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Another Science Facility Bites the Dust, Temporarily

timothy posted 1 year,16 days | from the spending-bills-must-originate-in-the-house dept.

Government 193

An anonymous reader writes "Today, the latest victim of the U.S. government shutdown, the National Radio Astronomy Observatory shut its doors and essentially mothballed all three of its radio telescope facilities: the Very Large Array or VLA (think Jodie Foster, Contact); the Green Bank Telescope, and the Very Long Baseline Array or VLBA. While the ALMA telescope is not yet affected (mainly due to it being run by a consortium of European, Japanese, Chilean and U.S. organizations), the U.S. funds for that will soon also dry up. Not only does this furlough most of the ~550 employees, it has also thrown a monkey wrench into many long-term carefully planned observations (to the tune of wasting half a million dollars and a year's worth of work). Emily Lakdawalla of the Planetary Society also has a commentary on the closure — and a plea to 'stop the madness.'"

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Aw (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042239)

Well shit. :\

Re:Aw (1, Insightful)

symbolset (646467) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042547)

In two weeks when we have defaulted on the national debt you will forget these trivialities. We will have bigger stuff to worry about, like how to feed your family when dollars are not worth the paper they are printed on.

Re:Aw (2)

Osgeld (1900440) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042619)

they are not worth the paper they are printed on 10 years ago

Re:Aw (2)

symbolset (646467) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042719)

This is true, but at least back then we let people pretend they were worth something. Once we default, that game is over.

Re:Aw (2)

philip.paradis (2580427) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042649)

This is why I place high value on firearms, ammunition, and basic supplies. I'm not exactly a "prepper" but I'm certainly not a fool, either. Bad times can happen any time, and people who understand how to find food and water stand a better chance of dealing with circumstances than those who don't.

I have two daughters, a son on the way, and barring mass extinction of wildlife I'll be able to feed the family. The other unfortunate complications of a true economic collapse are factors I'd rather not consider in depth unless I have to.

Re:Aw (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042717)

You're right on the money, or gun.. Not sure how that works. Anyhow, you don't have to be a "prepper" to understand what might happen any day now... Life can take a quick turn into disaster and if there's any hint that it's going to happen it's likely within the next 3-years. Whether it's a civil revolution or a takeover, you have to be armed one way or another. Plus, it doesn't hurt to be prepared in case some poor person comes in and tries to rob you at gunpoint. It may end up like a mexican standoff but at least it's better than being defenseless and dying without trying. I'm not a prepper either but I have weapons, ammo, and preparations for 4 people for medical, and if we need to travel long distances. This was mainly created in case of a tornado, earthquake or hurricane though and I advise everyone to at least have some kind of safety prepareness kit of some sort. PS. In case of Zombies, have a chainsaw and a sawed off shotgun ready at your disposal. The hipster crowd is growing rapidly and there's no telling when they will want batteries for their ipod if SHTF.

Re:Aw (1)

symbolset (646467) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042767)

In these times it is best not to broadcast that you have guns and ammunition, even though most folks do.

Re:Aw (1)

philip.paradis (2580427) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042887)

I'm happy to broadcast it, despite the risks associated with such a broadcast. I'll gladly support anyone subjected to illegal seizure by any means necessary, and for those who would attempt an amateur grab: try it.

Yet when it comes to a register (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043009)

Or when someone created a crowdsourced app to let people know who has a gun and who hasn't, you were there being pissed off at this risk to your safety...

Re:Aw (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043111)

-1 internet tough guy

Re: Aw (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043061)

In two weeks, when another little puff of smoke occurs, the essential bond interst payments will be made. And hundreds and thousands of worthless fuck federal employees won't be able to pay their cable bills. Starbucks might have to lay off some baristas at their DC locations.

Re: Aw (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043299)

This is the result of decades of excessive borrrowing and entitlement promises taking precedence over science. Big liberalism fail.

Not all parts of your lovely govt are shut down (2)

boorack (1345877) | 1 year,16 days | (#45043329)

Despite shutdown US decided to extend military training program for syrian terrorists (err ... "rebels") stating that only "moderate rebels" are being trained that is propably yet another of its never ending stream of lies. FOMC is still peddling cheap money to stock markets, so all those Wall Street parasites calling themselves "investors" receive their checks. It's funny as they're just recipients of yet another government giveaway, albeit conceived a noth as instead of directly receiving government money, they're "earning" it from financial markets massively pumped by government via FOMC and similiar mechanisms. Call it socialism for rich people.

In short, two most important functions of US government today - that is funding wars and Wall Street bankers - are alive and kicking.

