Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

A Year After Sandy, Do You Approach Disaster Differently?

timothy posted 1 year,1 day | from the beef-jerky-and-running-shoes dept.

Earth 230

A year ago today, Superstorm Sandy struck the northeastern U.S. The storm destroyed homes — in some cases entire neighborhoods — and brought unprecedented disruptions to the New York City area's infrastructure, interrupting transportation, communications, and power delivery. It even damaged a Space Shuttle. In the time since, the U.S. hasn't faced a storm with Sandy's combination of power and placement, but businesses have had some time to rethink how much trust they can put in even seemingly impregnable data centers and other bulwarks of modernity: a big enough storm can knock down nearly anything. Today, parts of western Europe are recovering from a major storm as well: more than a dozen people were killed as the predicted "storm of the century" hit London, Amsterdam, and other cities on Sunday and Monday. In Amsterdam, the city's transportation system took a major hit; some passengers had to shelter in place in stopped subway cars while the storm passed. Are you (or your employer) doing anything different in the post-Sandy era, when it comes to preparedness to keep people, data, and equipment safe?

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

It damaged a decommissioned space shuttle on earth (4, Informative)

metrix007 (200091) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270277)

Summary is misleading.

Re:It damaged a decommissioned space shuttle on ea (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270613)

Summary is misleading.

Was it really misleading, or did your ability to assume really stoop to that level of ignorance in thinking there are actually lung-breathers here on earth who think a storm is large enough to escape the very atmosphere it thrives in to damage an object in orbit...

...and that said lung-breathers congregate here.

Thanks. Appreciate that.

Re:It damaged a decommissioned space shuttle on ea (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270691)

Summary is misleading.

Was it really misleading, or did your ability to assume really stoop to that level of ignorance in thinking there are actually lung-breathers here on earth who think a storm is large enough to escape the very atmosphere it thrives in to damage an object in orbit...

...and that said lung-breathers congregate here.

Thanks. Appreciate that.

Go home Aqua Man you're drunk.

Re:It damaged a decommissioned space shuttle on ea (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271089)

Summary is misleading.

Was it really misleading, or did your ability to assume really stoop to that level of ignorance in thinking there are actually lung-breathers here on earth who think a storm is large enough to escape the very atmosphere it thrives in to damage an object in orbit...

...and that said lung-breathers congregate here.

Thanks. Appreciate that.

Go home Aqua Man you're drunk.

Of course he's drunk! How would YOU like to be a super hero that pretty can only swim real fast and get fish to school

Super Villain: "Oh Look! Aquaman is getting a bunch of squid to school together! Oh no! Quick, get the Italian breading, hot oil and tomato sauce! He's going to kill us with Calamari!

What next Aquaman?! Are you going to get Sea Squirts to squirt at us?! We're sooooo scared! Bweahahahahahahahahahahahaha"

And he wears Orange and Green?! Not BLUE and green - ya know - SEA COLORS?!

Poor bastard!

At least the Invisible Man got to do it with Wonder Woman AND Superman at the same time!

Re:It damaged a decommissioned space shuttle on ea (1)

Rxke (644923) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270709)

even worse, Enterpise isn't even a real shuttle, it's a full scale glorified mock up, to do glider tests et. c.

Re:It damaged a decommissioned space shuttle on ea (1)

CaptainLard (1902452) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271027)

Not to mention, how many "storms of the century" have there been in the past 5 years?

Arizona... (1)

mythosaz (572040) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270319)

So, uh, I live in Arizona, so we're pretty much still not bracing for any sort of natural disaster other than it being hot again this summer...

Re:Arizona... (1, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270349)

Actually, as much as you personally are intellectually lazy, has elaborate plans in case of drought. and severe floods aren't unheard of either [azwater.gov] .

Re:Arizona... (3, Insightful)

mythosaz (572040) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270507)

Two quick things:

Actually, as much as you personally are intellectually lazy,

You're a dick.

These "disasters" aren't. We regularly have flooding (localized, due to rains, not rivers or levees), excessive heat (110+ for weeks straight), and drought. That's normal here, benign, and we're not doing anything differently because of disasters elsewhere, because we're mostly immune from anything other than what passes for a curiosity story on CNN/Fox when we hit 118 in the summer.

Re:Arizona... (4, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270595)

Oh come on, you're a dick too, patronizing people who suffered extraordinary disasters with your post.

Re:Arizona... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270679)

Well you managed to get at least a Score:2 based on the fact you're an extremely insufferable person. Congrats.

Re:Arizona... (2)

geekoid (135745) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270695)

Theya rent a dick. I'm sorry you don't like being confronted with the truth, but that doesn't make the poster a dick.

It means that you need to stop being so intellectually lazy and take 2 minutes to see if your view holds any factual water, so to speak.

"That's normal here"
So? They are still disasters.

