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Chang'e-3 Lunar Rover Landing Slated For 13:40 UTC Saturday

timothy posted about 4 months ago | from the easy-does-it dept.

Moon 90

savuporo writes "The Chinese Chang'e-3 probe will be landing on the moon [Saturday], 13:40 UTC. CCTV is likely to carry the event live as they did for initial launch. According to technical overview of the mission scenario and instruments, the landing will be fully autonomous with active landing hazard avoidance, which is the first time this has been attempted on any planetary landing. More real-time updates can be found on Twitter with ChangE3 hash tag and NASASpaceFlight forums live event section."

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Place your bets... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688121)

Place your bets on something going wrong. Cause you know, China is known for things that explode or catch fire that shouldn't.

Re:Place your bets... (5, Insightful)

Trax3001BBS (2368736) | about 4 months ago | (#45688181)

Place your bets on something going wrong. Cause you know, China is known for things that explode or catch fire that shouldn't.

I hoping them the best, sry.

My hope (2)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 4 months ago | (#45688367)

Place your bets on something going wrong. Cause you know, China is known for things that explode or catch fire that shouldn't.

I hoping them the best, sry.

I hope that the fruit of human space exploration would be share to all countries in the world.

It makes no sense to play politics in space.

Re:My hope (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 4 months ago | (#45688611)

It makes no sense to play politics in space.

Sure it does. Politics is played on many levels.

For an analogy, use deep ocean sailing. Historically, it has been difficult and dangerous. To the point where even avowed enemies would help each other out in times of distress (and sometimes during periods of simply sovereign state competition). One day the other guy may be helping tow your vessel off some rocks, the next week they are shooting at you. Humans and weird and complex. Politics always follows human endeavors. In some cases, it precedes it.

Sad, but so often true; politics is everywhere (3, Insightful)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 4 months ago | (#45689063)

Great example; the same is true of people living in harsh climates like snowy areas -- or even, like on slashdot of people giving each other technological advice yet probably working in competing companies. One might even see that in a marriage -- with spouses working together when a child is sick yet also squabbling over housework... Life is at the interface of fire and ice, meshwork and hierarchy, competition and cooperation...

Politics is a process of resource allocation by discussion (backed ultimately by violence and also gift-giving or its withdrawal), as opposed to, say, mainstream US capitalist/consumer economics which is about resource allocation by moving the digital equivalent of pieces of artificially-scarce green paper around (within a larger US political context, as above backed by violence and gift-giving or its withdrawal). Yet, there is no reasons those communications and currencies could not be emails and IRC chats and bug tracker pstings, like coordinates much of Debian GNU/Linux.
http://linux.slashdot.org/story/08/04/14/1349202/study-reports-on-debian-governance-social-organization [slashdot.org]

So, it is not unreasonable to say that wherever human go, they will take some aspects of all that along. My father travelled the world as a merchant marine sailor for about twenty years, and one of his favorite sayings was a variation on "wherever you go, you take yourself along".

Yet. I think there is a deeper issue like mentioned in my sig. China has demonstrated new technologies of abundance by putting a robot on the moon powered by solar and nuclear technologies. Those technologies could produce physical abundance for all by today's standards -- even for trillions of people via self-replicating space habitats. That is a new truth. It can be a new truth even if probably humans may always find things to squabble about, like two kids in a room filled with toys can fight over the same one for whatever reasons of the moment.

Yet, such new technologies in a way make the world a smaller place, like the how the US space program to put a man on the moon in the 1960s was seen in US government as only justified in getting lots of funding in order to show the USSR that the USA was capable of landing a nuclear missile on Red Square. So many technologies can make the world smaller and smaller relative to our capacity to use such technologies to cause harm, like I write about here:
http://www.pdfernhout.net/recognizing-irony-is-a-key-to-transcending-militarism.html [pdfernhout.net]
"There is a fundamental mismatch between 21st century reality and 20th century security thinking. Those "security" agencies are using those tools of abundance, cooperation, and sharing mainly from a mindset of scarcity, competition, and secrecy. Given the power of 21st century technology as an amplifier (including as weapons of mass destruction), a scarcity-based approach to using such technology ultimately is just making us all insecure. Such powerful technologies of abundance, designed, organized, and used from a mindset of scarcity could well ironically doom us all whether through military robots, nukes, plagues, propaganda, or whatever else... Or alternatively, as Bucky Fuller and others have suggested, we could use such technologies to build a world that is abundant and secure for all."

We may always have competition between people for various reasons (the mating dance?), yet our society can still figure out ways to structure that competition in healthier ways.
"No contest: the case against competition"
http://www.shareintl.org/archives/cooperation/co_nocontest.htm [shareintl.org]
"We need competition in order to survive."
  "Life is boring without competition."
"It is competition that gives us meaning in life."
These words written by American college students capture a sentiment that runs through the heart of the USA and appears to be spreading throughout the world. To these students, competition is not simply something one does, it is the very essence of existence. When asked to imagine a world without competition, they can foresee only rising prices, declining productivity and a general collapse of the moral order. Some truly believe we would cease to exist were it not for competition.
    Alfie Kohn, author of No contest: the case against competition, disagrees completely. He argues that competition is essentially detrimental to every important aspect of human experience; our relationships, self-esteem, enjoyment of leisure, and even productivity would all be improved if we were to break out of the pattern of relentless competition. Far from being idealistic speculation, his position is anchored in hundreds of research studies and careful analysis of the primary domains of competitive interaction. For those who see themselves assisting in a transition to a less competitive world, Kohn's book will be an invaluable resource.

