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Japanese Researchers Build Rock-paper-scissors Robot That Wins 100% of the Time

Unknown Lamer posted about a year ago | from the humanity-is-doomed dept.

Robotics 114

slew writes "Although the robot technically cheats because it watches your hand and can recognize what shape you are intending to make and beat it before you even know what is happening. Apparently it takes about 60ms for you to shape your hand, but the robot can recognize the shape before it is completed, and only takes 20ms to counter your shape so the results appear to the human opponent to be virtually simultaneous. I wonder how difficult it would be to add lizard and spock to the mix.... ;^)."

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Dupe (4, Informative)

Pikoro (844299) | about a year ago | (#45333525)

Re:Dupe (5, Funny)

Tablizer (95088) | about a year ago | (#45333563)

But the robot knew it was a dupe before you

Re:Dupe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45334581)

But the robot knew it was a dupe before you

Just as long as I can still get first pos...(BAM!) Hey!

Oh that's it. I'm calling a meeting of my local Slashdot Posters Union. They won't stand for this shit.

Re:Dupe (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333699)

Not a dupe, that was version 1 where it detects it after you form the shape with your fist, version 2 detects your hand as you are making the shape, so before you even finish it changes.

Re:Dupe (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333861)

Version 3 detects it before you think about it.

Re:Dupe (5, Funny)

JustOK (667959) | about a year ago | (#45334351)

Version 4 kills your mom before you're born.

Re:Dupe (5, Funny)

SJHillman (1966756) | about a year ago | (#45334711)

Version 5 is made of liquid metal

Re:Dupe (4, Funny)

tippe (1136385) | about a year ago | (#45335313)

Version 6 looks really hot, especially while she beats up Version 4.

Re:Dupe (1)

AdamStarks (2634757) | about a year ago | (#45335605)

We haven't seen Version 6 yet, though after 22 years you'd think they'd come out with another entry in the series...

Re:Dupe (1)

Megane (129182) | about a year ago | (#45335703)

Version 7 says "Let there be light!" [wikipedia.org]

Re:Dupe (1)

MyLongNickName (822545) | about a year ago | (#45336531)

If you are going to use "Let there be light" in the context of science fiction, "The Last Question" by Asimov is a much better reference

http://www.physics.princeton.edu/ph115/LQ.pdf [princeton.edu]

Re:Dupe (1)

Minwee (522556) | about a year ago | (#45336631)

What do you get if you multiply six by nine?

Re:Dupe (1)

Ralph Michael De Leon (3387837) | about a year ago | (#45335491)

PTS!! PTS FOR THIS GUY

Re:Dupe (2)

fatphil (181876) | about a year ago | (#45334825)

That video looks like the slow version 1 (which makes no reference to there being any other versions), this video's the quicker version 2 (which explicitly refers back to the existence of prior versions).

However, it still cheats, as it always follows the human. Perhaps the hands should be forced to touch down on a pad, such that the shape is defined at the precise instant that the first of the hands touches down. There are clear instances where the bot hasn't yet decided what to do. Or rather than doing its 1-2-3 counting by following, with lag obviously, the movements of the humans hand, it should have to follow audio counting by the human instead. That would permit the human to push the limits of mechanical lag in the same way as the bot can. If you can time that pushing perfectly, you can force the bot to default.

So I don't think all is lost, this experiment is clearly set up to favour the robot by overlooking what it's unable to do. V3 might be faster still though, there's no reason to imagine otherwise, and eventually it will be so instantanious it's impossible to detect its lag.

Re:Dupe (1)

dreamchaser (49529) | about a year ago | (#45335151)

Yes, aside from the impressive 'reflexes' of the system and the speed with which it operates there really isn't much impressive about this. It isn't a win if it is cheating.

Re:Dupe (1)

Ralph Michael De Leon (3387837) | about a year ago | (#45335533)

I think you missed the point of cheating Cheating refers to an immoral way of achieving a goal ( THANKS WIKI) Goal in this case..to win

Re:Dupe (1)

fatphil (181876) | about a year ago | (#45335651)

Well, it is undoubtedly an *amoral* way of achieving that goal.

