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NSA Intercepted French Telephone Calls "On a Massive Scale"

Unknown Lamer posted 1 year,2 days | from the french-people-don't-deserve-privacy dept.

Privacy 330

rtoz writes "The US National Security Agency (NSA) has been intercepting French telephone calls 'on a massive scale,' according to a report published in Le Monde. According to Le Monde, the NSA recorded millions of telephone calls placed by French citizens over a 30-day period last year, including some placed by people with no connections to terrorist organizations. France called in the U.S. ambassador to protest the alleged large-scale spying on French citizens by NSA."

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Muslims (-1, Flamebait)

benjfowler (239527) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189061)

France is 5% Muslim, and given how feral and out-of-control their minorities are, I'd say they're fair game.

Re:Muslims (1, Insightful)

rubycodez (864176) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189091)

America is 75% christian, and given how feral and out-of-countrol some of the groups are, I'd say they're fair game.

Re:Muslims (4, Insightful)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189147)

Saying your $FOO doesn't mean you're really a $FOO as described by $FOO.SACRED_WRITINGS.

Re:Muslims (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189225)

Saying your $FOO [...]

*You're

Re:Muslims (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189309)

Better go tell the Foo Fighters.

Re:Muslims (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189611)

But every time someone tries to read the writings, they get a different interpretation.

Re:Muslims (5, Funny)

Joehonkie (665142) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189179)

America is 75% christian, and given how feral and out-of-countrol some of the groups are, I'd say they're fair game.

Apparently the NSA agreed with you.

Re:Muslims (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189209)

Let's get real. The worst christians is Westboro Baptist Church and what do they do? Protest funerals and tell everyone how gay lovers will burn in hell. Let's try an experiment: Paint Jesus in Feces in a Christian country and see what the worst thing that will happen to you as a result? Next, pain Mohammed in feces and see what will happen to you in a Muslim country. Or even a European one (death threats anyone)?

Oh wait, you were trying to make a lame attempt at equating the two.

Re:Muslims (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189293)

Westboro Baptist is worse than Christian terrorist Timothy McVeigh? Or the people who bomb abortion clinics and shoot doctors? And if you want I can continue listing other domestic terrorism by Christians.

And don't even try the "they aren't true Christians" nonsense.

Re:Muslims (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189543)

Plus i hear Christians have their huge number of followers by offering the best overall package, not by killing anyone with different beliefs.

Re:Muslims (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189297)

Not to mention the fact that the Westboro Baptists are obviously a troll group and not a sincere church. Fred Phelps used to be a civil rights lawyer for God's sake.

Re:Muslims (3, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189441)

Not to mention the fact that the Westboro Baptists are obviously a troll group and not a sincere church. Fred Phelps used to be a civil rights lawyer for God's sake.

I get what you mean. They are a US domestic CIA PsyOp. It's always been evident.
 

Re:Muslims (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189323)

Let's get real. The worst christians is Westboro Baptist Church and what do they do? Protest funerals and tell everyone how gay lovers will burn in hell. Let's try an experiment: Paint Jesus in Feces in a Christian country and see what the worst thing that will happen to you as a result? Next, pain Mohammed in feces and see what will happen to you in a Muslim country. Or even a European one (death threats anyone)?

Oh wait, you were trying to make a lame attempt at equating the two.

Are you seriously trying to say that there would not be one death threat, and no possibility of it being carried out, from a Christian over such an experiment? Have you lived on this planet long?

Re:Muslims (4, Insightful)

camperdave (969942) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189625)

I think he's saying that while you may get death threats in the States, in a Muslim country you wouldn't live long enough to get death threats. In the US, such a painting is would be protected speech. In Muslim countries, this would be a government mandated death penalty.

Re:Muslims (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189339)

Are you telling me that WBC is worse than those "christians" bombing clinics, killing doctors, spread hate and starts war like bush just because "god told me"?

