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A Plan To Fix Daylight Savings Time By Creating Two National Time Zones

timothy posted about a year ago | from the overdue-and-by-more-than-an-hour dept.

United States 545

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Allison Schrager writes in the Atlantic that losing another hour of evening daylight isn't just annoying. It's an economically harmful policy with minimal energy savings. "The actual energy savings are minimal, if they exist at all. Frequent and uncoordinated time changes cause confusion, undermining economic efficiency. There's evidence that regularly changing sleep cycles, associated with daylight saving, lowers productivity and increases heart attacks." So here's Schrager's proposal. This year, Americans on Eastern Standard Time should set their clocks back one hour (like normal), Americans on Central and Rocky Mountain time do nothing, and Americans on Pacific time should set their clocks forward one hour. This will result in just two time zones for the continental United States and the east and west coasts will only be one hour apart. "America already functions on fewer than four time zones," says Schrager. "I spent the last three years commuting between New York and Austin, living on both Eastern and Central time. I found that in Austin, everyone did things at the same times they do them in New York, despite the difference in time zone. People got to work at 8 am instead of 9 am, restaurants were packed at 6 pm instead of 7 pm, and even the TV schedule was an hour earlier. " Research based on time use surveys found American's schedules are already determined more by television than daylight suggesting, in effect, that Americans already live on two time zones. Schrager says that this strategy has already been proven to work in other parts of the world. China has been on one time zone since 1949, despite naturally spanning five time zones and in 1983, Alaska, which naturally spans four time zones, moved most of the state to a single time zone. "It sounds radical, but it really isn't. The purpose of uniform time measures is coordination. How we measure time has always evolved with the needs of commerce.," concludes Schrager. "Time is already arbitrary, why not make it work in our favor?""

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Daylight Saving Time (4, Informative)

Speare (84249) | about a year ago | (#45310319)

The title contains a pet peeve of mine: it's Daylight Saving Time, not 'savings.' It's not a bank where you deposit an hour and get it back in a 'savings account.'

Re:Daylight Saving Time (2)

zoomshorts (137587) | about a year ago | (#45310323)

Just leave the time alone. Arizona ignores it and they work fine.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (4, Funny)

Entropius (188861) | about a year ago | (#45310465)

When I lived in Arizona (beautiful place!), I explained this to folks as "We have enough daylight here already, why would we want to save any?"

Re:Daylight Saving Time (5, Insightful)

radiumsoup (741987) | about a year ago | (#45310543)

As a native Arizonan now living in Texas for the past 8 years, I still am not accustomed to the time changes, and am quite annoyed at the completely unnecessary practice.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (5, Funny)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#45310345)

But we do deposit an hour in the spring and withdraw it in the fall. The 0% interest rate just really sucks.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (5, Funny)

LordNimon (85072) | about a year ago | (#45310391)

No, we borrow an hour in the fall and pay it back in the spring, at 0% interest. So it's really free time!

Re:Daylight Saving Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310407)

Actually, it is just called Summer Time. Daylight Saving Time is American dialect.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (1)

radiumsoup (741987) | about a year ago | (#45310535)

Actually, it was originally "seasonal time", but the British now call it "Summer Time" and the Americans (along with Australians, most Russians, Canadians, Israelis, etc.) call it something equivalent to "Daylight Saving Time". The French call it "Advanced Time". [] []

Team Amerophobia loses the point.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (1)

temcat (873475) | about a year ago | (#45310611)

...most Russians...

As a Russian, nope. Most Russians call the thing "Summer Time" and "Winter Time" (depending on the season).

Re:Daylight Saving Time (-1)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | about a year ago | (#45310779)

In Soviet Russia, time save you!

Re:Daylight Saving Time (1)

BrokenHalo (565198) | about a year ago | (#45310759)

Actually, it is just called Summer Time. Daylight Saving Time is American dialect.

That depends. In the British Isles, it is known as "Summer Time" but in Australia as "daylight saving" (or a variety of more colourful epithets).

For the record: in the Australian context, the business community has made several attempts to force daylight saving[s] time on Western Australia over the years when I was resident there, but it was (and is) hugely unpopular, largely because for political reasons the "normal" datum is already ahead of the natural time for the longitude. Stepping out into 40-degree Celsius heat and blazing sunshine at 7.00pm gets old very quickly. However, now that I live in Tasmania, at a much lower latitude, changing the clocks makes slightly more sense, except that the dawn and dusk twilight periods make fiddling with the clocks more or less redundant.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (1)

MightyYar (622222) | about a year ago | (#45310409)

I call it "Savings". Ain't changing language grand?

Re:Daylight Saving Time (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310531)

I call it "Savings". Ain't changing language grand?

Yes, failing to get a simple thing right and regarding yourself as the better man for it is just wonderful.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310749)

This begs the question of whether you'd stand up for eliminating the use of the mistranslation of the latin phrase petitio principii (seeking the principles) for the logical fallacy which has nothing to do with begging or questions, and returning it to the plain English meaning of begging and questions.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (5, Funny)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about a year ago | (#45310425)

Would "Affordable Timecare Act" excite you more?

Re:Daylight Saving Time (1)

kjell79 (215108) | about a year ago | (#45310623)

I liked the old plan better. In my state, I need to move the clock back 1:23:42.

Re: Daylight Saving Time (5, Funny)

bondsbw (888959) | about a year ago | (#45310735)

It would certainly help those who have preexisting daylight saving time. But I would rather have a single-time system.

Obamatime doesn't let you use choose time from across state boundaries, most people lose more time than they gain, and nobody can find out the time because of the [] fiasco. Besides, the President doesnt even participate in it; he gets to keep his own time zone.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310755)

Just don't call it Obamatime, or they'll shut down the government again.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (5, Insightful)

memnock (466995) | about a year ago | (#45310443)

I hate that bloody time change. If we just get rid of it, we don't have to worry about what it's called at all.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (1)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | about a year ago | (#45310563)

But when you add a saving today, a saving tomorrow and a saving the next day, you do in fact get "savings" in daylight time. Or at least, that's what they want you to believe--I think they need to ditch the garbage completely. It causes more harm than good and is not worth fixing. We need reliable time, and you can't have that when you're forced to waste time fucking with your damn clocks every year. Just fucking give us standard time year round already, enough of this DST bullshit.

