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Apple 27-inch iMac With Intel's Haswell Inside Tested

Unknown Lamer posted about 9 months ago | from the shinier-newer dept.

iMac 241

MojoKid writes "Apple's late 2013 edition iMacs are largely unchanged in external form, though they're upgraded in function with a revamped foundation that now pairs Intel's Haswell 4th Generation Core processors with NVIDIA's GeForce 700 Series graphics. The Cupertino company also outfitted these latest models with faster flash storage options, including support for PCI-E based storage, and 802.11ac Wi-Fi technology, all wrapped in a 21.5-inch (1920x1080) or 27-inch IPS displays with a 2560x1440 resolution. As configured, the 27-inch iMac reviewed here bolted through benchmarks with relative ease and posted especially solid figures in gaming tests, including a 3DMark 11 score of 3,068 in Windows 7 (via Boot Camp). Running Cinebench 11.5 in Mac OS X 10.9 Mavericks also helped showcase the CPU and GPU combination. Storage benchmarks weren't nearly as impressive though, for iMacs based on standard spinning media. For real IO throughput, it's advisable to go with Apple's Flash storage options."

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241 comments

Frosty Piss (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266399)

Bitches!

Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (0, Offtopic)

Hadlock (143607) | about 9 months ago | (#45266429)

News at 11.
 
Seriously how is this news?

Re:Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (-1, Troll)

Virtucon (127420) | about 9 months ago | (#45266501)

With crappy resolution considering it's a 27" display.

Re:Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266525)

Must be one of those cheap Korean monitors from ebay inside. They aren't bad though.

Re:Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (1)

davester666 (731373) | about 9 months ago | (#45266589)

because everyone else and their dog sells 27" monitors and AIO's with higher resolutions...

Re:Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (-1)

Virtucon (127420) | about 9 months ago | (#45267441)

It's more a piece of furniture than a functional system. Not much better than a tablet really since it's using a mobile graphics processor as well (GT775M). [apple.com] This isn't a powerhouse system but you're paying a premium for it, especially in the 27" model (MSRP $2000) for a system that's great for doing spreadsheets or word docs. You may as well spend your money on an HP 20" Rove [engadget.com] for half the cost and you get it to go with a touchscreen.

Re:Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (3, Informative)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 9 months ago | (#45267673)

It's more a piece of furniture than a functional system. Not much better than a tablet really since it's using a mobile graphics processor as well (GT775M). This isn't a powerhouse system but you're paying a premium for it, especially in the 27" model (MSRP $2000) for a system that's great for doing spreadsheets or word docs. You may as well spend your money on an HP 20" Rove for half the cost and you get it to go with a touchscreen.

That system that you recommend is a joke compared to the 21" iMac. It's a bit cheaper in price, and a lot cheaper in everything else. Comparing it to the 27" is plain ridiculous.

You say "it's not a powerhouse". One has 3.2 GHz quad core i5, the other a cheap 1.7 GHz dual core i3. Apple doesn't even put those into their cheapest laptops.

Re: Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266609)

You mad bro?
Which 27" aio has a better res?

TROLL!

Re:Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (4, Insightful)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 9 months ago | (#45267425)

With crappy resolution considering it's a 27" display.

Amazing how this gets modded up as "insightful" when there isn't actually anyone selling a 27" display at higher resolution, at least not at a price exceeding the price of the complete iMac.

Is "insightful" nowadays the same as "conforms to my baseless prejudices"?

Re:Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (2, Interesting)

dfghjk (711126) | about 9 months ago | (#45267573)

"Is "insightful" nowadays the same as "conforms to my baseless prejudices"?"

Not just nowadays.

Democratic moderation, in all its forms, only furthers tribalism. It exists due to laziness and the desire to play to people's egos. It is rarely used as "intended".

Re:Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266521)

So "fast shiny expensive" new high-end graphic cards from nVidia or AMD cannot be news items, can they?

Re:Fast shiny expensive thin computer is fast (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267413)

Fast?

Seriously 3000 3d marks? My 16month old computer that i paid $900 for does 9000 3d marks.

They are still damn overpriced (0, Flamebait)

metrix007 (200091) | about 9 months ago | (#45266459)

Let's let that dominate the discussion.

There's always some Apple fanboys (jo_ham, where you at?), who insist the machines are higher quality etc etc, but this is mainly nonsense.

They use almost the exact same components for PC's, and are ridiculous overpriced.

Not to mention the barriers to self-repair, amping up the cost over the lifetime of the machine.

The only value they have is in the aesthetics, or if you need OS X for some reason. Generally not worth the cost except to people who like to burn money.

The same people who buy a $100 burger in a restaurant that costs $12 to make, cause it costs $100.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (4, Interesting)

bemymonkey (1244086) | about 9 months ago | (#45266483)

It *is* pretty though. And that's what counts for many people... I'm currently sitting in front of three relatively cheap FullHD monitors hooked up to a monster PC with wired peripherals, a laptop, a pair of studio monitors, a small mixer, a mic preamp and a USB audio interface - lots of bang for my buck and it does a ton of shit that an iMac couldn't, but damn does it look cluttered. Some people just prefer a sleek all-in-one with brushed metal (no glossy fucking plastic like you'll find on many other all-in-ones) and wireless input devices...

