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U.S. Measles Cases Triple In 2013

Soulskill posted about 8 months ago | from the vaccinate-your-brood dept.

Medicine 462

An anonymous reader writes "The U.S. Centers for Disease Control have announced that measles cases in the U.S. spiked this year, rising to three times their recent average rate. It's partly due to a greater number of people traveling to the U.S. when they're infectious, but also because a frustrating number of people are either failing to have their children vaccinated, or are failing to do so in a timely manner. Dr. Thomas Friedman said, 'Around 90 percent of the people who have had measles in this country were not vaccinated either because they refused, or were not vaccinated on time.' Phil Plait adds, 'In all three of these outbreaks, someone who had not been vaccinated traveled overseas and brought the disease back with them, which then spread due to low vaccination rates in their communities. It's unclear how much religious beliefs themselves were behind the outbreaks in Brooklyn and North Carolina; it may have been due to widespread secular anti-vax beliefs in those tight-knit groups. But either way, a large proportion of the people in those areas were unvaccinated.'"

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462 comments

Duh (5, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 8 months ago | (#45622213)

It goes without saying that the moronic get what they deserve, though sadly, when herd immunity is compromised, sometimes the innocent (those who cannot be inoculated) pay the price too.

Re:Duh (5, Insightful)

compro01 (777531) | about 8 months ago | (#45622281)

It goes without saying that the moronic get what they deserve

The moronic parents aren't getting what they deserve, it's their children that are paying the price.

Re:Duh (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 8 months ago | (#45622343)

Don't you know? In the U.S. crimes like "stupidity" or "poverty" are entirely genetic. It's official.

Re: Duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622673)

Honest question here: Exactly what price was that? How much did these kids suffer? How bad measles *could get* won't answer my question, so please don't post Wikipedia images of the worst conditions recorded. I want to know how severe the cases were that these kids *did get* with their proximity to the vaccinated population.

  If they got a couple degrees fever for a couple days I wonder what all the hysteria is about (e.g. why it's "criminal" to not give the MMR). Are we going to get hyped up about trivial items like a sore throat or headache some day? Where does this end?

  But if their limbs are falling off then this story is proof positive that vaccines are necessary for everyone.

Disclaimers: I may be married to an anti-vaxer, and you may have to reboot your computer after applying this update.

Re:Duh (-1, Troll)

Adeptus_Luminati (634274) | about 8 months ago | (#45622749)

*Some* of this vaccination stuff is overrated. Seriously, I've had like 5 diseases (measles, mumps, varicella, rubella and influenzaa) as a child that people get vaccinated for here in North America. I remember having a wonderful childhood, and I'm still alive and quite healthy with ZERO side effects of having had those diseases.

I find it even more ridiculous people get vaccinated for the flu these days. Pretty soon they'll come out with a vaccine against carbon dioxide.... LOL.

Big pharma marketing has apparently been successful in creating a nation of hypocondiracs.

Yes, get your children vaccinated, but for serious stuff only, and only with vaccines that have proven themselves after at least a decade.

Re:Duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622753)

And their bio-win turns into a bio-fail. If only we could then put them on trial and make them sterile.

Re:Duh (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622289)

This is the real problem. I really don't care if a bunch of bible-thumping zealots don't vaccinate their own kids, let them all die off. Except for the fact that these unvaccinated "patient zeroes" then come into contact with members of the general public. Oh well, if you don't get your kid's shots and he dies, don't complain. It was just "God's Will" after all.

Re:Duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622345)

If by "bible thumping" you mean people referencing the bible, seems pretty clear (and the vast majority of Christian denominations would agree) that if there is a clear practical health resolution available, and you don't use it, you are "tempting the Lord your God" and this is not morally praiseworthy.

On the other hand, from an evolutionary perspective, people doing this has no objection--if they infect 1000 other people, and they die, well, their DNA lost. Case closed.

Re:Duh (0)

qbast (1265706) | about 8 months ago | (#45622469)

How come? It was God's will that you became ill. Who are you to go against it? You will burn in hell for that.

Re:Duh (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622545)

I'll take my theology from people who know something about it, thanks.

It may be God's will that I became ill, or it may not. There are a great many reasons why the personal difficulties of an illness may result in a net good. However, I am indeed expected to maintain my existence in the absence of a clear overriding mandate. That God may choose not to eliminate medical science and human free will (which your form of slippery-slope argument will always get around to demanding) for the purposes of curing my sickness, doesn't alter the proximate personal responsibility.

