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If You Want To Code From Home, Learn JavaScript

timothy posted about 8 months ago | from the ocaml-guys-all-work-from-spaceships dept.

Programming 152

itwbennett writes "Earlier this month, remote-work cheerleader and Basecamp developer 37signals launched a job board called WeWorkRemotely.com that is, you guessed it, devoted to telecommuting jobs. At present there are only a couple hundred jobs listed on the site, so you'll still have to use other job boards as well. (Dice, SimplyHired, and Craigslist all have filters for finding remote working jobs.) But here's another thing that will help you land a work-from-home gig: Learn JavaScript. ITworld's Phil Johnson looked at a number of job postings for software developers open to people wanting to work remotely and then compared the frequency with which a number of popular programming languages and technologies were mentioned by the postings to determine the top tech skills for telecommuting jobs. Not surprisingly, the ubiquitous JavaScript topped the list, being mentioned in just over 20% of these listings. Other languages and tools used for the web are high up the list as well: jQuery at #3 (12.5%), PHP at #5 (9.5%) in the fifth spot, iOS at #8 (5.6%)."

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152 comments

Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508425)

Or properly learn C++, move to DC and get your 120k working for defense contractor

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (4, Funny)

royallthefourth (1564389) | about 8 months ago | (#45508453)

If I'm going to damn my soul, I'd rather find other ways

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (3, Funny)

davester666 (731373) | about 8 months ago | (#45508547)

So, you've chosen Java as the way to damn your soul?

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45511009)

You mean C#?

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45511633)

You mean C#?

C# (pronounced (C-Hash) is a dead-end language that'll be eol'd when Microsoft gets distracted into playing catch-up with real innovation. They'll dump it like a hotcake and end up chasing the next great opportunity they've allowed to pass them by. Don't get suckered into wasting time and energy following them into a blind alley.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (3, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 8 months ago | (#45508577)

Because nothing damns your soul as much as assisting an organization that provides huge amounts of disaster relief in a catastrophe.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (5, Insightful)

royallthefourth (1564389) | about 8 months ago | (#45508695)

*turns entire countries into catastrophes

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

Derec01 (1668942) | about 8 months ago | (#45509061)

*turns entire countries into catastrophes

It's an efficient circle.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509003)

Like javascript?

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509821)

How much are souls for hire payed, today?

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (3, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 months ago | (#45508461)

Its a job, that actually is paying quite well, during a poor economy. Don't knock it.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (5, Insightful)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45508525)

Well no one is going to hire you for 120k a year because you read a LEARN C++ in 24 hours book.

You need many years of experience and a computer science degree or mathematics to back you up with 5 managerial references minimum! Those who want to reply back or mod me how they didn't need that? Fine, how much are you making? I bet it aint 120k without all if not 2 out of the 3 of these.

For 120k a better have all as I can hire 2 developers for the same price or more if I want to have someone inexperienced in India.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 months ago | (#45508555)

I was referring to the slam at being a federal contractor paying far more than the national average, instead of the 'learn from a book and get a nice job tomorrow' mentality.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45508631)

Some make 120k in Silcon Valley too.

It is over valued to the insane.

But DC is almost as expensive as silicon Valley. $120,000 a year might get you a 1200 square foot home in a crime infested neighborhood. Of course wherever there is a military base the price of homes always triples too due to these high prices job so it is a chicken and the egg scenario.

I feel sorry for those who must barista at Starbucks in either area. How do they survive? Seriously, some people just got down on their luck and become unemployable during the last recession and need such jobs. It doesn't matter when the landlord knows he can charge $5,000 a month and have renters all out bidding each other for that one bedroom in an attic.

Re: Or properly learn C++, move to DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508803)

"$120,000 a year might get you a 1200 square foot home in a crime infested neighborhood."

It's expensive out here, but that's an exaggeration. 120K is a heck of a salary anywhere.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (4, Interesting)

CodeBuster (516420) | about 8 months ago | (#45508821)

It doesn't matter when the landlord knows he can charge $5,000 a month and have renters all out bidding each other for that one bedroom in an attic.

So get creative. Buy a used van conversion in decent condition, get a gym membership and live out of your van until you can get on your feet. Many in Silicon Valley have done this and even crazier things to make it. Always remember that it's easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission, so don't be a prisoner to rules that were created by landlords and others like them to keep you down. Your advantage over them is that you have less to loose and are willing to do things that they didn't believe you would or could to survive. As a young person, getting ahead these days requires cunning and deceit. Do not fail to use these methods when necessary.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508907)

Or move somewhere cheaper. If you get 20% less in Dallas (example) but you can get a place for $600 a month you end up getting much further ahead ... that is if you are willing to live in Texas ?!

