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Snowden Document Says Dutch Secret Service Hacks Internet Forums

timothy posted about 9 months ago | from the for-your-own-collective-good dept.

Government 162

vikingpower writes "In the ever-longer wake of the NSA scandal, much-respected Dutch newspaper NRC today reveals, in English, as mandated by the gravity of the occasion, that the Dutch secret service, the AIVD, hacks internet forums. And yes, that is gross misconduct against Dutch law. The service, whose headquarters are in Zoetermeer, did not yet comment upon the divulgence of the document from Edward Snowden's collection. Incensed Dutch parliamentarians are calling for an enquiry."

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Language? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560557)

"in English, as mandated by the gravity of the occasion" -- um, what?

Re:Language? (5, Informative)

PimpBot (32046) | about 9 months ago | (#45560595)

The Dutch normally speak Dutch, because, well, it's their native tongue. Dutch itself is pretty close to German, but neither are world-popular language. As such, most people in the Netherlands speak English as well, because they're a hub of business. Publishing this in English ensures it's widely readable to the rest of the world.

Re:Language? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560661)

but [German is not] a world-popular language.

Yet.

Send in the panzers!!!!

You thought all those comments about grammar-nazis were just jokes, eh?

Today your diction... tomorrow the world!

Re:Language? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560967)

I'm all for the 1000 year rike.

Re:Language? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561179)

rike? Try Reich

Re: Language? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45562343)

What's not to rike?

Re:Language? (2)

Razgorov Prikazka (1699498) | about 9 months ago | (#45561093)

Whether it`s Dutch, German or English, it should be fora... not forums.

Re:Language? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561235)

Whether it`s Dutch, German or English, it should be fora... not forums.

In the Dutch version, it is!

Re:Language? (2)

Damouze (766305) | about 9 months ago | (#45561563)

Actually, both are equally correct in Dutch.

Re:Language? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561741)

Yes, but in the Dutch version [www.nrc.nl] , it is written fora, so if you wanted to be a pain about it, you could. The point is moot anyway, because there's no reason (other than convention) to favor forums over fora in English.

Re:Language? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561149)

Dutch itself is pretty close to German

Don't ever say this to a Dutchman.

Re:Language? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561601)

You're correct, Sir.

Re:Language? (1)

Teun (17872) | about 9 months ago | (#45562485)

Why not?

It's a fact that the Dutch language sits somewhere between English and German, all three have a common Germanic ancestor.
Please ignore the idiots that keep repeating something that happened well before their time.

Re:Language? (2)

Alarash (746254) | about 9 months ago | (#45561623)

I've also personally witnessed that the Dutch tend so speak a much, much better English than the rest of Europe. I'm saying this as a French, who is generally a people who don't speak other languages very well. I believe this is because in the Netherlands almost no English program is dubbed, so people develop a good skill for the language. Since I travel across all of Europe, I've noted that countries that usually dub the English program (Germany, France, Spain, Italy) tend to have a lower English level than the countries who don't (Portugal, Netherlands, Nordics, ...).

I'm all for preserving languages with a strong literary background (I'm mostly familiar with France's, obviously, but I do believe it's known worldwide thanks to people like Victor Hugo, Balzac or other great authors), but when it makes those people basically speak only their native tongue it's a little sad.

Re:Language? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561997)

I've also personally witnessed that the Dutch tend so speak a much, much better English than the rest of Europe. I'm saying this as a French, who is generally a people who don't speak other languages very well. I believe this is because in the Netherlands almost no English program is dubbed, so people develop a good skill for the language. Since I travel across all of Europe, I've noted that countries that usually dub the English program (Germany, France, Spain, Italy) tend to have a lower English level than the countries who don't (Portugal, Netherlands, Nordics, ...).

I'm all for preserving languages with a strong literary background (I'm mostly familiar with France's, obviously, but I do believe it's known worldwide thanks to people like Victor Hugo, Balzac or other great authors), but when it makes those people basically speak only their native tongue it's a little sad.

