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Citizen Eavesdrops On Former NSA Director Michael Hayden's Phone Call

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the daily-schadenfreude dept.

Privacy 390

McGruber writes "The Washington Post has the news that former head of the NSA Michael Hayden took a call while on the Acela train between D.C. and Boston. Hayden was talking to a journalist 'on background', which means the reporter is not allowed to cite Hayden by name. Unfortunately for Hayden, another train passenger overhead the call and live-tweeted it. 'Mattzie continued to livetweet Hayden’s conversations slamming the Obama administration, all the while insisting that he be referred to only on background. The conversation also seemed to touch on Hayden’s time as the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency under President George W. Bush as well. "Hayden was bragging about rendition and black sites a minute ago," Mattzie wrote. Hayden has in the past defended the use of waterboarding against detainees held in various sites around the world, and dismissed torture as a "legal term."'"

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Bragging about torture (4, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | about a year ago | (#45235907)

That's basically what I came to expect from Bush officials like him. I sometimes forget how bad things were.

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Funny)

Tog Klim (909717) | about a year ago | (#45235963)

When your hangnail hurts, it is easily forgotten by smashing your toe with a hammer.

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about a year ago | (#45235985)

Your analogy sucks. Because whatever else is true, at least we're not fucking torturing people(ourselves) anymore.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236015)

At least not that you are aware.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236097)

If we were, our hero Snowden would surely have informed us.

Re:Bragging about torture (4, Informative)

Dunbal (464142) | about a year ago | (#45236125)

Torture is not the NSA's job. That's more CIA.

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Funny)

nitehawk214 (222219) | about a year ago | (#45236167)

Torture is not the NSA's job. It's more of a hobby.

Re:Bragging about torture (3, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | about a year ago | (#45236121)

Right. You go on and keep telling yourself that. Not getting caught doing it is not the same as not doing it.

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236159)

Your analogy sucks. Because whatever else is true, at least we're not fucking torturing people(ourselves) anymore.

Maybe. Maybe not.

But Obama summarily executes US citizens.

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Informative)

aeranvar (2589619) | about a year ago | (#45236161)

We're not torturing anyone anymore? I'm pretty sure the United Nations [latimes.com] disagrees.

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Insightful)

pla (258480) | about a year ago | (#45236181)

Killing (without a trial), sure. Indefinitely detaining (without a trial), sure. Stalking to the ends of the Earth and forcing them to seek political asylum with countries not really known for their own human rights records, sure.

But torturing? Goodness no! How barbaric!


BTW, I have a bridge for sale in San Francisco - Cheap! Only one previous owner, who treated it almost like a national landmark.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236543)

I never have really got the bridge for sale meme. It makes no sense in the context it's used in. Why not not refer to something rarer or non-existent?

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

Greg01851 (720452) | about a year ago | (#45236559)

Evidently you never got the context. You can't sell something you don't own... that's the point.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236805)

It's obvious to most people that he does not own the bridge he is claiming to sell, but if you're a sucker willing to believe the above, it's worth a shot to believe he can sell you the golden gate bridge too.

... Is the way the meme works.

It is barbaric. (1)

Valdrax (32670) | about a year ago | (#45236723)

Killing (without a trial), sure. Indefinitely detaining (without a trial), sure. Stalking to the ends of the Earth and forcing them to seek political asylum with countries not really known for their own human rights records, sure.

But torturing? Goodness no! How barbaric!

Are we not allowed to think all of those are terrible, or do you just take exception to people thinking torture is a special kind of evil on par with rape?

Re:Bragging about torture (2, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | about a year ago | (#45236233)

Because whatever else is true, at least we're not fucking torturing people(ourselves) anymore.

One small problem:

The mainstream media had (IMHO thankfully) a bit of a hate-on for Bush, so every little thing his administration did wrong was broadcast loud and clear. They don't seem to have the same diligence towards the current administration, which means we the public doesn't get to see anything ugly until it becomes too big of a story to ignore, and even then it's usually quieted down or distracted from awfully quick.

Set aside any partisan feelings you may have and let me put it this way: If the Bush administration handled, say, the whole Benghazi incident exactly the same way our current administration had, would there or would there not be calls for impeachment from the likes of CNBC (as there were very loudly during much of Bush's latter years in office)?

Note that I say this not due to any ideology, but to illustrate a point: The mainstream media (yes, including FOX) tends to be a bit kinder to our current president than the media really should be.

