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Swiss Government Backs Privacy Oriented ISP

samzenpus posted about 9 months ago | from the eyes-on-your-own-screen dept.

The Internet 109

judgecorp writes "The Swiss government owned telco Swisscom is pitching a "Swiss Cloud" operator which promises to keep customers' credentials private in the wake of the NSA spying scandal. Switzerland has strict privacy laws, with which the Swisscom cloud complies, and the operator now wants to offer that more widely."

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109 comments

strict privacy laws my ass! (5, Insightful)

larry bagina (561269) | about 9 months ago | (#45325625)

They used to have strict banking secrecy laws, too.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326293)

They still do, it's just that they no longer do business with US citizens (because of the US government and their oppressive policies, not because they don't want to).

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326351)

This. I am a dual citizen, USA and Switzerland, I live in the US. I had a bank account in Switzerland with less than $2k in it. Last year the Swiss bank closed out my account and sent me the funds. The Swiss government caved in to pressure from the US and changed it's banking laws. They will do the same thing with internet privacy.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1, Troll)

JockTroll (996521) | about 9 months ago | (#45326615)

Mostly the government gave in to pressure from the very same banks because they wanted to keep doing business with the US. Now, the sensible option would have been to immediately close down all business in the US and sell the Swiss part of the US debt (Switzerland is the 2nd biggest US creditor after China) to Russia. Forcing all US citizens living in Switzerland to either leave or give up US citizenship would be fine, too. At the moment the whole of the European population harbours a level of hatred towards Americans that it's a miracle no bloodshed has happened so far. This might change soon.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1, Insightful)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45326873)

Few in EU like Swiss banking any more than US does. It's a known tax fraud heaven, and with EU has been shaken by the crisis pretty badly, tolerance for Swiss "give us your money, we'll help you not pay your fair share" policy is growing thin.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45329105)

Lol. The UK is one big tax fraud in itself, what with the Channel Islands schemes and all. With the EU about to fall into pieces, what they like or not is irrelevant. Of course, Switzerland as one of the most spineless governments ever and always had.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45329681)

... and with EU has been shaken by the crisis pretty badly, tolerance for Swiss "give us your money, we'll help you not have your money stolen by big brother" policy is growing thin.

FTFY

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45329897)

Yes, we know. "Tax is for the poor" and all that jazz.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45330159)

Maybe if taxes were on consumption rather than production, productive people wouldn't have to shelter their funds.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45330633)

Most of the taxes sheltered by people are on profits.

Companies are the ones who shelter money from production and consumption.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45331133)

"Most of the taxes sheltered by people are on profits."

Profits are the result of production. Income taxes, capital gains taxes, and the like are taxes on production. They are therefore, by definition, counter-productive.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45334063)

All human actions result in death. Therefore by definition, all human action are counter-productive.

Hey, that works for everything!

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45336933)

??? Huh? Are you trying to imply that all human action results in taxes???

Seriously... where did you learn basic logic? Sesame Street? This doesn't even remotely follow from what I wrote.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45340891)

I just tried applying your version of logic. It's called sarcasm.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45341203)

"I just tried applying your version of logic. It's called sarcasm."

I know what you were trying. The point was that you did not succeed.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45343555)

I see you have no sense of self-criticism when it comes to your beliefs. Even when they are absurd, like claiming that taxes on profits equal taxes on production.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45352697)

"I see you have no sense of self-criticism when it comes to your beliefs. Even when they are absurd, like claiming that taxes on profits equal taxes on production."

It has nothing to do with "belief". It has to do with whether your comment made any logical sense.

You can debate all day about belief. But I do know logic, and that wasn't it.

Don't bother to reply. I won't feed any more trolls today.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45354353)

1. Unable to argue logically about his points: check.
2. Unable to grasp the difference between profit and production: check.
3. Calling those who point these two fact to him trolls: check.

Who is trolling here again?

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45357017)

"1. Unable to argue logically about his points: check. 2. Unable to grasp the difference between profit and production: check. 3. Calling those who point these two fact to him trolls: check."

I know I stated I wouldn't reply, but you have amazed me with your depth of misunderstanding. I am truly impressed. It's really more like this: 1. Unable to understand logic. Period. Check.
2. Unable to grasp that profit is the result of production. Check, check, and check again.
3. Calling repeated failures to understand item 2 "pointing out facts". Check.

