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India's Mars Mission Back On Track After Brief Hiccup

Soulskill posted about 10 months ago | from the drank-water-from-the-far-side-of-the-cup dept.

Mars 73

New submitter rahultyagi writes "After running into some problems in its fourth orbit-raising maneuver two days ago, Mangalyaan (India's Mars Orbiter Mission) seems to be back on track now. A supplementary burn lasting ~304 seconds was completed today, raising the apogee of MOM to 118,642 km — the intended apogee after the original maneuver. After the glitch two days ago, ISRO again seems to be on track to become the first entity to have a successful Mars mission on its first attempt. Though, of course, there are quite a few things that might still go wrong before this can be called a successful mission. Let's all hope that a year from now, we are all celebrating the entry of another nation into the small club capable of successful interplanetary missions."

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Casual slashdot racism in 3... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410535)

n/t

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410557)

Bollywood on mars.

Did you know that if indisns shake their head from left to right that it means they agree with you ?

Been sent from germany to an project in london for a few months and worked there with a few indians. It ticked me off to see them headbanging from left to right all the time.

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410621)

"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Bollywood. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." ... seconds later mass-dancing in the command room. I can imagine that the borg, romulans, klingons and other cilisation may get slightly irritated by that.

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410659)

"I can imagine that the borg, romulans, klingons and other cilisation may get slightly irritated by that.

Sound like a good setup for a dance battle.

Casual slashdot racism in 3... (4, Insightful)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 10 months ago | (#45410677)

Since someone is looking for "Casual Racism", I'll oblige.

All power to India for their mission to MARS.

And this greeting comes from an American who was from China.

How's that for "Casual Racism" ??

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45413385)

Racism is a serious thing.
You cannot improvise it all of a sudden.
It requires meticulous planning.
Or a double doze of O'Bama.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45415717)

Actually, I'll go one better. Slashdotters have seen Indian computer code. How does "India's Mars Mission" even make it as a serious headline? If they manage to launch anything, it'll run a blaoted SAP installation smashed and kludged into something that sort of looks like it might maybe fire the rockets sometimes. Oh, and it's $250M over budget too.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45417709)

You definitely CANT read! It is $73 millions. And, did not know that they use SAP code on board rockets. And, we all have seen what you American monkeys can do when you refuse to outsource to Indians - your healthcare software sucks big time! Fix it before you can even think of rocket science, fuktard!

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (5, Interesting)

Roshan Halappanavar (2994663) | about 10 months ago | (#45410655)

...

Did you know that if indisns shake their head from left to right that it means they agree with you ?

The difference is small... Let me clear this for the un-initiated.. if you consider an axis through the center of your head and the centre of your...nether region, and if the head shaking is about this axis, then it means "No" If you consider an axis through the tip of your nose and the back of your head, and if the head shaking is about THIS axis, then it means "Alright" or "affirmative"(especially if the indian you're talking to happens to be a terminator). Not to be confused with "yes". Source: I'm Indian

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410889)

So you're saying that while Western Europe uses pitch for "yes" and yaw for "no", you use roll for "yes" and yaw for "no", or did I misunderstand you?

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (3, Informative)

_merlin (160982) | about 10 months ago | (#45411085)

Yaw means "no", roll means affirmative, as in agreement - not quite the same as yes, as it still signifies agreement with a negative statement/question.
e.g. a) "Are you a meat popsicle?" roll is affirmative, I am a meat popsicle (English equivalent answer is "yes" in this case)
e.g. b) "You're not a meat a meat popsicle are you?" roll is affirmative, I am not a meat popsicle (English equivalent answer is "no" in this case)
It's like "hai" in Japanese.

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (1)

jimshatt (1002452) | about 10 months ago | (#45411181)

That is actually quite interesting. So, do they still have pitch for "yes" as well?
How about a positive answer to a negative question? As in "doch" in German (or "jo" in Danish, "jawel" in Dutch", "si" in French). English is "yes" or "yes I am" or something to remove the ambiguity.

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45411485)

That is actually quite interesting. So, do they still have pitch for "yes" as well?

Only Slashdot could move from "casual racism" to "casual aerodynamicism". I am impressed.

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45411977)

Imagine this!

Mars Mission under European or American control (just an example) and you have a bunch of Indians participating amongst your regular team within a space ship.

