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Next World of Warcraft Expansion: Warlords of Draenor

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the for-the-horde! dept.

Games 156

JestersGrind writes with news that Blizzard has announced the next expansion to World of Warcraft, titled Warlords of Draenor. This expansion raises the level cap to 100 and introduces a new world/continent full of zones: Draenor. They're also introducing 'Garrisons,' player-built bases on Draenor that individual users will be able to customize and upgrade. Your garrison will have followers which you can send on missions, and you'll be able to invite other players over to visit and trade. The expansion will also revamp a number of aging character models. Blizzard is also making it so new and returning players can immediately boost one character to the current level cap (90), so they can immediately jump into the new content.

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I guess I'll see (2, Insightful)

xevioso (598654) | about a year ago | (#45372663)

Do you still have to grind to get anywhere? If so, I won't be back.

Re:I guess I'll see (5, Insightful)

JustAnotherIdiot (1980292) | about a year ago | (#45372691)

Has there ever been an MMO where grinding wasn't a requirement?

Re:I guess I'll see (4, Interesting)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year ago | (#45372721)

GW2 [guildwars2.com] doesn't really do the whole "grind" thing - at least not with anything you actually have to do to advance.

Hell, just hop in WvW and murder people. You can level up that way.

Re:I guess I'll see (2, Informative)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year ago | (#45373047)

Hell, just hop in WvW and murder people. You can level up that way.

Sure if you just want to level up, and do so really slowly. However once you hit level cap, there's still a lot of grinding to do. You have to grind faction reputations, you have to grind heroic dungeons, you have to grind professions, and if you want to pvp you have to grind battlegrounds.

WoW is a game full of chores, with you having an assload of chores to do each time there's a new expansion before you can start doing endgame content.

Re:I guess I'll see (2)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#45373173)

He's talking about GW2 world vs world mode. He's also either ignorant or lying about its mechanics, as scaling in that game only scales your level and base health, and in that game vast majority of stats at maximum level come from gear that requires maximum level and is massively more powerful than even gear that requires one level less than max, much less the crappy starter gear.

A decent player in exotic lvl80 gear can easily take many low level scaled up people and never break a sweat.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373227)

you are aware GW 2 gives you immediate access to the best gear in the game as soon as you jump in to the PvP area (PvP gear and PvE gear are completely separated) maps and your char is immediately up leveled to max. (than down leveled to your real level as soon as you leave)

no factions to grind Crafting professions are a Joke to level

as far as dungeons some of the best ones are for a level 30 and if you do that dungeon on your level 80 char. you are down-leveled for that instance to level 31 level is a fluid thing in GW2 to keep all of the areas somewhat challenging.

oh and geting max level 80 probably takes 40 hours of play time.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year ago | (#45373309)

What do you mean have to? You don't have to do any of that shit.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45375861)

You don't have to do anything really. Grinding is always an optional activity. Maybe you won't be the best but nothing is forcing you to micro-optimize your character but yourself.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45375927)

Wow you are an idiot.

Re:I guess I'll see (3, Informative)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#45373161)

GW2 grind is souldcrushingly long and tedious, as the game not only has far more grind than WoW ever it, it does the grind in a massively boring way, just like GW1 did. You just repeat the same small subset of actions in the same place all over and over and over and over again. I absolutely love their art, which is by far the best in the industry, but gameplay was remarkably boring after a few hours with very little depth and grind was just soul crushing. And I say this as someone who played GW1 for years, where best form of farm was running two instances with a solo build that could be (and widely was) botted.

WoW felt like a game of LoL in terms of speed of character progression in comparison to GW2.

As for WvW, you either don't understand how it works and bought arenanet's lie about scaling, or are intentionally misrepresenting the facts. Sure, you get boosted to maximum level but without gear, you're a useless dead weight. It gives you levels but without all the stats that come from level-specific gear, meaning one properly geared lvl80 can easily drop 5-7 scaled up low level guys and not break a sweat in the process. Done that myself several times on a warrior and elementalist before quitting the game.

Imho if you want to get into GW2, stick to PvE, go through the storyline once and quit. Because once you have done so, you enjoyed all the enjoyable content that game has to offer. Rest is simply about monetizing the wealthy min-maxers who can't be bothered to grind for months of redoing same easy instances for gear tokens, AoE bot the events for karma or botting gold.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about a year ago | (#45373327)

I dunno, I function perfectly fine in WvW with a level in the 10s or 20s. I don't expect to lead the pack or run around in a 3 person squad and succeed, but I can certainly function fine with the larger mass. I even get kills!

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#45373415)

Oh, you can grind it perfectly fine. All you need to do is find the zerg, pretend they're NPCs and sit next to them occasionally throwing in AoE to tag necessary stuff. Congratulations, you now know why botting is rampant in GW2 WvW. It makes no sense not to bot it. It's good income of gold and karma and actions of individual players and most squads are largely pointless in the large scheme of things. So just relax, turn on your favorite botting software and go do something fun while it grinds karma and gold for you for months.