James. P. Hogans 1982 sci-fi novel "Voyage from Yesteryear" provide a great example of a mythical society where the urge to compete for status turns into a quest for excellence and sharing...

Although the US and Canada managed to stamp a lot of that out in the 1800s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potlatch [wikipedia.org]
"At potlatch gatherings, a family or hereditary leader hosts guests in their family's house and holds a feast for their guests. The main purpose of the potlatch is the redistribution and reciprocity of wealth. ... Potlatching was made illegal in Canada in 1884 in an amendment to the Indian Act[10] and the United States in the late 19th century, largely at the urging of missionaries and government agents who considered it "a worse than useless custom" that was seen as wasteful, unproductive, and contrary to civilized values."

We have seen a resurgence of that though with the movement towards free and open source software, towards free and open content like with Wikipedia and blogs, towards free and open 3D objects via the Maker movement, and so on... And now via efforts towards free and open space systems,,,
http://slashdot.org/story/13/12/06/1421226/visual-guide-the-making-of-a-diy-space-capsule [slashdot.org]

My own small efforts in that direction, the second link being with others:
http://www.kurtz-fernhout.com/oscomak/ [kurtz-fernhout.com]
http://www.openvirgle.net/ [openvirgle.net]

A great project by others specific to the Moon:
http://openluna.org/ [openluna.org]
"The OpenLuna Foundation's mission is to extend humanityâ(TM)s reach into space. OpenLuna is embarking on a systematic program of robotic missions combined with extensive public relations, educational, and outreach campaigns. Following the robotic missions, a short series of crewed missions will take place, culminating in the construction of a six to ten person, self-sustaining outpost on the lunar surface. The outpost will be made available for public use. ... Our research and technology are open-source allowing/requiring widespread interest, enthusiam and involvement for the education and enrichment of all. ..."

So, I can only hope that people in China start to think more deeply about what all these technologies of abundance make possible... I can hope that for the USA, too...

Re:Sad, but so often true; politics is everywhere (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45689159)


I really enjoyed watching this video about the separation process.

And the whole time I couldn't help but think there is NO way such a long detailed explanation would be given on Western TV these days. We just don't have the attention span any more. Such a shame.

Landing is a success ! (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 4 months ago | (#45688525)

Was watching the live streaming.

Landing is a success !!

Congratulation !!!!!

Yes, congrats!!!! (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 4 months ago | (#45688553)

They are unfolding the solar panel now...

Comments by me on how China's government is led now by engineers vs. US led now by lawyers: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4550453&cid=45688539 [slashdot.org]

Re:Yes, congrats!!!! (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 4 months ago | (#45688631)

You're of course 100% correct in asking for a more healthy mix in the government leadership lineup.

It's not that I've given up, but the status quo that makes up who's who list of the government of the United States of America is way too entrenched.

The revelation from Edward Snowden's files is an excellent indication that the status quo has become so arrogant that no one, not even us, the citizens of the United States, can do anything about it.

They have control over everything - from police to military to courts to banks to all kinds of essential infrastructures - there is no way we, the citizens, can change anything.

The Optimism of Uncertainty by Howard Zinn (1, Interesting)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 4 months ago | (#45688911)

