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Canonical Developer Warns About Banking With Linux Mint

samzenpus posted about 8 months ago | from the family-fight dept.

Ubuntu 206

sfcrazy writes "Ubuntu developer Oliver Grawert does not prefer to do online banking with Linux Mint. In the official mailing list of the distribution, Ubuntu developers stated that the popular Ubuntu derivative is a vulnerable system and people shouldn't go for online banking on it. One of the Ubuntu developers, Oliver Grawert, originally pointed out that it is not necessary that security updates from Ubuntu get down to Linux Mint users since changes from X.Org, the kernel, Firefox, the boot-loader, and other core components are blocked from being automatically upgraded." Clement Lefebvre, the Linux Mint project founder, has since made a statement and confirmed that Oliver Grawert seems "more opinionated than knowledgeable" adding "the press blew what he said out of proportion."

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Banking? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458583)

Is that something similar to Bitcoins [freebitco.in] ?

Re:Banking? (0)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 8 months ago | (#45458899)

Is that something similar to Bitcoins [freebitco.in] ?

One day it may well be - but with the individual being his/her own bank instead of paying for some other entity to store the stuff.

Re: Banking? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459263)

I'm putting all my bitcoins into tulip futures!

like we needed more ammo (4, Insightful)

X0563511 (793323) | about 8 months ago | (#45458587)

Nice job Oliver - we really needed more ammunition in the Everyone vs Canonical battle.

Re:like we needed more ammo (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458623)

Reminds me of the http://xkcd.com/435/ [xkcd.com] but wtih plain vanilla Debian instead of Mathemeticians.

Re:like we needed more ammo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458721)

what about Gentoo and even more so LFS ?

Re:like we needed more ammo (2)

wile_e8 (958263) | about 8 months ago | (#45458839)

Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu (or Debian). Ubuntu is based on Debian. Gentoo and LFS are an entirely different branch of the distro family tree.

Re:like we needed more ammo (2)

Darfeld (1147131) | about 8 months ago | (#45458753)

More like Linux from scratch instead of Mathematician, gentooist as physicist, Debian as chemist...

Re:like we needed more ammo (4, Funny)

fisted (2295862) | about 8 months ago | (#45458885)

Nice to be on top with LFS, right?
Wait.. Oh, Hey, we didn't see you guys all the way over there!
Yours, The BSDs

Re:like we needed more ammo (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459137)

Your joke doesn't actually work. The relationship between BSD and Linux is not analogous to the relationship between math and physics. Linux is not "applied BSD".

Then, of course, there are those of us who use both because we're not concerned with petty pissing matches.

Re:like we needed more ammo (4, Insightful)

Eggplant62 (120514) | about 8 months ago | (#45458867)

This is the stupidest thing I've ever read. Not only is it a blow to Mint, but to free software in general. I just got done crowing to friends that Linux isn't full of NSA backdoors, and then this pops up on newsfeed. Sheiss.

I suppose our developer doesn't understand that one can go with slightly more intelligent tools, like apt-get on the CLI, to get those packages upgraded? If so, he's no developer I'd give a shit about.

Re:like we needed more ammo (4, Insightful)

exomondo (1725132) | about 8 months ago | (#45458975)

I suppose our developer doesn't understand that one can go with slightly more intelligent tools, like apt-get on the CLI, to get those packages upgraded? If so, he's no developer I'd give a shit about.

He likely does, but that's not really the point is it? It's whether the average users know to do this.

Re:like we needed more ammo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459079)

I just got done crowing to friends that Linux isn't full of NSA backdoors,

Then it's your own fault for making stupid statements. How exactly did you verify this?

Re:like we needed more ammo (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459697)

I just got done crowing to friends that Linux isn't full of NSA backdoors, and then this pops up on newsfeed.

You're in good company.

In September, IBM announced it had invested another billion dollars in Linux development. They've chosen that path because governments and companies overseas who have been big customers of American tech are having second thoughts and cancelling orders. IBM can see an opportunity to pick up new customers by providing a demonstrably clean Linux platform.