Re:Daylight Saving Time (1)

sribe (304414) | about a year ago | (#45310767)

It's not a bank where you deposit an hour and get it back in a 'savings account.'

But you do. You put an hour in, in the spring, and take it back out, in the fall ;-)

Sunrise (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310343)

Time may be arbitrary, but not when the sun rises and sets.

I volunteer Allison to live in the areas of the country where the sun rises at 3:00 in the morning.

Re:Sunrise (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310355)

No amount of daylight saving will make the daytime there last less than 18 hours, dear.

Re:Sunrise (1)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#45310365)

As mentioned in the summary, schedules are already poorly coordinated with sunrise and sunset. Electric lights got that ball rolling and television continued it. Unless you're one of those people who still use sundials instead of mechanical or electric clocks?

Re:Sunrise (5, Insightful)

trout007 (975317) | about a year ago | (#45310385)

Who gives a crap what the clock says? We could all just use Coordinated Universal Time. On the east coast I'd wake up at 1000 UTC have lunch at 1700 eat dinner at 2200 and go to bed at 0300.

Re:Sunrise (4, Funny)

rasmusbr (2186518) | about a year ago | (#45310647)

I've we're going to be ridiculously nerdy and arbitrary we could all just just use seconds since the start of 1970.

"When will you arrive?
"I'll be there at 1383.408 megaseconds. I'll call you in case I'm more than a kilosecond late."

Re:Sunrise (2)

BrokenHalo (565198) | about a year ago | (#45310777)

I've[sic] we're going to be ridiculously nerdy and arbitrary we could all just just use seconds since the start of 1970.

Which might be fine for you, but those of us who would thus have been born long before the beginning of time might be justified in being a little miffed.

Re:Sunrise (1)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about a year ago | (#45310785)

Depending on relative velocity, you may still have to adjust for EST (Einstein Saving Time).

How do you like midnight? (4, Interesting)

Overzeetop (214511) | about a year ago | (#45310411)

You should move to Scandinavia. Then you'll realize how silly is is for Americans to bitch about when the sun rises and sets in the extreme months.

Re:How do you like midnight? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310747)

Right. Because Alaska isn't part of the U.S. Why would we need to travel to a ridiculous part of the world just to see extreme daylight shifts.

Government & Stealth Malware (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310349)


Nobody Seems To Notice and Nobody Seems To Care â" Government & Stealth Malware

"In Response To Slashdot Article: Former Pentagon Analyst: China Has Backdoors To 80% of Telecoms

How many rootkits does the US[2] use officially or unofficially?

How much of the free but proprietary software in the US spies on you?

Which software would that be?

Visit any of the top freeware sites in the US, count the number of thousands or millions of downloads of free but proprietary software, much of it works, again on a proprietary Operating System, with files stored or in transit.

How many free but proprietary programs have you downloaded and scanned entire hard drives, flash drives, and other media? Do you realize you are giving these types of proprietary programs complete access to all of your computer's files on the basis of faith alone?

If you are an atheist, the comparison is that you believe in code you cannot see to detect and contain malware on the basis of faith! So you do believe in something invisible to you, don't you?

I'm now going to touch on a subject most anti-malware, commercial or free, developers will DELETE on most of their forums or mailing lists:

APT malware infecting and remaining in BIOS, on PCI and AGP devices, in firmware, your router (many routers are forced to place backdoors in their firmware for their government) your NIC, and many other devices.

Where are the commercial or free anti-malware organizations and individual's products which hash and compare in the cloud and scan for malware for these vectors? If you post on mailing lists or forums of most anti-malware organizations about this threat, one of the following actions will apply: your post will be deleted and/or moved to a hard to find or 'deleted/junk posts' forum section, someone or a team of individuals will mock you in various forms 'tin foil hat', 'conspiracy nut', and my favorite, 'where is the proof of these infections?' One only needs to search Google for these threats and they will open your malware world view to a much larger arena of malware on devices not scanned/supported by the scanners from these freeware sites. This point assumed you're using the proprietary Microsoft Windows OS. Now, let's move on to Linux.

The rootkit scanners for Linux are few and poor. If you're lucky, you'll know how to use chkrootkit (but you can use strings and other tools for analysis) and show the strings of binaries on your installation, but the results are dependent on your capability of deciphering the output and performing further analysis with various tools or in an environment such as Remnux Linux. None of these free scanners scan the earlier mentioned areas of your PC, either! Nor do they detect many of the hundreds of trojans and rootkits easily available on popular websites and the dark/deep web.

Compromised defenders of Linux will look down their nose at you (unless they are into reverse engineering malware/bad binaries, Google for this and Linux and begin a valuable education!) and respond with a similar tone, if they don't call you a noob or point to verifying/downloading packages in a signed repo/original/secure source or checking hashes, they will jump to conspiracy type labels, ignore you, lock and/or shuffle the thread, or otherwise lead you astray from learning how to examine bad binaries. The world of Linux is funny in this way, and I've been a part of it for many years. The majority of Linux users, like the Windows users, will go out of their way to lead you and say anything other than pointing you to information readily available on detailed binary file analysis.

Don't let them get you down, the information is plenty and out there, some from some well known publishers of Linux/Unix books. Search, learn, and share the information on detecting and picking through bad binaries. But this still will not touch the void of the APT malware described above which will survive any wipe of r/w media. I'm convinced, on both *nix and Windows, these pieces of APT malware are government in origin. Maybe not from the US, but most of the 'curious' malware I've come across in poisoned binaries, were written by someone with a good knowledge in English, some, I found, functioned similar to the now well known Flame malware. From my experience, either many forum/mailing list mods and malware developers/defenders are 'on the take', compromised themselves, and/or working for a government entity.

Search enough, and you'll arrive at some lone individuals who cry out their system is compromised and nothing in their attempts can shake it of some 'strange infection'. These posts receive the same behavior as I said above, but often they are lone posts which receive no answer at all, AT ALL! While other posts are quickly and kindly replied to and the 'strange infection' posts are left to age and end up in a lost pile of old threads.

