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Sure. (0)

Bongo (13261) | about 10 months ago | (#45119451)

Because nobody will every try to make another new kind of USB connector.

Apple's has different requirements (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119701)

Only Apple fanbois want a connector that can double as a butt-plug

That's shocking (4, Funny)

Chrisq (894406) | about 10 months ago | (#45119709)

Only Apple fanbois want a connector that can double as a butt-plug

A charging cable combined with a butt-plug! That's shocking!

Oh, I totally agree... (5, Insightful)

jawtheshark (198669) | about 10 months ago | (#45119453)

Oh, I totally agree... With the slight difference that I actually think that the Lightning connector is actually better design. It's small and orientation less and rather robust. Micro-USB, while ubiquitous, is rather fragile and has orientation. It'd rather see all phone manufacturers switch to the Lightning connector instead. I know this won't happen, especially since the EU mandates Micro-USB.

Oh, and before you accuse me of being an Apple fanboy. I'm still on a non-Lightning iPhone and if it wasn't my employer who paid for my phone, I wouldn't even have a smartphone.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (5, Informative)

LordLucless (582312) | about 10 months ago | (#45119517)

I know this won't happen, especially since the EU mandates Micro-USB.

And even more especially because Apple has patented aspects of the Lightning connector, and have no intentions of sharing.

Re: Oh, I totally agree... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119545)

Some company owns the patent on Micro USB too. Just because it's a standard doesn't mean it's free or open source.

Re: Oh, I totally agree... (5, Insightful)

neonsignal (890658) | about 10 months ago | (#45119683)

The difference being that Apple makes it very difficult for third party manufacturers, while the USB consortium are keen to get broad industry support. For Apple the patent seems to be used to exclude competition, while the USB patent holders and USB manufacturers are engaged in reciprocal and royalty-free licensing arrangements.

From a libre point of view, a patented standard is not the same as a patent-encumbered standard; the difference lies in the licencing.

Re: Oh, I totally agree... (0, Troll)

jcr (53032) | about 10 months ago | (#45119705)

Apple makes it very difficult for third party manufacturers,

No, they don't. They're very helpful to third party manufacturers who want to build compatible products, including cables.

-jcr

Re: Oh, I totally agree... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119729)

Apple makes it very difficult for third party manufacturers,

No, they don't. They're very helpful to third party manufacturers who want to build compatible products, including cables.

-jcr

The question wasn't building compatible cables or accessories, but including the Lightning plug in third-party handsets and gadgets (per USB comparison). If you are claiming that Apple makes it easy for other phone makers to adopt Lightning over micro-USB, that needs a bit of citation..

Re: Oh, I totally agree... (5, Informative)

gl4ss (559668) | about 10 months ago | (#45119759)

they're friendly to ACCESSORY manufacturers.

that's quite different from 3rd party hw manufacturers...

Re: Oh, I totally agree... (4, Insightful)

TheP4st (1164315) | about 10 months ago | (#45119899)

The difference being that Apple makes it very difficult for third party manufacturers

On the contrary, they gladly help third party accessory while at the same time they lock out handset manufacturers as that's very effective a lock-in of their customer base. Someone that have spent USD300 on a Bose SoundDock are less likely to change to a different handset maker than they otherwise would be since a SoundDock without an iPhone/iPad it is just a very expensive paperweight.

This customer lock in via third parties would evaporate the very instant that Apple gave other handset makers access to their proprietary connectors. And while Apple have equivalents to many of the third party accessories, it would not be possible for Apple to keep it all in-house as people want/need more variety on their accessories than Apple can and want to offer.

Apple need 3rd party manufacturers more than 3rd party manufacturers need Apple.

Re: Oh, I totally agree... (5, Informative)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119771)

No, "some company" does not own "the patent" on microUSB. USB was developed by an industry consortium to be a shared standard and, by design, no one company controls it.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (5, Insightful)

jawtheshark (198669) | about 10 months ago | (#45119551)

Absolutely. An open connector is preferable. Doesn't mean the Lightning connector isn't technically superior.

