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NASA's Next Mars Mission Will Join the Interplanetary Internet

Soulskill posted about 7 months ago | from the buffering-buffering-buffering dept.

Mars 53

New submitter radioedit writes "When the MAVEN orbiter arrives at Mars on 22 September 2014, the spacecraft will join up with the other seven nodes of NASA's interplanetary internet, exchanging data with orbiters, rovers on the surface, and us back on Earth using delay-tolerant protocols. It's the latest part of Vint Cerf's mission (video) to create a giant antenna array across the solar system that'll be able to receive signals by laser from Alpha Centauri."

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53 comments

slashdot, wtf? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684571)

We don't want your beta. We thought we made that mighty clear.

We want a 2004-era slashdot interface.

Re:slashdot, wtf? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684775)

Can I piss in your ass, please? It gives me great pleasure. I will also pay you a kingly sum of .04 Bitcoins for the privilege.

Re:slashdot, wtf? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45687145)

We don't want your beta. We thought we made that mighty clear.

We want a 2004-era slashdot interface.

You start by looking at the bottom of the page, where you find this link [slashdot.org] .

D1 still exists. (1)

Tenebrousedge (1226584) | about 7 months ago | (#45687377)

So sign in.

The D1 discussion system still works the same way. You don't have to worry about posting to undo moderation (although forgetting to moderate is more of a risk). On the possibly-negative side, you will tend to use a lot of tabs to see threads below your threshold. I recommend a tree view tab organizer, which has the additional benefit of being a far more sensible way to browse online source code.

It is a few mouse clicks and a registration form away. For interested account holders, from your Account menu, select Discussions, and then 'Classic Discussion System (D1)'. Choosing not to sign in is an option, but I would tend to expect that the interface provided to the unauthenticated masses would be geared towards, well, mass appeal. The interface you're after still exists and is just as useful as it ever was -- I hope signing in isn't too much of a bother. I haven't noticed any UI changes.

Who the fuck is on alpha centauri with a laser? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684581)

Why would I care what such an asshole had to say?

Re:Who the fuck is on alpha centauri with a laser? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45685751)

Slashdot is a minor Space Nutter church, and someone who is getting ready to receive laser beams from Rigil Kent is a priest. Calling such a person an asshole is religious bigotry.

Re:Who the fuck is on alpha centauri with a laser? (1)

weilawei (897823) | about 7 months ago | (#45686805)

I wonder, it's not like you make use of TCP/IP every day, and the guy didn't co-invent it or anything.

NASA's interplanetary internet just formed (5, Funny)

Spy Handler (822350) | about 7 months ago | (#45684603)

and NSA is already snooping

Snooping (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684915)

you are so paranoid! The REAL reason is that all these nodes will acheve a consciousness that will destroy ALL of us!

signals by laser from Alpha Centauri (3, Funny)

bob_super (3391281) | about 7 months ago | (#45684643)

Latency of 9 years for a round-trip, and there I thought that calling the helpdesk was slow...

Re:signals by laser from Alpha Centauri (2)

ubrgeek (679399) | about 7 months ago | (#45684717)

And that's without Verizon capping the monthly bandwidth for NASA's Unlimited Internet plan.

Re:signals by laser from Alpha Centauri (2)

hraponssi (1939850) | about 7 months ago | (#45684855)

What did you expect. It's Maven crawling along like an Ant. Just infinitely more complex and bloated.

Re:signals by laser from Alpha Centauri (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684865)

Not to mention, no more sniping eBay auctions...

Re:signals by laser from Alpha Centauri (1)

anyanka (1953414) | about 7 months ago | (#45684871)

True – but seriously, if we could get a continuous stream of images and other data back, the four year delay wouldn't matter that much. Of course, the probe would have to be fully autonomous, not need any patching and be prepared to expect the unexpected.

Re:signals by laser from Alpha Centauri (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45686125)

It doesn't matter so long as the data stream meets the recipient's needs.

If you start yelling at the receiver, "No No NO! Pan to the left and zoom in!". Well it takes 4 years for your feedback to get there and another 4 years for you to receive the new images. And that assumes the data source is willing to follow your instructions!

Re:signals by laser from Alpha Centauri (1)

gravis777 (123605) | about 7 months ago | (#45697477)

You think the latency is bad, this will be the slowest deployment roleout in history

Re:signals by laser from Alpha Centauri (1)

edcalaban (1077719) | about 7 months ago | (#45702883)

Think about it this way: you can retire when you close your first ticket!

Network structure (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684651)

I wonder if they use IPv4 or IPv6.
And did NASA already pre-allocate subnets and create routing tables for the other planets in advance?

Re:Network structure (3, Interesting)

unixisc (2429386) | about 7 months ago | (#45684869)

I was wondering that as well. Actually, I daresay we might need IPv7, w/ 512 bits of addressing, since we have no idea how many aliens are out there, & how many interplanetary nodes would be needed. Earth would have a /384 subnet, and within that, IPv6 would be contained.

