Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Ask Slashdot: Are We Older Experts Being Retired Too Early?

Soulskill posted about a year ago | from the get-off-my-lawn dept.

Businesses 629

caferace writes "I've been around the block. I'm a long-time worker in the tech industry (nearly 30 years), absolutely kickass SQA and Hardware person, networking, you name it. But I'm 50+ now, and finding new regular or contract work is a pain. And it shouldn't be. I have the skills and the aptitude to absorb and adapt to any new situations and languages way beyond what any of my college age brethren might have. But when I send out a perfectly good resume and use the more obvious resources there are still precious few bites for someone requiring to work remotely. Am I just whining, or is this common? Are we being put out to pasture far too early?"

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Lie a little (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536287)

Don't put your age on the CV and knock off the first 10 years of experience. My father worked IT contract work till he retired at 64 by doing this.

Re:Lie a little (5, Interesting)

SumDog (466607) | about a year ago | (#45536325)

Age on a C.V?! Who does that. No one.. (and you shouldn't. Employers can't ask if you are married or your number of kids either. That can get you sued in many places).

We have a lot of older people where I work, some hired in. The trouble is we also get a lot of people who come through who've been in the same shop for 20 years and they think they know what they're doing, but when you ask them an SQL question they use a sequence of nested queries without any join statements. We get sysadmin who don't know how to map a network drive on the command line. We get people who want security jobs who can't answer, "What's the difference between a GET and a POST request?"

Another issue is that maybe shops are only looking to employ 40+ people in management positions, being team leads and architects. Maybe you hate that stuff and are looking for dev jobs and people are reluctant to hire you for that. The problem here lies in that most IT departments only have a pathway up the chain via management. For a lot of devs and admins, this isn't too bad and they can manage people fine. But there are those that really don't want to manage people, who hate it and there isn't really a pathway for people who just want to stay coding.

Finally, it could be that you're applying to all the wrong places where people do look down upon your for your age. They are probably shitty shops you didn't want to work for anyway. Are you willing to move? If not, you could also try short term contracts (3 ~ 8 months). There are a tons of those if you're willing to be away for a couple of months each year. You can also build up remote contracting opportunities this way too.

So to recap, you might be stuck in a city of discriminatory employers and it's not you, or you're looking for dev positions because that's what you love but people want your age group for management or ... you're not as good as you think you are and are bombing interviews.

Re:Lie a little (5, Insightful)

somersault (912633) | about a year ago | (#45536361)

But when I send out a perfectly good resume and use the more obvious resources there are still precious few bites for someone requiring to work remotely

How come nobody has commented on this part? No matter what age you are, requiring that you work remotely is going to make things difficult, no matter your age.

Re:Lie a little (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536417)

I understand this used to be a bit of a trend in the tech industry, but in the last few years, companies that used to encourage remote working and telecommuting have either discontinued the practice or are encouraging their workforce to spend significantly more time in a physical office.

Try being a bit more flexible in your old age.

Re:Lie a little (3, Interesting)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#45536507)

Just because two notable names have made a big deal about it doesn't mean there aren't still plenty of such positions. Asking someone to uproot their entire lives and move across the country to benefit you with their extensive knowledge and experience for work that absolutely does not require your on-site and on-hands presence far exceeds "flexibility".

Re:Lie a little (1)

somersault (912633) | about a year ago | (#45536443)

Looks like I'm getting old.. repeating myself, and saying the same thing twice..

Re:Lie a little (2)

BladeMelbourne (518866) | about a year ago | (#45536701)

Getting old is learning not to care what people think of your opinion or whether they heard you the first time.

The chances are... they don't (and shouldn't) care.

Re:Lie a little (5, Insightful)

ray-auch (454705) | about a year ago | (#45536503)

How come nobody has commented on this part? No matter what age you are, requiring that you work remotely is going to make things difficult, no matter your age.

Seconded. Not just "would like to work from home" but "requiring" - from the outset. I scanned the question in less time than scanning a CV and those words ("requiring to work remotely") jumped out - CV in the round filing thing in based on that alone, didn't even register the age range being complained about.

I've worked remotely in several jobs and contracts, but only after being on-site first and proving myself and establishing with the client / employer which parts of the work can be done remotely - and always being prepared to be on site when required. I am not even sure how you could work remotely doing hardware and networks - but certainly not going to find out by trialing someone who is not prepared to be on site.

At the end of the day, you are selling yourself with your CV and if no one is buying then you are selling the wrong thing or at the wrong price - and IMO "remote working only" is the wrong thing (unless you are an awful lot cheaper - i.e. India rates - and then it's usually the wrong thing but some people do buy...)

Re:Lie a little (2)

somersault (912633) | about a year ago | (#45536625)

I was thinking something similar. One of our new senior engineers wanted to work from home on Mondays and Fridays, but my employer agreed only on the condition that he work onsite full time for the first month to prove himself.

Re:Lie a little if you live in the bush! (0)

deviated_prevert (1146403) | about a year ago | (#45536731)

JUST MAYBE BECAUSE THE fellow lives in the bush out in the Aleutian peninsula and generates his electricity burning whale oil? OR maybe his internet by satellite is not fast enough to respond to the job offers in time? Could be all sorts of legitimate reasons why insisting on working remotely is causing employers to overlook his job inquiries. How many times have you had the dream of turning into a hermit when working on a .NET project. OR moving to Alaska.

Re:Lie a little (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536579)

Indeed. Here in Germany they expect contractors/consultants to be on-site in almost all instances.

Re:Lie a little (2)

cascadingstylesheet (140919) | about a year ago | (#45536469)

Finally, it could be that you're applying to all the wrong places where people do look down upon your for your age. They are probably shitty shops you didn't want to work for anyway.

This.

Hint, if at your interview or on a tour you pass a big room crammed with (inexpensive) youngin coders, all in lovely "open plan" office style, you're in the wrong place ...

Re:Lie a little (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536511)

The trouble is we also get a lot of people who come through who've been in the same shop for 20 years and they think they know what they're doing, but when you ask them an SQL question they use a sequence of nested queries without any join statements. We get sysadmin who don't know how to map a network drive on the command line.

Maybe a lot of the older folks are too arrogant and think they know enough or more then you and that is why few companies hire someone who has years of experience, skill, and knowledge. For them they want someone who they can customize to there company despite whether they can do the job properly. And this is the problem I have with forcing schools to teach IT. Very few are going to excel to a high level, despite education (ie college).

Having said the above about older IT workers, companies should be hiring the right ones that have what caferace, claims to have. They can add to a company, but if they are in, or were in, a position of management in there previous job/s, there experience will more then likely come with a higher pay grade so it maybe a move to hire cheaper younger folks.