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236427)

No, there wouldn't be calls for impeachment. Last I checked, those calls only happened for Bush when it became painfully clear that the war in Iraq was sold under fraudulent pretenses. Before that, there was a lot of outcry, sure, but then all the calls for impeachment of Bush were dwarfed by the calls to impeach Clinton for his infidelity.

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Informative)

evil_aaronm (671521) | about a year ago | (#45236527)

Gotta call BS on this. The media were called "message force multipliers" under the Bush administration specifically because they were so amenable to whatever Bush wanted the rest of us to hear. It was independent outlets, like McClatchey, or foreign news services, that reported what might be called "truth."

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Insightful)

Capt James McCarthy (860294) | about a year ago | (#45236589)

Gotta call BS on this. The media were called "message force multipliers" under the Bush administration specifically because they were so amenable to whatever Bush wanted the rest of us to hear. It was independent outlets, like McClatchey, or foreign news services, that reported what might be called "truth."

It is strange that you hear this on whomever is in office at the time. "The press is the mouthpiece of Yaya Adminstration."

I guess there must be some magic key that controls the press when you get elected to the highest office to serve the people.

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Insightful)

BobMcD (601576) | about a year ago | (#45236781)

You're being serious, but the 'magic key' should be obvious. It goes like this:
"Do you want anyone in government to talk to you ever again?"

If so, you play ball.

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Insightful)

Barsteward (969998) | about a year ago | (#45236623)

pity their hate-on bush didn't identify the financial black hole he was creating for his amusement of invading iraq etc

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

EvilSS (557649) | about a year ago | (#45236257)

Can you provide proof of that assertion please...

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236507)

I too would love to see requested proof. ...time passes...

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236555)

I too would *love* to see requested proof ...time passes...

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

smooth wombat (796938) | about a year ago | (#45236533)

at least we're not fucking torturing people(ourselves) anymore.

That we know of. Most likely the current administration just farmed out the job to other nations who don't see a problem with it.

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Insightful)

bhcompy (1877290) | about a year ago | (#45235983)

Were? You think things are better? Our government is executing Americans overseas without a trial(even an unfair one) now.

WATERBOARD HAYDEN (2)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about a year ago | (#45236087)

NOW!

That'll IMPROVE his advocacy!

Oh, and BTW:

Thanks, Obama! Thanks for the CHANGE!

Re:Bragging about torture (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236205)

It's actually significantly WORSE now. At least the Republicans operated from a perspective of basic christian morals. The Demoncrats and Hussein Obama in particular, have no morals whatsoever, and lie cheat and steal endlessly to further their radical left wing atheistic agenda.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236281)

You are a special kind of stupid.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236287)

Tell us how you really feel...

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236371)

Torturing people is a basic Christian moral now? I guess I don't get to church often enough.

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Insightful)

mythosaz (572040) | about a year ago | (#45236741)

Torture has been a staple of Christianity since at least 1252 when Pope Innocent IV* authorized its use by inquisitors.

[*I can't make these names up, kids.]

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236779)

Also, killing hundreds of thousands for their oil.

To be fair, both of those are pretty standard old testament behaviors.

But then Christians shouldn't really look to the old testament for guidance.

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

Barsteward (969998) | about a year ago | (#45236593)

sit down, you are talking out of the wrong hole

Re:Bragging about torture (5, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about a year ago | (#45236215)

Were? You think things are better? Our government is executing Americans overseas without a trial(even an unfair one) now.

It so happened that it was under Obama that whistle blowers are being persecuted

Both Manning and Snowden blew their whistle during the Obama years, and both are being punished by the same administration.

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about a year ago | (#45236251)

Our government is executing Americans overseas without a trial(even an unfair one) now.

I see you've never heard of trial by combat. Of course, the Hellfire missiles make it just a tiny little bit one-sided...

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236253)

Sometimes Americans sound really arrogant. I think you meant to say, that your government is killing humans overseas without a trial.
If they are Americans or not shouldnt matter to the point...

Re:Bragging about torture (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236863)

It's unconstitutional to kill Americans without a trial. It's only unfortunate to kill non Americans without a trial.

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | about a year ago | (#45236277)

Were? You think things are better? Our government is executing Americans overseas without a trial(even an unfair one) now.

