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Snowden Shortlisted For Europe's Top Human Rights Award

Soulskill posted 1 year,21 days | from the i'm-guessing-the-us-government-won't-give-him-an-award dept.

EU 273

another random user sends this news from the BBC: "Edward Snowden, the fugitive American former intelligence worker, has made the shortlist of three for the Sakharov prize, Europe's top human rights award. Mr Snowden was nominated by Green politicians in the European Parliament for leaking details of U.S. surveillance. Nominees also include Malala Yousafzai, the Pakistani teenager shot in the head for demanding education for girls. Former recipients of the prize, awarded by the European Parliament, include Nelson Mandela and Aung San Suu Kyi. Mr Snowden's nomination recognized that his disclosure of U.S. surveillance activities was an 'enormous service' to human rights and European citizens, the parliament's Green group said."

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Comparative sacrifice (5, Insightful)

themushroom (197365) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007461)

Malala gets this one hands-down. Both made very important statements we must pay attention to, but a fucking headshot beats hanging out in a Russian airport IMHO.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007581)

No kidding.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45008183)

Giving it to Snowden at least is partial reparation for the ludicrous decision of giving Big Brother Obummer the Nobel Peace Prize. He's been worse than dipshit Dubya in pretty much every category. And with Dubya being borderline retarded that's saying something:

Re:Comparative sacrifice (5, Interesting)

SecurityTheatre (2427858) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007625)

Agreed.

Normally I would scoff at Snowden being included on a list like this. I was a bit put off by Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize before actually doing anything, and a bit put off at Assange being nominated for something simliar, because both seemed like self-serving political statements to me, but on reflection, what Snowden has done was controlled, targeted and highly effective, in my opinion. It was far from the uncontrolled dump that Bradley Manning did, or the barely-controlled shitstorm that Assange supervised.

In the same vein, the leak, while angering many Americans, should be a huge benefit for citizens of every country, both outside the US, but also inside. A great gain for Europeans, as far as awareness of human rights issues.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008001)

because both seemed like self-serving political statements to me, but on reflection, ...

On reflection, all awards are self-serving political statements.

It was far from the uncontrolled dump that Bradley Manning did, or the barely-controlled shitstorm that Assange supervised.

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly people get up-modded these days for using toilet humor while discussing serious topics of global relevance.

In the same vein, the leak, while angering many Americans, should be a huge benefit for citizens of every country, both outside the US, but also inside. A great gain for Europeans, as far as awareness of human rights issues.

The leak by itself accomplishes nothing; The activities disclosed had already happened by then, and the damage done. And there is little evidence to date that the leaks have dampened the spirits of those under scrutiny to engage in similar behavior. Knowledge, understanding, intelligence, and awareness only enables action; It does not, by itself, constitute action. In truth, one of mankind's oldest delusions is belief that an enhanced understanding of the problem will necessarily lead to that problem being fixed. Snowden may have pointed out that the United States is behaving trashy... but we have yet to find someone willing to take out the trash.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (3, Insightful)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008275)

The leak accomplishes a lot. Maybe not in the short term, but in the long term it is causing us to take a much greater look at security that will not only prevent NSA style spying, but very easily could further harden the global cloud infrastructure at large against data breaches. Namely, if we go out of our way to secure our information against even those who have physical access to it, then it makes it that much harder for somebody else to get a hold if it as well, legally or not.

Something as big as this, hitting something as well established as what we already have, isn't going to change overnight or even over a year: This could take up to a decade because we're not only looking at software changes, but also hardware changes in a big ocean of already existing datacenters.

What I'm thinking of is data storage akin to mega where only the end user holds the keys. Others are already working on their own variants of this same concept, only they're trying to do so in such a way that makes content manipulation possible while leaving the data secured. Yes, I'm aware of the possible exploit of the website feeding you a bogus javascript page that steals your keys, however that can be fixed.

And by the way, I don't think he was upmodded for toilet humor, rather the message just happened to contain it. Besides, toilet humor has its place, and I think it's suitable here. If it offends you, you should probably disconnect from the internet and go live in a tree somewhere.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0, Troll)

girlintraining (1395911) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008417)

The leak accomplishes a lot. Maybe not in the short term, but

But nothing. No good or service has been generated by the leak. The idea that speech, in and of itself, accomplishes anything is stupid; Were it otherwise, I could march out into the woods and talk to the trees and make a fortune. Words are not actions. Words are words. When people listen, and choose to take action because of them, then the words have value. Not until, or unless. The founding fathers didn't just sit down, bang out the Constitution, and then call it at that, having won the entire revolutionary war. They said what they had to say, to organize people to fight. And when they fought, and won, those words became meaningful.

