Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Smartphone Sales: Apple Squeezed, Blackberry Squashed, Android 81.3%

samzenpus posted about 10 months ago | from the leader-of-the-pack dept.

Android 390

mrspoonsi writes "Engadget reports: Smartphone market share for the third quarter...as you'd imagine, the world is still Android's oyster. Strategy Analytics estimates that the OS has crossed the symbolic 80 percent mark, reaching 81.3 percent of smartphone shipments by the end of September. Not that Google was the only company doing well — Nokia's strong US sales helped Windows Phone grow to 4.1 percent of the market, or nearly double what it had a year ago."

cancel ×

390 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

2.3 million Android phones per day (4, Informative)

symbolset (646467) | about 10 months ago | (#45297925)

Samsung alone accounts for 1 million of those, leaving 1.3 million per day for others. Here are the per-company numbers. [engadget.com]

It will be interesting to see if LG can deliver enough of the Nexus 5 to bump their numbers over the holidays.

Re:2.3 million Android phones per day (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298083)

Samsung alone accounts for 1 million of those, leaving 1.3 million per day for others. Here are the per-company numbers. [engadget.com]

It will be interesting to see if LG can deliver enough of the Nexus 5 to bump their numbers over the holidays.

I guess that means Korean children can assemble phones faster than Chinese children?

Are *ALL* Nokia phones *smartphones* ?? (2, Informative)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 10 months ago | (#45298505)

I believe that the stat is skewed.

I have friends in India, Bangladesh, Africa, Thailand, Indonesia who sell phones, and they tell me that, for every one Nokia smartphone that they sell, they sell 8 Nokia non-Smartphones.

Nokia's offerings in many 3rd world countries are largely comprise of very cheap cellphones, selling as cheap as 15 euro (or about 20 USD) a pop.

None of those phones has Windows installed on them.

Re:Are *ALL* Nokia phones *smartphones* ?? (4, Informative)

Therad (2493316) | about 10 months ago | (#45298605)

The stats are only for smartphones, so they are correct.

Re:Are *ALL* Nokia phones *smartphones* ?? (1)

dreamchaser (49529) | about 10 months ago | (#45298609)

I believe that the stat is skewed.

I have friends in India, Bangladesh, Africa, Thailand, Indonesia who sell phones, and they tell me that, for every one Nokia smartphone that they sell, they sell 8 Nokia non-Smartphones.

Nokia's offerings in many 3rd world countries are largely comprise of very cheap cellphones, selling as cheap as 15 euro (or about 20 USD) a pop.

None of those phones has Windows installed on them.

The stat specifically says smartphones, not all phones.

Re:2.3 million Android phones per day (1)

the_B0fh (208483) | about 10 months ago | (#45298209)

Uh, does any phone vendor other than Apple release actual unit sales numbers?

Re:2.3 million Android phones per day (3, Insightful)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 10 months ago | (#45298563)

Actually I'm more surprised wiht Nokia taking 4.1% of the market.

While a small market share, 4.1% of a big market still means lots of phones. And for a single manufacturer to have >4% market share is pretty impressive, considering how they messed up their existing position.

Re:2.3 million Android phones per day (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298663)

Actually I'm more surprised with Nokia taking 4.1% of the market.

I'm not.

Telcos over here are flogging 520s like they were being given kickbacks for every unit sold. They're being pushed as the default phone on corp deals and other promotions. I'm not sure who's making money off them, but somebody's surely spending a lot.

Wow, 4.1 percent (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45297947)

And it only took 3 years. Way to go WiPho. Even BB moved 30 percent in less time.

Apple made the same mistake (5, Interesting)

etash (1907284) | about 10 months ago | (#45297949)

with smartphones as in the 80s with the computers. It followed a practice of a closed ecosystem, keeping everything proprietary and trying to control everything. Android today is what IBM and compatible was back in the day. The same way apple computers became just a niche market back then, iphones are becoming right now.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45297981)

I don't think the closed ecosystem has anything to do with it : i have an iPhone, and while my teenage kids love it and wouldn't stop dreaming about one, they just CAN NOT AFFORD it. So they jumped ship and bought a cheap 150€ android. While their phone is inferior, it is "good enough" for all they need to do. Now that they bought it, they're stuck in the android world partly because of the apps they bought, partly due to pride in defending their choice, but mostly because they see that their cheap phone can do EVERYTHING my iPhone can do at a quarter of the price.

apple is losing the youth, and doesn't give a shit.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (2)

LordLucless (582312) | about 10 months ago | (#45298007)

It's all related; Apple's iron grip on their ecosystem is what allows them to position their device as "premium" and charge so much for it. If they'd done what IBM/Google did, and opened their OS so that everyone could make compatible clones, competition would drive the price down.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Mitchell314 (1576581) | about 10 months ago | (#45298057)

The hardware Apple computers used was much more expensive than what IBM used, as Apple was building hardware that could support GUIs. That was the main driving force for why they were so much more expensive. IBM's early machines were underpowered and used cheap equipment, even by the standards of the time.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298113)