Commander: "Earth Control to Mars Mission! Earth Control to Mars Mission!"
Main Screen turn on!
Indian: "Mars Mission to Earth Control! Mars Mission to Earth Control!"
Commander: "Everythink OK with you ppl?"
Indian: "Shakes his head from left to right (roll or whatever)"

Guess this might cause a big missunderstanding.

Imagine following scenario!

Mars Mission under Indian control!

Commander: "Namaste! Earth Control to Mars Mission! Earth Control to Mars Mission!"
Main Screen turn on!
European: "Mars Mission to Earth Control, we are under heavy attack by Aliens! Should we shoot back?"
Commander: "Shakes his head from left to right (roll or whatever)"

This is sooooo lost!

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (1)

Kwyj1b0 (2757125) | about 10 months ago | (#45415071)

Commander: "Shakes his head from left to right (roll or whatever)"

This is sooooo lost!

Really? You had to get into aliens/human voyages scenarios for f*ck ups? I'm sure the US' refusal to adopt the SI system (along with illustrious company in the form of Burma and Libera) would burn everyone to a crisp before they got out of the atmosphere. (NASA - Needs Another Seven Astronauts).

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45413431)

God damn it, how many fucking offtopic comments do I have to wade through to find the comments that are actually about the fucking mission? Jesus H. Christ, would you kids shut the fuck up? PLEASE???

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45413573)

One more than if you'd not posted at all.

Two more now.

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (1)

Tha_Zanthrax (521419) | about 10 months ago | (#45412243)

As I've understood it, the head wobble is a polite way of saying 'no' while avoiding the actual use of the word 'no'.

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45415733)

Instead of getting into aerodynamics, let's use simpler terms. I'm an Indian and a doctor, so I try to give the medical definition when I'm among medical people in the US. But since this is a techie forum, let me break this down in geometrical, anatomical, and plain English and see if the uninitiated can understand.

1. Rotation (oscillation, really) about the X-axis or lateral axis ("nodding the head"): Yes.
2. Rotation about the Y-axis or supero-inferior axis ("shaking the head"): No
3. Rotation about the Z-axis or antero-posterior axis ("Indian head wobble"): Affirmative (i.e. "I agree with what you say, whether positive or negative").

These are the main cases. There are some minor nuances. But if you cannot understand the above, then there's no point getting into the nuances of body language.
Your body is 3 dimensional, and can move about three axes. If you can't comprehend this and your body language only involves two axes, don't blame others for it. The Indian body language involves moving the head about three axes. But I do resort to just two axes if I'm among people who can't understand. That's like speaking American English dialect when I'm among American people, e.g. saying 'acetaminophen' instead of 'paracetamol' or 'soccer' instead of 'football'.

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45418497)

The Indians wobble their heads because if they'd do it the european or rest or world style, they could by accident hit the reset button (middle of Indian woman heads) :)

Re: Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45413439)

>> Did you know that if indisns shake their head from left to right that it means they agree with you ?

It's called unrolling the towel.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410565)

It's not racism to cry USA number 1 and hope other countries fail... (just nationalistic jingoism)
Of course the closet racists won't admit that there can be any other possible group association other than race...

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (4, Insightful)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 10 months ago | (#45410579)

It's not racism to cry USA number 1 and hope other countries fail

Hoping others will fail is a sign of inadequacy.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45415747)

It's not racism to cry USA number 1 and hope other countries fail

Hoping others will fail is a sign of inadequacy.

... and insecurity.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (5, Funny)

Chrisq (894406) | about 10 months ago | (#45410665)

It's not racism to cry USA number 1 and hope other countries fail... (just nationalistic jingoism)

And why not - America's German scientists did a better job laying the foundations of space flight than Russia's German scientists did.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45411133)

And why not - America's German scientists did a better job laying the foundations of space flight than Russia's German scientists did.

First satellite, first animal in space, first man in space, first woman in space, first robotic moon landing.
I would say that Russia's German scientists did the best job at laying the foundations of space flight.

First man on the moon could be considered the last mile. (Unless someone intends to be the first to put a man on Mars.)