On holding onto optimism about change: http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1108-21.htm [commondreams.org]
"In this awful world where the efforts of caring people often pale in comparison to what is done by those who have power, how do I manage to stay involved and seemingly happy? I am totally confident not that the world will get better, but that we should not give up the game before all the cards have been played. The metaphor is deliberate; life is a gamble. Not to play is to foreclose any chance of winning.
    To play, to act, is to create at least a possibility of changing the world. There is a tendency to think that what we see in the present moment will continue. We forget how often we have been astonished by the sudden crumbling of institutions, by extraordinary changes in people's thoughts, by unexpected eruptions of rebellion against tyrannies, by the quick collapse of systems of power that seemed invincible. What leaps out from the history of the past hundred years is its utter unpredictability. This confounds us, because we are talking about exactly the period when human beings became so ingenious technologically that they could plan and predict the exact time of someone landing on the moon, or walk down the street talking to someone halfway around the earth.
    Let's go back a hundred years. A revolution to overthrow the tsar of Russia, in that most sluggish of semi-feudal empires, not only startled the most advanced imperial powers, but took Lenin himself by surprise and sent him rushing by train to Petrograd. Given the Russian Revolution, who could have predicted Stalin's deformation of it, or Khrushchev's astounding exposure of Stalin, or Gorbachev's succession of surprises? Who would have predicted the bizarre shifts of World War II-the Nazi-Soviet pact (those embarrassing photos of von Ribbentrop and Molotov shaking hands), and the German army rolling through Russia, apparently invincible, causing colossal casualties, being turned back at the gates of Leningrad, on the western edge of Moscow, in the streets of Stalingrad, followed by the defeat of the German army, with Hitler huddled in his Berlin bunker, waiting to die?
    And then the post-war world, taking a shape no one could have drawn in advance: The Chinese Communist revolution, which Stalin himself had given little chance. And then the break with the Soviet Union, the tumultuous and violent Cultural Revolution, and then another turnabout, with post-Mao China renouncing its most fervently held ideas and institutions, making overtures to the West, cuddling up to capitalist enterprise, perplexing everyone. No one foresaw the disintegration of the old Western empires happening so quickly after the war, or the odd array of societies that would be created in the newly independent nations, from the benign village socialism of Nyerere's Tanzania to the madness of Idi Amin's adjacent Uganda.
    Spain became an astonishment. A million died in the civil war, which ended in victory for the Fascist Franco, backed by Hitler and Mussolini. I recall a veteran of the Abraham Lincoln Brigade telling me that he could not imagine Spanish Fascism being overthrown without another bloody war. But after Franco was gone, a parliamentary democracy came into being, open to Socialists, Communists, anarchists, everyone. In other places too, deeply entrenched dictatorships seemed suddenly to disintegrate -- in Portugal, Argentina, the Philippines, Iran.
  . . .
    Consider the remarkable transformation, in just a few decades, in people's consciousness of racism, in the bold presence of women demanding their rightful place, in a growing public awareness that gays are not curiosities but sensate human beings, in the long-term growing skepticism about military intervention despite brief surges of military madness. It is that long-term change that I think we must see if we are not to lose hope. Pessimism becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy; it reproduces itself by crippling our willingness to act. Revolutionary change does not come as one cataclysmic moment (beware of such moments!) but as an endless succession of surprises, moving zigzag toward a more decent society.
    We don't have to engage in grand, heroic actions to participate in the process of change. Small acts, when multiplied by millions of people, can transform the world. Even when we don't "win," there is fun and fulfillment in the fact that we have been involved, with other good people, in something worthwhile. We need hope. An optimist isn't necessarily a blithe, slightly sappy whistler in the dark of our time. To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty, but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this complex history will determine our lives. If we see only the worst, it destroys our capacity to do something. If we remember those times and places-and there are so many-where people have behaved magnificently, this gives us the energy to act, and at least the possibility of sending this spinning top of a world in a different direction. And if we do act, in however small a way, we don't have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory."

That was written by the late historian Howard Zinn. Trends play out, it is true. But there are often inflection points in curves where change is more possible. In a time of crisis, sometimes people are willing (from desperation) to try new things. Such sudden change often does not work out well for many (China's Cultural Revolution?) but sometimes things get better. As Margaret Mead talked about, small groups of concerned citizens can make change in some area many times (she put that more extremely). Technological innovations can make changes, People can make local improvements in their own communities, which can add up.

And, as I quoted elsewhere today, George Orwell wrote that people can spend a long time believing false things (trickle down economics?) and eventually they run into reality. Orwell said that often happens on a battlefield. But there are many contests where outcomes become clear. This Moon landing is one such example. India's going to Mars is another. Kerbal Space Program coming out of Mexico is a third. Each shows the spread of technological possibility into other places and other cultures and other political systems... And it is hard to predict where it will all go. As a long-time slashdotter, I can remain hopeful for the best (a basic income, medicare and organic food for all, self-replicating space habitats, hot and cold fusion and dirt-cheap solar power, and end to effectively perpetual copyright, a growing gift economy, 3D printers and household gardening robots for all, rethinking education to be more learner-centered, etc. as I could go on and on), even though I can readily imagine scenarios for the worst (e.g. bio-engineered plagues, military drones becoming Skynet, nuclear wars just by accident, etc. and I also could go on and on). As Bucky Fuller said, whether it will be Utopia or Oblivion will be a touch-and-go relay race to the very end. Or, perhaps, is that a relay race we are always running that has no finish line? Kind of like the battle against mildew in a damp basement is never ending?

Re:Yes, congrats!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688919)

It says something that I'm posting this as AC and attempted to post it over TOR, but I've been thinking about this just these past 24 hours and maybe it's not so hopeless. We are on the verge of technollgy that would give us complete independence from the grid: digital currency, internet over radio, solar panels and home generators. The greatest threat to power is not violence but disengagement.

The threat of a good example (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 4 months ago | (#45689221)

"The greatest threat to power is not violence but disengagement [from the grid network]."

Interesting point, AC. It relates to this, also by Howard Zinn:
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinncomrev24.html [historyisaweapon.com]
"However, the unexpected victories-even temporary ones-of insurgents show the vulnerability of the supposedly powerful. In a highly developed society, the Establishment cannot survive without the obedience and loyalty of millions of people who are given small rewards to keep the system going: the soldiers and police, teachers and ministers, administrators and social workers, technicians and production workers, doctors, lawyers, nurses, transport and communications workers, garbage men and firemen. These people-the employed, the somewhat privileged-are drawn into alliance with the elite. They become the guards of the system, buffers between the upper and lower classes. If they stop obeying, the system falls.
    That will happen, I think, only when all of us who are slightly privileged and slightly uneasy begin to see that we are like the guards in the prison uprising at Attic -- expendable; that the Establishment, whatever rewards it gives us, will also, if necessary to maintain its control, kill us."

