutions made paper maps obsolete.

No, they didn't. I know no one who had a Garmin device, a Tom-Tom, or whatever. In-car navigation did more to eliminate paper maps, and the rise of smart phones - which was unarguably led by Apple - completely trounced the contribution of in-car navigation.

And then there's the rise of portable digital music. Not as impressive as the death of paper maps - after all, we all had Walkmans and lugged around tapes and later CDs. But carrying around several weeks worth of music? Yeah, sorry kids, but Creative was fucking shit and nobody cared about 16MB MP3 players. It took Apple to tear open that market.

Shall we go into laptops? Laptops were all but complete shit until the Macbook.

Tablets? Or are you going to say the Palm Pilot was a tablet, abloobloo?

Now, if you want to argue whether or not Apple has "changed the world" in some sort of hippie dippy eco-friendly spiritual manner, have at it. But nobody cares.

Apple has changed the market, the face of technology, and thus, has changed the world.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994457)

I know, a little over a decade ago I could hold a conversation with someone and they never stopped mid-sentence to reply to a text or facebook post on their cellphone. What would we do if the girl working in the drive through, convenience store, or grocery store check out couldn't text and ignore customers.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994783)

Obviously, you'd have to look elsewhere to complain, but I have faith that you would easily find something.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994483)

Apple didn't invent the technologies that allow that nor did they develop the chips, algorithms, etc. that allow it. Fan boy.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

elfprince13 (1521333) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994853)

Just to be clear, you're aware that, for example, LLVM/Clang, WebKit, and CUPS are all Apple developed at this point?

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2, Interesting)

gl4ss (559668) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994507)

given that the largest manufacturer of phones at the time was already on the market with real gps enabled phones when apple was announcing it's first phone with what fanbois at the time called "virtual gps"...

that's the thing. they didn't invent the smartphone. they didn't invent mapping. had nothing to do with gps. nothing to do with battery technology. nothing to do with chip fabs. everything to do with sweaters and BRAND recognition, so this title is fitting for them.

but just like ford didn't invent the car or the modern assembly line, facts don't stop them from hogging the credit(or fanbois placing credit both on the company and taking credit to buy the products).

so, things would be the same without them. capacitive control chipsets factories would have come online without them too. now where the fuck is my 1 terabyte ipod classic that I'm still waiting for?

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994729)

A brand is sometimes what makes an industry known....It's unfair to the innovators that made the product in the first place and get almost no recognition for it, but it seems like that is how the world works... Nothing will change that.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2)

sootman (158191) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995389)

> given that the largest manufacturer of phones at
> the time was already on the market with real gps
> enabled phones when apple was announcing it's
> first phone with what fanbois at the time called
> "virtual gps"...

I'd rather have Google Maps as it shipped on the original iPhone with just cell-tower triangulation, than a "real" GPS and the shitty-ass, small-screen maps that came with Nokias and BlackBerries of the day. Apple's #1 innovation was doing things that didn't suck out loud. Ever use the browser on a pre-Apple cell phone? They weren't just bad compared to the iPhone -- they were bad, period. You didn't even need something great to compare them to. They were so bad I was inspired to write about them a href="http://slashdot.org/journal/156498/web-browsers-on-pdas">in late 2006. Oh, and before Apple was around to strong-arm companies into creating decent data plans, cellular data was expensive as hell.

> nothing to do with battery technology.

Hard to say how the battery life compared, because I used my company-issued BB for NOTHING but short calls and occasional emails, versus my iPhone, which did MANY things and did them all VERY WELL. The iPhone isn't perfect for everyone, but for most people, all they need to do is get through a day on a charge, and most people do. As long as you sleep in the same room with an electrical outlet, that's usually enough.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994525)

UnknowingFool said
That sounds like sour grapes to me. Apple is one of many companies that has helped change the world with their "electronic devices". Just ten years ago, the average person would have to look up directions at home, or consult a paper map, or stop and ask for directions if they got lost. These days they pull out their smart phone and do the same thing. Sometimes they don't even need to key in anything and just use voice commands.