Navel gazing is France's raison d'être (They lost an empire, they lost the ability to decide Europe's future, they've lost the so called French Grandeur...). At this point don't take them seriously on anthying. The world just passed them by.

As for languages, many people around the world are able to utter english words. Wether they speak fluently the english language is whole different matter.

Re:Language? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45562203)

Navel gazing is France's raison d'être (They lost an empire, they lost the ability to decide Europe's future, they've lost the so called French Grandeur...). At this point don't take them seriously on anthying. The world just passed them by.

France has had no interest in deciding the "future of Europe" since Napoleon. It's like you're complaining about Obama because of something the Cherokees did.

Re:Language? (3, Interesting)

hawkinspeter (831501) | about 9 months ago | (#45562223)

I agree and as I am English (and thus speak only one language) I should be able to judge their aptitude. In fact, the Dutch seem to be amazingly good with languages and often their English is better than native speakers.

Re:Language? (2)

gmanterry (1141623) | about 9 months ago | (#45562347)

When I was in the Peace Corps (American) in Africa, I met several Dutch Peace Corps volunteers. They were all multilingual and their English was almost perfect. They told me that when you come from a small country surrounded larger countries that speak other languages, you learn their languages. They were all great people. The world could use more people like the Dutch.

Re: Language? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45562171)

Maybe you missed it... The German was almost a primary language of America :-)

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Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560563)

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####

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even if you can't detect the scent of the hybrids, or 'beasts', inhale deeply whenever the hybrids are close, don't express any emotion, just keep inhaling deeply and make your facial expression be that of deep contemplation.

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don't confront, just inhale deeply. maybe shake your head and laugh, mumble about stupid aliens but nothing deep.

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The monster was never in the bottle, but above, below, and around us. Do you think this is really just a struggle between human beings? There is much more at work here.

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===

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===

Re:EXPoSE THE DARKNESS !!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560645)

Someone please tell me that APK doesn't have a new (or rather, additional) obsession to blather on about.

There's only two things I hate in this world... (3, Funny)

Sigvatr (1207234) | about 9 months ago | (#45560565)

People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch

Re:There's only two things I hate in this world... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560587)

Some cultures deserve to not be tolerated. Even "multi-culturalists" don't believe the multi-culturalist b.s. Don't agree? Then tell me how much you tolerate cultures which engage in human sacrifice, cannibalism and/or child sex trafficking.

Re:There's only two things I hate in this world... (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 9 months ago | (#45560621)

Whoosh [youtube.com]

Re:There's only two things I hate in this world... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560755)

Sadly, political reality today is so close to parody that it is sometimes difficult to notice the difference.

Re:There's only two things I hate in this world... (1)

marcello_dl (667940) | about 9 months ago | (#45561325)

Well, technically it is wooshy on the slim chance that you consider Dutch a culture.
I needed to listen to an awful lot of techno EPs and to forget about a lot of paintings, to be able to do that myself.

Re:There's only two things I hate in this world... (1)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 9 months ago | (#45561105)

True and Insightful! Dutch here btw.

Huh? What? (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560577)

Surprise! Every govt has an intelligence service and every intelligence service spends at least part of its time spying on its own citizens. If this is news to you, then you will surely be traumatized when you find out that every country tortures people during wars and most torture a few during times of peace. Who do you think Lady GaGa sells most of her recordings to?

Re:Huh? What? (4, Insightful)

ThreeKelvin (2024342) | about 9 months ago | (#45560603)

It might not be news, but it is still stuff that matters!

I want the world I live in to be a good place, not a place where, as you put it, people are tortured and spied upon. I want to be able to sleep at night, knowing that my government works for basic human rights, including the right to privacy and the right to not be tortured in some prison camp!

The more the wrongdoings of the governments of the west are exposed, the easier it is to stand up against them using non-violent means like voting and demonstrating. So, don't come here and tell me that it isn't in the category news and/or stuff that matters. I for one don't accept the world I live in, and I want to change it for the better.