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (4, Informative)

ATMAvatar (648864) | about 8 months ago | (#45510603)

So true. There are plenty of places with a cost of living far below a place like DC or Silicon Valley which pay decently enough that you end up way ahead.

For comparison, CNN's site has a cost of living calculator [cnn.com] , and the US census site has several pages about cost of living [census.gov] worth looking at.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508929)

Don't fall for the bait -- the GP is exaggerating. $5000/month for an attic? You can get a 2-bedroom apartment in a brand new building, in a non-crime-infested neighborhood, on top of 2 metro lines, for $2000: http://www.aventineforttotten.com/Floor-Plans.aspx.

If you're willing to live away from public transit in an old building, a 2BR in a non-ghetto area can still be found for $1000 or less.

re: live out of your van (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509037)

I'm a UNIX systems administrator with 30 years of continuous industrial-strength experience in Silicon Valley.

I've been living outside the San Francisco Bay Area since 2005 - when it became too expensive to raise a family with just two incomes.

I've been sleeping in my van and showering at a gym for EIGHT !@#$ years. And driving 300 miles, each way, every weekend, to see my kids ands wife and bask in the warmth of my family.

Recently I've been seeing hourly wages for contractors fall to a level I have not personally seen since the early to mid 1990s - twenty years ago.

- $35/hour for people with 3-5 years experience and multidisciplinary skills
- $50/hour for people with 5-10 years experience, etc

This, despite the cost of gas, food and rent having escalated dramatically - I would conservatively estimate the cost of everything *else* has doubled.

There is no question in my mind that the value of DOWNTIME has not decreased over the past twenty years. The value of the work I do is as valuable as it ever was - maybe moreso.

From this I infer that the compensation I should be receiving for the work I am doing should be substantially greater than it actually is.

Were I to be brutally honest with myself I would be forced to admit that I have saved my employers millions of dollars in cumulative downtime every year.

I'm tired of being cheated and I am angry at those whom are doing the stealing. They are criminals. Why am I being punished?

Lowering the price of gas will not dissuade my anger. It only increases my anger - because the control over gas prices only reaffirms the thievery, anew.

I speak for many.

Re: live out of your van (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45509309)

"Recently I've been seeing hourly wages for contractors fall to a level I have not personally seen since the early to mid 1990s - twenty years ago."

"Recently I've been seeing hourly wages for contractors fall to a level I have not personally seen since the early to mid 1990s - twenty years ago.

apparently not. Value == money.

Not to say you are incompetent. Just that your employer doesn't value you or your contribution. Fuck them.

Time to update your resume and talk to your wife and move to Montana? If she were willing to start over or even retire you can get paid the same or even less and live like a fucking king based on the equity of your home if you bought it before the boom.

When your employer doesn't value you it means your relationship is in turmoil with yourself and the employer. Either the employer wants you out and doesn't give a shit about your needs or you do not give a damn your employers needs. Time to severe it.

Austin Texas, Boulder Colorado, and even Montana are having .coms start there due to the lower cost of living and people like yourself can live like human beings.

Re: live out of your van (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45511669)

OK...well, I'm a Unix C++ developer in Southern California with 5 years if cross-platform experience. I was hired fresh out of college at $70k/year with full benefits (and not as a contractor). Currently, I make substantially more than that, and from what I've heard, similar positions in the Bay Area pay a lot more.

I sleep in my bed in my condo every night, alongside my wife. I shower in my own bathroom.

I drive 12 miles round-trip every day to get between work and home.

Saying that it sounds like you've been cheated is a vast understatement. It sounds like a great time to look into relocating elsewhere, or at least searching for a job that doesn't want you to bend over and take it in the ass. On the other hand, if you can't find a better job, then there's the possibility that the market has decided that your work isn't worth as much as you think.

With anything, an employer will pay you the lowest that they think they can get away with. Obviously, there's some reason that your employer (and possibly your industry) thinks that they can shaft you like they've been doing. The best course of action would be to figure out what changed in the last decade or two, and figure out a way around it (such as a way to argue that you're worth more than they're paying for you, and that they're going to lose you and be unable to re-fill your vacancy if they can't keep up). If you don't have a reason for them to pay more, they won't.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509243)

Too bad your brilliant plan is no longer legal in Palo Alto.

http://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2013/08/05/palo-alto-bans-vehicle-dwelling

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

CodeBuster (516420) | about 8 months ago | (#45510403)

Too bad your brilliant plan is no longer legal in Palo Alto.

And yet how many successful people in the valley got that way by bending or even breaking the rules. What's the worst that can happen? They ask you to move on? They can't even get the panhandlers off the street corners here in California without the ACLU jumping all over them, do you really think they're going to waste a lot of time enforcing ordinances against overnight parking?