What's out there? (2)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042243)

Makes you wonder what we'll miss in the night sky. If I were an alien that read slashdot, I would know that the time to strike us now!

Re:What's out there? (4, Funny)

Mitchell314 (1576581) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042297)

If an alien were to judge us based on slashdot, they'd strike immediately no matter what. :P

Re: What's out there? (5, Funny)

allan marcus (3380849) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042355)

If aliens read slash dot they would skip earth and move on to find intelligent life! :-)

Re:What's out there? (5, Funny)

Bite The Pillow (3087109) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042751)

They would strike, then strike again 12 hours later, then spend the rest of the millennium bickering about arcana while one idiot bastard alien kept sending messages saying "Hi I'm from earf, you missed one," and "Commander Xeebo is a diddlepeen who eats natalie portman for frosty piss."

Oh sorry, that's what would happen if slashdot attacked aliens.

Re:What's out there? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043075)

"They would strike, then ..."

They'd post a 'first strike' message.

Re:What's out there? (1)

VortexCortex (1117377) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042909)

If an alien were to judge us based on slashdot, they'd strike immediately no matter what. :P

"Look at these humans! They're all fatted up and complacent!"

Well done.

"Well done?"

Yes, leave none rare. Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

Re:What's out there? (2)

houstonbofh (602064) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042353)

"That's no moon..."

many gov sites down but (2, Insightful)

shirosenshi (3362303) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042261)

They have closed many national parks and government websites, but The Healthcare Insurance Market Place is open. Are not 'selective shutdowns' illegal for political gain? U.S. Pres acting like a dictator. Also noticed he shutting down private businesses. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/04/park-rangers-guard-inn-parking-lot-from-guests-during-shutdown/ [theblaze.com]

Re:many gov sites down but (4, Insightful)

__Paul__ (1570) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042285)

You conveniently forgot to mention that the military is still being paid.

You could save a fortune if you defunded them and brought them all home.

Re:many gov sites down but (2)

houstonbofh (602064) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042365)

Kinda... Base pay. But hazzard pay, and many other bonuses that can be up to half the paycheck are still out. And base comasaries are closing as well.

Re:many gov sites down but (4, Informative)

MouseTheLuckyDog (2752443) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042445)

The military is still being paid, but they are no longer sending feeds of sporting events ( including the NFL ) to the soldiers.
They are however, keeping Camp David and military golf courses open ( which he plays a lot on ).

On other notes. Republicans in the House passed a resolution to keep funding NIH research ( into things like childrens cancer ), but a party line vote in the Senate killed it. They also "shutdown" the WWII monument. This despite the fact that it remained open during other shutdowns. This despite the fact that it is open 24/7 but only manned during working hours. Veterans arriving found the monument blocked off by "Barry-cades". They were not to be stopped and simply went around. So to save the money for the shutdown the adminstration hired people to wire the Barry-cades together.

Oh and the White House chefs are considered essential. They have not been furloughed. Guess they are needed to bake the cakes.

Re:many gov sites down but (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042559)

That is some petty, small-minded thinking. Of course the Republicans are going to push for gradually refunding the government in a series of small bills, it alleviates public pressure on the shutdown. If they had their way the shutdown would only pertain to Obamacare.

So they put forth these bills that they know won't pass so they can blame the Democrats on keeping things closed. It riles up their base of narrow-minded twats who get 90% of their daily news intake from ultra-conservative loudmouths on talk radio and Drudge Report.

But that talk radio will conveniently omit the fact:

1) The bill is law. The debate is settled. It's been signed into law. The court has ruled. The president has been re-elected, he has been endorsed by the majority of voting people to be on the right track.
2) Conservative lawmakers planned on using "the power of the purse" to get their way -- i.e. shut down government.
3) The House is chosing to abide by the "Hastert Rule" and impeding a vote on the senate's version of the bill. That bill would pass, but unless there is a "majority of the majority" likely to vote on the bill the bill will not come to a vote. This means the Republican Party, already fracturing from their reeling defeats in previous elections, is hostage to the Tea Party, a party that holds views dramatically right of most people.

Re:many gov sites down but (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042601)

We know the law is unconstitutional because the penalty for not buying insurance got ruled a tax and all taxes have to originate in the house. The only question is why the GOP has not played this card.

Re:many gov sites down but (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042699)

The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that the Affordable Care Act is constitutional. There's nowhere to go after the Supreme Court.