Or this by Noam Chomsky:
"The Threat of a Good Example"
http://www.chomsky.info/books/unclesam01.htm [chomsky.info]
"No country is exempt from U.S. intervention, no matter how unimportant. In fact, it's the weakest, poorest countries that often arouse the greatest hysteria. ... There's a reason for that. The weaker and poorer a country is, the more dangerous it is as an example. If a tiny, poor country like Grenada can succeed in bringing about a better life for its people, some other place that has more resources will ask, "why not us?" ..."

And by Bucky Fuller:
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/165737.Richard_Buckminster_Fuller [goodreads.com]
"You never change things by fighting the existing reality.
To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete."

So yes, withdrawing support is a powerful way of change, as Gandhi used:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satyagraha [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-cooperation_movement [wikipedia.org]
"The Non-Cooperation Movement was a significant phase of the Indian struggle for freedom from British rule. It was led by Mahatma Gandhi and was supported by the Indian National Congress. After the Jallianwala Bagh incident, Gandhi started the Non Cooperation movement. It aimed to resist British occupation in India through non-violent means. Protestors would refuse to buy British goods, adopt the use of local handicrafts, picket liquor shops, and try to uphold the Indian values of honor and integrity. The ideals of Ahimsa or non-violence, and Gandhi's ability to rally hundreds of thousands of common citizens towards the cause of Indian independence, were first seen on a large scale in this movement through the summer 1920, they feared that the movement might lead to popular violence.
Among the significant causes of this movement were colonial oppression, exemplified by the Rowlatt Act and Jallianwala Bagh massacre, economic hardships to the common man due to a large chunk of Indian wealth being exported to Britain, ruin of Indian artisans due to British factory-made goods replacing handmade goods, and popular resentment with the British over Indian soldiers dying in World War I while fighting as part of the British Army, in battles that otherwise had nothing to do with India."

Or as a twist, would it really matter if most of India's wealth were exported to Britain or to a 1% of Indians who live in gated communities inside India?

Consider the US South of the 1950s:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_Bus_Boycott [wikipedia.org]
"The Montgomery Bus Boycott, a seminal event in the U.S. civil rights movement, was a political and social protest campaign against the policy of racial segregation on the public transit system of Montgomery, Alabama. The campaign lasted from December 1, 1955, when Rosa Parks, an African American woman, was arrested for refusing to surrender her seat to a white person, to December 20, 1956, when a federal ruling, Browder v. Gayle, took effect, and led to a United States Supreme Court decision that declared the Alabama and Montgomery laws requiring segregated buses to be unconstitutional.[1] Many important figures in the civil rights movement took part in the boycott, including Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr. and Ralph Abernathy."

What about the USA of today?
http://www.capitalismhitsthefan.com/ [capitalismhitsthefan.com]
http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/04/23/a-rise-in-wealth-for-the-wealthydeclines-for-the-lower-93/ [pewsocialtrends.org]
"A Rise in Wealth for the Wealthy; Declines for the Lower 93%"

That said, I don't feel the future lies in everyone disconnecting from all grids (electrical, informational, material, political, etc.) to pure subsistence. The goal in India was not to go off-grid long-term but to regain political control of their grids. Grids can be sources of wealth for all by sharing various costs to create greater benefits. It's been said it takes a village to live well in the wilderness. Also, we saw what happened to the loosely connected Native Americans who got pushed off their land by the more tightly connected invading European network (granted, it was a European network also armed with guns, germs, steel, and more).

As I say on my site, I do feel the balance between five types of transactions -- subsistence, gift, exchange, planned/political, and theft -- can change as culture changes. The USA has become heavily exchange-based especially as women moved from the subsistence, gift, and planned/political parts of the economy into the exchange economy over the past few decades. I can hope we may see that balance shift back to something healthier mix. And we do see some of that like with the FOSS movement, Wikpiedia, Makers, Open Government, etc.

Recent developments in space -- India to Mars, China to the Moon, Mexico to a simulated Solar System via Kerbal Space Program, show symbolically that an age of extreme technological dominance by the USA is coming to an end and likely more and more falling behind in key areas (including since you ultimately can't innovate if you don't locally produce, since local production is a form of education for the next generation of designers). Of course, US politics may be so broken at this point the symbolic meaning may not even be noticed or acted upon in a healthy way... I'll be curious what the US political response is to this... If any...

In any case, a lot of Chinese engineers are no-doubt very happy right now, and earned some well-deserved congratulations on a peaceful effort that displays their emerging technological prowess and future possibilities...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Lunar_Exploration_Program [wikipedia.org]

Re:Yes, congrats!!!! (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 4 months ago | (#45688635)

Yeah, right. Curiosity was dragged up to Mars by lawyers (if only).

The ONLY major issue with NASA is the limited (and bizarre) funding issues. There are lots of other minor issues - bureaucracy, risk aversion, aging workforce. These pale in the face of the minimalist funding that is mostly pork barrel entitlements.

China has those problems too ! (4, Interesting)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 4 months ago | (#45688687)

There are lots of other minor issues - bureaucracy, risk aversion, aging workforce.

I may be an American citizen but I came from China. I still keep track of what's going on inside China.

From what I know, all the problems that you've outlined above China also got them.