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

Jeremi (14640) | about 8 months ago | (#45510787)

, do you really think they're going to waste a lot of time enforcing ordinances against overnight parking?

Sure, why wouldn't they? In many cities, parking tickets are a significant profit center.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

symbolset (646467) | about 8 months ago | (#45510741)

If I wanted to live in a van down by the river, I would have majored in Humanities or Art History.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508877)

I live in DC and have plenty of friends making 30K-40K in the nonprofit sector. They are getting by just fine, although it would probably be necessary for both parents in a family to work and earn that much in order to afford the rent.

I suppose that a single parent making 30K-40K in DC would have quite a difficult time living on that salary, but single parents have hard lives no matter where they live.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509611)

But DC is almost as expensive as silicon Valley. $120,000 a year might get you a 1200 square foot home in a crime infested neighborhood.

Uuuh, no. I live in the DC area, make 105k, and live in a pretty nice 1600 sq ft townhouse in an effectively crime free neighborhood. Yes, it's an hour commute into DC, but it's still very much the DC area. It would be like working in downtown SFO and living in Mountain View or Sunnyvale. 350-400k for a townhouse IS absurd, but you can find SFH's for similar rates, in similar neighborhoods if you go up into Loudoun along the Dulles Tollroad/Greenway.

That said, I wouldn't live in DC even if it was paid for. The city schools are horrifyingly bad, except for -very- specific schools in Northwest DC, and their city council and mayor's office define 'corrupt'.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (3, Interesting)

Greyfox (87712) | about 8 months ago | (#45509325)

I've run across a few useless people over the years who've managed to bring down ridiculous rates despite complete technical incompetence. Near as I can tell they mostly did it by lying on their resumes, bullshitting their way through interviews and leaving the company for a new contract after a few months, before anyone catches on that they really don't know anything about programming. If the company is lucky, these people simply don't contribute anything while they're there. If they DO actually do anything, cleaning up the mess they leave is a monumental task. I once hired on after a programmer who left abruptly about a week before a project was due to be delivered. It was a C project for an inventory extension for a very large client. This programmer had strung the company along for the better part of a year. When I got in there, first thing I noticed was they didn't realize that C strings were null terminated. That's the level of programmer I was picking up after. Despite this, the company was unwilling to scrap the last year's worth of work and wanted me to salvage it. Trying to do that actually took more time than it would have to just throw everything away and design and implement the project from scratch.

Most of those useless people got weeded out when the tech stock bubble collapsed, but I've noticed a new generation of them making their way back, now. Companies are lowering their standards and letting HR do the screening, interviewing and the hiring. HR departments seem to be mostly unable to distinguish between good programmers and bad ones and tend to take the view that one programmer is as good as another and they can be replaced with no impact to the company. My personal observations are that (in general) it takes a year for a new person to become familiar enough with a company's code base and processes to be able to be able to contribute at 100% productivity. One guy who knows your business at 120K is easily worth 3 or 4 contractors at 60K who need to be trained. On average one or two of those contractors will be completely useless and contribute at best nothing of value to your company, 3 or 4 of them will be gone in 6 months just as they're starting to get familiar with how your business works and all of them are going to impact the productivity of your other employees with their training needs.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509559)

And they make more then you!

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (2)

NormalVisual (565491) | about 8 months ago | (#45511327)

Companies are lowering their standards and letting HR do the screening, interviewing and the hiring.

I'm very thankful to work at a place that not only offers pretty good pay, but an HR department that works very closely with us when dealing with new candidates. A dev manager does the initial phone screen, and he and our senior devs conduct the interview themselves after the candidate has a short meeting with HR. It's unfortunately kind of grueling for the candidate, but we get a much better idea of what kinds of skills the candidate *really* has and a feel for their personality and disposition. Consequently, we don't have any difficult prima donnas and every single one in the dev group knows that C strings are null-termed. :-D Seriously though, it makes for a much better work environment because everyone is comparable in their level of competence (even the junior guys are damned sharp), and that tends to make it a lot easier for all of us to work together and get stuff done.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509669)

You need many years of experience and a computer science degree or mathematics to back you up with 5 managerial references minimum! Those who want to reply back or mod me how they didn't need that? Fine, how much are you making? I bet it aint 120k without all if not 2 out of the 3 of these.

I'm on >150k with only 5 years experience, and only really one managerial reference, though I do have the CS background.

For 120k a better have all as I can hire 2 developers for the same price or more if I want to have someone inexperienced in India.

And then you have 2 problems.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (3, Interesting)

taoboy (118003) | about 8 months ago | (#45508807)

Harder for them to outsource you, if the job involves a security clearance. Harder for you to work from home, however.