IT jobs seem to a dime a dozen, compared to other occupations or professions..

Re:Lie a little (2)

ruir (2709173) | about a year ago | (#45536607)

I dont get why sometimes linked.in contacts ask for the CV, since my experience is already there. But reading your post, I had an aha moment, and suspect is to find the extra tidbits, like my age, without asking for it directly.

Re:Lie a little (2)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | about a year ago | (#45536617)

> Age on a C.V?! Who does that

This is one reason that they personnel departments ask for your college graduation date. Calculating age from that is pretty easy. Similar questions can be, and are, used to collect race, gender, religion, nationality, visa status, or medical issues that may affect your workplace behavior. This is true even in places that claim not to discriminate on these bases:, or where such discrimination is used illegally. Subconscious bias exists, even without directly citing it in the applicant review process.

Re:Lie a little (5, Insightful)

Mitreya (579078) | about a year ago | (#45536745)

they think they know what they're doing, but when you ask them an SQL question they use a sequence of nested queries without any join statements.

And what exactly is wrong with that?

Query optimizer will generally convert a nested query into a join when necessary. And for a non-correlated nested query (and possibly some particularly shaped indexes) nesting is probably a better answer to begin with.

Re:Lie a little (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#45536599)

I don't know why you'd put your age on your resume, but it doesn't matter, anyway. It's a trivial matter (and probably a required practice) to find your Facebook, G+, Twitter, Youtube, LinkedIn and other accounts online and derive from them your approximate age, marital status, home ownership, prior work history, education, health, financial status, and so on.

Your not alone (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536295)

Myself and my wife are in the same boat, and I know at least 2 others who are.

I've also found those I know who HAVE been successful in securing a position, generally get the raw end of the stick, they get pushed into corners and treat like robots that are there just to do the stuff no one else wants, so even when they do get in their skill set is largely ignored.

Re:Your not alone (5, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#45536519)

I don't understand how this happens. Are these people not social? Are they not assertive? Do they not push back? I'm a few years away from 40, so I don't think I qualify for that range just yet, but the people I work with who are a good deal older than me are aggressive in voicing their disagreements, pointing out where things are fucked, not accepting shitty practices, and pushing for things to be corrected. They don't sit quietly by while products, processes, or themselves are screwed. Where the younger guys may be timid, the more seasoned among them will firmly tell you your shit is fucked and encourage you (and help, if needed) to unfuck it.

Re:Your not alone (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536605)

There are plenty of companies who value experience. Young people might have tons of energy, but little experience. In other words, big muscles and little brain.

But of course everybody needs to be aware of politics. Sometimes it is time to shut up. But older guys should be experienced in this kind of "social" stuff.

Potty mouth (-1, Troll)

jabberw0k (62554) | about a year ago | (#45536663)

You seem to have a problem with profanity in a public forum, perhaps you are overly stressed? Please let's keep it clean here.

Re:Potty mouth (1, Informative)

Wootery (1087023) | about a year ago | (#45536785)

No, you seem to have a problem with profanity in a public forum.

Please let's keep it clean here.

I see no convincing argument for this. Your prudishness is your issue, not Seumas's.

Re:Potty mouth (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536801)

Thanks Mom, for helping to clean up the internet. Maybe you should mind your own fucking business and ignore objectionable things yourself, rather than project your ideals onto the rest of us. Asshole.

30 years? (1, Flamebait)

Max Threshold (540114) | about a year ago | (#45536305)

You've been in the biz thirty years and you're not retired retired? C'mon. I've been at it for one year, at two-thirds the average starting pay, and I'm looking at becoming an artist/gardener/eccentric recluse in three or four years. (Granted, I live in a $34,000 home in one of the lowest cost-of-living cities in the US... but that's all part of the plan.)

Re:30 years? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536329)

children?

Re:30 years? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536341)

You've been in the biz thirty years and you're not retired retired? C'mon. I've been at it for one year, at two-thirds the average starting pay, and I'm looking at becoming an artist/gardener/eccentric recluse in three or four years. (Granted, I live in a $34,000 home in one of the lowest cost-of-living cities in the US... but that's all part of the plan.)

I see.

I take it...no wait, this is Slashdot. I automatically assume all those usual expenses that befall other men that stem from having a girlfriend or wife you are devoid of.

In case you hadn't noticed, women are the most expensive thing on the planet.

Re:30 years? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536377)

In case you hadn't noticed, women are the most expensive thing on the planet.

Sometimes, supply and demand is quite literally a bitch.

Re:30 years? (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about a year ago | (#45536403)

In case you hadn't noticed, women are the most expensive thing on the planet.

Sometimes, supply and demand is quite literally a bitch.

Quite literally? ..... But bestiality is illegal in many countries.

Re:30 years? (4, Insightful)

serviscope_minor (664417) | about a year ago | (#45536683)

In case you hadn't noticed, women are the most expensive thing on the planet.

Who the fuck modded this shit insightful. My SO earns more than I do, so the net cost is negative. Try treating women as fellow people rather than whatever weirdass thing you've made them up to be in your mind.

Re:30 years? (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#45536531)

Of course, that comes with the need for working remotely, doesn't it? Those ridiculously low-priced homes in low-cost areas are generally so, because there's not much of a job market, there. People always ask why I've lived in such expensive cities my whole life (San Francisco, Portland, Denver) and the answer is "because that is where the high tech jobs are most abundantly found". I would love to have moved into the middle of fucking-nowhere Kansas where my significant other once bought a gorgeous home for under $100k, but then I'd be subjected to the limitations of that job market, too. (Even though I've telecommuted nearly my whole life, businesses are often constrained by the states they do work in as to where they can employ people -- unless you are truly contracting yourself out).

That's also why working remotely should be seen as an attractive benefit, by employers. The same way health insurance and other things are. I have turned down significantly better paying gigs over the last decade, simply because an extra $20k or so does not compensate for the need to own a car, spend hours every day in it, deal with water-cooler bullshit, and exist under flickering fluorescent lights in a crowded office.

No (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536307)

Just die already.

Yeah, the industry is ageist. (1)

Joining Yet Again (2992179) | about a year ago | (#45536309)

But so are most industries. Few people want to work with someone much more experienced than them, unless they lack the competitive streak - no more so than IT, an industry full of insecure autodidacts who are often more mouth than trousers.

The American Dream (4, Interesting)

Ozoner (1406169) | about a year ago | (#45536313)

Sadly your experience is common. The older you get, the harder it is to find work.

So in your last decade or so, instead of saving for your retirement, you end up chewing through what little savings you have,

It's called the "American Dream".