You just couldn't imagine how bureaucratic the Chinese system is

Risk Aversion
Do you know why China's space program schedule is limited to one-spaceship every year ?

You guess it, risk aversion

Aging workforce
All the leading scientists in Chinese space programs are in their 60's, and older. That is because China practically lost an entire generation of scientist due to the social upheaval during the 1950's to the 1970's.

Yes, a new generation of young scientists are growing up, but they are still seriously lacking in practical experiences.

Re:China has those problems too ! (1)

m00sh (2538182) | about 4 months ago | (#45689921)

There are lots of other minor issues - bureaucracy, risk aversion, aging workforce.

I may be an American citizen but I came from China. I still keep track of what's going on inside China.

From what I know, all the problems that you've outlined above China also got them.

Bureaucracy You just couldn't imagine how bureaucratic the Chinese system is

Risk Aversion Do you know why China's space program schedule is limited to one-spaceship every year ?

You guess it, risk aversion

Aging workforce All the leading scientists in Chinese space programs are in their 60's, and older. That is because China practically lost an entire generation of scientist due to the social upheaval during the 1950's to the 1970's.

Yes, a new generation of young scientists are growing up, but they are still seriously lacking in practical experiences.

If you want to find fault in something, you'll always find something. If you want to find positives in something, you'll also always find something. All your post says is that you really wanted to believe that there are problems with the Chinese scientific institutions for whatever your own reasons*.

Just let it go. Enjoy the achievement and whatever comes off it. We're all a little better off, however little from the success.

Unless you have done extensive statistical analysis of the Chinese scientific institutions and community and claim to be one of the leading researchers in such a field, then my apologies and I acknowledge that I am getting the best opinion there can be on this topic.

Re:China has those problems too ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45690459)

Aging workforce

*Bzzzt*, there were 7million new university graduates in China last year.

Re:Yes, congrats!!!! (1)

ganjadude (952775) | about 4 months ago | (#45688891)

There is the funding issues and then there are the presidential issues. Every 4 or 8 years the current 10 year plan seems to get scrapped, and the new president says he wants to do something else

Re:Place your bets... (1)

Zvonimir Gembec (3463483) | about 4 months ago | (#45688797)

Place your bets on something going wrong. Cause you know, China is known for things that explode or catch fire that shouldn't.

I hoping them the best, sry.

It is not enough to read manuals on Chinglish language, now rover have a Chinglish name too :-/

Racist dick (1, Insightful)

pablo_max (626328) | about 4 months ago | (#45688501)

You sir, are a racist dick.
Let me guess, you are American and know that only Americans can build space vechicles right?
Remember that time that NASA totally fucked up a Mars probe because they were too stupid to use metric?
Remember that time that NASA fucked up the Hubble telescope because they were too stupid to make sure the optics were correct before shooting into space? Geez, seems like all NASA does is fuck things up!
Of course, I know it is not true that they only fuck things up, but I am making a point.
China, despite your ignorant racist views is every bit as advanced as 'Murrica or Russia. Maybe you should think about going there. Maybe should consider leaving your basement and going to ANY other country.

Re:Racist dick (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688505)

Sounds like you're no better.

Don't get so angry, man ! (1)

Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 4 months ago | (#45688555)

You sir, are a racist dick

I came from China, I am an ethnic Chinese, and I am an American (naturalized citizen).

Sir, please calm down. Don't get too work up.

I am happy that the lander landed successfully - not because of I'm a Chinese but because this landing marks another milestone for human space exploration.

Have a good day !


Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688647)

Let's look at the facts, Pablo:

1) "Chinese" is a NATIONALITY.

2) "American" is a NATIONALITY.

3) "Russian" is a NATIONALITY.

4) Nationality has absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity. They are completely independent. Anybody of any race and any ethnicity could potentially be of any nationality.

5) The population of China, and including those involved with their space programs, or any other industry, are of a wide variety of races and ethnicities.

6) The population of the United States, and including those involved with their space programs, or any other industry, are of a wide variety of races and ethnicities.

7) The population of the U.S.S.R and the Russian Federation, including those involved with their space programs, or any other industry, are of a wide variety of races and ethnicities.

8) Any criticism directed at an industry, or an initiative as large as a space program, involving those countries will inherently apply to a large, overlapping swath of races and ethnicities.

9) Given that race is completely separate from nationality and the participation in industry or space programs, racism is clearly not involved here in any way whatsoever.

10) Your accusation of racism are without any basis. You should immediately apologize to the original poster for your mistake, and then you should apologize to the wider Slashdot community for subjecting us to your blatant stupidity.

11) You will need to learn what racism actually is.

12) You will need to learn to think before you post here, so that you do not display future episodes of idiocy.

I think that just about wraps it up, Pablo. Take care, friend.


Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688675)

Except Japan, because they're racist xenophobes.


Taco Cowboy (5327) | about 4 months ago | (#45688703)

1) "Chinese" is a NATIONALITY.

Excuse me.

The word "Chinese" is never mean to be a "nationality".

I am an American by nationality but I am still a Chinese. I was born in China, grew up in China until my teens before I went to America.


Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688803)

Regardless of what you may incorrectly think, "Chinese" is always a nationality. It is not a race or ethnicity.