"benign"
no, people die, infrastructure gets damaged and so on. Those disaster have a minimal impact becasue, ready for it?...they have a disaster plan. duh duh duuuuuuh!

Re:Arizona... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270377)

So, uh, I live in Arizona, so we're pretty much still not bracing for any sort of natural disaster other than it being hot again this summer...

I would think Colorado and Utah would be much better options, for a fair amount of the year they could use natural cooling. But, to be honest, datacenters don't provide much in the way of jobs, so I would not be in much of a hurry to bring them here.

Re:Arizona... (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270973)

Your state is the disaster

Being prepared (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270323)

There were some warnings about Sandy

But what percentage of those in major quake zones have an escape bag? You know, one you grab as you flee, just before your house comes tumbling down. The 5 second bag.

If Seattle gets a strong 8, or a 9, the elevated roads in and out of the narrow strip of land will likely all collapse. Millions of people could be cut off for a long time.

Re:Being prepared (2, Insightful)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270429)

According to various shows and friends, being prepared for the next major storm/earthquake/tsunami/fire/drought/etc. is to have a large gun and ammo cache, an underground bunker, food and water for a year, off-grid energy generation and the willingness to shoot the roaming hoardes of looters, bandits and otherwise famished and unprepared bleeding-heart hippies that will try kill your dog, rape your mother and steal your food.

In the meantime, past experience indicates that 5 days of food and water is plenty of supplies to wait out the rebuilding effort, along with a house that matches the local building codes. Society is not going to collapse, Mad Max will not come to pass, and I'll be most worried about paranoid neighbors shooting me as I come to check in on them.

So my plan: backup important data across the network, have food and water for a few days and hunker down while the roads are cleared and energy access is restored. If I get bored, I can always hunt turkeys in the backyard.

Re:Being prepared (1)

epyT-R (613989) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270467)

That level of prep is meant to defend against societal collapse. A storm does not cause this.

Re:Being prepared (3, Interesting)

CastrTroy (595695) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270557)

I wonder how much societal collapse could be caused by a storm. Sure, not complete societal collapse, and not national societal collapse, but it seems likely that many parts of a single city's society could collapse if there was a big storm. Maybe in the US, this is much less likely, because the government would send in disaster relief, but look at what happened when Haiti was hit by that earthquake. Had the world not come to their rescue, things could have been much worse, and they were pretty bad anyway. Many cities in less better off nations could be pretty much completely ruined by a large storm.

Re:Being prepared (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270767)

Are you claiming there are nations worse off than Haiti? I can hardly imagine how that could be possible. About the only thing that Haiti didn't have going against them was cholera, but the rescue effort fixed that, too.

Re:Being prepared (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271007)

Possibly North Korea. For the simple fact that it's likely they would have denied access to foreign aid workers.

Re: Being prepared (2)

Badblackdog (1211452) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271139)

>> I wonder how much societal collapse could be caused by a storm? I can answer that for you. Hurricane Katrina caused a lot of death and destruction. Everything fell apart here for a lot of people. The people trapped in the Superdome and Convention Center turned on each other like animals. Society is back to normal now but for a few weeks this place had a total societal breakdown.

Re:Being prepared (2, Interesting)

NeutronCowboy (896098) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270725)

Of course. The next, obvious question though is: what is going to bring about societal collapse? And the answers I get to that range from riots to super storms to earthquakes to hyperinflation to asteroid impact to brand new plague. Most of the answers also mysteriously assume that those events are likely enough to warrant shelling out multiple thousands of dollars immediately.

The reality is that we've been through everything short of an asteroid impact, and civilization has not collapsed. Especially not western civilization. Maybe that's why Europeans are non-plussed by all these possibilities, and look at the US like a family does at its crazy uncle who is raving about government brain scans: they've been through all of it, and they've come out alright. True, there were a few World Wars that came about from some of those events, but it wasn't a collapse of civilization. If anything, it proved that civilization was rebuilt pretty much instantly by citizens working together and sharing their meager means.

Full disclosure: my parents still tell me stories of The War. It's as close as Europe ever came to total collapse, and it didn't.

Re:Being prepared (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270993)

True, there were a few World Wars that came about from some of those events, but it wasn't a collapse of civilization. If anything, it proved that civilization was rebuilt pretty much instantly by citizens working together and sharing their meager means.

I have letters from WWI from a neutral European nation which almost appear cliche at times. Stuff like "I hope this letter reaches you", etc. There's also a mention about the lack of food.

Society didn't collapse. But perhaps a fully stocked larder isn't a bad idea.

Re:Being prepared (1)

Opportunist (166417) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270635)

That's at least one level above those that consider having gun and ammo and becoming part of the roaming hordes of looters enough...

Re:Being prepared (2)

nine-times (778537) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270719)

Yeah, sometimes things like "disaster recovery" and "security" get a bit out of hand and/or miss the point. You get people really into the idea "If a nuclear bomb hit my office, I could get my operations back up and running from another location immediately, because all my data is immediately synced to a location on the other side of the country." Well yeah, that's great, until you realize the person has confused a "sync" with a "backup", and besides if a nuclear bomb hit your office, you'd have bigger problems.