In fact, that describes the entire game very well. The best way to get value out of GW2 is to simply treat everyone in the game as NPCs, including other players. The game is built on the assumption that you will do so by making communication all but pointless. The appropriate solution to most problems is to just zerg objectives with "N"PC zerg.

And of course, there's the whole pay to win aspect of the game, as you can effectively everything including the legendaries in the game by simply paying money to arenanet.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#45373425)

Should be "effectively buy everything" in the end. I'm sleepy...

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45374663)

If it wasn't long and tedious then it wouldn't be grind. GW2 doesn't stop you from grinding. Personally I'm having a great time in GW2. But then I'm not farming or doing the same action in the same place over and over. I've not found the leveling in GW2 to be in anyway slow. In fact if you just play the game and have fun you'll hit level 80 quickly. IMHO people should try it when they do a free weekend and decide if they like playing it from that. If you don't like it, don't play it. Don't listen to some whiner who thinks the point of GW2 is to get as much money as possible, or farm for an e-peen (usually a legendary greatsword), and then quit, but not before complaining about the "grind".

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#45375691)

I have bad news for you. All commercial games' main point is to get as much money as possible.

It's just that GW2 goes it in exceptionally user-hostile way of pure pay to win by selling you in game money for real money, and allowing in game money to buy the best, most rare gear in the game (legendaries).

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

TheLink (130905) | about a year ago | (#45375551)

I haven't played GW2, but regarding GW1, other than the silly unlock skills and gear for PvP bullshit, very little grinding is _required_ even in PvE.

You want the fancy armor - yes you grind. But the fancy armor has the SAME STATS as the armor you don't really need to grind for. It just looks nicer (or not depending on your tastes).

You can play and experience all the story content including the elite areas just as well without the fancy armor. Having the fancy armor doesn't help you do better at all.

If you want to play the grinding game and grind for consumables, fancier armor, weapons, titles, yes GW1 allows you to grind, but it's silly to then complain about the grind right? I haven't needed to grind for consumables so far.

The only exception I can see is if you want stuff like a 7 requirement 16 armor shield... Then yes you may need to grind to get that. That said I got one and kept it through sheer luck - I was a noob when I got it - and kept it without knowing the value of it :). You don't actually need it though. Player skill, teamwork and tactics matter far more in PvP than having rare gear like this.

For GW1 they don't need the grinding because they've already got the money upfront from the players! They don't need gameplay that "compels" them to come back every day. They do need enough people around so that players have other players to play with, but that's about it.

GW1 can be boring if you do the same thing over and over again. But the game doesn't actually force you to do that. You can use some rather weird builds for fun. I currently use a hero ele rit as a healer and a necro as a illusion mesmer :).

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about a year ago | (#45375711)

Unfortunately they didn't see it that way in GW2. Hence the entire problem with massive grind and pay to win selling in game currency that can buy essentially everything including the legendaries for real money.

They chose to monetize all of the progression, which brought in game currency inflation to hilarious heights as everyone and their grandmother has to bot for gold if they're not grinding materials required for legendary.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373329)

GW2 [guildwars2.com] doesn't really do the whole "grind" thing - at least not with anything you actually have to do to advance.

Hell, just hop in WvW and murder people. You can level up that way.

murdering people is such a grind : (

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Clsid (564627) | about a year ago | (#45375765)

I tried a lot to like GW2, with its fancy graphics and good pvp, open world progression, no level requirements for a lot of stuff, but to be honest, in my case it just wasn't as fun as WoW. To the point where I actually started playing WoW again, and one of the things that really shine are the professions, even if you play WoW solo the game delivers in a very simplistic manner one hell of an experience.

Re:I guess I'll see (2)

Antipater (2053064) | about a year ago | (#45372813)

In Planetside, you started out with enough Cert Points that you could get/use any gun in the game at level 1. Of course, grinding out more levels allowed you to have more guns at the ready without re-speccing, but that certainly wasn't a requirement to win or have fun. And given that it was a PvP game, I'm not sure if "killing more people" really qualified as grinding anyway.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373073)

In Aces High everyone starts out the same, practically access to the same gear, and stays so for decades of playing, typically until membership is ended by death. Access to late-war fighters is by no means required to get anywhere.

Re: I guess I'll see (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45372861)

Eve. Just steal.

Re: I guess I'll see (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373065)

Niggers steal too.

Re: I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373281)

Yeah eve online- best mmo out there

Re: I guess I'll see (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#45374055)

At least as long as you don't bother with mining or PvE, or any other activity that makes ISK.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Fjandr (66656) | about a year ago | (#45373393)

Depends on your definition of "grind." If you mean killing the same things over and over to get anywhere, there are a numbers of MMOs without a grinding requirement.

Re:I guess I'll see (5, Funny)

Greyfox (87712) | about a year ago | (#45373461)

I'm currently writing an MMORGY where grinding is the ONLY requirement! Level cap's 69, armor types are Latex, Leather and None, no questing (just grinding!) Only weapon you can equip is a whip! It's going to make ONE BILLION DOLLARS!