Re:Duh (1)

icebike (68054) | about 8 months ago | (#45622631)

How come? It was God's will that you became ill. Who are you to go against it? You will burn in hell for that.

If its God's will you should get hit by a car, who are you to stay out of traffic on a busy street?

Seriously, I suspect you were joking, but why feed such nonsense to the same bunch of people that are too dumb to get their kids in for a free measles shot?

Re:Duh (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622353)

It goes without saying that the moronic get what they deserve

Nobody deserves to suffer.

And the conduits for this nonsense are idiots like Dawkins and other "Reason is King" types who polarise science v. woowoo as a self-aggrandisement exercise, creating controversy where there was none, backing people into a corner and encouraging them to lash out irrationally.

Re:Duh (-1, Troll)

mythosaz (572040) | about 8 months ago | (#45622383)

Nobody deserves to suffer.

Plenty of people deserve to suffer.

...or at least deserve to be put out of their suffering at minimal expense to the state.

The religious idiots (and those who believe morons who link vaccinations to autism), don't deserve to suffer. They deserve a fucking education.

Re:Duh (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622451)

If I pointed to a particular atheist who did something stupid, would you then consider the term "atheist idiots" a fair term to apply to any and all issues?

Re:Duh (1)

mythosaz (572040) | about 8 months ago | (#45622509)

I'm not sure what that has to do with what I said (idiots deserve an education), but if atheists as a whole were generally predisposed to a particular stupid behavior, I'd be happy to generalize for the sake of conversation, yeah.

Re:Duh (1)

Empiric (675968) | about 8 months ago | (#45622627)

Good to hear. I'll consider all these Arguments From A Void that try to point out how relatively bad the results of theism are compared to an undefined non-position of a non-demographic, that non-associatable with anyone, to be cases in point.

Re:Duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622751)

You do realize that "religious idiots" is not synonymous with "religious people", right? Just thought I'd check, because it sounds like you think the two are synonymous.

Re:Duh (1, Interesting)

anglico (1232406) | about 8 months ago | (#45622597)

They deserve a fucking education.

What if I told you I know a very well educated micro biologist who refuses to vaccinate his 7 kids? His wife's education is in psychology, but they are still educated, and they steadfastly refuse to vaccinate and when I try to argue I'm told "you don't know enough science to argue with me".

Re:Duh (4, Insightful)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | about 8 months ago | (#45622695)

They deserve a fucking education.

What if I told you I know a very well educated micro biologist who refuses to vaccinate his 7 kids? His wife's education is in psychology, but they are still educated, and they steadfastly refuse to vaccinate and when I try to argue I'm told "you don't know enough science to argue with me".

I'd tell him he's being fucking stupid and tell him to get his kids vaccinated before he gets somebody killed. Want fries with that?

Re:Duh (4, Interesting)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 8 months ago | (#45622699)

What if I told you I was the Emperor of Andromeda and that my farts didn't stink and every time I touched a dollar bill, it turned into a bar of gold?

Talk is cheap, mate, and even if, on the outside chance you aren't some stupid antivaccer trying to make your objections sound the least bit rational, then I'd say the weight of your fellow biologists outweighs any particular claim you may make, and it is them you would have to debate, and it is them you would most likely get used to.

Oh, and stay the fuck away from my kids, you arrogant asshole.

Re:Duh (1, Troll)

qbast (1265706) | about 8 months ago | (#45622489)

Oh poor oppressed dears. Don't mock my invisible friend or I will blow up myself and 100 other people! And it will be all _your_ fault!

Re:Duh (1)

gameboyhippo (827141) | about 8 months ago | (#45622771)

I'm sure in real life you're not so hateful towards people whose metaphysical hypothesis you disagree with.

Re:Duh (0)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 8 months ago | (#45622527)

Alas, not many of them seem to be "getting what they deserve".

The "spike to triple the normal levels" was a spike from 60 deaths per year to 175 deaths per year, which makes it almost 1/3 of 1% of juvenile deaths in the USA (and almost 1/10th the rate of suicide among juveniles).

Frankly, we have more important things to worry about.

Re:Duh (1)

gtall (79522) | about 8 months ago | (#45622601)

Preventing needless death gets lower priority because we have more important things to worry about? Name one.

Re:Duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622729)

Needless deaths with vastly more common causes.

Re:Duh (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622561)

I'm surprised by how smart slashdot people often appear, when they religiously cling to the unclear science of what vaccines really do in practice.