What few people will admit is that most of us can afford to be out-of-commission for a few days. You might not like it, and you might lose some money, but the world would keep turning and life would go on. It can be tremendously expensive to protect yourself against every possible disaster scenario, and you may end up spending a bunch of money to save yourself only a little, for a scenario that almost never happens. And then, of course, there's also the possibility of some weird nightmare scenario that gets past all of your safeguards, which you couldn't have predicted.

Sometimes you're better off accepting that bad things happen, instead of trying to protect yourself from every possible bad scenario.

Re:Being prepared (4, Insightful)

mjr167 (2477430) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270869)

You must not have been in New Orleans after Katrina...

Re:Being prepared (2)

chuckinator (2409512) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270899)

It would help to get an amateur radio license before hand so you can contact what's left of the authorities to regroup (or just let them know not to shoot you). A CB would work just as well, but you're more likely to get in touch with them on the amateur 2 meter 144 MHz VHF frequencies than the CB 11 meter 27 MHz HF frequencies. 70 centimeter 440 MHz UHF frequencies may also help if you want to link up with others operating FRS/GMRS radios, and a GMRS license will give you the privilege of working the GMRS emergency repeaters.

Re:Being prepared (1)

geekoid (135745) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271071)

Protip: During a disaster, the authorities won't gave a rats ass whether or not you are licensed.

Re:Being prepared (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270955)

I've only seen 5 minutes of the doomsday preppers, the guy had stock piles of food, ammo etc. his wife thought he was crazy, she would just go hunt or find some bugs to eat if it came to that, she had personal experience she had been a refugee walking across Cambodia or something like that...

Well yeah (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270325)

I now carry a copy of all the Bear Grylls episodes on my smartphone, just in case.

Re:Well yeah (1)

Applekid (993327) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270523)

I now carry a copy of all the Bear Grylls episodes on my smartphone, just in case.

All the episodes? I just need a little note telling me to drink piss.

Re:Well yeah (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270649)

But with only that note to aid you how will you know to squeeze the liquids out of Elephant dung or to do jumping jacks butt naked in the snow?!

Re:Well yeah (1)

camperdave (969942) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270915)

Following Bear Grylls examples will get you killed. He is a highly trained stunt man. You'd be better off with Les Stroud's or Ray Mears's stuff. You'd be better off still with a good ebook on knots, and edible plants, and a few weekends out where there is no cell phone coverage.

Storm of the century.. for this continent (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270331)

Today, parts of western Europe are recovering from a major storm as well

Yeah, we're uhh, clearing some trees and that's it?

Not sure if it's the same thing as Sandy..

Re:Storm of the century.. for this continent (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270853)

Today, parts of western Europe are recovering from a major storm as well

Yeah, we're uhh, clearing some trees and that's it?

Not sure if it's the same thing as Sandy..

12 people died and an unpublished amount of people are in hospitals and may not survive, buildings are damaged, some to a degree where they are downright gone and railroads didn't really resume normal operation until almost 24 hours after the storm started. Other lines have yet to even give an estimate on how long repairs will take due to massive damage. Also authorities had to evacuate stranded people. Last, but not least, Denmark reports the strongest gust of wind ever recorded (53.5 m/s).

Maybe not as fatal as Sandy, but clearly not "just a few fallen trees" like you make it sound like.

No, nothing different. (2)

CitizenCain (1209428) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270335)

My employer and I are still located in the Midwest, and still do nothing to prepare for hurricanes.

Re:No, nothing different. (1)

epyT-R (613989) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270479)

What about tornadoes?

Re:No, nothing different. (4, Funny)

CitizenCain (1209428) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270637)

No tornadoes here either. (Ohio Valley, Central Ohio). We don't get any natural disasters... I guess God figures that living in Ohio is punishment enough.

Re:No, nothing different. (1)

geekoid (135745) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270739)

Are you being funny? Central Ohio does get tornadoes.
Also, disasters can e man made. To train cars pulling dangerous chemical(Chlorine, etc) move through central Ohio? if so then their should be a plan in case of derailment.

Re:No, nothing different. (1)

hawguy (1600213) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270947)

No tornadoes here either. (Ohio Valley, Central Ohio). We don't get any natural disasters... I guess God figures that living in Ohio is punishment enough.

Are you sure?

http://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/tornadoes-wreak-havoc-in-the-o/62353 [accuweather.com]

Destructive storms tore through the Ohio Valley Friday producing numerous large and devastating tornadoes and carving a path of destruction that left dozens of people dead.
There was a total of 107 tornado reports across 11 states on Friday. At least 39 people were killed by the massive tornado outbreak.