Have you even seen some of those christians? Muslims are no worse than christians, just watch africa, and see what the christian militias such as sudanese christian militias roaming around and raping , LRA (congo, heard of kony?) and other places, or do you really think that every fucking militia in africa is muslim or animist? There is one major religion in Africa and it's christianity, look at south africa, not only were they christian but they also used bible verses to support their apartheid.

Re:Muslims (-1, Troll)

PRMan (959735) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189425)

Have you seen some of those atheists? Hitler, Stalin and Mao make Muslims and especially Christians look like rank amateurs. And, quite frankly, I don't know of anyone who actually believes that Kony is a Christian, despite the name of their army.

Re:Muslims (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189523)

Yeah, Atheists definitely win the "Brutal, senseless, overwhelming genocide" game.

Their High Scores are almost untouchable.

Re:Muslims (4, Informative)

rubycodez (864176) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189583)

Hitler was not an atheist. He was a Roman Catholic, and had agreements and treaties with the Vatican

Re:Muslims (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189643)

That's debatable, but even taking Hitler out of the mix, the Atheists still have the High Score.

Re:Muslims (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189365)

http://prochoice.org/about_abortion/violence/history_extreme.asp

Re:Muslims (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189383)

Let's get real. The worst Christians are Westboro Baptist Church, and what do they do?

First, FTFY.

Second, you're living in a fantasy land if you think the WBC is the be-all-end-all for asshole "Christians" in the USA.

Try telling that to the family of Dr. George Tiller, [wikipedia.org] you ignorant prick.

Re:Muslims (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189533)

Oh wait, you were trying to make a lame attempt at equating the two.

He's actually doing a reductio ad absurdum, to underline how silly the premise is. That doesn't mean the christian majority of US is as aggressive as the Muslim minority of Europe. They are much, much more dangerous because they, aside from a few extremists, are the only ones acting out their delusions of world control.

Re:Muslims (1)

rubycodez (864176) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189565)

you are funny. Hitler was a Christian.

To say nothing of the Christian support in this country for waging wars of choice against "godless heathen" in middle east

Re:Muslims (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189633)

WBC are mostly harmless. Much as I hate to defend them, they have always been non-violent protesters - and to keep their cool is quite an achievement given the type of (well-earned) abuse that has been directed at them. I think it helps that they have a real persecution complex going, so the more hated they are the more they feel justified in their beliefs.

Re:Muslims (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189119)

France is 5% Muslim, and given how feral and out-of-control their minorities are, I'd say they're fair game.

Ah, spoken like a true American who feels entitled to be a douchebag.

When the rest of the world decides they're tired of your shit, you can likely expect to see a backlash against the US.

I can see governments basically saying "we're not buying your stuff, we're not hosting your bases, we're sure as hell not working with you and we don't give a fuck".

America likes to think their interests trump everyone else's. But I see a time coming where other governments start saying "fuck you".

Re:Muslims (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189281)

"When the rest of the world decides they're tired of your shit, you can likely expect to see a backlash against the US.

I can see governments basically saying 'we're not buying your stuff, we're not hosting your bases, we're sure as hell not working with you and we don't give a fuck' ".

Sure... right up to the point their sad little country gets overrun by extremists, then all come running back to the US asking for aid. Sure... waiting for you to be right... *rolls eyes*

Re:Muslims (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189291)

Well, we all know the Muzzies are just as likely to say hello to you or to blow themselves up. You can't really blame them for being paranoid. It's a rational action to take.

Re:Muslims (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189295)

Every-US-based cloud service (Azure, Amazon, Google etc) has become unreliable and unusable for non-US citizens. Just wait and see us run away from those services.

I suppose the US government will not compensate those companies for their loss.

Re:Muslims (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189413)

When the rest of the world decides they're tired of your shit, you can likely expect to see a backlash against the US.

I was under the impression that this is exactly what's happening. And that the US feels it must "work, though, sort of the dark side [youtube.com] " as a result.

Re:Muslims (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189189)

With "allies" like your country no one needs enemies.

Re:Muslims (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189461)

Yes, but to which country are you referring? At first glance, you could be speaking towards America from the perspective of a Frenchman; but remember in World War 2 it was the French who were waving white flags and generally being cheese-eating surrender-monkeys while America was storming the beaches and saving the world from Fascism. Sacre' Bleu!