You're saying that they ruled it a "tax". That's not their ruling. If they ruled that way, that would imply they could make a law constitutional, but by ruling in such a way, the law is then unconstitutional. They cannot make up a paradox like that, that's not how the court works. Especially not the 9 justices of the Supreme Court.

Congress passed it. The president signed it. It went before the Supreme Court and passed judicial review. It's the law, designed and built by democracy. The Republican party should respect that.

Re:many gov sites down but (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042779)

Like so many, they view democracy as getting what they want, when they want it, and how they like it. Not getting what they want is damned commies interfering.

Re:many gov sites down but (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042991)

They also "shutdown" the WWII monument. This despite the fact that it remained open during other shutdowns. This despite the fact that it is open 24/7 but only manned during working hours. Veterans arriving found the monument blocked off by "Barry-cades". They were not to be stopped and simply went around. So to save the money for the shutdown the adminstration hired people to wire the Barry-cades together.

The Democrats and Barack Obama did not personally call the Parks department to "shutdown" particular monuments if that's what you are implying. I'm pretty sure the Parks department has a detailed plan for the shutdown that didn't involve the President or the Senate. It doesn't have to make sense to you and me but that's their call as the Parks department is in charge.

What you have really is that the Republicans want to shut everything down but don't want the political blame for shutting things down.

ONLY because... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042695)

The Republicans shamed him into doing it by sending him a stand-alone "fund the troops" bill (which he signed) even though he insists he cannot and will not sign such bills as a matter of principle... the apparent principle being that he will keep everything defunded that hurts his opponents but will happily allow funding to flow to anything so politically dangerous that it might burn him

Re:many gov sites down but (1)

cyberjock1980 (1131059) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042773)

Actually, the cost of bringing them all home would be VERY expensive. It cost money to get them there, and it costs money to bring them home. But, if you bring them home for long enough then you might save money in the long term. But since the military is paid salary and not hourly, I'm betting the cost savings would take years to reap.

And if you think you'll bring them home "during the shutdown" I can guarantee that you'll definitely be spending more money in the long run. But I don't think this was your intention based on your comment.

But ignoring these fact, if you chose to stop paying the military you'd have serious problems on your hands. Do you know what happens when the people holding the guns defending you do when you stop paying them? Well, let's just say "you don't want to find out". And the reality of it is that my military brothers and sisters would have serious problems because they can't expect to go get a temporary job while the wait out the shutdown nor do they have large sums of money to sit at home and still pay their bills.

I remember when Sept 11th happened and all sorts of government buildings were closed there was a lot of rumors that the military members might not get paid on time. Lucky for us many banks like Navy Federal Credit Union agreed they'd deposit our normal paycheck size into our accounts even if we didn't get paid. Many apartment complex came out and said that if we didn't get paid they wouldn't charge late fees if we didn't have our rent checks on time. Fortunately we did get paid on time and didn't have to worry about such things.

The last thing us military people needed to worry about when we were suddenly forced to go to sea unexpected(I was in the Navy) was to worry about if our family was home starving with no money and I was in the middle of the ocean unable to contact them to find out if they were even alive. Remember, the safest place for a ship is at sea. So guess where all the ships went when Sept 11th happened? That's right, to sea. Unfortunately many of us had families that were in panic over the Sept 11th attacks, and all that any of us knew was that we were going to sea for an indeterminate period of time, might or might not get paid on time, and no clue if we were going to war immediately or not.

So please think about the people defending your right to comment on this website before you start talking about not paying them. Because it stinks of shit when people like you talk out of your mouth with such rubbish. They didn't want the shutdown. And the very people that should be telling our Congress and President to go to hell when they do stupid things like this and voting them out are the same people that should be responsible for whatever consequences(good or bad) that come from not acting. So I don't feel too bad when the Grand Canyon, the WWII memorial, and the Statue of LIberty close. We wanted this. We asked for it by voting in these idiots. And by "We" that just means the majority. For the rest of us that didn't vote in these clowns, we should have worked harder to keep the clowns out of office.

So everyone enjoy the spoils from voting in these incompetent losers. You wanted it and you got it. And the worse you want it, the worse you'll get it. I know next election I'll be trying to get some fresh air in there.

Re:many gov sites down but (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042293)

They have more guns than you do. So no, it's not illegal.

Re:many gov sites down but (1)

symbolset (646467) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042569)

Actually, the US military does not have more guns than the US citizenry. In the US guns outnumber people to operate them.

Re:many gov sites down but (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042333)

It isn't a selective shutdown for political gain, it's how the Affordable Care Act is funded by law. The majority of the ACA is mandatory funding, not discretionary...which makes the Republican's government shutdown all the more moronic.