Yep (5, Insightful)

Sycraft-fu (314770) | about 10 months ago | (#45119723)

If Apple's issue really was that micro USB was too fragile, well they could have introduced a new, standard, connector to fix that. Design a "mobile USB" standard, that is durable, orients either way, integrates pins for HDMI, etc. Get it all nice n' designed and tested, then hand the design over to the USB Group, royalty free (like all USB standards). Particularly if it was going to be part of new Apple phones I don't imagine that there'd be a lot of resistance to adoption.

The EU's mandate doesn't come from a love of micro-USB, but rather the need for a standard, whatever that is. Micro-USB is the best we've got and the most prevalent, so that is what they are going for. If there was a better one out there, particularly if you could show how increased durability could lead to longer life and less waste, I think it'd have a good chance of being the standard.

However Apple has no interest in that at all. Their new connector wasn't made because micro-USB is so bad, it was made because Apple desires to be the only place you buy Apple accessories.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (4, Insightful)

remus.cursaru (1423703) | about 10 months ago | (#45119533)

Because yes, a simple 4 contacts/4 wires cable is clearly inferior to a proprietary crap, with custom connector and single-manufacturer authentication chips lock-in.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (5, Insightful)

jawtheshark (198669) | about 10 months ago | (#45119549)

I'm not saying that proprietary is preferable. I'm saying that from the design, the lightning connector is better. That's if parent encumbered an proprietary doesn't mean that it can't be technically superior, right? In other words: it would be preferable to have an open connector with the hardware design characteristics of the lightning connector.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119829)

You would rather have a connector that can't handle HD video? Last I checked, Lightning can't, and if I remember correctly, there are several other technical limitations that lightning has compared to even the old connector. But hey, you can plug it in either up or down! Wow.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (1)

N3x)( (1722680) | about 10 months ago | (#45119565)

I agree. If the microUSB standard was something closer to the lightning connector it might have been alright. But as it is now it's a fragile mess. And apple did keep one single connector for close to 9 years. No other brand of phone (or any consumer electronics really) is even close to that. Of course it would be wonderful if everyone just converged on a sane working standard of connectors with realistic lifecycles but i can't really see that happening.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (5, Interesting)

JeffOwl (2858633) | about 10 months ago | (#45119769)

"...a fragile mess." What are you people doing to your phones? I've never had a micro USB connector fail, either in the cable or on the phone. Maybe I'm just lucky?

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119809)

I've had a Mini USB connector completely fail (HTC Wizard) and a Mini connector stop doing data and only do power when you "wiggle it right" (HTC Desire).

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (4, Informative)

mcgrew (92797) | about 10 months ago | (#45119895)

I'm puzzled by complaints about fragility and having to be plugged in the right way. My last two phones and the one I have now had and have micro-USB. The cables outlasted the phones. OTOH, I've had a lot of those 1/8 inch audio jacks break. U wish they'd use RCA jacks on computers (it wouldn't work on a phone).

I would guess that most problems with any plugs stem from users pulling them out holding the wire rather than the plug.

USB itself will only plug in one way, polarized wall plugs only plug in one way, and I don't remember anyone bitching when they went from non-polarized to polarized wall plugs.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (1, Insightful)

Mitreya (579078) | about 10 months ago | (#45119571)

It'd rather see all phone manufacturers switch to the Lightning connector instead.

Ah, but even phone manufacturers did adopt Lightning connector and it sold cheaply, Apple would design a new Thunder connector to once again sell them at $30+ each

It's not the question of who has the better design -- it is that Apple intentionally keeps their connectors completely incompatible with the rest of the phones.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (2)

Goaway (82658) | about 10 months ago | (#45119673)

Well, no, they wouldn't. They stayed with the old connector for ages. They replaced it because it was getting too big.

Re: Oh, I totally agree... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119721)

Yes the old was too big so why didn't they just use Micro then? There already was a small connector.