Oh, god, not this trope again. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509605)

If you're interested in projects with glacial pacing, going to lots of meetings, eating lots of doughnuts, not actually building anything ever, and getting trapped in an industry you dislike because your technical skills have atrophied, then defense contracting is the thing for you.

But if you want to, you know, actually write software that actually gets deployed and used, then for the love of all that is good and holy, don't even glance at defense contracting.

It'll suck the soul right out of your body.

Re:Oh, god, not this trope again. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509667)

Heh. Defense contracting is where old, out-of-date programmers go to hang on for dear life until retirement.

Re:Or properly learn C++, move to DC (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509919)

that's not enough to live on in DC

Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (3, Insightful)

walterbyrd (182728) | about 8 months ago | (#45508451)

Get on those sites, and you are competing with 3rd world wages.

But you can work from home, for $2 an hour.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (2)

morbis (1130705) | about 8 months ago | (#45508513)

Get on those sites, and you are competing with 3rd world wages.

But you can work from home, for $2 an hour.

I haven't delved too deeply into this site, but I'll hazard a guess that it's a job board for people who exclusively want to work from home. They're not necessarily trying to outbid each other in an effort to gain a small amount of work. With sites like freelancer.com, on the other hand, developers are offered third world wages for small projects and must compete with other developers to further drive their prices down.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 months ago | (#45508567)

But you can work from home, for $2 an hour.

I suppose, but it would barely pay your ( reduced ) overhead, let alone make a living.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (4, Interesting)

SuperCharlie (1068072) | about 8 months ago | (#45508569)

Having owned and run my own little web biz for 5 years now, I have run estimates on my real hourly income.. and its a little depressing. It usually does end up below minimum wage, but then a big job (feast cycle) hits and we start over. On the other hand..I have managed to pay bills for 5 years now in my PJ's..so I go tthat goin for me...

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (5, Interesting)

korbulon (2792438) | about 8 months ago | (#45508785)

Sounds like an excellent way to skate along the cusp of poverty. Out of curiosity, do you have a long-term plan to break the cycle, perhaps a phase two?

This sort of menial programming work is crowded out by "third world" programmers - they do a good enough job at bargain basement prices. After all, no one is asking them to refactor a GUI or build drivers for an OS. There's no way to compete with that and expect to earn a decent living in a western country.

Used to be that a programming job guaranteed a decent standard of living. Now it's just laughable. To be a good programmer requires the same sort of commitment and training regime that a lawyer or doctor has to endure. Big difference: doctors and lawyers are essentially guildmembers. They have a code and rites of passage which help to maintain a certain standard and limit supply. With programmers it's each man for himself.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (4, Interesting)

SuperCharlie (1068072) | about 8 months ago | (#45508941)

I am a little on the strange side. I dont expect anyone to like or appreciate this, but I try and stay below poverty for income if I can for a few reasons. The overall business plan is to build sites and such for low down and small monthlys, get enough of that and hosting to make a residual income and then just pick up checks and do whatever jobs roll along. Almost at the $1k residual mark, and with new and fixit jobs wandering in as well as my wife has an online shop it is slowly growing and working. Not that there isnt squeeky tight times, but for 5 years now we have kept the lights on and food on the plate and it is getting easier.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

korbulon (2792438) | about 8 months ago | (#45509117)

Not that there isnt squeeky tight times, but for 5 years now we have kept the lights on and food on the plate and it is getting easier.

So basically you're a member of the American middle class. Keep on Truckin'...

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (3, Interesting)

eriks (31863) | about 8 months ago | (#45509259)

Liked. Appreciated. I do (essentially) the same thing. Have been for almost 15 years. Vastly under-rated "business model": live (quite) comfortably with a (very) low-expense lifestyle and not be stressed out and over-burdened with work. I generally am just above "poverty" income, rather than below. It's kind of funny (strange), the years where a make a little more than usual usually hurt because I have to pay more in self-employment tax, so my net income is lower than if I had just made a little less... can't win 'em all...

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

Gavagai80 (1275204) | about 8 months ago | (#45509753)

You're doing your taxes horribly wrong if your net income comes out lower. Self-employment tax is a straight percentage of your income, it's impossible to make less net with more gross because of it.

Re: Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (4, Interesting)

corychristison (951993) | about 8 months ago | (#45509503)

Same boat here basically.

I've been doing web design and development since I was 10. I've been making money doing it since I was 14. I moved out on my own when I was 15.

I turn 25 one week from today. I'm now married with two kids. I live in a small town of approx 35,000 people in Saskatchewan, Canada. We are currently renting a town house for around $700/mo. Basic utilities are around $150/mo.

With my wife working full time with a wage around $13.50/hr it certainly works for us. I stay home with the kids (daycare is expensive!) and work around her schedule when it comes to meeting with clients, etc.

