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Ask Slashdot: MMORPG Recommendations?

Soulskill posted about 9 months ago | from the progress-quest-still-going-strong dept.

Role Playing (Games) 555

An anonymous reader writes "Lord of the Rings: Online's latest expansion, Helm's Deep, involved cutting many skills for all classes, with a only a handful reclaimable through the new, 1-dimensional trait trees. If you're not an end-game raider, you're out of luck. And if you are, you can now play your character perfectly with only one or two buttons. Like many who preordered the expansion, I feel robbed and I'm joining the mass exodus. What do you folks suggest? How do Guild Wars 2, RIFT, World of Warcraft and all the other MMORPGs stack up these days? What else would you recommend looking at?"

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I recommend non - MMO (4, Insightful)

aepervius (535155) | about 9 months ago | (#45494923)

really, nowadays I play a bit MMO around until mid level, then give up. They become repetitive and raiding is only a slightly less rewarding skinner box.

Re:I recommend non - MMO (3, Interesting)

twocows (1216842) | about 9 months ago | (#45494979)

I dunno, MMOs are still fun to me. I like getting together with a dozen two dozen people and organizing and planning, and then trying to execute those often pretty complex plans. That's where the joy of raiding has always been for me. If they could just distill this and make it into the main portion of a game, I'd probably be down for that.

Re:I recommend non - MMO (4, Funny)

MightyYar (622222) | about 9 months ago | (#45495009)

Repetition is good. My favorite repetitive MMOs are Candy Crush, or anything by Zinga. :p

Re:I recommend non - MMO (2)

mwvdlee (775178) | about 9 months ago | (#45495127)

Those are more like Small Single-player Online, or SSO, games; all of the grinding with none of the content and none of the other players.

Re:I recommend non - MMO (5, Funny)

MightyYar (622222) | about 9 months ago | (#45495177)

But... but... I invite my friends and get more lives! ;p

Re:I recommend non - MMO (4, Insightful)

interkin3tic (1469267) | about 9 months ago | (#45495015)

OP obviously enjoys MMORPGs, and is asking for suggestions, and your suggestion is that he shouldn't actually enjoy MMORPGs?

Did you see that no one else had posted yet and absolutely needed to fill the void?

Re:I recommend non - RPG (4, Informative)

rwa2 (4391) | about 9 months ago | (#45495369)

Well, I'm kinda addicted to http://worldoftanks.com/ [worldoftanks.com] at the moment.

Sure, it gets repetitive after "figuring it out", but it actually has pretty varied gameplay, and each battle lasts 15-minutes max.

I like it because it's not much of a stats or twitch game.... yes stats and twitch helps, but a lot of your success often hinges on finding a good rock (or teammate) to hide behind and playing the camouflage system. Still, it's a pretty detailed physics engine, so you can still score the occasional blind shot if you know what you're doing (and you're lucky with the RNG, but mostly by knowing where to aim).

I hate RPG-type battles like in EVE where you're basically playing rock-paper-scissors with dice... Vendetta Online is much more interesting where you can use physics and cover and stuff rather than just banging out options into the interface like you're playing DDR.

WoT is free-to-play, but there's not really anything worth paying money for that you couldn't get by grinding (via successful gameplay, not "menial repetitive tasks"). I only spend a small amount of gold to carry over expensive modules when upgrading tanks, and you can score enough gold for free by doing tutorials and various other things.

Bonus for actually learning things about physics, WWII-era tanks (which all looked the same to me before), various historical artifacts, etc. so I'd even call it mildly more educational than your typical fantasy clickfest.

Re:I recommend non - MMO (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495325)

This. The entire MMO genre was created for one purpose and one purpose only: To generate lots of money for the least amount of effort to date (at the time that it was created).

WoW (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45494929)

From the submission:
I'll echo that partially. It's worth trying it, at least. The game's free to play until level 20 with some limitations and you can get a week free if someone recruits you (or if you wait til the expansion you can apply for a free week, and yes if you get both at the same time they stack). You could probably turn off leveling at 19 and participate in twink battlegrounds if you feel the urge to get pummeled by people who have spent countless hours perfecting their gear with stuff you can't get. That said, a lot of stuff is pretty lame. Raid Finder is a good idea but it kind of stinks in reality. And the world doesn't feel nearly as... harsh as it used to. You don't feel like an adventurer anymore, you feel like your own personal little god that can kill everything around you unless it's another player. That's not nearly as fun.

This was in response to this. [slashdot.org]

Recommendation (0, Offtopic)

grub (11606) | about 9 months ago | (#45494931)


Read a book. Go out with some friends. Meet your neighbours.

Re:Recommendation (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495043)

Read a book. Go out with some friends. Meet your neighbours.

-1 Offtopic

A typical Ask Slashdot response. Moderately hostile, and completely useless.

Re:Recommendation (1, Insightful)

s.petry (762400) | about 9 months ago | (#45495417)

Useless and hostile? Seems like very sound advice. Sporting events, concerts, comedy clubs, a neighborhood game of hearts or spades. Those things may not make a video game company lots of money but still entertainment that many can be involved in.

Re:Recommendation (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495327)

I've done all those things and they're overrated.

TES Online... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45494945)

comes out *relatively* (FY2014 projected release) soon.
Wide spread Beta invites this weekend. Wait for that. IMO

Not sure how it stacks up. (2)

Korielus (3441269) | about 9 months ago | (#45494947)

I have just started Tera Rising, so far it seems fine and I like the combat system but it does seem tailored towards grinding although it does have the advantage that its free to play.