Re:Dupe (1)

Ralph Michael De Leon (3387837) | about a year ago | (#45336129)

Aside from the fact that your are correcting a page from wiki "The all knowing and all seeing". immoral i(m)môrl,-märl/ adjective adjective: immoral 1. not conforming to accepted standards of morality. If we are talking about the machine then yes it itself is "amoral" since it lacks concern for morality, however the "cheating" is immoral since we're talking about the accepted standards of "rock paper not lizard or Spock but scissors is OK"

Re:Dupe (1)

Ralph Michael De Leon (3387837) | about a year ago | (#45336159)

inb4 "Your" != you're

Oh yeah? Well (1)

Tablizer (95088) | about a year ago | (#45333537)

my bot eats paste

Re:Oh yeah? Well (1)

idontgno (624372) | about a year ago | (#45337411)

Reminds me of the famous bumper sticker (paraphrased for context):

My robot beat up your Rock-Paper-Scissors-winning honor roll robot.

Japan builds robots that cheat. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333541)

How is building a cheating robot news?

It's not. Fuck off, Slashdot, your submissions grow worse every week.

Re:Japan builds robots that cheat. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333995)

When is Japan going to build me my robot maid? I want my god damn maid damn it! And before you say anything, it's not a fetish thing. I'm just sick of living in this dump but I don't care enough to clean it myself.

Re:Japan builds robots that cheat. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45334039)

That's even worse than if you just wanted a fuck toy. Peel your disgusting ball out of your chair and clean up after yourself you fucking slob.

Re:Japan builds robots that cheat. (1)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | about a year ago | (#45336893)

I believe that sex dolls are being worked on. They have the dead fish (they just lay there) ones now. The movable ones always ready for you are being worked on now.

When the ghost in shell sex dolls are out the world will end. Those models will first seduce you. Then screw your brains out. Then blow your brains out. If you are really unlucky all of that will happen in less then five minutes.

Re:Japan builds robots that cheat. (1)

king neckbeard (1801738) | about a year ago | (#45335077)

Sorry, but if you want a robot maid from Japan, it's going to be a sex bot.

Re:Japan builds robots that cheat. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45335165)

and likely have tentacles

Re:Japan builds robots that cheat. (1)

minstrelmike (1602771) | about a year ago | (#45335507)

Damn, now I lost my train of thought, instead I'm thinking about a sex bot that reacts to me before I even make a move.
'Thinking' is probably the wrong term.

Re:Japan builds robots that cheat. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45337307)

Great. Robots telling you what you are doing wrong before you do it.

Re:Japan builds robots that cheat. (1)

Pharoah_69 (2866937) | about a year ago | (#45337277)

fuk u or fuk mi?

hmm (1)

purnima (243606) | about a year ago | (#45333543)

So the human player has no incentive to change away from the Nash equilibrium of 1/3,1/3,1/3.

Re:hmm (2)

Garridan (597129) | about a year ago | (#45333659)

You mean the Homer equilibrium of "Good ol' rock. Nothin' beats that!"

Re:hmm (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | about a year ago | (#45333721)

Thats Bart not homer. See, humans are still better at SOME unnecessary tasks.

Re:hmm (4, Funny)

Garridan (597129) | about a year ago | (#45333809)

See... this is why I use computers for my memory. Wtf was I thinking, quoting the Simpsons on slashdot? Bound to fuck that one up.

Re:hmm (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about a year ago | (#45334613)

The human player has no incentive to play.

The robot doesn't either, but it does anyway because that's what it does.

Re:hmm (1)

amicusNYCL (1538833) | about a year ago | (#45336477)

Of course the robot has an incentive to play. If it didn't play, there would be no use for it.

Re:hmm (1)

Minwee (522556) | about a year ago | (#45336647)

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of rock, paper, scissors?