Re:Duh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622625)

I'm probably wrong on this but even for those the did get vaxed, years after, the vax wears off and they can still get measles. I know for a fact smallpox vax's are effective for a time, but should an outbreak happen those that were vaxed would have to be re-vaxed. And the vax's are the problem because no one can say without a doubt what effects the fillers or preservatives have on the human body. In all fairness I recently watched a special on cable about flame retardants, which more then likely are causing autism in children, lead from gas and other materials, plastics, ect...

DO you want everyone to be saved? The world is getting smaller and smaller and the medical industry only cares because they see cash signs attached to people, if that wasn't the case those that couldn't "afford" to be vaxed would be. That's what we've become, a walking wallet, this is why there will never be cures for anything, I seriously doubt with the US-Euro led medical industry you will see gene treatment as a cure, they'll try to ban it, or use it as more means to drain money from you.

Thanks, Jenny McCarthy (5, Insightful)

therealkevinkretz (1585825) | about 8 months ago | (#45622229)

... and other idiots

Re:Thanks, Jenny McCarthy (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622309)

And why is Phil Plait accusing religious people? It's usually those on the left like Jenny McCarthy who are anti-vaxxers.

More to the point, why is this article quoting an astronomer? Why not some real internal medicine doctors.

Re:Thanks, Jenny McCarthy (4, Informative)

RevWaldo (1186281) | about 8 months ago | (#45622337)

"Vaccines am bad. Electronic cigarettes am perfectly safe." - Jenny McCarthy.

.

Re:Thanks, Jenny McCarthy (4, Informative)

arthurpaliden (939626) | about 8 months ago | (#45622385)

The thing is that her kid did not even have autism and is now responding well to the condition he really does have.

Re:Thanks, Jenny McCarthy (4, Funny)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 8 months ago | (#45622397)

A pox upon her house!

Re:Thanks, Jenny McCarthy (1)

lyapunov (241045) | about 8 months ago | (#45622463)

Not just her and her ilk, but the unintended consequences of govt programs...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-cia-fake-vaccination-campaign-endangers-us-all&WT.mc_id=SA_CAT_HLTH_20130507 [scientificamerican.com]

I think we will see a much larger spike in developing countries.

The histories of vaccination programs are both wonderful and sad. I'm amazed that they were able to eradicate small pox, but the stories of how close they have come to eradicating polio only to have it fail is a testament to the challenges that we face and how important a role of sane health and foreign policy and education play in all of our lives.

Anti-vaxxers (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622241)

I actually have a co-worker who refused to get the MMR vaccine for his two children, both of whom came down with the measles last year. They didn't shun the vaccine because of religious reasons; rather, Jenny McCarthy convinced them that it would give their children autism. And while it's entertaining to watch this, and it's fun to sit back and mock these people, their belief system, and the consequences of their actions, the fact remains that these idiots are a real threat to our herd immunity.

The real answer to this is education, although that's almost as dirty a word as "vaccination" in 2013 United States.

I'm an Anti-VAXxer, you insensitive clod! (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622269)

PDP-11s forever!

Re:I'm an Anti-VAXxer, you insensitive clod! (1)

arthurpaliden (939626) | about 8 months ago | (#45622421)

LSI-11's

Re:Anti-vaxxers (1)

pezpunk (205653) | about 8 months ago | (#45622291)

it's "entertaining" and "fun" to watch kids come down with the measles? what the fuck is wrong with you?

Re:Anti-vaxxers (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622377)

No, it's entertaining and fun to watch idiots who make idiotic decisions have to suffer the consequences of those decisions. When my co-worker's kids had the measles, I made it a point to stop by his cubicle every day and ask "Hey, how's that anti-vaccination decision working out for you?" Sure, it sucks for the kids, but let's not pretend that the measles are fatal with the exception of a tiny fraction of cases.

Hopefully when the kids grow up and have kids of their own, they'll take a lesson from this and vaccinate then. As a bonus, they can capture the vaccination on their iPhone 62S and send it along to Grandma and Grandpa, along with the message "Sure wish you had done this for me, idiots!"

Re:Anti-vaxxers (4, Informative)

X0563511 (793323) | about 8 months ago | (#45622485)

Sure, it sucks for the kids, but let's not pretend that the measles are fatal with the exception of a tiny fraction of cases.

Huh? Quoth wikipedia:

Between the years 1987 and 2000, the case fatality rate across the United States was 3 measles-attributable deaths per 1000 cases, or 0.3%. In underdeveloped nations with high rates of malnutrition and poor healthcare, fatality rates have been as high as 28%. In immunocompromised patients (e.g. people with AIDS) the fatality rate is approximately 30%.