As a LOTRO player (1)

east coast (590680) | about 9 months ago | (#45494953)

I have solo'd up to level 57 and only used 4 buttons. It seems that a lot of the skills they gave my toon are so limited in scope that they're not worth fussing over. Would I move up the ladder a bit faster if I worked the math and got serious? Probably but so far I don't feel too bad about it all.

Re:As a LOTRO player (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495189)

As another LotRO player, I don't have a suggestion of where to go, but I'll just thank whoever wrote in the Ask Slashdot that he's leaving. While I like the benefits that have come with Turbine making their MMOs free to play (mostly), I am getting really, really sick of all the whining about everything.

"There are too many useless skills!!!"
"Where did all my skills go???!!!"
"Crafting is underpowered!!!"
"Crafting is overpowered!!!"
"How I mine for fish?!"

I was in since the pre-order beta. The expansions came with new mechanics just to set them apart from the content before. In all honesty, 2/3rd of those mechanics were worthless skill-cruft that only mattered in those specific dungeons as yet another level-lock or useless gear-cruft for the same reason.
The old class-trait system was clumsy and awkward, almost as bad as the old legendary-traits. I'm guessing that question-poster wasn't around back when legendary trait books required very specific enemies. It was a royal pain to learn one of the Loremaster legendaries because the pages rarely (and only) dropped from elite-or-bigger spiders in the forested corner of nowhere.

Re:As a LOTRO player (5, Funny)

bob_super (3391281) | about 9 months ago | (#45495397)

Amateur!
I solo'd up to the last level with just one button. Picked up some sweet 'shroom upgrades on the way, that Bowser guy didn't even stand a chance!

Re:As a LOTRO player (5, Interesting)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 9 months ago | (#45495439)

I think the skill revamp is a big change, but it's not the disaster people claim. Many other MMOs have even simpler play styles. People are really using the skill revamps as the excuse they were looking for to justify their pre-planned departure.

The real problem is that the game has gotten simple anyway and the developers are making leveling up be faster and combat simpler. The sooner you get to end game the sooner you feel compelled to spend money on an expansion. It is true we used to have a large variety of skills, even before the first expansion you could argue that some classes were overloaded, but there was more grouping involved from just getting together to defeat a tough opponent on the landscape up to doing a full raid. Later it was simplified so that casual grouping was never needed, as that would slow people down on their accelerated leveling schedule. If you only solo then you really don't need many skills, but this applies to all MMOs.

Part of the problem is with players too. They really don't want to do quests on the landscape as much, they don't want to explore, they're not doing any of the single player RPG style of play at all. Instead they want to get to end game fast. They'll feel powerful if they kill things with one shot while leveling but then at high levels that same play style makes them wonder why it's easy. Most new players focus intently on making a high damage build, choosing high damage classes as main preference, others will discourage new players from trying harder or more nuanced classes, etc. So don't blame just the devs, also blame players who want to turn the game into yet another generic MMO.

And for those players who left last year for the glorious offerings of new games, I've seen quite a chunk of them returning later saying how another game was even worse or that they couldn't stand the other players and so on. There's good stuff in this expansion: the epic quests are very good again compared to the last few updates, the landscape looks great, etc. Sure not as many raids but this was never a raid heavy game.

As for the original poster: you were NOT robbed. Every game out there changes mechanics along the way, this was just a bit larger than some. But it is in no ways similar to the massive change of NGE that some compare it too. And pre-ordering is always a bad idea for any game or product. It's just dumb. Always know what it is before you buy. And since there's not sub required, you can still keep playing. The game is not the pay-to-win so many claim when you compare it to other games; you can get everything for a much smaller cost than a traditional subscription game (being forced to subscribe to play is the very definition of pay-to-win).

Finally. Please, if you're going to leave a game then just leave. Don't stick around bad mouthing it. Don't go onto all the forums to bad mouth it. Don't go onto slashdot to whine about it. JUST LEAVE! This is not a popularity contest where you're required to drag others away with you when you leave. Getting bored and leaving because of that is natural; it's an old game so it is normal for people to leave. Just don't try to drag it down when you do go.

I left them all behind for Minecraft (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45494955)

Being able to put my own stamp on the world ranks so highly in importance for me that I'm staying out of the fray until EQNext comes out.

Re:I left them all behind for Minecraft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495093)

I have to say that I too have done this. I get more fun out of Minecraft than I have from any other MMO I've played ( Ragnarok Online, FF XI, EVE, WoW, Guild Wars 1 & 2, LOTRO, RIFT & a few others ).

I have a few friends that play on a small server and we regularly do full world resets ( about every 3-4 months ) to keep things fresh.

Re:I left them all behind for Minecraft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495221)

While I thoroughly enjoyed Minecraft, I have to say that the lack of established goals makes it boring to me. There are achievements, which are easy to, uh, achieve, but after that that isn't really any reason to play. It's too unstructured for my tastes. To each their own.

Re:I left them all behind for Minecraft (1)

BobSwi (607571) | about 9 months ago | (#45495329)

Try CubeWorld or Trion's new Trove perhaps?

Re:I left them all behind for Minecraft (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495427)

Coming up with my own goals is what I truly love about it, they can be as short-term or long-term as I wish. I found, when left to my own designs, my long-term goals will get more and more intricate. My first big project was a fully-functional, multi-line subway system spanning lord only knows how many square miles. Ever since the ceiling cap was raised I've been able to continue work on my 1:1 scale Great Pyramid of Giza, chambers and all.