Hmmm... at least you have the right username.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2, Insightful)

interval1066 (668936) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994543)

Woz created the consumer personal computer. and Jobs certainly gets credit for knowing better than the HP execs when they asked him what consumers needed computers for. After that, it all comes down to the "great artists steal" line. And Jobs was like a robber baron.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

LordLimecat (1103839) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995329)

10 years ago we had mapquest, and thats not because of what Apple did. Id argue that the "omnipresent information" youre talking about is far more due to what Google did than what Apple did.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (2, Insightful)

interval1066 (668936) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994513)

That's what I'm talking about. The Mac-ites act like St. Steve cured cancer.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (4, Funny)

FreakyGeeky (23009) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994633)

> The Mac-ites act like St. Steve cured cancer.

I think it's quite obvious he didn't.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1, Funny)

Wookact (2804191) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995075)

No, but if its cured it in ten years the macites will give him credit, for bringing it to everyones attention.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

sootman (158191) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995323)

The mobile computer revolution will make the personal computer revolution look like the minicomputer revolution.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994635)

I'll sell sugared water rather than fuck up the world, thank you very much.

As a business history geek .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994687)

that statement has soooo much irony.

For one, he said that to John Sculley to get him away from Pepsi.

Sculley was one of the people who got Steve booted out of Apple and led to its downfall in the 90s (I WISH I bought the stock then!!!!).

And the fact that Apple is basically a luxury brand - well deserved -now, at least. Their products in the late 90s were shit - let's face it. I wish I never bought one of the 'flavor' Macs!

With Android and other tablet brands catching up (Samsung, Kindle Tablet), the only reason to buy Apple now is for the name and the large number of apps - which is rapidly disappearing. And I'd like to point out, there's many more free apps on other platforms from iOS - programs that do the same thing for the same quality that cost $0.99 or more on iTunes are free on Google Play.

Apple has a brand following that rivals everyone - Harley Davidson is pretty close, though.

There's more, but I'm at work and I have to figure out what will happen if the Republicans shut down the Government tonight.

Re:Obligatory Steve Jobs quote (1)

tompaulco (629533) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995275)

"Do you want to sell sugared water for the rest of your life? Or do you want to come with me and change the world?"
So, this was about metaphorical versus literal sugar water?

Figures (4, Funny)

i kan reed (749298) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994111)

Now that those brand-names raise only bile for me when I hear them, it figures the accountant class would value them.

Re: Figures (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994971)

The butthurt is strong with this one.

Re: Figures (3, Funny)

i kan reed (749298) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995367)

I think you need to retake anatomy. You've got the wrong part of the digestive system for bile.

Stock trending down (1, Informative)

geekoid (135745) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994175)

that's weird since Apple's stock is trending down over the last year, and coke is trending up .

Re: Stock trending down (5, Insightful)

the computer guy nex (916959) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994193)

Stock is trending down due to concerns over margins. Nothing to do with brand perception.

Re: Stock trending down (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994301)

Mod parent up.

There is only a loose correlation between good companies and good stocks. You might find the best company in the world but if stock is overvalued then the stock is lousy. Apple has long been priced based on very high earnings (i.e. profit) growth. It is not so much that Apple is declining but their competitors are catching up.

Re: Stock trending down (1)

Sir_Sri (199544) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994991)

And they're running out of room to grow without a new transformational product.

At this point a lot of the smartphones they're selling are just replacing the previous smartphone sold by apple 2 years ago. That's fine but it's not massive growth, or entering a new sector, so the price is going to reflect the expectation that they're not going to suddenly start selling 100 million new devices a year.

Re:Stock trending down (1)

rodrigoandrade (713371) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994273)

Brand value != market cap

Re:Stock trending down (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994299)

that's weird since Apple's stock is trending down over the last year, and coke is trending up .

That's because stock prices are repeatedly based on emotional responses from "investors" and not any actual quantifiable data.

Re:Stock trending down (1)

interval1066 (668936) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994557)

...emotional responses from "investors"...

Did they figure out a way to program emotion into those automated trading apps?

Re:Stock trending down (1)

alexander_686 (957440) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994855)

"In the short run, the market is a voting machine but in the long run it is a weighing machine." - Benjamin Graham. Father of fundamental stock analyst, teacher and inspiration to Warren Buffet.