So I ask you, Froggie McTadpole, with "allies" like the French, who needs enemies? I know what you need -- a greasy, heaping helping of Freedom Fries!

-- Ethanol-fueled

Re:Muslims (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189547)

They're still needed more than the French. Their place on the Security Council is a pity-vote because "They used to be a big deal guys!"

Re:Muslims (2)

Desler (1608317) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189343)

There are far more Muslims in the US than there is in France. So you might mind all your calls being tapped by foreign intelligence agencies, right?

Re:Muslims (1)

Desler (1608317) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189429)

Might = won't.

Re:Muslims (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189427)

Israel is 16.5% Muslim, if you don't count the untermenschens in the West Bank that Israel is trying to cleanse away.

Shills ahoy!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189073)

In b4 cold fjord and benjfowler make shill posts defending any and all actions of the NSa.

Re:Shills ahoy!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189473)

Beat him by 9 minutes, nice!

Re:Shills ahoy!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189561)

Possible all hydra heads to the same ultra right think tank run propagandist account maintainer(s). Charge: Influence discourse and muddy the water. Not that it matters, mods more than usually smack them down and their grovelling boot licking to power is actually entertaining at times. They work to discredit only their own accounts. Check how many times Cold Fjord has admitted he might have been wrong on the little things like say, WMD in Iraq. (Hint: Never).

Realities (1)

cyberpocalypse (2845685) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189077)

"Foreign intelligence" speaks for itself. Any country complaining about it is playing a shell game. The reality is, they'd do the same if they had the capabilities to do so.

Re:Realities (4, Insightful)

rubycodez (864176) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189113)

which is not a valid argument for any NSA actions against a friendly country.

Re:Realities (5, Informative)

schneidafunk (795759) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189221)

Friendly? France is well known for its industrial espionage [france24.com] .

Re:Realities (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189255)

And its surrendering at the slightest hint of aggression.

Re:Realities (2)

Coeurderoy (717228) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189227)

OTH if they keep doing it the country might stop being friendly, so it is a nice self fulfilling prophecy

It's all just a show (5, Insightful)

sjbe (173966) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189385)

which is not a valid argument for any NSA actions against a friendly country.

There is no such thing as a friendly foreign country as far as intelligence services are concerned. While I (and probably you) do not and should not approve of the NSA's actions, we also should not be even a tiny bit surprised by them and you can be quite sure France is not surprised despite what their government might claim. Allies can become enemies and even countries on good terms can harbor dangerous individuals - sometimes unknowingly. The US and Canada have the longest undefended border in the world but I guarantee you that they do spy on each other and that each has developed invasion/defense plans against the other just in case. Intelligence services like the CIA and NSA look for information wherever it can be found. If that happens to be a "friendly" nation or even their own citizens then so be it. This is why it is SO important to have meaningful oversight by civilian authorities. Something which we are sorely lacking at the present time.

Countries that complain about NSA spying are really just putting on a show for their voting public. They have their own intelligence services and you can be 100% certain they are spying on the US and you can also be 100% sure that they knew or at least suspected the NSA spying already. Frankly the ONLY thing that would surprise me is if they were not trying to replicate to some degree what the US is doing.

Re:It's all just a show (3, Funny)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189513)

Oh yeah, "just in case". Never mind the fact that we Canadians had robotic moose and beavers for the last 150 years and we've been using them to spy on you since the late 1200's.

Re:Realities (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189157)

But Mom! All the kids are doing lines and beating up old ladies!

Re:Realities (1)

Opportunist (166417) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189223)

Who says they don't? They might just also have the capabilities to not get caught with their fingers in the cookie jar.

Re:Realities (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189245)

The French are not complaining about "foreign intelligence" they first and foremost defending their citizens rights. NSA tapped the whole frigging country including underwater sea cables. They didn't spy on specific strategic interests but every damn citizens of france and didn't even bother to work through the french security establishment that already cooperates fully with NSA. NSA managed to piss of the french by fucking them over multiple times at once.