There's a lesson to be learned from this exchange in the movie Unforgiven [wikipedia.org] and, think what you will of me, I don't believe these overseas Americans of which you speak have learned it:

  • Little Bill Daggett: Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!
  • Will Munny: Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend.

Re:Bragging about torture (2)

evil_aaronm (671521) | about a year ago | (#45236587)

Are our "inalienable" rights suddenly "alienable" because we're overseas?

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

fahrbot-bot (874524) | about a year ago | (#45236843)

Are our "inalienable" rights suddenly "alienable" because we're overseas?

If someone turns their back on what another has to offer, should the offer remain? Besides, I'm pretty sure our "inalienable" rights don't include a trial; that is granted by the Constitution/Bill of Rights... If you mean "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" - as stated in the Declaration of Independence - then I would ask when do those rights of the one supersede those same rights of the many?

It may be arguable whether killing overseas Americans acting with enemy combatants is wrong/acceptable, but I won't weep for them. They made their choice, and have to live and/or die by the consequences - live/die by the sword. (You know, that "personal responsibility" stuff Conservatives are always ranting about.)

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236617)

Were? You think things are better? Our government is executing Americans overseas without a trial(even an unfair one) now.

There's a lesson to be learned from this exchange in the movie Unforgiven [wikipedia.org] and, think what you will of me, I don't believe these overseas Americans of which you speak have learned it:

  • Little Bill Daggett: Well, sir, you are a cowardly son of a bitch! You just shot an unarmed man!
  • Will Munny: Well, he should have armed himself if he's going to decorate his saloon with my friend.

I would assume (having not seen it) that in that movie, the character of Will Munny personally took the shot with his own hand - had the "unarmed man" been armed, he would've had a chance to defend himself.

That however wouldn't apply to the case of your own citizens being murdered by the military, because they had a large explosive device directed towards them by a drone a few miles away... If your politicians had the balls to carry out their illegal executions with their own hands then your little lesson may mean a lot more.

Re:Bragging about torture (2)

tapspace (2368622) | about a year ago | (#45236291)

It's pretty hard to choose a dog in the fight of torturing vs execution without trial. They're both morally heinous. There is no other word. One thing the US used to have was a moral imperative in its actions. We need that back. Moral outrage.

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about a year ago | (#45236493)

Were? You think things are better? Our government is executing Americans overseas without a trial(even an unfair one) now.

Do you think that's new? Many people forget that the US Federal government has killed Americans inside the US(!) that were in the exact same legal status of men like Anwar al-Awlaki [go.com] , famous for his broadcasts [youtube.com] . And it should be noted that the Federal government did it without arrest, charge, trial, conviction, sentence, or appeal. One of those incidents, in which the US government shot dead American citizens without trial in the same way they did al-Awlaki, and for much the same reason, is commerated here [youtube.com] .

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236115)

Yeah, I forgot Obama closed Gitmo right?

FYI: In regards to torture; nothing has changed.

Re:Bragging about torture (4, Informative)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about a year ago | (#45236153)

Obama ordered Gitmo closed on his first day in office. Congress overruled him.

Re:Bragging about torture (2, Informative)

stox (131684) | about a year ago | (#45236249)

Please don't confuse our dear friend with facts, they get in the way of perfectly good arguments.

Re:Bragging about torture (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236259)

Nobody said it would be easy, especially in the current political climate. He certainly didn't put up much of a fight. Maybe he could put in 1/100th of the effort he did into passing Obamacare into getting Guantanamo closed. You know, actually do something to earn that Nobel Peace Prize he got.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236423)

So he can attack other nations without a Declaration of War from Congress, but he move prisoner's from a military base? Seems like he didn't try very hard.

Re:Bragging about torture (4, Informative)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about a year ago | (#45236575)

The President is the Commander in Chief of the military. But he can't spend a dollar that hasn't been budgeted by Congress.

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236425)

meh meh meh. ..you're telling me he can order people to be killed without asking congress but can't use executive powers to do what he said he would do? I mean, what the fuck would the congress do - fire him? he can order the military around as he likes - even order jet strikes, drone strikes, assault teams into territory they have no authority on(technically that's _war_) - but can't order the military to move a fucking camp a few hundred kilometers?

in the end he didn't want to touch the arrangement that is gitmo because if it were to be closed, they would have to reconcile with the fact that it's against the spirit of the law and even the letter and if they bring the people to the continent then their stupid loophole games break down completely. that is why he gave up on it.

the real problem is that americans aren't lynching people who brag about black operations and secret extrajudical treatments. I guess they like their spy shit too much. some representative democracy that is then.. stuck on the frontier times.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236139)

I'm still waiting for Obama to close Guantanamo like he promised. Any day now I'm sure.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236203)

Lose the "Bush." Obama's cool with committing war crimes (double-tap strikes) as standard operating procedure; he's mostly likely cool with torture, too.