But you're right, to each their own. Sometimes it feels Minecraft is geared towards the gluttons for punishment.

Re:I left them all behind for Minecraft (1)

Sally Bowls (2952007) | about 9 months ago | (#45495295)

No judgement, just curious why are you not going to play Everquest Landmark?

Re:I left them all behind for Minecraft (4, Informative)

Quince alPillan (677281) | about 9 months ago | (#45495373)

I'll agree with the AC. Minecraft with friends has been a lot more fun than the stress of end-game raid night and there are enough creepers, endermen, and lava to keep that thrill of danger going. You can even add mods to make the game more to your flavor of game.

If you're looking only to MMOs, though, my suggestion is to wait a bit. The Elder Scrolls Online [elderscrollsonline.com] is coming out in 2014, as well as Everquest Next [everquestnext.com] and Everquest Next Landmark.

Both games seem promising, with ESO bringing back PVP themes from Dark Age of Camelot in addition to a promised solo focus and EQN/EQNL promising more of a sandbox game with raiding rather than a themepark game like WoW.

Runescape (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45494957)

Runescape is where it's at man!

Re:Runescape (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495119)

I don't know...
I always read that as

Run! Escape!
Get away! AAH!

Go Tabletop (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45494967)

Pathfinder.

The Secret World (4, Interesting)

TyFoN (12980) | about 9 months ago | (#45494977)

Personally I find The Secret World very nice for my wife and me as we play casually. There is new content on a steady basis and lots of outfits that my wife loves.
It's set in a dark contemporary world where the secret societies are comming into the open due to paranormal events.
It's quite a horror style dark mmo :)

We also play minecraft multiplayer on a whitelist server, and my 2.5 year old daugher is starting to take very much interest in watching us feed cows or ride the minecarts :)

Re:The Secret World (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495337)

I second The Secret World. The freedom involved in creating your character is great. Favorite MMO, no question.

One of Them (3, Insightful)

Saethan (2725367) | about 9 months ago | (#45494981)

... seriously. There are so many MMOs now you really expect a single answer from /. that will make up your mind? Go do free trials, read some reviews. Sign up for some betas. I've played probably 20 or so MMOs since I first played Everquest in 1999 and they've all had upsides and downsides.

EVE Online (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45494985)

Did this need an article?

Eve Online (1, Interesting)

ficuscr (1585141) | about 9 months ago | (#45494995)

Only MMORPG I play these days is EVE Online. I enjoy the game and the community behind it and think it stands out from other MMOs.

Re:Eve Online (4, Interesting)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about 9 months ago | (#45495231)

The best review I ever heard of EvE Online was from a guy who said that he wasn't going to pay $15 a month to be chased down and killed by some teenager with daddy issues in the Battlestar Galactica. Pretty much summed it up for me.

When I tried it out, it seemed like their were basically two modes to the game: either incredible boredom in safe space or getting constantly jumped and butt-raped in unsafe space. I guess there was some appeal in trading (kind of a much less satisfying version of the old trading routes in Elite), but it seemed like all the good routes were owned by the corporations and all that was left for the little guys were the scraps. In the end, it's even less rewarding than mining.

In short, EvE Online reminds me way too much of real life. And that's what I play videogames to avoid.

Re:Eve Online (4, Funny)

roc97007 (608802) | about 9 months ago | (#45495399)

> In short, EvE Online reminds me way too much of real life. And that's what I play videogames to avoid.

I hear you. Same with movies. Wife's choices are inevitably downers. I tell her, if I wanted to be depressed, I'd stay at work.

don't play any (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495011)

Anything is better than a MMO. But if you still wanna play one, WoW is still the 800 pound gorilla. The numbers are going down, but it still has more than all of them combined. It won't die any time soon.

Other than that ... flip a coin.

Eternal lands (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495013)

Eternal lands has a vibrant community, an excellent leveling system, and most of all a free client available for GNU/Linux as well as other platforms.
http://www.eternal-lands.com/

Everquest Next (1)

kauaidiver (779239) | about 9 months ago | (#45495017)

It's not out yet but looks promising. What is missing from WoW, and I'm a long term player, is an element of danger.

I remember playing EQ1 when it first came out, it was sometimes frustrating but kept your heart pounding.

Remember the feeling of being in Lower Guk and thinking I'll never get out of here alive?

Re:Everquest Next (1)

Saethan (2725367) | about 9 months ago | (#45495125)

LGuk was a scary place until the joys of PBAoE. We'd claim everything from Lord to Frenzy with one group(and manage to hold it all)... pissed off a fair number of folks. :D

How about breaking in to PoFear only to have your whole raid wipe... and begging another guild to rescue you before your corpses rotted?

Re:Everquest Next (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495253)

If you're looking to relive that see here : http://www.project1999.org

Re:Everquest Next (1)

east coast (590680) | about 9 months ago | (#45495425)

You know, I was an EQ1 and EQ2 player. Just like LotRO they both had a great feel and look to them. I loved EQ1 but so many people left after EQ2 that it just became depressing to even go on anymore. Even as a solo it was just too barren.

EQ2 started off with a strong game but as soon as the exodus happened when WoW went online so much stuff got dumbed down. It was a shame because it was a great looking game, the zone were big and the play was fun. Today when I see it in a MMORPG I just expect that that's the way everyone went.