The goal is when both of my kids are in school, I will be able to really focus on the business and take on even more clients. Eventually rent some office space and grow from there.

Build it up little by little and eventually you will be comfortable. Around here you can make around $35,000/year before paying taxes. That certainly makes it easier.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (2)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45509763)

I am a little on the strange side. I dont expect anyone to like or appreciate this, but I try and stay below poverty for income if I can for a few reasons. The overall business plan is to build sites and such for low down and small monthlys, get enough of that and hosting to make a residual income and then just pick up checks and do whatever jobs roll along. Almost at the $1k residual mark, and with new and fixit jobs wandering in as well as my wife has an online shop it is slowly growing and working. Not that there isnt squeeky tight times, but for 5 years now we have kept the lights on and food on the plate and it is getting easier.

Not to sound judgmental here but I surely hope your wife does not have any kids!?

Watch your back as she just may leave you for another man who would be happy to work harder and make more money and give her what she needs in a nicer home with less financial stress etc?

It is selfish to not be working to your full potential. Even if your wife is hoping her business takes off as you have bills to pay and a family to support. Even if you do not have kids you need to provide for her and yourself and keep fighting to keep what you have when you get older. These things happen more than you think and you could be just one medical accident for total bankruptacy if you go to a hospital.

I got paid shit when I was married and did what I could to move out of it and lost my spouse in the process. Her lover was a doctor who made $130k a year and didn't give excuses of a bad economy or we will be rich later etc.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509851)

Then, and I apologize, your wife was a skank. She should have loved you and stayed with regardless of the money you made, as long as you were out there trying to better yourself. Be lucky she didn't get anymore of your time and money then she did.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

xtracto (837672) | about 8 months ago | (#45509303)

After all, no one is asking them to refactor a GUI or build drivers for an OS.

I think HP and/or Intel build some of their drivers in "third world countries". Is that the reason why they are utter crap?

(disc. I live in a "third world" country).

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

XcepticZP (1331217) | about 8 months ago | (#45509373)

Perhaps you should move to the third world, then and see how well your "laughable" salary treats you. It really isn't as bad as they tell you. I know, I work there. Good companies here don't actually hire the "outsource" labor that the first/western world uses when they want cheap stuff done. They hire quality developers that set themselves apart from the "outsource" type of labor.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

korbulon (2792438) | about 8 months ago | (#45510705)

Now I never said there weren't good programmers in the third world. That's ridiculous. There are good people everywhere. All I was trying to say is that for a lot of coding work, it is very difficult to make a decent wage in the first world, because of the high and rising costs of living - especially in major metropolitan areas - and the fact that you can find people who can do the same work for a lot cheaper because their costs of living are much much lower. Purchase price parity. The only way you can possibly compete in the job market is if you bring higher and higher levels of expertise to prospective employers. But that pool is also shrinking, as your message testifies to, as companies realize they can get the same work done for a lot less.

The main problem with this is that you will have an increasingly large number of highly educated people who have spent a big chunk of their life learning a trade suddenly realizing they cannot support their family on their salary, if they have a job at all. Of course, it's not a problem for the companies, is it?

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45509713)

Plenty of rich programmers making 6 figures!

No Doctors and Lawyers who are successful do not rich for being guildmembers. They get rich by providing an excellent value and work their damn asses off.

Good developers work as hard as doctors and lawyers and are always at home working another skillset or late in the office to fulfill a deadline.

Plumbers make $100,000 a year too. Difference? They get shit done and work 60 hours a week like everyone else.

If you can't compete against someone in a 3rd world country then you are incompetent. Either work harder or do something else. Unionization is not the answer. Right now I am changing career paths with an interest in teaching. It pisses me off I can not get paid a lot of money because some teachers are so terrible that they can't fire that tax payers demand teachers to be paid low. I do not blame them. Now if America was leading in education again without guildmembers or unions then I can argue I work 60 hours a week like these Slashdot programmers and provide a great value. I would like to be paid more etc?

The difference is between 1999 and 2013 is that corporations demand accountability. Just like my example with teachers or plumbers you need to provide a client with more money than you take away. If not then you do not deserve to have it. Good programmers at Facebook are all millionaires and do not give me that craplola on how they were lucky. The product they made is worth billions so they deserve it.

if what you make is only bought by a local restaurant wanting a website for their menu then a kid using photoshop can do it and use a wizard with an ISP to create the site. Then you are worth shit.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

korbulon (2792438) | about 8 months ago | (#45510551)

The difference is between 1999 and 2013 is that corporations demand accountability

...from everybody except themselves. I mean I'd call you a shill, but you probably aren't being paid to write this drivel. What does that make you? Huh, probably an Objectivist.