Re:Bragging about torture (4, Insightful)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about a year ago | (#45236211)

I sometimes forget how bad things were.

Not sure things got better. We basically flipped the sh#t sandwich over and are eating it from the other side now.

Re:Bragging about torture (1)

Stormy Dragon (800799) | about a year ago | (#45236241)

Except he was also a Clinton official and an Obama official.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236325)

Shhh. You will upset a liberal with your "facts".

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236341)

How bad tings were? Have you looked at what is going on now? Things have only gotten worse. But yet some how everything is Bush's fault. Come on people wake up.

Re:Bragging about torture (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236571)

Wow. Just wow. Another flipping liberal with the blinders on to the world he's currently in because his boy's in office.
 
No wonder there can be no real change. Things that you would probably screaming bloody murder about during the Bush administration are now in the open and ten times worse but lemmings like you sit tight lipped.
 
Just remember "how bad things were" during the next administration (Democrat of Republican) and remember that your silence was your consent. Just keep your head in the sand. When they come for you it might not hurt as much.

The art of the leak (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45235919)

Information warfare.

Re:The art of the leak (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236007)

I was all set to be outraged, and then I ROFL'd. I gotta give Matzzie props for being sensibly discreet about the call's contents, and I also gotta give the General props for having a sense of humor about the whole thing.

Good game on both sides. Thanks to both of you for the entertainment.

This might help the situation (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45235969)

This might help the situation. If government officials were subjected to the same scruitny and privacy violations the rest of the have-nots suffer, we might be able to straighten this train wreck of a country out.

Re:This might help the situation (5, Informative)

ak3ldama (554026) | about a year ago | (#45236129)

This is not a privacy violation. He did this outside his home, in public. He has no expectation of privacy. Crow.

I think we should "legal term" this guy (1)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | about a year ago | (#45235971)

I bet it'll change his outlook.

Re:I think we should "legal term" this guy (1)

_UnderTow_ (86073) | about a year ago | (#45236179)

I was wondering the same thing. I wonder how fast his position on waterboarding would change if he was subjected to it for a while.

That makes no sense. (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236689)

His approval of waterboarding is specific to a context. It is done to enemies of his government, generally ones who are not themselves aristocrats.

He is vehemently opposed to government officials being waterboarded (his for sure, and probably rival governments as well). He would consider that an egregious offence against propriety to do such a thing.

Waterboarding him will not change his position one bit. He knows it is horrible, and that is exactly what he likes about it. That is also why he thinks it is appropriate for them but not us.

If he was suddenly stripped of power, permanently, and put in a position where he might be randomly water boarded by the authority above him, you can bet your bottom dollar he would advocate against it. But THAT will never happen, so his position will never change.

Obama just summarily executes people (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45235973)

Including US citizens.

But he doesn't waterboard them. Woo hoo.

Fascinating. (5, Informative)

Obfuscant (592200) | about a year ago | (#45236031)

Of course, it would be worth a lot more if we got more than someone's probably biased interpretation of one side of a phone call. Like, actual quotes would be a lot better. Even then, who knows what the questions were.

Re:Fascinating. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236221)

Well.. the reporter does. The reporter can release all of the quests and answers without naming Hayden as the source, and then we can see how/if it all lines up.

Re:Fascinating. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236265)

*quotes

Re:Fascinating. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236551)

That reporter would be an incredible idiot to demonstrate a connection at this point, consider that story axed.

Torture is indeed a legal term (1)

kruach aum (1934852) | about a year ago | (#45236035)

but that doesn't make its referent any less barbaric or useless. Also, the irony of this article is pretty.

Guys has some brass ones... (5, Interesting)

StickyWidget (741415) | about a year ago | (#45236039)

Even took a picture with him afterwards.