If you are talking GUIs then you are talking about Macintosh same main processor as Amiga but two fewer custom processors... guess who was cheaper. Atari had a graphical GUI too hardware cheaper... apples always been able to get a gullible subset of computer users to buy there over inflated hardware/software. Now with the marketing wizard dead, it feels like the 90s all over again.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (3, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298335)

The early '90s, when Amiga and Atari went out of business? I bet Apple regrets not copying their business models. I loved my Amiga but Commodore were utterly delusional if they thought they were competitive at that time.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about 10 months ago | (#45298425)

no, the mid 80's, which is more relevant. because the further you go into '80s the crappier deal the "magically designed for gui" apples became.

though compared to mac hw both atari and amiga provided competitive hardware in early '90s :). what every one of those firms provided were shit when compared to 386's though. just another example of macboys first saying they're better value for money and when shown otherwise gloating about how they're proud about the company charging more than competition for same chips.

and your typical mac you saw in even late 80's was black and white small monitor piece of shit bested easily by even cheap 8mhz pc clones of late 80's which too ran a gui if so configured.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298449)

Well, AC is the one who said this was like the '90s all over again, and I thought it was interesting that they chose a time when Apple's supposed betters collapsed in smoking heaps and they not only kept going, but doubled down on the whole "incredibly expensive computer" thing. As someone who owned an Amiga as late as '99 I sometimes wish Commodore had played the long game a bit better.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298681)

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the mid 90s when apple collapsed as well and Microsoft had to come in and bail them out simply to try to stop monopoly investigations?

Re:Apple made the same mistake (1)

dreamchaser (49529) | about 10 months ago | (#45298627)

The early '90s, when Amiga and Atari went out of business? I bet Apple regrets not copying their business models. I loved my Amiga but Commodore were utterly delusional if they thought they were competitive at that time.

Hardware != business model. Amiga's were superior in many ways. It was the way they were marketed and the way the company was managed that did them in.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (2)

Bert64 (520050) | about 10 months ago | (#45298403)

Aside from the lack of custom chips, Apple machines were generally higher end than the common Amiga and Atari models... While Commodore made low cost models like the A500, A600 and A1200, Apple were only making higher end models with faster processors, more memory. scsi hard drives, flicker free monitor vs tv etc, and they weren't unreasonably priced compared to the similar specced Amiga models like the A3000 and A4000.

From my (somewhat hazy) recollection, when the A1200 came with 2mb ram, a 14mhz 68020, dd floppy drive and could be used with a flickery tv set, the lowest end mac had a 25mhz 68030, 4mb ram, scsi hdd and came with a proper monitor.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298225)

What on earth are you talking about? IBM didn't "open up" the PC design. Compaq reversed engineered it using a clean room process to avoid legal issues. (http://computemagazine.com/the-history-of-the-ibm-personal-computer/)

Re:Apple made the same mistake (5, Informative)

Bert64 (520050) | about 10 months ago | (#45298409)

And that reverse engineering process was significantly aided by the fact that all of the hardware was built using off the shelf components, and the only thing they actually had to reverse engineer was the BIOS.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (5, Insightful)

servies (301423) | about 10 months ago | (#45298133)

....

While their phone is inferior, it is "good enough" for all they need to do

....

but mostly because they see that their cheap phone can do EVERYTHING my iPhone can do at a quarter of the price.

So with that last sentence you're saying it's superior to your iPhone....

Re:Apple made the same mistake (5, Funny)

crimson tsunami (3395179) | about 10 months ago | (#45298189)

Cut him some slack.
He's just bitter that he's stuck in the apple world partly because of the apps he bought, partly due to pride in defending his choice.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298323)

If your phone needs are the same as a teenager's, sure.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (4, Insightful)

Therad (2493316) | about 10 months ago | (#45298635)

I wouldn't be surprised if the teenager has more "phone needs" than the parent.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298325)

In his kids eyes, certainly. Apple are pricing themselves out of the lower end market, a practice that will lose them marketshare

Re: Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298139)

If it can do everthing the iphone does at quarter the price ... thats not really inferior now is it!

Rgds

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298301)

i have an iPhone, and while my teenage kids love it and wouldn't stop dreaming about one, they just CAN NOT AFFORD it.

That's just one of the problems a closed ecosystem brings, duh.
closed -> monopoly -> we do what we want/no one else can do anything -> only 1 product (and 3-4 models) vs 50.000 products with 2-3 models each...

IMHO the "they can't afford it" is a direct effect of the closed ecosystem.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298305)

Back in the days, a Mac had SCSI, and the 68000 series CPUs beat the crap out of the 80286, but the Mac cost maybe 3 times as much.

The PC was just as inferior as the cheap android phone.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (4, Insightful)

Bert64 (520050) | about 10 months ago | (#45298375)

Same thing happened with computers, Apple only really competed at the higher end with SCSI drives and color screens, while crude ibm-compatible clones could be had for a fraction of the price. People are quite ok with inferior so long as its cheaper and "good enough", especially during tougher economic times. And once you've bought into one system, the cost of escaping it for another incompatible system is high because you'd need to reacquire all your applications.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (5, Insightful)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 10 months ago | (#45298465)

These days it's the opposite. The Nexus 5 beats the iPhone 5S in pretty much every area. Better screen, NFC, wireless charging, full 1080p video output, better camera, and arguably better software. Yet it costs half the price.