Re:Stock trending down (2)

Kelbear (870538) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994623)

Valuation of intangible assets like a brand is (big surprise) very subjective. It's typically based on a combination of management data, management estimates, and extrapolation by the valuation consultants. Most likely it's primarily based on some estimate of how much of a premium Apple gets to charge it's customer for it's brand by carving that piece out of their margin and then extrapolating the income from that brand-distinction out into the future. Then they'd take that whole amount, then present-value it all based on an incremental borrowing rate to come up with a number, and compare it with some comparable brand values for reasonableness.

I've had to read through several valuation reports for start-up acquisitions, they're usually hundreds of pages of documentation of associated factors and weighting of different calculation methodologies, but when it all comes down to it, they hinge on inputs that are best guess estimates that are used because it's the best conclusion that management, valuation consultants, and their auditors could reach. Ultimately there is something intangible about the company causing it to be valued so much more than it's book value, and the assigned value of the intangible asset here is all they have in lieu of more reliable information like the sale of a comparable intangible asset in an open market (like how houses are valued).

Coca-cola, when you get down to it, just sells flavored sugar water. There's hundreds of sodas out there that taste just as good, but make terrible volumes and margins compared to Coke. Aside from their massive distribution and bottling contracting, all they've got is their brand which they juice up regularly with lots and lots of advertisement. Slashdot is constantly talking about how Apple's devices are overpriced, and come with an "apple tax" where customers are paying ridiculous premiums just to buy into the cult of Apple. I'm not terribly surprised that Apple's brand value would compete with Coke's. Which brand is valued higher is meaningless to me since both of them are just based on contrived estimates and a small change to the input estimates for either one would probably flip the ranking.

Re:Stock trending down (1)

H0p313ss (811249) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994939)

that's weird since Apple's stock is trending down over the last year, and coke is trending up .

Interestingly it's trending down if you look at the past 12 months, but up if you look at the last 6 or 48 or more.

If you look at a 5 year trend it's constantly up until a huge bubble for the first three quarters of 2012. Anyone remember what that was about?

Who wants to sell sugar water now?! (0)

dav1dc (2662425) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994181)

Or does that joke make more sense with s/Coca-Cola/Pepsi/g ?? ^_^

But Apple is still DOOOOMED (-1, Troll)

danaris (525051) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994189)

I can't wait to hear how the pundits will spin this as yet more evidence that Apple is a has-been company. Probably something along the lines of, "See? Apple is nothing but a cult! This proves it, and thus they are propped up by the Apple-faithful, not real people," or maybe, "This shows that Apple has abandoned innovation to focus on profits." And then there's the old favourite, "This would never have happened while Steve Jobs was alive!"

If there is bad news about Apple, it means Apple's doomed.

If there is neutral news about Apple, it means Apple's doomed.

If there is amazingly fantastic news about Apple, it still means Apple's doomed.

Dan Aris

Re:But Apple is still DOOOOMED (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994313)

I can't wait to hear how the pundits will spin this as yet more evidence that Apple is a has-been company. Probably something along the lines of, "See? Apple is nothing but a cult! This proves it, and thus they are propped up by the Apple-faithful, not real people," or maybe, "This shows that Apple has abandoned innovation to focus on profits." And then there's the old favourite, "This would never have happened while Steve Jobs was alive!"

If there is bad news about Apple, it means Apple's doomed.

If there is neutral news about Apple, it means Apple's doomed.

If there is amazingly fantastic news about Apple, it still means Apple's doomed.

Dan Aris

Not sure if serious or trying to parody the apple is doomed straw man crowd. I have hardly seen any claim that Apple is doomed or dying, except that some Apple-defenders keep bringing this up in any discussion that is about something they perceive as negative against Apple. Fx you can't talk about the fact that Android/Samsung sales and marketshare is racing ahead of Apple without someone aggressively putting the words Apple is dying in your mouth, and then proceed to attack this straw man. Samsung doing better than Apple doesn't mean they are dying, it just means Samsung is doing better. Full stop.

Re:But Apple is still DOOOOMED (1)

the computer guy nex (916959) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994479)

Samsung doing better than Apple doesn't mean they are dying, it just means Samsung is doing better. Full stop.

Quotes like this add to the 'Apple is Doomed' mantra.