And don't forget about the floods:

http://mrcc.isws.illinois.edu/1913Flood/awareness/materials/TalkingPoints1913.pdf [illinois.edu]

Heavy rainfall, equivalent to two to three months
worth, fell across the Ohio Valley between March
23 and March 27th of 1913. The resulting runoff
produced cataclysmic floods and damages never
before seen over such a large area extending
from Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, Pennsylvania,
New York, and later communities along the Mississippi River

Maybe that was just a freak 100 year storm.... but it was 100 years ago.

Finding better locations.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270337)

Generally speaking the east coast is a dangerous place to put anything critical, they get a lot of strange weather. My thought is look for places where weather is more predictable. For instance states such as Colorado, Utah, and perhaps Arizona. Granted Colorado had floods last year, but one would hope you would place a data center in a location that is a lower to non-existent risk of that, such as Denver or Colorado Springs area. The power is underground, so heavy snow storms are less likely to take power for any significant amount of time. Anywhere in the mid-west could get tornado's which are very unpredictable. Plus, in the cooler states such as Colorado and Utah, you can use natural cooling for a fair amount of the year, thus reducing utilities.

Re:Finding better locations.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270615)

I suppose that lower rent on the East Coast means that they can afford hurricane preparedness costs and still come out ahead. Or something.

Approach disaster differently? (1)

tech.kyle (2800087) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270347)

Nope. I still run away until it's over.

Pathetic (2)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270361)

It's only called "Superstorm Sandy" because of the pathetic response of government and the self-centered hubris of nor-easters. It was just a hurricane; the Southeastern US getting far stronger storms much more often.

Re:Pathetic (1)

Opportunist (166417) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270669)

Pretty much this.

Central Europe recently had a few earthquakes. They sure made the news I tell you. Damage? C'mon, I felt them, but that's about it.

I bet the average Californian wouldn't even have woken up.

Re:Pathetic (1)

Sique (173459) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270811)

That's not a very good way to look at it.

You are prepared only for the disasters you expect, and the expectations are different for each region. There is no point to prepare for a blizzard near the equator, and there is no point to prepare for avalanches in Louisiana. The Southeast is better prepared for strong storms, because they have historically happened several times in the Southeast. I guess, the disaster relief plan for a complete freezing of the Mississippi mouth for several months is not very good either - it doesn't happen very often, and the flooding that might happen because of the impounded water has never been experienced before. Japan has a long tradition of building earthquake save buildings and does routine earthquake relief exercises, but I don't think you find the same amount of earthquake preparedness in Chicago.

Chastizing people for being not prepared for something that no one in that region in the last 150 years has experienced is just being a smartass.

Re:Pathetic (1)

cayenne8 (626475) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270819)

It's only called "Superstorm Sandy" because of the pathetic response of government and the self-centered hubris of nor-easters. It was just a hurricane; the Southeastern US getting far stronger storms much more often.

Yep...wait till a Katrina or Andrew hits your ass and then you can call it a "super" storm.

I feel poorly for the NY/NJ areas that Sandy hit, it was a weak storm, but did damage. I'm torn between feeling sympathetic....but also remembering SO many calls, from people (especially in the NE of the US) calling for moving New Orleans, that no one should live there, it is dangerous, stupid placement (it is there for a reason)...etc. The rudeness and lack of sympanthy for a sister city (not just NOLA but all the gulf that suffered from Katrina) from many in the northeast, does at time hamper my ability to feel for them.

I've not seen nearly as many calls to move NYC and the important things there to a safer area...

Yet, I relent and still do feel for the folks up there, knowing how tough it can be...and like many in LA, have sent or contributed to help to those that got hit up there...

Anyway....now they're getting to see what we went through with FEMA and dealing with the Feds, etc. And hey guys...it is IMPROVED and BETTER now than when we had to deal with it...

[rolls eyes]

See how good the feds to for you, you're closer to them, maybe they'll listen and help a bit more than they did for us.

Having a RV helps somewhat... (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270373)

Being someone who goes RV-ing often, knowing how to dry camp (this doesn't just mean parking at the local Wally World or Tesco, but actual boondocking in the woods), it does help to teach someone what they actually need come a disaster. The main thing is that a power outage just means to fire up the generator [1] used for the travel trailer, plug extension cords for the fridge, a room A/C, computers, and an electric stove element, and go from there. With a motorhome (even a type "B" rig that is a converted van), one can just use that and still have a functioning kitchen, refrigeration, hot showers, and the usual things needed even if there is no water or electricity available at the house.

The best thing for a disaster is a small motorhome or campervan. Not just for bug-out reasons, but the ability to live comfortably for an indefinite amount of time until power and utilities are restored.

[1]: RV-ers tend to use inverter generators. They are much quieter than the normal contractor type, and the inverter gives clean power output.

Re:Having a RV helps somewhat... (2)

hawguy (1600213) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270969)

The best thing for a disaster is a small motorhome or campervan. Not just for bug-out reasons, but the ability to live comfortably for an indefinite amount of time until power and utilities are restored.