Re:many gov sites down but (2, Informative)

sumdumass (711423) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042377)

The majority of the ACA is mandatory funding, not discretionary...which makes the Republican's government shutdown all the more moronic.

not if you paid attention to what they want to do. Only portions of the aca is mandatory and they tried to remove the mandatory itself. Now they just want to remove thr medical device tax which several democrats agree with doing, remove the subsidy scheme oboma designrf for congress, and either delay the personal mandate as long as big business is exempt or remove the exemption.

Re:many gov sites down but (2, Insightful)

dbIII (701233) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042439)

What they want doesn't matter as much as the way it's being done. This shutdown is like taking a thermonuclear device to a ping pong match. They are damaging the US economy for what, a minor tweak in health insurance? This sort of crap has to be stopped before it becomes the default option to repeal laws.

I this keeps on going any bets as to when Cruz gets a medal from Putin and Xi?

Re:many gov sites down but (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | 1 year,16 days | (#45043181)

You're right. "What they want doesn't matter." All that matters is: "Icky, icky poo poo! Republicans! Yuk!"

Putin is about to get a Nobel Prize, to match Obama's. They should dress as twins, though it's obvious who would be the bossy twin.

Re:many gov sites down but (1)

dbIII (701233) | 1 year,16 days | (#45043233)

Republicans are not the problem, it's the hatching of the cuckoos eggs laid inside that bunch that are the problem. The health care proposal is trivial compared with what Nixon was going with yet these weirdos are doing so much damage in an attempt to stop it. They are prepared to bankrupt America just to stop less than 1% of the population from getting health insurance - how petty is that? The only people that will not be hurt much by it are the 1% at the other end.

Re:many gov sites down but (1)

Swave An deBwoner (907414) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042563)

The "Pisga Inn" is a privately operated concession in a building owned and on land leased from the federal government.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/pisgah-inn-closes-because-government-shutdown/nbFm2/ [wsoctv.com]

That I think implies that the site is protected by federal police, and in light of the widespread shutdown it seems plausible that they felt it couldn't be properly supervised. They may have their hands full as it is.

Don't worry, it's all a scam! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042275)

By Obama, see he doesn't have to shut anything down, and if he kept things open the Republicans would never try to impeach him for violating the law since they're heavily in favor of people in authority using their better judgment and not doing things just because the law says so, which is why they supported him standing on principal against DoMA.

Re:Don't worry, it's all a scam! (0, Troll)

sumdumass (711423) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042401)

Well, obama could always take the easier way out and have the democrates in the senate take up the individual funding bills the house had passed instead of demanding all or nothing.

But i guess the news didn't report a parks officer saying he got orders to make the shutdown as painful as possible or a top whitehouse official say they were fine with the shutdown because they were winning if obama actually cared about it.

Re:Don't worry, it's all a scam! (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042521)

But i guess the news didn't report a parks officer saying he got orders to make the shutdown as painful as possible or a top whitehouse official say they were fine with the shutdown because they were winning if obama actually cared about it.

With some thorough research, I have discovered that yes, the news DIDN'T report that, only fundamentalist blogs whose next story was shape shifting reptilians creating the Obamacare Death Panels were reporting anything of the sort.

that's Obama's choice (2, Insightful)

stenvar (2789879) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042307)

Obama is choosing what to close and what not to close. Closing these facilities, national parks, monuments, etc. is pure politics on his part. There are plenty of other things he could cut, and he could have cut a long time ago.

Re:that's Obama's choice (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042339)

Right. Because he was the one who sets the budget. The president can recommend a budget, but if you hadn't noticed there is a bit of opposition.

And the whole "We'll fund a piece at a time, starting with the popular things" is bullshit. How would you feel if your employer suddenly decided that making payroll wasn't acceptable, but he'll pay Janice two offices down, and Bob in accounting. And then maybe he'll decide to pay his administrative assistant. After that...hmm, you were a day late getting in that report. He doesn't want to pay you, even if you are an employee.

Re:that's Obama's choice (1)

Pino Grigio (2232472) | 1 year,16 days | (#45043313)

If my employer ran a deficit for 25 years we'd all have been fired years ago.

Re:that's Obama's choice (0, Flamebait)

kenwd0elq (985465) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042341)

It's quite simple; Obama wants to WASTE as much money as he can, to teach all of us rebellious scum the penalty for "lese majeste". It is not, quite yet, legal for him to have us drawn and quartered for daring to question the Emperor, but he's working on it.