You're a real piece of work.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45361013)

And death is the result of human actions. Above comparison applies directly, showing the absurdity of claiming that something being result of something else is the same as something being something else.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45334951)

I don't think paying a fair share is an option for most people in any country. It is usually far more or far less.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45335013)

Why should a country be allowed to tax on properties that are not even within that country? If any state should have any right to levy a tax on money on a Swiss bank account, it should be Switzerland. They (rightly) choose not to, so what right does the administration of the country where the owner of the money have to do so? Since governments do not like that mere logic would prevent them from tapping on a nice source of cash, they cheat by forcing their residents from declaring foreign assets as though they are within the jurisdiction of the country of residence and they abuse political pressure to force other countries to disclose this information, that is fundamentally of no concern to them.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45328039)

At the moment the whole of the European population harbours a level of hatred towards Americans that it's a miracle no bloodshed has happened so far.

They harbor it just like they did under the Nazis, kings, and communists. It's nothing new. We don't give a f*ck because Europeans are unlikely to ever grow a pair of balls and do something about it. And if they ever did, they'd stop hating us.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

JockTroll (996521) | about 9 months ago | (#45345475)

Europeans don't have to do anything. In fact, just by *not doing* anything they would accomplish a lot. Next 9/11 they can just say "well, sucks to be you but it's not our business, and we're not putting our electorate at risk of retaliation by terrorists by siding with you, and we're not about to jeopardize our commercial relationship with Russia or China by remaining members of NATO because the Cold War is over you see". No bases overseas, no allies... All of a sudden you're just another nation among many with an overbloated military budget that cannot be employed much anymore. Scary, hunh?

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (5, Informative)

bsolar (1176767) | about 9 months ago | (#45327037)

Strict bank secrecy laws were not amended: to do that the government would actually need to change the constitution, since that's where this protection is defined. Every change to the constitution needs to be approved by popular vote, so even if the government caves in to the US requests, it has to actually convince the majority of Swiss voters to approve the amendments in the mandatory vote. What actually happened is that many Swiss banks got threatened with lawsuits in the US and decided that US customers were more hassle than they were worth it.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) | about 9 months ago | (#45334263)

What actually happened is that many Swiss banks got threatened with lawsuits in the US and decided that US customers were more hassle than they were worth it.

Small steps, but vitally important. If only others would follow this example.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45327359)

Sounds like you have no issues with tax fraud.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (4, Interesting)

pixelpusher220 (529617) | about 9 months ago | (#45326733)

Wasn't one of Snowden's 'triggers' to his document releases the blatant rights violations of the Swiss at the behest of the NSA?

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (2)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | about 9 months ago | (#45330689)

Actually it was the CIA. He witnessed a Swiss banker be turned into a CIA asset through someone getting him drunk and making him drive. So not only was this an immoral entrapment scheme, but it also sounds quite dangerous (what if he had crashed?). Of course, he should have not driven when drunk, but who knows how persuasive the CIA can get. For all we know they spiked his drink.

Re:strict privacy laws my ass! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45328029)

Yeah, and we saw how that turned out.

FYI. The Peoples Republic of China has financial institution which say they will NEVER share your personal information with any western government or corporation without your explicit written permission.

doesn't matter (3, Funny)

Moblaster (521614) | about 9 months ago | (#45325651)

It's clear this is merely some darknet to protect the black market for Swiss chocolate smuggling. But at last my secret Toblerone stash will be untraceable. So I got that going for me.

Re:doesn't matter (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325871)

So that's what they mean by "dark chocolate".

pist forst? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325679)

really?

Speed of...light. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325705)

There's one issue for someone in the US depending upon a European cloud solution. The latency and speed is going to be a lot slower.

Re:Speed of...light. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325781)

What is slower latency?

Re:Speed of...light. (4, Funny)

fred911 (83970) | about 9 months ago | (#45325807)

What is slower latency?

    Duplicate redundancy.

Re:Speed of...light. (2)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 9 months ago | (#45326431)

'Help stamp out repetitive redundancy, completely and totally.'

That was making the rounds in the mid-70's, around the same time that T-shirts with "THINK" printed on them.

Re:Speed of...light. (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 9 months ago | (#45326443)

I hate typos - T-shirts with 'THIMK' printed on them.

Re:Speed of...light. (1)

superdave80 (1226592) | about 9 months ago | (#45328409)

In this case, wasn't it the lack of a typo that you hated?