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

painandgreed (692585) | about a year ago | (#45374033)

I'm currently writing an MMORGY where grinding is the ONLY requirement! Level cap's 69, armor types are Latex, Leather and None, no questing (just grinding!) Only weapon you can equip is a whip! It's going to make ONE BILLION DOLLARS!

Not buying it until it supports riding crop as a weapon.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Greyfox (87712) | about a year ago | (#45374289)

If you've watched any of the MMOs, you know how to play that game! We'll release the riding crop a month after the initial release as a $10 DLC. Ha ha. Ha ha ha! Muahahahahah!

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#45374059)

With blackjack and hookers?

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about a year ago | (#45374833)

Well, the blackjack is broken...

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Zynder (2773551) | about a year ago | (#45375285)

Forget it then!

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Miseph (979059) | about a year ago | (#45375221)

So... Second Life? Why?

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

painandgreed (692585) | about a year ago | (#45374091)

Has there ever been an MMO where grinding wasn't a requirement?

Considering that people use "grinding" for whatever game play that prevents instant gratification, probably not.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

citizenr (871508) | about a year ago | (#45375783)

Has there ever been an MMO where grinding wasn't a requirement?

Eve Online

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Nos. (179609) | about a year ago | (#45372703)

I can't see how it won't. You'll grind for rep and some sort of currency (valor points or what have you) to get better gear to get into end game raids, to farm gear.

It's lost it's appeal for me and I really doubt I'll be back.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year ago | (#45372833)

Every new expansion it's "Hey look, some new evil power has taken over and it's time to replace all of your raid epics with shitty mob loot and run fetch three gold clovers and a deer antler for this quest NPC about 200 times until you reach the new level cap. After that run heroics over and over again for 60 hours for the next two weeks, which are just scaled up versions of the regular dungeons you went into while leveling. And then you can start raiding to see a new twist on the same shit you did when the last expansion came out."

I mainly played that game just for the PVP, but in wrath they really dumbed down the talent trees because they failed to balance arenas, and I heard that in MoP they REALLY dumbed them down, and meanwhile they've still yet to figure out that instant heals from 1% to 100% health with long ass CC chains where the objective is to make it so that the other healer can't do anything (either running out of mana or being put in a long CC chain) long enough for somebody to die isn't that fun, nor is grinding the same battleground 40 times to get an epic glove that fun either.

For me it was about world pvp, but they killed that during cataclysm when they made the town guards cc you and then hit like nuclear bombs as evidently they didn't want you doing that either, even in a PVP realm where that's the whole point, so I just quit.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Opportunist (166417) | about a year ago | (#45374251)

Erh... how else could you possibly keep the game running?

They have to do that. It only works that way that the gear you so painstakingly raided for, weeks after weeks, that you accumulated over months of game time becomes utterly worthless with the next expansion because the first green random drop from some trash mob blows the snot off your "epic" gear. Yes, it sucks for the long time player, but it is the only way to keep the game going. Simply because it's the only way they could possibly attract new players. Consider this: The game is close to a decade old. Now imagine you'd have to climb your way ALL the way through ALL the content so far. Let's for a moment assume that it was even still possible. NOBODY would bother to start a new character or even start playing altogether, simply because they would see that not only are they at least 5-8 years behind the current content, the chance to get the necessary groups together for those level 60 raids are slim to zero. But mostly, who would like to start playing a game, knowing that they'd have to play with some dedication for YEARS to finally be "allowed" to play the current content?

So they have to fastpass new players where older ones had to use the winding road and do sub- and prequests for various raids, or allow them to bypass the raids altogether.

Something similar applies to them practically disallowing town raids. Most servers have a, let's say, lopsided balance. In other words, it becomes rather difficult for one side to even get their quests done sensibly if their quest NPCs are constantly being killed.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45374517)

You just described EVE Online.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

AlphaWolf_HK (692722) | about a year ago | (#45375663)

Erh... how else could you possibly keep the game running?

Do we really need endless faction reputation? Do we really have to recycle dungeons to give "something to do"? Do we really need "kill some bird things and get three of their feathers and put them in my hat" quests? Especially the ones where the feathers only drop from one out of every 20 mobs? Cata they said they would end that but there were still plenty of them. Also, you know something is wrong with battlegrounds when people would rather bot them than actually play.

Something similar applies to them practically disallowing town raids. Most servers have a, let's say, lopsided balance. In other words, it becomes rather difficult for one side to even get their quests done sensibly if their quest NPCs are constantly being killed.

That's really not supposed to matter according to their own rules ("if there's a pvp solution available") and I'm actually talking about the neutral areas. The servers are so dead that neutral areas are pretty much the only place to even find somebody. And I didn't do raids, I would gank solo - raids were still just as easy because you get a proper tank to hold them while everybody else nukes.