If you're persistent, the usual challenge is to, "prove it or STFU" and if the thread is not attacked or locked/shuffled and you're lucky to reference some actual data, they will usually attack or ridicule you and further drive the discussion away from actual proof of APT infections.

The market is ripe for an ambitious company or individual to begin demanding companies and organizations who release firmware and design hardware to release signed and hashed packages and pour this information into the cloud, so everyone's BIOS is checked, all firmware on routers, NICs, and other devices are checked, and malware identified and knowledge reported and shared openly.

But even this will do nothing to stop backdoored firmware (often on commercial routers and other networked devices of real importance for government use â" which again opens the possibility of hackers discovering these backdoors) people continue to use instead of refusing to buy hardware with proprietary firmware/software.

Many people will say, "the only safe computer is the one disconnected from any network, wireless, wired, LAN, internet, intranet" but I have seen and you can search yourself for and read about satellite, RF, temperature, TEMPEST (is it illegal in your part of the world to SHIELD your system against some of these APT attacks, especially TEMPEST? And no, it's not simply a CRT issue), power line and many other attacks which can and do strike computers which have no active network connection, some which have never had any network connection. Some individuals have complained they receive APT attacks throughout their disconnected systems and they are ridiculed and labeled as a nutter. The information exists, some people have gone so far as to scream from the rooftops online about it, but they are nutters who must have some serious problems and this technology with our systems could not be possible.

I believe most modern computer hardware is more powerful than many of us imagine, and a lot of these systems swept from above via satellite and other attacks. Some exploits take advantage of packet radio and some of your proprietary hardware. Some exploits piggyback and unless you really know what you're doing, and even then⦠you won't notice it.

Back to the Windows users, a lot of them will dismiss any strange activity to, "that's just Windows!" and ignore it or format again and again only to see the same APT infected activity continue. Using older versions of sysinternals, I've observed very bizarre behavior on a few non networked systems, a mysterious chat program running which doesn't exist on the system, all communication methods monitored (bluetooth, your hard/software modems, and more), disk mirroring software running[1], scans running on different but specific file types, command line versions of popular Windows freeware installed on the system rather than the use of the graphical component, and more.

[1] In one anonymous post on pastebin, claiming to be from an intel org, it blasted the group Anonymous, with a bunch of threats and information, including that their systems are all mirrored in some remote location anyway.

[2] Or other government, US used in this case due to the article source and speculation vs. China. This is not to defend China, which is one messed up hell hole on several levels and we all need to push for human rights and freedom for China's people. For other, freer countries, however, the concentration camps exist but you wouldn't notice them, they originate from media, mostly your TV, and you don't even know it. As George Carlin railed about "Our Owners", "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".

[3] []

Try this yourself on a wide variety of internet forums and mailing lists, push for malware scanners to scan more than files, but firmware/BIOS. See what happens, I can guarantee it won't be pleasant, especially with APT cases.

So scan away, or blissfully ignore it, but we need more people like RMS[3] in the world. Such individuals tend to be eccentric but their words ring true and clear about electronics and freedom.

I believe we're mostly pwned, whether we would like to admit it or not, blind and pwned, yet fiercely holding to misinformation, often due to lack of self discovery and education, and "nobody seems to notice and nobody seems to care".


Schneier has covered it before: power line fluctuations (differences on the wire in keys pressed).

There's thermal attacks against cpus and temp, also:

ENF (google it)

A treat (ENF Collector in Java):

sourceforge dot net fwdslash projects fwdslash nfienfcollector

No single antimalware scanner exists which offers the ability to scan (mostly proprietary) firmware on AGP/PCI devices (sound cards, graphics cards, usb novelty devices excluding thumb drives), BIOS/CMOS.

If you boot into ultimate boot cd you can use an archane text interface to dump BIOS/CMOS and examine/checksum.

The real attacks which survive disk formats and wipes target your PCI devices and any firmware which may be altered/overwritten with something special. It is not enough to scan your hard drive(s) and thumb drives, the real dangers with teeth infect your hardware devices.

When is the last time you:

Audited your sound card for malware?
Audited your graphics card for malware?
Audited your network card for malware?

Google for:

* AGP and PCI rootkit(s)
* Network card rootkit(s)
* BIOS/CMOS rootkit(s)

Our modern PC hardware is capable of much more than many can imagine.

Do you:

        Know your router's firmware may easily be replaced on a hacker's whim?
        Shield all cables against leakage and attacks
        Still use an old CRT monitor and beg for TEMPEST attacks?
        Use TEMPEST resistant fonts in all of your applications including your OS?
        Know whether or not your wired keyboard has keypresses encrypted as they pass to your PC from the keyboard?
        Use your PC on the grid and expose yourself to possible keypress attacks?
        Know your network card is VERY exploitable when plugged into the net and attacked by a hard core blackhat or any vicious geek with the know how?
        Search out informative papers on these subjects and educate your friends and family about these attacks?
        Contact antimalware companies and urge them to protect against many or all these attacks?

Do you trust your neighbors? Are they all really stupid when it comes to computing or is there a geek or two without a conscience looking to exploit these areas?

The overlooked threat are the potential civilian rogues stationed around you, especially in large apartment blocks who feed on unsecured wifi to do their dirty work.

With the recent news of Russian spies, whether or not this news was real or a psyop, educate yourself on the present threats which all antimalware scanners fail to protect against and remove any smug mask you may wear, be it Linux or OpenBSD, or the proprietary Windows and Mac OS you feel are properly secured and not vulnerable to any outside attacks because you either don't need an antivirus scanner (all are inept to serious attacks) or use one or several (many being proprietary mystery machines sending data to and from your machine for many reasons, one is to share your information with a group or set database to help aid in threats), the threats often come in mysterious ways.

Maybe the ancients had it right: stone tablets and their own unique language(s) rooted in symbolism.


I'm more concerned about new rootkits which target PCI devices, such as the graphics card and the optical drives, also, BIOS. Where are the malware scanners which scan PCI devices and BIOS for mismatches? All firmware, BIOS and on PCI devices should be checksummed and saved to match with others in the cloud, and archived when the computer is first used, backing up signed firmware.

