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Linux 3.13 Kernel To Bring Major Feature Improvements

timothy posted about 5 months ago | from the this-is-only-the-free-version dept.

Graphics 190

An anonymous reader writes "There's many improvements due in the Linux 3.13 kernel that just entered development. On the matter of new hardware support, there's open-source driver support for Intel Broadwell and AMD Radeon R9 290 'Hawaii' graphics. NFTables will eventually replace IPTables; the multi-queue block layer is supposed to make disk access much faster on Linux; HDMI audio has improved; Stereo/3D HDMI support is found for Intel hardware; file-system improvements are on the way, along with support for limiting the power consumption of individual PC components."

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190 comments

SteamOS Will 'Really Help' Linux On the Desktop (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45440773)

"Linus Torvalds has welcomed the arrival of Valve's Linux-based platform, SteamOS, and said it could boost Linux on desktops. The Linux creator praised Valve's 'vision' and suggested its momentum would force other manufacturers to take Linux seriously — especially if game developers start to ditch Windows. Should SteamOS gain traction among gamers and developers, that could force more hardware manufacturers to extend driver support beyond Windows. That's a sore point for Torvalds, who slammed Nvidia last year for failing to support open-source driver development for its graphics chips. Now that SteamOS is on the way, Nvidia has opened up to the Linux community, something Torvalds predicts is a sign of things to come. 'I'm not just saying it'll help us get traction with the graphics guys,' he said. 'It'll also force different distributors to realize if this is how Steam is going, they need to do the same thing because they can't afford to be different in this respect. They want people to play games on their platform too.'"

i'm watching a stream of some fag play Knack... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45440949)

on PS4 that shit looks generic as fuck...is this really what the "next gen" is all about? this looks it could be a pc game from any time in the last five years. So fucking lame! PS4 fucking sucks!

http://www.twitch.tv/pkb0t33

Re:i'm watching a stream of some fag play Knack... (4, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | about 5 months ago | (#45441285)

The PS4 is just a low-end gaming PC with a Sony sticker on the front. Of course the games are going to look like something a PC could play a few years ago.

Re:i'm watching a stream of some fag play Knack... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442039)

Xbox One also. The hardware of the two is almost Identical, so don't play the fanboy card.

Re:SteamOS Will 'Really Help' Linux On the Desktop (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442093)

Steam?

Sorry, linux is a steaming turd OS on the desktop. You know what Windows and OSX provide? A sane target for programmers. Linux fragmentation quite frankly sucks.

That's why the ones who take Linux and turn it into something (like Google to Android) have quite control of the whole chain of which the kernel is only a piece.

Year of Linux on the desktop is utterly meaningless because of that. Any Linux you'll eventually get will be quite unrecognizable from the Linux distro you download and install and muck around with.

Re:SteamOS Will 'Really Help' Linux On the Desktop (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442129)

It will help it as far as hardware support is concerned, it will not attract more developers (except game developers).

Re: SteamOS Will 'Really Help' Linux On the Deskto (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442217)

If your programmers cannot figure out which libraries to use and/or link everything statically, might I suggest that instead if crying fragmentation they look for a different profession.

Re: SteamOS Will 'Really Help' Linux On the Deskto (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442481)

If you think that is the only issue with fragmentation, Linux tards are even bigger morons than I gave them credit for.

Re: SteamOS Will 'Really Help' Linux On the Deskto (1)

knightghost (861069) | about 5 months ago | (#45442495)

Dynamic linking usually fails. New versions of code rarely adequately support backwards compatibility. Java is probably the worst offender. Any long term stable system is going to have 20+ versions of java or other libraries to maintain stability of its programs.

So many improvements (4, Funny)

Tough Love (215404) | about 5 months ago | (#45440803)

So many improvements! Which proves that right now Linux must really suck. It's a good thing then, that Windows, FreeBSD, AIX, Solaris, etc etc can be counted on to suck far worse.

Re:So many improvements (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45440843)

I don't even count Windows as an operating system. It's a toy. A worthless tool to be able to run a browser or games. But it will go away soon.

Re:So many improvements (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441081)

That is what 99.9% of the population wants and needs. Slashdot is the 0.01%.

Re:So many improvements (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441139)

You're obviously new to Slashdot. Slashdot may, at first glance, appear to be the intelligent and knowledgeable 0.01%, but it is really the idiotic 99.999999999999%.