Maybe I'll check out EQNext but I still like LotRO to keep playing. I do Free2Play and I have so many Turbine points built up right now that I'll probably never have to pay another nickel again unless they rigged the end game. I'm casual enough about it that I'll probably never reach end game so that might never matter anyhow.

The Repopulation (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495021)

Its not out yet but promises to be a refreshing departure from the standard wow-clone stream of MMOs we get these days,

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495059)

Final Fantasy XIV is currently my MMO of choice. As you have the freewill to spec as any class on the same character, it gives you a great deal of flexibility on how you want to play.

Re:Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495249)

I second that. After the relaunch, the game has matured a LOT into a very good game.

Re:Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495285)

After the relaunch, the game has matured a LOT into a WoW clone with catgirls.

Fixed that for you. There's a reason they were forced to redo the entire game, and it wasn't because the skillbars didn't look enough like WoW! Yes, it now has lots of !s over NPCs and looks more like WoW than ever, now if only that were the reason no one liked it.

MMO lack luster (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495069)

Most MMOs these days are getting to the point of a few button rotations and you end up in the repetitive grind. I am enjoying FFXIV right now but who knows for how long? FFXI had the most amount of play time for me followed by WoW but the new WoW expansions/patches are bland and the talent trees are almost forced to one dimension depending on what you are doing.

EVE (3, Informative)

Doc Hopper (59070) | about 9 months ago | (#45495075)

I just started playing EVE Online in February of this year after a long hiatus from all online gaming. It has a great community, and due to the way skill trees work and the variety of places to play in (hisec, lowsec, nullsec, wormhole) it can be as casual or as hard-core as you want it to be. I enjoy the heck out of wormholes at present!

Not Rift (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495079)

Rift went free to play/pay to win and it was very obvious that their design goal went from "How can we make this awesome enough for a subscription" to "How can a make this just annoying enough that people will be willing to pay to skip half of it".

WoW, ESO (2)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495081)

I'd say WoW, even after all of these years. The Pandaria expansion, despite the corny Pandarian race, is still well done and fun to play, and there is no shortage of people to group with. I let my subscription expire recently though. I played Rift for a while, it is pretty fun, but the game engine performance really sucks which drove me away. SWTOR got boring pretty quickly and also suffers from performance problems. Both of the latter games come across as more somber/serious, which skews the players more male than WoW. I think it is more fun when there are some females around, seems to temper some of the raging.

I'm waiting for Elder Scrolls Online at this point. Can't wait until it comes out.

Mod parent underrated (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495261)

Not sure why this is at -1. It's a perfectly reasonable response. It should at least be 0.

MMO's... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495085)

I'd say pick one that is to your interests right now. For me that's Star Trek Online cause I'm such a big Trekkie that I can overlook a lot of the games flaws just to go out and blast Klingons, Romulans, Borg, and even Federation ships for fun.

World of Warcraft (5, Funny)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about 9 months ago | (#45495105)

It's a lesser known title, but with a very dedicated core of players.

Re:World of Warcraft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495207)

dafaq are you smoking? WoW a little known title?

Re:World of Warcraft (4, Funny)

charlesbakerharris (623282) | about 9 months ago | (#45495401)

WHOooooOOOooooOOOOSH

Re:World of Warcraft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495241)

Seconded. For all the whining about this or that, it is the king of MMORPGs for a reason, and contrary to what people tell you, it is generally improving.

Re:World of Warcraft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495293)

Sorry, but WoW is not improving. They've ruined a great MMO.

Turbine (1)

AlienSexist (686923) | about 9 months ago | (#45495113)

Something is up with Turbine MMOs in general. LotR Online and Dungeons and Dragons Online in particular have been really seen a severe deterioration in game quality update after update. AFAIK there is a major exodus underway from both titles. DDO servers are becoming more and more like ghost towns all the time and it is increasingly difficult to find parties. DDO players, in particular, are really tired of the blatant Pay2Win moneygrab ploys and some I know have ventured over to Path of Exile which, so far, appears to not stink of it. I have no recommendations for the OP, just support of their initial condition.

Yes, Path of Exile (1)

Sowelu (713889) | about 9 months ago | (#45495257)

Sure, it's basically Diablo 2, but with more multiplayer integration and a more fun IMO economy. Free, no pay-to-win, you can solo fine if you really want, and it's HARD if you play as intended instead of hanging back and farming (without being totally unforgiving; no item loss on death, no exp loss until your second playthrough). Which as an ex-WoW player is a super huge god damn plus. I am so sick of constant easymode MMOs.

Re:Turbine (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495323)

Something is up with Turbine MMOs in general. LotR Online and Dungeons and Dragons Online in particular have been really seen a severe deterioration in game quality update after update.

Since they were purchased by Warner Brothers perhaps?

None (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495121)

There's no "MMO" worth your time, unless you enjoy grinding for a boring and generic quest.

Tera has a great combat system, but everything else is just generic.
GuildWars 2 has a nice story, but everything else isn't even worth mentioning.
And the list goes on...
Each MMO have 1 thing they do well and everything else is awful. There's no MMO that has all those good things in a single package, which is very sad.

Re:None (1)

Sowelu (713889) | about 9 months ago | (#45495355)

Yes, well, some people do enjoy grinding for boring and generic quests. Think of it like zoning out in front of a TV, except more interactive and social. If I didn't have good ways to numb my brain once in a while, I'd probably drink a lot more.