Of course they were lucky. Luck was by far the biggest factor in their success. There are ten of thousands of people who worked just as hard, and are just as smart, but don't have much to show for it. Right place, right time, absurd rewards. And if you honestly believe Facebook is worth over a 100 billion bucks, then there really is nothing further to discuss.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45510893)

Well I never met a successful person who not a workaholic. I read books by Larry Winget like "You are broke because you want to be" and other motivational speakers who are not all fancy with slogans.

People are poor because they lack quality and quantity. If you work 29 hours a week at a Walmart you get paid for what society thinks you are worth. Anymore and people would move on to Target. If you change the world with a wonderful idea and work 100 hours a week to make it happen you become very wealthy.

It is not luck at all. People who work hard for just 40 hours a week and watch TV when they get home and do average work and missdeadlines occasionally will stay lower middle class. Those who get MBAs on the weekend and work 60 hours and never ever miss a deadline get promoted.

Programmers who have experience, many references, and have a track record of working on successful products get paid 6 figures. If you do not make this then you need to focus on both the quantity and quality of your labor. Yes corps do demand accountability. Metrics is the rage now complete with ranking systems at most major employers. Meet them or get replaced.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

Charliemopps (1157495) | about 8 months ago | (#45508985)

I think the real question is what's so much more "super" about you than me?

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

tibman (623933) | about 8 months ago | (#45509231)

Keep it up!

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509249)

Well ... not only that. Since you are working from home, you can probably afford to move to a place where housing is much cheaper and you might even gaining a lot more in quality of life (e.g., more time with the kids, stronger sense of community etc). Living in a place like San Francisco or New York is extremily expensive. At the end a lot of that good salary, might end up in someone else's pocket anyways.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (3, Funny)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45508797)

Nonsense.

If you know JS but not HTML 5, iOS app development, CSS 3, noSQL JSON, or any new web 3.0 stuff then I agree you aren't worth more than 2 an hour.

All I know is I see employers willing to pay $60,000+ or more a year to develop these apps. Craigslist and Monster is full of these jobs and they are going overseas because they can not find enough qualified workers. No not CHEAP qualified workers, I mean any qualified workers who know what a CANVAS tag is.

JS with HTML 5 pays a ton of money and you can download Virtualbox, turnkey Linux, Android SDK and use them all to have your own client/server app development at home. Microsoft is giving MS expressions both web and regular versions for free to at Microsoft.com which is close to Adobe Dreamweaver. Chome and even IE 11 have advanced tools too to troubleshoot and debug your JS.

This is where the market is going and even if you know IE 6 and IE 8 really well with MS SQL crappy intranet vendor companies are paying top dollars too if you want to specialize in this. Corporate customers do not care about staying modern and are more than happy to pay millions for it.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 8 months ago | (#45510491)

Mod parent up.

The "finding" reported by OP shows very clearly that just about any person who is ignorant of the subject at hand can run through some numbers, find a valid correlation, and come up with a remarkably ridiculous conclusion.

JavaScript is common to many of today's software technologies because JavaScript is THE client-side scripting language for the Web. But by itself, it isn't going to get you much of anywhere.

Re:Learn JS and compete with $2/hr developers (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509019)

$2 hour? You're being dramatic, IMHO.

I typically pay $15-$20/hr for quality PHP/MYSQL/JS work (on elance) that meets my requirements.

You can get cheaper folks, but I've tried them, and benchmarked a couple times for the exact same project. cheaper providers wind up costing my far more. They take more of their own time to complete the projects, and more of my time to hand-hold & test code for them. By the time the multiple rounds of bug fixes are done, I've paid $30-$40/hr for a "$7/hr" developer.

I'll use US providers when I need to have an enforceable non-compete / non-disclosure signed (e.g. when I must share too much about the project or its components)

Statistics (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508473)

"Employers looking for JS coders to work from home more than any other language" is not the same as "Programming in JS gives you the best chance to work from home."

They look similar, but one does not imply the other.

Re:Statistics (1)

fisted (2295862) | about 8 months ago | (#45508831)

Yes, it is. This is /., home of the logical fallacy.

All good programming opportunities is not the web (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508591)

I suspect that the majority of lower paying and temporary work-from-home programming opportunities involve Javascript.

However a senior Software Development Manager at Google recently confided that there is a significant demand industry wide for Python programming skills. Apparently several of the high end computer and smartphone/tablet gaming engine companies are also seeking qualified Python programming capabilities, as is noted by a senior IBMer, and for scientific research -NASA and many other technology and social sciences fields. Furthermore, expert Python programming skills command considerably higher salaries than for Javascript.

wanderson@nac.net

meaningsless (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508639)

"Job Postings" are not a good measure of actual jobs. Most of these postings are spammy fishing excercises done in bad faith. Hundreds apply, no one gets the job.