IBM, and many of their customers have long known about the purposeful security issues of Windows 8 machines, and have banned them from use when sensitive work is done. Internally in IBM, anyone using applications that run only on Windows have to get special permission and run an instance of Windows 7 (not W8) in a VM on Red Hat.IBM’s stated reasons are stability, security, protection from viruses, and reduced risk of remote takeover of the computer.

Re:like we needed more ammo (1)

retchdog (1319261) | about 8 months ago | (#45459981)

Interesting. IBM has been moving to Linux internally for a while, which only makes sense for business reasons. Do you have a cite on banning W8, and running W7 only on VMs?

Re:like we needed more ammo (0)

riis138 (3020505) | about 8 months ago | (#45458989)

I know right!

Re:like we needed more ammo (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459287)

http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/lots-of-canonical-in-my-mouth/

YearOfTheLinuxDesktop!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458615)

This is why you freetards will never win the desktop. Spending more time taking potshots over making useful software. If you want to get serious work done you don't use freetard crap.

Re:YearOfTheLinuxDesktop!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458995)

Yet Microsoft is the biggest joke these days!

Re:YearOfTheLinuxDesktop!!! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459225)

Because Year of the Linux Desktop went from being a joke to just being sad. Look at what Google accomplished with Linux yet the desktop folks are still bickering and blaming users for the lack of adoption. It is a clear example of where "dogfooding" doesnt work, Microsoft does it too little and the desktop Linux community does it too much, everything seems simple and intuitive when you have spent so much time on it and have a keen interest in it but the average user (90%+ of the target audience) doesn't. That is why this issue with MINT seems like a non-issue to MINT users and developers, they actually understand the perils and benefits of pulling in these updates but an average user does not and this is not clearly communicated to those average users either but by all means continue to just say these users are idiots and move on ignoring them.

Re:YearOfTheLinuxDesktop!!! (2)

amiga3D (567632) | about 8 months ago | (#45459299)

Face it, Linux isn't for everyone and may never be. So fucking what? It's good for the people that use it. It's been my desktop since 1999 when I finally retired my Amiga 3000. It's the desktop of choice of a lot of people. I've seen the average windows user and guess what? They mostly don't know what they're doing. The overwhelming majority of windows users happily install malware on their computers on a daily basis. That's the desktop we're shooting for in the Linux community? Average users are going to fuck up their systems regardless of what platform they use.

Lots of this lately (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458661)

if you can't say how good your product is. tell everyone how shitty everyone elses product is.

Re:Lots of this lately (2, Insightful)

similar_name (1164087) | about 8 months ago | (#45459125)

Sounds like politics.

SubjectsInCommentsAreStupid (1)

lesincompetent (2836253) | about 8 months ago | (#45458669)

Too bad i use sudo apt-get dist-upgrade!

Not very diplomatic (2)

johnsie (1158363) | about 8 months ago | (#45458673)

The guy is obviously lacking in basic social skills. Sadly the Ubuntu developers and forum admins are alienating themselves rather than doing anything useful for Linux.

Re:Not very diplomatic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458807)

The lack of capital letters in his post also adds to the amateurish appearance.

Re:Not very diplomatic (2, Insightful)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 8 months ago | (#45458861)

Where on its websites and -pages does Ubuntu ever mention the word Linux?

Re:Not very diplomatic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458939)

Where on its websites and -pages does Ubuntu ever mention the word Linux?

No where, if you exclude lists, wiki and irclogs. [google.com]

banksters (0)

slick7 (1703596) | about 8 months ago | (#45458683)

Internet banking is convenient, too convenient. If you believe you are safe, think again. The banksters have your money, they can do what they like and you have no recourse other than taking back your money. Take it out now, before the run.

Re:banksters (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 8 months ago | (#45458765)

worry more about using 'secure' https in your company.

more often than not, there will be a corp firewall there and you can bet that if you didn not build your entire software system yourself (ie, install your own distro from scratch and solely control its root pw) that you have a bogus cert or two installed and you'll get MitM'd.

windows, macOS, linux - does not matter. if you go thru a corp router, you are probably not secure.

Re:banksters (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458799)

Internet banking is convenient, too convenient. If you believe you are safe, think again. The banksters have your money, they can do what they like and you have no recourse other than taking back your money. Take it out now, before the run.

*deep, annoyed sigh* Yeah, yeah, and in five hundred years when society really does crumble, you'll be bragging about how you knew it all along, right?