Re:The American Dream (3, Insightful)

Z00L00K (682162) | about a year ago | (#45536433)

Employers are scared of hiring someone with more experience than they have themselves because they are afraid that you will take over the company.

At the same time young employees keeps repeating mistakes made already by programmers that were around in the 70's, 80's and 90's.

Re:The American Dream (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536615)

THIS.

you have to be asleep to believe it ! (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536453)

"George Carlin famously wrote the joke "it's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it".

Carlin pointed to "the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions" as having a greater influence than an individual's choice."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream [wikipedia.org]

They can get someone younger for much less pay.... (2)

DiSKiLLeR (17651) | about a year ago | (#45536315)

They can get someone younger for much less pay.... and that's basically, it.

You pay for experience, and employers don't want to pay for yours.

Re:They can get someone younger for much less pay. (5, Insightful)

myowntrueself (607117) | about a year ago | (#45536335)

They can get someone younger for much less pay.... and that's basically, it.

You pay for experience, and employers don't want to pay for yours.

Exactly. Hire someone half your age, pay them half as much, make them work twice as hard until they are an age and have enough experience where they start expecting pay rises then fire them and hire youngsters again. Its almost a fiduciary responsibility.

Re:They can get someone younger for much less pay. (2)

cascadingstylesheet (140919) | about a year ago | (#45536473)

Exactly. Hire someone half your age, pay them half as much, make them work twice as hard until they are an age and have enough experience where they start expecting pay rises then fire them and hire youngsters again. Its almost a fiduciary responsibility.

And it's usually stupid ... when coders have no business knowledge, it takes at least twice as long in the end to get them to code the right stuff. So you don't save anything.

Re:They can get someone younger for much less pay. (1)

TheDarkMaster (1292526) | about a year ago | (#45536713)

Very true. But CEOs are the last people you should expect to realize this.

Re:They can get someone younger for much less pay. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536647)

That only works in the world of MBA muppets. In the REAL world, experience is much more valuable than the 2x or 3x you need to pay for an experienced guy.

I keep hearing the "best developers are younger than 35 bullshit", but the truth is that the best software engineers need at least 15 years of experience and they need a proper CS degree. So, proper software engineering starts at age 38 at least.

Of course this all depends on context. Some companies have simpler stuff than others do. Google and Boeing have different needs compared to Coca-Cola or McDonalds. But even the latter corporations often have experienced and well-paid people in their corporate IT functions.

Re:FTFY (5, Insightful)

scsirob (246572) | about a year ago | (#45536371)

They *THINK* they can get someone younger for much less pay.
And they *THINK* they will get all the experience from that younger person too.

What sets us "old farts" apart from the younger folks is that when we started, computers, software and infrastructure weren't half as complex as they are today. And we have seen it all grow. With that, we still know what happens under the hood. We still recognize a failing harddisk, a bad memory problem, a network routing issue etc, when the young guys just see their mouse, tablet or app not doing what they expect. The young folks know where to look when things work. We know where to look when things fail. Employers do not recognize that until they are hit by disaster.

Re:FTFY (2)

Chrisq (894406) | about a year ago | (#45536415)

They *THINK* they can get someone younger for much less pay. And they *THINK* they will get all the experience from that younger person too.

What sets us "old farts" apart from the younger folks is that when we started, computers, software and infrastructure weren't half as complex as they are today. And we have seen it all grow. With that, we still know what happens under the hood. We still recognize a failing harddisk, a bad memory problem, a network routing issue etc, when the young guys just see their mouse, tablet or app not doing what they expect. The young folks know where to look when things work. We know where to look when things fail. Employers do not recognize that until they are hit by disaster.

Interestingly we have a number of young-ish programmers who do get that ... and all of them come from Poland. They put it down to having to cobble together systems from whatever was available during their education!

Re:FTFY (2)

Splab (574204) | about a year ago | (#45536489)

The problem with Polish workforce is they are getting expensive, the new kids on the block are Romanian, Macedonian, Ukrainian. Although same applies - and on top of them being down right brilliant, they have a work mentality that trumps most westerners.

Re:FTFY (1)

Joce640k (829181) | about a year ago | (#45536493)

They *THINK* they can get someone younger for much less pay.
And they *THINK* they will get all the experience from that younger person too.

That *IS* the problem, yes.

Re:FTFY (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536565)

They *THINK* they can get someone younger for much less pay.

And they *THINK* they will get all the experience from that younger person too.

No, they really don't give a rats ass about all that experience. Quarterly-report driven businesses are racing to the bottom of the skills pool, trying to find the least qualified, lowest cost cog that will not cause their business to implode. This leads to the condition where older workers overvalue their experience. For example, many of them think it's important to be able to diagnose a failed/failing subsystem, when it's really cheaper just to replace the whole kit.

Re:FTFY (5, Informative)

Cwix (1671282) | about a year ago | (#45536729)

What a load of BS.

As a 30 year old admin I can tell you right now that I can easily diag failing hard drives, memory sticks and yes even network issues..

If you think that you need many many years of experience to do this you are not nearly as talented as you seem to want to make yourself out to be. Go look in the mirror, if your crowning achievement is being able to diag simple hardware problems, then maybe the issue with you getting hired has more to do with your inexperience and not your age.

Re:They can get someone younger for much less pay. (2)

Splab (574204) | about a year ago | (#45536441)

Half? Not even close. We are currently hiring, we prefer local work force, someone who shows up each day, someone we can talk to. Local salary is in the $80.000 range. However, if we are looking for someone working remotely, they are up against quite qualified eastern block workers, whom clock in at $12.000-15.000.

If I have to deal with remote workers, I'd go for the cheaper option.

Aging workforce (4, Interesting)

iLLucionist (956046) | about a year ago | (#45536319)

As a I-O psychologist and researcher, this is fairly common. A lot of stereotypes are misattributed to the "older worker" and it happens a lot. In this world, organisations almost exclusively focus on attracting "young talent". Yet they fail to understand that older workers are far more experienced. Amongst misunderstandings is the notion that older workers would be (a) untrainable (b) too expensive (c) not creative, and (d) not flexible enough to adapt. This is all ruled out by research, but you know how it works with research. That's just "theory" and management wants "practice". So in short, you are not alone. As a matter of fact, there is a whole psychological discipline devoted towards this, called the "aging workforce".

Re:Aging workforce (4, Insightful)

Anne Thwacks (531696) | about a year ago | (#45536385)

Actually, its as simple as no one wants to hire someone lder than themselves - they would feel uncomfortable giving orders

combined with no one wants to hire someone that obviously knows more than they do.