Re:So many improvements (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441269)

The idiotic 99.999999999999% beg the government to take away their freedoms in exchange for security theater, so barring a few people who use Slashdot (*cough*cold fjord*cough*), Slashdot doesn't really qualify.

Re:So many improvements (5, Funny)

swillden (191260) | about 5 months ago | (#45441341)

Slashdot may, at first glance, appear to be the intelligent and knowledgeable 0.01%, but it is really the idiotic 99.999999999999%

So, you're saying slashdot is everyone?

(You'd need 10^14 people -- more than 100,000 times the population of the planet -- in order for the 0.000000000001% to equal one person.)

Re:So many improvements (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442675)

Not sure why is this "funny". It should be "Obvious if you bother to take math in highschool"

Re:So many improvements (2, Insightful)

hcs_$reboot (1536101) | about 5 months ago | (#45441343)

Unfortunately it won't any time soon. The reason? MS Office, and its billions of unmaintainable macros that keep most companies from being able to switch to something else. Sad, but true.

Re:So many improvements (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442051)

You're wrong, MS Office really isn't needed anymore. There are tons of Office Suits out there now, choose one and go on with your life.

Re:So many improvements (1)

Hussam Al-Tayeb (3423459) | about 5 months ago | (#45441725)

I don't even count Windows as an operating system. It's a toy. A worthless tool to be able to run a browser or games. But it will go away soon.

also almost all structural, architectural, and engineering applications on the planet. all of those require windows.

Re:So many improvements (1)

F.Ultra (1673484) | about 5 months ago | (#45442103)

all of those require windows.

At the moment yes, nothing is set in stone here, it's not like it's impossible for these software's to be ported if the demand comes.

Re:So many improvements (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442239)

No they don't. There's more or less a complete set of engineering applications running on linux.
Example: http://www.ansys.com/staticassets/ANSYS/staticassets/support/platform-support-14.5-detailed-summary.pdf

Re:So many improvements (5, Interesting)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 5 months ago | (#45440881)

Mehhh. I used to update my kernel as quickly as possible when they promised major improvements. It always turns out that a "major improvement" is actually an "incremental improvement". I lost the excitement over kernel upgrades some time ago. I still upgrade from time to time, but my attention is more focused on security than any supposed "improvements". I don't want to be the odd guy who is caught with some vulnerability that was fixed eight versions ago. Two versions, maybe - but eight? Nope, no way! That would be just to embarrassing.

Security fix backports (4, Insightful)

tepples (727027) | about 5 months ago | (#45440931)

I still upgrade from time to time, but my attention is more focused on security than any supposed "improvements". I don't want to be the odd guy who is caught with some vulnerability that was fixed eight versions ago.

Some Linux distributors, instead of providing a new kernel that may break old applications or devices, instead backport security fixes to an old kernel.

Re:Security fix backports (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45440971)

Some Linux distributors, instead of providing a new kernel that may break old applications or devices, instead backport security fixes to an old kernel.

Kernel upgrades are not suppose to break userspace.

Not all security fixes are always marked as such and get backported.

Re:Security fix backports (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442225)

Kernel upgrades are not suppose to break userspace.

All drivers are supposed to be open source and applications should not depend on undocumented (or even documented) implementation details. Both these assumptions do not survive an encounter with reality. Sometimes this is expected (binary blob drivers), in other cases it might be a bug that only appears in a new kernel (scheduler change -> race condition, order of results changed). This is not even a Linux exclusive problem, the amount of application bugs that get exposed by changes on windows isn't small either and AFAIK microsoft even had to add checks for the process name in order to support older applications that broke with the new implementations (for example SimCity 2000 got a special memory allocator to avoid segfaults).

Re:Security fix backports (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441235)

I still upgrade from time to time, but my attention is more focused on security than any supposed "improvements". I don't want to be the odd guy who is caught with some vulnerability that was fixed eight versions ago.

Some Linux distributors, instead of providing a new kernel that may break old applications or devices, instead backport security fixes to an old kernel.

The Ubuntu LTS+HWE model is interesting; you can basically install the kernel from Ubuntu 12.10, 13.04, or 13.10 on your 12.04 LTS system.

Re:Security fix backports (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442319)

Some Linux distributors, instead of providing a new kernel that may break old applications or devices, instead backport security fixes to an old kernel.

Why does Linus allow kernel updates that break applications and drivers? Oh... I forgot, because he can and there is no one to chew him out with vulgarity and death threats.