Re: Oh, I totally agree... (1)

Sarten-X (1102295) | about 10 months ago | (#45119735)

...because Lightning is still superior for the reasons enumerated above.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (3, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | about 10 months ago | (#45119577)

I agree. There definitely should be a standard connector for this kind of thing, but it should be something that doesn't suck. The old Apple Dock connectors had a lot more functionality than the newer lightning ones, but the connector was bit too big. A ubiquitous connector needs:
  • A future-proof data signal (e.g. Thunderbolt, which can carry a signal fast enough that it won't be obsolete within a couple of years of release), that doesn't need to be supported by endpoints but can be detected and used if it is.
  • A widely-supported legacy signal (e.g. USB) so that it works everywhere
  • A lightweight mechanism for negotiating power demands and capabilities between supply and device.
  • A physically sturdy connector, with a reference design of a socket that will stand at least 1,000 insertions and ideally 10,000 in normal use.
  • A connector that either has an orientation so obvious that no one could possibly plug it in the wrong way, or one that works in either orientation.
  • Any patents that cover the design must be licensed royalty free, so third parties can interface with it cheaply and easily.

Neither microUSB nor Lightning meets these requirements. If Nokia wants to fix this, they should get together an industry group to design and agree to use such a connector. Don't complain at Apple, design a better connector than the Apple one, get everyone except Apple behind it, and market the hell out of it. Make every non-Apple phone have a big sticker on it saying that it supports the standard connector and list the features that make it better than the Apple one.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (3, Interesting)

wbr1 (2538558) | about 10 months ago | (#45119675)

1000 Insertions is way to few. I connect my phone (for charging or data transfer, 2-3 times a day. It would be out of design spec in a year. I use my devices longer than that thank you. (Although in many I am capable of replacing the jack, most others are not).

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119903)

micro usb is spec'ed for atleast 10000 cycles, so that would be ten years, mini usb is spec'ed for less

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119745)

It would be nice to have connectors designed for analog signals of a certain quality and protocol standards on top of that. You know, like we don't have Ethernet cables but Cat3, Cat5e, Cat6 and Cat7 cables and several network standards which use these cables.

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119597)

Oh, I totally agree... With the slight difference that I actually think that the Lightning connector is actually better design. It's small and orientation less and rather robust. Micro-USB, while ubiquitous, is rather fragile and has orientation. It'd rather see all phone manufacturers switch to the Lightning connector instead. I know this won't happen, especially since the EU mandates Micro-USB.

Oh, and before you accuse me of being an Apple fanboy. I'm still on a non-Lightning iPhone and if it wasn't my employer who paid for my phone, I wouldn't even have a smartphone.

My main problem with the Lightning cable is that it has "DRM" built in. And this adds unnecessary cost. It is also patented by Apple, so it can't be adopted by others.

Re:One Apple got right (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119599)

One that Apple did right was the headphone jack with the mic. If you want to see a bad selection of incompatible devices, try the multitude of cell phone wired headsets. Nokia was just as bad as the rest. My old Nokia phone had a connector that did not match anything by anybody else. Apple wired headsets, earbuds with mic, etc work fine on Motorola and other phones and some tablets. I first saw that configuration on Apple phones. It would be nice to unify on chargers. Motorola has a standard connector, but it does check for an authorised charger.. bummer. Plugging in a charger and the phone display unauthorized charger is the pits when you are low and borrow one away from home.
It will charge from a PC - if nobody is logged in on Windows7, and it will charge from Linux. Wierd. Not sure why I have to log out of Windows to charge the phone.

Re:One Apple got right (2)

jawtheshark (198669) | about 10 months ago | (#45119665)

Very good example AC! We now start to see the audio/mic jack on laptops too. I can buy any headset and pretty much use it on any device. For my older laptop, I got a 2€ convertor so I can use a "modern" headset on it.

Re: One Apple got right (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119693)

Eh? My RAZR HD is happy to charge off its own, a belkin, a generic cable plugged into the PC. What model are you talking about?

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (4, Insightful)

Trogre (513942) | about 10 months ago | (#45119689)

Micro-USB, while ubiquitous, is rather fragile and has orientation.

This.

What complete muppet designed USB, a frequent plug-unplug connector by nature, to have orientation?

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (0, Troll)

jcr (53032) | about 10 months ago | (#45119725)

If Micro-USB were any good, Apple would have used it. Apple chose USB for the iMac back in 1988 because it was better than ADB. In fact, it was that decision that really put USB on the map. It wasn't getting much traction in the Wintel world before that.

Engineering time is precious, and Apple doesn't just invent new connectors for shits and giggles. Where there's an existing standard that does what they need, they use it.