Leaking by itself accomplishes nothing. Nadda. Zip. If it offends you, you should probably disconnect from the internet and go live in a tree somewhere.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008723)

Internet balls eh?

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008851)

The founding fathers didn't just sit down, bang out the Constitution, and then call it at that, having won the entire revolutionary war. They said what they had to say, to organize people to fight. And when they fought, and won, those words became meaningful.

Says the person who is doing the exact same thing they are whining about.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (4, Insightful)

PrimaryConsult (1546585) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008867)

But without the leak, how would anyone even think action would need to take place? Acting on the information without revealing it would have guaranteed a stamp of "terrorist crackpot" and maybe a 3rd page article in a few papers. Would you rather small groups of people randomly taking action on suspicions and assumptions all of the time? Meaningful action requires being well informed.

Yes leaking by itself accomplishes nothing, but how much on this front be accomplished without the leak?

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008459)

It is also helping out the same people that shot the girl in the head for going to school. It is also helping out the cartels and gangsters by exposing programs to catch them and will create more victims out of the good people in the world.

Way to go...idiots.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (2)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008993)

Yes, because we all know how successful government spying on every citizen had managed to keep Muslim militants in line and cartels and gangsters from existing.

Boston Marathon bombing.
Sarin Gas attack by Syria.
School shooting rampages
9/11
1000 killed by car bombs in Iraq in September alone
One Drug Killing every half hour in Mexico

With protection like that, who needs them!

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008497)

The term "shitstorm" is not "toilet humor". It's not a joke nor used as one. You make decent posts most times but then you make ones with completely stupid statements like above.

Oh and in reference to "toilet humor" you do know that the authors of classics like Chaucer used toilet humor himself, right? The Canterbury Tales contains fart jokes in it. Shakespeare did as well.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

pr0nbot (313417) | 1 year,20 days | (#45009181)

Maybe he meant "uncontrolled dump"?

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

sjames (1099) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008997)

So, your contention is that there is no point in reporting a crime because 'the activities disclosed had already happened by then, and the damage done'?

Re:Comparative sacrifice (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008285)

The great patriot has done everything he can to weaken the United States of America. He can rot in Siberia for all I care.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (5, Interesting)

interkin3tic (1469267) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008323)

This is a trivial tangent, but you seem to place more emphasis on not angering people than I do. Assange, Snowden, and Manning did upset a lot of Americans who thought they were traitors. I'm not sure how that matters. It wasn't a popularity contest, it was telling us our rights were being trampled on, and that we were doing ugly things.

How the message was delivered is less important as well. Manning couldn't exactly form a team to manage the data better without arousing some suspicions and shutting it down before it got anywhere. Lamo stabbed him in the back after all. And Assange may be an egomaniac, but people who do unusual things often are. Anyway, if the messenger is annoying, that may make you want to shoot him more if you already wanted to shoot someone for the message, but you should resist that temptation.

controlled and targetted? (-1, Flamebait)

Shakrai (717556) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008621)

but on reflection, what Snowden has done was controlled, targeted and highly effective

Is that why he leaked national security secrets that have NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with domestic American civil liberties?

Whatever one may think of the NSA, spying on foreign countries/actors is perfectly legitimate, it raises no Constitutional questions, and IMHO there was no valid to leak ANYTHING about NSA's foreign SIGINT programs. The damage that Mr. Snowden has done to the American intelligence community is incalculable and WILL cost lives going forward.

If he had limited himself to leaking information about their domestic activities I might have a different opinion of him, but I'm having a hard time seeing how leaking information about NSA's operations against China (just to pick one, there are others...) is anything but providing aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States.

Re:controlled and targetted? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45009045)

PRISM, purposefully weakening encryption, putting backdoors in products sold domestically, etc. seems to cover their actions against US citizens.

The damage that Mr. Snowden has done to the American intelligence community is incalculable and WILL cost lives going forward.

Bullshit. That was claimed about Manning's leak. But then it was acknowledged [telegraph.co.uk] that no one had any actual evidence that anyone was actually harmed by it.

The sentencing hearing began with testimony from retired Brigadier General Robert Carr, who in 2010 led an emergency Pentagon review into the impact of leaked war logs from Iraq and Afghanistan.
Although the mass leak "hit us in the face" the review did not find any evidence that civilians named in the secret files had then been targeted by militants, Gen Carr said.

but I'm having a hard time seeing how leaking information about NSA's operations against China (just to pick one, there are others...) is anything but providing aid and comfort to the enemies of the United States.

Bullshit. Even James Clapper says otherwise:

As loath as I am to give any credit for what has happened here, which is egregious, some of the conversations that it has generated, some of the debate, is probably needed. So if there's a good side to this, maybe that's it.
Transparency of course is a double-edged sword. It's great for us, great for our citizens. But of course the adversary goes to school on that transparency too. But I'm convinced we have to err on the side of more transparency because, most importantly, we won't have any of this if we don't have the trust and confidence of citizens and their elected representatives.