Yes I know its a recipe for a train wreck - have you not watched any large projects lately (cough @&#4care).

Re:Aging workforce (2)

iLLucionist (956046) | about a year ago | (#45536407)

Agreed. Status plays a major role too. Oh, and hiding incompetence of course. Happened to me once where I had to tell my boss that his data analysis was not sound and he was drawing wrong inferences from data. The stare I got back was enough to realise it was time to pack my stuff.

Re:Aging workforce (1)

Kneo24 (688412) | about a year ago | (#45536435)

Granted this is anecdotal evidence and could be more of a sign of our interviewing and hiring practices, but I often find for skilled positions the younger workers tend to typically be the better choice.

Here's why:
More often than not, the older works have the jargon, have the theory, and can talk your ear off about all day long. When it comes down to being motivated enough to apply it, they either can't or just don't care. Furthermore, when you do try to work with them to make things better, it's met with resistance. I see this more with the older crowd than I do the younger crowd.

The younger crowd tends to know nothing, but are typically willing to learn. If you're willing to learn, I will teach you and mold you.

I think the sweet spot are the experienced workers who haven't hit the burn out stage yet. Now that I think about it, this is probably what has happened with the older crowd - they are burned out. They need the money to survive, but previous jobs have all but crushed them.

Non-skilled positions? Don't bother going for the young guys. They get bored easily and want to goof off all day. Older people who take these jobs need the money, understand the value of hard work, and typically are willing to learn.

We do sometimes find people of each generation who don't fit what we normally see. It's rare, but it happens.

Re:Aging workforce (0)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#45536577)

So the older crowd are stubborn, set in their ways, and lazy -- and probably challenge the young people that you admit know nothing and have no experience for good reason.

And the young people are inexperienced and ignorant, but (when not hanging out on facebook, twitter, or instagramming everything around them in the office) hard workers that can be shaped, molded, and educated. . . . by . . . the . . . older people that aren't there to mentor them?

The world of technology does not seem one where this ageist bullshit can adequately be implemented. This is a field where people from the youngest who aren't even in high school yet to the oldest who was working before a time of personal PCs invent and improve things on a frequent basis and are *in the business* of wanting to know about new things. This isn't a field where people bitch and moan about how these new-fangled sparky-mabobs aren't as good as working on an old IBM Selectronic typewriter.

I work with plenty of people in their 40s, 50s, and 60s and they are the hardest workers who know the most, spend the most time on the clock, are the most available, the most communicative, and stay on top of their game. In my time, I can only really thing of one much older person who really sort of had the "punching the timeclock" mentality -- and even he was more than proficient at the job.

On the other hand, I have been surrounded by people my age (increasing over the years, obviously) who couldn't really be bothered half the time. If you are concerned with age and pay, you are focusing on the wrong values of your potential workforce.

Re:Aging workforce (5, Funny)

antifoidulus (807088) | about a year ago | (#45536463)

As a I-O psychologist and researcher

I am just imagining you sitting on a couch, talking to a hard disk:

You: Well Mr. Hard Disk, how are you feeling?
Hard disk:Doc, I tell you my head feels like its constantly spinning in circles, and I am afraid something might come unhinged and I'll crash!

Re:Aging workforce (1)

iLLucionist (956046) | about a year ago | (#45536481)

That used to be the case, until SSDs came out and I became irrelevant. Damn SSDs took my market!

Re:Aging workforce (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536587)

FYI the correct grammar is "As an I-O psychologist..."

Re:Aging workforce (1)

rmstar (114746) | about a year ago | (#45536811)

In this world, organisations almost exclusively focus on attracting "young talent". Yet they fail to understand that older workers are far more experienced. Amongst misunderstandings is the notion that older workers would be (a) untrainable (b) too expensive (c) not creative, and (d) not flexible enough to adapt. This is all ruled out by research, but you know how it works with research. That's just "theory" and management wants "practice".

I hear that theory quite often, but I've been wondering why The Market does not correct that at least to some extent. Now, I'm far from being a free market taliban, but markets kind of work, sort of. One way of rephrasing what you are saying is that companies are leaving money on the table by hiring people without the experience required. We live in a world where people use whatever crazy idea they can to have an edge, but hiring older workers is an obvious trick that somehow no one does. How can that be?

(Disclosure: I'm well beyond my twenties)

Remote working (4, Informative)

Bert64 (520050) | about a year ago | (#45536321)

Wanting to work remotely is probably putting potential employers off too... A lot of people can't understand how someone can work remotely, and just assume they're sitting around playing games all day. They would rather see you sitting at a desk so they think you're working, even if you might be sitting there using slashdot all day.

Re:Remote working (1)

rioki (1328185) | about a year ago | (#45536401)

"even if you might be sitting there using slashdot all day"

That would be nice, but Slashdot unfortunately can not fill an entire work day...

Re: Remote working (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536535)

... anymore!

Re:Remote working (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536611)

You obviously haven't seen my work day.

Presenteeism (4, Interesting)

CaptainOfSpray (1229754) | about a year ago | (#45536339)

You require to work remotely? Most managers cannot stand that - if you aren't there in the office so they can see that you are working, you must be goofing off, you cannot possibly be working. Judge you by your results? They wouldn't know how to do that, and they are far too harrassed/unimaginative/untrained to work out a method of doing it.

I've been in IT for more than 40 years, a contractor for the last twenty. In all that time, I have once had one contract that allowed me to work from home, and then it was just one day a week - and even then, in the middle of the contract, they tried to change it to all five days a week.

Re:Presenteeism (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536461)

You require to work remotely? Most managers cannot stand that - if you aren't there in the office so they can see that you are working, you must be goofing off, you cannot possibly be working. Judge you by your results? They wouldn't know how to do that, and they are far too harrassed/unimaginative/untrained to work out a method of doing it.

I've been in IT for more than 40 years, a contractor for the last twenty. In all that time, I have once had one contract that allowed me to work from home, and then it was just one day a week - and even then, in the middle of the contract, they tried to change it to all five days a week.

There are many, many common-sense reasons to support users or contractors working from home. There are very few reasons not to. Those reasons are usually brought forth by unintelligent or old-fashioned management. After 25 years in the industry, it's nice to finally replace some of that mentality, and be put in a position to support remote workers.

(FYI, a good portion of my management has been there over 30 years, so don't give me that excuse either. They support it, because I convinced them it was possible.)

And we can take Marissa Meyer's hypocritical attitude towards working remotely it as an outlier at best. She isn't leading the charge standing on an island with that attitude.