I refer you to Wikipedia's [partial] list of ethnic groups found in China [wikipedia.org]. I call it a partial list, as it does not include people of "foreign" (European and African, for example) descent who may very well have been born, raised, living and working in China.

Now, you may very well have been born a Chinese national, and you may very well be an American national today. But those are nationalities, and they are completely separate from the one or more ethnic groups in that list which you may be associated with.

This is not a difficult distinction to understand. But it is an important one, because people who don't understand it, or who even just fail to express it properly, can look very foolish, very easily.


Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688939)

I believe in Y chromosomal haplogroups you insensitive clod. Not these fairy land races, ethnicities and nationalities.


ganjadude (952775) | about 4 months ago | (#45688915)

Don't play the laughing boy. There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch.


Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45689439)

"Nationality has absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity. They are completely independent. Anybody of any race and any ethnicity could potentially be of any nationality."


So when you see somebody being mugged by an AFRICAN, you say they were mugged by a 'Chinese'? Or when you see a family of CHINESE people walking down the road, you claim they are 'Africans'?

Nice try, nation-wrecker...

Go and live in Haiti TOMORROW if "We're all the same"... Idiot.

When are HAITIANS going to put a man into space? What about Somalians? South Africans? (Meaning BLACK South Africans).

Why aren't they EVER going to do this? Because their average IQ is 70, that's why.

Re: Racist dick (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45689269)

You sir, are a racist dick.
Let me guess, you are American

Well, nothing bigoted about that statement; move along.

Re:Place your bets... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688831)

Like your laptop, tablet, or half the produce aisle?

Re:Place your bets... (1)

phrostie (121428) | about 4 months ago | (#45690137)

on the other hand, if they are successful, then maybe, just maybe, the US will get off it's arse and send something interesting.

Re:Place your bets... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45690335)

Yet you kept buying things from them like an idiot.

Like most people most of the things in your house is made in China, you just keep buying and bitching at the same time.

Slashdot is all fucked up right now. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688205)

Guys, something is seriously wrong with my Slashdot. It's showing some "Beta" banner by the logo and now the site is basically unusable. It took me a good 10 minutes to even find where this comment box is located!

The text looks really fucking bad now. Almost all of the text is really small, the fonts render very poorly, and a lot of the text is gray on slightly darker gray. It is extraordinarily hard to read. Even the text in this comment box is very small, and its in italics and it's just so hard to read.

There's a lot of wasted space now, too. I've got a 28" monitor and probably 80% of the screen is empty gray areas. The rest is tiny, tiny text that's goddamn unreadable.

When I look at the main story list I can't tell where one story ends and another begins. Some of them have huge images, but others have huge blank gray areas. And I have to scroll so much now just to see all of the stories! I used to be able to read like 6 at a time on my screen. Now I can barely fit in even just two!

The comment threads are even worse. The whole lack of contrast means it's so hard now to figure out what is a comment and what isn't. For crying out loud, everything here is now gray-on-gray-on-gray-on-gray, with some teal on the buttons just to make them very distracting.

I thought that the last design was horrible compared to the one before it, but my god, this new "Beta" Slashdot is virtually unusable. I literally won't be able to continue using this. I can't even read the fucking story or comment text here any longer, and now it's nearly impossible to post comments. There's no reason for me to stay if I can't even just read the content here passively!

Re:Slashdot is all fucked up right now. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688415)

Oh, /., could that moderation be any worse? Somebody gives some good and very valid feedback about the beta site, and then immediately gets shut down for doing so. The whole point of a beta release is to get feedback such as that! Then having received such feedback, changes can be made to remedy any problems and further improve the user experience. The comments are the best (only?) forum for giving such feedback, since the beta site itself does not appear to have any obvious feedback form. Instead of shunning feedback like this, it would be better for everyone if the problems were fixed. I can't believe I have to explain these basic principles of software product release management here, of all places. They should be very well understood already!

Re: Slashdot is all fucked up right now. (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688489)

I agree with OP AC, please stop with this nonsense now

The moon is a planet? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688207)

"the first time this has been attempted on any planetary landing." The moon is a planet? When did that happen?

Re:The moon is a planet? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688247)

It ate Pluto's heart to gain its powers when the IAU downgraded Pluto.

they lie! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688277)

this is not true

mike myers replaces b willis as exoplanet admin. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688305)

because of the times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5abDXuHoo6M

I Await the first execution on the moon (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688321)

How long before THAT happens?

Re:I Await the first execution on the moon (1)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 4 months ago | (#45688395)

When are you free?

Re:I Await the first execution on the moon (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688487)

How long before THAT happens?

When are you free?

LOL !!!

That is a really good one !!

Thanks for the hearty laugh !

Fake? (1)

duke_cheetah2003 (862933) | about 4 months ago | (#45688333)

So will people claim this moon landing is fake too?

Re:Fake? (1)

Yahooti (3401115) | about 4 months ago | (#45688413)

So will people claim this moon landing is fake too?

Only if they had an astronaut or two get out and walk around.