Re:So many improvements (2)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 5 months ago | (#45440963)

when I used normal video hardware, I could upgrade kernels all I wanted.

with stupid fucking nvidia (binary blobs) I am stuck at their mercy. 3.11 was a hard one for nvidia (nothing worked out of the box and needed work-arounds) and of course NV was slow as hell to do their own update.

its a laptop so I can't swap out the video card. I hate nvidia and their closed source driver. nouveau is not working for me as I need multiple displays (external dvi pairs) and so I'm stuck with the nv binary driver.

when that is 'ready', THEN I'll be able to run the matching kernel for it.

sigh...

(I had a nice shiny new 802.11ac intel card I wanted to use, but it needed 3.11 to run and my nv card would not run with 3.11).

Re:So many improvements (2, Insightful)

TCM (130219) | about 5 months ago | (#45441263)

Sounds awesome - and you're not even running any applications yet. Some people just don't have that amount of time to piss away, though.

Re:So many improvements (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442067)

Piss away? I use to spend 10-20 minutes running through driver install "Wizards" in Windows that still needed to be tweaked to be usable. All the add-on devices I have, I simply plug it in to Linux and it just works. So who again is pissing away time?.

Example: Almost 20 minutes of installing and tweaking to install my Logitech Wingman Cordless in Windows. 3 Seconds and I'm running in Linux. It's not the 90's anymore people, wake up from all the misinformation you've been fed by Ballmer and the MS Fanboys.

That's a cold, hard fact. Any Linux user, real Linux user can tell you how easy it is; not the "I use Windows 99% of the time, but I have a Linux partition" people.

Re:So many improvements (1)

gmack (197796) | about 5 months ago | (#45442243)

I had the same problem with the Nvidia drivers but 3.12 was such a large difference on my other systems that I spent the time and patched the Nvidia drivers myself using patches I found using a Google search "Nvidia Linux 3.1.2".

You should be able to do the same but if you get stuck, feel free to contact me for help.

Re:So many improvements (1)

KiloByte (825081) | about 5 months ago | (#45442361)

As you build your own kernels instead of using distro-provided binaries, what's the reason to not skip a release you don't like? 3.11 breaks VirtualBox, it works fine both with 3.10 and 3.12-rc (and now with 3.12.0). A regression that lasts is bad, one that has been fixed in a later version means just "please upgrade".

bcache is a HUGE improvement for some workloads (5, Interesting)

raymorris (2726007) | about 5 months ago | (#45441313)

Bcache, merged in 3.11, improves IO up to 100X. Not 100%, 100X, or 10,000%. It may well be worth an upgrade if you're running a distro 2.3x and have random IO on multi TB storage.

Re:bcache is a HUGE improvement for some workloads (1)

AliasMarlowe (1042386) | about 5 months ago | (#45441909)

Bcache, merged in 3.11, improves IO up to 100X. Not 100%, 100X, or 10,000%. It may well be worth an upgrade if you're running a distro 2.3x and have random IO on multi TB storage.

The multi-queue block layer [phoronix.com] which is merged in kernel 3.13 gives a 3.5x to 10x increase in IOPS. This change is mostly targeted for SSDs, but gives similar improvements on HDs as well. However, it's not clear whether this improvement is relative to 3.11 or not.

Re:bcache is a HUGE improvement for some workloads (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442005)

Bcache (merged in 3.10, btw) has one very big drawback for me. To prevent writing to the backing partition (your 'multi TB storage') outside of bcache you have to convert your those partitions to some bcache format that writes a custom superblock. As far as I can tell this conversion is one-way only and the tool to do it in-place (as opposed to format-and-restore-from-backup) is not supported by the bcache folks, although I may be wrong here.

Semi-related ps: For non-enterprise workloads there are several fuse-based caching mechanisms that do not need a conversion of the backing store.

Re:bcache is a HUGE improvement for some workloads (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 months ago | (#45442473)

Bcache (merged in 3.10, btw) has one very big drawback for me. To prevent writing to the backing partition (your 'multi TB storage') outside of bcache you have to convert your those partitions to some bcache format that writes a custom superblock. As far as I can tell this conversion is one-way only and the tool to do it in-place (as opposed to format-and-restore-from-backup) is not supported by the bcache folks, although I may be wrong here.