Re:Realities (3, Funny)

ebno-10db (1459097) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189299)

NSA tapped the whole frigging country including underwater sea cables.

As much as I don't like what the NSA has been doing, it's nice to know that that Yankee "can do" spirit isn't dead.

Re:Realities (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189405)

"Foreign intelligence" speaks for itself. Any country complaining about it is playing a shell game. The reality is, they'd do the same if they had the capabilities to do so.

Ah, but you forget: This is an accusation being leveled against America. Thus, it's open and welcome to shame the entire country over it!

Re:Realities (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189407)

The reality is, they'd do the same if they had the capabilities to do so.

That line of thought can justify just about any imaginable act of aggression. We can summary execute the citizens of any other country - since we have the capability, we can nuke anyone we feel like - they'd do it first if they could, etc. Complete breakdown of international law and agreements and the right of might.

Well, guess what US, the world is changing fast and it's just a matter of decades until the mighty will be in Asia. You won't like living in the world you've helped create.

Re:Realities (1)

caladine (1290184) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189501)

Agreed. Besides, the conspiracy theorist in my head thinks a lot of this is faux outrage on the part of the French government. I'm willing to bet that similar to the UK, the NSA is sharing all the information they're getting from the French taps with the DCRI (or other French intelligence service). Sort of reminds me of the Pakistani drone strikes. Outraged in public but definitely working with the US behind closed doors.

Mais voila (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189153)

including some placed by people with no connections to terrorist organizations

Some, as in a few. Out of millions? Are we to understand that during those particular 30 days there was heavy terrorist chatter on French phones, to the tune of some millions of calls? Would this be justification enough for another D day? /sarcasm

Re:Mais voila (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189307)

there was heavy terrorist chatter on French phones

No, mostly they captured a lot of smoking on the phone.

Another strike against dragnetting (2)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189155)

It's impossible to keep an operation that big under wraps. I can't say I have a problem with the US spying on other countries. I do have a major problem with a wasteful, counterproductive grab bag approach that relies on 20ish high school dropouts.

Re:Another strike against dragnetting (4, Insightful)

ebno-10db (1459097) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189315)

Given how patriotic one of them has been, I'll give three cheers for 20ish high school dropouts.

...including some placed by people... (5, Insightful)

Opportunist (166417) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189185)

with no terrorist connections?

SOME?

When you intercept millions of phone calls, I'd rather expect that the majority of them are not placed by terrorists, else terrorists have the phone habits of the average western teenager.

Re:...including some placed by people... (4, Funny)

Coeurderoy (717228) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189249)

All teenagers are terrorist, just ask the parents of the other teenager :-)

Re:...including some placed by people... (0)

Thanshin (1188877) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189273)

"Some" covers from "one" to "all".

Re:...including some placed by people... (1)

Mordok-DestroyerOfWo (1000167) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189421)

You have to remember, all people are terrorists until proven otherwise. The NSA is doing its best to wade through the phone calls but they need more funding. So fund the NSA, you don't want the terrorists to win...do you?

terrorists have the phone habits of the average (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189539)

Terr1: "What'ya do'ing, dog?!"

terr2: "Hang'in build'in bombs. And you?"
"Same ole, same ole. Did ya catch that bombing by Sucmadiq? Damn Dog! That was rad!"
"Nah. My Mom kept me in because I played Call of Duty too long. Play it?"
"Hell yeah! I get to kill all those infidels! And many times I pose as one and start shoot'm in the back!"
"Dog!"
"Word!"

Re:...including some placed by people... (3, Insightful)

zAPPzAPP (1207370) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189575)

You only have to adjust your definition of 'terrorist comnnections'.

For the NSA, an Nth degree connection is most likely enough.
As in: your number has in the past called some number, that was also called by a number which had been in contact with a number which is suspected to have once been used by someone who's name is on one of their lists.
This kind of 'meta-information' is exactly what they are fishing for after all.

I am more interested in how they got 'some' with no terrorist connections. Maybe only brand new phone numbers on their first use?