-jcr

Re:Oh, I totally agree... (1, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | about 10 months ago | (#45119847)

i think you mean 98. and I didn't think usb was ushered in by the imac in any sense because.. eh, who used 3rd party mice or keyboards on imacs? fucking nobody! and what did they use for video, ipods etc for several years before dropping it? firewire.. it was just a cheap way for them to get a bus for mice and kb that they could get cheap parts to instead of their own crazy adb - adb chips for kb and mice would have const considerably more for them.. it was a miracle they didn't add a bend to the connector just to fuck with people.

microusb is good if you just want some power in and be compatible with what most people have...

microusb would not have enabled them to chip their fucking _cables_ without an outcry though(now if you want to protect from bad _chargers_ chip the fucking _chargers_ and not the cable!).

(and you can squeeze some extra pins on the microusb if you want for video and what have you.. some manufacturers do it)

What's their problem? (2, Interesting)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 10 months ago | (#45119459)

Seriously, what's the problem? The important thing are charges that you can plug into the wall and that should be safe and powerful, with a USB outlet. And then you have cables that you plug into devices - what's the problem with having different cables? And why should a company producing _better_ cables switch to an inferior one?

Re:What's their problem? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119483)

Is a design that requires an authentication chip in the cable really superior? It doesn't protect you from unsafe cheap power supplies and means you have to buy these cables from Apple, or someone whom Apple has blessed with a license. I accept the physical design is safer, but why does it have to be proprietary?

Re:What's their problem? (4, Insightful)

gigaherz (2653757) | about 10 months ago | (#45119485)

Because Apple's cables are proprietary, and even contain a chip with the sole purpose to prevent third-parties from making their own. Apple overcharges users for the cables, while preventing the competition from building cheaper alternatives.

Re:What's their problem? (4, Informative)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119697)

If you're asking for the rationale behind the EU charger harmonisation, it's waste. If every device uses the same charger then fewer chargers have to be manufactured and ultimately recycled. For example you never have to go out and buy a "spare" charger for your smartphone to keep at the office, or a replacement for the one you left behind on holiday, if you already have four mutually intercompatible chargers that originally came with different products.

Of course whether that rationale makes any sense is up for debate but that's the logic.

Re: What's their problem? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119773)

Then whats the problem? Apple iPhone/iPad chargers already use the standard USB A connector like everyone else.

Re: What's their problem? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119805)

Do you take your $30 charging cable with your phone wherever you go? If you have any friends/relatives you plan to visit who don't own fairly new Apple hardware you're out of luck. Old 30-pin cables seem to have accumulated sufficiently to make charging in other places less of a pain, but now there's a fixed price floor for Apple cables, don't expect the same convenience you get from any other manufacturer any time soon.

Re: What's their problem? (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119819)

If Lightning was a set of wires and a connector that might be a valid argument, but the Lightning cable has enough computing hardware in it that I dare say it's more of a waste burden than the charger it plugs into.

Re: What's their problem? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119843)

Yes, but they don't use the standard micro-USB B connector, so you can't plug it into another phone.

Re:What's their problem? (1)

Krishnoid (984597) | about 10 months ago | (#45119827)

If every device uses the same charger then fewer chargers have to be manufactured and ultimately recycled.

I get the weird feeling that this could produce a counterbalancing effect -- a standardized connector and voltages might lower manufacturing costs enough that it makes sense to bundle one even with cheaper devices. Also, since one charger works with multiple devices, the other chargers might stay in the packaging until they're thrown out.

That aside, though, it's so freeing to be able to charge your device from an entirely different device's (and possibly owner's) charger, and to have enough otherwise unused chargers to just leave one in your luggage at all times.

Where we're going, we don't need no stinkin cables (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119473)

How important are cables going to be when everything your phone does is wireless (including charging) ?

Re:Where we're going, we don't need no stinkin cab (1)

Mike Frett (2811077) | about 10 months ago | (#45119505)

For things that don't need to be secure, sure, Wireless is OK. But you can't argue that Wired is more secure, forget about it. Wired, local networks are something a lot of Companies and Governments should learn to use. My home is completely wired, and I don't ever see that changing (I don't own a Smart Phone etc.). That's MY preference, but I understand completely that most people, seemingly yourself; don't really care about privacy or security.