Re:I guess I'll see (3, Interesting)

twocows (1216842) | about a year ago | (#45372725)

Experienced player here (since BC). It's WoW. Do you even really need to ask? The level grind is just one of many. Then you've got the grind to get LFR-ready equipment (right now that's not too bad, you just run around grabbing chests on the new 5.4 area and get free 496 gear). Then you grind LFR until your gear is good enough that people will let you in their flex raids, and then grind flex until etc. Also, there's a legendary questline that you need to grind. There was reputation grinding, and there still is a little, but that's mostly gone. Oh, and there are side grinds if you want to do stuff like max tradeskills or pet battles or whatever, same as always.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373475)

I played vanilla through end of Cata, then quit because pandas. I just re-upped a week ago and am running heroics for LFR-ready gear...what's this new area with 496 gear you speak of?

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

neiras (723124) | about a year ago | (#45373821)

Timeless Isle.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Karzz1 (306015) | about a year ago | (#45374699)

Do the timeless isle "Treasure, Treasure Everywhere [wowhead.com] " achievement.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45375065)

I've been around since beta of WoW (plainsrunning on Tauren, anyone?) I've been on and off in WoW, sometimes playing intently, sometimes just ignoring an expansion. For me, MoP was a turn-off because it was about grinding a bunch of dailies, then you could hop into scenarios, then after tons of scenario runs, you might just make it into LFR raids and get some decent gear. At least the past two patches made that less of a problem, and Timeless Isle is decent because eventually you will get something there.

However, other MMOs have multiple paths to gear up for endgame raiding. On Rift, I can do hunt rifts [1] to get geared up, then mentored low-level dungeons which got me enough gear to do expert (heroic) dungeons. From there, open raids, and then real raid. In Everquest 2, just capping two named a day and crushing 25 mobs gets you a loyalty token. With those, you can get decent gear, and from there, start getting stuff needed for raiding.

EQ2 has a nice feature... you can hand in your previous expansion's raid gear and get group-quality gear for the current expansion. This allows you to bypass the "purples are now greens" common in most MMOs, so a top tier raider can actually have something to show for it other than an achievement.

Of course, WoW has one problem, and that is the FoTM class thing. A patch comes along, you find your main heal nerfed, when you log in, you won't have a guild tag in most raiding guilds. Same if your class got a DPS "adjustment". So, endgame players watch patch notes with a lot of apprehension because if there is a big nerf (sort of like what happened with priests), you know it will be time to change your "main" to that one alt that hasn't seen daylight since Bush was in office, level that character up, run through the gear grind, and then finally get back into a raid guild... and you pray all along that a nerf doesn't happen or else you will have another alt that will be getting spammed for guild invites when you log on.

[1]: Of course, the fact that you can buy endgame raid gear for $300 per item got me to hand in my Ascended tag for good. I could see about overtime at my job, buy all the pieces, and spend less time total than trying to raid for every BiS item.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45372741)

The only MMO I've played that didn't take excessive grinding to get to a decent level is Shadowbane. Unfortunately it was released with massive bugs (thanks Ubisoft) so there is no telling if a MMO that focused less on grinding and more on pvp and... world-building? (you could make your own cities buying buildings walls etc) would be viable. I think it had promise but what manager would approve trying to emulate that disaster even if it failed for other reasons.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

neorush (1103917) | about a year ago | (#45373013)

Darkfall tried this, the mechanics were just abused (their are no "levels"). So instead of grinding, people would macro their guy into doing the basic task to up that skill. On paper Darkfall looked awesome, it may have been implemented poorly, but I'm not sure there is a way to do it otherwise. If you're not grinding...how else do you make it hard to level up?...that is the question....

solution: Don't make it hard to level up. (1)

zippthorne (748122) | about a year ago | (#45374241)

Make every improvement in skill in one area balance with a loss of skill everywhere else. Then you basically end up with two kinds of players - those who focus on maintaining a few abilities to very high levels (a system like this doesn't really need a max if done right, as you can't do one thing only without doing anything else. Even traveling can have a cost - you level your walking skill while everything else deteriorates.), and those who try to balance out the things they do so that they can always do anything at an average level.

The balance of such a system would probably be pretty hard to get right. You want there to be advantages to going the specialist route, but not be so advantageous that no one wants to be a generalist. There should be drawbacks to either choice.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45375113)

My one memory of Darkfall was reading the forums and seeing posts from the devs along the lines of:

Player 1: This bug is being exploited left and right.
Dev: You are not hardcore enough for this game.

Most communication I read from the devs were pretty much posts stating that players were not elite/hardcore/tough enough to play. Bugs? Not hardcore enough. Other player exploits? "L2P".

Of course, any interaction between players was at best vulgar, because this game seemed to be for the old pre-Trammel/Felucca UO griefing types who yearned to sic their tankmage's tamed balron on some newbie who just left the protection of city guards over and over again. WoW's chat was the interaction of genius compared to that game.

The good thing about Darkfall, and to a lesser extent, WoW is it keeps all the bad players well away from other MMOs.