Re:Huh? What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560807)

The OP was probably just gloating because many non-U.S. has been condemning U.S. for spying and torturing as if it doesn't go on by all as human nature.

Does that make it right? No? Then SO WHAT? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560613)

Sick of this "Everyone does it!".

Child trafficking is rampant.

So it's OK if I do it?

Re:Does that make it right? No? Then SO WHAT? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561109)

Child trafficking is rampant.

So it's OK if I do it?

Diamonds are everywhere! Therefore, it is okay for me to steal diamonds?

That is the problem with arguments without numbers -- it is possible for something to be "rampant" (as in a big problem for society) while still "minuscule" (as in you probably don't do it, or anyone that you know).

Re:Does that make it right? No? Then SO WHAT? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45562389)

"Diamonds are everywhere! "

Indeed they are! Therefore you can have diamonds near you!

And if they aren't owned, you cannot steal them. If they are already owned, then it would be wrong to steal them, no matter how many there are.

Sorry, your "analogy" sucks.

If you'd said "Diamond thieves are rampant, is it OK if I steal diamonds?" then your analogy would be correct.

Re:Does that make it right? No? Then SO WHAT? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561407)

Sick of this "Everyone does it!".

Child trafficking is rampant.

So it's OK if I do it?

Do you work for the government's Child Trafficking Logistics Agency?

That's where the "everyone does it" argument comes from. They're spies, it's their fucking job to spy on potential hostiles and to ignore the law while doing it.

captcha: sexist. This post contains the word "fucking" so it is sexist..

Re:Does that make it right? No? Then SO WHAT? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561471)

So if someone employs the GP to do child trafficking, it's alright?

It's his job!

Re:Does that make it right? No? Then SO WHAT? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561813)

That's where the "everyone does it" argument comes from.

Popularity is not a justification. "Everyone does it" is not a justification.

Re:Huh? What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560631)

Surprise! Every govt has an intelligence service and every intelligence service spends at least part of its time spying on its own citizens.

Yes, we know, you knew this ages ago before anyone else because it's obvious, and nobody else should be surprised. Knowing is not the point. The point is that a lot of people weren't aware of the extent or scale of it, and "revealing" this information with solid proof of what's going on sparks a debate in the relevant countries of whether or not this is acceptable and whether or not they're OK with it. The fact that it is going on is not the big deal here, the big deal is whether or not people think it is acceptable, and that debate can only be informed with solid information rather than "of course they spy on us! That's obvious!" hand waving. You make it sound like we should never start discussions about what our governments are up to because it's all so obvious anyway.

As an aside, the oversight committee says that some of what they did was "“not in accordance with Dutch law”, and a few Dutch MPs are calling for an inquiry. What happens (or doesn't as the case may be) in response to that can be say a lot of interesting things about a government and again help citizens form an opinion of their government or their neighbours government.

Re:Huh? What? (1)

AIphaWolf_HK (3439155) | about 9 months ago | (#45560847)

The point is that a lot of people weren't aware of the extent or scale of it

Most people didn't know about this at all. Unsurprisingly, most people are also highly unintelligent.

Re:Huh? What? (1)

Goaway (82658) | about 9 months ago | (#45561079)

Yes, let's accept despicable behaviour to make ourselves look jaded and cool on the internet. That is a great solution to all problems!

Re:Huh? What? (0)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 9 months ago | (#45561111)

Apathic troll.
Die.

Re:Huh? What? (0)

mspohr (589790) | about 9 months ago | (#45561659)

So your point is...?
- We should all just shut up like good sheeple?
- We should learn to like spying?
- Torture is good!
- They are saving us from the terrorists!
- Lady Gaga?

Do you really believe the politicians ? (2)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 9 months ago | (#45560581)

Last sentence of the TFA:

Incensed Dutch parliamentarians are calling for an enquiry

Are the politicians really incensed ?

Aww ...

Please don't disappoint me.

Please don't tell me that the Dutch politicians are all angels !!