When do you recall seeing signed router firmware upgrades with any type of checksum to check against? Same for PCI devices and optical drives and BIOS.

Some have begun with BIOS security: []

Some BIOS has write protection in its configuration, a lot of newer computers don't.


"Disconnect your PC from the internet and don't add anything you didn't create yourself. It worked for the NOC list machine in Mission Impossible"

The room/structure was likely heavily shielded, whereas most civvies don't shield their house and computer rooms. There is more than meets the eye to modern hardware.


subversion hack:

UPDATE on tagmeme domain - 11/2013 - You'll have to use to recover and view pages and files from the tagmeme domain as it has been abandoned and the content removed.

network card rootkits and trojans
pci rootkits
packet radio
xmit "fm fingerprinting" software
"specific emitter identification"

how many malware scanners scan bios/cmos and pci/agp cards for malware? zero, even the rootkit scanners. have you checksummed/dumped your bios/cmos and firmware for all your pci/agp devices and usb devices, esp vanity usb devices in and outside the realm of common usb devices (thumbdrives, external hdds, printers),

Unless your computer room is shielded properly, the computers may still be attacked and used, I've personally inspected computers with no network connection running mysterious code in the background which task manager for windows and the eqiv for *nix does not find, and this didn't find it all.

Inspect your windows boot partition in *nix with hexdump and look for proxy packages mentioned along with command line burning programs and other oddities. Computers are more vulnerable than most would expect.

You can bet all of the malware scanners today, unless they are developed by some lone indy coder in a remote country, employ whitelisting of certain malware and none of them scan HARDWARE devices apart from the common usb devices.

Your network cards, sound cards, cd/dvd drives, graphics cards, all are capable of carrying malware to survive disk formatting/wiping.

Boot from a Linux live cd and use hexdump to examine your windows (and *nix) boot sectors to potentially discover interesting modifications by an unknown party.


whiny fucking new yorkers (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310371)

Wahh..its a different time than it is in New York. Wahh wahh, resetting my clock when flying to hipster douchebag towns like Austin is too fucking hard! WAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!

How about GMT? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310377)

Can't we just standardize with 1 time zone and shift our schedules to conform to that?

Or, how about all of use move to the UK, Portugal or one of the W African nations that are on 'zulu' time? That would fix things.

I just wish my car clock were correct more than 50% of the year.

Re:How about GMT? (1)

hurwak-feg (2955853) | about a year ago | (#45310493)

Agreed. A universal time is the way to go. Why should everyone change there schedule by an hour twice a year based on something arbitrary? What really sucks is working night shift and having to set the clock back an hour while at work...

Re:How about GMT? (1)

i_ate_god (899684) | about a year ago | (#45310603)

What's really awesome though, is being at the pub and having to set the clock back an hour while drinkiing!

like that works (5, Insightful)

peragrin (659227) | about a year ago | (#45310383)

time zones exist because the sun sets later in the west than it does in the east. It was a fact I knew but didn't fully grasp until I moved 400 miles east along roughly the same latitude in the same eastern time zone. We were sitting outside enjoying a camp fire on the summer solstice when some one asked when the sun would set. Having spent many a summer outside at my previous place I knew it would roughly be 9pm. however I didn't take into account the difference 400 miles makes. The sun really set 30 minutes earlier.

Now in a corporate world time zones only matter in relation to when other people will be at their desks. However in the real world, where one has kids, and after school sports, hell even trick or treating, it makes all the difference in the world. Those on the eastern edge will always be screwed by things shutting down earlier. As so much just can't be done after dark, and it gets really expensive to light up every field, park, and body of water just to be able to live life after work.

Re:like that works (4, Funny)

Mr D from 63 (3395377) | about a year ago | (#45310503)

Time zones are an evil scheme intended to divide humanity and ensure some groups are always behind.

Re:like that works (1)

Kjella (173770) | about a year ago | (#45310685)

As so much just can't be done after dark, and it gets really expensive to light up every field, park, and body of water just to be able to live life after work.

But that's where our current time zones are totally off the mark. I just checked and today the sun rises at 8 AM and sets at 4 PM (yes, I'm quite far north) and guess what my working hours are? Basically I go to work at dawn, sit in an office until dusk then go home and enjoy the whole evening in darkness with artificial lights. I get it, some occupations like construction depends on natural lighting but by far the majority work indoors like me where it matters very little if it's dark outside or not. If we really wanted to provide optimal daylight the sun would shine 4PM-12PM instead. I really doubt I'd spend any more electricity 8AM-4PM than I do today 4PM-12PM, the difference is that I could spend that time outdoors in the sun instead of being stuck in an office.

The current time zones were set in a time when you tried to preserve candles, lamp oil and firewood. People worked from sunrise to sunset, often on a farm or other outdoor work and spent the nights mostly in the dark. Today it's completely backwards and we should change it so that we work in the dark and have our time off when the sun is up. Today you go home and it's pitch dark when you come home so you end up doing some sort of passive activity like watch TV, sit at the computer, read a book or whatever. If it was daylight outside you could do something, anything it'd be almost like a small weekend every day. It'd be wonderful.

Re:like that works (2)

tchuladdiass (174342) | about a year ago | (#45310703)

Well here's a strange thought. If you don't have enough daylight after work, how about going to work an hour early, and getting out an hour early? Nothing really gets done early or late in the work day anyway, so co-ordinating with others' time in the office shouldn't bee that big of a deal (as long as everyone is there during a core 5-hour period).

Not a good idea (2)

weave (48069) | about a year ago | (#45310387)

The reason for timezones is to somewhat coordinate daylight with when we are up and about. Obviously this can be shift a bit each way and the seasons certain screw with that, but on the plan OP posted, the west coast would be light until after 1am in the Summer and remain dark until about 10am in the Winter.

If you'd want to do two zones, they should be at least two hours apart from each other.

Do Away With It! (4, Insightful)

DaMattster (977781) | about a year ago | (#45310393)

I say just do away with daylight savings time altogether! All we really need is two time zones: one for east of the Mississippi and one for the west. Simplicity is underrated.

Re:Do Away With It! (1)

Mr D from 63 (3395377) | about a year ago | (#45310473)

Just make sure we do away with DST after the autumn change.