Re:They are still damn overpriced (4, Interesting)

gordo3000 (785698) | about 9 months ago | (#45266657)

yes, but monitor quality is a huge difference. I have a cheaper 25**x 1440 display and a 27 inch mac display, and without the doubt, while the apple display cost about 300 dollars more, the quality of the is far superior (and the cheaper display is being driven by a much more powerful machine).

And if you work in a world where super high quality displays are in high demand, you pay up. there are other sellers of equivalent quality, but it turns out they price to within 5% of the apple display. I'm never certain where the talk of the apple tax comes from. For phones, mp3 players, monitors, and laptops I found them very competitively priced.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 9 months ago | (#45266787)

Check the cost of components on the apple store. Hard drives, memory. Official apple-endorsed upgrades are clearly overpriced.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (2)

gordo3000 (785698) | about 9 months ago | (#45267119)

agreed, but that is the exact same situation as any vendor. If I go to dell and try to buy a ram upgrade from them, it's super expensive. It's not a unique apple experience (at least for me). Anyways, I get my components from amazon for 1/4 the price and apple has never complained about non-apple sold parts in my computer when it goes in for work. So it hasn't caused me an issue yet.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267121)

Check out the prices in the Dell online store for replacement parts such as RAM, hard derives, etc. Well over priced and often older generations as well. I'm sure the others do it a as well.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (2, Insightful)

paulmacguyscott (3413525) | about 9 months ago | (#45266831)

The "Apple Tax" is totally outdated. Usually stated by people who haven't looked at Macs in more than a decade. If you build a machine spec for spec against a Mac prices are competitive. TCO for Windows is higher when you add in cost of antivirus, OS updates, and other software that just comes on the Mac. Why OS X? Unix under the hood and a nice OS. I have an imac with extra displays, mixer, studio monitors, all the goodies. The imac can do anything another PC can and then some. Some people just feel the need to be haters.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (1)

ameen.ross (2498000) | about 9 months ago | (#45266989)

You don't need to get an iMac to get a Unixy OS.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267205)

You do if you want your Unixy OS to work worth a damn. Oh, or, rather, work worth a damn w/o twisting thousands of hard to find knobs.
There.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (4, Insightful)

Geeky (90998) | about 9 months ago | (#45267471)

It's the best way to get a unix OS that can run commercial software. I need to use Lightroom and Photoshop. I prefer to use unix. I like a very high res screen. So the 27" iMac is perfect for my needs. YMMV.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (1)

somersault (912633) | about 9 months ago | (#45267631)

If the iMac doubled up as a standard monitor (ie without having to be actually running OSX to function as an external display), then it could be worth it.. it seems a bit of a waste to me to throw out such a nice display when you're getting a new desktop machine - or to be running two machines when you only need one.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (1)

ameen.ross (2498000) | about 9 months ago | (#45267693)

Good point, I have actually refused to exchange my good ol' 19 inch 1920*1440 CRT screen for a flat panel. Only since AMOLED desktop screens have arrived to the consumer market have I started looking out for an upgrade.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267035)

OS updates cost money with Windows? News to me. Antivirus costs money too? Shit what is that damn Microsoft security essentials doing on my computer. I didnt pay extra.

How about the cost of repairing or upgrading computers. I can repair/replace any component in my windows computer, can you do the same thing in your mac?

No, the prices are not competitive, but they have certainly done a good job convincing you that they are.

Posting Anon because I really dont feel like arguing with ifanbois this morning.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (3, Informative)

teg (97890) | about 9 months ago | (#45267249)

OS updates cost money with Windows? News to me.

An OS update is free with Windows, but an OS upgrade will cost you. On Mac, both kinds are free now.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267075)

If you think OS X is nice, you haven't looked at Macs in a decade.

Re: They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267449)

so fucking true... mac OS X is getting shittier and shittier every release, yet they fail to fix the most obvious things.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

tsa (15680) | about 9 months ago | (#45266495)

And what's wrong with buying something expensive because you have the money and you like it?

Re:They are still damn overpriced (2)

sydneyfong (410107) | about 9 months ago | (#45266571)

You know, bourgeoisie capitalism and all that shit.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267159)

is winshit such a must?

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

Gilmoure (18428) | about 9 months ago | (#45267553)

If you have Windows, you have to wear a proletariat cap and carry a card or something.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (5, Informative)

Camembert (2891457) | about 9 months ago | (#45266511)

Sour grapes, much? Why does it get so much on your nerves that other people may buy something that not only works well with little headaches but is also a lot prettier than most computers on the market?

I've left my ikea days long behind. Nowadays, when I buy something I want it to be good AND beautiful in my house. Yes it costs more than generic products, but I am happy with my previous gen iMac. And when whiners think that it costs too much, I won't lose sleep over it. My life quality is worth something.