Re:Anti-vaxxers (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622325)

Duh only pepul who get teh vaxinations r teh "intelligensia". Dem fooking elitust pricks 'n there gosh durn edumacations!

-American Idiot #626471

Re:Anti-vaxxers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622585)

Part of it is anti-government fears, stemming from the fact that most civics and politics have been stripped out of the classroom in the US, so government works like a black box to a lot of Americans.

As always, there is some kernel of truth in things, which ends up getting getting blown out of proportion. The mercury in vaccines for example.

There was an article about a "rehab camp" in one of the Carolinas. This gets so inflated to stories and Youtube videos ofpeople seeing FEMA camps every five miles, UN troops in the tens of thousands massing in Mexico and Canada, trailers with guillotines on them, and so on.

In reality, if FEMA is so powerful, why are they so starved for cash every time a disaster hits?

Another part of it is that people who are not educated are easier to play as fools. I encounter propaganda from places like "Lassiz Faire back in the US as the law of the land organization" or similar. For the average prole, they really don't want to go to a Gilded Age system... it definitely will not help them a bit. So, when people are not educated, conspiracy theories about something they don't know about are easy for them to grab ahold of.

Re:Anti-vaxxers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622777)

Part of it is anti-government fears

I don't find anti-government fears very concerning. In fact, I consider that a good thing.

The main problem is that people are too trusting in instances where I don't think they should be, and in other cases, they dismiss everything to do with the government blindly. The problem is that people aren't intelligently deciding which powers the government should have, and which it shouldn't. Distrust of government is healthy, though.

stemming from the fact that most civics and politics have been stripped out of the classroom in the US, so government works like a black box to a lot of Americans.

And it always has. Most people have always been ignorant and unintelligent; a dangerous combination.

The really sad thing is vaccines improving (5, Insightful)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 months ago | (#45622257)

We even now have a permanent Tetanus combo booster shot (TDAP) instead of the old every ten year one (that probably expired, don't step on a rusty nail!).

Correlation is not causation, but not getting an MMR measles mumps rubella shot is just criminal. Without herd immunity we're starting to see hospitals requiring people to wear masks or stay in isolation wards, measures we never had to do before the "fad" of not getting shots started.

And, no, I don't care what your objections are - there are nasal spray versions of all the shots, so stop endangering everyone else with your stupidity.

Re:The really sad thing is vaccines improving (1)

compro01 (777531) | about 8 months ago | (#45622295)

We even now have a permanent Tetanus combo booster shot (TDAP) instead of the old every ten year one (that probably expired, don't step on a rusty nail!).

Where are you finding that its permanent?

Re:The really sad thing is vaccines improving (1)

Groghunter (932096) | about 8 months ago | (#45622365)

Indeed, while TDAP is a once-only shot, you still need Td boosters.

Re:The really sad thing is vaccines improving (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 months ago | (#45622399)

new formulation - maybe you civilians don't get it yet

Re:The really sad thing is vaccines improving (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about 8 months ago | (#45622543)

not getting an MMR measles mumps rubella shot is just criminal.

Thanks. The first shot almost killed me, and I was told that any boosters or retries later in life might finish the job. Glad to know I'm a criminal for that.

Re:The really sad thing is vaccines improving (5, Insightful)

realityimpaired (1668397) | about 8 months ago | (#45622649)

What he said should probably be qualified with the phrase "without a medical reason not to". My partner hasn't had all of her shots either, but that's because she had a heart transplant when she was 11 and has a compromised immune system. And I'm seriously pissed off at any fuckwit who, without a similarly good reason, puts her health at risk by not getting their own immunizations.

Re:The really sad thing is vaccines improving (0)

Chemisor (97276) | about 8 months ago | (#45622547)

And, no, I don't care what your objections are - there are nasal spray versions of all the shots

You should care what the objections are. The objections are not to the vaccine itself but to thiomersal used in them as a preservative. It is entirely possible to provide the vaccine without thiomersal (in Europe that's already standard practice) and if you listened to the objections, you'd do so and get more people vaccinated. The only blame here is on your insistence that thiomersal is safe, which is not your decision in the first place. Each patient has a right to decide what to put in his body, and if he does not want to put a mercury-based compound in there, what right have you to force him?