Apple makes more profit from smartphones than every other manufacturer in the world (including Samsung) combined. Raw marketshare by selling low-cost devices isn't Apple, evident by the pricing of the 5c.

Re:But Apple is still DOOOOMED (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994589)

Samsung doing better than Apple doesn't mean they are dying, it just means Samsung is doing better. Full stop.

Quotes like this add to the 'Apple is Doomed' mantra.

Really?? That is what you read in that sentence?? Wow, just wow, ok I got it - every positive word or fact about anything non-Apple means that I'm claiming Apple's doom.

Apple makes more profit from smartphones than every other manufacturer in the world (including Samsung) combined. Raw marketshare by selling low-cost devices isn't Apple, evident by the pricing of the 5c.

And I've never claimed otherwise. No one have. You should Google straw man. But I do find it puzzling that people are cheering on extreme profits being extracted from the customers as a good thing. Myself I don't find this a thing to cheer on regardless of who are doing it. Healthy business yes, anything more - bring on the competition.

Re:But Apple is still DOOOOMED (0)

hahn (101816) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994765)

"Samsung doing better than Apple..."

What exactly does this mean? Profits? Samsung beat Apple in *one quarter* (barely) when the S4 just came out and the iPhone 5 was more than 6 months old. In any 4 quarters, Apple still beats Samsung in smartphone profits and the gap will likely widen this quarter.

And keep in mind that Samsung has churned out dozens of phone models (including cheap models that help them shore up profits by sheer volume) and released them in many more markets than Apple. It's like bragging that you beat Usain Bolt in a 100 meter dash while he had two broken ankles. Does that really prove how fast you run? It certainly doesn't mean you're slow, but are you really faster than Usain Bolt?

Hyundai and Kia make more cars than BMW. They're also "catching up" in profits [hyundai-blog.com] : . And yet, how many people draw comparisons between the two companies saying that Hyundai is "doing better" than BMW? By making the comparison, you are implying that the success of one company is going to hurt the success of the other.

Re:But Apple is still DOOOOMED (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44995319)

"Samsung doing better than Apple..." What exactly does this mean? Profits? Samsung beat Apple in *one quarter* (barely) when the S4 just came out and the iPhone 5 was more than 6 months old. In any 4 quarters, Apple still beats Samsung in smartphone profits and the gap will likely widen this quarter.

So, the sentence right before the one you cut out talked specifically about sales and market share. So let's assume there was a context. And it is just a simple irrefutable fact that Samsung has higher sales and market share. There shouldn't be any reason to put any feelings into this. I don't care about Samsung at all, and I don't have one. But it is still a fact.

And keep in mind that Samsung has churned out dozens of phone models (including cheap models that help them shore up profits by sheer volume) and released them in many more markets than Apple. It's like bragging that you beat Usain Bolt in a 100 meter dash while he had two broken ankles. Does that really prove how fast you run? It certainly doesn't mean you're slow, but are you really faster than Usain Bolt?

I have not claim otherwise in any way or form. You are attacking your own straw man.

Hyundai and Kia make more cars than BMW. They're also "catching up" in profits [hyundai-blog.com] : . And yet, how many people draw comparisons between the two companies saying that Hyundai is "doing better" than BMW? By making the comparison, you are implying that the success of one company is going to hurt the success of the other.

You have never seen a car sales statistics with brands like Toyota on the top and BMW well down the list? With corresponding articles saying that car brand x this quarter increased market share, car brand y decreased share. I have all the time. The difference is, there isn't a lot of BMW supporters that starts screeming "stop claiming BMW is doomed and dying!!!!" every time somebody calls out the fact that Toyota sells more cars. It is a mind-boggling reaction to what is actually being said. Especially when people later keep talking about "all the people talking about Apple dying" when the only ones who have been doing that are themselves..

Re:But Apple is still DOOOOMED (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994363)

Of course. I has to be FAITH.

It just shows (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994197)

Way too many sheeple buying apple products nowaday's and being rammed up the ass by Steve jobs ghost as he shove's his ectoplasm ghost cock up your ass so you enjoy apple products and wear turtlenecks and pretend you are a hipster!

Re:It just shows (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994213)

I'm sorry you weren't able to have nice things as a child. Perhaps counselling would help?