Well indefinitely, or until you run out of propane for the heater and stove, fuel for the generator and fresh water.

datacenters are vulnerable (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270387)

...land based datacenters that is. If they were floating in the ocean they would just ride out the storm. Its like getting thrown clear of a car wreck when not wearing a seat belt.

Re:datacenters are vulnerable (1)

somersault (912633) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270493)

Its like getting thrown clear of a car wreck when not wearing a seat belt.

Except without the windscreen/vehicles/pedestrians/the ground/buildings/trees impacting your face.. is not wearing your seatbelt seriously considered safer by some people? Give me a seatbelt and airbag to the face over being thrown down a road at 70mph anyday..

Re:datacenters are vulnerable (1)

epyT-R (613989) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270525)

As anyone who deals with marine equipment can tell you, salt water and electronics don't mix well.

Re:datacenters are vulnerable (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270553)

wow, i thought that making two incredibly transparently stupid comments would have clued people in to sarcasm

Re:datacenters are vulnerable (1)

geekoid (135745) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270757)

And there are never raging storms on the ocean!

Government bailouts for the wealthy as usual. (1)

Medievalist (16032) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270399)

Tax dollars weren't used to relocate owners of expensive beachfront properties that washed away, instead they were used to rebuild the same beaches and homes.

Which are already washing away again...

Chris Christie stirred,
Stared on the horses of the sea, and heard
The cars of battle and his own name cried;
And fought with the invulnerable tide.

Re:Government bailouts for the wealthy as usual. (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270449)

Not really. Tax dollars aren't available to repair 2nd homes, and the amounts aren't really big enough to repair a high value home.

The beaches are getting fixed, but that is the economic life blood of a coastal town.

Re:Government bailouts for the wealthy as usual. (1)

Medievalist (16032) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270591)

If by "fixed" you mean the beaches are being "prepared for the next hurricane that will sweep them into the sea" then, yes!

This sort of thing reminds me of the Great Stone Fleet.

And all for naught. The waters pass--
Currents will have their way;
Nature is nobody's ally; 'tis well;
The harbor is bettered-will stay.
A failure, and complete,
Was your Old Stone Fleet.

Re:Government bailouts for the wealthy as usual. (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270751)

Beach replenishment from the action of nor'easters is an annual or nearly so thing around here. In fact they generally do more damage than hurricanes. It's one of the the things your beach tag pays for.

Not a big deal. Think Sisyphus,

And no, Sandy was not a hurricane.

Re:Government bailouts for the wealthy as usual. (1)

geekoid (135745) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270773)

SO? if the beaches bring in more revenue then the cost of repairing the beach then what's the problem?

Re:Government bailouts for the wealthy as usual. (1)

Medievalist (16032) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271061)

"The problem" would be socialization of costs and privatization of profits.

I pay for the beach rebuild, the people who are rebuilt (who are wealthier than I am) reap the profits, but my neighbors and I can't afford to visit the beaches anyway.
Lather, rinse, repeat since the beaches are highly impermanent and might well move five miles inland over the next hundred years.

Pretty typical post-Reagan economic setup, really.

Chris Christie, Chris Christie
Riding through the land
Chris Christie, Chris Christie
With his teabagger band
He steals from the poor
And gives to the rich
Stupid bitch

Re:Government bailouts for the wealthy as usual. (1)

stenvar (2789879) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270689)

Not really. Tax dollars aren't available to repair 2nd homes, and the amounts aren't really big enough to repair a high value home.

Second homes are insured under the National Flood Insurance programs, just like first homes. Since that insurance is heavily subsidized, tax payers are paying for rebuilding these homes. Only starting in 2013 did owners of second homes even have to start paying higher premiums than owners of primary residences, but they are still paying way below market rates. Yes, this is a bailout for the wealthy.

Re:Government bailouts for the wealthy as usual. (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270675)

just like tax dollars are used to rebuild the same homes in tornado alley

why do people live in places where a mile in diameter spinning cloud destroys your town or city every few years?

Datacenter on the 17th floor (1)

CastrTroy (595695) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270409)

I wonder if anybody is thinking twice [stackoverflow.com] about having a datacenter on the 17th floor of an office building, in a city by the ocean? Unless there is some specific need for you to be close to Wall Street, It's probably a good idea to make sure your servers are hosted where there is minimal likelihood of natural disasters, and also in a place that is easily serviceable from the ground. Although having it on the ground would have likely been worse in some cases, being a lot further inland where flooding is pretty much impossible would be even better.

Re:Datacenter on the 17th floor (1)

Mr D from 63 (3395377) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270575)

How about redundant datacenters in two places that are both reasonably protected, well separated, and economical?