And other quotes:

Nigel Inkster, former deputy chief of British intelligence service MI6, suggests of the leaks that they were “very embarrassing, uncomfortable, and unfortunate” but that while embarrassing the impact may not have been particularly great as “I sense that those most interested in the activities of the NSA and GCHQ have not been told very much they didn't know already or could have inferred.” He also suggests that Germany and other US allies have not been as outraged as they have seemed “The tears that have been shed internationally have been of the crocodile variety” so there is unlikely to be any reduction in ties between their intelligence agencies.

Stop believing the fear mongering nonsense told to you by people who only stand to gain power, favor and/or financial rewards by furthering these surveillance dragnets.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

Tom (822) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008673)

A great gain for Europeans, as far as awareness of human rights issues.

I wish.

Unfortunately, the global elite that's playing power games is super-national and has been for many years. It's been very, very obvious that nobody in my countries government really gave a shit about the whole NSA stuff. I personally think that half of them would easily be convicted of breaking their oath to protect the constitution and the people, if only someone had the guts to bring charges.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008825)

what Snowden has done was controlled, targeted and highly effective, in my opinion

Does the world have more or less freedoms before or after what he did?
Am I the only one who questions what the cost of clandestine surveillance really is?
Seriously... if you didn't know about it until Snowden told you... what's the cost.

It's kind of like grabbing your neighbor's tools for a job and putting them back when you're done. If you didn't break and enter, there weren't any no trespassing signs, nobody told you to leave... what is it? An ethics issue FOR SURE, but not really a good area to claim a basic human right.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007639)

It's not like you'd actually ask to be shot in the head to prove your worth. I could get shot trying to tie my shoelace, doesn't mean I worked harder than Snowden.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (4, Insightful)

Nemesisghost (1720424) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007819)

It's not like you'd actually ask to be shot in the head to prove your worth.

No, but it takes a lot more guts to stand up to armed gunmen for what you believe in than run away where they can't get you. She might not have chosen to take a bullet to the head, but she did choose to confront the cowards & show the world what they truly are and risk her life doing so. Unlike what some would like, Snowden only risked life behind bars.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (4, Insightful)

timeOday (582209) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007865)

That's the problem with this kind of award, it turns it into a contest which seems rather gauche. "Oh yeah, well this person got shot in the head, beat that!"

Re:Comparative sacrifice (2)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008077)

That's the problem with this kind of award, it turns it into a contest which seems rather gauche. "Oh yeah, well this person got shot in the head, beat that!"

That's reason enough to not use that as a criteria for the award. They should be asking how much of an impact the individual had on human rights and for how many people (and probably giving weight to impact on Europeans for this prize).

Malala was very brave, had a terrible thing happen to her, by very bad people, and stood up for an excellent cause. But, I fear that while it makes a great human interest story, if she was killed by the attacker, we probably would not have heard much of her story and she wouldn't be on the short list for the prize.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (5, Insightful)

kruach aum (1934852) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008093)

This is a human rights prize, not a guts prize. Utilitaristically, Snowden has done a lot more for a lot more people than Malala Yousafzai.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0)

Jeff Flanagan (2981883) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008253)

Snowden got in way over his head, fell in with a bad crowd (Greenwald/Wikileaks), and made himself into an FSB asset. This may wind up worse than what Malala experienced.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008641)

Hey, aren't you guys suppose to leave your office this morning due to the U.S. government shutdown?

Does your boss know you are still trolling forums?

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008267)

Unlike what some would like, Snowden only risked life behind bars.

Not so - Washington power brokers were calling for Snowden to swing from the gallows, and that's after he got NDAA'ed and waterboarded at Gitmo.

Obama offered to not execute him for one specific charge if Putin would give him up.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

aNonnyMouseCowered (2693969) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008661)

"Unlike what some would like, Snowden only risked life behind bars."

Only life behind bars? Funny things can happen in jail, you know. And maybe you should tell the innocents that were incarcarated in Guatanamo that they should be happy because they were still set free and not killed on the spot.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

Tom (822) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008717)

Snowden only risked life behind bars.

What kind of fantasy world are you living in where pissing off several of the most powerful intelligence agencies is not risking your life? These guys routinely kill people for a lot less.