Re:Where we're going, we don't need no stinkin cab (1)

jareth-0205 (525594) | about 10 months ago | (#45119559)

For things that don't need to be secure, sure, Wireless is OK.

Wait... we're talking about *charging*. Transmitting power to the phone, not interacting with data.

My home is completely wired, and I don't ever see that changing (I don't own a Smart Phone etc.).

Ah, that atleast is clear. What exactly is the point of a mobile phone that cannot communicate via wireless?

That's MY preference, but I understand completely that most people, seemingly yourself; don't really care about privacy or security.

What the fuck? That's a bit of a leap to get to that judgement! And you understand that even a wired connection is vulnerable? Perhaps the whole NSA revelations passed you by... Maybe you should disconnect completely, if you don't you 'obviously' don't care about privacy or security.

Re:Where we're going, we don't need no stinkin cab (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119835)

You're fine with communicating over the plain old internet, but won't use an encrypted wireless connection?

Re:Where we're going, we don't need no stinkin cab (4, Funny)

Joce640k (829181) | about 10 months ago | (#45119535)

How important are cables going to be when everything your phone does is wireless (including charging) ?

I'm working on a design that lets me suck power out of people's phones on the train and transfer it into mine. I'll never need to charge again!!

European regulations (1)

mu22le (766735) | about 10 months ago | (#45119481)

I believe they will have to cave in, eventually, as European regulators are pushing for micro USB-B as a standard for charging mobile devices.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_External_Power_Supply [wikipedia.org]

Re:European regulations (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119509)

You can get a Lightning to Micro USB adapter, pretty much everywhere you get an iPad.

The Lightning connector, for all its many proprietary ills, is so ridiculously better designed for actual usability compared to the nightmare that is Micro USB that it isn't even funny.

Re:European regulations (5, Insightful)

Amouth (879122) | about 10 months ago | (#45119525)

Apple uses the charge port/connection for handling all of the accessories and controlling what goes on the market for their phones while also getting a nice chunk of change in licensing fees.

If they are forced to comply with the European regulators, my bet is they will just add a micro USB-B port to the side of the device that is only connected for charging period while keeping their proprietary connector for everything it does now. I predict it will also be in an inconvenient location say the right side of the phone. And it may only be done for phones intended for orginal sale in Europe (although that is more dependant on sales volume their vs. supply chain cost/impact).

Either way they are going to do their best to comply with the letter of the law, and keep every bit of their business model and revenue streams intact.

I'd actually be willing to put money on this one,

Re:European regulations (1)

Spad (470073) | about 10 months ago | (#45119629)

Their solution thus far has been to sell a £25 Lightning->MicroUSB adaptor to people, which for some bizarre reason the EU thinks is fine even though the entire purpose of the MicroUSB charging standard requirements was to reduce waste (because previously everyone would have to bin their old charging cables when getting a new phone).

Re:European regulations (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119715)

It does meet the goals of the standard: the adaptor means that the iPhone 5 and later can accept any microUSB charger, and the Lightning charger can charge any microUSB phone. Functionally it's equivalent (once you buy two of them...) to just having a microUSB port on there.

Aesthetically...

Re:European regulations (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119731)

Wait, scratch that, I forgot they don't do an adaptor the other way.

Re:European regulations (1)

canadiannomad (1745008) | about 10 months ago | (#45119661)

And it may only be done for phones intended for orginal sale in Europe (although that is more dependant on sales volume their vs. supply chain cost/impact).

Given that, I'd probably go out of my way to get the european version... Being able to charge anywhere and any time is that important. I'm not constantly re-syncing, but I am constantly re-charging.

Re:European regulations (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119703)

I can't see Apple making a different batch of iPhone housings and logic boards just to make a token effort at supporting a European law. Their whole infrastructure - which Tim Cook masterminded - depends on having very few products with only small variations between them. There are iPhone 5 variants with different radio chips, but they all use the same motherboard, housing and antennas, for example.

Re:European regulations (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 10 months ago | (#45119781)

"Technically complying" won't fly, just like it didn't with the Samsung apology. Judges hate nothing more than when someone "flips them the bird" in their own courtroom. Should it ever get that far I'd expect there to be something like a mandatory adapter included with all EU iPhones, essentially rendering that Lightning protections useless.