At one point you could reasonably argue that it was worth paying extra for an iPhone, but these days unless you are already locked in I think it's going to be hard to justify paying double for an inferior or at best equal product.

Niche market (4, Interesting)

Udo Schmitz (738216) | about 10 months ago | (#45297995)

[] apple computers became just a niche market back then, iphones are becoming right now. []

Both are/will be very profitable niche markets though:

http://appleinsider.com/articles/13/10/30/apple-earned-more-than-samsung-lg-nokia-huawei-lenovo-motorolas-mobile-shipments-combined [appleinsider.com]

And regarding Androids ubiquity, fragmentation or open-source-ness, this article suggests Google wants more control:

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/10/googles-iron-grip-on-android-controlling-open-source-by-any-means-necessary/ [arstechnica.com]

Re:Niche market (4, Insightful)

aiadot (3055455) | about 10 months ago | (#45298253)

Yeah, from my perspective I can't help but to notice the huge boner most people on internet have towards market share and mainstream market acceptance, regardless if it's for smartphones, computers, game consoles and accessories or services. People just seem to forget that business are about making money. Having a huge share may have some help with it, but that is not always true.

Re:Niche market (1, Insightful)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about 10 months ago | (#45298331)

Obviously you do not have an MBA. Perhaps you even think common sense is a better guide to life?

Re:Niche market (3, Funny)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298343)

The user with "a million lemmings can't be wrong" as their sig thinks that popularity is more important than profitability. Classic.

Re:Niche market (1)

shilly (142940) | about 10 months ago | (#45298417)

And repeats a line about MBAs that's only been said about .... a million times already.

Re:Niche market (5, Insightful)

Gunboat_Diplomat (3390511) | about 10 months ago | (#45298523)

Yeah, from my perspective I can't help but to notice the huge boner most people on internet have towards market share and mainstream market acceptance, regardless if it's for smartphones, computers, game consoles and accessories or services. People just seem to forget that business are about making money. Having a huge share may have some help with it, but that is not always true.

Depends on whether you are thinking as an investor or consumer I guess. I find it puzzling when consumers have a huge boner for the extreme profit margin a manufacturer is extracting from them ;)

Re:Niche market (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298255)

In the second article it seems like the person is more annoyed the apps aren't free. You would be able to install free versions on the phone if they exist. I think Linux has some paid for apps. Its the same story. I don't think the journalist knows what an OS is.

Re:Niche market (4, Informative)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298315)

He's annoyed that they aren't free-as-in-speech, in that Google is making the most fundamental Android apps proprietary. The open-source versions have been abandoned by them. It'd be like if Ubuntu was still ostensibly open-source but everything outside of the window manager had to be written by the customer or bought via a non-compete licence agreement with Canonical.

Re:Niche market (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298297)

Half of all the profit in the smartphone market goes to Apple, the other half to Samsung. [businessinsider.com] . Everyone else is losing money. It's an alarming situation for smartphones. Google can afford to stay in the game to keep Android going - they're basically selling the Nexus line at cost- but I'm not sure that the rest can. The idea of a Samsung-Apple duopoly controlling smartphones does not appeal.

Re:Niche market (4, Informative)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about 10 months ago | (#45298351)

Only because dickheads like HTC keep making phones which dont have removable SD cards and batteries because they believe the moron that told them that is why iPhones sell.

Hell, as a real world user, and not a paid reviewer, I prefer Samsung's plastic case, because it is harder to damage, and my phone rarely leaves its leather case anyway.

All my family has Samsung phones, and every single one will change brand next contract if another brand has a better offering.

Some had iPhones b4, but poor reception and broken screens led to a change of heart.

Re:Niche market (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298429)

They're good phones, but I'm just saying, it's not Android that's doing well right now, it's Samsung. And I dare say that Samsung's more interested in boosting the Samsung ecosystem than Google's.

Re:Niche market (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 10 months ago | (#45298487)

That Ars article doesn't seem to understand the difference between the OS and the applications that are bundled with it by the manufacturer.

Re:Niche market (1)

rasmusbr (2186518) | about 10 months ago | (#45298503)

That Ars article doesn't seem to understand the difference between the OS and the applications that are bundled with it by the manufacturer.

Did you read the article? Put simply, Google has set up a system where it is impossible to fork Android and grow a market share. That's fully within their rights to do, but let's not pretend that Google is working on a free mobile OS.

Google is working on an OS that will prevent total and utter dominance by Apple. A worthy goal IMO since a duopoly is vastly better than a monopoly.

Re:Niche market (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 10 months ago | (#45298669)

How is it impossible to fork? Amazon continue to maintain their fork without issues. You can fork the OS as much as you like, it's just that some of the apps are closed source. There are open source versions of those apps but they are not quite as good in most cases.

The OS is fully open source and easy to fork. If you want Google apps bundled with it then you need to agree to Google's terms for including those apps.