Re:The really sad thing is vaccines improving (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 8 months ago | (#45622593)

I said there are nasal spray versions of them. Preparation is not an issue.

The problem is you've never seen people with polio (it's back), measles, rubella, or other fun things, and have no idea how bad those are.

You think you do, but you don't.

Now stop eating your mercury-laced sushi and shark meat and get real.

Re:The really sad thing is vaccines improving (5, Informative)

compro01 (777531) | about 8 months ago | (#45622615)

You could at least get your talking points from somewhere that at least updates them. Thiomersal is gone from all childhood vaccines except flu, and even then it's only in the multidose vials.

And guess what? The removal hasn't done anything to autism rates or anything else.

stop the sensationalist crap (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about 8 months ago | (#45622265)

Bottom line, normally 60 cases a year, but spike was 175 cases. so what, that is nothing. measles therefore is not a concern in this country.

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (3, Insightful)

pezpunk (205653) | about 8 months ago | (#45622297)

tell that to the 175 cases. the attitude that "measles is not a concern in this country" will only ensure that rates triple again next year and the year after.

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (1)

rubycodez (864176) | about 8 months ago | (#45622359)

* ensure rates triple again next year and the year after. *

that is called even "more sensationalist crap."

more people will choke to death eating perfectly healthy food than ever die from measles. measles is nothing to worry about in the USA. no one you know will get measles.

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622473)

You know I am starting to think there is an xkcd for everything :)

http://xkcd.com/1161/

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (5, Informative)

samkass (174571) | about 8 months ago | (#45622511)

Measles is tracked in part because it's really easily preventable with a safe vaccine which had eliminated it on the North American content a decade ago, and because it's one of the single most virulent diseases known to man. In a susceptible population, breathing the same air of someone who has it will make you 90% likely to get it. Many of the "pandemic" worst case scenarios is the measles virus combining with a more deadly virus to create a super virus, but even without that measles complications are common and can lead to permanently reduced vision, encephalitis leading to brain injuries, or other long-term problems. In the developed world the death rate is something like 0.3%, but in the undeveloped world it's sometimes over 25%. Nasty, easily preventable stuff worth tracking.

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622619)

> triple...that is called even "more sensationalist crap."

Exactly. Republicans like pezpunk are unable to do Maths because they don't believe in Maths. You are correct that the number of dead children will not triple. It will increase exponentially. That is what Republicans want. They don't want minorities to be allowed to have healthcare so that their children die from lack of vaccinations. Killing minority children is an important part of pexpunk's agenda.

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622663)

more people will choke to death eating perfectly healthy food than ever die from measles.

We must outlaw eating food then! Food is obviously not safe!

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (1)

cheekyjohnson (1873388) | about 8 months ago | (#45622705)

tell that to the 175 cases.

What a meaningless thing to say. Everything seems bigger and more frightening when you're affected by it.

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622387)

Yeah, but we get so few opportunities to talk about herd immunity and Jenny McCarthy.

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (1)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 8 months ago | (#45622437)

It used to be a concern. Vaccination stopped that. Vaccination will continue to keep it stopped only so long as people use it.

Only one disease has ever been completly eradicated from the wild. Polio has been tantalisingly close for years too, but a different strain of anti-vax has been hindering eradication. Measles, however, is still there... simmering. Just waiting for the chance to make a resurgence.

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (1)

compro01 (777531) | about 8 months ago | (#45622499)

Only one disease has ever been completly eradicated from the wild.

Actually, two now. Rinderpest (a virus in the same genus as measles that infected cattle, buffalo, and such) was declared eradicated in 2011 and the last known case was in 2001.

Re:stop the sensationalist crap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622573)

Wow, killing three times as many children doesn't mean anything to you? You're obviously one of those Republicans. Children just don't matter to you people.

Mandotory insurance (2, Insightful)

fermion (181285) | about 8 months ago | (#45622279)

Make these people buy mandatory insurance with a special rider in case they get sick. The public should not have to cover a penny of their medical bills.

Hopefully these people are not allowed in public or private schools or daycare. We care enough about our dogs and cats to not let them in kennels and grooming situations unless they have vaccinations. Why should we care about kids any less. I mean if someone want to start a vac-free school where everyone is not vaccinated, that is their right, but we shouldn't put innocent kids at risk.