The National Park Service alone is running up enormous bills just for the rental of his Barry-cades that they're using to block access to open fields. Or to privately owned restaurants. The NPS Barry-caded the turn-around circle outside of Mount Vernon. (They tried to close Mount Vernon itself, but the government doesn't own that!) They're Barry-cading "scenic lookouts" in the Blue Ridge mountains. I'm sure the NPS has no use whatsoever for the money that the Cliff House in San Francisco pays for rent....

It's simple ..... no, it's quite a COMPLEX case of spite and hate for all Americans. If I wasn't quite certain that he'd been born in Hawaii, I might start believing the Birther claims that he was born elsewhere!

My question is, if Obamacare survives and if there's a miracle and it actually works, what prevents the NEXT Emperor-Wannabe from closing all the hospitals during the next budget crisis?

Re:that's Obama's choice (3, Informative)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042373)

You have absolutely no idea what happens when a budget doesn't get approved in time, do you? Here's some education for you: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/09/30/absolutely-everything-you-need-to-know-about-how-the-government-shutdown-will-work/ [washingtonpost.com]

Re:that's Obama's choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042415)

A budget hasn't been approved in time for the past few years.

CRs are not budgets. Don't let anyone ever tell you differently. "Lets assume the next three months are identical to the last three" is not a budget.

Re:that's Obama's choice (-1, Troll)

sumdumass (711423) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042425)

It is interesting, i have read from several places that clinton and reagan kept the parks open during their shutdowns. I haven,t had the chance to confirm it ss i'm working from my phone right now, but that would suggest they both were better presidentd then obama.

Re:that's Obama's choice (2, Informative)

kenwd0elq (985465) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042465)

I was going to respond "President Obama has NEVER signed a budget", but other people have already made the point for me. The object of "cut spending" would suggest that the NPS should lock the gates and go home. But that's not what they're doing - they are (under Presidential direction!) doing ANYTHING THEY CAN to spite the American people, in an attempt to prod the populace into demanding quick action. When Nixon did that, few reporters called him on it. Now, the entire "press" is Obama supporters and will do or say anything to support "The One". But with this internet thingie and cell phones and Twitter, the "media" has lost their exclusive control of the "news".

And Obama's warnings of doom about the debt ceiling and our impending default - that isn't so clear, either. The Treasury is getting plenty of money, MORE than enough to pay all the debts that are due; bond payments and the like. The problem is that they're spending it even FASTER. So when we ram into the debt ceiling at Mach 3, somebody at the Fed will need to make a choice - make the bond payments and screw all the welfare recipients, pensioners, Michelle's vacation partners and Federal employees and NOT default, or default and give the money to other people. Or, keep borrowing and break the debt ceiling.

Defaulting or breaking the debt ceiling would both be impeachable offenses, but I suspect that he'd rather default and collapse the economy EVEN FASTER than he has been doing for the past 4 years.

I'm lucky; I'm old and probably won't need to worry about surviving the civil war that is coming. Because it IS coming.

Oh, one other tidbit; the Washington Post is ENTIRELY in Obama's pocket. He probably wrote that piece. It doesn't enhance your credibility to be quoting it.

Re:that's Obama's choice (1, Troll)

Bite The Pillow (3087109) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042775)

they are (under Presidential direction!) doing ANYTHING THEY CAN to spite the American people

Source?

I'm old and probably won't need to worry about surviving the civil war that is coming.

Oh, nevermind. You really should take a break from your normal programming from time to time. I would have simply discounted you, but I've seen several posts mentioning the intentional painfulness with no corroboration outside the usual complete nutters.

Defaulting or breaking the debt ceiling would both be impeachable offenses

You are either the third most dedicated troll I have seen, or incredibly biased towards preconceived notions to the point that I would suggest considering if you have ever been brainwashed. Seriously. And I will be looking for a source, preferably from a place that doesn't mention Alex Jones, lizard people, the Illuminati, or Skull and Bones.

Re:that's Obama's choice (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | 1 year,16 days | (#45043195)

And you should stop biting the pillow. Or is that how you cope when Rachel Maddog comes at you wearing a strapon?

Re:that's Obama's choice (1, Insightful)

stenvar (2789879) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042501)

This is not about approving budgets because there are no budgets. Obama has failed to submit them, Congress has failed to pass them. This is about Obama demanding money willy-nilly and Congress refusing to pay it for equally chaotic reasons.