Re:Speed of...light. (1)

master5o1 (1068594) | about 9 months ago | (#45330313)

Is it a typo if it is spelled correctly but not according to what it is referring to?

Re:Speed of...light. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326083)

I have never heard Europeans complain about the latency of American on-line services. I don't think this is a big problem in most situations.

Re:Speed of...light. (1)

liamevo (1358257) | about 9 months ago | (#45326977)

It's not. Especially with CDN's.

the Swiss don't need you (3, Interesting)

Gothmolly (148874) | about 9 months ago | (#45325729)

The nice thing about this is that short of invading, there's no way to pressure the Swiss to do anything that they don't want to do. They produce their own energy, they make a crapload of money, and every adult male owns an assault rifle (security of a free state, keep and bear arms, etc. etc.). They can afford to give the NSA the finger.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (2)

fph il quozientatore (971015) | about 9 months ago | (#45325757)

short of invading

There's the issue.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (4, Interesting)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 9 months ago | (#45325813)

There's the issue.

What issue? [antiwar.com]

Re:the Swiss don't need you (4, Insightful)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about 9 months ago | (#45325941)

That's a pretty hard sell. They're white, they don't have natural resources, and they are known for neutrality. In fact, that's one of the reasons that nobody tries to fuck with Switzerland. The value of having a neutral territory far outweighs the value of pursuing a particular agenda.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (3, Funny)

cold fjord (826450) | about 9 months ago | (#45326131)

The value of having a neutral territory far outweighs the value of pursuing a particular agenda.

The value of capturing a series of heavily defended localities adjacent to and in a mountain range tends to be outweighed by the cost of doing so. Rubble and ruin is a poor exchange for blood and treasure.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (5, Informative)

cold fjord (826450) | about 9 months ago | (#45326755)

That's a pretty hard sell. They're white...

The US has fought repeatedly against nations populated primarily by white people when there was cause. That includes Britain (1776, 1812), Germany (1917, 1941), Italy (1941), Spain (1898), France (1798), and the whites and white government of the Confederate States of America (1861). The US was ready to go to war for 50 years (1947-1991) against the largely white Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact (East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria, Romania, Albania) in Eastern Europe, and intervened in the Russian civil war (1918). There appears to be a problem with your race based theory. Too many people here have "brown on the brain." (We'll pass in silence over the wars in Asia.) The issue is the behavior of the nation in question, not the color of its population.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325815)

they only make money because we allow their banks in the USA and other nations
close up any bank that is owned by anything swiss and see what happens

Re:the Swiss don't need you (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325885)

As a swiss guy (born and living here): you have some good point, unfortunately and sadly they are wrong.

* Guns: Adult males (which are required to do military service) have a gun, but no ammo at home. No self-defence for us.
* Energy: we produce some energy and sell it during the day to other countries. During night, we buy it back at a far lower price to fill up the dams. There is give and take, and economic mostly us as winners.
* Crapload of money: yes there are some, like banks/etc. The common rabble doesn't. Life is very expensive here in Switzerland, except the iPhones.
* Finger to the NSA: I'd wish, but but our ministers do *always* what the USA is asking, often in advance.

So: no. We are USAs bitch like many, many others.

(unfortunately I forgot my password, therefore: anonymous swiss coward)

Re:the Swiss don't need you (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326555)

The point you're missing is that the general international sentiment towards US is changing. They're no longer regarded as the super nice nation that will protect the world from the bad guys, they're becoming bad guys themselves.

Perhaps this initiative or Brasil's initiatives won't stop the NSA, but the point is that these countries have started to take measures against the States when that would've been unheard of 10 years ago. Expect more countries to do the same, and move further away from a dependence on US & Co's economies. USA's bitches are growling and may start biting soon.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45327321)

No, I'm aware of the changing sentiment towards the USA. Some of the policital caste has lost touch with its cows^w^w^w^w population, as in many other countries arround the globe.

I'm not saying, everything is wrong in Switzerland. But please, let's stop pretending it is heaven. There is much room for improvement.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45327593)

I think it's mostly just Americans who think Switzerland is pure heaven (they tend to have a very black & white view of "foreign" countries)... The point I was trying to make is that in most democratic countries, expect "protection from NSA and America" to be a major issue in the next election and the one after that. Of course it's partly up to us to make that happen. We need to repeatedly ask the candidates and the media "what do you plan to do against mass surveillance by other governments and our own?"