Re:Presenteeism (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536677)

As always, different approaches for different problems. There are projects/phases which need very tight collaboration. And that is clearly achieved by putting people in a single room or at least a single building.

Then there are more solitary projects/phases were remote working clearly is an option.

So maybe you could look at the other side of the coin, so to speak.

Re:Presenteeism (2)

ray-auch (454705) | about a year ago | (#45536705)

There are many, many common-sense reasons to support users or contractors working from home. There are very few reasons not to. Those reasons are usually brought forth by unintelligent or old-fashioned management. After 25 years in the industry, it's nice to finally replace some of that mentality, and be put in a position to support remote workers.

If all-remote works for you that's great, but then from a business point of view you just solved all your problems with offshoring - you can now send the work anywhere, so why wouldn't you send it offshore at 10% of the price ? I'd much rather have a role where it was essential to be on-site - that's where my value is.

Too Expensive (1)

HansKloss (665474) | about a year ago | (#45536347)

New trend.
Junior and medium IT positions are being replaced by students doing internships or minimum wage apprenticeship.
I noticed that working for US and UK companies.
Suddenly everybody wants to hire people fresh out of college or even before graduation.
Older workers are too expensive. It doesn't matter if this cause some hiccups for company, balance sheet is more important.

Publish freeware and help migrations (4, Interesting)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | about a year ago | (#45536349)

As an older engineer, I've found that helping out the youngsters with their freeware and bringing lesons learned decades ago is rewarding, and professionally helpful. I can name at least 3 freeware or open source projects that I've been involved with for more than 10 years that get me recruiting calls from other countries. Very very few people have that much experience with it, my name has been in the developer mailing lists for that long, and I've done it as a matter of technical interest. Put those on your CV.

Also, companies that are migrating from older to newer platforms may welcome people who've worked extensively with both. As I've become older I've become the "local reference" for the older technologies. Simply having a hint of what the differences might be can same hundreds of man-hours of labor porting software or keeping the old system alive during the migration.

welcome (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536383)

to the Obamaconomy

You're done when you're 50 (if not 40) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536387)

Being in my late 30's, I really wonder when I'll have to face the issue of being too old for technical jobs. I really notice that by skills and mindset are old-fashioned for today's measures. Sure, I adapt, but can I adapt fast enough to survive 40 years in technology ?

Re:You're done when you're 50 (if not 40) (1)

Seumas (6865) | about a year ago | (#45536597)

There's only so much reasonable adaptation to be done. Nobody with a full time job can "keep up" with the technology that someone whose most recent full time job was four years of keeping up on latest buzzword technology. There's annually a fresh batch of people that just spent four years doing that. However, I don't see how hard it can be for people to stay abreast of things within their own field. For the majority of us, shit isn't changing *that* damn fast. I mean, unless you're in the "buzzword, venture capital, ycombinator" business, I guess.

On Covert Acoustical Mesh Networks in Air (RE: Bad (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536429)

On Covert Acoustical Mesh Networks in Air (RE: Bad Bios)

"Abstract-Covert channels can be used to circumvent system and network policies by establishing communications that have not been considered in the design of the computing system. We construct a covert channel between different computing systems that utilizes audio modulation/demodulation to exchange data between the computing systems over the air medium. The underlying network stack is based on a communication system that was originally designed for robust underwater communication. We adapt the communication system to implement covert and stealthy communications by utilizing the near ultrasonic frequency range.

We further demonstrate how the scenario of covert acoustical communication over the air medium can be extended to multi-hop communications and even to wireless mesh networks. A covert acoustical mesh network can be conceived as a botnet or malnet that is accessible via nearfield audio communications. Different applications of covert acoustical mesh networks are presented, including the use for remote keylogging over multiple hops. It is shown that the concept of a covert acoustical mesh network renders many conventional security concepts useless, as acoustical communications are usually not considered. Finally, countermeasures against covert acoustical mesh networks are discussed, including the use of lowpass filtering in computing systems and a host-based intrusion detection system for analyzing audio input and output in order to detect any irregularities."

Index Terms-malware, network covert channels, wireless mesh networks, ultrasonic communication

Cite: Michael Hanspach and Michael Goetz, "On Covert Acoustical Mesh Networks in Air," Journal of Communications, vol. 8, no. 11, pp. 758-767, 2013. doi: 10.12720/jcm.8.11.758-767"

Volume 8, No. 11, November 2013

http://www.jocm.us/uploadfile/2013/1125/20131125103803901.pdf [www.jocm.us]
http://www.jocm.us/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=show&catid=124&id=600 [www.jocm.us]
http://www.jocm.us/index.php?m=content&c=index&a=lists&catid=124 [www.jocm.us]

##

RE: #BadBios, BadBios, badbios, bad bios

It's a sad truth... (5, Interesting)

ImOuttaHere (2996813) | about a year ago | (#45536431)

After 30 years working in software engineering and program management, I was turfed. The company I worked for had been acquired by a huge rollup company. We all knew what we coming, and come it did.

I survived eight layoffs and got caught in the ninth, four years after the takeover. This, even though I helped bring the kinds of technologies and software engineering talent that helped generate hundreds of millions of dollars a year in bottom line revenue.

In my case, the company had decided to ship manufacturing (a common "given") and engineering (something that surprised many of us) to China. The only thing the new company was interested in was increasing the value of the "leadership's" stock options. They didn't care what they acquired, just so long as they could strip assets and downsize and ship jobs offshore to fatten the bottom line. They honestly believed that what few jobs that were left in the US could be picked up by young engineers coming out of college. Cheap labor, right? Wrong. Particularly when they don't yet know enough and have no experience in highly specialized electronics and software solutions.

I wish I could find it, but I remember reading a German study that showed us old folks are more productive in a 24 hour work week than new or middle-aged workers working 35.5+hours a week. I know we older folks can really crank out the work, manage and maintain revenue generating business relationships, and can help the rich bastards make even more money than they already are if they'd keep us around, but...

Trans-national corporations, banks, and businesses really don't care how they generate their money and no one, not one single organization is upholding labor law that might, just might, hold these rogues accountable.

I've been looking for a job for over two years now. I can't believe the US job market is as tough as it has turned out to be. We hate to suffer like this, but I feel too old, that I know too much, and I'm too damned expensive for korporate Amerika. Too bad labor isn't organized and won't stand up for each other. It's every person for themselves, or so it seems to me.

Re:It's a sad truth... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536665)

...Too bad labor isn't organized and won't stand up for each other. It's every person for themselves, or so it seems to me.

I feel for you.

And they did try and organize labor. It's called a Union.

It's also partly responsible for why we're in this mess.