Re:that's Obama's choice (2)

kenwd0elq (985465) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042639)

Budgets..... Aye, THERE'S the rub. By the Constitution, all bills appropriating money from the treasury of the United States MUST originate in the House. The Senate can propose amendments, which then go back to the House for their approval. The President is, officially, "out of the loop" for budgets.

In reality, most presidents in the last 100 years have proposed their own budgets, and an obliging Representative then introduces "his" budget, and then it's off to the races. In this case, Obama has never proposed a budget, the Dem house didn't bother, and Harry Reid has blocked any GOP-submitted budget since the Dems lost the House in 2010.

That's how Obamacare got so badly screwed up to begin with. The House proposed the original version of Obamacare, larded up with every leftists' wildest dreams; the Senate was supposed to revise it to make it work. Then Teddy Kennedy went to his eternal reward, Scott Brown was elected to the Senate, and the Dems lost their filibuster-proof majority - and their only option was either to pass the House bill (which EVERYBODY KNEW WAS CRAP) without changes, or watch the Republican minority filibuster their changes to death. They passed it, with Nancy Pelosi's timeless line "You'll have to pass the bill to see what's in it!".

Now we're seeing, and a LOT of people are having buyers remorse.

Re:that's Obama's choice (4, Interesting)

vux984 (928602) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042977)

Now we're seeing, and a LOT of people are having buyers remorse.

Majority of the country favors obamacare. The majority of the country that republicans like to say support getting rid of it are split - 2/3rds actually think it goes too far... 1/3 doesn't think it goes far enough. that 1/3rd of so called group 'against the bill' doesn't want the act repealed ... they wanted it expanded. Couple that with nearly 50% that identify as supporting the bill and you have a clear majority.

So I don't really see buyers remorse yet, what I see is 40 odd republican tea party candidates from election proof gerrymandered disctricts that literally cannot lose no matter how braindead they act have decided to hold the entire country hostage.

As an aside, Bill O'Reilly while a guest on the daily show suggested, really, the most sane compromises I've heard.

The US government is so absurdly screwed up -- giving state governers the electoral powers they have was idiotic. All aspects of elections should be run by completely non-partisan groups with no interfering with the state or federal political parties. From identifying districts to running the election itself.

That same episode of the daily show had another good factoid -- 90% incumbency rate, 10% approval rate. It's broken.

Re:that's Obama's choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042829)

Obama has failed to submit them, ...

That's just bullshit. The Obama administration has submitted budgets albeit one was a bit late. DFW

Re:that's Obama's choice (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042545)

if Obamacare survives and if there's a miracle and it actually works, what prevents the NEXT Emperor-Wannabe from closing all the hospitals during the next budget crisis?

Watch Harry Reid [youtube.com] on CNN. When asked why he won't fund the NIH to help children with cancer he said "Why whould we want to do that?". This is the guy making laws about your government run healthcare, and then he insults the reporter for daring to even ask the question.

Re:that's Obama's choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042625)

hm one child sob story to jerk tears vs thousands of workers booted out of their jobs, which is the bigger immediate crisis

Re:that's Obama's choice (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042561)

I disagree with the mods. The parent isn't flamebait, it's unbridled idiocy.

Re:that's Obama's choice (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042567)

Barry-caded, haha. Next thing you know, the evil dictator for life will be putting Barry-cuda in all of our drinking water. He'll outlaw Straw-Barry milkshakes, and Barry-cade your local breakfast aisle at the grocery so you can't buy your Boo-Barry Crunch cereal.

I wouldn't be surprised if all the Barrs in the national parks were being outfitted with Obama masks and provoked into killing intruders. Next he'll repeal our right to Barr arms right before the miliBarry takeover!

Re:that's Obama's choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043065)

Barry, is that you?

Re:that's Obama's choice (1)

hrvatska (790627) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042357)

Obama is choosing what to close and what not to close. Closing these facilities, national parks, monuments, etc. is pure politics on his part. There are plenty of other things he could cut, and he could have cut a long time ago.

Without funding from a continuing resolution, how would Obama keep these facilities, national parks, monuments, etc. funded and running?

Re:that's Obama's choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042473)

A bill is gathering dust in the senate to open them back up right now. Along with Fema, WIC, and a myriad of other things. Pay better attention. A CR is not a budget it is a hack, piecemeal funding also is not a budget it is a hack, what the hell is the difference? I'll tell you what, both sides are wanting to punish the other, with the donkey side thinking they can get away with doing nothing because they believe they have the public support to do so, and that the elephant side will take all the blame. That to me is sickening, they are saying, "we will let people suffer because it isn't going to stick to us." Four complete bills are sitting on a senate table to open the government in its entireaty, and a stack of bills turning on the lights one at a time is accumulating. All the donkeys want to talk about is the one bill where they say, "my way or the highway." Keep supporting that, I hope you sleep well at night.