Re:the Swiss don't need you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326685)

As a swiss guy (born and living here): you have some good point, unfortunately and sadly they are wrong.

* Guns: Adult males (which are required to do military service) have a gun, but no ammo at home. No self-defence for us.

The Stgw 90 is 5.6x45mm, which is compatible with 5.56x45 NATO and .223 Remington ammunition. Buy .223 with 55 grain bullets, will work fine up to 100m.

* Crapload of money: yes there are some, like banks/etc. The common rabble doesn't. Life is very expensive here in Switzerland, except the iPhones.

If you don't have a job that pays you at least 4000 CHF per month, you're doing something seriously wrong.

our ministers do *always* what the USA is asking, often in advance.

Vote SVP then.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (4, Informative)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45327005)

Buy ammunition, get arrested, go to jail.

Many people don't know that beyond the weird NRA-based claims of "armed nation", swiss men have assault rifles at home disassembled and with no ammunition. Assembling the rifle and taking it out of your home without special permission is a crime. Having ammunition for it without special permission is also a crime. They brought down their mainly assault rifle based gun crime down hard with that policy.

That said, their army has excellent plans on how to distribute ammo in event of threat of war.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45327405)

As far as I remember (not swiss but lived in Swizerland during two years), they have ammo but it is sealed in a box and they'll get into problems if the sealed box is already opened before the periodic mandatory shooting training sessions.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 9 months ago | (#45329839)

This used to be the case, but it changed a few years ago. Ammo for the issue rifle is only made available at the ranges now.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45329159)

How stupid are you? I said "buy .223 remington". It is not illegal. Any Army reservist usually armed with a Pistol 75 (SIG P220) also got issued a box of 9mm. Which is readily available at any gun store. As for "assault rifle-based gun crime", it was negligible to begin with, mainly done to appease some shrill association that later got their asses handed to them when they tried to go for a wide gun ban. Of course, one cannot asked an oklahoma pigfucker like you to know anything about Swiss gun politics. Keep sticking your cock into swine ass, it's the only thing you seem adept to. ;)

Re:the Swiss don't need you (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45329883)

This "Oclahoma pig fucker" actually comes from the only other nation in Europe with universal conscription - Finland.

As far as I know, you have rules for ammunition that are fairly similar to ours. Have a permit or you're breaking the law. The only difference is that you choose to keep your reservist guns at homes, while we keep them buried in the ground or stored in army storage all over the country..

Re:the Swiss don't need you (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 9 months ago | (#45329861)

They brought down their mainly assault rifle based gun crime down hard with that policy.

Can you cite some examples of that "mainly assault rifle based gun crime"? I am only aware of a single case, where the guy shot up the canton (?) parliament with his Stgw. This was back when ammo was still issued for storage alongside with the rifle.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (2, Informative)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 9 months ago | (#45329945)

As far as I remember they had similar pattern of domestic violence that Kosovo has. I.e. instead of knives, or small arms most wounds were high energy ballistic (caused by high power assault rifles), which are far more serious in nature.

It's not that they had a lot of it. It's that the pattern of this particular form of crime, which usually takes form of "most accessible weapon" was significantly more fatal than that in neighboring countries. By removing easy access to ammo, domestic violence cases went to more traditional "knives, flying pans and small arms" that gives victims a much higher chance of survival.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (1)

bsolar (1176767) | about 9 months ago | (#45330147)

The fact is that the army-issued rifle is not a private weapon and you are allowed to use it only "on duty". You cannot even use it for personal defense in your own home. Said that, getting a private weapon and ammunition is very easy, you just need a permit which is not granted only in very specific cases (mentally ill, with a criminal record...).

Re:the Swiss don't need you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45327411)

* Crapload of money: yes there are some, like banks/etc. The common rabble doesn't. Life is very expensive here in Switzerland, except the iPhones.

If you don't have a job that pays you at least 4000 CHF per month, you're doing something seriously wrong.

Same opinion here, but let's be honest, 4kCHF is not exactly a *crapload* of money.

our ministers do *always* what the USA is asking, often in advance.

Vote SVP then.

SVP or not, the political climate must change IMHO, more towards neutrality.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (2)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | about 9 months ago | (#45330347)

(unfortunately I forgot my password, therefore: anonymous swiss coward)

Your password is 228ghx!@.