Micro-usb 3.0 is so awful, Lightning makes sense (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119495)

Reason for Lightning: see this hideous microUSB 3.0 cable [androidbeat.com] what sort of shitty design is this? I know it's backwards compatible, but the USB standard was not future-proof as one can see from the picture, so it deserves to die.

Re:Micro-usb 3.0 is so awful, Lightning makes sens (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119633)

Reason for Lightning: see this hideous microUSB 3.0 cable [androidbeat.com] what sort of shitty design is this? I know it's backwards compatible, but the USB standard was not future-proof as one can see from the picture, so it deserves to die.

Reason #1 not to use Lightning: None of my non-Apple gadgets will support it (Apple doesn't allow it). That means my Go-Pro camera will be micro-USB, my wireless headphones will be micro-USB, any other phone than Apple in the household will be micro-USB, etc. etc. All of them will interchangeably use same charger and PC-connect cable. It doesn't help if a few Apple gadgets have a prettier plug, it still will not be compatible with anything else.

Reason #2: Built in authorization chip in the cable (!), adding cost, preventing competition.

Re:Micro-usb 3.0 is so awful, Lightning makes sens (1)

canadiannomad (1745008) | about 10 months ago | (#45119691)

Eww. That is ugly. I think I'd stick to the original until they learn a little style. Doesn't need built in backward compatibility (except with adaptors), just needs to work, be standard across most of my devices, and be available cheaply from scary 3rd world manufacturers.

Re:Micro-usb 3.0 is so awful, Lightning makes sens (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119783)

...and be replaced by another, superior high-speed USB interface and connector.

Re:Micro-usb 3.0 is so awful, Lightning makes sens (0, Flamebait)

terjeber (856226) | about 10 months ago | (#45119821)

hideous

Moron

er, the other cable chaos (2)

dnadoc (3013299) | about 10 months ago | (#45119553)

I was sure this was going to be about cable TV.

I'm left to wonder, why not? (1, Troll)

bogaboga (793279) | about 10 months ago | (#45119557)

Other experts say Apple cannot continue to go it alone with Lightning Connectors and ignore Micro USB.

Why not? After all micro usb has its share of shortcomings among which are the following:

1: No video capability
2: No docking capability

All users would be able to have are data transfer, and charging.

Pretty limited, right? Whatever happened to "Let the market decide?"

Re:I'm left to wonder, why not? (4, Informative)

Andtalath (1074376) | about 10 months ago | (#45119603)

5-pin MHL adds video.
11-pin MHL (samsung only atm unfortunately) adds OTG capabilities.

The connector is awful though, no other usb cable type breaks as easily for me.

Re:I'm left to wonder, why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119653)

Whatever happened to "Let the market decide?"

Closed standard. If it were an open standard, plenty of companies would adopt it for non-Apple products as well but for now Apple decides that it's an Apple only connector and the entire market will never switch to Apple so it will never be the winning standard as decided by the market.

Re:I'm left to wonder, why not? (4, Interesting)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119669)

Unlike the Dock which contained a whole load of dedicated video and audio connectors, the Lightning connector's just an 8-pin connector that gets its video and docking capability from sending a digital stream that's interpreted further down the line. There's no a lot that Lightning can do that microUSB can't do by a similar system such as MHL.

Charging is unique in that there's a time limit (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119719)

All of the other docking features are less essential to the basic operation of a phone. And most syncing can be deferred.

But if the thing runs out of power, the phone becomes a brick, usefulness zero.

Being able to always borrow a charger to maintain that basic level of functionality is a prerequisite to everything else.

Slashdot sinking to new lows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119563)

Now we have people complaining of cable orientation and defending and defending closed proprietary products...

Re:Slashdot sinking to new lows (2, Interesting)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | about 10 months ago | (#45119617)

Now we have people complaining of cable orientation and defending and defending closed proprietary products...

It's called maturity, something the /. crowd has a lot more of since the site's inception. Sometimes good proprietary stuff is better, sometimes small things like cable orientation matter. Sure beats the "if it's not open-source / Linux / GNU it's automatically crap" attitude of yore around here.