Plus awards should be given for what you did and what good that caused to happen, not for what evil has befallen you. If that were what matters, there are many thousands who had it much worse than a headshot.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (5, Interesting)

anagama (611277) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007661)

Snowden's revelations are much more important to the world as a whole. That the punishment wreaked on the person in Pakistan is much worse than that Snowden has yet received is beside the point. By exposing a corrupt machine that is used in the process of killing numerous innocents around the world through drone attacks is but one example of how Snowden's information can save many lives. Then of course there is the privacy right of the entire fucking planet. Female education abuses in some parts of Pakistan are important, but they just aren't anything like the scale of Snowden's whistleblowing.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (4, Interesting)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008073)

I'd have to say education is a much more important, more fundamental right than phone/internet privacy. The damage done to people and societies by preventing girls from going to school is much greater than the NSA reading their emails.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

fredprado (2569351) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008221)

It is not phone/internet privacy. It is just privacy, period. And no, education, albeit important, is not more important than privacy or freedom.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (2)

Deluvianvortex (2908365) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008379)

Without education, there is no privacy or freedom. You are a slave to your masters with no hope of self-sufficiency.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (2)

Atzanteol (99067) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008767)

I think that comparing "importance" is very difficult. But in this situation I think on the grounds of "impact" Snowden carries the day. But then I'm an American and see the impact of Snowden more first-hand.

It depends on what criteria this group judges by.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

fredprado (2569351) | 1 year,20 days | (#45009067)

Nah, you are inverting stuff here. Without privacy and freedom there is no education, only indoctrination.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008443)

It is not phone/internet privacy. It is just privacy, period. And no, education, albeit important, is not more important than privacy or freedom.

You're shifting the goalpost. Privacy is not a necessary component of freedom (in truth privacy has always been an illusion anyway).

Education is more important than Privacy.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008697)

I can't understand why y'all are having this hiss-fit. They're both equally necessary to freedom. If the founders of the US weren't both A) smart enough to realize the direction their lives were headed under the rule of England, and smart enough to take steps to correct this, and B) had enough privacy where they they could meet and plan these activities in the various pubs, halls and homes, quite frankly you'd not be having this conversation.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

fredprado (2569351) | 1 year,20 days | (#45009075)

Yes it is. Without a fair amount of privacy there is no freedom.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (5, Insightful)

Dasher42 (514179) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008635)

I'd have to say education is a much more important, more fundamental right than phone/internet privacy. The damage done to people and societies by preventing girls from going to school is much greater than the NSA reading their emails.

It's not just privacy. It's the right not to be scrutinized by an agency of a government that calls its own dissenting citizens who speak out about oil spills, bloody wars on false pretenses, dangerous chemical pollution, or corruption "terrorists". It's a right to have a voice and dignity and due process in a law-abiding country instead of being tampered with and manipulated by bought politicians serving as the lackeys of their for-profit corporate donors.

This ties into every issue anywhere that the NSA and related agencies project power, and that's all over the globe. It's everywhere a grassroots needs to step up to a corporate/government/financial juggernaut about anything, including the women in school in Pakistan.

This government will give everything you've sent or received through your phone or your laptop to a foreign agency with at most a rubber stamp from a court that the public knows nothing about, but will - yes - hand the educational system of America over to predatory lenders and ensconced social elites rather than earnest teachers and staff.

The government that is invading privacy is also denying your right to know about what is in your food and your medicine. Seen the recent headline about Bayer? This same government that has invaded all of our privacy still guarded Bayer's secrecy when its medication for hemophiliacs was infected with HIV and has thus allowed hundreds, perhaps thousands of people to be infected, to protect Bayer's profits at the cost of lives.

This government will record your every call, but it won't prosecute the banks which shredded the world's economy and have illegally foreclosed homes - some of which were owned by people who'd bought them with cash with no bank involved, ever, for "lack of evidence."

And yes, this government will send drones over skies foreign and domestic, and without due process fire missiles, napalm, chemicals, and bullets made of radioactive waste into civilian areas all over the planet, including Pakistan. Schools count, but imagine going to school where the missiles can fall arbitrarily. It will call the instigators of these crimes leaders, and the whistleblowers traitors, and use these privacy-invading tools to manipulate people and hunt down those who step out of line.

This government will protect Wall Street while infiltrating dissenting movements with psy-ops and undercover agitators who generate the props for cheap propaganda to justify gestapo tactics in a supposedly free country, and use its surveillance tools to know better how to deliver its deceitful war. PRISM is an abuse of power meant to help politicians abuse even more power at will.

Malala and Snowden have both done awesome things in the face of power that would crush them and kill them and then lie to the public about the whole matter, and it'd be stupid to compare their personal level of heroism. I mean, some of us might only get the clear opportunity to get a cat out of a tree, whatever our merit. Snowden got a chance to expose an oppressor of a much more central and global nature. That's what makes his arena more widely significant, and I think that deserves consideration.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

Zero__Kelvin (151819) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008813)

"I'd have to say education is a much more important, more fundamental right than phone/internet privacy"

If you think the big issue is that they were reading emails then you are one of the most clueless people on the planet.