Kind regards,
Swiss Federal Intelligence Service.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326001)

The nice thing about this is that short of invading, there's no way to pressure the Swiss to do anything that they don't want to do. They produce their own energy, they make a crapload of money, and every adult male owns an assault rifle (security of a free state, keep and bear arms, etc. etc.). They can afford to give the NSA the finger.

Wrong, economic coercion works as well if not better than military invasion. Switzerland is a prosperous country because of the EU it trades with. EU has a lot of clout in Switzerland. That's how the EU managed to break the Swiss's famouse bank secrecy laws.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326067)

The nice thing about this is that short of invading, there's no way to pressure the Swiss to do anything that they don't want to do.

Yes... because the Swiss never fold. Oh wait... [wikipedia.org]

Re:the Swiss don't need you (2)

bsolar (1176767) | about 9 months ago | (#45327153)

Bank secrecy is not absolute, it merely means you need to get a warrant if you want to inspect someone's bank data, and if you actually have good reasons to believe that someone is doing something fishy the warrant is not an issue. What many foreign states want is actually unlimited access to any and all customers data without the need for probable cause, which is against the Swiss constitution.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (1)

nbauman (624611) | about 9 months ago | (#45328501)

What many foreign states want is actually unlimited access to any and all customers data without the need for probable cause, which is against the Swiss constitution.

Not us. Access without probable cause is against the U.S. constitution too.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (2)

mlts (1038732) | about 9 months ago | (#45326193)

What can be done is to use the Swiss data center as a passthrough for encryption.

That way, you have your site -> intermediate storage provider -> destination cloud provider, with both your site and the intermediate provider doing passthrough encryption. This can be changed with public key encryption to the intermediate providers only stepping in to decrypt data with their private key [1]. Encrypted data would just go directly from the client to the end cloud provider.

That way, for data to be accessed without authorization, it would take the destination cloud provider, the intermediate providers with their keys, and the client to all be compromised.

[1]: Or more technically using a symmetric algorithm with the key protected by a public key algorithm a la OpenPGP.

Re:the Swiss don't need you (1)

Registered Coward v2 (447531) | about 9 months ago | (#45327451)

The nice thing about this is that short of invading, there's no way to pressure the Swiss to do anything that they don't want to do. They produce their own energy, they make a crapload of money, and every adult male owns an assault rifle (security of a free state, keep and bear arms, etc. etc.). They can afford to give the NSA the finger.

Actually, there is a way to pressure them. Have foreign banks stop doing business with their banks. It's actually a very effective tool; one that is used on the North Koreans very effectively. It essentially cuts off access to their money which results in their rethinking what they are doing. We'd never do that to Switzerland but it is a little know but effective weapon.

Horrible pun ahead. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325761)

Swisscom? I hear their privacy is...full of holes.

Re:Horrible pun ahead. (2)

DoofusOfDeath (636671) | about 9 months ago | (#45330383)

Cheesy joke.

Don't trust it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325849)

Sounds like a NSA honeypot to me. I wouldn't trust anyone to claim your info is free from the NSA.

Yes, I do believe the Swiss are helping the USA with it.

Why did Swisscom exec commit suicide? (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325909)

I notice there's a lot of suicides connected to telecoms.

Kostas Tsalikidis, shortly after the Vodafone bugging of the Greek government was discovered.,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kostas_Tsalikidis

Adamo Bove, committed suicide by throwing himself onto a freeway after finding out about 'Radar' (like an Italian Tempora):
http://www.edri.org/edrigram/number4.15/italy

Just out of interest, I noticed a senior Swisscom exec killed himself in July this year, shortly after the Snowden leaks, it could be unrelated and maybe it was related to his marriage breakup 4 years earlier, but worth digging in light of the other two deaths and the timing.

I recall Snowden mentioned CIA's activities in Geneva from his days there, (getting bankers on drunk driving charges to gain leverage). Which puts a question mark in my mind about a Swisscom cloud:
http://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-describes-cia-tricks-2013-6

Re:Why did Swisscom exec commit suicide? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326031)

They were about to be ousted for the shady shit they had been doing. Suicide was the easy way out. Good enough, I say.

Re:Why did Swisscom exec commit suicide? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326165)

Maybe, if bankers were CIA targets to get banking info, I bet Swisscom execs were too to get telco secrets.