Get back to me when... (0)

klingers48 (968406) | about a year ago | (#45333549)

When researchers build a rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock robot. Then I'll be impressed.

Re:Get back to me when... (2)

Gamer_2k4 (1030634) | about a year ago | (#45333739)

When researchers build a rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock robot. Then I'll be impressed.

Why? It's just two more hand shapes, and the robot doesn't even need to use lizard or Spock (both rock and scissors beat lizard, and paper beats Spock).

Re:Get back to me when... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45335771)

Why?

Cuz it's a joke, son.

Re:Get back to me when... (1)

BlackSnake112 (912158) | about a year ago | (#45336919)

Rock beats scissors. Scissors beats paper. Paper beats rock. Nothing beats a bj.

Re:Get back to me when... (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about a year ago | (#45336349)

so what is the maxtrix of which trump which? is it perfectly balanced win/lose so there is no advantage to any one shape, otherwise the lizard and spock additions can't be allowed.

Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @11:2 (0)

DontScotty (978874) | about a year ago | (#45333565)

Can we have a robot that checks for duplicate stories?

Robot Hand Beats You At Rock, Paper, Scissors 100% of the Time
Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @11:28PM
from the we-have-outlived-our-usefulness-as-a-species dept.

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (1)

PatPending (953482) | about a year ago | (#45333601)

We'll have to wait until the robot that detects duplicate posts about duplicate stories is completed.

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333625)

But can the robot use pen missile?

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45334899)

Don't fib, that's hardly a penis missile. More like a AAA battery.

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (4, Interesting)

GiantRobotMonster (1159813) | about a year ago | (#45333651)

I dutifully flagged this as a dupe in the firehose before it made it to the front page. Lot of good it did!

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (1)

PatPending (953482) | about a year ago | (#45333785)

You have to duplicate your flag in order for the dupe to be considered a dupe.

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45335295)

Hey bro. I heard you liked duplicating. So I duped your dupe so you can dupe while you dupe..... Did I get that right? haha

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (4, Informative)

girlintraining (1395911) | about a year ago | (#45333831)

I dutifully flagged this as a dupe in the firehose before it made it to the front page. Lot of good it did!

Dice doesn't have dedicated slashdot editors anymore. They are editors of a dozen or so sites. Really now, what kind of quality do you expect now that they've sold out and now monetize the web synergies to create a new market paradigm of customer-focused informational advertisements?

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (4, Informative)

PatPending (953482) | about a year ago | (#45333853)

Dice doesn't have dedicated slashdot editors anymore.

Dice doesn't have dedicated editors anymore.

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45335193)

slashdot had editors?? i fail to see what has changed...

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45335225)

They can compile EMACS just like EVERYONE ELSE, GODDAMN IT!

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45335239)

Dice doesn't have dedicated editors anymore.

And they're changing their name to RockPaperScissors.com

Re:Posted by Soulskill on Tuesday June 26, 2012 @1 (1)

Bucc5062 (856482) | about a year ago | (#45334813)

Stop, don't write that again, there are just somethings not read before going to work. Now I'll have executive speak in my brain all day....damn you...damn you to HR.

Once again... (5, Funny)

PatPending (953482) | about a year ago | (#45333573)

Since Rock-Paper-Scissors dates back to the time of the Chinese Han Dynasty, the Japanese built this in order to diplomatically resolve the dispute with China over the Senkaku Islands.

Actually: in Japan, there's a "strip-poker" variant of rock-paper-scissors. The loser of each round removes an article of clothing. The game is a minor part of porn culture in Japan.

Once again, porn drives innovation!

Re:Once again... (1)

T.E.D. (34228) | about a year ago | (#45335487)

Well, we know where the funding came from now.

"Funny how the guy with the moveable prosthetic hand seems to win every round..."

Simple to beat the cheat (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333623)

Block the camera's vision by putting your other hand in the way.