Re:Do you really believe the politicians ? (2)

mpol (719243) | about 9 months ago | (#45560687)

It's just politics. None of the politicians came across as serious when the first revelations of Snowden came out. Only the SP wanted to ask questions to Snowden directly, but he definitely won't fly to Holland :).
When it comes to this situation, there's no real party you can trust.

Color me surprised. (5, Insightful)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 9 months ago | (#45560597)

Just because so many governments do it, it doesn't make it any more right. Quite the contrary. This revelation only removes "the Moral High Ground" from another nation's people.

Re:Color me surprised. (2)

amiga3D (567632) | about 9 months ago | (#45560759)

I'm kind of shocked that people are so shocked. It's like they thought they had privacy or something. Amazing how many people are waking up to the fact they were living in a fantasy world.

Re:Color me surprised. (1)

AIphaWolf_HK (3439155) | about 9 months ago | (#45560857)

I'm kind of shocked that people are so shocked.

Who's shocked? People in places such as this, or 'normal' people? If the latter, you shouldn't be shocked; they've always been unintelligent.

Re:Color me surprised. (1)

khallow (566160) | about 9 months ago | (#45561277)

Maybe he's shocked that some number of "normal" people are paying attention?

Re:Color me surprised. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561213)

So let me get this straight. Before all this revelations, people who talked about espionage like this where named tinfoils and laughed upon. And now after these revelations people who complain are told that they are idiots since everyone always knew that this was going on.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense...

But not from other people. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560913)

I am not my government.

I do not want this.

Therefore I can be outraged at YOUR government's villainy just fine, thank you.

Re:Color me surprised. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561147)

"This revelation only removes "the Moral High Ground" from another nation's people."

considering that the Dutch government is actually angry about this, and not defending it like the US government is, no I do not at all think this removes the moral high ground.

Re:Color me surprised. (1)

khallow (566160) | about 9 months ago | (#45561317)

considering that the Dutch government is actually angry about this

It's probably more a credit to the Dutch people than their government.

Why (-1, Offtopic)

g0bshiTe (596213) | about 9 months ago | (#45560599)

Are we all surprised still by these documents?

Re:Why (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560629)

The real question is: how did the NSA know that the Dutch secret service was doing this?
Either the NSA is spying on the spies, or they're sharing data.

Re:Why (1)

shikaisi (1816846) | about 9 months ago | (#45560643)

The real question is: how did the NSA know that the Dutch secret service was doing this?

They were paying them to do it?

Re:Why (2)

bytesex (112972) | about 9 months ago | (#45560741)

Eh.. because 'friendly' spying agencies are well-known for the way in which they exchange this kind of information?

/ Seriously.

Re:Why (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560701)

Why were we ever surprised that government spies are acting like spies and ignoring the letter of the law to collect confidential information?

Rains' character is shocked.

Now! THIS Is Too Far! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560623)

Sure, it wasn't good when the NSA was spying, the GCHQ revelations made the situation worse. Australian spying was pretty bad too.

But, Dutch internet spying is taking it all just too far. This is the tipping point, the world's civilian populace will surely rise up against Dutch spying!

Ooh The Voice(wost show ever) [imdb.com] is on!

/. and mysql? (1, Interesting)

plankrwf (929870) | about 9 months ago | (#45560627)

The real question is, of course, if Slashdot is using mySQL as well.

(Don't bother: if you did not read the article, you will not understand the comment)

Re:/. and mysql? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560705)

(Don't bother: if you did not read the article, you will not understand the comment)

Haha... very clever -- nearly tricked me into reading the article! We on Slashdot know better than that!

Snowden (-1, Flamebait)

BringsApples (3418089) | about 9 months ago | (#45560659)

Man, ok... I'm so tired of this Snowden Spooling of news that I'm about to vomit. It's not going to be long before I myself go on a snowden-hunt/rampage, just to get all of the goddamned info finally. It appears that his way of dealing with news that affects us all is similar to playing all sides. So the world has been taken hostage, and/or is being used as a bargaining chip it appears. After all, how the hell do we know that information isn't being used as a blackmail device, and if the government's don't pay up, then RELEASE!