Best I could find was this:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2012/1205/Swiss-spy-warning-sent-to-CIA-MI6-after-secret-data-theft

"Secret information on counter-terrorism shared by foreign governments may have been compromised by a massive data theft by a senior IT technician for the NDB, Switzerland's intelligence service, European national security sources said."

"Intelligence agencies in the United States and Britain are among those who were warned by Swiss authorities that their data could have been put in jeopardy, said one of the sources, who asked for anonymity when discussing sensitive information."

"Swiss authorities arrested the technician suspected in the data theft last summer amid signs he was acting suspiciously. He later was released from prison while a criminal investigation by the office of Switzerland's Federal Attorney General continues, according to two sources familiar with the case."

Sounds like a Swiss Snowden to me. They claim he was going to sell the data, (Terabytes of data shared with GCHQ and NSA!) But that's just a claim, they don't offer evidence.

Swisscom (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45325933)

Swisscom is the last company you would want to do this - I was working for one of the large banks here and to VPN from home to the office on Swisscom you had to have a static IP otherwise it was routed through Germany which wasn't good for Swiss banking secrecy.

This is going to be huge (5, Interesting)

comrade1 (748430) | about 9 months ago | (#45325939)

I live in Switzerland. I was never quite happy with the european cloud computing providers I found because they were based in places like the uk, france, etc. Eventually I did find a swiss company but they were small and not feature-rich (compared to aws). I've worked with swisscom in the past on tech projects and they are extremely competent. I look forward to see what they come up with. And related to this, I've been looking into investments that will take advantage of europeans moving their data back to europe and requirements/laws for purchasing non-u.s. networking equipment. I found some good investments for companies on the hardware side, and I think this might be a good investment on the computing side.

Re:This is going to be huge (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326767)

https://www.open.ch/ [www.open.ch]
These are very competent people with enormous experience in securing networks. And ensuring that they stay that way.
They've got to be laughing all the way to the (Swiss) banks with the latest revelations - business opportunities will explode.

Hide Nazi Stolen art (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326007)

That way they can keep the art the Nazis stole secret.

Is it just my cynicism.... (2)

argStyopa (232550) | about 9 months ago | (#45326037)

...or are all these proposals for 'new' 'secure' cloud and email systems probably doing nothing more than waking up the NSA that they can't just doze through bulk downloads of foreign-traffic data any longer?

I mean seriously, the tyros in the NSA are probably *welcoming* the new challenge of some serious crypto to crack...and most of these new programs are going to be hacked and downloading again almost unhindered by lunchtime of launch day.

Re:Is it just my cynicism.... (2)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 9 months ago | (#45326127)

Even if the company can be trusted, still got to get the data through NSA-tapped pipes each way. NSA with their ability to easily coerce certificate signing by any of the US-based CAs, and a policy of getting companies to insert backdoors in products. And if they really want what's in the cloud, they can just have a deniable operative use the classic bribery or extortion techniques to get access.

Re:Is it just my cynicism.... (1)

kermidge (2221646) | about 9 months ago | (#45333677)

"the tyros in the NSA"

N.B. I don't think tyro means what you think it means, i.e., tyro is a beginner.

As for the rest? Who knows? You could well be right.

We see how the Swiss bank secrecy thing worked out (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326069)

Worked out with them giving out whatever information the US government wanted.

Re: We see how the Swiss bank secrecy thing worked (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326119)

They haven't. Not yet at least. It keeps getting voted down.

And how can they guarantee that (4, Interesting)

mark_reh (2015546) | about 9 months ago | (#45326161)

the NSA and other spy agencies aren't able to get at their traffic? Swiss privacy laws protect against legal attacks, not NSA attacks.

Re:And how can they guarantee that (1)

spikesahead (111032) | about 9 months ago | (#45326741)

So far the most effective NSA attack has been the $3 wrench; they put people in a room and tell them they need to comply or a man with a gun will put them in a metal box forever. Secret laws, secret courts, gag orders preventing you from even talking to a lawyer? These are fundamentally incompatible with the legitimate rule of law.

Re:And how can they guarantee that (1)

kermidge (2221646) | about 9 months ago | (#45333681)

Or just as easily, invite a crusading congressman for a tour and while there show him what they have on him; he comes out being quite supportive of agency's programs. We had one example just a few months back, for those following the news.