Re:Mandotory insurance (1)

GameMaster (148118) | about 8 months ago | (#45622367)

Uhm, no. That's stupid. First off, that doesn't protect the children themselves (who aren't to blame for their parents' stupidity). Secondly, that doesn't 100% protect the other people in society who are at risk (babies too young to be vaccinated yet; the percentage of people for whom the vaccine simply doesn't work for that exists for ANY vaccine; etc.) The only way something like this might work would be if we put every one of these fmilies under guarded 24/7/365 house arrest for the rest of their lives to make sure they don't spread the disease while doing things like waiting in line at the supermarket. At that point, again, it's a lot more humane to the blameless child to just forcibly vaccinate them by court order.

Re:Mandotory insurance (3, Interesting)

ewieling (90662) | about 8 months ago | (#45622565)

Wouldn't failing to get your child vaccinated be covered under existing child endangerment, reckless endangerment, or public endangerment laws?

Re:Mandotory insurance (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622369)

Yeah, it's called Obama care.

Re:Mandotory insurance (1)

pr0fessor (1940368) | about 8 months ago | (#45622419)

Public schools here do not allow students to attend unless they are vaccinated {I know this cause the school sends out reminders so you are never late}. They would have to go to a private school but I think the only private school here requires them also. I live in the US-midwest.

Re:Mandotory insurance (2)

clarkn0va (807617) | about 8 months ago | (#45622435)

And while you're at it, smokers, drug users, fast drivers, skydivers, safari goers, daredevils, worriers, hipsters, teamsters, mobsters, masturbaters, adulterers, tax evaders, loud talkers, smooth talkers, buffalo hunters, fast eaters, people who drive more than 5 km per day, GMO eaters, doughnut eaters, coffee drinkers, people who don't brush their teeth three times per day, people who don't eat enough vegetables, and people who eat too many vegetables.

YOURE NOT THE BOSS OF ME! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622443)

Make these people buy mandatory insurance

Holy crap everybody, it's Rip Van Winkle back from visiting the little people!

I hope (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622285)

that they learn their lesson and get the kids vaccinated against other diseases before it is too late...

So.. (5, Insightful)

benjfowler (239527) | about 8 months ago | (#45622301)

So... this is what happens when you don't use your brain -- and you take medical advice from a stripper.

Re:So.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622461)

You post irrelevant drivel on /.?

A few incovenient truths... (-1)

CajunArson (465943) | about 8 months ago | (#45622305)

Fact: In the 1970's more people got vaccinations that today.
Fact: Atheism is more popular now in the U.S. than it was in the 1970's.
Conclusion: Atheism leads to a wave of anti-science bigotry that results in people not getting immunized. Case in point: Jenny McCarthy.

WAIT WHAT? You say that's a correlation == causation strawman argument?!!??!?!?

YOU'RE RIGHT IT IS!
So is the snide comment in the original post that is automatically taken as "gospel" truth by people who have bigotry against other people based on their beliefs but justify being bigoted in the name of "science" with just as much logic to support their beliefs as was common when eugenics was the latest word in "science".

Re:A few incovenient truths... (1)

NoOneInParticular (221808) | about 8 months ago | (#45622375)

Wait. What? Atheism being more popular today than in the 70's? That definitely needs a citation.You've got a warped sense of history.

Re:A few incovenient truths... (1)

lgw (121541) | about 8 months ago | (#45622575)

Was there a spike in the 70s or something? Not as I recall. Quoth Wikipedia

At some points in the 1950s, almost all Americans identified themselves with a particular religion. In recent years, more than 1 in 10 Americans tell survey interviewers they have no formal religious identity.[35]

Re:A few incovenient truths... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622613)

more than 1 in 10 Americans tell survey interviewers they have no formal religious identity.

Which isn't necessarily atheism.

Re:A few incovenient truths... (1)

lgw (121541) | about 8 months ago | (#45622659)

It's a subset, though: plenty of atheists go to church, for social reasons. Very few people believe in some vague idea of God not associated with any religious system, again for social reasons.

Re:A few incovenient truths... (1)

JMZero (449047) | about 8 months ago | (#45622579)

You say that's a correlation == causation strawman argument?... So is the snide comment in the original post

Do you know what a strawman argument is? You're saying that the original post here is a strawman argument.. but where's the strawman? What is the other position that's being misrepresented?

So is the snide comment in the original post

What is the snide comment? The summary, which is all most of the posters would have read, is pretty much a list of facts. I mean:

Around 90 percent of the people who have had measles in this country were not vaccinated either because they refused, or were not vaccinated on time.

There's not really any spin there, that's just what happened.