Re:Niche market (1)

Richard_at_work (517087) | about 10 months ago | (#45298675)

You might indeed be able to fork the OS, but you also would have to go your own way with an earlier version of the SDK, or build your own, as clause 3.4 of the Android SDK license says:

3.4 You agree that you will not take any actions that may cause or result in the fragmentation of Android, including but not limited to distributing, participating in the creation of, or promoting in any way a software development kit derived from the SDK.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (4, Interesting)

antifoidulus (807088) | about 10 months ago | (#45298003)

Um, if you want define "mistake" as "making lots of money", then yeah, they made a "mistake". If you look at usage stats though what you see is a very different picture. For instance, iPhones still dominate in mobile web usage [macdailynews.com] , as well as app usage etc.

Apple is actually selling more iPhones than ever, even if their market share is falling. A big portion of the Android increase is coming in the form of people replacing "dumb" phones with smart phones, but as the usage stats show, many of them are still treating them like dumb phones. Apple has carved out a niche, and seems to be doing quite well in that niche without the need to sell an iPhone to every single user on the planet(which given their business model won't necessarily make them more money).

Apple's situation now is not really comparable to the situation in the 80s. Maybe when large #s of devs start jumping ship, but you will still be hard pressed to find a large # of apps(note the pedants, I didn't say 0) that are available for Android but not iPhone.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (1, Interesting)

greentshirt (1308037) | about 10 months ago | (#45298129)

Apple only became the profitable monster it is today after coming back from the brink of extinction and dominating mobile / music. That's the source of it's "making lots of money."

However, once it loses mobile, as it is surely poised to do, it will no longer be making lots of money... at least, not by current standards. Unless they figure out how to resurrect Jobs so he can resurrect the company again.

Companies like Apple and Blackberry need to learn that no matter how dominantly they control a market, they are only a few quarterly cycles away from completely losing their market position.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (5, Insightful)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298221)

You're conflating marketshare and sales volume. If your sales volume goes down, so does your marketshare* but the inverse is not true. Your sales volume can be increasing - and with it your profits - while your marketshare declines, simply because other companies are now selling products in your sphere. As long as volume is good and your margins are good, you keep making money.

This is why Apple continued to be profitable in the days when all it was selling was iMacs and Powerbooks to a tiny portion of the market: they made money on every unit sold and the number of units they sold was enough for them to operate. This is why Apple's balance sheet was at its healthiest in the period when its smartphone marketshare was declining most rapidly: there was a boom on, and their volumes were increasing spectacularly even as their share shrank.

I'd be more concerned about all the phone companies who are making losses every quarter on their devices, despite growing market share. If you're selling 10% of the world's smartphones and you're losing $100 per device sold you need to turn that around or you are up the creek.

*Unless the whole market is shrinking, but that wasn't the case for Nokia or Blackberry

Re:Apple made the same mistake (2, Insightful)

narcc (412956) | about 10 months ago | (#45298181)

Apple is actually selling more iPhones than ever, even if their market share is falling.

Just like BlackBerry was not very long ago...

Re:Apple made the same mistake (5, Informative)

Solandri (704621) | about 10 months ago | (#45298185)

Um, if you want define "mistake" as "making lots of money", then yeah, they made a "mistake". If you look at usage stats though what you see is a very different picture. For instance, iPhones still dominate in mobile web usage, as well as app usage etc.

No it doesn't. Those stats are for iOS (iPhone + iPad) vs Android phones and tablets. And it's only for wifi traffic. On web traffic over cellular networks, Android devices generate slightly more traffic than iOS devices [allthingsd.com] . Basically your link cherry-picked the one chart favorable to iOS.

If you limit the comparison to just iPhone vs Android phones [statcounter.com] , Android generates more web traffic. And before you pull out the NetMarketShare data showing iPhone still leading: (1) NetMarketShare gets data from only a few tens of thousands of sites, while StatCounter gets its data from millions of sites. And (2) NetMarketShare's figures are normalized to unique visitors per month. i.e. Someone who visits a site once in a month counts as much as someone who uses the site every day. StatCounter counts web hits, so is measuring actual web usage rather than counting number of users. In other words, more iPhone users browse the web on their phone than Android users, but they don't do much browsing. The hardcore phone browser users are on Android and they generate more web traffic than the larger number of iPhone users who use the browser..

Basically the only lead Apple still has is the iPad in the tablet market, and it's rapidly losing that too. Their share of quarterly tablet sales dropped from a commanding 60% in 2012 to 33% in 2Q2013, and now 29% in 3Q2013 [cnet.com] . Those are quarterly sales, so iPads probably still comprise the majority of tablets in use, which match with your initial stats showing iOS dominating in wifi-based web traffic.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298217)

"Apple is actually selling more iPhones than ever..."

They are part of a growing market (smartphones), why should the fact that they are selling more phones be a surprise to anyone?
It's a little like how Apple likes to announce their new iPhones as the "fastest/best phone they've made!". Some things you should just take for granted.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298005)

Yep, to fix that they should hire some Lemonade manager and license their design to others. Then they should hire back Steve Jobs ... wait ... oh... nevermind.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298009)

with smartphones as in the 80s with the computers. It followed a practice of a closed ecosystem, keeping everything proprietary and trying to control everything. Android today is what IBM and compatible was back in the day. The same way apple computers became just a niche market back then, iphones are becoming right now.