Re:Network structure (1)

deains (1726012) | about 7 months ago | (#45684987)

Perhaps we should start by assigning an IP address to every star in the galaxy, and see how many are left over. Or we could try area codes.

Re:Network structure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45686883)

1. Start with 2^128 to get 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 IPv6 addresses.
2. Subtract a hundred billion addresses for all the stars in our galaxy to get 340282366920938463463374607331768211456 IPv6 addresses left.
3. Feel silly.

Another way of looking at it is every solar system in the milky way would only get 3402823669209384634633746074 addresses each.

Re:Network structure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45688113)

1. Start with 2^128 to get 340282366920938463463374607431768211456 IPv6 addresses.
2. Subtract a hundred billion addresses for all the stars in our galaxy to get 340282366920938463463374607331768211456 IPv6 addresses left.
3. Feel silly.

Another way of looking at it is every solar system in the milky way would only get 3402823669209384634633746074 addresses each.

While the addresses in IPv6 are still sufficient you underestimate the possible future need.
We have close to 7 billion people on this planet. If we want everyone to have enough addresses for all their devices we need to reserve at least a hundred billion addresses for Earth. If we want the addresses to be enough for a ten times as large population then a trillion addresses per habitable planet is necessary to be safe.
I have no idea how many addresses one would want to reserve for autonomous devices on inhabitable planets (Mining drones?) but if we assume that it will be in the same ballpark as the number on an inhabited planet then we at least have a number.
If we look at our own solar system we know that moons are just as interesting as planets. This means that we shouldn't think in the lines of ten planets per star but rather in the lines of a hundred planets per star.

I wouldn't reserve just a hundred billion addresses for the milky way. With a possible 400 billion stars I would think more in the lines of 40 septillion addresses per galaxy.
Still leaves plenty of addresses left.

Re:Network structure (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about 7 months ago | (#45688679)

Point is
  • - We don't know how many other stars are there, then planets
  • - We don't know the populations on these planets that are likely to need this

Therefore, saving just one 128 bit subnet for earth, and making all the rest available for the others would be the right approach. Earth's IPv6 would be unaffected, while outside earth, anybody making their own systems can be co-opted by this superset IP

Re:Network structure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45685157)

I don't think a fixed address field is suitable. Rather I would like to see an optional address extension for addressing extrasolar networks. I feel like most traffic will be local anyway. Doesn't seem necessary to add the extra address bits to everything.

Re:Network structure (1)

user32.ExitWindowsEx (250475) | about 7 months ago | (#45686165)

I read somewhere that there are less than 2^128 atoms in the universe, so we don't need IPv7 until we have cross-universe networking.

Re:Network structure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45686855)

This should not be +5 on a tech site.

IPv6 address space has enough publicly accessible addresses to give over 100 Billion IPs to every person on the planet. There is almost enough addresses for every molecule in the observable universe. It is also NAT/PAT compliant, so yeah, if we had to we could easily address every single boson in the universe. IPv6 is functionally infinite.

Re:Network structure (1)

unixisc (2429386) | about 7 months ago | (#45688699)

Yeah, but that's b'cos we know the limits of what's on earth. What we don't know are the limits of what's outside it - see my above response to a different poster. Last thing you want is to get stuck w/ another conversion, so it makes sense to try & get that right. Also, going to an IPv7 would allow earth's IPv6 to continue unaltered, while being co-opted in an IPv7 (similar to earlier attempts to have an IPv4-mapped IPv6)

Re:Network structure (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45685129)

Even if it is IP, it will not be TCP. The IETF has fought against bandwidth resistant protocols for at least as long as I've followed them since going to quarterly meetings from 1988 until 1990. They want to push faster bandwidth and lower latency, which is a good thing, but they just don't get reality. Currently, I manage a network for a company that owns several chains of restaurants. For example, in Seattle we have 10s of seconds of RTT from our data center to several of our restaurants. We used to have point to point 56k lines, and they had very low latency, but with the mileage fees, they're just too expensive. Now we use CenturlyLink Internet over DSL. Thank you CenturyLink for horrifically slow lines and your huge buffers that make the latency intolerable. Also, most of the packet loss on CenturyLink's DSL lines are not related to congestion, but TCP makes the assumption that all packet loss is congestion-related and incorrectly slows down. TCP just doesn't work very well under those conditions. We get much better throughput with UDP and handling dropped packets in our application code. It's a pain, but it is necessary because the IETF just doesn't damn get it. Not all of us have fast connections. Some of us are stuck with no options other than the local telco that has too much latency and too much non-congestion packetloss to make TCP usable. We need a new protocol now if we want to be able to be able to use the Internet in backwards places like Seattle.