Re:Do Away With It! (5, Funny)

squiggleslash (241428) | about a year ago | (#45310479)

I once read a long pointless diatribe against standard time demanding that we make Daylight Saving's Time permanent - that's an hour of my life I'll never get back...


Re: Do Away With It! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310575)

Just think about all of the time you've lost just reading pointless drivel in comments sections over the years!

Re:Do Away With It! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310505)

Lots of cities right on the Mississippi are going to hate that plan.

Re:Do Away With It! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310523)

Since I cross the Mississippi to get to work, I'm not sure I could handle leaving for work at 6:30 in the morning and arriving 15 minutes later at 5:45.

Re:Do Away With It! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310533)

I doubt Hawaii would go along with that!

The best way to fix Daylight Saving Time (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310399)

Is to abolish it. It serves no legitimate purpose anymore. Standard time for all!

In Soviet Russia... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310547)

... they abolished Standard Time and kept DST.

Really, they did.

Re:The best way to fix Daylight Saving Time (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310689)

Absolutely. Summer time is a horrible failed experiment from last century. It doesn't save energy, no matter what the supporters claim. If you really want to have more time in the evening, why are you living by fixed schedules and adjusting your clock when you could simply adjust the schedule and leave the clock alone. It'd make all my date calculations far easier, too.

Time zones are also fairly annoying, but they're a necessary evil for avoiding day changes in the middle of a light cycle and to avoid too much skew within a metro area. Still, I'd prefer if they were abolished as well.

Technically, the best solution is if time was specific to your location. You could easily make watches, phones, and cars automatically track it using global positioning signals (they provide UTC and you can triangulate your location, so calculating the correct local time is trivial). You could at least reduce it to 1 degree increments. Few metro areas (Los Angeles being one of very few prime examples) would have more than 5 minutes of disparity from edge to edge.

Sure, whatever, do it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310413)

Go ahead, do whatever you want to the time system. Give each country its own zone, move us all to UTC, switch us over to .beats, whatever. I really don't care. Just make sure my sys-libs/timezone-data is updated and that you don't break NTP while doing it.

UTC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310415)

I'm rarely in a meeting where more than half the people are on the same hemisphere, let alone timezone. If you're going to make time correspond to anything other than the position of the sun, then why don't we all just swich to UTC?

Re:UTC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310509)

Because Having everyone have meetings at the same time means whoever doesn't live at HQ's city has to work a shift that will never let them sleep normal hours.

If everyone was on UTC, that also means many businesses would have to operate 24/7.

If you don't follow my logic...

Banks, Post offices and Government services are all 9-5 jobs, they don't work on weekends. As soon as you start changing the times now the bank time in UTC is 1am to 9am in New York and 4am to noon in San Francisco

Basically it shifts the problem from coordinating business hours and meetings from a locally relevant time to an irrelevant one. The only ideal condition for this is for all businesses to operate 24/7, thus not having to coordinate anything.

What the world needs is to operate on just 4 time zones, India, America Time(Central), Europe/Africa Time(Germany), Australia/Asia Time(Japan) And operate like this:

Most of America operates currently in Pacific time or Eastern Time, and most people would probably not care if there was just one time zone here because it would mean everyone could watch the same TV show at the same time. Most people not in Eastern Time get screwed already by live events held in Eastern Time.

Unlike switching to UTC, just having a continent-wide time zone that only overlaps by about 4 hours allows the time to be locally relevant (some stores may choose to open at 7am some may choose 11am... there are stores in pacific time that do this anyway) without having to operate 24/7

Only computers can use UTC because they do not need to sleep.

Re:UTC (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310581)

Only computers can use UTC because they do not need to sleep.

UTC doesn't tell you when to sleep.

Stop changing it already (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310423)

Seems some busybody wants to change the status quo every few years, which leads to a lot of patches. Stop it already. Take a vacation during switch or something to acclimate to the new hours.

Epic Stupidity (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310427)

Daylight saving time is a pain, that I would like to see eradicated. I've lived in areas that adhere to DST and I've lived in areas that don't, though they have all been in lower latitudes. In those lower latitudes, no DST is a far superior system. I'm uncertain how it would feel in upper latitudes.

But, two time zones is ridiculous outside of fantasy land.

Screw that - let's go Roman! (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | about a year ago | (#45310431) []

With computerized everything, we can just alter the days in perfect sync. And once we kill television schedules and make everything on demand it won't matter "when" something comes on!

Quit your whining (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310437)

Do something more productive, instead of jetting back and forth between time zones and causing Global Warming just take a pill or something and chill out.

I don't see the problem (4, Insightful)

fermion (181285) | about a year ago | (#45310453)

I have been changing clocks all my life and it simply has not been the nerve racking. I don't know where all the drama is coming from.

And less so now when most clocks are set automatically, and the few that aren't have 'dst' switches. Get to work an hour earlier or an hour later. It is just one of those costs of living in society. I know some people are very compulsive, and this causes stress, but I see DST no more inconvenient than speed limits. If there is a real problem it is that instead of just going with majority rule on something that is largely trivial, some communities are boneheads and want everything their way.

That said, I think most of the reasons for DST have diminished with time. While switching is easier now, the world is different. The fact that the US is now completely linked with instant communication and many people are now no longer primarily part of one region is a factor.

At some point a rational discussion on this will be possible, and it will likely end. Some of this going to be generational. While some of the world have been using DST from the early 20th century, in the US has only been widespread for maybe 50 years. This means that some people who are very attached to it are still alive.

Re:I don't see the problem (2)

hurwak-feg (2955853) | about a year ago | (#45310519)

So if it causes some people stress with little benefit (possibly even detriment) to millions of people, it is not a big deal? Sounds like a big deal to me.

An hour difference (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310529)

An hour difference in my sleep has the affect of a couple drinks on me.

I wake up groggy and tank up with caffeine - which results in an attention span of a gnat.

And I'm driving on the road with you.

Re:I don't see the problem (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310625)

And less so now when most clocks are set automatically, and the few that aren't have 'dst' switches

Which of course was broken when Congress and the President decided to move the time changes in the fall and spring for no reason. Many of those automatic clocks now don't work correctly and can't be reprogrammed. So yes, it is a big deal. Also, you still see cases of DST causing problems in computer systems and mobile devices.