" The damage done to people and societies"

There can be no greater damage to a (supposed) democracy than the undermining of every principle for which is stood. There are many countries where women are free to get an education, and I certainly insist that it is an inalienable right that none should be denied, however if that education is not the education that comes from a free society it is useless. The freedom to learn is only valuable if the content of the education is wholesome. It does no good to educate the boys and the girls when the class is held in a Hitler Youth [wikipedia.org] Camp. If the education one receives is the kind that leaves one saying "what's the big deal about the NSA reading people's emails" in response to recent revelations, then that education is beyond useless. It is highly detrimental.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (2, Insightful)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008377)

Was going to say the same thing, it's horrible that Malala got shot in the face but this isn't a Suffering At the Hands of Tyrants Award AFAIK.

And leaking proof that the NSA is spying on everyone on the planet and making a mockery of the US legal system > saying inspiring things in the name of women's education in a particular region of the middle east. Sorry.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

arobatino (46791) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007851)

On the other hand, Snowden didn't know he'd be able to get asylum, and the death penalty was only taken off the table [washingtonpost.com] in an attempt to keep the Russians from giving it to him.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (2)

girlintraining (1395911) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007905)

Malala gets this one hands-down. Both made very important statements we must pay attention to, but a fucking headshot beats hanging out in a Russian airport IMHO.

Arguably, they are risking the same thing: Both knew that they were taking a bullet to the head risk. Only one got a bullet to the head. If we're judging these people on the basis of the risks they took on behalf of human rights, they are equal. If we're only judging them based on how much punishment they took for making the choices they did, then all human rights' awards would be post-humous.

Although both were risking death, the fact that one of them escaped it apparently matters to you. I sincerely hope you are a minority here -- thinking like this leads to terrorism. Afterall, if you can only be recognized after being turned into a martyr...

Martyr is not preferable but it happens (2)

themushroom (197365) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008159)

I see what you are saying, however there is a difference between dying for a cause and dying because of a cause.

Had the Taliban successfully snuffed her, she'd already be a martyr -- and a reinforcement why the Taliban must be stopped. Malala gets recognised for standing up for her rights, whether she got capped or not... the fact that she took one to the lobe made her voice louder, and the fact that she lived means she will not soon be forgotten like most martyrs because she can still speak.

Re:Martyr is not preferable but it happens (5, Insightful)

girlintraining (1395911) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008533)

Had the Taliban successfully

You missed my point. When we're discussing a human rights award, it should be on the merits of the actions they took, not the consequences they suffered. It doesn't matter whether she took one bullet, or five hundred, or none at all, or whether she lived, or died. She stood up against an injustice and that is what is being rewarded... not that she couldn't get out of the way fast enough, or they were better armed, etc.

To say that taking a bullet somehow makes your action more noble than the guy sitting next to you doing the same thing, but not getting hit by the bullet, is a slap in the face to both people with fast reflexes, and every soldier who watched their buddy get turned into hamburger and thought: "Holy shit, that could have been me." The guy that got hamburgered signed up for the same thing as the guys that made it back. They had the same job. The same training. That's what makes is so damned hard to live with -- survivors guilt. There isn't a reason why it should have been him instead of you. Maybe some physics about artillery shells or some other abstract thing of no comfort... but the fact is, there wasn't a deliberate choice. Sometimes bad shit just happens to people. Getting fucked over doesn't earn you an award: Taking the risk of losing everything for a chance at doing good does.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007911)

but a fucking headshot beats hanging out in a Russian airport IMHO.

For some reason, I misread this as "hanging at a Russian airport". Neither felt preferable to me.

But I still think that Iceland should have granted him asylum. Just think of the possibilities. "Hi, I'm Edward Snowden. Welcome to my snow den."

Re:Comparative sacrifice (2)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008009)

Just think of the possibilities. "Hi, I'm Edward Snowden. Welcome to my snow den."

Yeah, but how you gonna get there if he's snowed in?

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

ultranova (717540) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008187)

But I still think that Iceland should have granted him asylum.

Iceland couldn't grant Snowden asylum. It's an island with no army and no neighbours to buffer it from US peacekeeping operation. Nor could it smuggle him out of country through a blockade.

France with its nuclear weapons might have worked.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007931)

But Russia is great for human rights http://www.rferl.org/content/russia-greenpeace-hrw-rights/25123426.html

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

intermodal (534361) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007953)

Agreed. I have been backing Malala for basically every humanitarian award since the incident, and despite Snowden's actions being incredibly important, Malala wins on such a fundamental level that nobody can possibly expect to compete with her on this if there is even a shred of honesty in this award. Seems so many awards have really turned into worthless tokens.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

ultranova (717540) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008029)

Both made very important statements we must pay attention to, but a fucking headshot beats hanging out in a Russian airport IMHO.