Re: It just shows (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994401)

I wanted an oscilloscope as a teenager, not the latest shiny from the Apple Store. I guess people like me are just part of the old Slashdot, and we are in a new era.

At the rate they are going..... (5, Funny)

Dega704 (1454673) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994235)

Soon they will replace Christianity as the #1 religion.

Re:At the rate they are going..... (3, Funny)

Dega704 (1454673) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994247)

"In Jobs We Trust"

Re:At the rate they are going..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994369)

If you mean globally, Christianity is a distant second to Islam.

And I suspect there's been more Apple products sold in America than there are Christians.

Re:At the rate they are going..... (2)

disposable60 (735022) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994531)

Partly because most who own one iDevice on multiples, but you can only be one Christian/Religion at a time. (Unitarian Universalists notwithstanding)

Re:At the rate they are going..... (3, Informative)

TheSkepticalOptimist (898384) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994535)

I'd love to run a company with "distant" second numbers like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups [wikipedia.org]

Why don't people just Wiki something first.

Re:At the rate they are going..... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994811)

That page is obviously wrong... The Church of Scientology is not a "religion"

Re:At the rate they are going..... (1)

QuantumLeaper (607189) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994563)

Christians are at 2 billion, Islam is at 1.3 billion. Sounds like Apple fans only wishing they were number one even though they have always been second.

Re:At the rate they are going..... (1)

SirGarlon (845873) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994603)

If you mean globally, Christianity is a distant second to Islam.

That's an incorrect statement, easily refuted by checking Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] or a Google search [google.com] .

And I suspect there's been more Apple products sold in America than there are Christians.

At first I was skeptical. There are 234 million [census.gov] adults in the United States, of whom approximately 44% [nationmaster.com] attend church regularly; so you're guessing that more than 103 million Apple devices have been sold in the US? Apple, Inc. has been around since 1976, so you may be right, if you count every iPod and every Mac and so on all the way back to the Apple I.

Re:At the rate they are going..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994373)

Soon they will replace Christianity as the #1 religion.

Well, it is scientifically proven that they evoke the same feelings [cnet.co.uk] among their followers.

Re:At the rate they are going..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994425)

Since his death, Steve Jobs latest product is the iRoast.

Re:At the rate they are going..... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994665)

At least Apple products are real. Unlike any part of Christian theology.

Remember CEO Sculley? (1)

Junior J. Junior III (192702) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994309)

It's about time. Coca Cola merely sells sugar water.

Re:Remember CEO Sculley? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994553)

Do you remember when Coke announced they were going to discontinue the Classic Coke... I do... My mother had cases and cases of coke in every closet under the beds and stuffed in the air conditioner ducts. I'm sure we could see the same response again but I doubt it would happen for Apple.

They might the most valuable, but they still suck (2, Insightful)

smooth wombat (796938) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994585)

Having had to go through the process of creating Apple IDs and using false information*, not to mention the harassment Apple foists upon people who use their phones, and now finding they've automatically shoved out iOS 7 on new phones with no way to downgrade**, all I can say is their user experience just plain sucks.

If you wanted people to choose a title and phone number, why wait until they're installing an app to prevent them from continuing until they provide the information?

If they wanted people to choose 3 security questions, why wait until you're installing an app and not let them bypass that requirement? It's not their phone, it's the end user.

Linus' quote keeps coming back to be more and more true: You don't break userspace.

By their ineptness, Apple has officially become the new Microsoft.

* Have to use false information because these are for corporate use and apparently the 'geniuses' at Apple can't figure out a way to allow for corporate information to be used so I have to input false information to create IDs.

** The security software we use has not yet been approved for iOS 7 and as of today it appears the new phones are shipping with the new OS with no way to go back to the good version.

Re:They might the most valuable, but they still su (2)

hondo77 (324058) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994861)

Your security software vendor wasn't on the ball enough to port to iOS 7 in time, even though they had plenty of time to do it, and this is Apple's fault why?

Re:They might the most valuable, but they still su (4, Informative)

_xeno_ (155264) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995063)

Here's a better question: why doesn't iOS 7 work with iOS 6 compatible apps?