This is precisely why I have not even tried to implement it, even just to see if it's good. This requirement is a complete non-starter, and I have never heard any technical reason why it is a necessity. Indeed, if the idea is to cache blocks, then you should be able to cache any kind of blocks. If that is unworkable within this architecture, the project should be thrown away and reinitiated by someone with some standards. Forcing a new format on users that won't be back-compatible with older kernels and distributions when it's not necessary is completely unacceptable.

Sad, though, because I really want what it does. Perhaps someday dm-cache [fiu.edu] will make it into mainline. It does what we want it to do, but it's not mainlined and it only appears for some kernel versions - looks like 3.0.8 is the latest.

Re:bcache is a HUGE improvement for some workloads (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442611)

EnchanceIO is an alternate ssd caching solution for linux. It's a kernel module that can be setup against any existing FS and can be attached/removed even whilst the FS is mounted. Supports writeback/writethrough and a bunch of cache replacement algorithms.

Re:bcache is a HUGE improvement for some workloads (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 months ago | (#45442959)

EnchanceIO is an alternate ssd caching solution for linux. It's a kernel module that can be setup against any existing FS and can be attached/removed even whilst the FS is mounted. Supports writeback/writethrough and a bunch of cache replacement algorithms.

Well, I used teh google and found out that it's a commercial product but that it's also open source [github.com] . Actually, it's Free Software, apparently GPLv2 [github.com] .

So what I get from this is that this is basically dm-cache as a module. Yes? Hmm, either I need to install more deps, or this isn't going to work on 3.11

Re:bcache is a HUGE improvement for some workloads (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442295)

Hyperbole. Bcache may improve IO 10x - 100x for highly localized and frequently re-used blocks. It does NOT improve overall IO up to 100x.

Re:So many improvements (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441067)

So many improvements! Which proves that right now Linux must really suck. It's a good thing then, that Windows, FreeBSD, AIX, Solaris, etc etc can be counted on to suck far worse.

You forgot to list OS X and let's face it no /. troll is complete with out taking a shot at the Anti Christ.

Re:So many improvements (1)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | about 5 months ago | (#45442681)

That is some of the most absurd thinking I have ever heard. The fact that things improve and get better does not mean that things are bad as they are now. These new features are additions to an already great product. Linux as it is is already better than Windows, so the new features will make it better still. Notice as well, that each Windows realese always comes with a long list of improvements from the last version. The whole purpose of having new versions is to improve things and add new capability. Had this not been done you would still be at Linux 0.01 with the Minix FS, no graphics, really not much of anything people expect of a modern OS. Why dont you just go back to using MS-DOS if you dont want any modern features, and leave us alone. For most that would be miserable and most people want a powerful capable OS and do not want to use MS-DOS, and like to be able to have things like graphics, web browsers, 3D games, improved, more powerful facilities that make it easier to develop new applications, servers, etc.

Re:So many improvements (1)

UnknownSoldier (67820) | about 5 months ago | (#45442949)

Note: My 2nd desktop is Linux 3.5 + GTX Titan + 16 GB @ 2560x1440 and love it for development.

You are missing one thing:

*BSD's pf focuses on getting it right instead of Linux always re-inventing some half-assed packet filtering every few years. I find *BSD to focus on stability and Linux to focus on flavor-of-the-month re-implementation of features. i.e. Leading Edge vs Bleeding Edge.

My Win7 box has been reduced to just gaming (aka Steam) but I prefer OSX or Linux for development and CUDA research.

There *are* many improvements (1, Troll)

larry bagina (561269) | about 5 months ago | (#45440851)

Posted by timothy on Fri Nov 15, '13 10:04 PM

Go figure. I would accuse Dice of firing the editors and replacing them with ESL wage slaves but that would probably be an improvement.

Re:There *are* many improvements (1)

NoMaster (142776) | about 5 months ago | (#45441603)

Posted by timothy on Fri Nov 15, '13 10:04 PM

Go figure. I would accuse Dice of firing the editors and replacing them with ESL wage slaves but that would probably be an improvement.

It was posted 9:34AM Saturday, Indian time.

Just sayin'...

Nice (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45440875)

I always wanted a Linux growing up, but I wasn't allowed to have a pet. Seriously though Linux is far better than most of the shit these days being masqueraded like they're pure gold to a bunch of simpletons lacking in the technology dept.

That's only going to work for so long until the next generation hits adulthood.

Re:Nice (1, Insightful)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 5 months ago | (#45440945)

"That's only going to work for so long until the next generation hits adulthood."