Both made important statements. However, that one managed to get away afterwards shouldn't weight against him.

Also, let's be honest here: that religion-dominated countries are horrible places to live is not news to anyone, nor is islamic countries being especially bad for women.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (4, Interesting)

Livius (318358) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008131)

Snowden was and continues to be at far higher risk of assassination than Malala. He's just been luckier.

So far.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

oodaloop (1229816) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008479)

Let's not forget that DoJ promised Snowden wouldn't be tortured if he were returned to the U.S. As in, it was on the table and everyone assumed that would happen. Getting shot in the head is the least of Snowden's concerns right now.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

Livius (318358) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008773)

Let's not forget that DoJ promised Snowden wouldn't be tortured if he were returned to the U.S. As in, it was on the table and everyone assumed that would happen.

Correct, everyone assumed that if Snowden were returned to the U.S. then his torture would happen.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008989)

As in, it was on the table and everyone assumed that would happen.

On what basis?

Re:Comparative sacrifice (3, Insightful)

umafuckit (2980809) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008631)

Snowden was and continues to be at far higher risk of assassination than Malala.

I don't think that's true. At this point Snowden being free is just embarrassing to the US. He's apparently already given the press everything he knows so killing him isn't going to improve anything from the NSA's perspective. On the other hand, if Snowden meets with a peculiar "accident" then the US government just comes out of it looking bad. Malala, on the other hand, is more than just an embarrassment to the extremists who shot her. She has chosen to remain vocal for her cause and therefore represents a continuing threat because she acts a nucleation site for the more liberal attitudes they are seeking to suppress.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (2, Informative)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008729)

Snowden was and continues to be at far higher risk of assassination than Malala. He's just been luckier.

So far.

Snowden is at no risk of assassination from the United States. He is at risk for arrest and prosecution for the crime of espionage. The most likely outcome of that would be a long sentence in prison. The only American citizens that the US has been targeting are those that have taken up arms against it such as al Qaida leader Anwar al-Awlaki [go.com] .

If you want to claim otherwise, I think you need to provide some evidence.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (5, Insightful)

Tom (822) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008617)

Malala gets this one hands-down.

If that happens, the spectacle has officially won. Someone saying something that's a brave thing to say and getting an unusually extreme reaction to it isn't even on the same scale as someone revealing a world-wide illegal conspiracy affecting pretty much everyone in the civilized world.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (0)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008889)

someone revealing a world-wide illegal conspiracy affecting pretty much everyone in the civilized world.

Note that the NSA's mandate is FOREIGN signals intelligence gathering. If the NSA listens in on every phone call in the world not involving a US citizen, then its actions are no more a "world-wide illegal conspiracy" than me asking my wife what's for dinner.

Now, listening in on US citizens is clearly outside their mandate, and thus illegal. The lying to Congress might be sufficient grounds to make it a conspiracy.

Even then, it's only an illegal conspiracy affecting most American citizens (arguably American residents, legal or otherwise)....

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

SuperBanana (662181) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008651)

Malala gets this one hands-down. Both made very important statements we must pay attention to, but a fucking headshot beats hanging out in a Russian airport IMHO.

I disagree, strongly. Have you actually listened to her speeches? Sample:

"If you want to see peace in Syria, Afghanistan and Pakistan; if you want to end the war; to fight against the war; then instead of sending guns send books,â

Riiiiiiiiiiight. The only reason she's so popular is because she's a harmless photo-op for politicians who are sitting around doing noting. While everyone is happy to talk about little girls not getting to go to school because the Taliban blew up their school, nobody seems interested in the widespread murders of civilian boys and men, or conscription.

Most people think there's this massive imbalance in literacy rates. It's about 9% [unesco.org] , between men and women.

That's unfortunate, but it hardly compares to the mass worldwide surveillance and conspiracies - or the courage required to acquire all those documents, leave your life behind, and kick a world power in the teeth.

Re:Comparative sacrifice (1)

icebike (68054) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008845)

Except she had no idea what she was doing (if anything) at the time she did it, and only became a "hero" by surviving, or being saved by British doctors.

Snowden, on the other hand knew he was putting himself in the bullseye for the head-shot, knew ahead of time that he had to give up
everything he had, and would very likely end up (best case) in prison, or worst-case dead of a head-shot "trying to escape".