Re:meaningsless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508659)

And now I look like a dumbass for misspelling exercise...

Re:meaningsless (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508857)

No, wait, never mind.
Turns out I looked like an idiot to begin with.

Re:meaningsless (2)

PPH (736903) | about 8 months ago | (#45508969)

Javascript job postings are there to trigger banner ads for Javascript training and certification programs. Which you would see had you enabled Javascript.

Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (-1)

landofcleve (1959610) | about 8 months ago | (#45508691)

I am tired of using multiple plugins just to make the web usable.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (1)

fragfoo (2018548) | about 8 months ago | (#45508717)

I am tired of using multiple plugins just to make the web usable.

You don't need a plugin to run Javascript, actually the more it is used to replace flash or whatever, the less plugins there will be.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (1, Funny)

horm (2802801) | about 8 months ago | (#45508767)

You don't need a plugin to run Javascript

Yeah, I need a plugin to NOT run Javascript.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (1)

landofcleve (1959610) | about 8 months ago | (#45510807)

Exactly.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508781)

JS can be used to replace Flash?!?

The enemy of my enemy.....

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508795)

I believe he was referring to Javascript plugins to handle cross-browser incompatibilities. If that's the case, then it isn't JS that's the problem. It's the vendors.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45508829)

I disagree.

The problem is IE. That is old IE which can not do HTML 5, CSS 3 animations, JIT JS, or any of the other things.

Google Chrome experiments? All these are advanced. Also google IETest Drive ? Even IE 11 is ok finally again. Corps and grannies using XP and IE 8 is why you need plugins as ther ei sno way to make something pixel perfect in Chome as well as IE 6.

Technology is progressing. Just on phones now and if enough people upgrade more often it will put pressure on Grandma and the corps to modernize so we all can have a better experience.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (2)

DarwinSurvivor (1752106) | about 8 months ago | (#45511231)

I disagree.

The problem is IE. That is old IE which can not do HTML 5, CSS 3 animations, JIT JS, or any of the other things.

Google Chrome experiments? All these are advanced. Also google IETest Drive ? Even IE 11 is ok finally again. Corps and grannies using XP and IE 8 is why you need plugins as ther ei sno way to make something pixel perfect in Chome as well as IE 6.

Technology is progressing. Just on phones now and if enough people upgrade more often it will put pressure on Grandma and the corps to modernize so we all can have a better experience.

Then don't. You don't need your website to look exactly the same for every damn person and you shouldn't even be trying to. Different users have different preferences and needs. Some like bright colors, others need high contrast or large fonts, I presonally prefer a colored text on dark background. The more you web developers keep trying to make it look like a freaking picture, the more you piss off users that just want to read the text on your page.

For instance, many people find small black text on a white background fucking painful to read, but all of us slashdotters have to put up with it because their god damn javascript screws with everything.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (1)

Cantankerous Cur (3435207) | about 8 months ago | (#45511263)

For instance, many people find small black text on a white background fucking painful to read, but all of us slashdotters have to put up with it because their god damn javascript screws with everything.

Firefox + 'Color that site' is a wonderful thing.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (1)

gl4ss (559668) | about 8 months ago | (#45511775)

recently I did a responsive web page which relies heavily on js and css.

the only browsers I had to make couple of specific fixes for because they lie and don't work properly were IE's, albeit not on desktop. it was the windows phone 7.8 and windows phone 8 browsers which needed special attention - even symbian belle browser and opera mobiles worked just fine.

(and the fucks even changed the format of the user string between wp7.8 and wp8)

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (1)

landofcleve (1959610) | about 8 months ago | (#45510795)

i.e NoScript et al.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (1)

TechyImmigrant (175943) | about 8 months ago | (#45508823)

>Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA

No. The DOM and REST is why Javascript+DOM+REST is a PITA.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508935)

You don't need plugins to use javascript. You are confusing javascript with a javascript library like jquery that has plugins. They aren't needed. A lot of sites however, use a javascript library. Even your beloved slashdot or stackoverflow is using a javascript library.

Re:Javascript is the reason why the web is a PITA (1)

landofcleve (1959610) | about 8 months ago | (#45510799)

i.e NoScript and the like.

new clear options kode ready (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508725)

tears & innocence restoration begins at home featuring our greatest enemy,,, ourselves. no one can enemize us better although plenty of effort & expense goes into attempting same.

no bomb us more mom us

free the innocent stem cells

A basic ignorance of statistics... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508755)

...seems to underwrite this opinion. Maybe JavaScript is the language most requested, but how many people on the board already profess skill in it? You might do better to focus on a lesser used language if the ratio of (people already versed in it:jobs asking for it) is more favorable. Tsk, tsk.