Re:banksters - CORRECTION (1)

patiodragon (920102) | about 8 months ago | (#45458915)

The banksters have AT LEAST ten times your money. It's the law and they are doing God's work, so don't ask questions.

Re:banksters (2)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 8 months ago | (#45459089)

If you believe you are safe, think again.

Oh, it gets worse than that... much, much worse... [microsoft.com]

Missing context (5, Informative)

Fwipp (1473271) | about 8 months ago | (#45458697)

TFS makes it sounds like it's a long article about how Linux Mint is insecure.

Here's the entirety of his commentary:

Do you think that Linux Mint is a vulnerable system ? Really ?

https://github.com/linuxmint/mintupdate/blob/master/usr/lib/linuxmint/mintUpdate/rules [github.com]

this is the list of packages it will never update, instead of just
integrating changes properly with the packagaes in the ubuntu archive
they instead suppress doing (security) updates at all for them.

i would say forcefully keeping a vulnerable kernel browser or xorg in
place instead of allowing the provided security updates to be installer
makes it a vulnerable system, yes

i personally wouldn't do online banking with it ;)

ciao
        oli

Re:Missing context (4, Insightful)

ttucker (2884057) | about 8 months ago | (#45458811)

It is a pretty fucking good point too, that list of rules contains update exclusions that certainly would affect security.

Re:Missing context (0)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 8 months ago | (#45458901)

Nice try -- but aren't you yourself leaving out some context...?

If I want to bank online, goto krebsonsecurity.com (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458911)

And no, if major components aren't updated, then security is very temporary.

Missing context (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459027)

Parent makes it sound like this is some hard blacklist.
Now guess what the 3rd and 5th fields in each row are for.

Re:Missing context (1)

Pichu0102 (916292) | about 8 months ago | (#45459621)

Am I reading that file incorrectly, or does it list Flash as a package to never update?

Re:Missing context (1)

rsmith-mac (639075) | about 8 months ago | (#45459629)

If you're reading it incorrectly, then both of us are. That's how I read it too.

Re:Missing context (2)

Rob Simpson (533360) | about 8 months ago | (#45460071)

You are both reading it incorrectly - or rather, the context needed to read it is missing. The number refers to the "safety level" of the update:

1 - from Linux Mint developers
2 - tested to be safe
3 - untested but probably safe
4 - untested and may cause problems
5 - known to cause problems with some hardware

The flash package is 2, that is, tested and shown to not cause any problems. Levels 1 to 3 are automatically selected to be installed when updating.

what? (3, Funny)

MickyTheIdiot (1032226) | about 8 months ago | (#45458701)

The makers of Zeitgeist are concerned about privacy??

This is why... (5, Insightful)

sgage (109086) | about 8 months ago | (#45458717)

... I don't want anything more to do with Canonical, or Ubuntu, or Mint, or any of that lot. I'm sticking with Debian. I'm sure it has its problems and all, but at least the politics seem to remain mostly internal. These public pissing matches between distros just seem so counter-productive. But since I've been using Linux (1998), it seems to be a constant. Ego issues? I don't know. I don't particularly care. It's just so boring and off-putting.

Re:This is why... (4, Insightful)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#45458825)

I personally am seeing BSDs as an increasingly interesting choice.

Re:This is why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459207)

I personally am seeing BSDs as an increasingly interesting choice.

What it lacks in support for noobs it gains in stability and security over Linux. And as a bonus, there is no fanatical fan base driving its development and adoption. ;-)

Re:This is why... (3, Insightful)

c0d3g33k (102699) | about 8 months ago | (#45458983)

With all due respect, working on Linux distributions is, for the most part, a thankless job. People certainly aren't doing it for the money - they are doing it because they passionately care about what they are doing. Aaaand ... passionate people sometimes react before they think, sometimes they are misinformed, because they are crazy busy doing their best to provide quality software to you for nothing. Because they care enough to do what they are doing when few others do. And they do it all in public for all to see ... and are judged for it, quite often by those who don't participate or understand. I'd ask you to take that into account before you dismiss passionate outbursts as "pissing matches" with a wave of the hand - you're just getting a glimpse into "how the sausage is made". Get over it. That's how humans operate. The beauty of the FL/OSS ecosystem is that you don't have to listen to the discussions that create your software for you - just use what you like based on its technical merits. Maybe if you feel gratitude for the gift you've been given you might even say "thank you" now and then. But if you're making your technical decisions based solely on what you misperceive as "politics", you are doing it wrong.