Who cares that now the Dutch government hacks internet forums. Does their local police abuse power? Are their people nervous all the time, waiting for the next "Snowden Revelation"? Are there any Dutch folks on slashdot that could tell us a bit about your impression of this article? And if so, could you also let us know to what degree 'The People' of Holland fear their government?

Re:Snowden (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560707)

Reality is vomit-inducing. It's not his fault.

Re:Snowden (2, Informative)

wvmarle (1070040) | about 9 months ago | (#45560789)

I'm a Dutch, living abroad.

What I can say is that the situation has deteriorated over the past decade. Mostly thanks to kowtowing to the US. Nowadays everyone has to carry ID all the time; that's since just over a decade (and the rule was implemented remarkably silently). You have to give fingerprints for your passport, officially to make it more secure (but does it? Last summer I didn't see fingerprint scanners at the border, for example).

Overall I think the Dutch do not fear their government (not like in more totalitarian states like the US, where everyone seems to fear their government), at least I don't exactly fear the government. It is chosen democratically, high degree of freedom of expression, and a free and strong press takes care of providing a proper counterbalance.

The police in general do not abuse their power. Though over the past ten years there are more and more laws that give the police opportunities to abuse power, like the right to conduct random searches of people and vehicles. Police for example can at any time without giving a reason cordon off a street and search anyone that happens to be in that area.

This AIVD thing is different, though. I don't consider AIVD to be government, they're more like police or judiciary: paid for but independent of the government. They have a mandate, to collect intelligence, and there are laws regulating what they can and can not do. Governments of all countries do this, it's normal part of police work too.

What happened here appears to be outside that mandate (it should be, imho, but I don't know what the law says or what exactly happened). If they want info from a forum, they can just register as user (may need some undercover work, whatever), and read all posts on that forum - like any user can. It's not OK to hack into a server, and download complete databases, that's going too far. In case of a known criminal link, it's defensible, but in this case there seems to be no such suspicion.

Re:Snowden (1)

BringsApples (3418089) | about 9 months ago | (#45561347)

I got modded into flamebait (I guess I'll simply have to stop commenting on Snowden leaks), but you provided a good response. Thank you for the explanation.

Re:Snowden (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561409)

You have to give fingerprints for your passport, officially to make it more secure (but does it? Last summer I didn't see fingerprint scanners at the border, for example).

The fingerprints are likely stored for verification purposes and might be sent out to requesting authorities across the world to combat passport forgery.

It's not OK to hack into a server, and download complete databases, that's going too far. In case of a known criminal link, it's defensible, but in this case there seems to be no such suspicion.

The article suggests that there might have been a target there, but surely then the data gathering could have been focused on the target and it's social graph? Reading the English article it really seems like the Facebook generation has entered in the service of the public. The result is "no more privacy" and "people who think they are entitled to privacy as part of their human rights are either dead, should be dead, in the old people's home or criminals and pedophiles."
  In my neighborhood of 1.5 million people who represent a significant part of the population, over 70% are Facebook users. I think I'm on the losing side of the next civil war already.

Re:Snowden (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561725)

A civil war between those with Facebook accounts and those without? I'm in, even if we're outnumbered.

Re:Snowden (1)

AIphaWolf_HK (3439155) | about 9 months ago | (#45561787)

The fingerprints are likely stored for verification purposes and might be sent out to requesting authorities across the world to combat passport forgery.

That doesn't improve the situation in the least. Violating people's privacy for security purposes is not acceptable.

"is" vs "would" (0)

cbraescu1 (180267) | about 9 months ago | (#45560679)

And yes, that is gross misconduct against Dutch law.

Just because Snowden alleges anything doesn't necessarily mean that thing is true. Snowden must provide enough proof (be it direct or indirect) for his claims to be actually taken seriously.

Therefore, by logic, the OP should have actually commented "what WOULD BE gross misconduct against Dutch law".