Re: I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45374963)

wtf are you talking about. shadowbane was epicly grindy... once you are at cap you mostly just sit with your guild grinding the same handful of camps with the occasional siege to wipe out the stuff bought with some other guild's grinding.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45372779)

At least you will start at level 90.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

s.petry (762400) | about a year ago | (#45373117)

Do you still have to grind to get anywhere? If so, I won't be back.

That's kind of a silly question isn't it? Progressive MMOs are all about the grind for enough gear to grind tougher mobs to get better gear to grind tougher mobs, etc... I enjoyed WoW early on, but don't feel like devoting that much time to a "game". If they ever get rid of the Flintstones graphics look I may go back and peek around, but no interest in the crazy cartoon look of the game as a time waster.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373305)

Do you still have to grind to get anywhere? If so, I won't be back.

Isn't that something you do with a vagina?

Also, what's a vagina?

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373311)

Anyone remember that fake-ass Voltron that formed from like 50 cars or some shit? That shit was whack, they tried to copy the legit Voltron and utterly failed.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373377)

Apparantly not, since you can just start with a character at level 90.

Re:I guess I'll see (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373383)

Ever notice how German's are so stupid that they can't pronounce the letter j correctly in a word. They can't say "journey", they say "chourney". Fucking morons, every last one of them.

Ever notice how Indians can't say "teen", they say "deen" instead. When you hear one of those worthless, disease spreading wogs say the number thirteen, for example, it comes as "thirdeen". Fucking morons.

Ever notice how British people can't even speak English as well as Americans? They leave out entire sounds, like when they say "rare", they actually say it as "raaa". Stupid motherfuckers.

Ever notice how Japs can't say the word "rocket", they say "raou-ket". Dumb ass nips.

Ever notice how nasal Russians sound and how their ugly ass noses flare and smoosh downward as they speak. Worthless fucking animals. I could easily kick the shit out of any Russian due to how obnoxious their shitty, primitive language sounds.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Barlo_Mung_42 (411228) | about a year ago | (#45374229)

You can probably pay cash to skip most of the grinding.

Re:I guess I'll see (1)

Cammi (1956130) | about a year ago | (#45374355)

Never had to grind to get anywhere. You were only playing it wrong.

Re:I guess I'll see (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45374701)

did you not notice the bit about the free lvl90 toon?

TL;DR: Time Travel (3, Funny)

OverlordQ (264228) | about a year ago | (#45372695)

TL;DR We ran out of ideas so here's some Time Travel to fuck up canon even more.

Re:TL;DR: Time Travel (1)

Moheeheeko (1682914) | about a year ago | (#45372827)

As I understand it, the time travel was to unfuck all of Metzen's lorerape.

Re:TL;DR: Time Travel (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45372947)

As long as the time-swimming keeps the current hot Dranei, and the MMO players never have to even think about their Warcraft 3 model.

(Alternately, that would be the best anti-player trolling, if the historic Dranei NPCs were the ugly things with the big mouths full of needle-teeth)

Tell me when the Protoss show up... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45372759)

...that's when I might start playing again. Not a moment sooner.

I wanna upgrade! (5, Funny)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about a year ago | (#45372763)

> The expansion will also revamp a number of aging character models.

I hope it has a butt slider so I can make my Draeni mini-cowgirl's booty more properly Kardashinesque.

Still stealin... (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45372781)

from EQ2. And throwing KOTOR/SWTOR into the mix now with minions to send on missions?

Come on, do something original for once.

captcha: plunder

makes sense to me!

Re:Still stealin... (2)

Moheeheeko (1682914) | about a year ago | (#45372835)

any 'new' feature added to WoW since BC has been a feature plucked from other mmo's, the transmog was taken from Aion

Re:Still stealin... (2)

Kidbro (80868) | about a year ago | (#45372955)

And I'm sure EQ stole nothing from MUDs....

Re:Still stealin... (1)

sandytaru (1158959) | about a year ago | (#45372991)

At least the "Garrisons" are different from FFXI's Garrison, which was one of their very first group events and no one has done it since 2004. (18 people defending a fort from an attack... at an arbitrarily low level cap. Sure, let's force level 75s to drop to level 20 for this event!) It's a shame, too, since Garrison was the only source for the mannequin body parts required to have your own mannequin inside your Mog House.

Re:Still stealin... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373105)

WW2OL has forward-bases, which similar to garrisons in that they are player-operated. Not sure, but I think they've been doing that for quite some time now, not 2004 maybe, but they quite definitively already existed at that time.

Vendetta-online also has (and JG had) player-operated bases. But that's probably closer to player housing than garrisons.

Re:Still stealin... (1)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about a year ago | (#45373021)

First of all, bringing models "up-to-date" means more people will stop playing WoW because their computers can't upgrade their GPUs (laptops and Macs). I already try to avoid going to KungFuPandaLand because my frame rate drops too much, if their update means I only get 10-15FPS everywhere then I'll stop playing.