Steaming video link (4, Informative)

Zanadou (1043400) | about 4 months ago | (#45688369)

There's some good live coverage of it here as of right now: http://english.cntv.cn/live/p2p/index.shtml [english.cntv.cn]

Informative, thanks -- Re:Steaming video link (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 4 months ago | (#45688467)

Pretty amazing to see such technological ability spreading around the world -- India going to Mars, and China going to the Moon. I can hope the dream of space settlement will grow in those and other countries and we will see space habitats eventually.

Maybe China will be the first to realize the ideas described in this Carter-era study?
"Advanced Automation for Space Missions"
http://www.islandone.org/MMSG/aasm/ [islandone.org]

Re:Informative, thanks -- Re:Steaming video link (2)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 4 months ago | (#45688681)

An historical analogy is deep ocean sailing. It was pioneered by several different societies over several thousand years. There were numerous starts and stops as the technology improved and as the business case became clearer (no money, no mission, even for the religious guys). The Portuguese (Magellan) punched the Europe to Pacific routes out but could not hold onto any sort of monopoly for several reasons. The oceans are huge, Portugal went into an economic decline just about the time Magellan was sinking most of his fleet. Spain and Europe quickly copied the technology and had some extra money to toss at intrepid explorers.

So, it's not surprising that the countries that pioneered space exploration (the US and USSR) might lose their hegemony in the future. That's been the topic of Science Fiction for many years. And will likely turn in to fact at some point in the near future.

Historical context (2)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 4 months ago | (#45688769)

Good points with the historical analogy to ocean-going explorations and later commerce. CCTV was talking about the implications of the China landing as I started to write this, and putting it into the context of past efforts by other countries like the USA and USSR. But they are making a big point about how nothing much has landed for 37 years that could do local experimented and take local high-definition images,,,

They are just ending their live coverage it seems...Nice to see a recap of the landing video as I was posting on slashdot while listening, and didn't realize how quick it was going to happen after the final deceleration burn, and missed seeing the actual video of the moment of landing at the time... The headline said the landing would happen about twenty minutes or so later than it did so I thought it would take longer...

The next CCTV show is up and talking more about the historical context right now... They are talking about how US President Carter gave China one gram of moon rock and they used half of it for research...

Re:Informative, thanks -- Re:Steaming video link (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45689041)

Interesting, but, those are the recorded times. But the Chinese were in boats during the time of Marco Polo, and had a developed mercantile group then, without the Europeans, there are records of the trading culture prior to the European going to Asia. There are sailing records, from greek history that record, lifetime long trips to foreign lands, where the people speak other languages, but trade is a common language. Be it overland, or by sea, how would traces of ancestory be found in such desperate places as the tip of africa, south america, and the austrailian coasts if not for the moderating affects of the water, the "fair" winds of the sea, and the foodstuffs available from the sea. Trade, piracy and the devils of the sea create civilization.

Live coverage there has ended (1)

Paul Fernhout (109597) | about 4 months ago | (#45688783)

They are on to other stuff there now after finishing the live coverage (which was great to listen to)... They seem to be planning to have updates and further discussion during the day though...

One thing I found confusing in the coverage was distinguishing between what were live images and what were simulations... I did not know if some of the images were coming from perhaps other lunar satellites with cameras focused on the landing probe? Or if they were simulations or infographics tracking real positions?

No more fake Hollywod landings (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688405)

Finally one with live feed, proven. USA propaganda from '70s: Yes, we can do it.
USA 30 years later with advancements in technology: It's very hard to repeat.

Re: No more fake Hollywod landings (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688581)

Correction - it's very hard to repeat on the relative shoestring budgets congress keeps giving NASA these days.

Re: No more fake Hollywod landings (1)

savuporo (658486) | about 4 months ago | (#45689515)

The budgets NASA is receiving is an order of magnitude bigger than anything Chinese are spending on their space programs. In fact, NASA budget still eclipses every other national civil space budget combined. 17 billion dollars is a lot of dough.

Landed (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688535)

Looks like it landed ok...
Or the live stream was faked maybe? :-)

CAPTCHA: invades


The anti-china bent of comments here are sad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688579)

The next century belongs to china. They are on rapid pace to be the next world leading country.
We might as well accept it and suckup to them as hard as we can.
Hope they find a use for the US we can live with.

We squandered our technological and scientific education leads for the pursuit of profit above all else.
And now we're just going to have to live with that. And maybe wise up and change for the future.

I'm not betting on the wising up tho.
We're gonna throw a hissyfit instead. Like greedy children.
And eventually the world will tire of that and someone will bitchslap us.

Don't like hearing that? Well tough. Someone needs to tell you the truth.
Now wise the fuck up. Care about political issues that improve our science and technology and education.
Abortion? Gay rights? Who slept with who? These are not useful avenues of political effort.

Re:The anti-china bent of comments here are sad. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45696497)

That's hilarious. I hope you kill yourself before China implodes, really I don't think you can take the stress.

Install what? (1)

alanw (1822) | about 4 months ago | (#45688585)

To watch the live feed I'm being asked to install CNTVLive2 plugi

http:/// [http] player . cntv . cn /flashplayer/config/plugins/npCNTVLive2_Linux_64.xpi

I think not.

There seems to be a custom compression algorithm used for
http://player.cntv.cn/flashplayer/logo/Loading.swf?v=2012.11.28.1&v=0.3890230686354875la [player.cntv.cn]

mplayer/xine/vlc don't like it.