Re:Datacenter on the 17th floor (1)

silas_moeckel (234313) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270735)

So data centers no close to people. It really does not work, latency is often a huge issue. This means data centers need to be physically close it's a physics issue. Sure if your DC is just say doing offsite backup sure you could put it on the moon. The biggest issue was gen sets / fuel flooding this was from a post 9/11 fire code that stopped them from storing fuel where they traditionally did.

If your solely running in any DC or area you have a serious issue. Certain requirements might necessitate close (sync replication without serious performance loss).

Re:Datacenter on the 17th floor (1)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270823)

I'm still using a NYC data center for my VoIP termination, because it's the lowest latency to me, but I'm also now prepared to move that termination to another PoP if a superstorm approaches NYC again. Though, frankly we got hit harder here by Irene than most people did by Sandy.

I was even thinking about it this summer - I've been told to expect ever-worsening hurricane seasons and this year was rather disappointing in that regard. I was quite glad to not have to deal with it, of course.

Re:Datacenter on the 17th floor (1)

hawguy (1600213) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270983)

I wonder if anybody is thinking twice [stackoverflow.com] about having a datacenter on the 17th floor of an office building, in a city by the ocean? Unless there is some specific need for you to be close to Wall Street, It's probably a good idea to make sure your servers are hosted where there is minimal likelihood of natural disasters, and also in a place that is easily serviceable from the ground. Although having it on the ground would have likely been worse in some cases, being a lot further inland where flooding is pretty much impossible would be even better.

Depends what that datacenter is for. If you need it for day to day operations in that building, having the datacenter close to the employees that use it probably isn't a terrible idea. Just make sure you have a backup datacenter for the assets you need accessible outside the company (or needed for a skeleton crew to keep the company alive during a disaster)

So American centric (2)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270417)

So many worse storm disasters have happened in the last few years, and people get worked up over Sandy?

Re:So American centric (0)

epyT-R (613989) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270627)

I'm sure sandy was nothing to people living elsewhere just as much as other storms aren't interesting to people living in the northeast US. It's not like slashdot doesn't cover other events in the world.

I'm about sick of people crying 'american-centric'. It's just a shitty ad-hom generalization implying americans as myopic, like other countries and cultures aren't also loaded with it. Hey, it happened here, so it's news here. Deal with it.

No. (1)

epyT-R (613989) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270425)

Because the problem lies above me, with the move towards centralized control of everything. Power wouldn't've been a problem if the system was more decentralized. Same with communications. Cellphones were designed as dependent devices from the beginning, no p2p mode to be found. Same with the data centers. A lot less productivity would've been lost had people taken charge of their data instead of trusting 'the cloud' for everything.

The rest of it is really just a case of shit happens. Most of the time, hurricanes aren't a big deal up here.. They knock some trees down and create a ruckus that is recovered from in a few days to a week or so, but that's about it.

Sandy was second year in a row for many (2)

kannibal_klown (531544) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270427)

The week before Halloween on 2011 we had a freak snow storm on the East Coast. It came in the middle of a MILD Fall so the leaves were still green-ish. It was a a lot of heavy snow... so trees and branches went down all over the north-East. New Jersey was without power for a while... my town was without for a week, many longer. No power meant no heat for many, so it was a cold week.

A year later, almost to the week, was Sandy... just before Halloween 2012. Obviously Sandy was a lot worse for the coastal cities because the water crept in and the wind tore up the boardwalk... but further inland it was the same s**t different year. No power or heat for a over a week, loss of many services, etc. This one was a big more wide-spread though, and getting gasoline was a BIG PitA. But otherwise it was the same pain for those more inland.

As an ex-boyscout I try to be ready for these things anyway... I have plenty of flashlights and batteries, canned food, a couple gallons of drinking water, a lighter to start the stove, warm clothes on-hand, etc. I was able to deal with mostly everything fine except the gasoline situation. After a week most of us were running low.

Re:Sandy was second year in a row for many (1)

c0d3g33k (102699) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270843)

You forgot Hurricane Irene, which came in August 2011 and did more damage in many areas than the freak Halloween snowstorm. A fair chunk of Connecticut was hit pretty hard because of the winds, since foliage was still on the trees in August. Flooding impacted pretty much the entire state of Vermont. The October snow storm was just icing on the cake. Sandy represented the triple-whammy for many in these regions, and the last straw for quite a few.

Re:Sandy was second year in a row for many (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271053)

In inland South Jersey, Irene was way worse then Sandy.

Re:Sandy was second year in a row for many (1)

silas_moeckel (234313) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270965)

It's still astounds me when neighbors have 0 prep. 30 days of food is just regular grocery shopping.

Nothing serious... (4, Funny)

OglinTatas (710589) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270457)

I still flirt with disaster, but I'm not looking for anything serious.

I did stock my basement (1)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270495)

I put a flashlight down there, batteries, a mattock to "break out" if necessary, and 2 cases of water. No food, but I figure if I'm down there that long, I've got bigger problems than eating.