Re:This is why... (1)

sgage (109086) | about 8 months ago | (#45459153)

With all due respect, I understand what you've said. When I employed the term 'politics' I was using it in the broadest possible sense, over the many years I've been using Linux.

I don't care about any of the bickering that goes on, until it becomes public and makes an ass out of all involved. I understand how humans operate, and how the sausage is made.

But kindly don't be telling me to "get over it". FL/OSS is about a lot more than just basing one's decisions on technical merit alone. There's trying to have an understand of trends and reliability and this kind of bullshit is really not useful.

Re:This is why... (1)

c0d3g33k (102699) | about 8 months ago | (#45459269)

Fair enough. Been using Linux for many years myself. But part of the FL/OSS model is to do things in public, because that's considered superior to face-saving-do-it-all-in-secret approach that hides all the actual work behind a veneer of congeniality. So don't 'get over it'.

Re:This is why... (2, Insightful)

Iskender (1040286) | about 8 months ago | (#45459265)

because they are crazy busy doing their best to provide quality software to you for nothing.

Uhh, the guy flaming in this case is working for Ubuntu. I don't know this, but I'd bet he's *employed* by Ubuntu.

Meaning, he probably has even fewer excuses.

And if making distros is a thankless job, maybe he should have some respect for others doing it? The guy behaved badly, end of story.

Re:This is why... (2, Insightful)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | about 8 months ago | (#45459023)

This doesn't sound like a pissing match so much as an Ubuntu guy being an ass and a corresponding Mint guy rolling his eyes. The urine is flowing one way.

Re:This is why... (1)

riis138 (3020505) | about 8 months ago | (#45459029)

Fedora works for me as well. It does everything I need it to do, plays well with my Windows boxes, and you rarely hear anything negative about it.

Re:This is why... (4, Interesting)

sensei moreh (868829) | about 8 months ago | (#45459567)

Fedora, Mint, Ubuntu. I run all three. Mint for Cinnamon, the other two (with LXDE desktops) because sometimes one just works better than the other. Pissing matches are those who've been drinking too much beer.

Re: This is why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459045)

I agree, somewhat. 98 was the year I also turned to Linux. But today I've not come across a distro I like. Debian does OK but hopeless on the desktop and I sometimes wonder if its an Ubuntu conspiracy.

Pot and kettle (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458749)

Why would you want to use a different distro where you don't know what could happen to your personal info;Here at Canonical we build the selling of your private info right into the menu!

Re:Pot and kettle (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459343)

Since 99.9% of Linux users have never once looked at what's in the kernel, I seriously doubt anyone should be complaining about it.

You are all accepting it based on faith, just like any religion.

+1 Article Troll (3, Informative)

ADRA (37398) | about 8 months ago | (#45458769)

And nothing of value was lost.

Re:+1 Article Troll (5, Informative)

squisher (212661) | about 8 months ago | (#45458803)

While the article may not have very diplomatic wording, the essence is true: I installed Linux Mint about a year ago, and liked it. But I had to switch to a different distribution after a couple of months because there were virtually NO updates coming in at all. I'd say that Ubuntu updates like crazy, but no updates at all in several months makes it very likely that they just don't have enough manpower to provide such a service. And that does make your distribution vulnerable. My experience may be outdated, but I'd bet it's still the same given this article...

Re:+1 Article Troll (3, Informative)

boristhespider (1678416) | about 8 months ago | (#45458851)

I don't use Mint anymore myself - chiefly because my normal laptop died and Fedora plays more happily with Macbook's twisted form of EFI, and also partly because I spent so long administering Red Hat and then Fedora Core boxes that Fedora comes more naturally to me - but my anecdotal evidence is different. I didn't see Mint updating slowly at all. I can't say I paid much attention to kernel updates, but other patches came through as regularly as on any other distribution.

For constant kernel updates and the attendent fun wondering if *this* is the update that will break your wifi or graphics support, nothing beats Fedora.