Re:Simple to beat the cheat (1)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about a year ago | (#45333773)

Doesn't work. Robot doesn't use a camera, has advanced sponges for moisture and olfactory detectors.

Why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333701)

All that money and time that could be spent making Gundam a reality, was wasted on this pointless thing..

Re:Why... (4, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | about a year ago | (#45334433)

Recognising pilot gestures almost immediately is a good thing for a Gundam to have.

Re:Why... (1)

Megane (129182) | about a year ago | (#45335811)

Add a little voice recognition and you can call out all your attacks, too!

Story not a dup (1)

TrollstonButterbeans (2914995) | about a year ago | (#45333711)

This robots offers "pull my finger" for gestures it doesn't recognize.

Re:Story not a dup (1)

PatPending (953482) | about a year ago | (#45333755)

Oh, c'mon! You're pulling my leg, right?

Sheldon objects (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333713)

How is it at rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock?

How do you say bullshit in japanese? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333741)

Because they haven't played 100% of hands with 100% of possible opponents. Dame!

But there's an easter egg hidden somewhere... (1)

Bob_Who (926234) | about a year ago | (#45333759)

If you show it the secret hand signal the robot will "Go Kabuki" and and make you a "Hot Saki" and a "Spicy Hand Roll".

Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto

Are we being insulted? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333815)

as a Slashdot reader, I hope we could get 100% new articles!

Susceptible to feints? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333865)

Just curious if it's susceptible to feints, or if it reacts even too quickly for that.

Re:Susceptible to feints? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333973)

it wins the feint, and the real throw, as if it just played two games.

Not a dupe.
V1 watched your finished hand
V2 watches motion of hand

Re:Susceptible to feints? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45335253)

v3 gains sentience and becomes skynet.

Re:Susceptible to feints? (1)

stewsters (1406737) | about a year ago | (#45335417)

v4 Puts people in a sort of shared dreamworld to use as batteries. Or to use their brains as processing power, which would have been way better IMHO.

Years ago? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45333883)

I recall someone else already did this years ago.

Same robot hand doing other crazy stuff (1)

HizookRobotics (1722346) | about a year ago | (#45333999)

Back in 2009, the same researchers had this hand doing all sorts of crazy dexterous motions... dribbling, pencil flipping, throwing & catching, etc: http://www.hizook.com/blog/2009/08/03/high-speed-robot-hand-demonstrates-dexterity-and-skillful-manipulation [hizook.com]

Re:Same robot hand doing other crazy stuff (1)

fatphil (181876) | about a year ago | (#45334835)

That video's much more impressive than the one in TFA. The catching of the phone was astounding!

What if (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45334101)

What if he play with another one with the same model. Do they win 50% of the time?

Cheats, not wins (3, Insightful)

daveewart (66895) | about a year ago | (#45334217)

Title should read: "Japanese researchers build Rock-paper-scissors robot that cheats 100% of the time"

Re:Cheats, not wins (1)

InsightfulPlusTwo (3416699) | about a year ago | (#45334889)

Cheating still counts as a win if you find the experience amusing. Imagine a magician with robot speed and dexterity. Sure it's just tricks, but imagine the fun you will have trying to figure them out when the hand is truly MUCH quicker than the eye...

Re:Cheats, not wins (1)

T.E.D. (34228) | about a year ago | (#45335517)

Interesting. Do you consider successful poker bluffers "cheaters" as well? They operate on information gleaned from opposing physical "tells" too.

I'd thing it would be very interesting to play a few rounds with this robot. I bet with a bit of work any reasonably competent human will be able to fool it to make it lose every time. When it comes to "cheating", its tough to beat a human being. :-)

Re:Cheats, not wins (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45337991)

Go watch the video. It "instantly" chooses and changes shape when you have changed shape. How are you going to make it lose? Whatever shape you have already demonstrated it beats. Whatever shape you try to change to because you didn't like your first choice, it instantly beats after you've changed.