Not every player is an addict, it can be nice to just relax without going over the deep end.

EVE Online (1)

SenorPez (840621) | about 9 months ago | (#45495123)

EVE Online. You've got the freedom to play whatever type of game you want, within the bounds of the setting and sandbox. You can play alone when you want to be alone, and play with others when you want to play with others. They just released their latest free expansion, too, so there's a whole host of new toys to play with and blow up.

Re:EVE Online (1)

DarthVain (724186) | about 9 months ago | (#45495407)

EVE is the only one I am considering joining. Did WOW thing for years.

Currently I can't stop playing DOTA2... which isn't an MMO, but it sort of is with the competitive and community part of it.

Likely when I tire of that, I will give EVE a serious go. I had a trial membership, however with the learning curve and busy life, hard to get into it in 14 days.

I only have so many available hours for gaming :(

If you want to keep your setting try this. (1)

stewsters (1406737) | about 9 months ago | (#45495137)

World of Tanks/Warplanes (1)

Binestar (28861) | about 9 months ago | (#45495143)

I've had a lot of luck recently with World of Tanks and World of Warplanes. They're not RPG's, but they are MMO. Not much investment needed for a playing either.

I recently played Neverwinter. I can't recommend it though. The leveling up is very fast (Which isn't necessarily bad on it's own) and when you hit end game there is almost nothing to do. The free to play formula is extremely expensive addons ($20 for a bag) that frankly make it not worth your time.

Other than that, there are literally dozens of free to play MMO's out there right now. Costs nothing to try them, but the time to check them out. I enjoyed RIFT when I played, but stopped before the first expansion, so I have no clue what it is like now.

Re:World of Tanks/Warplanes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495349)

I second World of Tanks. I started playing it with some friends, and once you get the hang of the controls, it's quite fun. Most of the environmental details are things you can blow up/roll over/crush too. You can even shoot down birds if your aim is good enough.

I played Neverwinter during the beta, and while there were some aspects I liked, I didn't care for the interface. Crafting was especially annoying.

I've also been playing World of Warcraft since the beginning of the Lich King expansion, but haven't played lately since my guild stopped raiding (and LFR just isn't the same).

WoW and GW2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495145)

I find this is the biggest problem facing the genre nowadays. There seems to be a push by game designers to make things simpler and easier. Many times this comes across as a reduction in the number of abilities or stats involved in the game mechanics. One of the greatest parts about when I used to play WoW was the theory crafting. Trying to figure out how to increase my performance as a player and my characters performance with what gear I could get or already had. Sometimes different (and very complex) cycles of abilities and combat routines were needed, storing up combo points and keeping debuffs up and rolling. Critical hits and needing to move around during a fight also added some randomness or variety to fighting.

I stopped playing WoW before Cataclysm as I felt it was a good time to quit since I couldn't keep up the time commitment. I also felt it was a stage where they were introducing lots of changes to "simplify" things like combat stats that really rubbed me the wrong way a little bit, though to be fair, I haven't actually experienced the changes so I can't concretely say if they were as bad as I thought they'd be.

I played Guild Wars 2 briefly and I found they had some nice ideas about how to remove some of that "grind" feeling from leveling and questing, as ANYTHING in that game gives you experience. I spent an hour running around a city exploring and my character unexpectedly leveled up because I hadn't realized but I was gaining XP from discovering different sub areas. Also, crafting is kinda fun and addicting, but gives decent experience (at least from what I played in the lower levels). I think the weak point was again not a lot of skills involved in combat, and I felt (personally) that some of the group content was hard to get into, though I didn't have any friends playing with me. The guild system is interesting and kind of cool, with some neat mechanics like contributing for guild wide buffs and things.

Essentially I think that some of the funnest games are also the most complicated. I especially dislike when there is ONE very clear "best" way of doing things (building a character or skill combinations in a fight, etc). I like it best when there are multiple choices with different strengths and weaknesses, and sometimes it will require careful analysis which is better or more suitable for me.

TLDR: I find the games that offer the most complexity tend to be what keep me entertained the most

Re:WoW and GW2 (1)

Lotana (842533) | about 9 months ago | (#45495469)

If you enjoy complexity and not completely burnt out on MMOs yet, take a look at EVE Online. Extremely complex and brutal.

It is not for everyone though: People either love it or severely hate it. Biggest factor is that everything you do is PvP in nature.

Final Fantasy XIV (2)

raculot (1143839) | about 9 months ago | (#45495147)

I'd suggest checking out FF14, actually! I just picked it up a few weeks ago and have been having a blast. Since they redesigned and relaunched it in August, it's actually probably the most fun MMO on the market (at least for me, YMMV)

Find something new (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495151)

Find something new and get in at the beginning. For example, Elder Scrolls Online is just entering Beta. It happens to have a free beta this weekend that's starting in less than 2 hours (6 PM EST).

Good question, they are all crap (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495159)

Don't get me wrong, I've spent the better part of my MMO experience playing WoW, SWToR, Rift.... unfortunately, none of them seem to sate my appetite.

MMO developers are dumbing everything down. When Everquest was big, the game was complicated and challenging. I actually miss that. When Warcraft came out, it seemed like a fine balance between playability, and challenge. Just my two cents, but companies need to stop dumbing the games down, and making them a more advanced playing experience.