What's most interesting is that Microsoft has also done the same thing with Windows as IBM did back then. IBM saw OS2 / MCA as an opportunity to block competitors and take back control of PC hardware. Now Microsoft is using Windows 8/Windows market place as an opportunity to lock out GPL software and to take control of the application vendor's revenue. They think that software companies, PC manufacturers and mobile operators are too stupid to see that they will get screwed long term. They may even be right about the second two, but their assumption that Windows can fail repeatedly and still recover doesn't work any more when your competitor is being delivered on 80% of devices.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298011)

Considering the money they made selling only a small percentage of all smartphones, it's probably not right to call their choice a mistake. If anyone made a mistake it's the customers who, again, bought into a closed and thus doomed ecosystem. Apple's problem is that they'll have a hard time coming up with the next high-margin product now that Steve Jobs can't help them anymore.

Re: Apple made the same mistake (1)

rolfwind (528248) | about 10 months ago | (#45298017)

You, the lay man, can't build a smartphone from components.

Their only mistake was not shipping a cheaper phone model around 2009. make it out of plastic and all that.

Re: Apple made the same mistake (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298303)

In 2009 all the available iPhone models were made out of plastic. They didn't switch to metal until 2010.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (2)

91degrees (207121) | about 10 months ago | (#45298041)

Aple do have the second largest market share in the smartphone market. I doubt they'd have anything likethat share if they made Android phones.

Oh dear (1)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 10 months ago | (#45298071)

Android is what IBM was? You mean doomed to become totally obsolete in the phone business the same way IBM was?

I could understand what you meant if you had likened Android to Microsoft or even Compaq but to a company who no longer makes PC's and whose PC OS (OS/2) was dead on arrival seems you either think Android is doomed, or have a shaky grasp of IT history.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (1)

gutnor (872759) | about 10 months ago | (#45298077)

The "control everything" (or in a positive light "integration"), is what Apple is selling and what they are good at. Apple cannot compete head to head with Android, history taught them that - they failed until Jobs came back and started to focus on their niche. After a decade of restructuring, Apple is simply not ready to compete on many fronts, like Samsung is for example.

That is what is amazing with Apple this time. They had the whole smartphone market by the balls, but they let it go to stay focused on a smaller number of products.

The real big big difference is that this time there are other players competing in Apple's traditional niche instead of being left alone. If Apple eventually fails, it is this time not because of a strategic problem, just because the competition was good. ( and that's a good thing no ? )

Re:Apple made the same mistake (2)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | about 10 months ago | (#45298591)

The "control everything" (or in a positive light "integration"), is what Apple is selling and what they are good at. Apple cannot compete head to head with Android, history taught them that - they failed until Jobs came back and started to focus on their niche. After a decade of restructuring, Apple is simply not ready to compete on many fronts, like Samsung is for example.

Apple doesn't have to, nor do they want to, compete on every front. They have focused on what they believe is a profitable market segment and develop products for that segment. By focusing, they can build a product set that is very profitable and not waste time and money on less profitable commodity products.

That is what is amazing with Apple this time. They had the whole smartphone market by the balls, but they let it go to stay focused on a smaller number of products.

The early smartphone market was for high end devices; an area that Apple competes in quite well. As the market expanded and cheaper phones came out, Apple chose not to go into the more price sensitive areas instead focusing on the expanding demand at the high end of the market. As Apple developed a series of iPhones it became viable for them to keep older models at lower price points to bring more people into its eco-system; even then the lower priced iPhone isn't cheap if you buy it off contract. Apple is moving into a broader market by targeting what they see as the most valuable segments and happy to leave the low end to Android.

The real big big difference is that this time there are other players competing in Apple's traditional niche instead of being left alone. If Apple eventually fails, it is this time not because of a strategic problem, just because the competition was good. ( and that's a good thing no ? )

Yes, competition is god and Apple will need to continue to innovate to stay on top. However, Apple really isn't in the phone business as much as they are in the content delivery business. They'll still put out great iPhones; but they'll be aimed at tying people tighter into the whole eco-system. That is an area that gives them an advantage over their competitors because they don't offer the same end to end experience (yet). The iPhone, iPad, AppleTV and Mac will all be ways to deliver content i this customers that allow happen to text, make phone calls and run programs.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298079)

Agreed, but ... also realize it needed Steve Jobs to pull the iPhone off, as all others did not have the vision. We would still have clumsy phones without Job.

It takes a concentrated focus to develop an iPhone, and that concentration leads to a proprietary mindset, because you need to distinct yourself in the development process already. Yet, at some time you have to open up, and let others in - or experience what Apple is about experience. Google only could do this, because Apple did it before, Google is the copy-cat in regards of Android, immitating the iPhone from the user experience point of view; and that many developers have not understood: the user experience determines the success or the fail, and not the kernel settings - these need to be right as well, but up to the top any layer has to be fine tuned, up to the GUI, and if you fail at the GUI, you failed in the eyes of the user. And the failure of the linux desktop shows it, it fails at the GUI, not at the OS level.