Similarly two years ago I bought my non techy parents a Macbook Pro. Since then I've had to do almost no interventions, what a change compared to their previous Windows on HP experience. Their life is better and I sacrifice less time. IT's worth something for me.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266773)

I bought a mac pro in 2008, in the 3 years of applecare, I had to repair it 4 times (every time drag that heavy thing, and loose it for 3 days), just for burn out nvidia card (2x), broken power supply (3x) and not working motherboard. Two months after the 3 year period it broke again, and has been sitting somewhere now for the last 2 years doing nothing anymore (repair costs would be over 750 euro's). Doing it yourself is almost no option, different connectors and too much packed away. Everytime they repaired it, the put in again something from 2008. Same shitty nvidia card (almost no ventilation), same shitty power supply (makes too much noise).

I bought a new pc (just the parts and but it together), now 2,5 years ago. And it never has any problems. Makes a lot less noise, and is almost weightless in comparison.

I will never ever try such a shitty apple hardware again...

Re:They are still damn overpriced (2)

smash (1351) | about 9 months ago | (#45266797)

3 years ago I got my non-techy ex-GF to buy an MBA (2010 spec). About 12 months ago she ran out of SSD and needed help to relocate a few things to an external drive (60GB of raw photos on a 128GB SSD will do that). That is the sum total of maintenance that has been required, outside of automatic updates.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

magic maverick (2615475) | about 9 months ago | (#45267575)

So, is she your ex-GF because you got her a MBA? I would understand that. Macs, eww.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (4, Interesting)

Solandri (704621) | about 9 months ago | (#45267277)

I've left my ikea days long behind. Nowadays, when I buy something I want it to be good AND beautiful in my house. Yes it costs more than generic products, but I am happy with my previous gen iMac. And when whiners think that it costs too much, I won't lose sleep over it. My life quality is worth something.

It was a bigger issue 7-10 years ago when keeping a computer for longer than 3-4 years was, quite frankly, stupid. Build quality mattered less, and it was silly to pay extra for good looks because if you didn't replace your computer by year 3 and definitely by year 5, it was too slow to run any modern software. Heck, I occasionally run across a person using a computer from back then, and I implore them to upgrade because the extra electricity they burn in 2-3 years will be enough to pay for the new computer.

Now that even low-end CPUs are "fast enough" for most people, keeping a computer for 5-7 years is a real possibility. That means paying an extra $500 for good looks or better build quality is cheaper because it'll be amortized over 6 years instead of 3 years.

At least that's the viewpoint of the casual user. The hard core computer geek who insists on state of the art is probably still on a 3 year upgrade cycle. So for him, dropping an extra $500 for good looks or better build quality is still an extravagance.

Similarly two years ago I bought my non techy parents a Macbook Pro. Since then I've had to do almost no interventions, what a change compared to their previous Windows on HP experience. Their life is better and I sacrifice less time. IT's worth something for me.

5 years ago I bought my non-techy dad a Lenovo Thinkpad. Since then I've had to do almost no interventions. Anecdotes are a dime a dozen.

And incidentally, Apple doesn't make the Macbooks. They're made by Quanta [wikipedia.org] - they're the ODM (original design manufacturer) that Apple uses. Normally the ODM also designs the laptop while the vendor just provides the specs and requirements, so I'm not even sure if Apple even designs the Macbooks.

Quanta also makes most of HP's laptops.

That's the dirty little secret about the laptop industry - the vast majority of laptops aren't made by the brand they're sold under. So it's pointless arguing build quality or reliability based on brand name. To figure out some sort of correlation, you have to know which ODM made which particular model.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 9 months ago | (#45267681)

And incidentally, Apple doesn't make the Macbooks. They're made by Quanta [wikipedia.org] - they're the ODM (original design manufacturer) that Apple uses. Normally the ODM also designs the laptop while the vendor just provides the specs and requirements, so I'm not even sure if Apple even designs the Macbooks.

Are you sure about that? So what you are saying is that Quanta designed the all aluminum chassis of the MacBook Pros and the thinness of the Air?

That's the dirty little secret about the laptop industry - the vast majority of laptops aren't made by the brand they're sold under. So it's pointless arguing build quality or reliability based on brand name. To figure out some sort of correlation, you have to know which ODM made which particular model.

So there's not difference between laptops at all? If you open up every laptop, they all look alike? They all source the exact same parts? One manufacturer cannot request Quanta to use different parts. Looking at Dell you can tell that's not true. Their business laptops are better built than their consumer line and that's within a company.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (-1, Troll)

sydneyfong (410107) | about 9 months ago | (#45266553)

The only alternative to burning money is to burn time.

- Linux: Expect around 2-3 days of hunting for audio and display drivers and tweaking with the configs until it works.
- Windows: Expect around 2-3 days of trying to clean your system of malware and converting your old machine settings to the new one. (or just accept that you have to fight daily battles against the OS to be productive with the computer)

I'm currently using a Linux machine at home. Yet the thought of spending a day or two messing with the OS instead of doing something more interesting/productive makes me dread my next computer hardware upgrade. I had more time on my hands back when I bought my current machine.