That officially rules Apple out of being "the new Microsoft:" Microsoft has never been dumb enough to break existing apps on their OSes. If there's one thing Microsoft deserves credit for, it's the ridiculous extents they go through to make sure old apps keep working.

Apple is the exact opposite way: if you allow Mac OS X to upgrade your iOS development environment, you will entirely lose the ability to target anything except iOS 7. There is no way to go back, other than to find "pirated" sources of older versions of Xcode. (Xcode is free, so "pirated" isn't quite the right word here, but you know what I mean - sources that don't use the Apple app store.)

Re:They might the most valuable, but they still su (3, Informative)

alexhs (877055) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995395)

if you allow Mac OS X to upgrade your iOS development environment, you will entirely lose the ability to target anything except iOS 7

No. It's just that the new default is to build armv7(s) + arm64, and arm64 is not supported on previous iOS versions. Build for 32 bits architectures only, and you will be able to choose older targets.

Re:They might the most valuable, but they still su (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44995101)

this is Apple's fault why?

Because Apple didn't ask them if they wanted the upgrade shoved down their throats; they just pried their jaws open and pushed it in.

Re:They might the most valuable, but they still su (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44995271)

Because you can't install the version of the OS you want on your device!

I can install any Cyanogen version I'd like on my phone that it will run. Or whatever other flavor of Android I'm into. Same for my Android tablets.

That said, I did upgrade my iPad this weekend to iOS 7. I am not wild about the new icon set, but other than that I figure there's better security, performance tuning, etc. I wasn't happy that it asked me to set up a security code - which I would promptly disable because my 3 year old uses it to watch videos (think dvd player without finger-smudged dvds). It occurred to me that the home button finger-print reader would increase security in my use case.

Re:They might the most valuable, but they still su (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44995033)

Having had to go through the process of creating Apple IDs and using false information*

I suspect you might want to actually learn something about the device you're using and how to deploy it.

now finding they've automatically shoved out iOS 7 on new phones with no way to downgrade**

Expect Apple doesn't force you to upgrade your iOS, and you can downgrade for a limited time frame, and could have restored from a previous backup.

But go on being shitty IT.

Re:They might the most valuable, but they still su (1)

smooth wombat (796938) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995089)

I suspect you might want to actually learn something about the device you're using and how to deploy it.

What does filling out information on a web page have to do with using a device? It doesn't except for the fact one has to fill out the information to use the device.

Expect Apple doesn't force you to upgrade your iOS, and you can downgrade for a limited time frame, and could have restored from a previous backup.

I received a new phone today which is running iOS 7. There is no way for me to put 6.xx on the phone so it can be used now. Thus, Apple is forcing an upgrade.

and could have restored from a previous backup.

As stated above, it's a new phone so no backup. Further, for security reasons, we don't use iCloud on any of our phones.

But go on being shitty IT.

Sounds like I know what I'm talking about and you don't. So who's the shitty IT now?

Re:They might the most valuable, but they still su (2)

intermodal (534361) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995221)

Their status as the new Microsoft has been cemented by the fact that you may find them completely unresponsive to and unsuitable for your needs, but you bought them anyway.

Re:They might the most valuable, but they still su (1)

sootman (158191) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995281)

Hear, hear. Damn them for not being able to accommodate every possible obscure need and edge case!

Are you really just now discovering that "they've automatically shoved out iOS 7 on new phones with no way to downgrade"? You mean, they are SHIPPING NEW DEVICES with the new OS, just like they've done the previous FIVE TIMES -- i.e., EVERY TIME -- they've released a new model?

If you really, really, really needed devices with iOS 6, you had 10 days between the announcement of the 5c/5s and the first availability date to buy, and judging by history, you had MONTHS notice that new devices with the new system were coming in summer or early fall. EVERY iPhone has been released within the same 4-month window.

iPhone release dates:
1st gen: June 29, 2007
3G: July 11, 2008
3GS: June 19, 2009
4: June 24, 2010
4S: October 14, 2011
5: September 21, 2012
5C and 5S: September 20, 2013

There is one thing Apple does do right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994775)

There are two things Apple does right which IMHO, few companies are doing on the consumer level:

1: Customer support. Apple's hardware isn't 100% perfect. However, Apple's CS is a lot better than the competition on the Joe Consumer level. For computer companies, you need to enroll in business level "gold" support for a similar level of service. Try to call into another PC provider with a question, expect to either be hung up on, or be handed over to a "consultant" division for $250/hour.