Secondly, Blizzard has put the following things (sort of) in World of Warcraft:
- Plants vs Zombies
- Farmville
- Pokémon

And you're asking for something original?

A lot of people are going to switch to FF XIV: ARR, it doesn't matter what Blizzard do at this point. They should work on Titan instead of adding insipid crap to their current game.

Re:Still stealin... (1)

spire3661 (1038968) | about a year ago | (#45373223)

Actually the floor level of graphics is rising VERY fast. Pumping out upscaled 1080p will be trivial for pretty much any CPU once broadwell comes on the scene.

Re:Still stealin... (1)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about a year ago | (#45373385)

Does Broadwell mean Iris/Iris Pro?

Re:Still stealin... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45374121)

A lot of people are going to switch to FF XIV: ARR, it doesn't matter what Blizzard do at this point.

Wait, people are going to switch to the MMO that was so bad that they literally fired the guy who developed it and offered something like a free year to the player base?

Yeah, I could almost see that happening, except - oh, wait, never. Sure, they may have relaunched it, but it's still the same horrible world and reuses the same crap that no one liked. All they did was make the game play more like WoW and finally release the PS3 version just in time for the PS4 to be released.

They should work on Titan instead of adding insipid crap to their current game.

No, they should be doing both: keeping WoW alive until Titan is ready to replace it. Exactly like they are doing.

thanks for the links (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45372847)

funny, i'm still playing the free Starter edition. I have a level 20 Troll hunter. I might make a Pandaren for fun. Thanks for posting the article.

Future expansions... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45372903)

Expansion after this will time travel to Northrend before Arthas went there, and after that is time travel to the panda turtle before it disappeared for a while.

Re:Future expansions... (1)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about a year ago | (#45373051)

I'm waiting for the Eorzea expansion with the new nekocat race.

I won't be back (3, Insightful)

acehole (174372) | about a year ago | (#45373007)

I played from launch up until just after BC came out and returned shortly just before CATA was released and left shortly after never to return.

The game I loved is long dead, the soul was sucked out of it. You once knew all the people on your realm and could make 'friends' and contacts. Once they introduced the cross realm instancing it all stopped.

The 40 mans were great fun and it was a sad day when they announced they were being removed from game. There were just things here and there that they streamlined the game for but it just well... didn't feel right.

Purples used to mean 'epic' then part way through BC and most of WotLK it became the new green.

Sorry Blizzard, you won't get me back.

Re:I won't be back (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373109)

Purples used to mean 'epic' then part way through BC and most of WotLK it became the new green.

I know what you mean about epics. I'm was a somewhat casual raider but epics were fun upgrades and hard to get back in BC and even Wrath. You'd shit your panties if you played right now. They added an area in Pandaria called the Timeless Isle that is pretty much a re-gearing zone. It's like an Oprah special: "You get a purple, and you get a purple, and you can have ANOTHER purple!" Open a chest, get a purple. Kill a boss (there's like 50 on the island respawning all the time), get a purple. Complete quests to get currency, buy purples.

Re:I won't be back (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45375271)

I notice that this is how Blizz ends each expansion chapter. WoTLK was stupidly easy to get purples just by sticking your finger in your bum and running five-man heroics at the end, but when it was first released, if you wanted to see any real gear, you had to hit Naxx and hit Naxx hard (although it was easi-fied from the Naxx in vanilla.) Ulduar was similar.

The next expansion will make purples stupid-hard to get, but with each patch, it will get easier and easier until a zone opens like Timeless Isle and it just starts to rain purples... until the next expansion, and the cycle repeats.

Re:I won't be back (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373299)

mod up Ace

Re:I won't be back (1)

Brian Feldman (350) | about a year ago | (#45373317)

The magic's gone since they started seriously dumbing down the game at the end of TBC.... Have only done a trial period or two since then, totally unimpressed. Final Fantasy XIV is it now, unless that goes in a direction that is clearly upsetting to me. I am pretty damn nostalgic for old WoW memories, though. You can never go back.

Re:I won't be back (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373989)

I never understood the "dumbing down." The game mechanics are better now than they have ever been. There are more abilities to juggle, more decisions to make about when to use them, and more complicated situations than ever existed in Vanilla or BC.

I hear people say things like the game is dumbed down because purples are easier to get. That the color of the text of an item could possibly have any value to the mechanics of the game is completely absurd.

Clearly there's more content for casual players now. That does not mean the game is dumbed down. The only thing I can get out of all this is that some people felt a sense of elitism because much of the game's best content was reserved only for people who spent their entire life playing and they felt special for getting to see it.

Let me give you an example of how far the game has come: I have played a Rogue since beta. Originally, as a combat rogue you would stand behind the enemy, spam backstab, keep slice and dice up, and eviscerate in between.