It really depends on whether you really want to do self-repair. I have a hard disk with bad sectors, and I'm procrastinating to fix it (running on backup drives now), even though I could easily spend an afternoon to buy a new disk and migrate the data over.

Life is short. Time is precious. To each their own :-/

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266579)

Clutter, yes. Time-sink? Funny how I never seem to have these kinds of problems with my linux boxen. I must be pretty lucky.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

smash (1351) | about 9 months ago | (#45266757)

Maybe you're not tracking it.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266999)

Or maybe he just installs whatever dist that has what he needs and doesn't spend days messing around with it just because he can.
In my experience most of the timesink from Linux is self inflicted and the largest reason it doesn't happen as much on other operating systems is because they don't let you change everything.

If you take the windows approach of just installing and then use it it will work just fine. If you want the latest greatest you can still do the windows way and re-install every year or the apple approach and buy a new computer every year.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

elfprince13 (1521333) | about 9 months ago | (#45267469)

The Apple approach is to buy a new phone every year. I know of no Apple users who've kept their Macs for less than 5 years (unless they dropped it down the stairs or let it soak in a coffee hot-tub). I've used plenty that were in the 8-10 range, and they were still kicking along just fine.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (2)

dbIII (701233) | about 9 months ago | (#45266587)

Linux: Expect around 2-3 days of hunting for audio and display drivers and tweaking with the configs until it works

Cool! So you were using linux in 1998! It's good to see somebody that gave it a go way back then but it's changed somewhat over the last decade and a bit.

Now it's only MS Windows where you have to hunt around the net for drivers if you've lost your install CD.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266685)

Now it's only MS Windows where you have to hunt around the net for drivers if you've lost your install CD.

Wow! Still using Windows XP, are you? You're really on the cutting edge of technology.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

Jody Bruchon (3404363) | about 9 months ago | (#45267697)

Windows up to 7 don't do the best job of automatically finding drivers. Windows 8 seems to fare better, but it's not worth the brain-dead UI design of 8 to have better automatic driver-finding capabilities. Driver installs are a one-shot deal per reinstall, and complaining about them is fairly ridiculous. People spend more time trying to learn pointers in C than they do finding an Elantech touchpad driver.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

smash (1351) | about 9 months ago | (#45266761)

Funny how my WIFI card i bought last month with Linux support on the box breaks every kernel upgrade because i need to recompile the driver from source (Ubuntu doesn't do it automatically) and had to spend 4 hours hunting over the internet for patches to the supplied source driver because it was for kernel 2.6 only. It's an Asus PCE-N53 for those playing at home.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about 9 months ago | (#45266811)

Don't post real world examples like that here. You'll only be described as an idiot/shill/computer illiterate caveman.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267037)

So... you trusted the manufacturer to not lie to you *and* are too incompetent to properly set up DKMS.
In other news, I have a $3k printer here that "supports" OSX ... except the driver won't work on anything newer than 10.6.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267481)

but it said printer supports OS X... not that OS X supports the printer.

Smash (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 9 months ago | (#45267303)

Funny how my WIFI card i bought last month with Linux support on the box breaks every kernel upgrade

Lets get this right your prepared to argue the massive costs of $2000 for an iMac...but can't buy a $20 USB dongle that works. Ironically I have range of dongles that don't work on Vista+. Wireless under Linux is now second to none. Would you like me to give you a list :)

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

sydneyfong (410107) | about 9 months ago | (#45267027)

In 1998 you spent two weeks to get it half working if there's actually a driver for your hardware -- or two months to write the damn driver yourself. These days you spend 2-3 days to find, install and config the latest kernel and drivers, because your 6 month old distro release (using a year old kernel) probably won't have the drivers for your newer hardware.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

dbIII (701233) | about 9 months ago | (#45267117)

Look - the above was a polite alternative to calling you a lying sack of shit with a fanboy agenda. I suggest you leave it as it is instead of compounding it with more stupid lies that backfire and make it look as if you've never heard of google.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

teg (97890) | about 9 months ago | (#45267261)

Linux: Expect around 2-3 days of hunting for audio and display drivers and tweaking with the configs until it works

Cool! So you were using linux in 1998! It's good to see somebody that gave it a go way back then but it's changed somewhat over the last decade and a bit. Now it's only MS Windows where you have to hunt around the net for drivers if you've lost your install CD.

In '98, it wasn't as much spending 2-3 days for display drivers as spending that (and more) time upfront researching and buying the right components. Of course, afterwards you spent far more than that tweaking the configuration, compiling your own kernels etc. to eek out as much of the performance as possible. It was both fun and educational :) That said, there is something to be said for "unwrap, plug in, turn on - done"-Macs.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266781)

those 2-3 days I get back, everytime I needed to bring that shit to applecare. Repairing a power supply costs me 15 min. and I can choose my self.