2: Quality. While virtually every other company has been cutting corners like everything has to be a circle [1], Apple has kept from "cheaping out". This is extremely rare these days where "they don't make them like they used to" is the motto for virtually every product one buys today.

[1]: The perception that name brand hand tools with an lifetime warranty made now are far worse than the same tools made 20 years ago is an example of this.

Re:There is one thing Apple does do right... (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994897)

Most other companies will give you a cheaper option. Apple just did that with their phones for the first time, and seems resistant to options in general, in both their hardware and software. It's not better, it's just different. If you don't have a lot of money but still want a laptop or phone, it's most definitely not better.

Re:There are three things Apple does do right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44995151)

Customer Support, Quality, User Interface Design and Application Development. Those are the four things that Apple does right.

"consultancy" (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | 1 year,23 days | (#44994919)

"According to consultancy firm Interbrand's latest 'Best Global Brands' report, Apple is now the world's most valuable brand, with an estimated worth of $98.4 billion.

No need to "estimate" Apple's worth. You just multiply the number of outstanding shares by the stock price and you get the exact value of the company according to the "free market".

However, since Apple's stock is down almost 1/2 in the past year, I don't see how it's possible that suddenly in September of 2013 Apple has become the world's most valuable brand.

It sounds like "Interbrand" consultancy might just have a client in Cupertino, that hopes some well-placed "Apple is #1" stories will shore up a dropping stock price.

Here's a stock chart for AAPL, in case you want to check for yourself.
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL+Interactive#symbol=aapl;range=20120924,20130923;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined [yahoo.com] ;

Re:"consultancy" (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995325)

The value of the brand does not equal the market cap of the company.

Basically, the value of a brand is the difference in price between a generic product and a basically identical branded product. For example, a generic 2-button blazer goes for about $120, whereas Brooks Brothers brand goes for $650, making the value of the Brooks Brothers brand $530. Multiply that by the estimated size of the market, and you have an idea of what the value of the brand is.

Re:"consultancy" (1)

PopeRatzo (965947) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995519)

For example, a generic 2-button blazer goes for about $120, whereas Brooks Brothers brand goes for $650, making the value of the Brooks Brothers brand $530.

You're conflating price and value.

The value of the Brooks Brother blazer is not $530 more than the generic one. The price is $530 more.

Ask someone who owns a Galaxy S4 or a Asus Nexus whether the Apple brand on the competing device is worth more.

No, if you're talking about the "value of a brand" it's basically marketing, nothing more.

Seriously? (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44994985)

Does anyone seriously think Apple has a higher economic value or better brand recognition than Google? What planet do these people live on? Over 90% of internet users use Google services on a daily basis. Hell, Google even makes the biggest mobile OS (58% of the market, versus Apple's 32%), and that's Apple's main market, presently.

Beginning of the en.. (1)

h8sg8s (559966) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995011)

This usually happens right before the company tanks. Also, huge edifices as home office/campus are another deadly sign. poof! It'll be over before you know it Apple.

Terrible Headline (2)

Lieutenant_Dan (583843) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995049)

"Brand" and "Knock-off" should be carefully used in the same sentence.

For 10 seconds I thought that Apple was branching off and selling some new cola that tastes like Coke(tm).

Re:Terrible Headline (1)

intermodal (534361) | 1 year,23 days | (#44995237)

I was hoping that was the case. My cola doesn't have enough DRM in it yet, and I can share it with my friends, which shouldn't be allowed at all.

You know what they say: (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44995429)

No one ever got fired for buying Apple!

Useless... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 days | (#44995525)

The ranking is useless. They only *now* give Apple this prestigous spot. If they deserve it *now*, they deserved it long ago. In my experience the Apple brand seems to have reached a saturation point.

Also, I'm having a hard time seeing how IBM factors so highly. Most of the rest in that list have direct consumer businesses and therefore a much wider scope of the market. IBM has a relatively more narrow focus and any brand perception in the general populace is mostly a moot point.

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