Now, I have two main attacks with the way I have chosen to specialize, which actually makes a difference in play style instead of requiring a cookie cutter spec to maximize the numbers: I have sinister strike to push a 3-tier buff cycle forward and shuriken toss to deal more damage and combo points for energy. The first two tiers: 10% and 20%, can be extended by avoiding spamming sinister strike, while the final 30% buff is one time only before it resets. I have to balance moving the buff cycle forward with exploiting shuriken toss. I use adrenaline rush strategically to push the buff cycle forward faster and shadow blades to build combo points during the extensible mid-buff period in which I can use shuriken toss until the buff is about to expire and refresh it with sinister strike. I also have buffs like smoke bomb to shield my group from damage or tricks of the trade to boost damage or offload threat. Managing this wisely enables me to outdamage everyone I have played with, and a few missteps can push me far behind, so it's important to pay attention and play skillfully. That's just getting started with the rotation complexity and doesn't even factor in the complexity of boss battle mechanics.

WoW has come a long way from its origins. The mechanics have been expanded and perfected to a degree that no other RPG, online or offline, which I have ever played has achieved. It includes content for all types of player, from casual to hardcore, and that is not to its detriment.

Re:I won't be back (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45375157)

WoW is good for fine-tuning, but I would say the king of that would be Rift, with its custom talents and only four "classes". Sometimes you can come up with a pretty decent talent build... well, until the devs nerf it (like the old -icar days for the priests due to the free heals.) Plus, supposedly, all archetypes (warrior, rogue, cleric, mage) will have tank/heal/DPS capability, so it will be a matter of figuring out talents. In Rift, one even has builds just for certain fights, especially if it is a boss often killed on a raid.

Fuck Metzen & Street (1)

Sable Drakon (831800) | about a year ago | (#45373091)

Seriously... They seem intent on not wanting money with the way they're treating this franchise.

5 man content (1, Interesting)

yoshi_mon (172895) | about a year ago | (#45373387)

Obligatory WoW history: Started a few months into vanilla, ended that version as a Naxx 40 raider 9/15. Progression cleared everything in BC save the Sunwell and burned out of hardcore raiding. Took some time off during Wrath but came back for the end and did a fair amount of casual raiding as well as "fleet" building. (I had one of every class and had them all to the level cap.) Played Cata on and off but at most just leveled the fleet to cap. And then Mists hit and of all the versions of WoW it has been the one I have played the least. I leveled only 3 of my toons to the cap, no raiding other than LFR, and then left the game.

And a number of things really turned me off to WoW with the direction they took with Mists:

1. Lack of 5 man content. This is huge. When leveling up I really do like questing but without some 5 man content every now and then to break things up it can get a bit tedious. And the lack of 5 man content in Mists while leveling was unlike any previous version of WoW. Without a decent amount of 5 man content, while leveling, I will never go back to WoW.

2. Daily grinds. I am not at all interested in doing daily quests really at all. Sometimes I might feel up to them but the idea of doing daily quests is not fun to me at all. And then locking things behind those quests was just the last nail in the coffin.

3. Oversimplification. I get that the old talent trees were often just cut and pasted from EJ. But it is a lie to say that they did not make the game simpler by turning them into what they are now. The fact that you can no longer get them wrong shows that lie. And that goes for a lot of other things that they have done in the game as well such as spell downranking, stat simplification, and such. After playing Skyrim a lot lately I look back on my early play and think man I was doing that wrong but now I learned. I don't necessarily want Eve's learning curve [staticflickr.com] but what they have now is not a curve at all.

Re:5 man content (1, Insightful)

meta-monkey (321000) | about a year ago | (#45373511)

But the thing is, only bads ever got their talent builds wrong. They still won't know how to not stand in fire, but at least now you don't have to worry about them showing up in your LFR group with points evenly distributed in every tree.

Meta-monkey killed WoW (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45375347)

This guy right here is one of many that killed WoW. He is one of the Elitist Jerks. The massive drop in WoW subs is people like him quitting because the non-hardcore people got access to "his" gated content without having to play 57 hours a day like he does. It eats his ass, so all he can do is unsub, go play EVE, and bitch on the forums about all those shitty n00bs.

Re:5 man content (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373723)

1. 5-man content is the bane of all MMOs. It is the singular type of content that forces people to do things in a way that they don't want to do, which is any or all of the following: (a) group with strangers, (b) rely on less competent players for individual progress, (c) waste time waiting for a viable group to form. 5-man content is the reason why many players disregard MMOs completely as a viable genre, whether they realize that as the cause or not.

3. There should never be a way to build your character "wrong". If that's possible, then what it means is that your talent trees are full of cruft, or simply unbalanced in a way that there is only a handful of viable builds when the choices are supposed to be limited only by the available selections. Oversimplification would happen if they simply removed all the minor choices and left you with (for example) three buttons, one for each viable build. That's effectively how it used to work, you had to press 31 buttons in order to generate the 1 build in that tree that everyone else was using. That's just bad design that can only be loved by min-maxers. Same goes for spell downranking, which was one step short of being an exploit. There should be no reason to use an inferior version of a spell. Doing so just means that you screwed up the design somewhere, and again only a min-maxer would look at this and think that using lower-version spells to spam throwaway conditions on opponents was a wonderful way to optimize a build.