Re:It's a sad truth... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536721)

Man, you really need some good advice, and here it comes, for free: Don't agonize over that ONE employer. They are probably simply idiots. Try to forget them.

Focus on getting a new job somewhere else. Fire out resumes and in your free time, participate in an open source project. Learn new stuff: Linux, C++, Android, Hadoop. Put yourself online on XING and LinkedIn. Every single skill, list it on these site. Every single project.

Again, forget that corporation. You were not married to them, they were neither your parents nor your kids. You can hate them; but channel that hate into advertising yourself and getting a new job.

In short: Life is a bitch, get over that one episode. Welcome to the realities of the Free Enterprise System. Did you ever think all your first-world luxuries come for free ? Did you really ? Did you think your god gave you a better life than he gave to a Chinese man ???

Re:It's a sad truth... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536789)

How about a website with contact info?
I bet you can get an offer within 3 weeks if you're willing to relocate.
I know a company with dozens of openings and age 30 is young.
Some of the guys are pushing 70.

Entrepreneurship (1)

wjcofkc (964165) | about a year ago | (#45536449)

With your level of expertise and experience, you should consider starting your own business. I realize it's not that simple: you have to have an idea for a business before you can start one, and that's difficult. I suggest regular brain storming sessions involving a notebook and a pin. You are at a point in your life where you may as well completely re-invent yourself.

More to the point of your question: If you are leading off with telecommuting as a requirement, that's going to get your resume tossed more frequently than not. If you are not applying for a job that explicitly states telecommuting as a requirement, leave it off of your resume - you need to start getting your foot in through some doors - start getting interviews and ask about telecommuting then. Just as a tip, I suggest re-writing your entire resume in a fashion tailored to each individual position and company - just don't get them mixed up.

Re:Entrepreneurship (2)

Ozoner (1406169) | about a year ago | (#45536501)

> With your level of expertise and experience, you should consider starting your own business.

And you know what percentage of new business survive?

This is part two of the "American Dream"

Re:Entrepreneurship (1)

wjcofkc (964165) | about a year ago | (#45536537)

Aren't you a wet blanket. Yes, it takes daring confidence to start your own business. While most new business fail, some don't. Some even go on to become large companies. The modern "American Dream" is not a freebie, and in general the idea of it never has been. It takes a sense of adventure and a willingness to step outside of your comfort zone. It sounds like your saying no one should take the risk of starting their own business. Where would we get new businesses and the innovation that follows?

It sounds like you are neither daring nor confident while lacking a sense of adventure. Enjoy your comfort zone.

Re: Entrepreneurship (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536595)

Tailoring, or trying to, your resume/cv to a particular job is a recipe for disaster.

If you are not competent enough to write a document that sells you in the first page, and drives the deal home by the end of the second then you should consider going back to school, seriously.

I recruit software engineers. Often we use more than one recruiter because there are several positions. If I receive two different resumes from the same person I immediately bin them because I know I can't trust that person to make an honest assesment/teport. You tried to twist facts just to get the job. How will you be when I hire you?

Some resume tips from someone who employs engineers:
1. I dont care how many buzzwords and acronyms you cram onto the page.
2. I care that you can provide a coherent description of your job roles and what that enatiled, including the skills you needed to use and the outcomes you achieved.
3. If it takes more than 3 short paragraphs to describe the key points of any previous employment your communication skills are too lacking to hire you.
4. Only people with no demonstrable skill list things like "fast learner" or "motivated" or "demonstrated ability in .*". They list that crap because they can't summarise their experience in a way which implies it.
5. Having 20 years of experience with a 5year old technology tells me you are full of shit.

If you want to get a job, try being honest in your resume. Know your limits and be prepared to admit them with your faults.

Re: Entrepreneurship (1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536799)

Tailoring your resume to a job is not the same as lying. As a Computer Engineer, I work hardware and software systems. If I want a software position, I am going to tailor the resume to software, highlight all my skills and maybe tone down the hardware ones. If I am trying to get a Database development contract, why the hell do I want to make all the electrical and robotics engineering projects front and center. Same with Hardware, why do I want to highlight my years of experience working on any number of languages and software packages when I can make my PLC, robot, FPGA, and microcontroller experience front and center?

No dishonesty involved.

missing monkey hymens signal failing process (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536475)

i flip the switch the light goes on don't ask me why. never a better time to consult with momkind our spiritual centerpeace,

free the innocent stem cells etc....

Want to work remotely only? (1)

angel'o'sphere (80593) | about a year ago | (#45536513)

I guess your problem is not your age but the fact that you want to work remotely only (if I understood you correctly).

If it is indeed age, come to europe, especially germany. Good software engineers are seeked desperately.

You require remote work? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536533)

Yeah. No. it's not your age.

If we're going for people who can only work remotely. Well guess what... habib in india is remote too. and he costs WAY WAY less than you do.

Re:You require remote work? (3, Interesting)

Arker (91948) | about a year ago | (#45536581)

I think you are wrong.

Yes, there are a few Habibs in India that charge more than I do, and are worth it. They have advanced degrees in mathematics and are actually capable of doing work over my head.

The ones that are competing for my job? I could trounce 99/100 of them in less than 5 minutes on any subject. They get work because it is cheaper to let them work on the job for an hour and THEN escalate to me when they still cant figure it out. And expect me to clean up not only the original problem but all the damage the overseas tech did as well, in less than 20 minutes.

Since I can do that and they cannot, my job remains relatively secure.

That said, obviously requiring remote work limits the options quite a bit. I know I could easily make 3x my current salary if I would move to some urban hellhole, but most of the raise would go to higher cost of living, and quality would go down, so why would I be tempted?

It may be common but it still sounds like whining (5, Insightful)

slim-t (578136) | about a year ago | (#45536541)

Anytime you describe yourself as "kickass," you come off as a jerk. Then you demand to work remotely. Surely there are people out there with adequate skills, who aren't jerks and will show up at the office once in a while.

Re:It may be common but it still sounds like whini (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536715)

Anytime you describe yourself as "kickass," you come off as a jerk. Then you demand to work remotely. Surely there are people out there with adequate skills, who aren't jerks and will show up at the office once in a while.

If he's got a "kickass" resume, then perhaps the attitude has been vetted.

Usually those with "demands" can justify it.

And if you're only looking for "adequate" workers, then stop bitching and hire college interns at $10/hour. "Average" labor is everywhere. And cheap. If you're looking for excellent or superior work, then quit bitching and pull our your wallet there, Director. They certainly pay you enough to sit there and look pretty.

little miss dna cannot be wrong (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536551)

the truth about us will make us much better off in time. why all the fuss we have no secrets we tell each other everything.

free the innocent stem cells etc...