Disclaimer for those taking Slashdot a bit too seriously: Fedora's constant kernel updates have only twice broken my wifi or graphics support, and that's chiefly because of a small latency in the drivers being updated that I wouldn't have noticed had I just waited about twenty minutes. It is irritating plugging the damn machine into the router again (they live in different rooms, and I'm no fan of trailing metre after metre of cable around), but that's the price you pay for updating without thinking.

Re:+1 Article Troll (2)

bmo (77928) | about 8 months ago | (#45458985)

Fedora's constant kernel updates ... It is irritating plugging the damn machine into the router again (they live in different rooms, and I'm no fan of trailing metre after metre of cable around), but that's the price you pay for updating without thinking.

And this is why you keep at least one old kernel in Grub to boot from. I've never had a kernel kill wireless (Atheros FTW) but I've had kernels I didn't like that had regressions elsewhere.

--
BMO

Re:+1 Article Troll (1)

boristhespider (1678416) | about 8 months ago | (#45459103)

Actually these days I've got about six of them. Twice bitten, thrice shy...

Re:+1 Article Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459271)

I don't mean to get you down or pick on you, but I just don't understand users like you. MacBooks run OS X, which is DarwinOS which is BSD, which achieved its Single UNIX Specification by 10.5... if you don't like the interface, you can run any interface you like. What is the point of spending the extra money just so you can use it like its a cheap commodity laptop? Its very strange behavior. I don't mean to mock you or show you disrespect, but the differences between the UNIXes are nominal, Linux is like a customized BSD with all the bells and whistles and colors and lights actived... one is as good or as bad as the other. I don't see what you gain other than support headaches and a smaller bank account.

Re:+1 Article Troll (1, Interesting)

boristhespider (1678416) | about 8 months ago | (#45459411)

The Macbook Pro was provided by work. Since I had it more than three years it passed into my ownership. I tend to develop in Fortran, and the tools available in OSX for Fortran development range between the piss poor and the non-existent, whereas Fortran development tools in Linux are at least capable. (On a decent enough machine, Code::Blocks with the IDE for Fortran [darmar.vgtu.lt] plug-in is a pretty decent IDE for Fortran development - better than others I've found. For some reason I just don't get on with Eclipse and Photran.) As a result, I put Fedora onto my Macbook so that I can develop natively.

Just different tools for different jobs, really. My Windows desktop has Windows and Fedora on it, my Macbook has OSX and Fedora. Depending what I'm doing I'll stick in Windows or OSX, or I'll reboot into Linux, which I chiefly use as a development environment I've got total control over. The crappy old laptop I've got has Lubuntu. I spend most of my time in OSX and still do a fair bit of my development in it (Aquamacs, out of preference) because I prefer its interface to the alternatives, which don't run as well on the hardware.

(Also, to be pedantic, Darwin isn't BSD but rather a weird kind of Frankenstein between true Mach, which is a microkernel, and BSD, along with what started as much of the FreeBSD userland. Ultimately it's easy to compile up most command-line tools on - even easier if you use MacPorts or Fink - but less easy to compile most graphical interfaces without a bit more effort, and then running through Xquartz etc.)

Re:+1 Article Troll (1)

TheGratefulNet (143330) | about 8 months ago | (#45459485)

fortran, really?

fortran is an algol-like language (well, sort of). why not use C, at least? I'm seriously curious.

I have not touched fortran for over 30 yrs. I'm amazed there is even 1 person still using it!

Re:+1 Article Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459973)

and the tools available in OSX for Fortran development range between the piss poor and the non-existent,

Also, to be pedantic, Darwin isn't BSD but rather a weird kind of Frankenstein between true Mach, which is a microkernel, and BSD, along with what started as much of the FreeBSD userland. Ultimately it's easy to compile up most command-line tools on - even easier if you use MacPorts or Fink - but less easy to compile most graphical interfaces without a bit more effort, and then running through Xquartz etc.)