Steve Jobs could cure cancer (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 10 months ago | (#45298703)

Agreed, but ... also realize it needed Steve Jobs to pull the iPhone off, as all others did not have the vision. We would still have clumsy phones without Job

Ironically their is strong evidence, that Apple copied from Sony. Even if it is not true it shows clearly that others were moving in the the same direction. We also saw in the trial the massive range from Samsung in the pipeline, we also see full screen prototype from Google. Hell they were beaten to market by similar phones

The reality is Apple came out the gate with an great first product, and have become the richest company by market cap on the planet because of it, but that was then and the myth of Steve Jobs is now hurting not helping Apple

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298141)

And where is IBM today? Licensing ARM.

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298211)

No. It's licensing out POWER8 to Google and NVIDIA.

Re: Apple made the same mistake (0)

kTag (24819) | about 10 months ago | (#45298173)

Another one who think he is smarter than the team who has made Apple the only company in the world to sit on top of more than 100 billion in cash. Please apply your great strategy to your own business and let others enjoy the consequences of their "mistakes". Good laugh though.

Re: Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298371)

If by "the team", you're referring to "Steve Jobs", I think you'll find he's not around any more.

Re: Apple made the same mistake (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298381)

I've heard of deifying Steve Jobs but this is ridiculous. You do appreciate that their profitability came out of Tim Cook's ops management, iOS came out of Forstall's engineering team, and their design was by Jonathan Ive, right? And the zillions of people that work(ed) under them?

Re:Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298347)

with smartphones as in the 80s with the computers. It followed a practice of a closed ecosystem, keeping everything proprietary and trying to control everything. Android today is what IBM and compatible was back in the day. The same way apple computers became just a niche market back then, iphones are becoming right now.

Despite the implied Android fanboyism, you're actually right - you just forgot what happened to all the clone manufacturers. HINT: they got squeezed so hard on margin that most of them went out of business...

Re: Apple made the same mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298483)

Do you want the guy selling you stuff to have high margins? Capitalism is good exactly because it leads to lower margins. That's why there are laws against monopolies. And why there should be limits of state-sponsored monopolies like patents and copyrights (although not enough).

Re:Apple made the same mistake (2)

msauve (701917) | about 10 months ago | (#45298391)

"Apple made the same mistake with smartphones as in the 80s with the computers. It followed a practice of a closed ecosystem,"

What are you babbling about? Sure, iPhone is closed, what with the company store and all. But Macintosh never was. Development info was freely available (Inside Mac, etc.), software sold on the open market without needing Apple's approval, hardware was mostly based on standards like SCSI and NuBus (AppleTalk and ADB were exceptions, but there were no comparable standards based alternatives at the time), which anyone could develop for.

They didn't license the OS (well, for a short time), but that's not what makes a system "closed."

Re:Apple made the same mistake (1)

hairyfish (1653411) | about 10 months ago | (#45298475)

1993 all over again. Replace Apple vs Windows with Apple vs Android and it is pretty much history repeating. Shiney only gets you so far, the market will always choose price and flexibility over the long run.

Re: Apple made the same mistake (1)

dnadoc (3013299) | about 10 months ago | (#45298511)

They even came out with a cheap version just like back then with the Apple IIe. Jobs must have seen the parallel given how angry he got the second time:

I will spend my last dying breath if I need to, and I will spend every penny of Appleâ(TM)s $40 billion in the bank, to right this wrong... Iâ(TM)m willing to go to thermonuclear war on this.

It's all about choice and value... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45297963)

And the market is clearly choosing. I wonder how much longer Apple's ecosystem effects (iTunes, App stores, Macs/iOS integration, custom ARM chips, religiously devoted fanbase) will continue to hold cachet what with their irrevocable iOS upgrades, wifi-destroying firmware, high price, and highly "cultivated" store. Sure, with Android you have a risk of malware and not always being able to upgrade right away or at all... but when you're only paying $2-300 vs. $500+ for iPhone, you can afford to get newer hardware more often.

The cake is a lie (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 10 months ago | (#45298637)

Perpetuating a lie https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YDYUrD22Xq12nKkhBfwoJBfw2Q-OReMr0BrDfHyfyPw/pub?start=false&loop=false&delayms=3000#slide=id.g1202bd8e5_05 [google.com] here is Googles response.

The bottom line is their is a real problem with Apps stealing users data on *every* platform; it needs to be addressed, The Android lie is not only offensive; It obscures a real problem.

“SOURCE: Strategy Analytics” (3, Interesting)

Udo Schmitz (738216) | about 10 months ago | (#45297967)

Strategy Analytics is the company Samsung uses to push the numbers they like to the press, while at the same time avoiding any regulatory oversight. Strategy Analytics‘ Korean headquarter even is in the same building as Samsungs.

Re: “SOURCE: Strategy Analytics” (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45297991)

That's an interesting fact. However, unless you can actually prove the numbers are falsified and that is connected to Samsung it is also completely irrelevant.

Re: “SOURCE: Strategy Analytics” (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298149)

No, it's not. Burden of proof and all that - it would be more efficient for the statistics provider to show why they are trustworthy.