Re:I did stock my basement (1)

geekoid (135745) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270817)

Hint: Many disasters could mean up to a week without food. And said disaster may destroy your hours and not impact your basement, depending on what kind of basement you want.
I would recommend getting some extra bean or chili and storing them down there. The bring up a few cans at a time. this way you have a rotation of things you are going to use anyways. Besides, two days without food will make you pretty weak and may compromise decision making.

Re:I did stock my basement (1)

hawguy (1600213) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271003)

I put a flashlight down there, batteries, a mattock to "break out" if necessary, and 2 cases of water. No food, but I figure if I'm down there that long, I've got bigger problems than eating.

A basement might not be the best place to stock supplies you may need after an earthquake or flooding.

Nope! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270511)

I live in tornado alley. Sandy was weaksauce

Re:Nope! (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271113)

Sandy was infinitely worse. Wind is nothing compared to the damage of water.

Winter Storm Atlas (3, Informative)

Macgruder (127971) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270573)

Earlier this month Atlas struck the Black Hills of South Dakota. 4-8 inches of snow were forecast for the higher elevations (5000+ feet), but here on the foot hills at 3500', we got 31" of snow. It was a wet, heavy snow that snapped power lines and tree limbs. 60+ mph winds made for zero visability and took out a large number of power poles.

Our little datacenter lost utility power Friday evening, and promptly switched to UPS, which had a lifespan of about 2 hours. Power was restored after 85 minutes, but the decision was made to power off all the servers in case we lost power again, with an eye towards starting recovery procedures in a day or two. The data center was restored to full functionality by Sunday noon, even though the businesses didn't re-open until Monday noon.

We have a complete DR plan, so if the outage persisted for another day, we could have resumed operations at a sister site. The key takeaways here were backup validation for off-site replication, lines of communication between Operations and the affected managers, and validated, sequenced shut-down and power-on check-list. I was able to get on-site through the storm thanks to my big 4x4 and coordinate the shutdown and power-on processes. Without being onsite, we would have had some more challenges due to area wide loss of network connectivity.

Re:Winter Storm Atlas (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270763)

You only had 2 hours fuel? of did the bad weather mean you could not have more tankered in. The standard for telecoms was 48 hours without power - from my 1948 era handbook of telecommunications.

Re:Winter Storm Atlas (1)

Macgruder (127971) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271145)

It wasn't an issue of fuel. We don't have a generator, just a large bank of batteries.

Re:Winter Storm Atlas (1)

hawguy (1600213) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271049)

Earlier this month Atlas struck the Black Hills of South Dakota. 4-8 inches of snow were forecast for the higher elevations (5000+ feet), but here on the foot hills at 3500', we got 31" of snow. It was a wet, heavy snow that snapped power lines and tree limbs. 60+ mph winds made for zero visability and took out a large number of power poles.

Our little datacenter lost utility power Friday evening, and promptly switched to UPS, which had a lifespan of about 2 hours. Power was restored after 85 minutes, but the decision was made to power off all the servers in case we lost power again, with an eye towards starting recovery procedures in a day or two. The data center was restored to full functionality by Sunday noon, even though the businesses didn't re-open until Monday noon.

We have a complete DR plan, so if the outage persisted for another day, we could have resumed operations at a sister site. The key takeaways here were backup validation for off-site replication, lines of communication between Operations and the affected managers, and validated, sequenced shut-down and power-on check-list. I was able to get on-site through the storm thanks to my big 4x4 and coordinate the shutdown and power-on processes. Without being onsite, we would have had some more challenges due to area wide loss of network connectivity.

Let your UPS tell the servers when to shut down when the batteries get low -- you can script any shutdown sequence you need. Then you don't have only 2 hours to drive your big 4x4 through 31 inches of snow and 60mph winds and risk becoming someone that needs to be rescued.

I treat disaster exactly the same as I did (4, Interesting)

EmagGeek (574360) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270603)

Sandy did not change my view of disasters. I still remain prepared for disaster, and when stuff looks like it is going to happen, I use my brain instead of burying my head in the sand and thinking things like "oh it won't happen to me" or "oh well Government will be there to save me," which is exactly what happened in New York.

The entire city lived in a state of denial leading up to Sandy, and continued to live in that state for a week afterward, even having the nerve to attempt to hold the NYC marathon despite there being people in need of the resources that were being used for it. Marathon organizers had generators, clean water, gasoline, and everything they wanted, while thousands of people all over the city had no power, no water, and no means of transportation out of the city.

Mayor Bloomberg is a disgrace.

Re:I treat disaster exactly the same as I did (1)

epyT-R (613989) | 1 year,1 day | (#45270693)

butbutbut YES WE CAN!!

Re:I treat disaster exactly the same as I did (1)

geekoid (135745) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270861)

SO it's the Mayors fault people weren't prepared?
Or was it his fault he didn't forcible take other peoples stuff to reallocate as he saw fit?
Or is it his caulk some people want to continue with their lives, but then decided not to do the marathon?
OR maybe you are a hater ass?