I quit WoW before they did the tree updates that just ruined the game, and no... I won't give it a chance because honestly it isn't worth my time. Give us a complicated game. Give me a tree as big as path of exile, a crafting system like Fallen Earth, and the spell system of Everquest. Make crafting more complicated, and allow the rewards to serve the character's level.... not always being behind the curve (you craft an item that's considered "HARD" for your crafting level, and it's for someone 3-5 levels behind you).

Stop making everything Bind on Pickup. This will allow guilds to gear geared for endgame a bit more quicker. Stupidest system ever.

Oh, and stop letting whiny 15 year olds decide the direction of the game and class balancing. Seperate what the classes do, and what they contribute to the group. There needs to be more specific roles other than DPS, Tank, Heal.

Sorry, I'm bitter :P

Stay away from World of Warcraft (1)

runeghost (2509522) | about 9 months ago | (#45495171)

It appears as though you're leaving LotR because it's being dumbed down. Reduction to the lowest common denominator is exactly what's been happening with World of Warcraft for some time, and the newly announced expansion appears to keep the same trend going.

Neverwinter (1)

boundary (1226600) | about 9 months ago | (#45495181)

NW is fun. Give it a spin!

My recommendation: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495199)

Stop playing MMORPGs and do something productive with your time.

Have you tried Everquest 2? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495203)

While Everquest 2 is a older MMORPG it's one that has a huge depth and complexity.

There's good low level content and a reasonable player base (size wise). I have to admit it needs more people, but it's a really solid game and worth a look.

Re:Have you tried Everquest 2? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495233)

Or check out the info on Everquest Landmark and Everquest Next, both are in development.

Everquest Landmark is out end of yearish.

Expansion (1)

h4x0t (1245872) | about 9 months ago | (#45495209)

"... expansion.... cutting many skills for all classes...."

I purchased a lifetime subscription to this game in 2005/6 when it came out.

I left when the great BALROG slayer (not to mention Watcher slayer, Undead Dragon slayer, etc.) was asked to pick up sticks in the first zone of the second expansion.

I'm glad I left when I did.

Elder Scrolls Online (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495215)

ESO is coming out soon--it's already at the public beta stage (or just about to be) I believe. If you enjoyed any of the Elder Scrolls games like Skyrim and Oblivion, Morrowind, etc, then you may just want to wait a little longer and try this one before investing a lot of time elsewhere. Which isn't to say you shouldn't try others, of course, but if you're anything like me, you may want to just try the free-to-play MMO's first in the meantime and then wait until after trying ESO to commit more time (and money) to anything.

Star Citizen (3, Insightful)

ducomputergeek (595742) | about 9 months ago | (#45495227)

Which is about to reach $30M in crowd funding...although hurry as the ability to get life time insurance for your ships will be ending next week. Then LTI will only be on the grey market...

Sounds familiar (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495237)

This all sounds familiar. An expansion comes out that removes complexity and overhauls the game in a way the playerbase didn't ask for. This is reminiscent of what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies and the NGE (New Game Enhancements) that launched about a week after a major expansion.

Re: Sounds familiar (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495447)

I love my SWGEmu.

Recomendation (0)

glrotate (300695) | about 9 months ago | (#45495269)

Yeah, don't play video games.

Dork.

I am not sure the mains will be better. (1)

Sally Bowls (2952007) | about 9 months ago | (#45495271)

People and especially MMO players hate change so your reaction to traits is your personal preference. I still like LotRO. However, the new lotro system is just joining mainstream MMOs. The latest WoW talent tree is very sparse - choose 1 of 3 talents for every 15 levels (six max). Most interesting talent tree by far is Rift. Try another game but I would not expect any of the AAA title except rift to have a talent tree much different than HD. If you are an endgame raider with considerable time to devote each week, preferably with a fixed schedule then WoW is great. If not, it's not. Of the MMOs I have played for more than 100 hours it is SWTOR > LotRO > Rift >> WoW >>>>> EVE. There are so many good features of EVE but the whole / community is way too toxic for my tastes. There are many big games ramping up the hype machine but none are shipping and it is TBD what they will do. Wildstar, Elder Scrolls Online, Everquest next, Star Citizen. The interesting, very different option is Everquest landmark the game that is the creation part of the upcoming Everquest Next.

Progress Quest (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495297)

MMORPG are all about griding and getting you hooked with an unending stream of minor rewards.
Go cold turkey on MMORPGs and find something different that's actually fun.

EVE Online (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495307)

EVE Online may seem like a spaceship game, but it's really a RPG, you just happen to be flying a spaceship (most of the time). Unlike other games where you can only play with friends if you are on the same server, EVE Online always has the same connections. You can meet anybody else that plays the game, at any time.

The account is $15 per month, but you can easily make enough money in game to pay for the account with in game money.

WARNING: EVE Online does not have a learning curve, it has a learning cliff. That is because the game has a lot to it. Be patient, and give it at least two weeks on the trial account.

There are plenty of Youtube videos to help you out, and there is plenty of help in game.