This Just In (0)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 9 months ago | (#45560717)

"Snowden says all dogs go to heaven!"

Re:"is" vs "would" (4, Insightful)

vikingpower (768921) | about 9 months ago | (#45560889)

I am the original poster. Snowden never alleged that this is against Dutch law. The newspaper that published this ( in the very early morning hours, btw, they did not wait for daybreak and people getting out of bed ) alleges it. So do I. I read the law that governs the AIVD's activities. This is clearly outside of the framework set by that law: "... and [ is allowed ] to infiltrate organizations which endanger national or public security...". Now, an internet forum is not an "organization which endangers national or public security", unless you live in Iran, North Korea or China.

Re:"is" vs "would" (2)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 9 months ago | (#45561033)

some of the users might be which is presumably the justification - its the same when you tap the phones ATT isn't the target one or more of the users of the service is

Re:"is" vs "would" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561083)

You can't hack an entire fucking forum to get at a few bogeymen. Anyone who says otherwise is a government cheerleader.

Re:"is" vs "would" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561719)

You can't hack an entire fucking forum to get at a few bogeymen.

Not only can you, the Dutch did!

Re:"is" vs "would" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561609)

Now, an internet forum is not an "organization which endangers national or public security", unless you live in Iran, North Korea, China , or the USA.

FTFY
(hmm, someone loudly knocking my door now...)

Re:"is" vs "would" (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 9 months ago | (#45561015)

sorry "gross misconduct against Dutch law" doesn't even make legal sense can you quote the dutch RIPA law which says that what they did is not allowed?

Comments of the AIVD (2)

Lars Op den Kamp (2827885) | about 9 months ago | (#45560685)

The AIVD did comment, even before the NRC published the article: https://www.aivd.nl/actueel/@3033/interception/ [www.aivd.nl] (Dutch)
And after the article was published: https://www.aivd.nl/actueel/@3034/reactie-nrc/ [www.aivd.nl] (Dutch)

According to them, this is allowed by the current law. However, a lot of parties in parliament and expers don't agree with this assesment and are starting actions to disallow this kind of investigation.

Re:Comments of the AIVD (1)

Lars Op den Kamp (2827885) | about 9 months ago | (#45560699)

s/expers/experts

Re:Comments of the AIVD (1)

bigfoottoo (2947459) | about 9 months ago | (#45561621)

"Mass interception of telecommunications, for example by means of satellites, does not require the approval of the minister, because its content is not being processed and thus -according to the law- does not infringe the secrecy of correspondence, which includes telephone and telegraph. "

Basically, they are saying that they can intercept everything and store it in the haystack, and as long as it is not processed, no privacy has been violated. They use the analysis of metadata to obtain targeted approval from the ministry to extract the relavent stored content. I suspect that the NSA uses a similar distorted reasoning in their bulk interception and examination of our phone calls. The only way we will ever defeat these clowns is to encrypt EVERYTHING. And, we will need to be diligent in our search for hard and soft backdoors.

Politicians are outraged? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560693)

Only because they fear they may be spied on too.

At the risk of this being a very Dutch-centric (2)

bytesex (112972) | about 9 months ago | (#45560737)

- post (damn Slashdot constraints on the length of the subject)

It looks like the scandal in The Netherlands about the NSA from what is revealed by Snowden, is mainly the *lack* of anything scandalous at all. There was a four-page article in a leading newspaper the other week about it, and the most it could claim was that we were infiltrated from 1947 until 1968 and that, every now and then, they might take a poorly protected mySQL database on some poor slob's website.

I don't mean to sound like those other 'security experts' who feign fatigue and familiarity with NSA's practices, but this one mainly stood out by its complete and utter boringness, I tell you.

Yuo fail It (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560775)

found out about the obtain a copy of Java IRC client Irc.easynews.com Development model and the bottom all parties it's And she ran around are in need According 7othis most. Look at the real problems resound as fitting users all over the faster than this who are intersted ofone single puny we don't sux0r as Creek, abysmal Creek, abysmal their hand...she conflicts that by clicking here am protesting Inventing excuses

I for one welcome our new secret service overlords (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560785)

I would like to remind them, that as a trusted slashdot presonality, I, Anonymous Coward, can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their undergorund data mines.