Here's the rational discussion: there is simply no need for DST. Anyone attached to it is not being rational. Whether we have two, four, or six time zones is meaningless to me. But moving time around arbitrarily is complete nonsense.

Re:I don't see the problem (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310763)

Why do weeks need to be 7 days? There is no need for it. Can't we just make a week, 10 days long? Anyone who doesn't agree with me is not being rational.

Re:I don't see the problem (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310751)

so, why not schedule work an hour earlier, instead of forcing everyone to change their clocks?

Nov 4th 2013 is the day everyone shows up at 8 instead of 9.

concluding with a question (2)

fche (36607) | about a year ago | (#45310455)

Why can't a conclusion be phrased as a statement instead of as a rhetorical question?

Re:concluding with a question (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310627)

I don't see a rhetorical question in "How we measure time has always evolved with the needs of commerce."

Re:concluding with a question (1)

fche (36607) | about a year ago | (#45310705)

That could be because your quote is not at the end of either in the slashdot extract or the original article.

regular changing sleep cycles?????? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310463)

Half a year you go to sleep with one hour difference. People change their sleeping activities more frequently voluntarily.
This change doesn't show statistically.

Safety (1)

gary_johnson_53 (962158) | about a year ago | (#45310467)

Putting more of the morning commute for schoolkids in the light is a good reason for DST

Re:Safety (1)

F. Lynx Pardinus (2804961) | about a year ago | (#45310515)

Sounds like your school district needs to set the school hours so that the start hour in winter is later than the sunrise hour. I'm not sure why you would blame the clock or time zone for the decisions of your school superintendent.

Re:Safety (1)

bws111 (1216812) | about a year ago | (#45310557)

Yes, they could do that. But guess what - most of those kids have parents who work. So you make the starting time of school later - are their parents still at home to get them off to school, or did they already leave for work? Oh, you say, let the parents go to work later too. But what if the timing of their jobs is dependant on other things, like the opening hours of a business. What do you do then, just open the business an hour later? This would have an enormous ripple effect. So why not just make it easy on everyone, and move the clocks?

Re:Safety (1)

F. Lynx Pardinus (2804961) | about a year ago | (#45310615)

You're describing an issue that's independent of DST. School districts have school hours, job have work hours, and people have to coordinate the two, which often don't match.

Re:Safety (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310541)

Or the schools could change what time they start during the season to adjust for local light.
Why do the *clocks* have to change to adjust for local issues ? Its just nonsense.

Sunset at 3:11 p.m.? (4, Interesting)

kurisuto (165784) | about a year ago | (#45310469)

Part of the proposal here is to reduce the U.S. to two time zones. The Eastern time zone would be on the same time as what's now Central Standard Time.

I'm in Boston, MA. Under the proposed change, sunset in December would come at 3:11 p.m. Um, no, thanks.

Re:Sunset at 3:11 p.m.? (1)

kjell79 (215108) | about a year ago | (#45310653)

I don't think that's the case. In what is currently the eastern time zone, we would roll the clock back by an hour the same way we normally would and leave it there for good. The central time zone would do nothing. So the sunset would be the same 4:11pm in December as it always was (if we did nothing this Autumn it would be 5:11pm instead). It would be much later in the central time zone depending on how far south you are.

Get rid of that stupid anachronism.. (1)

silverdr (779097) | about a year ago | (#45310497)

.. which is time zones in the first place. They stem from the times when circumnavigating the globe took months if not years, and even back then it was not really useful. Time zones in general bring more harm than good and they only exist in order to feed our habits of having specific digits on the clock when we do various things. Whenever there is a need for something unambiguous and not susceptible to errors people learned long ago that the only way is to use single time description for the whole planet. Aviation, military and many other services use the only reasonable, unambiguous time description: "Zulu time" aka UTC. When you really think deeply and throw away the "that's impossible" prejudices about time zones - there is really nothing that we would lose by throwing away them completely and saving lots of confusion, unnecessary dealing with them, unnecessary handling of errors with them, etc.. There is only one thing that would be very difficult to adjust ourselves to: New Year would have to start in full sun in some places...

Do Some Homework Allison (3, Insightful)

dcw3 (649211) | about a year ago | (#45310501)

"The actual energy savings are minimal, if they exist at all."

Blah, blah, blah...She obviously doesn't know if they're minimal, because she doesn't know if they exist. You can love or hate it, but at least if you're going to argue for one side or the other, present some fucking facts.

Re:Do Some Homework Allison (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310537)

My fact is that I don't want to lose my extra hour in bed, and I've already coded everything for compensation. So I'd lose all the hours of work, plus an hour of sleep. 1 Universal time zone I might consider, even more likely if it always begins with Star Date..

Re:Do Some Homework Allison (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310757)

Did you RTFA? The link she provides explains that the extension of DST in California in 2008 had little or no effect on energy consumption in California.

So she provided the facts, you are just a stupid fuck for not reading the goddamn article.

The only thing more wasteful ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310527)

The only thing more wasteful than Daylight Saving Time is all the time people spend griping about it and pushing some great plan to eliminate it.

Terrible idea. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310545)

I can see so many flaws in the thinking here it's just not funny.

But hey, journo's can say what they like and not really correctly weighted references to their reasoning.

'There's evidence that regularly changing sleep cycles, associated with daylight saving, lowers productivity and increases heart attacks'

So how regular is twice a year? This entire line makes me wonder where these people get their PhD's from.

Heart attacks (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310555)

It's absolutely true. Every day that clocks go back an hour, heart attacks increase by approximately 4%. In fact, the incidence of many phenomena seems to increase by 4% on these strange days. What an enigma.

China's Single Time Zone (4, Insightful)

Phoenix666 (184391) | about a year ago | (#45310585)

Yes, China's 5 time zones operate on a single time zone, which works great if you're in Beijing, but sucks balls if you're one of the poor schmucks in Urumqi who has to get to work at 3am.