JavaScript is today's BASIC... (1)

Max Threshold (540114) | about 8 months ago | (#45508839)

...ubiquitous, in-demand, and guaranteed to cause brain damage to any aspiring programmer who learns it first.

Re:JavaScript is today's BASIC... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508931)

... and like Basic you can make serious cash if you use it integrate with other things. VB developers who know SQL can make an ok living back in the day.

If you know JS and also Android, IOS, HTML 5, and CSS 3, then you can make decent money. Mobile app development is where it is at right now. Adopt and integrate into something else or perish like the basic developers did who didn't bother learning VB, SQL Server, IIS, etc.

Re:JavaScript is today's BASIC... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509239)

and heavily used by malware

Re:JavaScript is today's BASIC... (2)

narcc (412956) | about 8 months ago | (#45510459)

Sorry, what's wrong with it as a language?

Or were you just playing to a popular slashdot meme?

Re:JavaScript is today's BASIC... (1)

dkf (304284) | about 8 months ago | (#45510885)

...ubiquitous, in-demand, and guaranteed to cause brain damage to any aspiring programmer who learns it first.

It's not quite that bad. Now, imagine if it had been Perl 4 that had been widely adopted instead of one of the offspring of Smalltalk...
<shudders>

Absurdly slanted statistic (2)

MillerHighLife21 (876240) | about 8 months ago | (#45508847)

Web programming jobs are highly remote-work oriented and a basic knowledge of javascript is required for just about all of them. If you're a purely client side developer, clearly it's important.

Outside of that though, saying "Javascript EXPERT! Eleventy-billion years experience!" does absolutely nothing for a server side developer unless that job happens to revolve specifically around Node.js (in which case the job will probably just say Node.js).

Know a server side language well, deeply. Know databases. Basic competence with Javascript is all that is required outside of that. If you don't know any Javascript, it will probably disqualify you for most web position but on the scale of determining factors it's probably around a 2 in terms of level of importance.

Javascript, .... (2, Funny)

PPH (736903) | about 8 months ago | (#45508897)

... you know. That thing that's disabled in your browser.

Re:Javascript, .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509065)

... you know. That thing that's disabled in your browser.

I thought that was Flash and ActiveX.

Re:Javascript, .... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509267)

close but no cigar,
Java is always blocked by default in recent firefox versions, but they really want malware so javascript cant be disabled without brain surgery

Ubiquitous? Really? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45508979)

Not surprisingly, the ubiquitous JavaScript topped the list, being mentioned in just over 20% of these listings.

You keep using that word, I don't think It means what you think it means.

Stay off the client side (1)

Murdoch5 (1563847) | about 8 months ago | (#45509187)

When possible stay off the client side code.

What is the control group of the study? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509219)

Not sure I follow the research. Almost all software development jobs list JavaScript as a skill, even ones which have nothing to do with using it. Almost every job I've seen in the past year throws JavaScript into the list of skills. So if the ITWorld droid just filtered software jobs, then of course most of them will have JS as a skill. Typical job posting: "Skills: 15+ years CICS, MQ Series, and DB2. 10+ years C# and ASP.NET. Perl. JavaScript." For this to have any validity, there would have to be a control group of development jobs that don't require JS, and I can't figure out what that would be since most postings list JS whether it's a real skill need or not.

Absolutely crap methodology (4, Informative)

oneiros27 (46144) | about 8 months ago | (#45509371)

He took a list of 10 languages, added another list of languages, then looked for those ...

Ie, there could well be other languages that he didn't look for that are more in demand than the one he looked for.

I don't know exactly how he handled only 'programmer' jobs for Dice.com ... but they've got 31 jobs that match 'perl'. Add that to the 3 from the other site, and we're looking at 4.4% (behind Python, above, C++, VB, TSQL, etc.

Of course, this is always going to be a point-in-time study. (I found 63 'Ruby' jobs (out of 745), which would put it at 8.4%, above his 7.2%) You really need to look at long-term trends. (and you need to make sure to not count the same jobs from week after week ... although the fact that they can't find someone to fill a job might be a sign that's skill's in more demand, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's good to learn that language if employability is your goal)

The really sad thing is that ASP is above Python (33+10=5.8%), and SQL's not on his list but mentioned in 27.8% (155+52) of the jobs. And Postgres (which he didn't check) has more mentions than Hadoop (which he did)

Or... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509791)

You could learn any other, better, language.

YouU fai2l it (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45509849)

To its laid-ba>ck

this FP for GNAA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45510177)

Department of redundancy department (1)

Cantankerous Cur (3435207) | about 8 months ago | (#45511281)

PHP at #5 (9.5%) in the fifth spot

I only know PHP, you insensitive clod.

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