Re:“SOURCE: Strategy Analytics” (1)

Shadow of Eternity (795165) | about 10 months ago | (#45298169)

Because it's completely unheard of for multiple companies to have headquarters in the same massive building...

IDC (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298265)

The numbers from Strategy Analytics' competitors show the same story, so your point is kind of moot.

Re:“SOURCE: Strategy Analytics” (2)

thegarbz (1787294) | about 10 months ago | (#45298333)

They may be in bed with Samsung but that doesn't in any way mean they are wrong or misleading (well they are publishing stats, and stats are always misleading). There's been a massively rising trend from any source you wish to cite over the past few years. The articles date well back and each says something about Android increasing market share.

For instance from the first 6 hits on Google for "Android Market Share"

4 hits were from the story here (no surprise there, latest news get priority)
1 was from the Sydney Morning Harold dated Dec 2012 showing Android beating iOS for the first time in Australia (source Telsyte)
1 was from Technobuffalo dated Aug 14 2013 showing Android as 79% up from 64% globally in 2012 (source Gartner)

Or you want to look at IDC's numbers which also show Android as over 70% for the quarter and a decline in Apple sales

You can cherry pick from any data set you want, all show Android is increasing and iOS is decreasing. You don't suppose they are all in the same building do you?

Re:“SOURCE: Strategy Analytics” (5, Informative)

fatphil (181876) | about 10 months ago | (#45298363)

They are in the same district of Seoul, but 1321-1 and 1320-10 are not just different buildings, they're not even the same block. Post codes aren't even the same 137-857 vs. 137-070.

Let's stick to facts - they are both in one of the most prestigious part of the capital city. Alas that's not really such a great conspiracy, is it?

Expensive Apple (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45297985)

Here in Australia, Apple have completely priced themselves out of the market.
iPhone 5S 16 GB: $869
Compared with a brand-spanking-new:
Google Nexus 5 16 GB: $420 (inc. shipping)
It's hard to justify _double_ the price for effectively the same thing.
Needless to say ... I just bought the Nexus 5.

Re:Expensive Apple (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 10 months ago | (#45298467)

Those prices are in line with North America as well. The Nexus 5 is a much better value than most Android phones though. The Samsung Galaxy S4 is in the same ballpark as the iPhone5. It's not just price, it's choice. You don't _have_ to buy a really expensive phone to get good performance, battery life, etc. Connectors follow standards. You can install software from different sources if you want. If you look at the iPhone 5c sales, I don't think price is what's hurting them, I think it's lock-in awareness as well. I hope Samsung is paying attention as they're sniffing at that as well.

Re:Expensive Apple (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298569)

The Nexus is so much cheaper than the S4 and iPhone 5 because it's sold basically at cost. Don't expect that pricing from companies that are trying to turn a profit on the hardware.

Re:Expensive Apple (1)

rjstanford (69735) | about 10 months ago | (#45298649)

Even more - compared to Apple, Google is selling the Nexus 5 at hardware cost and taking a very large loss on Android itself, selling it for nothing, in order to get their hands on your data.

Cheap on cost expenive on Price iPhone (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 10 months ago | (#45298619)

Those prices are in line with North America as well.

America is an unusual market that has a business model by carriers that allows for highly subsidised phones. So Price has less impact as well. It has allowed the iPhone which is a cheap phone with an expensive selling price to be massively profitable (The same model in china means it commands 1%). Samsung is selling phones with more expensive features (large screen, more memory, faster processor) at a cheaper price...as a direct competitor to Apple, something you perpetuate here, and it has also made it very profitable (well and they are cutting edge, manufacture in america, and have a large product range, using features customers want)

Re:Expensive Apple (0)

isorox (205688) | about 10 months ago | (#45298575)

Here in Australia, Apple have completely priced themselves out of the market.
iPhone 5S 16 GB: $869
Compared with a brand-spanking-new:
Google Nexus 5 16 GB: $420 (inc. shipping)
It's hard to justify _double_ the price for effectively the same thing.
Needless to say ... I just bought the Nexus 5.

I buy the thing I knows works and will let me do what I want with minimal of effort. $500 or $1000 for a phone, when my phone bill is $15,000/year? Just like with laptops, I wish I could buy a proper thinkpad, at $3k or $5k, I don't really care. My last t410s physically died after 3 years (screen fell out), so I have a replacement one that I still had in stock. It's the last one though. I'm not looking forward to 2015.

My wife's android phone is crap. I'm sure the nexus is better, but that's enough to put me off android.

iThingys are the same, whether it's on an tablet or a phone, it works. Now I'm not keen on ios7, so I may reconsider an android thingy, but the number of geeks at work that complain about their androids is shocking.

Re:Expensive Apple (1)

imsabbel (611519) | about 10 months ago | (#45298693)

How the hell do you get a 15k phone bill?

And why are you bragging about your stupidity to not get a contract to accomdate your usage profile?

Apple Fanboy (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45297987)

I'm an Apple Fanboy.
I don't care how many Android phones get sold. LA LA LA hands in my ears. Antenna gate - LA LA LA hands in my ears. Apple makes all of the money HA HA HA, Apple is best HA HA HA. Apple has the best hardware HA HA HA. Apple don't sell out to NSA HA HA HA..