Current State of MMOs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495311)

So, just as a background I have an extensive record with this subject matter ranging from UO to current gen. I currently dabble in 4-6 games right now and the reasong being is that each one has and aspect that I greatly enjoy but they don't fully deliver as a package. As of recent I have returned to EQ2 and am enjoyiong that for the time being while waiting for EQN. I am also partaking in EVE online, but as always I feel like I am logging into work. I really really tried to force myself to focus on FFXIV:ARR but right now im at the point where I am just burned out from the poor netcoding and character polling (which EQ2 is spot on in this aspect)...not to mention having to deal with console players. As for GW2, one of my best friends is very active in the game and I so have some 80s, I have also tried to force myself to really play the game, but any progression (be it in ascended items or guild missions) don't really give any clear or desireable advantage for someone who is about min/maxing with margins higher than .5% an item. As for Rift I logged back into it recently because I forgot to cancel my yearly subscription ( which was well over $100) and it just doesn't fully do it for me, as the characters feel disconnected from the combat but I really enjoy the class customization. For right now overall I would have to rate EQ2 as being the most playable and enjoyable due to all the possibilities, the only problem is that it might be a little overwhelming for a newer player, but you can pay to create a heroic character which is a cool new feature and you can start at recent content.

Ogame (1)

DogDude (805747) | about 9 months ago | (#45495345)

Ogame is old (but updated) and brutal. NO grinding, but you have to be available to play 24/7.

Vanguard (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495351)

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes at https://www.vanguardthegame.com/

It is free to play with an optional cash store or subscription. It's got a small, but awesome community after the launch was incredibly mismanaged. It's been showing some signs of increased interest and more are playing every week. It has a large game world with four starting areas (one for each of three continents, then a global starting area).

Vanguard is more along old school design, ala Everquest, and still has some bugs but it is has great game play and non-adventuring options. VG has one of the best crafting systems ever made and has a non-adventuring / non-crafting system called diplomacy that lets you uncover more of the world's story. Diplomacy is implemented as a card game between you and a NPC. Diplomacy is also used for generating city-wide buffs. While it's run by SOE (I consider this a strike), you can pay by game card purchased at retailers if you don't trust Sony with your credit card (I don't).

Guess what? Millions are already there. (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about 9 months ago | (#45495371)

"Helm's Deep, involved cutting many skills for all classes, with a only a handful reclaimable through the new, 1-dimensional trait trees."

Welcome to Hell, buddy!

Sounds like this is a change towards "Action MMO" design, with reduced powers and complexity, oriented for console implementation.

You're supposed to beat the keyboard furiously with a handful of powers, rather than some deep strategy of executing carefully-crafted characters in deep ways. This asininity is the new gameplay shoved down our throats.

It keeps growing even as flop after flop is released.

It makes WoW look beyond epic.

Why oh why couldn't the Perfect World/NCSoft axis of evil sell City of Heroes instead of kill it? These things are hobbies. It's like some model train company closed, so they came into your basement, took all your engines and railroad cars, and tore out your plaster mountains and smashed your model buildings you spent years crafting.

Ultima Online (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495387)

Nothing will ever come as close to the detail/live world MMORPG that this game has to offer.. Graphics are outdated, but what are we really seeking here?

MUD and Neverwinter Nights (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495415)

I have become disenchanted with most MMOs, as most non-raiders do.

Lately I have a rekindled interest in an old MUD for the social aspect.

For my fantasy fix, I just reloaded Neverwinter Nights. If you want to build out a character, this type of game is great.

No school like the old school. Now get off my lawn so I can get back to my old games.

Best free rpg: Path of Exile (1)

apraetor (248989) | about 9 months ago | (#45495421)

It's free to play, but features an amazingly complex and interconnected skill tree. Any class can use any combination of skills; it's just where on the 2D skill matrix you start that changes.

Non-comprehensive list (4, Informative)

war4peace (1628283) | about 9 months ago | (#45495451)

EVE Online:
Pros: player-driven game, space!, huge selection of ships, skills, development paths.
Cons: subscription-driven, scammers galore, some RMT, mandating long gaming sessions, a destroyed ship is a lost ship, steep learning curve.

World of Tanks:
Pros: Free-to-Play, one of the cheapest premium costs around, tanks!, PvP-only.
Cons: filled to the brim with retard players.

World of Warplanes:
Pros: Free-to-Play, airplanes!, PvP-only.
Cons: fledgling game, retard players galore, gay game mechanics (literally: get behind the enemy player so you can fuck him up)

War Thunder: World of Tanks and World of Warplanes combined, same pros and cons apply.

Mech Warrior Online:
Pros: mechs!
Cons: pretty much everything else...

LOTRO: screw it, it's discussed.

Path of Exile:
Pros: Free-to-Play, no P2W whatsoever, huge skill tree.
Cons: confusing trading system, too much crap loot, if you mess up your build you have to start over.

Firefall:
Pros: Future-based, apocalyptic setting, jumpjets!, battleframes! (and a nice selection too), PvE, nice graphics, original mining method.
Cons: forever beta, filled with bugs, weird mix of fluff and gloom, confused development path, durability hit on death, gets boring and repetitive very fast.

Warframe:
Pros: Nice space-based lore, battleframes, interesting idea behind the game.
Cons: confusing level design, in-your-face P2W, gets boring after a while.

Neverwinter:
Pros: great lore, nice graphics, good game mechanics, good skill tree, consistent development, web gateway with crafting.
Cons: one of the most P2W games ever!, end-game means you either do 5-man quests or nothing.

Planetside 2:
Pros: huge maps, has tanks, has motorcycles of sorts, has flying vehicles, pew-pew PvP, massive PvP.
Cons: P2W galore, rubberbanding massive fights, vast areas feel devoid of... well, everything.

Hawken:
Pros: F2P, mechs!, PvP
Cons: too complex to handle for a twitch-based game. I think game speed should have been 1/2x of what's now to warrant tactical thinking rather than just "the younger player wins by reflex skill".