NSA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326299)

As if the Swiss gov't didn't know what was going on before Snowden. Please, they're all in on it..

secret agencies and law... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326411)

Saying the "cloud complies" with laws mean nothing: you can't build a cloud that does not comply with law. That would be illegal.

And a clould "protecting the privacy" is worth nothing: We are constantly being told that these spy agencies' operations are all lawful. And where they are not, they are a "secret", and giving away such a secret is a felony.

If a country wants to make an actually useful guarantee, then it should just stop broad spying on its citicens. Spying MUST ALWAYS occur with permission of a court, such that legislation has a mean to CONTROL the extent of that spying! Anything else exposes the citizens of a state to arbitrary actions of its government.

Crypto AG was Swiss, wasn't it? (1)

JPMH (100614) | about 9 months ago | (#45326595)

Crypto AG [wikipedia.org]

And then you realize that (3, Funny)

spacefight (577141) | about 9 months ago | (#45326619)

- the swiss had their fair share of privacy desasters - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secret_files_scandal [wikipedia.org]
- the swiss also have their intelligence services
- the swiss also have lawful interception
- you still need to encrypt everything as your data in transit to Switzerland might be intercepted elsewhere

Go dark. Now.

Regards from Switzerland

I wouldn't trust Swisscom on different levels (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45326625)

Swisscom are failing to provide reliable DNS and DHCP services to their customers, and they are a premium market player whose strategy is to sell "bundles", i.e. much more than the customer wants or needs, to increase their sales.

The many times I have to deal with their NOC/Abuse departments offer ample evidence that much of their ISP existence is wondering and trying.

Customer-orientedness and technical ability would be high up my scale of criteria to check before opting for a cloud provider (not that I ever would), so Swisscom is out on both of those counts.

Problem with Switzerland though (2)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 9 months ago | (#45326649)

... is that it has so much foreign soil.

let's go skiing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45327121)

they have one physical network. the other stuff just buys capacity
on that swisscom owned network ... it's just rebranding .. like
davos-rich-people-congregation

As if the Swiss don't snoop either... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45327467)

As if any government doesn't have some sort of desire to spy on those who come and go with-in their borders, be it in person or via electrons.
Someone, somewhere will be looking into the data traffic and snooping around. There will be gentleman agreements among TLAs, data will be shared. Anyone who says otherwise is just lying.

there is a cost (1)

museumpeace (735109) | about 9 months ago | (#45327695)

It costs, yes, real money, to keep your information private.
witness the positive and contrapositve:
1. the slow but steady growth of app.net, a paid subscription social web SERVICE/platform [handily the equal or better of /. IMO] that takes a bit of your money instead of of selling your ID-related data [no f**king ads for those of you who can read but not connect dots]
2. the way all the "free" web services provided by Google, Farcebook, (and god knows what Twitter will suck out of you for the stockholder's benefit and turn over to random hustlers)
3. yahoo, amazon, etc...what service have you used for free and then NOT seen strangely appropriate adverts in the side bar?
4. Swiss bank accounts are synonymous with "privacy means not having to pay my share of the social contract"

so, how will the Swiss pay for this service??? or will YOU pay for it in their stead, as a very few of you pay for their banking services?

Re:there is a cost (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45331295)

Amazon is a store, not a free service -- it makes money by taking a portion of all sales, regardless of whether the item purchased was a book, bicycle or Android app.

Tax fraud heaven? (1)

einar2 (784078) | about 9 months ago | (#45328037)

I am surprised how many bought the simple "tax fraud heaven" formula their leaders were feeding them. Imagine, there is a country where the tax authority does not automatically know how much you make and how much you own. You have to declare it. And with in some limits, the tax authority must trust you. There are checks to make sure everybody plays fair. However, per default, the state does not assume that you are a cheating liar. Can you say the same about your country?

And although this system can be abused, the business model is not primarily to attract money from foreigners. The natives have sufficient control over the government to create a comfortable system for themselves. We are extending this luxury to foreigners as well.

And believe it or not. There were instances in the past when foreigners were glad to be able to hide their money from a dictatorship...


(declaration of bias: Swiss, working at a Swiss bank, actually a bit proud to live in a democracy)

Re:Tax fraud heaven? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45331523)

Have you not noticed that most American Slashdotters are libertarian, and (like a hell of a lot of Americans, sadly) would be *proud* to lie/cheat their way out of paying their share of the social contract if they knew their government wouldn't know any better?

(FWIW I'm American.)

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