It's not just you (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536571)

It has nothing to do with your age. It's called an economic depression. It occurs from about 2001 onwards. There is no known, reliable solution.

Work from home ? No. (1)

vikingpower (768921) | about a year ago | (#45536573)

That is a tough one both for 20-ers and 50-ers or 60-ers. For the rest of TFA, you have a point. At some point in my career ( recently ), I simply decided to never retire. As a software engineer, I had the best idea of my career only last summer, and I am 46. Plenty of potential ahead.

Re:Work from home ? No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536807)

Was the idea the same as in the movie office space?

Opinion (5, Interesting)

DaMattster (977781) | about a year ago | (#45536621)

As a small business owner in IT managed services, age absolutely does NOT matter to me. I'm more interested in a person's willingness to continue to learn and not stay stagnant. If you are in your 80s and have continued to learn on your own and want to stay engaged, I can do the heavy lifting ... that's no problem, welcome aboard. Attitude, experience, and wisdom trump youth every time. My marketing director is 25 years older than I am and I can constantly learn from him because he stays on the cutting edge and subscribes to lifelong learning. My brother has a mechanical engineer on his payroll that is 92 years old and is an extremely talented and creative guy. He can design something on paper in a mere fraction of the time it would take a lesser experienced engineer to do. Don't ever make the mistake of judging someone on age - judge on attitudes.

Like yourself much? (4, Insightful)

ledow (319597) | about a year ago | (#45536633)

Why wouldn't I hire you?

"absolutely kickass SQA and Hardware person, networking, you name it"

"I have the skills and the aptitude to absorb and adapt to any new situations and languages way beyond what any of my college age brethren might have."

"a perfectly good resume" (just sounds so snarky)

and critically: "someone requiring to work remotely"

Get off your high horse, write a plain CV/resume (omit your age if you really feel you need to) and apply for "normal" jobs, not telecommuting jobs.

Who wants to hire a blow-his-own-trumpet, big-head, nearly-retired, remote worker? Nobody.

That said, as you get older your skills mean less. If you have 20 years or 30 years experience, which is "better"? There's not much to choose between them. If you had nothing versus even 1 year's experience it makes a big difference. Hence as you age, your experience means less. It's almost a bell curve, in fact. After a while you "know" so much that you have to be retrained to do things "our" way.

And the job market is tough no matter what your age or experience. Many places can't afford people at all, let alone top-end salary highly-experienced people. That said, I've never paid attention to "the market" and always just applied for things I like and never had a problem finding work (in fact, the opposite... I'm currently holding off applying for permanent jobs, after resigning from my job of 5 years, in order to be ready for a good place that are determined to hire me and have offers coming in from all sorts of places).

Also, in my experience, if you're good the work finds you. I'm socially inept but this networking thing really gets you work like nothing else. I spent 10+ years just going from client to client based on word of mouth and NOTHING else. I'm not "the best", by far, but I'm good at what I do and learn quick on what I don't.

You're willing to adapt and learn, so do so. With the recruitment process as well as the types of jobs you go for. Apply for damn near anything in your area of expertise and stop being so picky about YOUR requirements. If you were so good, the jobs would be finding you, not the other way around.

Honestly, you're just like everyone else looking for work. You can either put in the graft and find the job you want by spending MONTHS looking for it, or you can drift from job to unemployment to job as and when something comes up that "suits" you.

Re:Like yourself much? (2)

Chrisq (894406) | about a year ago | (#45536661)

Many places can't afford people at all, let alone top-end salary highly-experienced people.

That wouldn't be so bad if the same company couldn't easily find the money for as many project managers as programers, odd roles like "Human resources diversity manager", a "director's assistant PA" (as well as director's PA) and a chauffeur.

Remoting would be a problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536687)

Many employers probably want to know who they are working with personally. They may not be technically savvy and need to know they can trust you. If they don't already know you personally, working remotely is gonna be a problem.

I D A 4 U (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536691)

Give your age in Roman numerals. Nobody reads those anymore.

am I too old If.. (0)

gl4ss (559668) | about a year ago | (#45536695)

..I'm tired of the 4 times a year post on slashdot about "buuhuu I'm older can I get a job".

I don't think the poster understands "retired" either.

being out of job whilst you need a job is not being retired.. it's just being unemployed. maybe go abroad or some shit like that. I'm trying out holing up the winter in Thailand right now doing some work. getting paid less than in Finland but eh, it's a job and the money leftover after taxes and expenses is more than back home.

oh and wtf is sqa? some old name for "Testing"?(software quality assurance? if you're kick ass in that then maybe you would be better off working for a client and not a dev house..)

maybe try being a developer instead and don't spit on technology someone wants to pay to have developers for..

Yes, you're just being whiney (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536723)

As someone also in that age bracket, I can tell you there are lots of senior level jobs out there that pay very well for someone with lots of experience (like us). Turning away job opportunities is a regular thing for me. You need to do 2 things to turn this around completely:
1) Stop saying you must work remotely. You should be even more flexible than the 30 somethings out there.
2) Get (and stay) current on the latest tech in your field.

Do that, and you'll be beating back the recruiters with a stick. I think my age is a significant advantage over the young guys, and apparently a lot of employers agree with me. Now, if I were to try to change specialties and start over, that would be tough for sure, but keeping current in my field puts me so far ahead of the young candidates they can literally never catch up, even with my mentoring and training. Want to prove you know something completely? Offer to teach it to the rest of the team.

ORP1 - An Open Router Project (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536749)

ORP1 is a secure, high speed networking device that maintains your online privacy simply, across all the devices in your home.

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/orp1-an-open-router-project [indiegogo.com]

"ORP1 - an Open Router Project
ORP1 is a high performance networking router that allows you to run a firewall, IPSec VPN (virtual private network) and a TOR server for your home network. Its easy-to-use web interface will make encrypted and anonymised communications for your entire network easier to set up and manage. Now you donâ(TM)t need to be a geek to be able to ensure that every device you use at home uses the internet with privacy, whether itâ(TM)s your home PC, smartphone or tablet.

Why is the ORP1 device important? Unlike routers from other security vendors who have been caught helping government surveillance of their customers, the ORP1 hardware and software is open source to provide a system that you can trust - thereâ(TM)s no government-mandated back door for snooping.

ORP1 is a powerful networking platform which is a big step forward from other home networking routers, because its hardware and software is being purpose-built on open source hardware and software for high performance, privacy, and ease of use.

Who should use an ORP1? If youâ(TM)re an infosec geek, a journalist or activist who needs to ensure privacy of your communications, or just someone who wants no-fuss networking in your home which keeps your internet usage private, ORP1 is for you.