Re:Network structure (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45689283)

I had to use a gprs modem for internet uplink once for a longer period of time. Which gives you about the same latency if you don't configure your line. Some simple traffic shaping on the client side could give you much better performance on the same shitty line and provider. By reducing the amount of data living in the buffers of your provider you get semi-normal rtt times. If you are using a linux router you should check out wondershaper.

Re:Network structure (1)

weilawei (897823) | about 7 months ago | (#45690101)

If you'd read the fine article, you'd notice that they apply a protocol (the Bundle protocol) *over* the existing stack. You may continue to use TCP where appropriate.

What laser? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684659)

Will this system be operational when we arrive at Alpha Centauri in a thousand years or so, or are we expecting a signal from LGM?

Re:What laser? (3, Insightful)

unixisc (2429386) | about 7 months ago | (#45684883)

First, it needs to be built into Civ or FreeCiv

Planet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684731)

Watch out for fungal blooms

Gives Me An Idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684741)

Going to go to a beach on the West coast, tap a stick on the water, people on the beach in the East of Japan should be able to pick up the Morse-code messages I'm tapping out to them.

Yeah but there is a huge flaw there... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684787)

Where is our lovely probe on its way to Alpha Centauri?

I'm telling you, I can't wait for the actual space age, when we have an actual presence in space.
When private industry gets its hands on the raw, hopefully cheaper materials from space mining, the things they will do will be limitless.

I say can't wait, we'll all likely be dead by then. Maybe me first. 27 going on 92. Gray hairs EVERYWHERE. HELP.
Na but really, even in 50 years time there should hopefully be some progress.
I'll likely still be dead before then. PLEASE. I want to be a space trucker daddy!

Re:Yeah but there is a huge flaw there... (1)

cusco (717999) | about 7 months ago | (#45687189)

When private industry gets its hands on the raw, hopefully cheaper materials from space mining, the things they will do will be limitless.

Not the way that private industry is run today. Corporations need to get beyond the "maximum short-term ROI" mindset that has ruled it for the past two centuries, and I see no sign of that happening nor any logical path that might lead it to happen. If private industry were interested in the long-term we'd have solar power satellites by now.

Queue Hackers taking control of the Mars Rovers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684813)

I just wouldn't expect a man in the middle attack.

Re:Queue Hackers taking control of the Mars Rovers (1)

MRe_nl (306212) | about 7 months ago | (#45684909)

Any Siemens PLC's on board of the Mars Rovers?

Re:Queue Hackers taking control of the Mars Rovers (1)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 7 months ago | (#45685715)

NASA doesn't need hackers. They will do fine by themselves mixing up feet and yards and meters.

Imagine (2)

BringsApples (3418089) | about 7 months ago | (#45684891)

An internet for your own use, with no worries about ass-hats fucking with it, or trying to break it. Just think of all of the (non-hardware) obstacles that they don't have to worry about. Surely they have their own fair share of difficulties that we don't have to deal with here on Earth, but they're free to deal with those obstacles in an environment that we all would love.

Re:Imagine (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45685351)

It's called cosmonet. Get some!

Will Mr. Cerf's Profile Pic (2)

retroworks (652802) | about 7 months ago | (#45684945)

Consume all the bandwidth? My god, the article is scary with his face taking up the 23" LCD screen. Hope that doesn't take off, he invaded my personal space.

This is the reason MAVEN got launched (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684961)

The only way they could justify the launch after sequestration was the communications angle.

mission accomplished! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684963)

it only works if you pee in her butt in zero gravity with her mouth open waiting for a few treasured drops of urine.

News Flash: MS to BUY Samsung (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45684971)

Wants phones (pussy) galore!

2014? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45685253)

But, ISON will have already destroyed us by then... what's the point?

I like the meme (1)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 7 months ago | (#45685693)

Namely being a laser pointed somewhere not necessarily to shoot and kill. The US and esp. Cerf's boss might learn something from it.

mod4 up (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45686415)

it si8ple,

Domain Name? (1)

arthurpaliden (939626) | about 7 months ago | (#45686827)

How do I go about getting a .mars domain name?

Re:Domain Name? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45687201)

How do I go about getting a .mars domain name?

Oh, that's so easy...

  1. Send an application for a new gTLD and the $5,000 application fee to ICANN.
  2. Hope your application gets approved.
  3. Pay the rest of the $185,000.

Shouldn't be too hard, right?

Wow, this was sad (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#45687633)

I opened up the article, expecting some kind of intelligent commentary.

Instead I get the digital equivalent of monkies throwing feces around. On an article about building an interplanetary internet! As if people do not care anymore.

Luckily I didn't yet find some kind of ranting about how good/bad Obamacare is.

What the hell is wrong with you?!

Mars colonists (1)

atomicxblue (1077017) | about 7 months ago | (#45694605)

I keep thinking what the reaction will be when the Mars colonists start torrenting.. "Yeah? What you going to do about it? If you can get here, you can arrest me.."
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