Re:I treat disaster exactly the same as I did (1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271037)

It is the Mayor's fault the city did nothing to prepare.

It is the Mayor's fault the city did nothing to respond.

It is the Mayor's fault for misallocating city resources to benefit the image of the City rather than the citizens of the city. The resources the marathon organizers had (generators, etc) were property of the city. They were the Mayor's to take as necessary.

I am a New Yorker. I was there. The way the city handled it was criminal.

Re:I treat disaster exactly the same as I did (1)

silas_moeckel (234313) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270945)

They are city dwellers, living that dense never makes sense.

My disaster shopping lists have been crafting supplies for my GF and stocking up on gas. Mostly because neither of those two things will keep in my home. Crafting supplies get used up and gas goes bad quickly.

Florida Checking In (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,1 day | (#45270677)

We are totally befuddled that anyone is still even mentioning Sandy. It was a MINOR storm. Sure, New Jersey had a lot of flooding, but Sandy was nothing! Ask anyone in New Orleans, Sandy was NOTHING!

The only indirectly interesting thing about Sandy is that there hasn't been a larger storm since, as would be normal.

Meanwhile, has anyone heard about Typhoon Phailin? If they have, it certainly seems like no fucks were given.

Not really (1)

gravis777 (123605) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270717)

Disaster recovery was already part of our operations. When Sandy hit, it took out a couple of branches for a few days, but operations were just DRed over to other geographic areas. We have fiber cuts all the time, and traffic just gets rerouted or DRed to another area.

Pretty much when Sandy hit, everything happened exactly as it was supposed to.

disasters approach me differently (2)

Zecheus (1072058) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270787)

Since Sandy, disasters don't approach me at all, actually....Its been about 12 months now, I think, since I was last approached by a disaster. They have given up I think.

Hurricanes (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270815)

We have hurricanes (there is no such thing as a "superstorm") here in North Carolina all the time. When Hugo hit, we did not get a $50 billion aid package (We *only* got 1 billion). When Fran hit, we did not get a $50 billion aid package. When Floyd hit, we did not get a $50 billion aid package. All three storms were way more powerful and devastating than not-so-superstorm Sandy. By the way, since when did Alaska become part of New York since $150 million of that "aid" bill went to Alaska. We had less deaths too because people actually evacuate when they are told to.

Re:Hurricanes (1)

SternisheFan (2529412) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271137)

With Sandy it wasn't so much the rain and wind that the New York/New Jersey area wasn't prepared for, it was the flooding, and power outages that devasted the area. 8-12 foot storm surge knocking buildings off foundations was commonplace. Some homeowners near the ocean are now rebuilding with 15 foot high foundations. Gas stations had gas, but no power for the pumps (no generator backup). Power was mostly back after 2 weeks time, though I saw near fighting over spots on gas lines as people in SUVs waited hoping a tanker truck would arrive soon.

For this area it was an overdue storm (1938 was the last bad flood event here), and for decades people lived as if the area would never have high flooding again. The question is, will we be prepared next time, or will people forget the past?

A Subject That Robotics Can Help (1)

LifesABeach (234436) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270827)

DARPA X-Prize Project, build a multi use robot that can dismantle a Red Tagged home. Not demolish, dismantle. Pile everything up, neatly. Personal items in a pile. Building supplies in another. Because everyone knows what's going to happen When OSH, Lowe's, and Home Depot opens in the morning. Why not make this a War College exercise. And how does one dismantle a home one nail at a time? I hear that Katrina, and Sandy may have some interesting test sites here and there.

Another thing, with 10 million under employed, or out of work engineers in America; that they can't figure this out? One word, Blender3D.

Preparations (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270841)

Over the past two years I lost power for about 4 weeks.

The last two weeks were miserable because it happened in early November when the weather was cold.

So I spent about 5k for a good multi-fuel generator and installation of a manual transfer switch. So now a prolonged grid outage will at least not leave me freezing in the dark.

Reply to title (0)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45270887)

No, I live in Florida, we live differently after Andrew.

Datacenter Geography (1)

neorush (1103917) | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271029)

I have several customers on long island, and my customers were some of the quickest to recover (they just had to get themselves back online) as all data and POS systems are in the cloud. I keep 3 separate geographic locations of server clusters and a fourth backup at our office. Those IT guys who think data centers / companies are infallible have not been around long enough to see a data center go under financially, or have servers raided because the police don't understand what a virtual server means. Much less an actual natural disaster. IMHO there is very little reason to be 'down' these days, with on demand services from rackspace and S3, it just takes proper planning.

YuoJ Fa1l It (-1)

Anonymous Coward | 1 year,23 hours | (#45271111)

FreeBSD project, consistent with the 'doing something' That have raged another special NetBSD posts on *BSD has lost more
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?