Do you really think so? The "next generation" is in high school right now, taking "computer science" courses, that consist of teaching Microsoft Office. What the next generation actually needs, is to learn to question authority. If they can learn that lesson, then maybe they can break the corporate lock-in tradition that the current generation seems so happy with.

Time will tell, of course. If Microsoft, Apple, and the major manufacturers start losing big money, then you'll be proven right.

Re:Nice (4, Insightful)

Mitchell314 (1576581) | about 5 months ago | (#45441047)

What the next generation actually needs, is to learn to question authority

Apparently somebody's never met a teenager before. :P

Re:Nice (5, Interesting)

cykros (2538372) | about 5 months ago | (#45441273)

Teenagers don't question authority, by and large. They yell, throw tantrums, stomp their feet, and make a lot of noise, and then once that angst is out of their system, they promptly tend to get to doing whatever it is that the authorities have told them they should do to "get ahead".

In any case, it's not about authority here...the real issue is that to most teenagers, or most people in general, a computer is merely an entertainment device, rather than a powerful tool that can be tailored to one's own needs. It doesn't matter how easy the latest user-friendly scripting language gets, "programming" remains something they envision as involving binary and machine code, purely there for autistic folks and aliens.

What we really need is to integrate programming of SOME kind into the general curriculum of our schoolchildren. And for Christ's sake, leave enough holes open on the local school network for kids to have fun learning to poke holes in the restrictive environment you've set them up in. The classes teach them HOW to do things, and the rebelliousness of getting around the restrictions gets them interested in doing them (and then the combination of heavy handed laws and bug bounty programs bring them back into societal correctness once they enter adulthood...hopefully).

The absolute LAST thing kids need is a user friendly interface. Save those for grandma, give the kid a raspberry pi, a book on Python, and then put them up behind a firewall that blocks most anything their friends will be wasting their time with. Not because you want to keep the kid OFF of such sites, but to make them at least learn a thing or two from time to time in their attempts to waste time in an otherwise purely wasteful manner.

Re:Nice (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441333)

The last thing we need is yet another generation of people who think writing SEO-web shit or yet another fart app is programming. We need to at least have a generation that is capable of maintaining infrastructure, be it the Linux kernel, core apps, or at least knowing how the fuck to access a disk on a sector basis.

At one job, I was looking for programmers who knew what they were doing about cryptography. Met lots who could do cutesy API stuff and very well animated lock icons, but someone who could actually look at example source code for coding some actual security infrastructure were impossible to find.

At least give the kids something to fight for. Put a firewall in place, and let them figure out how to VPN out at the minimum.

We need fewer point and drool programmers... we need more people who actually can figure out lower level infrastructure and not just tied to the highest level in the computing stack.

Re:Nice (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441695)

Nah just need to remove the absurd penalty involved if you get caught hacking the school network, at least as long as you don't use your exploits for any sort of personal gain. I had a lot of fun playing with the school network. Despite never once taking advantage to having full reign over the system I was thrown out of school for a year when I got caught. The effect it had on my life after school was enough to turn me away from hacking. In the 10 years since that was added to my record I have had a total of three jobs, I gave up even trying to find a normal job because I'm sick and tired of explaining it and getting turned away because of it.

What really added insult to injury was that the kids that picked fights on a regular bases almost always got detention for that, a couple got kicked out for a week, but none of them kicked out for a whole school year. It pisses me off so much that I'm shaking in anger just thinking about it.

Re:Nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441279)

I have. Most of them (like most adults) are idiots who ask the most trivial questions and don't question authority where it counts. What they usually do is mindlessly oppose everything, and that leads to them growing up and forgetting all about it.

Re:Nice (2)

PopeRatzo (965947) | about 5 months ago | (#45441079)

I'm not sure what's going on in the school district you're in, but I've been in some Chicago Public Schools recently and they're teaching the kids a lot more than just "Microsoft Office".

I brought home one of the puzzles that some of the kids made on a 3D printer using some CAD program. It had nothing to do with Office. There were Linux machines scattered around the room and lots of the kids had iPhones or Android phones (not part of school, but don't think they're not learning how to work those platforms, make apps, etc). Now this happened to be a "selective enrollment" school (where you have to test in) but I don't think they're going all that far afield from what's happening in other schools.

I was pretty surprised at how well they seemed to be doing in terms of avoiding the obvious. Now, you'll still see Office in some of the career prep courses, but not anything like what I saw in schools' computer labs back in the early 2000s.