Well, your explanation does make a little sense. But by what you're explained you are already aware that tools for Fortran development include what is available for FreeBSD (which must be as good as for Linux as it is likely the origin of the Linux tools) and can be built for OS X with little effort. What it comes down to is what you prefer, and I should shut the fuck up. But I sure hope you gave OS X a fair shake before moving on, only because it is highly refined and the best BSD desktop ever (yeah yeah, you and your explanation of how it isn't BSD don't really fly... having Mach as a kernel doesn't effect the usage as much as you'd like to believe... Mach does the same stuff in a different manner).

Re:+1 Article Troll (5, Informative)

wile_e8 (958263) | about 8 months ago | (#45458943)

Read the statement from Clem in the summary. Linux Mint updates just as fast as Ubuntu on most things, but has certain updates that could potentially crash otherwise stable machines disabled as a default. If you are really concerned about these to avoid vulnerability, they are easy to enable. Nothing about Linux Mint updates are slow after you enable them.

Re:+1 Article Troll (5, Insightful)

exomondo (1725132) | about 8 months ago | (#45459041)

The problem is these are labeled Unsafe Packages and Dangerous Packages, now with those descriptions what user is going to say "yes I want those"? It states that these can affect stability, which is true, but leaves out that they could be critical security patches, which is also true.

The real beneficial fix to end users here would be to state the whole truth about these updates.

Re:+1 Article Troll (2)

jedidiah (1196) | about 8 months ago | (#45460003)

Except from the point of view of system stability and change control, Mint polices are actually the ones that make sense. Dicking around with the kernel or Xorg SHOULD be treated like it's dangerous and that terminology should be exposed to the "poor frightened" end users.

"Crucial to Linux components working with one another. Do not install unless you are experiencing a problem which you believe the upgrade will solve"

Sounds sensible actually.

Re:+1 Article Troll (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459501)

I've been using LM since about a year ago, and check Synaptic a couple of times a week, and very often find something new there. Kernel updates show up so often, I sometimes skip a whole number. LM ships with Synaptic.

Just the other day, decided to see if I could break LM 13 KDE by adding a couple of repositories and upgrading to kernel 3.11 and KDE 4.11. So much fun it took me a day to get back to XFCE.

Re:+1 Article Troll (1)

Riddler Sensei (979333) | about 8 months ago | (#45460043)

My experience may be outdated...

I see what you did there.

Banking hijack (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458775)

From the article title, I thought it was going to be about how Mint figured a way to hijack your online banking like they do with their crappy Google search hijack. It seems every time I figure out where they've crammed in more of their over-the-top branding, something else pops up. I guess I shouldn't complain too much, I've learned a lot this way. How would I have known how the fortune program was configured until I had to figure out how to get rid of all those annoying Husse fortunes.

Updates (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458801)

Delete the preferences file in /etc/apt. Simple solution.

Talk about fud and flat out lies. (1)

nitehawk214 (222219) | about 8 months ago | (#45458827)

So everything that is a derivative of something else is vulnerable?

Isn't Ubuntu a derivative of Debian?

Well duh... (1)

101percent (589072) | about 8 months ago | (#45458829)

Everyone who knows anything about security and follows linux distros, of which mint is popular enough for it not to slip under the radar; these people should know mint doesn't have security advisories nor mailing lists nor a security "team" such as it's grandparent distro. What is canonical thinking? They must like stirring the shit up. What do they have to gain from doing this? They're already on everyone's shitlist.

He's just mad. (3, Insightful)

imunfair (877689) | about 8 months ago | (#45458831)

It's not surprising he'd try to bash Mint, considering they ate part of Ubuntu's marketshare when Ubuntu made stupid design decisions. That's what happens when you try to cram weird GUI changes down peoples throats in open source.

Don't move my Close, Minimize, and Maximize buttons to the left side by default unless you're going provide some spectacular improvements in return. I tried using it that way for a couple days and was still reflexively clicking on the empty right side to close the window. Eventually I found a config mod that fixed it, but then they went to the stupid Ubuntu mobile desktop and I couldn't be assed to work around it any longer so I switched.

It's worth mentioning that if you don't like Ubuntu repos, Mint also has a version based directly on Debian.

Re:He's just mad. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458965)

That's EXACTLY the reason I switched to Mint. I really did want to like Ubuntu, gave it a try, and then another try, and then yet another try, and everytime it just became more and more frustrating to use. Mint was mostly frustration free from day one.