Re:that's Obama's choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042525)

Impotent republican anger is always so amusing!

Re:that's Obama's choice (2)

stenvar (2789879) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042507)

(1) By avoiding the problem altogether and negotiating with Republicans well ahead of time.

(2) By setting different priorities; after all, most federal employees are still working, he simply sent those home that had the biggest PR impact.

Re:that's Obama's choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042999)

Didn't someone above suggest that you guys are

(1) Lying through your teeth.

(2) Listening only to those newscasts that provide the most support to your beliefs?

Re:that's Obama's choice (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042391)

It's my understanding that it's not someone's choice what closes and what doesn't, it's determined by essential vs nonessential services. I love the national parks, but I'd put them firmly under nonessential too.

Re:that's Obama's choice (1, Informative)

sumdumass (711423) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042437)

Imagine an open field with rocks and trees. Now imagine putting up baracades and rangers to guard them. Some have edtimated that it costs more to close them then it did to operate. They are even paying overtime to sit rangers at the entrances of budinesses that get no federal funding at all in order to close them down only because they lease land from the parks or service patrons of the parks.

Imagine the parks or museums were left open (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043069)

But unattended.

Homeless people, drunks, addicts and hippies will be able to move in because there's nobody to clear them out.

Meanwhile, everyone there is walking on the grass, throwing rubbish about and vandalising stuff.

And because there's nobody paid to clean up or look after the place, it gets worse and worse.

Imagine the vet memorial were left open. Lots of antiques to nick in there. Easy money. Nobody looking after the place. Nice target.

And then when everything is funded again, you need extra money to pay to repair the damage.

Some dumbass you are!

Re:that's Obama's choice (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | 1 year,16 days | (#45043185)

putting up baracades

Fences made of carnivorous fish?

budinesses

Commercial enterprises run by friends? Or ones that sell shit beer?

Re:that's Obama's choice (1)

symbolset (646467) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042585)

If this plays out like I think it will, you will devoutly wish for a day when the Affordable Care Act, Obama, or partisan politics was something you might be concerned about. We are headed for a time when such concerns were the good old days.

Revenue (1)

mfwitten (1906728) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042369)

Maybe you should find some less fickle patrons.

America Isn't Interested (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042393)

"People, we're in danger of losing our funding. America isn't interested in space exploration anymore."

I remember working at the VLA (3, Interesting)

varmfskii (2910763) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042399)

In the early 90s and losing my job due to lost funding.

Re:I remember working at the VLA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042603)

They "lost" lots of funding in Iraq and nobody seemed to lose their job. Amusing how it works huh?

Re:I remember working at the VLA (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042883)

Radio Telescopes dont kill people that easily(I suppose if you would fling one fast enough it could kill someone, or maybe topple it) where as the militairy does, killing is a vital part of the US economy!

OMG Perfect time for Alien invasion (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042449)

I'm scared!

I need to start writing a book: (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042461)

I need to start writing a book. Here's the title:
American Politics
- Democracy Inaction ...thanks, I'll be here all week! Remember to tip your servers!
Try the veal!

Selectivity (2)

Optimal Cynic (2886377) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042511)

They should include legislative salaries in the shutdown, that would encourage them. Put in a constitutional amendment - when a budget for the United States is not in effect, Congressional representatives and senators shall not be paid.

Re:Selectivity (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042647)

Great idea! Let's make them completely dependent on donations from concerned entities for their income, that'll improve their decisions for the rest of us.

Re:Selectivity (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042729)

They could be paid millions by tax payers each year and they would still accept bribes because of their nature. Do you really think that paying them makes a difference in America? It might make a difference in another country but the US is very, very corrupt to the core. The problem is that we have politicians in office, and not specialists. They know nothing except how to pass a bill here and there. They do each have a team of advisers however, but......

Re:Selectivity (2)

artor3 (1344997) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042685)

That gets brought up every time, and it's a terrible idea. It would feel good, sure, but you gotta remember that most Congressmen are already filthy rich.

Emphasis on most. Some of them aren't, and they would be forced to cave in order to afford their rent. This country is enough of a plutocracy as it is. We'd best not give the rich yet another tool to extract concessions from the people.

Re:Selectivity (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043059)

Are there any Congressmen who are actually so poor as to be forced to rent?

Re:Selectivity (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043183)

It's actually an excellent idea. Except that at the same time that they cease to get paid, they should be put up for re-election.