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45412287)

America's animal came back alive.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (2)

thrich81 (1357561) | about 10 months ago | (#45412915)

The AC is cherry picking the space firsts as is usually done with this common post. Not to take away from the Soviets who really did accomplish the 'firsts' listed, the USA had: first successful mission to another planet (Mariner 2 flyby of Venus in 1962), first successful mission to Mars (Mariner 4 flyby of Mars in 1964), first orbital rendezvous (Gemini 6 in 1966), first spacecraft docking (Gemini 8 in 1966). These were all within the first 10 years after the Soviets launched Sputnik 1. Arguably the USA could have had the first satellite and first man in space except for policy differences -- the US Jupiter C booster had launched a payload on a reentry test to nearly 90% of orbital velocity in 1956, a year before Sputnik. Wernher von Braun and his Army group at Huntsville were subsequently ordered by the Eisenhower administration not to launch a satellite or even allow another launch to 'accidentally' go into orbit as it would have been considered 'provocative'. After Sputnik, the Jupiter C did launch the first US satellite in Jan 1958 less than 90 days after the team being given the order to go ahead. As far as the first man in space -- the last unmanned test flight of the Mercury-Redstone manned system was on March 24, 1961, three weeks before the launch of Vostok 1. This last test flight was added because of some anomalies with the previous Mercury-Redstone which had successfully carried a chimpanzee. If not for this decision, MR3 with Alan Shepherd would have launched before Gagarin in Vostok 1. However, Vostok's orbit of the Earth was considerably more of an accomplishment than MR3's suborbital mission even if Vostok had not come first -- as I said, I give full credit to the Soviets for their accomplishments of that time.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (3, Interesting)

cusco (717999) | about 10 months ago | (#45413365)

Actually the Soviets didn't get the scientists, they mostly left with Von Braun. The technicians that were left behind and the hardware that they hadn't been able to destroy were all the Soviets obtained. The Soviet space program was almost completely home-grown, before WWII they were probably second (after Germany) in rocket design. That is why the Energia looks so dramatically different than the Saturn V, other than some advanced metallurgy techniques and (IIRC) turbo-fuel pumps they really didn't get much from the German effort.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45415759)

"Didn't get much from the German effort"?

Have you compared their R-1 [energia.ru] to the V-2 [wikipedia.org] ? Even the Energia calls it (courtesy Google translation) the "first rocket from domestic materials on the basis of German rocket A-4 (V-2)."

Soviet/Russian rockets look so different from the Saturn V because they couldn't overcome combustion instability problems with large thrust chambers, so they settled on using a single turbopump to provide propellants to multiple, smaller thrust chambers. (The Germans didn't run into combustion instability with the V-2 because they used the 18 burner cups, rather than a "shower head" injector. When the American companies started using injectors, they ran into and devised solutions for combustion instability.)

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45420009)

America's German scientists

you are a hillbilly.... You left out how the US went after NAZI scientists in order for the US to steal Germany's technology, that really showed how the US was ahead of everyone else, hell the British had top radar systems that US refused, but wasted time and money only to steal there tech to build there own. Steal you shit from everyone and claim you created it.

And Russia was to busy wasting its time and money to enforce its version of communism instead of devoting more resources towards to keep up..

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0, Flamebait)

Chrisq (894406) | about 10 months ago | (#45410725)

Of course the closet racists won't admit that there can be any other possible group association other than race...

So true. I swear if the invasion of Pearl Harbour happened now people would be saying how wrong and racist it would be to attack Japan, and that they had as much right to Hawaii as America.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0, Troll)

dbIII (701233) | about 10 months ago | (#45411063)

It's not worth pretending to be so utterly ignorant for such a pathetic joke. You fail as a clown.
There's no way you could be such an utter failure that you actually believe such shit, especially after 9/11, is there?

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45411253)

So true. I swear if the invasion of Pearl Harbour happened now people would be saying how wrong and racist it would be to attack Japan, and that they had as much right to Hawaii as America.

No, but people are generally more informed these days so they would have been more aware that starting a blockade against Japan could cause some form of retaliation. Most Americans would consider the attack against Pearl Harbor to be an excessive response to an economic blockade but for a nation at war like Japan was at the time breaking the blockade with any means necessary would be vital.

Military experts back then should have anticipated some form of retaliation. Perhaps the attack against Pearl Harbor is considered excessive but in retrospect we can safely say that it wasn't sufficient to break the blockade and stop the US influence in the pacific ocean.
A nation with a better intelligence service would make sure that a similar attack actually prevented any form of retaliation.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (1)

Grey Geezer (2699315) | about 10 months ago | (#45411545)

The attack on Pearl Harbor was not an invasion. Japan never planned on occupying the islands. Their main goal was to sink our carriers. In that they failed. Probably the main reason they lost the war. That and the whole A-bomb thing.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45412353)

The war was lost months before the A-bomb was deployed.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (1)

StikyPad (445176) | about 10 months ago | (#45414159)

You mean the way Europeans had as much right to North America as the tribes that were already here? I'm not following.