Repairing an apple power supply (mac pro), costs me back pain, and 3-4 days lose of my pc.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267533)

Back pain? Wow. A body at rest tends to stay at rest.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266583)

Lol... anti-fan-boy :)

It's more like buying a $20 burger in a restaurant that costs $12 to make, but tastes great and won't get you sick. Probably you've never touched Apple hardware (and that's fine), but just to let you know: you don't know what you're talking about.

Have a nice day.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (5, Interesting)

fatphil (181876) | about 9 months ago | (#45266683)

As someone who has bought a real DEC Alpha workstation for serious work, and who was given a high-end Mac, and has used so-called high-end pee-cees (branded HP and Dell boxes), but who has mostly owned cheap-arse no-name budget pee-cees, I can assure you that build quality was always directly related to the price. The Alpha was a bomb-proof brick, with beatiful damping that made it not even hum or whirr at all. The Mac was specced with enough cooling for worst-case and partitioned internally such that the components that were temperature sensitive got the lions share of the airflow, a very clever design. The HPs had the cooling, but sounded like a helicopter the whole time - they had over-specced cooling, but with braindead internal sensors, shitty bearings, and no damping. Dell was just an overpriced but lame HP-wannabee. And we all know how shitty shitty PCs are. Look at the benchmarks, and they were all pretty similar (the Alpha clearly blew any intel machines out of the water at the time for floating point stuff, but that didn't last for more than a few years), but there was an entire order of magnitude, between the most expensive and the cheapest. However, the build quality - which is not just the components, but has a purely mechanical aspect - was just as broad in range. People like you keep saying "but it's the same RAM, the same HDD, the same optical drive, the same processor, ...", but you completely overlook build quality. I'm no Apple fan-boi - I run linux on the Mac that Apple gave me (I was sworn into not insulting them as part of the agreement, which did mean I had to bite my lip a few times, as I hate OSX) - but I did, and still do, like their build quality. I also liked their choice of CPU - the POWER architecture - sigh.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (3, Insightful)

smash (1351) | about 9 months ago | (#45266765)

Exactly. Build quality != component spec. Anyone who has opened up a Mac or other high end hardware and compared to home built PC from newegg knows this.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 9 months ago | (#45267711)

I'm no Apple fan-boi - I run linux on the Mac that Apple gave me (I was sworn into not insulting them as part of the agreement, which did mean I had to bite my lip a few times, as I hate OSX) - but I did, and still do, like their build quality. I also liked their choice of CPU - the POWER architecture - sigh.

The problem with your idea is that Apple hasn't actually had superior build quality since the Macintosh II series. They're just the same Foxconn-built PC motherboards as everyone else's, with some slightly different components. They have slightly better cases. Big whoop. And POWER is gone, and it was a dumb idea to begin with. It was only because Apple couldn't figure out how to emulate 68k on x86, which others were already doing, and doing well.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

hobarrera (2008506) | about 9 months ago | (#45266809)

Actually, as of 2013, Apple computers are generally cheaper than other companie's equivalents.
I know that's why I got my MBA 2013.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

cyber-vandal (148830) | about 9 months ago | (#45267181)

However it's a bit hard to get an Apple laptop for £400, that's why I got my Dell.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (2)

teg (97890) | about 9 months ago | (#45267271)

However it's a bit hard to get an Apple laptop for £400, that's why I got my Dell.

Indeed. Apple competes well in the segments they are, but they don't cover every segment. Cheap laptops, servers, gaming machines are just three of the segments they just aren't targeting.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (1)

zequav (2700007) | about 9 months ago | (#45267245)

This. I was trying to buy a <2kg, >=full hd, haswell laptop a week ago. My only options in Spain were: i) Sony Vaio Pro: 1370€, noisy, bad wifi (according to reviews) ii) Asus Zenbook Infinity: good, but >1750€!! iii) Macbook Pro 2013: Good, 1400€ (the 8GB version). The decision was clear.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266913)

They use almost the exact same components for PC's, and are ridiculous overpriced.

Products are priced according to their market value, not production costs.

The only value they have is in the aesthetics, or if you need OS X for some reason. Generally not worth the cost except to people who like to burn money.

You underestimate the value of subjective experience, and aesthetics is very expensive.

The same people who buy a $100 burger in a restaurant that costs $12 to make, cause it costs $100.

Almost every person i know, owns one Apple product or more, and none of them would buy a $100 dollar burger.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (3, Insightful)

RedBear (207369) | about 9 months ago | (#45266975)

Let's let that dominate the discussion.

There's always some Apple fanboys (jo_ham, where you at?), who insist the machines are higher quality etc etc, but this is mainly nonsense.

They use almost the exact same components for PC's, and are ridiculous overpriced.

Not to mention the barriers to self-repair, amping up the cost over the lifetime of the machine.

The only value they have is in the aesthetics, or if you need OS X for some reason. Generally not worth the cost except to people who like to burn money.