Malala has changed nothing, for all her suffering. Islam is still Islam. Snowden has changed the world.

he should get (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007483)

a bullet in the brain

Re:he should get (-1, Troll)

i kan reed (749298) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007531)

Hey look, a fascist! In its natural habitat of anonymous internet posts.

you should get (2, Funny)

X0563511 (793323) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007649)

a bullet in the kneecap

Re:he should get (5, Insightful)

Thry (962012) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007791)

You know how you look down on those foreign types being all clueless and blindly believing in their corrupt governments and dear leaders? Well everyone's looking down on you for the same reasons :)

Re:he should get (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007829)

That's what ya get for bein' the messenger.

...lol (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007621)

The girl from Pakistan should get it waaaaaayyyyy before Snowden.

Snowden is nothing but traitorous scum

Re: ...lol (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007715)

The girl from Pakistan, unlike Snowden, has received zero money for her deeds.

Snowden was already making more money (0)

pupsocket (2853647) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007853)

and could be hauling in a whole lot more.

Re:...lol (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007717)

Classic case of projection.

Re:...lol (2)

Livius (318358) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008141)

She didn't really do much for human rights within the European Union. Snowden did.

ITS A TRAP!!!! (4, Funny)

cod3r_ (2031620) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007623)

Tell Snowden.. it's a freaking trap. CIA/NSA are going to get him on every awards program they can and when he shows up to accept they are going to snipe him down. I seen something like this on showtime.

Re:ITS A TRAP!!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007951)

Tell Snowden.. it's a freaking trap. CIA/NSA are going to get him on every awards program they can and when he shows up to accept they are going to snipe him down. I seen something like this on showtime.

And make a martyr out of him why?

Re:ITS A TRAP!!!! (4, Insightful)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008113)

Who cares if he's a martyr to some? There's no revolution coming out of it. What matters to the government is that his imprisonment shows future NSA contractors that they can't get away with leaking.

Re:ITS A TRAP!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008487)

Who cares if he's a martyr to some? There's no revolution coming out of it. What matters to the government is that his imprisonment shows future NSA contractors that they can't get away with leaking.

At some point there is a line where the general public will take back the reigns of government.

Public assignation at a human right award ceremony is if not across it considerably closer than anything the US has yet dared try.

Re:ITS A TRAP!!!! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45008031)

You know he could make a video for the award just like those big movie stars and get someone else to pick up the award.

Two-faced euro dirtbags (-1, Troll)

oldhack (1037484) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007641)

With one hand, they shove a head of state off their airspace for fear of carrying Snowden. With the other hand, they wage an empty sanctimonious PR campaign with an "award".

Re:Two-faced euro dirtbags (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007807)

You say fear of The Bully(TM) and still dare to do something to slap it in the face?

Some sense in the world (1, Troll)

chr1st1anSoldier (2598085) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007687)

Glad to see some sense in the world and this gentleman get some positive recognition for what he has done.

As it is said... (1, Insightful)

djupedal (584558) | 1 year,21 days | (#45007721)

Awards are for those that need them.

Pissing off the US Govt. may mean that Snowden is happy with that and anything else is just gravy. . .

Re:As it is said... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45008121)

Yes, but it *will* make it harder for the US to insist that he is a criminal and traitor rather than a leaker and human rights advocates. If the US manages to extradite, try, and give life imprisonment to the winner of the Sakharov and Nobel Peace Prizes, they pretty much destroy any credibility they have left when it comes to pointing out how other countries deal with their own political dissidents.

Re:As it is said... (2)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008153)

Awards are for those that need them.

Pissing off the US Govt. may mean that Snowden is happy with that

Yes, that was clearly Snowden's goal. Social change, government by consent, he didn't even think about that hippy-dippy stuff.

No award is going to protect that girl from more attacks by the Taliban. They don't give a damn about what the west thinks about her, if anything they'll see it as a challenge - once again the west trying to attack their religion. But if the award goes to Snowden it makes it that much harder for the US to put him in prison.

If the US tried to put Mandela in prison for being a terrorist, the way SA did before he received the award, the political blow-back would be enormous.

Re:As it is said... (1)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008915)

An award will make no difference whatsoever in prosecuting Snowden. The fact that the European Left considers him a hero is no more of a consideration in the US criminal justice system than the Soviet awards given to Kim Philby [telegraph.co.uk] would have been to the United Kingdom. Oddly enough, both ended up in Russia.

Re:As it is said... (1)

Jah-Wren Ryel (80510) | 1 year,20 days | (#45009129)

An award will make no difference whatsoever in prosecuting Snowden

So your position is that the award is of no value to any of the recipients. Thanks for sharing.

Both (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007845)

I think that both Malala and Edward deserve the award. Their actions have triggered significant positive change and they both knew that they were taking significant risks by doing what they did.

The NSA should award Snowden a prize (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,21 days | (#45007927)

Yes really. They should thank him!