Re:Slashdot sinking to new lows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119645)

Now we have people complaining of cable orientation and defending and defending closed proprietary products...

It's called maturity, something the /. crowd has a lot more of since the site's inception. Sometimes good proprietary stuff is better, sometimes small things like cable orientation matter. Sure beats the "if it's not open-source / Linux / GNU it's automatically crap" attitude of yore around here.

But it is interesting how unimportant cable orientation and plug size was when Apple had the 30-pin plug :)

Re:Slashdot sinking to new lows (1)

Bongo (13261) | about 10 months ago | (#45119727)

It was still big enough that you could hold it against the slot and try. If it wouldn't go in, you turned it over. But with these tiny connectors, you're not even sure if you can't insert because you are just missing the hole in poor lighting. The problem has been basically getting slowly worse and I guess that's why people are so glad and relieved to have Lightning now, at least for that, other drawbacks aside. I have been cursing Apple for a while now because of how easy it is to insert a Thunderbolt upside down. One wishes to send the Hammer of Thor hurtling towards Apple HQ.

Re: Slashdot sinking to new lows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119803)

30pin design was a decade ago, maybe more. Was designed for Firewire. Which didn't have small connectors, nor support for video/audio/etc.

Re:Slashdot sinking to new lows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119695)

its not that if its not open source is crap... it probably the best cable in the world 100 years ahead in the future. The problem, if anything, is that is apple propietary and they lock their market in... (not that i know in this particular case... i barely know anything about appl standard)

You only act so cocky because other battles has been won thank to people that think this stuff matters.

Without this opensource crap you would had to pay for turning your computer on and only run whatever the company in power (tm) wanted by now...

Damn people is stupid. We have been thousands of years without computers... sure we can handle a couple of years of a cable without being the top better...

Re:Slashdot sinking to new lows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119699)

At least people used to get what they were expecting and if I wanted to see someone kiss Apples ass I'd rather go to arstechnica.com

Both are owned by Di.ce now. go figure.

Re:Slashdot sinking to new lows (2)

Bongo (13261) | about 10 months ago | (#45119711)

Cable orientation wasn't a problem before the connectors got tiny and I have to stare at it very closely to spot the shape. As we get older, some of us lose visual acuity. I don't want to have to call my wife to plug in my phone.

Re:Slashdot sinking to new lows (2)

mean pun (717227) | about 10 months ago | (#45119749)

Cable orientation wasn't a problem before the connectors got tiny and I have to stare at it very closely to spot the shape.

It was already a problem with the original USB connectors, and they are nowadays considered huge. How many human hours have been wasted in plugging in USB connectors the wrong way round? Per person it may not be much, but it does add up.

Re: Slashdot sinking to new lows (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119619)

Let me guess. You were a VHS man and not a Betamax man?

Frank Nuovo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119579)

Please put the name in the summary, so we know, that we are reading about actual design people, not bass guitar players or sons of the former presidents..

Anti apple rubbish (1)

pbjones (315127) | about 10 months ago | (#45119649)

Nokia had there own connectors for years, the B+N nook has it's own connector, it just one of those things. I think it's more important to have a single USB charger.

Re:Anti apple rubbish (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45119797)

Nokia's "own connectors" were just ordinary - fully standards-compliant - barrel plugs.

Re:Anti apple rubbish (1)

Krishnoid (984597) | about 10 months ago | (#45119863)

At least B&N corrected that -- I've been able to charge both my phone and my Nook Simple Touch using the same charger that came with my bluetooth headset.

It seems that Nokia guru... (2)

Prokur (2445102) | about 10 months ago | (#45119655)

...has finally bought an iPhone

Orientation (0)

redback (15527) | about 10 months ago | (#45119657)

Am I the only person who watches what they are doing while plugging things in?

are you all plugging your phones in with your eyes closed?

Re:Orientation (1)

RR (64484) | about 10 months ago | (#45119785)

Am I the only person who watches what they are doing while plugging things in?

are you all plugging your phones in with your eyes closed?

Sometimes. It used to be easy, when my phone had a barrel plug. I don't like how much longer it takes to orient and use micro-USB. I also don't like how my modern smartphone with micro-USB needs to be plugged in every night, while my dumbphone could go several days without charging.