Re:Casual slashdot racism in 3... (0)

Rik Sweeney (471717) | about 10 months ago | (#45410841)

2... 1...

The cause of the delay was due to the fact that the operators were diverted to a call centre operator in Mumbai who simply read off a script and provided no actual help.

The real Triumph.... (4, Interesting)

tanveer1979 (530624) | about 10 months ago | (#45410671)

This is exciting. Really exciting. First the successful moon mission and now this.
However, from a ISRO's standpoint, this is more significant from another angle too.
With such low cost, now others are looking at India as a satellite launch country. Even before, those who wanted satellite launches, often came to ISRO if cost was an issue. But success rate was not too good.
With this mission reaching this stage, ISRO has shown that it can launch any type of satellite. From satellite launch perspective, this is a complete success. No doubt about it.
All these dollars invested will come back over the next few years, as more and more companies gain more trust in ISRO launch capabilities. I won't be surprised if ISRO recovers all the costs of this mission from commercial launches within the next 5 years.

I am at awed at their low cost ... (5, Interesting)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 10 months ago | (#45410699)

... I was doing some reading on India's Mars mission and found two articles quoting the price tag for the entire mission to be $ 83 million.

Yes, you read it right, Eight-Three-Million-United-States-Dollars !

I don't know what NASA can come up with $ 83 Million, but I am pretty sure if NASA to send another probe to Mars it would be far greater than that.

PS. To my Indian friends, can you please share with us how you guys can keep the budget so low?

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410805)

Modular design, off-the-shelf components as far as possible and low salaries (obviously). Only one copy of the spacecraft was built as opposed to NASAs 2 or 3 .

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410955)

Since when is RatShack stocking rad-hard components?
Or RTG's?

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45412709)

Rad hard? Why do we need Rad hard components? Who's Rad Hard anyway?

Here are the links to the two news articles (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 10 months ago | (#45410881)

I'm sorry, I forgot to include the links to the two new articles that I mentioned in my previous comment.

Here they are ...

http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/india/india-to-launch-orbiter-to-mars-next-week--29838.html [indiatvnews.com] [indiatvnews.com]

http://www.firstpost.com/india/will-isro-mars-mission-start-an-indo-china-space-race-1211933.html [firstpost.com] [firstpost.com]

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45411439)

It's all done with elastic bands

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (2)

Gravis Zero (934156) | about 10 months ago | (#45411457)

PS. To my Indian friends, can you please share with us how you guys can keep the budget so low?

duh, they obviously outsourced the work to ind-uhh... that is a good question.

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (2)

asliarun (636603) | about 10 months ago | (#45413545)

PS. To my Indian friends, can you please share with us how you guys can keep the budget so low?

duh, they obviously outsourced the work to ind-uhh... that is a good question.

Heh, that was quite funny!

There's very little I know about ISRO. But there are a few things that work well in India (as a government run entity) and ISRO is definitely one of them. You have to understand that for several decades, Indian organzations like ISRO had to innovate and invent even basic engineering stuff largely in isolation. The homegrown Param supercomputer was also a repsonse to this - because most high technology items (even basic things like CPUs and interconnects) could not be imported as they were banned by the US.

As such, the frugality of organizations like ISRO is more of a byproduct of the severely constrained environment in which they grew up in. So they learnt to make do with what they had, learnt to develop workarounds and become really innovative. Plus, some early successes enabled ISRO to acquire pride of place even in the mind-numbingly inefficient and corrupt bureaucracy. Due to this, they were able to largely avoid a lot of red tape that is endemic to any Indian government organization. They were able to get reasonable amounts of funding and were also able to attract some reasonable levels of talent.

In terms of talent, the situation is still quite sad as most scientists who work in ISRO either do it because of a true calling or because of patriotism or both. They still know they get paid peanuts compared to their American or Chinese counterparts. It is a near miracle that organizations like ISRO survived and even thrived in the morass that is the Indian Administration Service - an ignoble legacy of the Brits, but something that was made a hundred times worse by the Indians themselves.

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (1)

Kwyj1b0 (2757125) | about 10 months ago | (#45415247)

As such, the frugality of organizations like ISRO is more of a byproduct of the severely constrained environment in which they grew up in.

I had a chance to visit ISRO and DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) as a high school student (won some competition), and the difference in the approach was night and day. There are smart people in each organization, but the ISRO people seem to take pride in their work, and are very ambitious to succeed from the top down. They have a very efficient chain of command, and not much politics. They all work towards a common goal - there isn't the head of one lab pitching a mission to Pluto, while another one tries to demand a mission to Mercury.