Dear Frogland (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189191)

Boo freekin hoo. This is what the NSA is supposed to do.

They are NOT supposed to do it inside the U.S. to U.S. citizens.

Re:Dear Frogland (3, Insightful)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189469)

Boo freekin hoo. This is what the NSA is supposed to do.

Um, no. They are supposed to focus on the activities of groups who are directly threatening American interests.

They are not supposed to waste billions of dollars worth of resources building haystacks through which to search for needles.

Face it, if the US governments interest was truly limited to fighting actual terrorism, the whole dragnet approach would be considered nothing but an expensive waste of time.

Scarrrring !!!! (2)

Coeurderoy (717228) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189199)

Millions of conversations & "some" are not related to terrorists !
Millions is at least 2 millions or 66 666/day...
"Some" is at most "half" so there where apparently 33 333 conversations related to terrorist every day ... shudder ....
So assuming that all these bad guys where plotting like crazy, every day, and always the same, that still means that with 50 conversations per day the NSA should have found out at least 600 "new" terrorist ...
nb: there are about 60 000 people in jail in France, so at the very least 1% is something like "large" ....

So Where are they ??? are they hiding under my table ... or in some bush on my way home .... shudder shudder ....

Or should it read, some conversations where related to terrorism ...

In practice, when the official communication says: we looked at all these people and some where innocent... I find it much more scary than
we unfortunately looked at a lot of innocent people but we did find "some" very bad people...

The fact that the communication days "some where innocent" really gives the impression that they are again trying to bamboozle us ...

Foreign Intelligence (-1, Troll)

cold fjord (826450) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189203)

Yet another revelation from Snowden that reveals Top Secret American foreign intelligence activities that have no relation to the rights of Americans.

When will people come to understand that his goal was not simply protecting the rights of Americans? Isn't it clear from who his Russian spokesman was [businessinsider.com] ?

Maybe they just wanted to know how many French cars would burn this year [nytimes.com] , set ablaze by.....guess who?

More than 40,000 vehicles are burned each year in France...

Re:Foreign Intelligence (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189345)

Yes, Snowden and Greenwald have a clear agenda. And it is the libertarian view that government is bad and should be defunded.

Re:Foreign Intelligence (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189387)

Yet another revelation from Snowden that reveals Top Secret American foreign intelligence activities that have no relation to the rights of Americans.

Yet more irrelevant nonsense and FUD from bootlicking cold fjord. Why do you artificially limit wha he can disclose to only those things that affect Americans? Actions are wrong based on the deed not at who they are directed at.

Re:Foreign Intelligence (-1, Troll)

benjfowler (239527) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189545)

You are a sad individual indeed, if you have nothing better to do and stalk pro-Western posters on Slashdot.

Re:Foreign Intelligence (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189423)

Yet another revelation from Snowden that reveals Top Secret American foreign intelligence activities that have no relation to the rights of Americans.

Given the underwhelming response by those who think the Constitution is just a piece of paper, a little foreign heat could only help.

When will people come to understand that his goal was not simply protecting the rights of Americans? Isn't it clear from who his Russian spokesman was?

Given the vicious response of his native country's government to his whistle blowing on 4th Amendment violations, he'd be a fool not to make allies of convenience. Worked for us in WWII.

Maybe they just wanted to know how many French cars would burn this year [nytimes.com], set ablaze by.....guess who?

According to the article you linked to, the "guess who" is the French.

Re:Foreign Intelligence (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189485)

set ablaze by.....guess who?

Insurance fraudsters? You sir, are a trollers troll - apparently upset at the news Snowden never took any files to Russia so you have stooped to insinuating that the FSB commenting on the case way back when he was still in the airport means they speak for him. This is despite the fact that Snowden gave a freakin press conference from the airport at this same time, and that Wikileaks has released several statements and letters from Snowden since.

What a sad life it must be to live as a propagandist for an increasingly fascist state, may the mods slap your tripe down.

Re:Foreign Intelligence (1)

Arker (91948) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189627)

You are not making any sense here.