Also, not everybody has such sharp eyes and steady hands. Maybe you don't, either, after a night of drinking and carousing. Micro-USB is an accessibility disaster.

Regulation kills innovation (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119663)

This industry is still too immature for connectivity to be regulated. I believe it would be a tragic waste of potential if we stop at Micro-USB or Lightning or any other current standard. The comparison power sockets is spurious - there hasn't been any innovation in that technology for a very long time.

Re:Regulation kills innovation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119865)

From Wiki [wikipedia.org] : "Using a somewhat heavy portable handset, Cooper made the first call on a handheld mobile phone on 3 April 1973 to his rival, Dr. Joel S. Engel of Bell Labs."

Mobile phones have been around for 40 years. Too immature? Get real.

Tough luck (1)

Manuel Ward (2868717) | about 10 months ago | (#45119685)

I can hear the ghost of Steve Jobs laughing from his grave.

Idiot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45119717)

It's not a chaos. It's a REVENUE STREAM. Manufacturers, vendors and Apple as patent licensor all profit of a high diversity of cables and connectors, and their changes with each product cycle. Oh we forget the customer losers in this game...

You keep using that word... (4, Funny)

sirwired (27582) | about 10 months ago | (#45119801)

"Other experts say Apple cannot continue to go it alone"

Cannot. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Apple can do whatever (1)

Xeno-Root (2914175) | about 10 months ago | (#45119831)

Apple can do whatever they want to do. I rather see Apple's stupid proprietary connectors than have a regulator shoving MicroUSB down their throats. Involve the regulators and innovation grinds to a a stand-still. Heck, just look at what patents and copyrights are doing to innovation and see. We can criticize Apple but saying that they "cannot" do it is pushing it.

Re:Apple can do whatever (2)

gl4ss (559668) | about 10 months ago | (#45119869)

you know what's funny? apple sells a microusb->lighting adapter. why? so they technically fill their promise to support microusb. what promise? the promise for why nokia, samsung etc all switched to microusb(they all agreed to it back in the day.. prior to iphone launch, too).

Apple's Next Move? (1, Funny)

GeekWithAKnife (2717871) | about 10 months ago | (#45119861)


Naturally, to appease the current problems with connectors and cables that differ across apple's product range a new cabling standard is needed to across the board.
I humbly suggest Apple will create the iCable. This magical cable will come in in two varieties, the iCableS and the iCableC. (The C version will of course be in different colours.)

The benefits of the iCable are many; it will support the latest Apple standards, enabling best-in-class functionality and transfer speeds. furthermore, it will create a new market for existing licensed manufacturers to create new adapters and will serve to push users into more upgrades and accessories as none of their previous cables will be usable. Not forgetting that the new cable will be totally useless with their existing devices.

The iCable will allow us to bring back those great office conversations of "Do you have a phone charger? -Oh no I need an iPhone charger."

Let's be fair, is there really a doube of why Apple is slowly losing out of market share in the smartphone wars?

Classic EU bureaucracy (2, Insightful)

Coward Anonymous (110649) | about 10 months ago | (#45119887)

Let's mandate an inferior standard and kill a superior standard so everyone can be the same on paper.

If you bothered to ask iPhone owners, you would find three things:

1. They enjoyed the same 30-pin connector for nearly a decade (a decade!) while other handset makers changed their connector and chargers for every new handset. They will likely enjoy the clearly superior Lightning connector for another decade.
2. They have no beef with their connector, or the cable - it works really well.
3. They don't care what Android is using or dream of having a compatible connector because they don't have an Android handset.

It's uniformity for the sake of a pencil pusher's concept of uniformity - not for consumers.

B-b-b-b-but (2)

The123king (2395060) | about 10 months ago | (#45119891)

Apple shareholders need their profits! 100% markup on their consumer electronics just isn't enough!

Apple devices have cables? (1)

mic0e (2740501) | about 10 months ago | (#45119897)

I always thought iOS devices were powered by the immortal soul of Steve Jobs and cutting-edge round corners. They are worse off than I thought.

Also, %s/nokia/microsoft/g

nokia is losing it.. (2)

sumitjadhav137 (3012081) | about 10 months ago | (#45119913)

i think Nokia cannot compete....unless it shifts to andriod...
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