The same people who buy a $100 burger in a restaurant that costs $12 to make, cause it costs $100.

Wow. Full of yourself much? You just called tens of millions of people retards for daring to buy a computer brand you don't approve of.

It is an oversimplification to simply state that Apple uses many of the same components as PCs. They do, but they also have a lot of custom engineering that goes into their products, good quality control, and their demonstrably lower incidence of returns and repairs puts the lie to your idea that there is no measureable difference between Macs and PCs just because they contain some of the same components. Apple has not been at the top of all the consumer satisfaction and quality surveys for the last decade merely because people like the company logo.

You are welcome to your own opinion about the relative worth of any particular brand of computers, but get your facts straight or you just make yourself look silly and hateful. Just because other people have different criteria for buying computers does not make them all idiots buying $100 burgers. Apple's machines are more like the $18 burger from a local restaurant with great ambiance versus a $8 burger from a national chain restaurant with fluorescent lighting and plastic bench seating. Priced higher, perhaps even overpriced, but it all depends on your criteria and what you're looking for. But pretending there is no value in paying a bit more for nice ambiance is idiocy. The burger and the dining experience are both part of the price.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267123)

demonstrably lower incidence of returns and repairs?

Source please. In fact I cannot think of a single person in my field of work (that I know) that would recommend a Mac over a PC due to the fact that you have to take them to a Mac certified tech if the darn thing burps.

Intel (0)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 9 months ago | (#45267285)

It is an oversimplification to simply state that Apple uses many of the same components as PCs.

Apple *computers* use exactly the same hardware APU;Memory and Screen as I can get by walking into a high street the fact that they wrap it as an non-upgradeable electronics package to justify the price is insulting. Their selling point is the brand and the software...and they are worth nothing to me...and their sales are dropping.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267557)

Sounds exactly like my argument regarding Toyota vs Lexus. I have an ES350, which a lot of people call a Camry.

Have you test driven a Camry (PC) and then an ES350 (Mac)? Maybe it's not for everyone, but there IS a difference, from the car itself to the service you get post-sale.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267705)

It is an oversimplification to simply state that Apple uses many of the same components as PCs. They do, but they also have a lot of custom engineering that goes into their products, good quality control, and their demonstrably lower incidence of returns and repairs puts the lie to your idea that there is no measureable difference between Macs and PCs just because they contain some of the same components.

Yes, components they solder into place so you can't upgrade or replace them. Not to mention the proprietary cables and assorted bullshit accessories. That kind of NIGGER mentality is at the core of Apple. The fact that stupid motherfuckers like you are willing to bed over and get fucked by such a company is the reason they are so successful. Nothing to do with the quality of what they build.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Freultwah (739055) | about 9 months ago | (#45267157)

Congrats! By using ‘overpriced’ and ‘fanboi’ (which you misspelled) in adjacent paragraphs, you have won the Mac Discussion Bullshit Bingo.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267213)

Let's let that dominate the discussion.

There's always some Apple fanboys (jo_ham, where you at?), who insist the machines are higher quality etc etc, but this is mainly nonsense.

They use almost the exact same components for PC's, and are ridiculous overpriced.

Not to mention the barriers to self-repair, amping up the cost over the lifetime of the machine.

The only value they have is in the aesthetics, or if you need OS X for some reason. Generally not worth the cost except to people who like to burn money.

The same people who buy a $100 burger in a restaurant that costs $12 to make, cause it costs $100.

Ask the person who's identity was stolen due to their involuntary participation in a Windows botnet to discuss the true cost of that "bargain" $399 laptop running the "Everybody Does It" OS.

They're easy to find. They work at the Apple store now.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267345)

So...
can you point me to the cheaper vendor that offer PCI-E attached storage for cheap? What about getting six lightpeak ports? I guess I only need three (monitors, storage). Hrm... No one else even bothers offering that? I GUESS I'LL JUST BITCH ABOUT THE PRICE HURR HURR HURR.

Re:They are still damn overpriced (5, Informative)

Arkham (10779) | about 9 months ago | (#45267667)

Let's let that dominate the discussion.

There's always some Apple fanboys (jo_ham, where you at?), who insist the machines are higher quality etc etc, but this is mainly nonsense.

They use almost the exact same components for PC's, and are ridiculous overpriced.

Not to mention the barriers to self-repair, amping up the cost over the lifetime of the machine.

The only value they have is in the aesthetics, or if you need OS X for some reason. Generally not worth the cost except to people who like to burn money.

The same people who buy a $100 burger in a restaurant that costs $12 to make, cause it costs $100.