Just thought i'd post it to save the Apple fanboys from dribbling all over this discussion forum.
Now everyone else can get on and discuss the repercussions of Android's solid domination.

As a canadian.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298269)

I'm sad to see Blackberry, a local company, getting so little love... They are still one of the best phone out there for business purpose but lack a few feature that many people take for granted these days. (an app store that doesn't s*ck and have people actually developing for it for example.)

Re:As a canadian.. (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298355)

What is it that Blackberry phones ostensibly do that other smartphones don't? Is it just that they have that little keyboard on there?

Facebook buy Blackberry (1)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 10 months ago | (#45298581)

I'm sad to see Blackberry, a local company, getting so little love... They are still one of the best phone out there for business purpose but lack a few feature that many people take for granted these days. (an app store that doesn't s*ck and have people actually developing for it for example.)

I always hoped that Facebook would buy them. Facebook is a killer app and a perfect march for BBM. With the Rise of Twitter(supported heavily by Apple!?), and Google+(supported by well Google). I think they have both missed a real opportunity.

Ahh, another no-name two-bit "analytics" firm! (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45298387)

Ahh, another no-name two-bit "analytics" firm! It's really hard to pry numbers out of anybody but Apple regarding the number of phones that are in the hands of actual consumers. Google likes to pussyfoot around with "activations" and Samsung will tell you how many they loaded into shipping crates, but nobody actually thinks they are purposefully this obscure regarding their phone numbers for no reason. And let's not even talk about Microsoft's dishonesty regarding their sales numbers.

These analytics firms all have serious issues, as well. They may pay a developer peanuts to throw their shitware / bloatware into a free game (or even a paid app, yikes!) and they might be able to get some of the more idiotic "home page" type setups like Gawker to put their scripts up, but they only ever manage to sample a small, small number of the actual smartphone users out there.

The most reliable numbers come from the Wikipedia, a resource used by most everybody. The Wikimedia Traffic Analysis Report obviates the need for shitty poo-butt bloatware "analytics" firms whose job it is to obscure an already obscure statistic, and the numbers for smartphones in September 2013 break down thusly:

Total Mobile: 29.5%, all Apple mobile OS versions: 18.1%, all Android versions: 8.47%, all Blackberry: 0.47%, all Windows Mobile: 0.33%.

Since we're only dealing with 29.5% of the total traffic to Wikimedia-related sites in the mobile category, a burst of quick math will tell us what percentage of all mobile devices are running which OS's. 61.78% of the mobile devices are Apple devices, 28.62% are Androids of ANY MAKE, 1.59% are Blackberries, and a whopping 1.11% are Windows Mobiles. This only totals to 93.1%, the rest being a bunch of other amalgamated nonsense brands like Sony or Symbian and "Linux Other" aka Nokia.

Quite a different story than the fuckin' crapware two-bit "analytics" firm's tale.

"But WAIT, RocketRabbit," you say, "We're talking third quarter here!" And to that I laugh, a big hearty har har har, as you are such a fuckin' twit that you don't realize that most of the companies out there are either flat-out lying about their numbers, aren't telling, or are going by some bullshit made-up statistic like Google's shady "activations." Oh, I know the numbers guys at lame ass investment firms need these percentages to justify quarterbacking loser companies for the next quarter, but they live in their own little fantasy world and real life facts are not important to their economic calculations.

So what's all this tell you? You're an idiot of the highest order if you think anybody but Apple is actually telling you how many phones they actually sold into the hands of consumers. And there's a reason they're not telling you, dummy!

Re:Ahh, another no-name two-bit "analytics" firm! (1)

shilly (142940) | about 10 months ago | (#45298469)

Your analysis may be disputable but props for the writing flair and wit.

Apple Window Dressing Figures. (2)

tuppe666 (904118) | about 10 months ago | (#45298565)

Ahh, another no-name two-bit "analytics" firm! It's really hard to pry numbers out of anybody but Apple regarding the number of phones that are in the hands of actual consumers. Google likes to pussyfoot around with "activations" and Samsung will tell you how many they loaded into shipping crates

Ironically for you Apple also publish "shipped" figures and they do so because they are confident they can sell their products, and I agree with them. Here is them defending their massive sales drop in iPads "Regarding iPad, Oppenheimer said the year-over-year drop in iPad numbers from 17 million to 14.6 million units was in part the tough comparison with last year’s debut f the third-generation model, with no such revamp this past spring, and also the reduction in channel inventory last quarter of 700,000 units versus a year-earlier build of 1.2 million units." http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderdaily/2013/07/23/apple-fyq2-call-the-iphone-beat-defending-ipad-margins-and-the-rest/ [barrons.com]

The bottom line is Apple is not competing effectively for market share, because of its weak...but incredibly profitable product line.

Re:Apple Window Dressing Figures. (2)

Sockatume (732728) | about 10 months ago | (#45298589)

Err, the very article you link to seems to indicate that Apple publishes "sold" figures and not "shipped" figures.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>