I'm not going through this again... (5, Insightful)

acroyear (5882) | about a year ago | (#45310593)

When the Bush-era change happened, I supervised the change in my company, having to track the dozens of updates of Windows, Java, and Oracle (often because each one had to incorporate a patch to detect if one of the other two had not actually been patched). This amounted to basically $50,000 of my companies dollars wasted for no actual benefit - $50,000 just to say we still worked.

And the worst thing about it all was that even after all that money on our part, and on the part of Microsoft, Sun, and Oracle (who saw even less money relative to the efforts it took), nobody would be able to say 100% that it was "right". There still could have been one stupid little detail that would have gotten it wrong on the day of the switch or projecting forward to the switch-back.

Current estimates is that the DST change of 2005 cost the economy $5 billion in expenses *just to keep working at all* - that's 5 billion that wasn't spent on improvements, or new features, or anything actually giving new value to their customers. It simply ceased to exist, for the illusion of savings in other markets (energy and retail) that never materialized.

And I still saw most of my local trick-or-treaters after dark, so saying an extra hour of light for Halloween also was a pointless exercise.

Re:I'm not going through this again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310729)

When the Bush-era change happened, I supervised the change in my company, having to track the dozens of updates of Windows, Java, and Oracle (often because each one had to incorporate a patch to detect if one of the other two had not actually been patched). This amounted to basically $50,000 of my companies dollars wasted for no actual benefit - $50,000 just to say we still worked.

And the worst thing about it all was that even after all that money on our part, and on the part of Microsoft, Sun, and Oracle (who saw even less money relative to the efforts it took), nobody would be able to say 100% that it was "right". There still could have been one stupid little detail that would have gotten it wrong on the day of the switch or projecting forward to the switch-back.

Current estimates is that the DST change of 2005 cost the economy $5 billion in expenses *just to keep working at all* - that's 5 billion that wasn't spent on improvements, or new features, or anything actually giving new value to their customers. It simply ceased to exist, for the illusion of savings in other markets (energy and retail) that never materialized.

And I still saw most of my local trick-or-treaters after dark, so saying an extra hour of light for Halloween also was a pointless exercise.

Keep that cost in mind as you read other Americans argue there is nothing wrong with keep doing DST changes because they have not problem with it, blah blah blah... And then think about how DST wastes I.T. staff resources, and think about how the world is moving more and more into I.T.

Then you will reach the inevitable conclusion that Americans' stupidity is going to eventually kill American's advantage in IT. As you said, $5B per year just to keep working for 2005, and that bill is going to get bigger every year, not even counting any potential for hiccups when things don't go smoothly. All the while China has only one time zone and no DST changes at all.

Re:I'm not going through this again... (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about a year ago | (#45310773)

Current estimates is that the DST change of 2005 cost the economy $5 billion in expenses *just to keep working at all* - that's 5 billion that wasn't spent on improvements, or new features, or anything actually giving new value to their customers. It simply ceased to exist, for the illusion of savings in other markets (energy and retail) that never materialized.

If it cost $5B in expenses, that means somebody enjoyed $5B in revenues. OTOH, if it cost business $5B in lossed economic activity, that would be a drain on the economy. Almost all studies tied to the cost/benefit of DST are contradictory because there are so many variables and methodologies involved.

These studies do aggree, however, that retailers prefer DST because it brings in more customers, traffic safety is improved because of more light for evening commutes and people tend to be more active outside than they would have been without it (leading to health benefits). So, while corporate America might not like it, consumer America, evidently does. And it is consumerism that ultimately driving the economy.

BTW, if the time shifts are causing so much disruption for big business, there's nothing to say they have to keep the same work schedule. They could just as easily change their start and stop times to coincide with the change to/from DST. You would think if it would save them $5B, they would jump at that. Chances are, they know the changeover doesn't cost them that much and that is why they don't.

Wait... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310663)

"People got to work at 8 am instead of 9 am, restaurants were packed at 6 pm instead of 7 pm"
People wake up at 9am to work in New York and eat their dinner at 7pm?
I'm Canadian, in the same timezone(EST) and we generally wake at 6AM to work at 7AM and eat between 5~6PM here... What is wrong with you americans?

heart attacks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310671)

"daylight saving [...] increases heart attacks."
Especially in the group of people that regularly get angry about daylight saving.

how about getting rid of timezones entirely (2)

ILongForDarkness (1134931) | about a year ago | (#45310675)

What does it matter if we happen to live somewhere where the clocks say 7pm when the sun rises? I say one global time and you just use common sense when calling people far away ... like you got to do now when calling overseas anyways. I don't remember when daylight savings kicks in in Germany but I know they are ~4-6 hours away so sometime before noon seems okay.

Heck we could even schedule things with the sun like people that work for themselves (farmers, construction etc) already can. You go to work sunrise + 1hr and work whatever number of hours that are expected. Everyone gets some daylight hours to themselves sure more in summer than winter but you aren't trying to dance the time around so that you can try to get some daylight only to epically fail in the northern latitudes: I live near Toronto sunrise in the winter is ~8am and sunset around 5 so you can literally commute to work in the dark and it is dark by the time you live the office seeing the sun for 0 hrs a day isn't a good thing if for no other reason than sometimes you need to do something outside where you can see what you are doing.

I fight this in the office all the time and I don't see why cross office/company interaction needs to be any different: we need to remove the dependency on concurrent interaction. People send email and then knock on the door 10 min later and ask if you've seen it. We need to get in the habit of planning work enough that we can wait a couple days for a reply almost always and then learn to wait patiently not block waiting to make progress because we insist on dealing with things one at a time regardless of if the necessary person has time at the moment.

Re:how about getting rid of timezones entirely (1)

ILongForDarkness (1134931) | about a year ago | (#45310699)

Oh and I might add that almost everything doesn't have to happen right now so running on an interrupt based scheduling model is just silly. Example from my work: Really you need this bug in the dev branch fixed RIGHT NOW? Really? When is the next integration build going to run? When is the next release? I'm pretty sure almost always things can wait a few hours and this is with CI since our test runs take 10hrs to run you are on average 5hrs away from anything that will affect others. Shipping at most companies happens roughly twice a day morning shipments and afternoon shipments. So again things are inherently batchy and as long as it happens within the batch that it comes in/is required happening right now doesn't matter we still aren't sending an empty truck out the LA with your one part on it, fed ex is still probably only going to send their guy around once a day etc.