Re:5 man content (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373825)

1. 5-man content is the bane of all MMOs.

3. There should never be a way to build your character "wrong".

2. ??????

Re:5 man content (1)

slickepott (733214) | about a year ago | (#45373891)

Well instead of five man dungeons we now got LFR with 25 people. So 24 strangers which are often crap and can get away with it too since it's LFR difficulty. So if they don't want to meet people in a game then I suppose an MMO is the wrong place to be to begin with.

And regarding talent trees I find that the MoP solution just makes the game far more boring. I don't feel enough of a different from the choices I make. They could just give me some fixed talents and I probably wouldn't notice. Was it with Cata they locked so you had to spend enough points in one tree to open another? That was the start of making it worse with talents. :)

Using lower ranks of a spell however was not that interesting.

Re:5 man content (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45374771)

I don't feel enough of a different from the choices I make.

As opposed to WoW before Mists, where you noticed a difference from your special-snowflake talent build in the form of (sometimes-dramatically) lower DPS? The "muh unique build" argument never had any credibility in a game where the measurement of performance is objectively quantifiable.

Meanwhile, Team Fortress 2 fans complain about new weapons making the game's classes too customizable.

Back in my day, you played video games because you wanted to have fun, not because you wanted to complain.

Re:5 man content (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373893)

You're not up to date on this at all then.
Blizzard acknowledged that their idea of grinding dailies in MoP was a mistake. They removed it. Way too late... but they did remove it.
I agree with you that the lack of 5 man content is a bit disappointing.

As for a one time copy-pasting of talent trees from the EJ website into the game being a meaningful measure of skill is absurd. There are less skills, sure, but you can actually CHOOSE which skill you want since they are all similarly powerful in each tier. Which you choose is a preference which you are not penalized for - and for heroics, it's often a good idea to swap them for various bosses as the optimal skills for each encounter vary.

As for this simpler nonsense - it really has to stop. The game used to be fairly easy. The trick was to find 40 players who did not stand in fire, understood their rotation, and occasionally did something like dispell or stack. That easy mode has long been gone. Current tier bosses are basically undefeatable if everyone in the raid doesn't know in advance know all the mechanics - the transitions, the various debuffs, the kill priority orders, and everything else involved in every phase of the fight. The days of patchwerk are long gone and a single mistake from any player in the raid will often wipe the raid.
The mechanics are so unforgiving that LFR is harder than normal these days because people like you know nothing of the fights and are forced to be carried by the people who do.
The heroic modes are so bloody hard that there are only 64 of some 25,000 guilds (i.e. about 1,100 people of the 7+ million subscribers or 0.015%) beating current content. Even the world first type guilds with all their gear and amazing players can and do wipe on current heroic content (e.g. Dark Animus). As you are someone who has not raided in the last 2 xpacs (for LFR is NOT raiding), I would be obliged if you quit spreading this unfounded BS about things being simpler.

Re:5 man content (1)

slickepott (733214) | about a year ago | (#45373957)

Seems like you got some of the problems at least.

I didn't like the idea of LFR to begin with but I guess there is a point to it. However what we get now from Blizzard is four levels of the same RAID, from LFR to Heroic and no new instances at all since release. They got a few scenarios though but I honestly hate them and they're not the old five mans in any way.

And daily grinds are indeed crap. I hate dailies and then they make them mandatory over time. At least they make them too important. I'd love to have normal quests I can run around and finish off instead. I can't pretend dailies are real content. It's all just Blizzard being lazy, just as with not creating five man dungeons.

And talents as I wrote in a reply to one of your replies. I can't really feel they make a difference at the moment. Also being lazy I suppose.

Blizzard got too lazy.

oh boy. (1)

Xicor (2738029) | about a year ago | (#45373521)

i wonder how they are going to ruin this expansion like they did the last two. i also wonder how many million players they will lose this year.

Draenei are from Draenor? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373945)

i think the Draenei are from Draenor too. It'll be interesting to see if Draenor has Alliance or neutral towns with Draenei running them. maybe we'll learn a bit more about the Draenei's backstory and the Exador.

Hahaha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45373951)

Draenor, or rather the remains of it, were the setting of The Burning Crusade. Unless they retconned the lore again, of course.

They're getting lazy. First pandas, now this?

Re:Hahaha (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45374379)

Draenor, or rather the remains of it, were the setting of The Burning Crusade. Unless they retconned the lore again, of course.

I'm also pretty sure it exploded at the end of the Warcraft II expansion pack's story.

but is it still... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45374271)

the same lame tab-to-target system?

get with the program, 3rd person action rpg is where it's at. tab targeting sucks ass...

Neat, now ditch the crap you added on (1)

rebelwarlock (1319465) | about a year ago | (#45375251)

I'll be back when they fix the fucking talent point system ("hur hur, users can't keep track of more than 4 points total") and murder every last panda.
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