In Firefox and Chromium it shows a loading page but stops at 80-something percent.

Re:Install what? (1)

bityz (2011656) | about 4 months ago | (#45688619)

I'm watching it fine 3.11.0-14-generic #21-Ubuntu SMP Tue Nov 12 17:04:55 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux Firefox 25.0.1 I do have some browser plugins installed including VLC, Divx, shockwave

This FP 7or GNAA (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688597)

Ne7BSD post1s on

Successfully landed (5, Informative)

david.given (6740) | about 4 months ago | (#45688605)

CCTV's live coverage showed a textbook landing and solar array deployment, including some very shiny live pictures from the descent imager. Next steps are self-testing, instrument deployment and releasing the rover, which they've said will take up to 24 hours. Although I'd imagine that they'll release images from the panoramic mast camera as soon as possible.

stolen tech (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688767)

It would be more amazing had they not stole all of their technology.

13:40 UTc What is that in English? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45688827)

We aren't all chinese here you know.

Re:13:40 UTc What is that in English? (2)

mark-t (151149) | about 4 months ago | (#45689873)

UTC is the time in Greenwich, which is in England. You can't really get any *more* English.

Re:13:40 UTc What is that in English? (1)

angel'o'sphere (80593) | about 4 months ago | (#45690199)

Nitpicking: there is a slight difference between UTC and GMT.
However it is indeed a shame that your parent either does not know what UTC is or in what/which time zone he is living.

Re:13:40 UTc What is that in English? (1)

mark-t (151149) | about 4 months ago | (#45690597)

I thought there was only a difference of an hour during DST months, which December is not... at least not in the northern hemisphere.

Re:13:40 UTc What is that in English? (1)

angel'o'sphere (80593) | about 4 months ago | (#45691871)

Mainly yes, but I would not bet on leap seconds and other time issues. Time is tricky (as a software engineer, I usually have all manuals open all the time when I have to deal with time, you forget to easy to often some detail).

Re:13:40 UTc What is that in English? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45690025)

Fucking dumb cunt.

who is directing the "landing"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45689049)

So who's the director given that Stanley Kubrick is no longer alive?

Can they do us a favor? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45689075)

Could they motor on over and see how the Apollo Descent Stages are holding up? Maybe take a picture of the American flags "flying" in the breeze.

Re:Can they do us a favor? (1)

cshay (79326) | about 4 months ago | (#45689401)

From what I have read, the American flags are completely white now due to the intense UV.

Re:Can they do us a favor? (2)

Areyoukiddingme (1289470) | about 4 months ago | (#45689869)

They intentionally landed quite a long way from any of the Apollo sites, in case something went wrong during descent. They didn't want to effectively bomb one of those sites, even by accident.

It remains to be seen what the longevity of the rover will be. It is solar powered, so if they're patient and it was constructed very very well to keep the lunar dust out of moving parts, in theory they could drive that far. They would set a roving distance record if they did. Possibly a very LONG record, since there are no roads and the crater rims make for very rough terrain. Even finding a navigable route that far would be tough.

That would be sweet (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45690225)

still, you gotta admit, that would be pretty sweet.

Given how much money some movies make, you'd think it would be profitable for someone to send a rover to document one of the landing sites. Every geek in the world would pony up to see that in high def on an imax screen.

The Chinese plan (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45692727)

It remains to be seen what the longevity of the rover will be

The rover is supposed to last for only 3 months. The lander, 1 year.

The Chinese are not planning on having a long-lasting Curiosity-type rover on the moon, for they will send another one up there pretty soon (in 2 years, or so) and then another one (to take samples back to earth) and after that they may start sending Taikonauts (Chinese Astronauts) to the moon and may even build a moon base (or two, or three, or more).

That's their plan anyway.

Good news; begs a question (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45689109)

With both China and India taking new steps in space exploration, this is very good news. I've been a huge fan of space programs since I was a little kid watching Mercury liftoffs, and I really don't much care which country is doing it.

But I have to ask: How much of a space program can countries like China and India have and still be considered "developing countries" (euphemism for "poor") when it comes to things like asking the "developed countries" (i.e. "rich") for financial help in things like curbing their quickly rising CO2 emissions?

Throughout history China often leads in technology (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45689583)

They usually lose their advantage due to stupid political decisions but there are many points in history where China has had the most advanced technology in some fields.

The cheap/toxic/low quality stereotypical stuff from China is only because that's what people ask for/want. They want cheap shit. This doesn't mean China is not capable of making high quality stuff. Their educational system leads the US by a good margin.

Hello China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45693285)

Hello China. Welcome to 1969. How's Mao's "Great Purge" looking now? The first step is admitting there is a problem. Example: the fat kid in North Korea doesn't admit there is a problem. *That* is a problem. His reform-minded uncle (Your man there) is now dead. North Korean progress is to China what China's progress is to the rest of the world. Hint: money and landing on the moon is not the same as freedom.

Re:Hello China (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45698671)

fortunately for the Billion or so Chinese, they're quite happy not being back there in 1969 with you.

Hint: claiming you are free while being monitored, spied upon and sued by anyone who wants with more money than you is also not the same as freedom.

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