Re:He's just mad. (1)

bmo (77928) | about 8 months ago | (#45459037)

>buttons

Close on left
Minimize and Maximize on right. As God and IBM intended.

It's the first thing I change in KDE and every other environment if I can (if the devs don't remove the friggin' option).

You'll never fat-finger the Close button again.

--
BMO

Re:He's just mad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459183)

Yup, Canonicals cannons running scared, blaming the people's free choice to move away fron Ubuntu on whoever would have been that choice. In this case, Mint (which is brilliant). I susppect Mint started offering the Debian version just in case Canonical lost their bladder like this in public. Unity sucks, Gnome 3 doubly so. And several other mishaps and user ignorings - the writing is pretty much on the wall for the Zurgitating Zebra factory.

Re:He's just mad. (2)

Mashdar (876825) | about 8 months ago | (#45459509)

My favorite was that the Unity bar was smack in the middle of my two monitors regardless of which monitor was the primary. Good thing they didn't want to let anyone move the damned thing.

Ubuntu is noticing Linux Mint (1, Insightful)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 8 months ago | (#45458843)

Good!
May they suffer.

Re:Ubuntu is noticing Linux Mint (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459443)

Waaaaaahmbulance!

This distro maker didn't behave the way *I* wanted them to! Nevermind I will likely never contribute anything back to them! THEY SHOULD PROVIDE WHAT *I* WANT FOR FREE BECAUSE IT IS FREE SOFTWARE!

Somewhat FUD apparently (3, Informative)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#45458853)

I found this interesting Google+ post [google.com] from the Muktware article comments.

Hurd what I tell my clients? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458905)

I tell them to use GNU Hurd. It can't actually visit your bank's site, so there's no risk. Plus I think any applications that actually do run, are in userland, and hence are pretty slow. As a result, my clients spend less time on their computer, and more time wheeling and dealing.

Full Context, Direct Posts, Nothing to see here. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45458925)

Linux Mint creator's take:
http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2013/11/answering-controversy-stability-vs-security-is-something-you-configure/
Summary: Nothing to see here; Let's move on.

Another person on the same thread:
http://benjaminkerensa.com/2013/11/18/linux-mint-stay-calm-make-free-software
Summary: Nothing to see here; Let's move on. Oh, Mate is cool.

The quoted developer:
http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/lots-of-canonical-in-my-mouth/
Summary: Nothing to see here; the Press sucks, let's move on. Oh, Mate is cool.

In other words... (1)

vincentj7 (842874) | about 8 months ago | (#45458927)

Don't use Mint [mint.com] on Mint [linuxmint.com] .

Here's an article to spite Ubuntu (1)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 8 months ago | (#45458959)

(Ubuntu, which never ever mentions the word Linux on its websites and webpages)

482 of the Top500 supercomputers run Linux, and China’s Tianhe-2 is the fastest
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2013/11/18/482-of-the-top500-supercomputers-run-linux-and-chinas-tianhe-2-is-the-fastest/ [linuxbsdos.com]

Enjoy!

More evidence (1, Interesting)

riis138 (3020505) | about 8 months ago | (#45459009)

This is just another piece of evidence that confirms my suspicions. Canonical has been threatened by the Mint project for years now. This is not the first interview that has come out with an Ubuntu dev speaking ill of Mint, and I'm sure it wont be the last.

Re:More evidence (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459095)

There were no interview, you dolt. There was this comment [ubuntu.com] and a journalist spinning it in a full-fledged clickbait.

And now /. spins it further in an anti-Ubuntu FUD. Keep it classy!

Canonical Failed? (4, Interesting)

enter to exit (1049190) | about 8 months ago | (#45459085)

Ubuntu is in a rut. They're not making money, growth is plateauing, it's mindshare is diminishing. It's questionable if they'll ever make a profit. I mean why Ubuntu over Novell, Oracle or RedHat for enterprise stuff? RedHat is a billion dollar publicly listed company..Novell is owned by attachemate group (a billion dollar revenue company) and Oracle poops money.

The Ubuntu Edge was a hail Mary pass that failed. They lack the revenue (and wherewithal) to get into hardware and no hardware maker wants to partner with them.