Re:Selectivity (1)

dkf (304284) | 1 year,16 days | (#45042895)

They should include legislative salaries in the shutdown, that would encourage them. Put in a constitutional amendment - when a budget for the United States is not in effect, Congressional representatives and senators shall not be paid.

I'd rather defund the salaries of congressional security workers. Let legislators continue, but let them do so while worrying about what some crazy with a gun might do.

Re:Selectivity (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042971)

Are you only brave enough to suggest that while the NSA is asleep?

Supernova (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042517)

What happens if there is another 1987A like supernova during the shutdown?

One could almost see mobs of scientists wielding bolt cutters forcing their way back into the office.

Re: Supernova (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042595)

Fortunately, there are observatories in other countries not being torn apart by incompetent, know-nothing teabaggers who can pick up the slack.

Re: Supernova (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043025)

Are the Democrat Senators teabagging interns in the cloakroom again? Well! That's ok. Nothing wrong with that!

We're being fucked and most don't even care (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042565)

BIOS/hardware is being attacked with 0days.

The anti-virus companies don't give a shit about it.

Avoid alpha/beta versions of software - especially proprietary test suites where version changes are fluid and exploits can be delivered between versions quickly without much oversight.

Washington Monument Syndrome (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042643)

When nasty politicians want more money and get mad at the taxpayers for not just handing it over, they punish the voters by closing the things that hurt the voters most rather than the things the voters dislike and would want shut down. This used to be seen most-often in Washington DC with the closure of the Washington Monument (which costs nearly nothing to keep open). State governments love to close schools and local governments love to lay-off police and fire fighters... this is all an old and very petulant political act. In point of fact, the Constitution REQUIRES presidents to go ask congress for the money they want to spend and our founders wrote that control of the nation's purse was one of the checks the House has over the President. There's nothing unusual here EXCEPT that Obama thinks the Constitution does not apply to him and he is counting on the mainstream press to propagandize in his favor and his dumb supporters to ignore reality. The last proposal the House Republicans offered funded EVERYTHING including "Obamacare" but insisted that the congress and the whitehouse live under the same rules as the taxpayers... Harry Reid (Democrat Senate Majority Leader) and the President refused. They shut everything down and they can re-open it all any time they wish by just signing into the idea that they are subject to the same laws as the people

The Obama administration has taken Washington Monument Syndrome to a historic new high by paying government workers to go put up barricades around many facilities (not just the WWII memorial) that are not costing the government anything to operate and are not actually "closable"... for example by trying to have federal workers close STATE parks in Wisconsin! This is the most "wired" micro-targeting admin ever and they are trying to make all sectors HURT to get them to pressure their members of Congress.

Remember the tea party dont want any of these. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042653)

To exist These are the things they are happy to chop out of government and lots lots more.
Understand what you vote for.

citizenry and government go hand in hand... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042661)

This is what happens when people vote with their arshole. The american people get the government they deserve, and right now they have decided to give the keys of the kingdom to a bunch of science hating, bible thumper, retarded tea baggers republicans.
Maybe the few intelligent republicans still in Congress should fork the party. Call it Republican 2.0. Otherwise the US of A will be the laughing stock of the world for decades to come (ot at least until the next world war).

Re:citizenry and government go hand in hand... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043207)

they have decided to give the keys of the kingdom to a bunch of science hating, bible thumper, retarded tea baggers republicans.

At least they're not musserlims and commyernusts or tarrusts.

Re:citizenry and government go hand in hand... (1)

Bing Tsher E (943915) | 1 year,16 days | (#45043209)

This is what happens when one party passes a law that they otherwise wouldn't be able to pass, using a gimmick called 'Reconciliation.'

And you wonder why? (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042697)

and China is building the world biggest.....

The Five hundred meter Aperture Spherical Telescope (FAST) is a radio telescope under construction located in a natural basin (),[1] in Pingtang County, Guizhou Province, southwest China.[2] As of June 2011 construction should be complete by September 2016.[3] It will be the world's largest and most sensitive radio telescope and three times more sensitive than the Arecibo Observatory.[4] It will have a cost of 700 million yuan.[5]

-Source Wikipedia-

At last the libertarian dream is upon us! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45042807)

Vote tea party to make this permanent!

Re: At last the libertarian dream is upon us! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043037)

Be careful. In your joyful exuberance you'll spray jism down your leg and stain your shoes.

Phew - the MIC is still fine (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,16 days | (#45043143)

Our tax dollars are being spent wisely.

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