Everyday, I like to put a little time aside (1)

vm146j2 (233075) | about a year ago | (#45310679)

. . . then at the end of the year, I have a few days to myself.

- Steven Wright

Several flaws in this argument. (4, Insightful)

adjectivity (2835755) | about a year ago | (#45310691)

1. Human beings don't need daylight. Evolution disagrees with you. 2. Americans schedule their day based on television. The trends towards time shifting the medium are increasing. The television audience is decreasing due to competing forms of entertainment. 3. It would be easy. Our infrastructure is built around the current framework. Who here has seen bugs from moving DST this week? I know I have. 4. States would cooperate with this plan when we have two that ignore the established system. We have states that enjoy flaunting less intrusive national laws that effect far fewer individuals. 5. Congress can't even pass a budget. They have important issues that need to be addressed that they are unable to resolve. The ineptitude and inefficiencies are dragging down our economy, our reputation and our elected representatives seem to only be concerned with their own jobs. If you want to fix something, let's start with something that is actually broken.

Interesting idea. Never gonna happen. (1)

mark_reh (2015546) | about a year ago | (#45310707)

You think it might happen because it would be good for the economy in general? Did you learn nothing from the recent government shutdown and threats to limit the debt ceiling? Our "representatives" in congress don't give a shit about the economy at large, only their own personal economies.

The only way this could happen is if there was a huge financial player interested in it happening. Why would one of those guys spend money and political capital to push something like this through congress if they aren't going to make a decent financial return on it? It can't/won't happen until someone figures out how to make a boat-load of money from the change. Until then, forget it.

The only real fix (1)

GIL_Dude (850471) | about a year ago | (#45310711)

There is only one real fix - abolish time zones completely. As the summary states, time is arbitrary. Duration may be based on something concrete (like the decay of a particle or something), but the actual time itself is indeed arbitrary. Let's just agree that everyone uses UTC and call it done. Can you imagine the benefit? When is that world cup football (US: soccer) match on? Oh, at 17:00. Who gives a rat's ass where it is now? It is on when it is on. No, hmm, it is in Brazil, that is x time zones from me - wait am I forward x or back y from that - heck, when the fuck is it on! Just one time. World wide. Why does it matter if we get up at 23:30? It is arbitrary. If your boss then expects you at work at 2:00 - fine. Later in the year, if they want to change that to 3:00, no problem. But the time itself is just a referent. There is absolutely no reason that it cannot be 14:00 in California, Singapore, and the UK at the same instant. Who cares where the sun appears to be if you look up at that same instant? It doesn't matter. What matters much more is being able to coordinate things easily on a global scale. Get it done!

Completely unrelated? (4, Insightful)

InvisiBill (706958) | about a year ago | (#45310719)

The article seems to state that the problem is the constant changing of the time forward and backward due to DST. The proposed solution involves one final change at a regular DST interval, then no longer using DST. However, that change also involves redefining our four US timezones into two as well. I understand that it may be easier to make major timezone changes all at once, but I'm not sure the second is really related to the first.

I've seen other suggestions about simply not using DST anymore. It sure seems to me that today's modern technology and 24x7 scheduling make the idea of shifting daylight hours to different parts of the clock seem a bit outdated. Do we really save that much electricity on lighting to counteract the issues of dealing with changing the time around every six months?

Something I read previously suggested switching to Summer time and no longer using Winter time. Here in Michigan, it starts getting colder and darker earlier, then the DST change hits and it's suddenly dark pretty much as soon as you leave work. I'm not a fan of the author's suggestion to switch to Winter time (even if it is the "Standard" time) permanently. I'd much rather deal with dark mornings and have a little bit of light after work during the winter. I'm at the later edge of Eastern Time, so this effect should be even worse for those on the East Coast who would be seeing sunrise and sunset before me.

The author seems to make some reasonable points about people matching their activities to other timezones. I don't have enough experience to say whether that's really true for the majority of people, so as to justify converting the whole timezone. If we were to do this timezone rearrangement, the DST change might be a good time to do it, since people are already accustomed to moving their clocks an hour. However, I don't think it really has anything to do with the DST change, and personally I don't like the idea of my timezone moving to Winter time permanently.

Humans are diurnal (4, Insightful)

swm (171547) | about a year ago | (#45310739)

Humans are diurnal (dI-UR-nal).
It means we sleep when it's dark and wake when it's light. (compare nocturnal)

The primary purpose of DST is to keep our scheduled wake time (as determined by school, work, etc) close to sunrise.
Everything else (energy savings! more shopping hours!) is just confusion and wishful thinking.

The controlling factor isn't east-west, it's north-south.
The further north you go, the more sunrise time varies with the seasons, and the more an adjustment like DST helps.

Stuffing the whole country into two time zones is a non-fix for a non-problem.

See also
How congress broke Daylight Savings Time []

Well... (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | about a year ago | (#45310745)

Well, if you are going to go as far as the Shrager suggests, then why not just eliminate all time zones. Let people on the West Coast get up and go to work at noon and go home at 8pm? Or you could go the otherway and people in New York get up and go to work at 6am and go home at 2pm but using the standard clock in CA. Or, you could pick the midwest as the middle and let both costs, were the majority of people live either go to work and school in the dark or come home that way.

If you don't like Daylight Saving Time, fine lobby to abolish it or to make it permanent. That is a totally different case than eliminating time zones.

DST is pointless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310765)

I've never given a crap whether the sun rises or sets a little earlier or later. It's winter anyway and not really all that sunny, so I don't actually give a damn whether it's dark or not and from what I can tell neither does anyone else.

We should just move to a single time zone and be done with it.

I've got an idea... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45310783)

Rather than wait for the goverment to tell us what time it is, why don't we all just establish our own new time zone (one for the whole country would be nice) and use it exclusively. Eventually the govenment will have no choice but to follow along.

If I, and every person and business I associate with use a single time zone, then it really doesn't matter what any law says. I don't think I can be arrested for what time my phone/watch/clock says it is.

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