  1. I've got a degree in computer engineering. I have designed and built CPUs and motherboards. I don't repair my own computers. It's not worth my time.
  2. Aesthetics are important. Anyone who hasn't realized this is living in the past. There's a reason that Apple is the most valuable company in the world. The real genius in Apple's products isn't the performance and never has been; it's the fusion of design, style, and functionality.
  3. Need OS X for some reason? How about because it's the best OS on the market for nearly everyone? Linux is a great dev OS, but my mother could never use it. Windows is an adequate OS, and had gotten better with Windows 7, but it's still far, far more obtuse than OS X, and it's less powerful for a power user with a UNIX background too.
  4. A Mac is not a $100 burger. It's the $10 burger that's clearly better than the cheaper Big Mac. Both will fill you up, but there's no question in my mind which one I want to eat. You get what you pay for.

8 measly GB of RAM. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266491)

Why are they so damn cheap they can't pop 2 x 8 GB in these things?

Re:8 measly GB of RAM. (1)

Virtucon (127420) | about 9 months ago | (#45266503)

No, it would mess up the packaging and probably introduce an unsightly bulge somewhere.

Re: 8 measly GB of RAM. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266641)

You can. Just pay a little bit more.
Where is the problem?

Are you one of those cheapskates that expects to pay cattle class but gets upgraded to first class for free? Or a bigger engine in your car for free? Or free food and bigger portions for free in a restaurant?

You get what you pay for. It's that simple. Doubling the RAM might costs just 100 bucks extra. Multiplied by 5 million Macs and you suddenly asks a company to throw away half a billion.

Tl;dr : nonsense.

Re: 8 measly GB of RAM. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267139)

Your post is nonsense. In fact it is downright laughable. Why would an extra 4 GB of ram cost 100 dollars? You can get 2 x 4GB of ram on newegg for like 60 bucks. You mac fanbois do use regular DDR3 dont you?

Re: 8 measly GB of RAM. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267153)

and most people do just that. So your problem is?

The New MacPro uses ECC DIMMS. Because of the error correction they are more expensive mostly because of the lower demand for them. AFAIK, this is a requirement when using XEON CPU's.

Re: 8 measly GB of RAM. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267663)

The New MacPro uses ECC DIMMS. Because of the error correction they are more expensive mostly because of the lower demand for them.

Correct.

AFAIK, this is a requirement when using XEON CPU's.

Wrong.
Xeons (at least E3, E5, E3v2, E5v2, E3v3) can run fine with non-ECC ram. It's up to the board BIOS to allow that or not.

But if you don't need ECC... why the hell did you buy a xeon in the first place?

Apple Cheap (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 9 months ago | (#45267255)

Are you one of those cheapskates ...

No its Apple that is the cheapskate.

If people pay more, it must be worth it to them (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266673)

I spend a lot of my life sitting in front of my computer. Even if I pay $500 more for a nicer-looking machine, every five years, I'm paying $2 a week for nicer working conditions. I spend more than that for coffee.

Hire Purchase. (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 9 months ago | (#45267253)

I spend a lot of my life sitting in front of my computer. Even if I pay $500 more for a nicer-looking machine, every five years, I'm paying $2 a week for nicer working conditions. I spend more than that for coffee.

No they are paring for an inferior hardware, that is upgradable so won't last five years...applying a salesman's hire purchase sell won't work especially when the competitors are $200 tablets. I drink tea :)

First hand experience (5, Informative)

teg (97890) | about 9 months ago | (#45266677)

I bought one - 27 inch, with all available upgrades except for the max memory. Memory is user replaceable, and it's cheaper to buy it elsewhere. Here are my impressions

  • Unpacking it and setting it up is, as always, a breeze. Take off the top lid, lift the surprisingly light computer to a desk, put in the power chord. Done. Initial setup of the computer is then done in a minute.
  • Restoring my user profile from a time machine hard drive, to get applications, user data etc. was fast and smooth
  • The high res screen is gorgeous. It's also very well calibrated out of the box - my calibration hardware hardly changed anything this time around. Compared to earlier iMacs -and most other screens today - there are no reflections, even though it is glossy.
  • Fusion drive [arstechnica.com] - Apple's automated tiering solution - works very well. For most practical purposes, it worked just as well as my last SSD-based iMac - but this time, I don't have to do manual file management of SSD vs. HD.
  • The computer is noiseless
  • Performance is good (photo and movie editing), but that's obviously to be expected. My Linux VMs are very happy too.
  • The games I tried work well on high settings, but the Witcher 1 doesn't work at all - first, a bug causes it to believe that the system doesn't meet minimum requirements (the older, slower one did). Some editing of config files later, it starts - but videos don't display (sound only) and the 3D display have all objects except text rendered black.
  • While the sound coming out of the chassis sound surprisingly good, you really want separate speakers or good headphones if you are listening to music while you work.

Re:First hand experience (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266839)

And it still costs a fortune.

Re:First hand experience (3, Insightful)

smash (1351) | about 9 months ago | (#45266919)

Price up a PC based system including monitor with equivalent resolution, ssd caching, etc. Now find that spec in an all in one.

Price not an Object? (1, Flamebait)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 9 months ago | (#45267243)

Price up a PC based system including monitor with equivalent resolution, ssd caching, etc. Now find that spec in an all in one.