Illegal actions taken by our government against foreigners, causing damage to our countries reputation, its relations, and indeed sparking violent blowback as well, is one of the major dangers that Americans face in todays world. Ignoring or avoiding those problems is pointless.

Who. Fucking. Cares. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189205)

Honestly. I'm totally cool with the US spying on the rest of the world. Why are people shocked, this is their job. Stop spying on *us* and I'll be happy. Spy on the frogs as much as you want, what are they gonna talk about, 30 hour work weeks including 3 hour lunches?

Re:Who. Fucking. Cares. (1)

Khashishi (775369) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189259)

Perhaps people who live in France care? Not everyone is as self-centered as thou.

Re:Who. Fucking. Cares. (1)

Desler (1608317) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189409)

So you have no problems with China and Russia tapping your phones and stealing data from your computers?

Re:Who. Fucking. Cares. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189433)

I'm not as much angry at this specific revelation as I am bewildered. What is going on in France that is relevant to us and our national security? Is it worth the expenditure? That's really what I want to know.

Re:Who. Fucking. Cares. (4, Interesting)

ledow (319597) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189459)

It's their job to a) not blanket-grab millions of phone users of data in a random bug hunt but to apply "intelligence" and b) not to get caught doing so. They are spies. This is just terribly amateur. If you don't see that, then you're really missing the biggest thing - that's the problem more than ANYTHING else. So fucking amateur that it makes you look like a bunch of incompetents.

However, on a similar note, if you found out that the French authorities had a complete copy of your phone records which got publicly leaked (WikiLeaks-style, say), would you not be pissed? It could easily destroy your career, your life, your relationships, etc. (think: This might include the phone numbers of sex chat lines, and you might be a politician / teacher - nothing ILLEGAL in doing that, but would you want that being public knowledge after illegal collection of that data by a foreign entity not being held subject to the laws of YOUR country?).

Now think that that might include, say, phone calls made by the US ambassador to France while he was in the US. Now we're into REALLY serious shit that you can't even get in a court of law in the country.

What's more shocking is NOT that this data exists, or has been abused for purposes far beyond their remit, nor that they are that incompetent that it gets found out so easily (but that's pretty damning), but that - in order to "protect" the US, they have now incurred the wrath of quite a number of other countries allied to them and - should it come out into the public media that certain things were captured "accidentally" into that data - could well be the trigger to an international incident (read: War).

What if you found that a US ally like, say, the UK had complete records of every US citizen that the US did not give them (because a law prevents the US from doing so, and they thought it was just a blind hunt without purpose, and couldn't see why the UK would need that so they blocked it) but they stole in other ways and then managed to publish/leak to a newspaper in the UK?

And what if that info contained things like the phone records of major political figures? Or the phone calls made from Guantanamo Bay? Or what numbers were dialled in the Washington DC area when the UK queried why it join in fighting in the Middle East (or whatever?). It's not WHAT specifically was collected - it was why it was collected and what COULD be inside that that could easily trigger an international incident. And it has. And will continue to do so while things like this come out.

Fact is, there's being a spy - and that means NOT GETTING CAUGHT - and there's just going on a blind hunt through data "because you can" against the laws of a country you are allied to (who would have given you what you wanted if you'd asked).

Just how much co-operation do you think you will see next time you're trying to track a terrorist cell through France? It's counter-productive, and BAD SPYING. TERRIBLE SPYING. CRAP SPYING. And it's pissing off your allies.

Re:Who. Fucking. Cares. (-1)

benjfowler (239527) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189587)

It's not so much they got caught, but some egotistical libertarian fuckwit leaked it to the press.

Foreign intelligence (0)

wjcofkc (964165) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189237)

Two words combined that don't make sense.

because we can (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189253)

Welcome to the new normal.

Keeping control over people have been the function of government from its creation back in the times of small hunting bands One group controls the other by controlling the information and what they know. From best hunting grounds to modern connections of people. The only difference now is it is easer to gather the data on everyone rather then set groups. Now that most everyone know's they have most of what they do watched and recorded for later use, your habits and norms can be controlled. People that know they are being watched act differently and it is not always good for society. Or it may bring forth a more secure internet by people using and demanding secure communication beyond the viewing of government. Sadly history has shown that this requires pain and suffering, wars and blood.