====================
Some of the games I have only played very little:

Rift: horrible game mechanics. Enough said.
Vindictus: too manga. Could have been great but...
Tera: played the stress test limited open beta, didn't quite understand what was happening, I just didn't click with it.
Ryzom: played it a bit years ago, I heard it no longer requires subscription. IIRC it was good enough for a F2P MMO, but not good enough for subscription-based.

Disclaimer: this is my personal, subjective opinion on all these games. I played them all. YMMV.

Avoid them. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495453)

World of Snorecraft is the same old, same old.

EQ2 is old and dead. If you want to shoot pixie dust out of your arse and/or build a house, it's viable, but other than that... Man, it's just dated and everything awesome still requires giving up your primary method of income to take a job as a raider.

GW2 is old and dead despite being young. You'll find nothing but empty maps as you explore the world, a failed abortion of "e-sports" in PvP, and an increasingly stale WvW where the balance is made up and the points don't matter because your server's success depends solely on how many guilds you have in other timezones.

EVE is great if you like spreadsheets. Alternatively, you could just buy an Office 365 subscription. You won't be able to be a braindead miner, but you will be able to whip up a mean Powerpoint.

Everything else is even in a worse state or doesn't even exist. (Seriously, just looking at titles, half the shit idiots are posting here is, "ABLOOBLOO I R FANBOY GAME X (LOLOL CROWDFUNDSOURCING) IZ GUNNA BE K-RAD 2 COOL 4 ULOLOLOL")

You're pretty much not going to be playing a game that hasn't been released, so I feel confident in not recommending them.

tl;dr: Go find some single player games until the MMO industry sorts its shit. Hopefully it'll sort its shit. Because it's close on time to stick a fork in it.

Path of Exile (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495459)

It took me ten years to find the next game after Diablo 2 which I thought was going to be Diablo 3. I was wrong POE is what D2 should have been, it's awesome and with new expansions coming soon and constant updates.

Pros
-Free
-Constant Updates
-No pay to win model
-They actively hunt abusers trying to sell POE currency by banning those who buy it and sell as well
-The only shop items are purely cosmetic effects
-Awesome end game content
-Extremely diverse skill tree and builds
-New expansion coming
-New char added not too long ago
-A ever expanding population, they just keep adding more and more channels I love it :) The sleepless 80 hour gaming session I had I was 15 playing D2 but I recently topped that on POE.
-Hardcore mode chars return to standard if they die. "Fucking A wish D2 had that when I lost my 98 Barb after a freaking DC, damn you dial up :("
-Potions auto fill
-No limits on bow making you have to use a full inv of arrows.

Neutral
-The builds can be complex and very tricky to learn.
-The difficulty skyrockets in merc mode.
-Exp slows down a lot around 85
-Gem linking on builds can be confusing at times
-6 Linked items are a pain in the ass to find I only have 5 and I've been playing hardcore
-Evil cramp worst end game map ever and it was my first map dropped, in fact it's so bad people have tried to buy it from me just to have.

Cons
-Looting system timers are fast but you still have a chance to loot your shit if you keep your eyes open.
-Ninjas Stop Bruce LEEing my drops :(
-Need a good card to run it and even then some of the skills can be extremely taxing. Luckily people made a program with Auto It to disable the extra skill effects to increase quality and POE does not care about that.
-Ruining my sleep, it's like crack.

quick summaries (4, Informative)

bugnuts (94678) | about 9 months ago | (#45495461)

How do Guild Wars 2, RIFT, World of Warcraft and all the other MMORPGs stack up these days?

Plain and simply, wow has the best boss and quest mechanics, and is essentially required to be fairly balanced. Few bugs. No mmo has come close to the wealth of mechanics they have, from riding vehicles, reverse gravity, several stages of fights, dual-phases where people teleport around, special abilities gained to help defeat a boss, etc. And they have some clever people who balance things out to make sure the challenge is appropriate.

GW2 has attempted to get away from the holy trinity of tank/healer/dps, and introduced working area quests. Yes, they're not the first, but it works. It also has many exploration quests, which I find awesome. Even unmarked platform jumping challenge "quests" of sorts.

Sad to hear about lotro. But as I've always said, "The best, and the worst, thing about MMOs is the people."

Your enjoyment might hinge on having a good social construct in-game. If you're moving with your guild, move to whatever game they go to. If you're off to solo, find a game that's soloable. If you have limited playtime, find a game that you can dabble in and still be successful. But just saying "I need a game that requires more than 2 buttons" doesn't give much insight on how you actually prefer to play. There are tons of different games out there, from things like group-oriented Puzzle Pirates to soloable Asheron's Call to Star Wars to Neverwinter. But it's not possible to make a good recommendation without better info.

You might even be happy playing a single-player game, depending what you want.

Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45495471)

Although I do miss the ability to change from offense to defense on the fly (champion) Its not quite the face roll you imply. Be that as it may check out mmorpg.com for a comprehensive list of mmo titles and ratings. You can likely find something there. GW2 has the tree and handful of buttons you are complaining about, but since you get that from the start it might work for you. GL and don't forget to send your stuff to Hakki if you are on Brandywine. Cheers!

MMORPG plus Bitcoin (1)

Ken Broadfoot (3675) | about 9 months ago | (#45495475)

Lets do both.... an MMORPG combined with Bitcoins...

http://dragons.tl/ [dragons.tl]

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