Moderation has modded down an 100% factual comment regarding Apple on Price. Ignoring that Apples PC continuing slump in sales because of this very fact. The bottom line is this iMac is a low resolution, small slow, and fast memory with the usual proprietary connection crap(Ironically lower specification than my old PC). The fact that it is non-upgradable as a justification is stupid; I personally plan throwing a high resolution 29" monitor or A Discrete graphics card or Another hard drive in...Depending on whether Linux gets android compatibility; or My games are struggling a little; Or I run out of space on my raid Array :). Ironically phone has equivalent resolution, ssd cashing etc.

Apple sell standard components in an attractive package at a massive mark up. If Monopolists like Intel and Microsoft weren't sitting on their 60% gross profits too it would look more obscene; Post PC...hardly just sick of being gouged on price. The bottom line is "Apple Still Costs A Fortune"

Re:Price not an Object? (1)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 9 months ago | (#45267445)

Moderation has modded down an 100% factual comment regarding Apple on Price. Ignoring that Apples PC continuing slump in sales because of this very fact.

According to Apple's earnings release, Mac market share among PC sales has been increasing in 29 of the 30 last quarters. In worldwide computer sales, they are around number six in unit sales, about number two in revenue, and clear leader with nobody anywhere near in profits.

Show Me (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 9 months ago | (#45267527)

According to Apple's earnings release, Mac market share among PC sales has been increasing in 29 of the 30 last quarters.

http://investor.apple.com/results.cfm [apple.com] These are Apple Earning Releases *Show Me* The only information is the "The Company sold 4.6 million Macs, compared to 4.9 million in the year-ago quarter." down 7% That is as I said *another drop in sales* The only increase has come from Chrome/Android/Linux.

The fact that you are going back to a Apple makes lots of money, for a shareholder like yourself that might make sense but its shitty for customers.

Re:Show Me (1)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 9 months ago | (#45267605)

The fact that you are going back to a Apple makes lots of money, for a shareholder like yourself that might make sense but its shitty for customers.

If you want to ignore the fact that PC sales are slumping for all manufacturers, go ahead. Unfortunately here people have some common sense.

Re:Show Me (1)

gnasher719 (869701) | about 9 months ago | (#45267703)

If you want to ignore the fact that PC sales are slumping for all manufacturers, go ahead. Unfortunately here people have some common sense.

And most people know that most of that slump is due to Apple selling iPads. So unlike everyone else, Apple isn't that sad about it. Because of iPad sales, Apple probably loses 500,000 Mac sales a quarter, while the PCs lose 10,000,000 PC sales.

Re:First hand experience (1)

Dog-Cow (21281) | about 9 months ago | (#45267367)

Getting a job at some place better paying than McDonalds.

Vesa Mount? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45266771)

Why don't support vesa mount?

Why no USB on keyboard?

Alas, nice package but more needed to be done to impress me...

Re:Vesa Mount? (1)

teg (97890) | about 9 months ago | (#45266837)

Why don't support vesa mount?

Why no USB on keyboard?

Alas, nice package but more needed to be done to impress me...

The previous version - this one only changes the internal hardware - offered a VESA mount, so this might be made available again. As for USB on the keyboard, you'll get that if you select the wired keyboard rather than the wireless one.

Re:Vesa Mount? (1)

smash (1351) | about 9 months ago | (#45266927)

The wired keyboard has USB. The wireless one doesn't.

Re: Vesa Mount? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267021)

http://store.apple.com/us/buy-mac/imac-vesa

Apple got that covered.

Re:Vesa Mount? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45267569)

Why don't support vesa mount?

How is babby formed?

Macs are still pretty... (1, Insightful)

Enrique1218 (603187) | about 9 months ago | (#45267455)

I have owned Macs since 2000. They are generally well engineer machines from hardware to the software. I have always like the Unix underpinnings (I get nostalgic). However, lately, I can no justify spending much on a Macintosh. I feel that Apple just seems to be laser focused on the casual computing market. The processors haven't really change in the last few years. The systems now skimp on the GPUs meaning gaming is essentially pointless (a console would be a better choice for the money). Right now, I feel that I can only use Macs for word processing and internet. Well, a MacMini can do that. Pretty soon, I will only need an iPAD. Apple should rethink marketing strategy.

Re:Macs are still pretty... (1)

SargentDU (1161355) | about 9 months ago | (#45267543)

Our work IMacs are pretty kicking machines. We have 2012 models with 3.4 GHz Intel Core I7s, 24 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 and 1 TB harddrives networked with Apple Servers and our up time is wonderful. Our support is a 3 person crew with only one really doing the hardware or software maintenance while the others keep the DBs and other special software going. Other agencies depend on the organizations ITD and they have windows machines but cannot boast of the uptime and productivity we have.

Re:Macs are still pretty... (2)

UnknowingFool (672806) | about 9 months ago | (#45267599)

Well they skimp out on discrete GPUs because an Intel GPU is more than adequate for the average consumer. Your use case of Macs for the internet and word processing only reinforces their strategy.
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