And are you really, really taking the position that an increased number of measles cases, where we know that most of the infected weren't vaccinated, is just spuriously correlated to more people not getting vaccinated? That's really where you're at? Do you understand how impossible it would be to gain knowledge about the world if this is how you reasoned?

Hmm. There's no milk in the fridge. Also, I drank all the milk last night. But let's not go jumping to conclusions here. There seems to be correlation, but we can't reason based on that. I really want to choke whoever started the current "correlation is not causation" meme - it's true, but it's mostly used now as an excuse to discount reasonably valid evidence, often in favor of humanity-embarrassing stuff like this:

I'll buy that GW is dangerous when ALGORE sells his beach house and carbon-neutrally composts his $100*10^6 from Qatar

Yeah, this is how we should do reasoning. We should look at the behavior of people that espouse positions, and if we detect any hypocrisy then their position must be wrong.

A case of a rich nation blaming developing ones... (2, Insightful)

bogaboga (793279) | about 8 months ago | (#45622333)

that measles cases in the U.S. spiked this year, rising to three times their recent average rate. It's partly due to a greater number of people traveling to the U.S. when they're infectious...

I find it interesting that in times when there's been greater scrutiny of who comes to the US, and in some cases tourist dollars having significantly reduced because of the tougher US visa regime and other factors [dailymail.co.uk] , there are articles like those quoted that "blame" the incidence of disease on outsiders. Incredible!!

The USA should man up and state categorically that some of its citizens are behaving like uneducated villagers by refusing to vaccinate. Do not blame those you call aliens because measles has been and still is on the decline everywhere else.

What will happen when polio strikes?

Re:A case of a rich nation blaming developing ones (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622665)

Who said anything about blame? In order for an outbreak to occur, you need a source for the infection as well as a vulnerable population. The article is simply stating that increased travel provides more sources of infection, while anti-science idiots in the United States provide the vulnerable population.

Yes, if the U.S. got the vaccination situation under control, no one would be particularly concerned about measles exposed visitors. That doesn't mean they aren't a factor in this present situation.

Re:A case of a rich nation blaming developing ones (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622679)

What will happen when polio strikes?

He'll probably have some free time to get himself and his kids vaccinated. Possibly sign up for some government programs as well.

Or maybe it's the vaccine (1, Interesting)

labnet (457441) | about 8 months ago | (#45622335)

Just last month, a friends kids class had 8 become infected with measles, but they were all vaccinated.

Re:Or maybe it's the vaccine (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622389)

Doesn't the vaccine become less effective when people are not vaccinated because it gives it a chance to mutate?

Re:Or maybe it's the vaccine (2)

GameMaster (148118) | about 8 months ago | (#45622581)

No vaccine is EVER 100% effective for all people. That is, simply, the nature of vaccines and why many of these articles talk about "herd immunity". The reason we still see diseases effectively disappear when vaccines are implemented correctly is that a truly successful vaccine (like this one) will work for a large enough percentage of the population to ensure that it's statistically unlikely that a person who doesn't have the protection will encounter someone who is carrying the disease. The problem is that, the way the statistics work, it doesn't take the number of anti-vaccine nutters to be very large before the numbers reach a kind of tipping point and the number of outbreaks starts to dramatically increase. Also, as with anything statistic based, one anecdotal event (or even a few) like the one you described is meaningless in this discussion.

Re:Or maybe it's the vaccine (1)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | about 8 months ago | (#45622713)

8 people, eh? Well that's a representative sample. Of fuck all.

Tat''s OK (3, Funny)

arthurpaliden (939626) | about 8 months ago | (#45622361)

At least they didn't develop autism

Re:Tat''s OK (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622693)

Is that supposed to be a pun about tattooing? Of course a tattoo needle won't vaccinate you. It might give you hepatitis among other things, if it's not sterile. Millions of people voluntarily ink themselves...

Vaccinations discriminate against middle class (4, Interesting)

tompaulco (629533) | about 8 months ago | (#45622425)

I have insurance. My insurance covers vaccinations. However, my primary care provider will not administer vaccinations because they agreed to a contracted amount with the insurance company but they don't feel that that amount is enough. I called several other primary care physicians who similarly refused to administer vaccinations. I finally got one that agreed to do it but only if I also did a well child checkup, which would cost hundreds of dollars. All of these doctors suggested I go to the Health Department. So I did, and stood in line for a long time, to be told that you had to be on state aid in order to get vaccinations from the state.
Walgreen's and other facilities would do vaccinations, but my insurance would not pay because they are not a Primary Care facility. I would have to pay full price.
So basically, I have to pay for insurance which covers vaccinations AND I still have to pay full price for vaccinations, while if I were poor, I would neither have to pay for insurance nor pay for vaccinations.
To me, the fact that a Doctor can refuse to perform a service because they don't like their profit margin on it even though the AGREED to accept that amount in their contract, is BS. This is akin to a retailer advertising a model of TV for a cheap price, but not having ever even purchased any of said model to be sold.