On the other hand, the DRDO organization is messed up at the top - there are several people desperate to become directors of a lab, and the infighting often results in splintering. There is a 3 mile road where you can drive by six or seven different labs operating independently. While they do some good work, there are a lot of different projects that each lab tries to pitch.

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (1)

Frankie70 (803801) | about 10 months ago | (#45411719)

I don't know what NASA can come up with $ 83 Million

They will give it to CGI Federal to make nasa.gov web site which crashes & then ask people to call a 800 number where a cal center employee would describe what would have been shown if the site hadn't crashed.

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (4, Funny)

Frankie70 (803801) | about 10 months ago | (#45411739)

They didn't do everything. They did only the needful.

Re: I am at awed at their low cost ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45412681)

Maybe of interest to China or Russia, to USA, why bother, just on the print more.

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (0)

DerekLyons (302214) | about 10 months ago | (#45413105)

To my Indian friends, can you please share with us how you guys can keep the budget so low?

The same way a subcompact car is cheaper than a sedan - it's smaller and less capable. (And in the case of MOM having a smaller suite of simpler instruments.) Building cheap is one thing, actually accomplishing it's mission is another. Despite the premature hype over "on track to be the first nation to reach Mars on it's first try", it remains to be seen if this approach will be a successful one. Let's wait and see if it works before wondering how they did it so cheap.

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45413303)

Because we have a low budget.. Necessity is the mother of Invention!

Re:I am at awed at their low cost ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45418791)

Some of the reasons cited in the articles linked below:
Modularity, cost amortization over long period (engine from 1970's), optimized testing, clever orbit mechanics to minimize fuel requirements, low engineering salaries, unpaid overtime ...

NPR: Why India's Mars Mission Is So Much Cheaper Than NASA's
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/11/04/243082266/why-indias-mars-mission-is-so-much-cheaper-than-nasas

How India Launched Its Mars Mission At Cut-Rate Costs
http://www.forbes.com/sites/saritharai/2013/11/07/how-indias-isro-launched-its-mars-mission-at-cut-rate-costs/

Re:The real Triumph.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410717)

This is very exciting indeed. India has just reinvented the wheel. Awesome! I can't stop to wonder what incredible new insights will come from it.

Re:The real Triumph.... (4, Insightful)

Dunbal (464142) | about 10 months ago | (#45410951)

Are you that insecure that you must mock the success of your fellow men? India hasn't re-invented anything. They are merely affirming that they too now possess the technology. This is a good thing for mankind as a whole. It helps ensure a technological level of prowess across a broad population which means we as humans are now less likely to "go back" to a pre-space era if anything should happen to the one country that possessed the technology. You know. Kind of like when empires fall and dark ages ensue. Well now even if America collapsed, there is a technology "reservoir", just like there was an intellectual "reservoir" in the middle east when the Western Roman Empire fell.

Re:The real Triumph.... (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45412331)

You mean they're trying to scare Pakistan with their prowess in rocketry as part of a decades long religious conflict while simultaneously distracting a large section of the population from the issues of poverty, lack of education or clean water, and inequality?

I appreciate your positive outlook on life, but North Korea developing nuclear weapons usually doesn't make me say "well good, now humanity won't forget how to build them." It seems far more effective just to write things down.

Re:The real Triumph.... (1)

Greyfox (87712) | about 10 months ago | (#45412963)

It's not like the space program or any other technological advancement stands in isolation. A lot of problems that need to be solved to launch manned and unmanned missions can be applied at home, and new materials and technological jobs will benefit a wider range of the population. It's not like we were a bastion of economic success when we launched the moon missions either. As I recall, a good chunk of the 70s were spent in a recession, and a large part of our space program was designed to distract the population while frightening Russia with our prowess in rocketry. We've certainly benefited directly and indirectly from the things we learned doing that, too.

It's good to see other nations step up as the people of the USA lose sight of the long term benefits that continuing exploration brings. While we gut our economy and research apparatus for short-term political and economic gains, other nations can continue to grow. At least someone is pushing us forward.

Re:The real Triumph.... (1)

Dunbal (464142) | about 10 months ago | (#45414081)

So sending a satellite to Mars is the same as nuclear weapons? I'm confused. Anyway, weapons technologies are rarely forgotten. The only constant sound in human history is the beating of the war drum, as they say. But considering the prevalence of nuclear technology on the planet today, I think that one is here to stay too. And I doubt very much that the whole point of the Indian space program is to "scare Pakistan". That's like saying the US is building robotic armed forces to "scare Cuba".