The Dutch Don't "get" the Internet (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560853)

Whenever one of their citizens posts a new movie on the Internet, they invariably hard code Dutch Subtitles, despite the fact that using the .mkv format *it's more difficult to hard code Subtitles than simply mux them in.

Every time you see one of these, you know the Dutch are just dumb.

Re:The Dutch Don't "get" the Internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560999)

no, just shockingly arrogant,

have you ever met the amish?

There are no Amish subtitles (1)

Overzeetop (214511) | about 9 months ago | (#45561253)

At least they don't hard code their !@#$%%# subtitles before the upload their rips. Even they're not that discourteous.

Re: The Dutch Don't "get" the Internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561383)

Yes, I have met many Amish. They are not Dutch. You might enjoy reading up on Amish/Mennonite history. They are a facinating people. I grew up around them in Central Pennsylvania, USA. I greatly admire their integrity, work ethic, humility and grace. If someone finds them arrogant or dumb, it is probably because that person has been rude or offensive to them and they are attempting to not reply in kind.

Re:The Dutch Don't "get" the Internet (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 9 months ago | (#45561069)

There seems to be many smart Dutch people in the open source world. To throw a couple of names, Bram Moolenaar, who is the Vim author, and...uhh...Andrew Tanenbaum...

Re:The Dutch Don't "get" the Internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561915)

Bram Moolenaar, who is the Vim author

Well, there you go. He's obviously mentally deranged.

Re:The Dutch Don't "get" the Internet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45562055)

Whenever one of their citizens posts a new movie on the Internet, they invariably hard code Dutch Subtitles, despite the fact that using the .mkv format *it's more difficult to hard code Subtitles than simply mux them in.

Every time you see one of these, you know the Dutch are just dumb.

And yet its the Americans who are too dumb and build cities that are submerged by floods.
They're so dumb in fact that they have to ask the Dutch for advices in how to deal with climate change and rising seawater levels. Oh but I forget, the Americans are too dumb to even think climate change is real.
Yanks enjoy your underwater cities in the next 100-200 years. Mission accomplished.

Russia (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45560927)

Anybody thinking that Russia took him so that they got a chance to censor their secrets?

Iron Sky flashback (1)

paiute (550198) | about 9 months ago | (#45560949)

Reminds me of the scene in Iron Sky when the President asks "OK, anybody who doesn't have an armed space station raise their hand."

Re:Iron Sky flashback (1)

Goaway (82658) | about 9 months ago | (#45561115)

Oh man please be the same and we're the only ones who haven't...

News Flash (0)

whizbang77045 (1342005) | about 9 months ago | (#45560959)

News Flash! Intelligence agencies caught gathering intelligence! Film at 11!

And take a wild guess who their client is (1)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 9 months ago | (#45561103)

Ot should that be "whose client they are".
Who gives.

And nothing is changing yet (1)

erroneus (253617) | about 9 months ago | (#45561201)

While certain diplomatic and economic relations are under strain and protests go on all over, it's important to note that none of the surveillance and other civil rights and outright illegal activity has slowed or stopped at all. In some ways it seems to have increased.

Demanding that these activities cease is action #1.

Snowden for US President! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561447)

It really bothers me how many Americans have called Snowden a traitor. He is a hero braving to do what too few others in the know have done.

Re:Snowden for US President! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45562321)

Only paid shills have called him a traitor.
Even the dumb people that think government is their friend have enough sense to know that Snowden's actions could not, in any stretch of the imagination, be considered traitorous. Of course, this doesn't stop certain news groups from trying to change the definition of words like "treason" to mean "anything that I don't personally agree with" in attempt to mislead the populace.

When Dutch People Date (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45561665)

Do each of them pay their own way?

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