Re:Vaccinations discriminate against middle class (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622487)

Your story is bullshit. It is illegal for Doctors in the US to refuse to administer vaccines.

Re:Vaccinations discriminate against middle class (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622689)

I don't think so. A while back, I wanted to travel to a foreign country that the CDC recommended a "more obscure" vaccination. My doctor didn't stock it. And she wouldn't buy a vial of 20+ doses to sell me one. She sent me to a county health clinic who had the vaccine in stock. They charged a reasonable fee. I don't remember if insurance covered it or not.

Re:Vaccinations discriminate against middle class (0)

lgw (121541) | about 8 months ago | (#45622635)

To me, the fact that a Doctor can refuse to perform a service because they don't like their profit margin on it even though the AGREED to accept that amount in their contract, is BS. This is akin to a retailer advertising a model of TV for a cheap price, but not having ever even purchased any of said model to be sold.

I suspect you'll find the doctor didn't agree to perform the service at that price, but instead they agreed that if they were to perform the service, they would only get paid $X. They might well give vaccinations to people with different insurance, where the insurance pays enough.

I still don't understand why anyone would turn to insurance for predictable expenses - that's like getting car insurance that covers gas and tires. Just seems crazy to me.

Re:Vaccinations discriminate against middle class (2)

tompaulco (629533) | about 8 months ago | (#45622765)

I still don't understand why anyone would turn to insurance for predictable expenses - that's like getting car insurance that covers gas and tires. Just seems crazy to me.

I don't. If it was up to me, I would have REAL insurance, ie Major Medical, ie High Deductible insurance. However, my company at the moment only has health plans. Since I am paying for this health plan, and since part of paying for that health plan includes paying for the coverage for vaccinations, then I expect to be able to use the service I have paid for.
If I had not paid for the insurance I would be both wiling and also more able to afford to pay full price for the vaccination.

Actually, this is bullshit. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622439)

How do you spread a disease?

How about this: Inject a few million people with the virus and release them into the population.

It's vaccinated people who now carry and spread sickness. Not those who are uninfected.

Don't like the sound of that? Sorry. The science holds on this one.

http://www.sott.net/article/269563-You-will-never-look-at-vaccinated-children-the-same-Shedding-Viruses [sott.net]

Re:Actually, this is bullshit. (1)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | about 8 months ago | (#45622701)

How do you spread a disease?

How about this: Inject a few million people with the virus and release them into the population.

It's vaccinated people who now carry and spread sickness. Not those who are uninfected.

Don't like the sound of that? Sorry. The science holds on this one.

http://www.sott.net/article/269563-You-will-never-look-at-vaccinated-children-the-same-Shedding-Viruses [sott.net]

Let me know when the mothership arrives.

Leave it to Phil... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622481)

It's unclear how much religious beliefs themselves were behind the outbreaks in Brooklyn and North Carolina; it may have been due to widespread secular anti-vax beliefs in those tight-knit groups. But either way, a large proportion of the people in those areas were unvaccinated.
 
Knee jerk much Phil? Just jump right to religion? Really? Most of the anti-vaxxers I know of do it because they think there are side effects associated with the treatment. I know there are people out there who "trust god" over medical science but they're few and far between in comparison of those who hold western medicine in contempt.
 
Phil Plait has such a chip on his shoulder it makes him painful to listen to if he's not staying strictly on topic. Even look at his pictures.... he looks like someone just pissed in his corn flakes in every picture I've ever seen of him.
 
Why do asshats like this thrive when decent people like Carl Sagan die?

better than autism (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622501)

Better than autism

Not to worry (5, Insightful)

arthurpaliden (939626) | about 8 months ago | (#45622583)

After reports of half a dozen or so children dying because they were not vaccinated parents will start getting their children vaccinated again. Pitty some kids will have to die first though.

polio cases annually before vaccine released (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45622609)

Find out how many people got polio in each year before the vaccine came out

Jenny McCarthy (1)

bricko (1052210) | about 8 months ago | (#45622633)

That is why Jenny McCarthy should be on death row.
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