Before Snowden, they were probably worrying on how they can explain away the fact that routinely violate the constitution and perjure themselves in front of the American public.

After Snowden they now have the proof points that that it is totally OK to continue to break the law and lie to anyone.

Snowden should get the Nobel Peace Prize. (2, Insightful)

jcr (53032) | 1 year,21 days | (#45008235)

Maybe that way the Nobel prize committee could undo some of the damage to the prize's reputation that they caused by giving it to shitheads like Arafat and Obama.

-jcr

Re:Snowden should get the Nobel Peace Prize. (5, Insightful)

JaredOfEuropa (526365) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008571)

Being a shithead does not and should not preclude you from getting the Peace Prize. Arafat arguably deserved to share it with Perez and Rabin for trying to work towards peace in the Middle East, putting aside politics, some of their own previously held beliefs as well as the express wishes of large parts of their constituents (who would prefer to rain fiery death upon the enemy). Even if nothing came of this in the end, this did merit a nomination and (I think) winning the Prize as well.

In contrast, Obama had done fuck all before receiving the Prize. His most relevant achievement at the time was to be Not Dubya. He also managed to be the first black president of the US, which is noteworthy but in itself hardly something to award a Peace Prize for

Re:Snowden should get the Nobel Peace Prize. (1)

TapeCutter (624760) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008883)

Damage to what reputation? - The peace prize has always been a political statement, need I remind you that Kissenger is on the list of recipients. Unlike the scientific prizes, peace prizes are more typically awarded for words than deeds.

Choices (1)

drgould (24404) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008447)

If I were Snowden, I think I'd prefer to have a guarantee of sanctuary somewhere in Europe than a piece of paper.

But that's just me.

Biz8atcH (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008475)

to use the GNAA

The politics of self worth may decide it (0)

Alain Williams (2972) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008483)

The Sakharov prize [wikipedia.org] is awarded (as far as I can see) by the European Parliament, a body that, in the UK at least, is seen as far away and irrelevant -- where it does decide things its decisions are seen as barmy. It seems to not have been doing much in standing up to the USA to protect European rights. The members of the parliament might see this as a chance to be seen to be an effective and robust body; but I suspect that they will be supine as usual.

I expect that the USA is using whatever influence it has with MEPs to prevent what would be an enormous embarassment.

this guy is a creep (-1)

tbonefrog (739501) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008489)

It may be true that Google autocorrects snowden' to 'snowman' as someone pointed out today.

Whether or not, check out the old movie 'The Falcon and The Snowman' about some goofy teems selling US secrets to the Soviets.

We all agree the KGB is a lot more honest and open that the NSA, or Google, Apple, or Microsoft for that matter. Yep,give the scumbag a medal!!!!!

Re:this guy is a creep (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,20 days | (#45008683)

You know your not going to receive a pay check today for that NSA troll post. Go home.

Asylum? (4, Insightful)

JimTheta (115513) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008507)

Boy, that will really send a message to the US.

You know what else would send a message? Asylum.

But if no one's feeling that bold, I'm sure the award will really pick Eddie's spirits up during the Russian winter.

Re:Asylum? (4, Insightful)

Livius (318358) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008815)

You know what else would send a message?

An EU member giving Snowden asylum and the CIA *still* finding a way to put him in Guantanamo or some other concentration camp. That's the reason it's better for Snowden not to even be offered asylum by any country too close to the Americans.

Both? (4, Interesting)

Phoenix666 (184391) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008837)

People have shared the Nobel Peace Prize and such before, why not award the prize to both Snowden and Malala this year? What they each did took a tremendous amount of courage and has made a powerful statement for human rights everywhere. And when I think about it, pissing off the Taliban the next village is a very scary and brave thing to do, but then so is pissing off the most powerful government on the planet which commands unlimited numbers of scary commandos, assassins, and gunmen who can kill you no matter where you go. They're both epic, epic heros for what they've done.

There's three nominees (0)

Alsee (515537) | 1 year,20 days | (#45008887)

Edward Snowden, the fugitive American former intelligence worker, has made the shortlist of three for the Sakharov prize, Europe's top human rights award. Mr Snowden was nominated by Green politicians in the European Parliament for leaking details of U.S. surveillance. Nominees also include Malala Yousafzai, the Pakistani teenager shot in the head for demanding education for girls.

I will tell you, it is three nominees. Snowden, Malala, and the - what's the third one there? Let's see. OK. Snowden, Malala , and...
The third nominee, Snowden, Malala, and, let's see. I can't. The third one, I can't. Sorry.
Oops.

But whoever it is ain't winning, because whatever they did was like totally lame compared to Snowden exposing U.S. government spying and Malala getting shot in the head for wanting girls for go to school.

-

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