Re:Guys has some brass ones... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236195)

should have poured a cup of water on him

Re:Guys has some brass ones... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236557)

I'm sure that Hayden has other "legal terms" to use where he sees fit, like maybe in this case "assault with a deadly weapon".

Turnabout is Fair Play (5, Interesting)

Phoenix666 (184391) | about a year ago | (#45236131)

This is exactly what is required. We all need to out these people, all of them who work for the NSA and CIA, and subject them to constant surveillance, harassment, and ostracism. Perhaps an open source project to map and publicize the personnel of these agencies, as an exercise in democratic resistance to creeping tyranny. Heck, we can even enlist the assistance of kindly freedom-loving people around the world to ensure it will be impossible to shut down. The American government needs to understand the American people are onto them and deem them the enemies of freedom they are. Whether further, more stringent measures are required remains to be seen.

Re:Turnabout is Fair Play (1)

MetalliQaZ (539913) | about a year ago | (#45236303)

Perhaps an open source project to map and publicize the personnel of these agencies, as an exercise in democratic resistance to creeping tyranny.

They'd throw you into a black hole and you'd never be seen again.

Can you pay the lobbyists for that cause? (1)

wijnands (874114) | about a year ago | (#45236331)

From what I understand of your political system you'd need a lot of money to buy the lobbyists needed for this kind of change. Perhaps use one of those crowdfunded sites to get the funding?

Re:Can you pay the lobbyists for that cause? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236463)

That will go well until the last day where we are $1000 short of a revolution, and the money counter resets due to some access from 'unknown' parties.

Re:Turnabout is Fair Play (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236731)

I like this idea.Snoop on to them as they snoop onto us. Hack the planet!

I find treason beheadings a good thing (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236235)

Martha.

Isn't it a bit rude.... (1, Funny)

mark-t (151149) | about a year ago | (#45236317)

.... to actively listen in on other people's conversations, even if you *can* incidentally hear them?

Okay sure... it's not illegal, but really

And while I know that sometimes you can't help but overhear stuff that's happening in a nearby conversation, that still doesn't mean you have to pay enough attention to what you heard to actually do something about it.

Re:Isn't it a bit rude.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236417)

If the NSA will not stop obviously unconstitutional eavesdropping, they have no moral ground to challenge this behavior.

Re:Isn't it a bit rude.... (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year ago | (#45236455)

Is that a problem? "Politeness" is a social virtue we cultivate to make our interactions with others smoother and more pleasant, particularly the 'others' who are too distant for friendship but close enough that interaction is necessary. It isn't some sort of iron law. When dealing with someone who is both of considerable public interest and wouldn't deserve to be spit upon if he were on fire, why would you consider it?

Re:Isn't it a bit rude.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236531)

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOSSHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Re:Isn't it a bit rude.... (5, Insightful)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#45236647)

to actively listen in on other people's conversations, even if you *can* incidentally hear them?

You know, if you're a former security official sitting on a train discussing this kind of stuff in the clear -- rude has ceased to apply.

It's not about privacy and politeness -- it's about being an epic asshole discussing things you shouldn't be discussing on a train with other people listening.

And if you're someone who has called torture 'a legal term', you should probably be subjected to it yourself. People who sit behind desks and play semantic games about what constitutes torture are just thugs with official badges.

In fact, those people could be called war criminals in some contexts.

Re:Isn't it a bit rude.... (5, Interesting)

pitchpipe (708843) | about a year ago | (#45236659)

Isn't it a bit rude to actively listen in on other people's conversations, even if you *can* incidentally hear them?

Congratulations! You are now starting to understand the problem of indiscriminate surveillance.

On a side note: if Hayden has nothing to hide, he should be fine with people listening in to his conversations, right?

How the heck ... (3, Interesting)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#45236321)

How the heck does a former NSA director come to be talking about such things in public?

It's like fight club, you don't talk about it in front of other people.

I should think sitting on a train conducting this interview would be an epic breach of both his secrecy agreements, and his common sense.

Re:How the heck ... (4, Insightful)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about a year ago | (#45236491)

Isn't it entirely reasonable for Hayden to have grown a sense of arrogant impunity almost large enough to have its own event horizon?

To have had his career, and walked away scot-free and with a chest full of medals, if that doesn't tell you that you are untouchable, you clearly fail at empiricism...