Re:Nice (1)

Runaway1956 (1322357) | about 5 months ago | (#45442779)

My youngest son graduated high school three years ago, in southwest Arkansas. I taught the boy more about computers than the school system did - then the little smart ass learned at least five times as much as I taught him, on his own. He is putting himself through college, and informs me that the majority of the courses, majority of the teachers, and majority of the students are clueless boobs who can't do much more than the Microsoft-centric high schools taught them.

I'm sure that mileage does vary, depending on location, but Microsoft still has a lot of lock-in going for them in the school systems.

too late... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45440877)

already switched to osx years ago.

Intel support is stellar this time. (5, Interesting)

deviated_prevert (1146403) | about 5 months ago | (#45440889)

Considering that the 14NM Broadwell chips are not scheduled to ship till the second quarter of 2014. With support for power saving per component coming along it looks like using the Linux kernel on laptops will also be much more inviting. It is all well and good that the advances in the kernel hardware support are keeping pace with what Microsoft is doing. I am still eagerly awaiting a great high end powerhouse Linux laptop. As it is the old IBM T42 non-pae clunker that I am writing this on is still very usable but if a company ever finally does ship an OS agnostic laptop with high specs I will jump at the chance.

The temperatures in hell are dropping but I am not going to hold my breath as Windows still holds the retailers and manufacturers by the balls to say the least. However with both Intel and AMD actively supporting the Linux kernel this quickly for their most important product lines perhaps a manufacturer like Samsung or Lenovo might actually try to market a real full blown Linux based device for a change instead of just dabbling in Android consumer craptronic devices.

Re:Intel support is stellar this time. (1)

Nerdfest (867930) | about 5 months ago | (#45440983)

I'm not sure what you require for high specs, but System76 has some decent 'gaming class' laptops that might fit the bill. Their Bonobo 17" maxed out a pretty decent machine, though quite heavy for a laptop.

Re:Intel support is stellar this time. (1)

deviated_prevert (1146403) | about 5 months ago | (#45441931)

I'm not sure what you require for high specs, but System76 has some decent 'gaming class' laptops that might fit the bill. Their Bonobo 17" maxed out a pretty decent machine, though quite heavy for a laptop.

I am hoping that the newer chips next year will will sip power in laptop form and get battery times up over 10 hours like a tablet can. Unfortunately the gaming type of laptops being made right now, though powerful enough to do everything I do are still power hungry and heavy as a brick. The Broadwell specs are incredible however especially for laptops and with a good 6-9 cell battery should easily out distance anything on the market today for performance and battery times. I currently get 5 hours out of an aftermarket 9 cell add on on this old T42 which is still better than most high end laptops with i5s and i7s.

Re:Intel support is stellar this time. (1)

WaroDaBeast (1211048) | about 5 months ago | (#45441805)

[...] the old IBM T42 non-pae clunker that I am writing this on is still very usable

Out of curiosity, which distro do you run on that machine? I'm asking this question because distros that do not have PAE as a requirements are rare birds, so to speak.

Re:Intel support is stellar this time. (1)

deviated_prevert (1146403) | about 5 months ago | (#45441921)

[...] the old IBM T42 non-pae clunker that I am writing this on is still very usable

Out of curiosity, which distro do you run on that machine? I'm asking this question because distros that do not have PAE as a requirements are rare birds, so to speak.

Mint but not current, but Slackware current can run it and so can Knoppix. You just have to chose the right kernel options.

Re:Intel support is stellar this time. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441945)

Just select a 486 kernel from your distro: works very nicely for my pentium-M fanless laptop (the cpu does not even support NX) currently running Debian Wheezy.

sounds like a bloated pos to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45440893)

i have enough win boxes i need to tweak on a daily basis just to get them to act like a computer.
now some newb decides he's gonna turn my iptables into roadkill?
FU.

Re:sounds like a bloated pos to me (1)

Gravis Zero (934156) | about 5 months ago | (#45440993)

i have enough win boxes i need to tweak on a daily basis just to get them to act like a computer.
now some newb decides he's gonna turn my iptables into roadkill?

U MAD BRO?

Re:sounds like a bloated pos to me (1)

BitZtream (692029) | about 5 months ago | (#45442257)

Yes. Its another example of change for the sake of change rather than meaningful development. Thats obnoxious and wasteful.

Re:sounds like a bloated pos to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441297)

What are you, some grandpa who can't learn new things?!