I have to wonder, when will shuttleworth stop? Would it be extreme to say Canonical is a failed company? At what point is Ubuntu going to transition into a community driven OS? Ubuntu TV is vapourware, their phone OS relies on someone willing flashing their nexus..They've totally fucked their Desktop OS and it's unclear why anyone would select them for enterprise support considering the breadth of their competition.

Re:Canonical Failed? (3, Insightful)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 8 months ago | (#45459181)

At what point is Ubuntu going to transition into a community driven OS?

I'd say it already is transitioning to a community-driven setup, called "Mint". One of the key things that makes the open-source world different from the commercial world is that when an organization starts getting stupid and greedy, someone forks the project, and if they do a better job the user-base just switches to the new project and loses nothing of any great value.

Uh, in English please? Or: mmm, foreign copy-pasta (1)

wonkey_monkey (2592601) | about 8 months ago | (#45459131)

Ubuntu developer Oliver Grawert does not prefer to do online banking with Linux Mint.

"prefers not" would be a less ambiguous way of putting it. But hey, you just copy-pasted the whole thing, it's not like Slashdot expect to you to write summaries in your own words. Oh wait, they totally do [slashdot.org] .

One of the Ubuntu developers, Oliver Grawert, originally pointed out that it is not necessary that security updates from Ubuntu get down to Linux Mint users since changes from X.Org, the kernel, Firefox, the boot-loader, and other core components are blocked from being automatically upgraded.

Err, what? I honestly can't be sure what this means. First, Grawert was already introduced in a previous line of the summary/article. Doing so again is just confusing, but even more so is that it's impossible to tell whether this second sentence, containing as it does the word "originally," is meant to agree or disagree with the idea that Mint is vulnerable.

End of the world? (5, Insightful)

dshk (838175) | about 8 months ago | (#45459163)

We are talking about a short, almost personal comment on the developer's mailing list of Ubuntu:

i personally wouldn't do online banking with it ;)

Compare this with the Slashdot article title:

Canonical Developer Warns About Banking With Linux Mint

Whether he is technically right, or not, I find it disgusting that such a side note becomes news on Slashdot.

By the way, the subject was another new distribution based on Ubuntu, similar to Mint, therefore the Ubuntu developer actually encouraged an Ubuntu derivative.

Linux politics (0)

readacc (3401189) | about 8 months ago | (#45459395)

I came to Linux because I thought we'd be over this stupid, overblown shit that's really nothing to be concerned about. But it appears you can't have peace anywhere on the net without fan-boys using anything scrap of info as an excuse to ruin things.

I came to Linux at a time when people just wanted to use a quality system and assist each other with learning how to use it effectively and work to improve it. Now that's becomes "mainstream" the community has turned to shit. I suppose the Linux community has always had its fair share of BS politics, but it's too easy to make them front-page news now to the point where it makes us look like a bunch of kids, amateurs no better than the bickering idiots in other fields.

Oliver Grawert's answers to the blame (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459441)

See what the Canonical developer has to say to the blame himself at http://ograblog.wordpress.com/2013/11/18/lots-of-canonical-in-my-mouth/ or https://plus.google.com/+OliverGrawert/posts/Ayf2Gy3TpJP

Ubuntu CDs Make Good Coasters and Frisbees (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459491)

"Ubuntu developer Oliver Grawert"

Well I don't want to do banking with you, either. Nor do I want spyware in my distribution.

Statement from the Ubuntu developer ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459499)

https://plus.google.com/+OliverGrawert/posts/Ayf2Gy3TpJP

I feel the same way... (3, Insightful)

Lumpy (12016) | about 8 months ago | (#45459655)

I warn people away from Ubuntu and towards Debian or another reputable distro that is not selling your info and loading your os with AD's and spyware. Yes if you are sending info for targeted ad's you are bundling SPYWARE.

Ubuntu has tainted the water. It's not a safe OS.

Yes you should only bank on Ubuntu (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 8 months ago | (#45459727)

Where Amazon can watch you and tailor ad's based on your balance

Mint runs xhost + (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45459971)

Mint has no security. They intentionally run with access control disabled on the X server (xhost +). Keyloggers and screen scrapers are trivial in this case. Bugs have been filed about this, but Mint considers it working as designed.

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