Why an Open Router Project?
With growth in Internet speeds and the ongoing revelations that everyday people are having their personal information captured, we felt the need for a powerful platform that can be used to encrypt communications and protect our privacy and anonymity. An affordable and trustworthy system didn't seem to be on the market , thus ORP1 - the Open Router Project - was born. We need your help to make this a reality.

Security products are nothing without trust and we feel it is necessary to have a product on the market that is truly open. As such, not only is the ORP1 software to be released with an open source license, we will also be releasing the hardware design.

Why we're crowdfunding the ORP1
We have funded the project research & development all the way up to prototype phase. Now we need your help to fund the final development of the prototype and manufacture the final product. Bootstrapping has worked up until now, but itâ(TM)s meant the development of the ORP1 has been slow. We want to speed up the development so we can get the ORP1 out into the world as soon as possible. Especially since thereâ(TM)s a growing distrust of current security vendors - we want a secure and private alternative on the market ASAP.

Our Indiegogo budget will pay for:

        user interface development
        finalising the software
        system and compliance testing
        industrial design
        the first manufacturing run.

The perks of being an early adopter
If you want to be among the first to get your hands on the ORP1, we recommend you buy a Privacy Freak (only 10 available, sorry!) or Early Adopter perk. We expect to ship the ORP1 prototype to Privacy Freaks and Early Adopters in April 2014. Assuming we reach our fundraising goal, we expect to ship the ORP1 to all supporters in May 2014.

If you can't afford an ORP1, but would like to support the project, you can buy a Freedom Lover perk for $25. You will receive a warm glow from having supported an open source project, as well as a discount code to be able to buy an ORP1 at the Indiegogo price of $400 if ordered by 31 July, 2014.

Obviously the faster we reach our fundraising goal, the quicker we can move to the next phase of development, so if you want ORP1 to happen, please pledge today, and share this page with your friends too.

The Specs - Hardware

With the increase in internet speeds across the world weâ(TM)ve found it difficult to find affordable devices that can be used to encrypt data on high speed connections. Consumer devices tend to be underpowered while enterprise products are priced out of the reach of most people. Weâ(TM)ve designed the ORP1 to ensure it is capable of coping with high speed connections while remaining affordable.

The ORP1 is powered by a Freescale QorIQ P1010 processor. The P1010 includes a 32-Bit PowerPC core along with a hardware encryption engine, secure boot functionality, DDR3 interface, three Gigabit Ethernet (GE) ports, and two USB ports. A Gigabit Ethernet switch with 5 external GE ports is connected to one of the P1010â(TM)s GE ports.

Backers will receive a unit fitted with an 800MHz P1010 and 512MB of DDR3 SDRAM. Backers will also receive a copy of the schematics and PCB layout.

Our performance tests have shown that the system gets line speed routing and firewall performance with almost no impact on the CPU. IPSec testing has shown full-duplex IPSec performance at 700Mbps, and we are expecting this to be line speed with 15-20% CPU usage by manufacture.

Specifications

        Freescale QorIQ P1010 @ 800MHz, with hardware encryption engine, and secure boot
        WAN Port (Gigabit Ethernet)
        DMZ/WAN Port (Gigabit Ethernet)
        5 Port Switch (Gigabit Ethernet)
        VLAN Support
        512MB DDR3 SDRAM
        1GB NAND FLASH
        2 USB 2.0 Host Ports

The Specs - Software
The ORP1 has a custom Linux distribution built using Yocto and is configured via a web interface. The basic system will include:

        Setup wizard
        Basic network setup
        DHCP server
        DNS server (DNSMasq)
        Firewall
        NAT/Port Forwarding
        IPSec
        TOR (basic on/off)
        IPv6
        SIP Proxy
        Firmware updating
        Ability to enable automatic firmware updates: keep your system patched!
        Status dashboard
        Backup/Restore of configuration

Stretch goals
(Geeks, youâ(TM)ll want to read this)

When we break our target we have quite a list of stretch goals we'd like to achieve. We'd like your input in ranking these, so backers will get the opportunity to let us know what they think before we finalise the order. Here's a few of the stretch goals we're aiming for:

        TOR Advanced (allow routing of certain services through your IP, limit internal IPs that use TOR, etc.)
        OpenVPN
        Intrusion Detection/Prevention
        Certificate Management for IPSec (plus on-board CA for certificate creation)
        QoS/traffic shaping
        User Management
        L2TP
        SSL VPN
        SSH Key Management
        Diagnostics
        Remote syslog
        VLAN
        MAC Filtering
        USB Storage
        USB Wifi
        SNMP
        RADIUS
        Packet capture and display for diagnostics
        Implement secure boot features

All software will be released under an open source license.

About Us
The ORP1 is being developed by an experienced team of four software and hardware developers from Redfish Group Pty Ltd in Brisbane, Australia.

Our lead designer, Justin Clacherty, is the Founder and Managing Director of Redfish. Justin has degrees in Engineering (Electronics) and in Information Technology (Computer Science). He has over 16 years experience as a professional engineer developing hardware and software systems for the electricity industry, mining, rail, entertainment, and telecommunications.

You can read more about our team on the ORP1 site."

http://www.orp1.com/ [orp1.com]

High-turnover industry is a lemon, make lemonade (3, Interesting)

TheRealHocusLocus (2319802) | about a year ago | (#45536773)

Pushing 50 is an adventure. Find an entirely new direction, start a new life chapter.

I am a 1970s-onward computer tech turned 1990s-onward BSD/Linux sysadmin who helped start a Freenet and two ISPs, the first back in the 'dark ages' before AOL got its first ip address. Then after a 8 year gap in my IT resume (I had rejoined a family business) I discovered not only do 40-somethings have difficulty competing for other new hires... in this brave new world you cannot even walk in and introduce yourself anymore, it's fill out this form on our website and we'll call you back.

No one ever called back, not even for a boring graveyard shift telecom job. I now work fixing water main breaks and jetting sewers and doing light construction, I'm in better physical shape than I was at 18. The best part of it is when you clean sewers you're not expected to take your work home with you.

The worst part is when your buddies bring you their old 512mb netbooks and ask you to load Windows 8 onto them. It hurts to say no and it's sometimes hard to explain why.

NO. Here's Why: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about a year ago | (#45536775)

If you were really as good as you think you are, then you would satisfy another key requirement - you would be capable of leaving the industry and your ego behind without leaving a whole lot of gottchas there for you to milk consultancy work in your retirement. You would also have unselfishly ( fat chance - you are also probably overweight) trained in an apprentice on the side - someone younger.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?