Re:The real Triumph.... (4, Insightful)

dbIII (701233) | about 10 months ago | (#45411087)

So says the guy waving the flag so much he hasn't noticed that NASA has been stripped back so much it has to get taxi rides from the Russians to get people into space. You, me, all of us should be cheering the Indians on instead of having a pissing contest with the retired champion bringing up the glory days.

Re:The real Triumph.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45412111)

testing

Re:The real Triumph.... (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 10 months ago | (#45411251)

This is exciting. Really exciting. First the successful moon mission and now this. However, from a ISRO's standpoint, this is more significant from another angle too. With such low cost, now others are looking at India as a satellite launch country. Even before, those who wanted satellite launches, often came to ISRO if cost was an issue. But success rate was not too good. With this mission reaching this stage, ISRO has shown that it can launch any type of satellite. From satellite launch perspective, this is a complete success. No doubt about it. All these dollars invested will come back over the next few years, as more and more companies gain more trust in ISRO launch capabilities. I won't be surprised if ISRO recovers all the costs of this mission from commercial launches within the next 5 years.

That's an excellent point - and one that people who criticise India for spending money on research should listen to. If this demonstrates the ability of the ISRO it is a good investment with the potential of bringing in many times that money as revenue. Apart from that so little is known about Mars that all data collected will add to our understanding.

Re:The real Triumph.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45419225)

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade, but if half the Indian space program were actually Made in India, then I'm the Queen of England.
Check out their "indigenous" fighter aircraft [wikipedia.org] (avionics, radar, engine, +++ All purchased from abroad after failed indigenous efforts).

Also does India have a fleet of communication and control ships?
If they have to conduct all comm&command from the subcontinent they are breaking new grounds for hands-off control.

For every hicup (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45410925)

They just call tech support in Europe were a bunch of Portuguese in basements chained to the chairs answer.

Scorecard Needs Update (1)

jdschulteis (689834) | about 10 months ago | (#45411723)

The Mars Scorecard [anl.gov] could really use an update.

India to Mars (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45412581)

Now that's what I call outsourcing.....

long burn? (2)

v1 (525388) | about 10 months ago | (#45415753)

five minutes is a pretty long correcting burn... I hope they didn't go through most of their spare fuel in the process. (TBH I wouldn't have expected them to have that much available in the first place, lifting spare fuel isn't like throwing a spare headlight in the trunk, five minutes' fuel is more like throwing a spare tire in the back seat) Anyone have any data on how much "buffer fuel" they carried, and how much they went through with this fix?

Re:long burn? (1)

mustPushCart (1871520) | about 10 months ago | (#45419429)

Was a bit concerned about this as well but from what I am reading the flow to the liquid fuel engines stopped resulting in an underburn. Since it wasn't a bad directional thrust or something no fuel was wasted during the failed 4th burn so most if not all of the fuel from the 5th emergency burn was leftover from the incomplete one. Lets hope for the best.

Re:long burn? (1)

v1 (525388) | about 10 months ago | (#45429659)

I had considered that, but the issue there is, underburn results in not getting as far away from a gravity well as you intended, and that should introduce an exponentially increasing energy requirement to recover. In other words, if you only burn 10 liters in the time you meant to burn 12, you can't just burn 2 and make up for it, because it's going to require a little more than that to get where you should be?

Re:long burn? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 months ago | (#45430153)

Well yes and no I think. As long as you are above the capture velocity (where you will spiral back into the gravity well) you aren't really losing velocity to friction or altitude. So eventually it should orbit around to the point where it needs to burn and fire again. This is not the exact same point in space since the craft has gained altitude but it is the same point in its orbit i.e. the extreme ends of the ellipsis (called Apoapsis or Periapsis I'm not sure which one they are using, I only know the names because I played Kerbal space program for a while). The point is the craft doesn't fall backwards into the gravity well past a certain velocity but needs to make altitude increases only a certain point in its orbit. This is all anecdotal though so I might be wrong.

Re:long burn? (1)

mustPushCart (1871520) | about 10 months ago | (#45430219)

The AC below is me. Also I started looking things up and got pretty into reading about it. Specifically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect [wikipedia.org] that seems interesting in and off itself and also explains why the burn at that point gives the most bang for your buck.

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