When the old shit is so fucked up by design that it can't possibly be made to work nicely, of course you have to have something new and shiny! This isn't some stupid BSD that works for 20 years with the same packet filter that can be adapted to new needs, you fool!

This. Is. Leeeenox!

Re:sounds like a bloated pos to me (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441419)

bro im old enough to still be pissed when they ditched ipchains, meanwhile bsd just works.

linux is the windows of unix, a subpar off brand alternative that got big because ibm promoted it.

Re:sounds like a bloated pos to me (1)

sjames (1099) | about 5 months ago | (#45441885)

No. There will be a translation layer that looks like iptables you can use.

Right... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45440947)

This is just a cash grab by the Linux developers.

blast! video card improvements! (1)

Gravis Zero (934156) | about 5 months ago | (#45440969)

sure i'll tear out my video card, fork over cash and put in a better supported one but which is best supported now?! they improved the Intel, AMD and NVidia video card drivers! dammit, cant they just improve one video card driver at a time?!

will these first world problems never end?!

Firewire still a PITA! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441325)

I've been using linux for a while and until I can hookup my firewire Edirol FA-66 straight up from an install with any distro I will
Continue duel booting with windows. If something does work and I update it.It ends up breaking something. Or the next release distro wont work at all I'm getting extremely p&$@ ed off of late. Sense about 8.04 of ubuntu. Version 10 or 12 of slackware. Around 2011 with distros thing have just gone ta crap. Config files init scripts get changed, shifted, fuggin moved around short linked to something somewhere .It gets a bit teeny weeny annoying. And by 2013 you'd think things would have been down pat by now!Cmon. Im going to grit my teeth have shell out for a MAC!. Or sell everything to get linux in a Korg OASIS. If friggin Korg can do it right someone else can.I prepare to pay maybe not the equivalent of the Korg OASIS. I just want something that works!.

Re:Firewire still a PITA! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441685)

Don't hold back, tell us what you really feel :)

The FA-66 works for me (TM) on Debian with the ffado driver, if I recall correctly it worked out-of-the box (no futzing with udev/device nodes what have you). You _have_ to use jack-firewire though. If you want a gui you could try qjackctl (sp?) I guess, but have not tried it myself. As for updating your distro: Debian rarely introduces regressions when (dist)upgrading, while Ubuntu is very, very bad in this department imnsho.

Re:Firewire still a PITA! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441963)

You don't need to shell out anything for a MAC - you already got one free with your NIC.

Ad: Innovation Alliance (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 5 months ago | (#45441339)

Oh God that is one hilarious ad landing page. Well worth the click to earn your innovation protection badge!

very nice management software (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441557)

Bahaquote quote features as given in its website ‘Add delete customers on the fly’, ‘Attach images’, ‘Permission Levels’, ‘Supervisory controls’. All I can say is that they stand up to the expectations.

iptables (1)

Hussam Al-Tayeb (3423459) | about 5 months ago | (#45441617)

Will there be a compatibility layer so I can still use the iptables application/syntax for a while?

Re: iptables (1)

Behrooz Amoozad (2831361) | about 5 months ago | (#45441657)

Yes, There is a compatibility layer already.
I think it was mentioned on phoronix like 2 weeks ago.You may find it you go back in their archives far enough.

Re:iptables (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441661)

A better question is when will the documentation for iptables be finished? If NFTables is actually going to have good docs, then I say make a clean break and forget iptables ever existed.

NOUVEAU's most important updates yet. (1)

DMJC (682799) | about 5 months ago | (#45441797)

What's not mentioned in the news article is that the most important updates to Nouveau are being posted in the 3.13 kernel. There's going to be Power Management support for most current generation graphics cards. This is a huge thing. Performance wise it is going to lead to a massive jump in performance on the Nouveau drivers. The only other outstanding parts of nouveau are the OpenCL support, and the SLI support. After this update it should be possible to use the nouveau drivers for a lot more serious 3d work than they have been used for in the past.

Re:NOUVEAU's most important updates yet. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45441975)

"Outstanding" is one of those words can mean one thing or the opposite. In this case upon first reading I thought you claimed that OpenCL support is excellent, and on next reading realised that it was absent.

Next, fix the desktop (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#45441827)

The kernel is now done. It has been done for years. Of course new hardware comes and needs to be supported. But everything in that department is rolling quite nicely. The kernel guys know what they are doing. The Linux kernel is stable and if a problem pops up, it gets fixed.