Re:How the heck ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236797)

I'm starting to think that they leaks are purposeful. Maybe the internet is just growing too fast for them to monitor and target dissidents. So instead, they took the strategy to chill speech by telling everyone all of their communications are being monitored and tracked, making people think twice about that blog post that speaks out against the govt.

Re:How the heck ... (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year ago | (#45236691)

Worth remembering that the only evidence is the guy who was tweeting. Who do you trust, the head of the NSA, or some guy who tweets? The answer is neither.

Re:How the heck ... (5, Informative)

gstoddart (321705) | about a year ago | (#45236853)

Worth remembering that the only evidence is the guy who was tweeting. Who do you trust, the head of the NSA, or some guy who tweets? The answer is neither.

Horseshit.

See, the fact that Hayden has actually responded to this and asserted the guy was a liberal activist [calgaryherald.com] who misunderstood him

Someone eventually tipped off Hayden, who finished a call, stood up and walked over to Matzzie.

"Would you like a real interview?" Hayden asked.

"I'm not a reporter," Matzzie replied.

"Everybody's a reporter," Hayden said.

The Post said the two then talked about the U.S. Constitution's s Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures, and NSA surveillance, and then Hayden posed for a photo with Matzzie.

Hayden told the Post later he wasn't disparaging Obama or his administration. Matzzie "got it terribly wrong," Hayden said, dismissing the tweets as an inaccurate "story from a liberal activist sitting two seats from me on the train hearing intermittent snatches of conversation."

"I didn't criticize the president," Hayden said. "I actually said these are very difficult issues. I said I had political guidance, too, that limited the things that I did when I was director of NSA. Now that political guidance (for current officials) is going to be more robust. It wasn't a criticism."

I trust the fact that it happened, I trust the fact that Hayden responded to it, and I don't trust Hayden at all. This is a guy who has claimed that torture was merely a legal definition which could be skirted around -- which in my books makes him a bit of a sleazebag.

Are you suggesting there is evidence this never happened? Or that the guy overhearing truly got it all wrong? People like this love to try to weasel on what they actually said and what it actually meant, but I find it much more plausible than "guy sitting on train makes up conversation between NSA former director and someone else".

farewell (1)

NikeHerc (694644) | about a year ago | (#45236327)

We bid you a fond farewell, fellow citizen, and will remember you long after you have been disappeared.

No fieldcraft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45236337)

It is shocking that this incompetent boob was in charge of anything at the CIA.

The passenger should have recorded it and then Hayden could have been prosecuted for leaking.
So far the only CIA employee prosecuted for leaks is the whistle blower who leaked about waterboarding.

this is not eavesdropping it's reporting (5, Informative)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about a year ago | (#45236347)

Reporting on how our government ignores our Rights under all the amendments in the Bill of Rights and the Geneva Conventions.

Everyone is a reporter now.

Everyone.

Hit Record.

Brin's Transparent Society (2)

PineHall (206441) | about a year ago | (#45236383)

I think we are moving toward a transparent society where privacy for all is minimal. Right now it is pretty one sided but I think openness and transparency for the government and large corporations will also happen. Technology will force them to open up. David Brin wrote a book called The Transparent Society [davidbrin.com] that talks about this.

Re:Brin's Transparent Society (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#45236461)

he could have gone to the toilet.

speaking in public is rude, but I guess the guy is pretty rude to begin with. and not only that but stupid too.

oh and guilty of talking shit about the system to reporters too, so why isn't he being held for treason?

Re:Brin's Transparent Society (1)

Capt James McCarthy (860294) | about a year ago | (#45236645)

he could have gone to the toilet.

speaking in public is rude, but I guess the guy is pretty rude to begin with. and not only that but stupid too.

oh and guilty of talking shit about the system to reporters too, so why isn't he being held for treason?

I don't think he works for the system anymore. And why not talk in the clear about his opinions. He's afforded his opinion is he not? Right or wrong, that is/was the beauty of the free speech thing we tried for a while...You could have an opinion.

Re:Brin's Transparent Society (1)

neo-mkrey (948389) | about a year ago | (#45236755)

"I think openness and transparency for the government and large corporations will also happen" -- what color is the sky in the universe you live in?

What do you have to hide? (1)

Matt Kuhns (2918029) | about a year ago | (#45236855)

What's the big deal, Mr. Hayden? "If you're not doing anything wrong, you don't have anything to hide," right? You aren't suddenly uncomfortable with this perpetual retort to privacy advocates, are you?
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