Unless you're expecting a bug in the program, or to shine a bright light or laser at the optical sensor or something... but that woudl be violating the rules of the game yourself...

RTFA (1)

thephydes (727739) | about a year ago | (#45334271)

This is a new model that is able to make predictions faster!!!! geez, does anyone RTFA??? Or maybe there are some here that cannot believe that the Japs can do something better than the Yanks? Just saying.

Based On History... (1)

hyades1 (1149581) | about a year ago | (#45334309)

The first real-world application of this device will be in one of "those" doll/robots with the special moving parts.

And it won't be located at the end of an arm, either. ;-)

Ob (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | about a year ago | (#45334377)

In Korea, only old people play rock-paper-scissors with robots.

Japan's equivalent of "still no cure for cancer" (1)

Dogtanian (588974) | about a year ago | (#45335059)

Japan's rapidly-ageing population gives money to researchers to build robotic servants that address the lack of young people to look after them in years to come... and gets rock-paper-scissors-bot instead.

Sounds like the halting problem (4, Interesting)

bugnuts (94678) | about a year ago | (#45334421)

Have it play against itself, then we'll see some small values of 100%.

Re:Sounds like the halting problem (3, Interesting)

fatphil (181876) | about a year ago | (#45334841)

It won't complete the first round, as both will just sit there waiting for the other to move. "Never loses" might be the best way of describing it.

Re:Sounds like the halting problem (1)

cdrudge (68377) | about a year ago | (#45334975)

So the only way to win is not to play? Joshua taught me that.

Re:Sounds like the halting problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45335257)

So the halting problem is solved! A computer will halt waiting for input.

Re:Sounds like the halting problem (1)

tlhIngan (30335) | about a year ago | (#45336345)

Have it play against itself, then we'll see some small values of 100%.

Depends how you define win. It will win 100% if it means it never loses.

Of course, if you add ties to the mix, the win percentage will be much lower.

If it plays itself, it will probably continually tie itself. If you don't count ties, that's basically still "winning".

Re:Sounds like the halting problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45337845)

If it plays itself, it will probably continually tie itself.

Uh, so it engages in some weird bondage masturbation?

This is cool (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45334959)

This is not just cool, but it's as cool as it was A YEAR AGO when it was on Slashdot for the first (or maybe second) time.

RIP, One Funny Lady (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45334989)

Phyllis Diller died on Sunday at age 95.

What happens (1)

areusche (1297613) | about a year ago | (#45335661)

If you change the shape while coming down? So on 3, you stick your fingers out for scissors and then switch immediately to a rock?

Re:What happens (1)

Mr Krinkle (112489) | about a year ago | (#45335973)

You'd tie... Wouldn't you rather switch from scissors over to paper? Since if it "thinks" you'll have scissors, you'd want paper cause the robot would choose rock to beat you...

What about Fukushima? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45336195)

Is it just me or does anyone else out there see the ridiculousness of giving attention this toy when Japanese brainpower needs to go into solving the ongoing Fukushima crisis?

"fooled you" (1)

Pharoah_69 (2866937) | about a year ago | (#45337257)

"Although the robot technically cheats..."

Great. That's all we need right now. Robots to start cheating. What's next? Does it do impressions too like Dark Helmet from Spaceballs, "Haha. Fooled you."

If there were a linux game of rock, paper, scissors; then I'd be impressed.

rigged tests are unimpressive (1)

prgrmr (568806) | about a year ago | (#45337435)

Lets see the test done with the human hand held still in front of the robot hand and not waving around or flying toward the robot to signal the start of the game, and the gesture not overly-dramatically done, and have the robot triggered from a verbal cue just like the human. Yes, I get that the Japanese love robot tech. But this isn't good robot tech, and it's certainly not good science, it's just rigged pseudo-drama.

"technically cheats"? (1)

glwtta (532858) | about a year ago | (#45337777)

It just plain cheats. Or did you mean it cheats in a highly technical manner?
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