So these days the kernel is a nice black box which I don't have to worry about. Now, fix the desktop. That's where the interesting stuff is happening. Fix the terrible performance problems and lack of configurability of Unity. Make a rich graphical configuration tool [thewindowsplanet.com] for touchpads. Make the boot process beautiful: currently I just see the distro logo flashing in and out with some occasional scary lines printed in framebuffer console. Fix the little glitches [askubuntu.com] here and there (quality assurance?!). Make DVD burning work correctly. Make it so that I have to never fight video tearing.

Re:Next, fix the desktop (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442061)

None of that has anything to to with Linux, which if you please remember is not an operating system. It is just a kernel.

Re:Next, fix the desktop (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 months ago | (#45442493)

Not only is the kernel never done, but the GUI is worked on by completely different people. I don't know the name of your logical fallacy, but I like to call it the GNOME and KDE fallacy in nerdland. If all those people just worked on one DE, it would be great right? No, it would suck horribly. Too many cooks with their own ideas. But you're even farther off the mark because you want people who like to write kernel code to write application code. That's like asking a cabinet maker to build you a house... or asking an ordinary carpenter to build your cabinets. Either one can probably do the job, but they're specialized for a reason.

Re:Next, fix the desktop (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 5 months ago | (#45442747)

I'm not asking the kernel guys to write the desktop software. :D I just wish the desktop stack had a similar level of quality to the kernel.

3.13 = MAAAAAJOR FEATURES.... 4.0 = minor bugfixes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442055)

What the fuck is wrong with you Linus?

BTRFS stable when (4, Insightful)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | about 5 months ago | (#45442265)

When is BTRFS finally going to be declared stable and become default on major distros? Its features were needed years ago. The Copy on Write features are killer features that have been needed on Linux for years, such as to implement a filesystem level versioning, system restore an restore point feature and improved snapshot features. Ext4 is only a stop-gap and Ext is really starting to show its age.

Re:BTRFS stable when (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442269)

Yeah, Copy-on-Write is just wonderful for SSDs where a precious few erase cycles can be used up willy nilly by software developers who think hardware resources are infinite.

Re:BTRFS stable when (1)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | about 5 months ago | (#45442715)

Thats a total non issue, you turn off COW on those devices, or anywhere its not wanted. Duh? I would fully expect that COW should be an optional feature, in fact, it probably wouldnt be used until you turn it on by creating a restore point, snapshot, ot something such as that.

Re:BTRFS stable when (1)

Bengie (1121981) | about 5 months ago | (#45442789)

19nm 250GB SSDs are good for about 500TB of writes. Most people aren't too concerned. They already figured out how to make SSDs have infinite writes, they just need to figure out how to mass-produce the feature. Upcoming MRAM based SSDs, which are scheduled for the next 1-2 years, will inherently have no write limitations, so no wear leveling at all. You can already buy a 750GB SSD for $500.

Re:BTRFS stable when (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 5 months ago | (#45442299)

Supposedly OpenSUSE was going to set BTRFS as default during installation.

Re:BTRFS stable when (1)

MarsLander (742092) | about 5 months ago | (#45442429)

Try ZFSOnLinux. It's not merged into the kernel mainline for licensing reasons, but it is easy enough to install, is well tested, and has all the features you need (and more).

Re:BTRFS stable when (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 5 months ago | (#45442483)

Requiring a component that isn't just found on your distribution's LiveCD is a recipe for nightmares later if something goes wrong. Your suggestion is wholly inappropriate for anyone who might ever have to work on their computer.

Re:BTRFS stable when (3, Interesting)

fnj (64210) | about 5 months ago | (#45442775)

ZoL all the way. I know longer care if the BTRFS glacier _ever_ arrives.

I was hesitant, thinking ZoL was toy status, but I bit the bullet, installed and took the learning curve. It seems fully mature to me. I had confused ZoL with the ZFS Fuse toy, but ithey are completely separate things. ZoL is a high performance, reliable and mature "real" kernel mode file system.

Creating an 18TB double parity RAID-Z2 storage pool takes only a handful of seconds and is completely ready to go. There is no traditional long "build" stage. In general all "mkfs" operations are essentially instantaneous.

For me on CentOS6 it was a simple repo addition and "yum install". It hooks into DKMS for when I do future kernel upgrades.

Define "much faster" (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 5 months ago | (#45442781)

the multi-queue block layer is supposed to make disk access much faster on Linux

What do you mean by "much faster"? Have we been chugging along in the slow lane all these years?

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