()-()

Not French Telephone Calls (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189267)

Freedom telephone calls

France is top industrial espionage country (2)

schneidafunk (795759) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189275)

This article [telegraph.co.uk] articulates many points on France's recent espionage history.

Uh oh. (5, Funny)

Daas (620469) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189287)

La merde vient de frapper le ventilateur.

Old... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189301)

But gold...

go ahead.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189303)

Go ahead, keep on voting for Republicans and Democrats. Because that isn't causing any problems at all.

Re:go ahead.... (1)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189541)

It's choice, Jim, but not as we know it.

If French intelligence had tapped US phones ... (3, Insightful)

schwit1 (797399) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189311)

I suspect many Americans would be demanding that Versailles get nuked or we name french fries to freedom fries.

Re:If French intelligence had tapped US phones ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189353)

What makes you think they didn't?

OK, I get it... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189351)

But, does EVERY damned day have to have a new Snowden-release, with the latest "outrage"?? Come ON people.

Perfectly reasonable (4, Funny)

DeathToBill (601486) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189363)

God knows, if there's anyone I want protecting from it's the French. Sir Humphrey Appleby had it right. They may be our allies now, but for most of the last 1,000 years they've been our enemies. I'd vote for an increase of surveillance on the French.

And once that's happened, let's start on the Welsh.

Backwards wording (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189367)

"The NSA recorded millions of telephone calls placed by French citizens over a 30-day period last year, including some placed by people with no connections to terrorist organizations"

Not really.

"The NSA recorded millions of telephone calls placed by French citizens over a 30-day period last year, including a miniscule few by people with supected connections to terrorist organizations"

What is the plan here? (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189451)

Screw all your friends over until you don't have any friends?

Asking for their statue back? (3, Insightful)

petes_PoV (912422) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189455)

So will the french demand the return of the Statue of Liberty that they gifted to the americans?

Not so much as retribution, simply because it doesn't apply, any more.

Re:Asking for their statue back? (1)

Sez Zero (586611) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189571)

So will the french demand the return of the Statue of Liberty that they gifted to the americans?

Hey France: Molon labe.

Funny (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189507)

I find it funny that this is such a revelation to people. NATO countries have been spying on each other for decades. Agencies are often not allowed to spy on their own citizens, but if you could get another country to do it it would be perfectly legal. Basically the French politicians are pretending to be alarmed to get elected again. All the while they know the information is already being shared with them. All alphabet agencies share copious amounts of data between countries and have been for decades. You were under the impression INTERPOL, BND, DGSE, SIS, etc are all running around not sharing data?

And people are surprised by this? (1)

gravis777 (123605) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189511)

People have "known" (ie suspected) for years that the federal government was doing something like this. With all the revelations that have been released recently, why are people so surprised when another comes out? And this may have been started by the previous administration (or the one before that) but the current administration knew about it. I am kinda surprised there has not been a Congressional hearing about this yet.

Spying is like having an affair (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,2 days | (#45189535)

To have an affair is a very French thing to do. To get caught is an American thing.

How? (1)

DMiax (915735) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189553)

I'm wondering how this is possible. As long as it's communications going through Google, Skype, or some other americal corp, it's pretty easy to just intercept whatever goes through their servers. Intercepting real landlines is a wholly different game. It needs on site infrastracture, cause I doubt they get routed through the US. This means there is someone inside France that should get their ass handed to them for this, before one even starts thinking of the guys at NSA.

LMFTFY (1)

tgd (2822) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189555)

"The US National Security Agency (NSA) has been intercepting FREEDOM telephone calls 'on a massive scale,' according to a report published in Le Monde.

The French government is enraged.... (0)

argStyopa (232550) | 1 year,2 days | (#45189563)

...that the NSA managed to intercept more calls of French citizens.... ...than the French government.

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