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60% of Americans Unaware of Looming Incandescent Bulb Phase Out

Soulskill posted about 4 months ago | from the let's-complain-about-color-temperature-some-more dept.

Earth 944

Lucas123 writes "Even though production of 75W and 100W incandescent lamps were phased out earlier this year, many U.S. consumers remain blissfully unaware of The Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA) of 2007, an energy efficiency standard that requires an initial 30% reduction in energy use for screw-in bulbs. By 2020, the federal standard requires bulbs to use 65% less energy. According to a new survey, only 40% of Americans are aware that incandescent bulbs are being phased out. However, the federal regulations are about to impact the most popular bulbs of all — 40W and 60W lamps. As of Jan. 1, 2014, the bulbs will no longer be produced. A significant portion of those who are aware of the phase out have been hoarding the bulbs in anticipation of the ban."

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944 comments

What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783763)

My wife hates incandescents and LED are still too expensive.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (1)

luther349 (645380) | about 4 months ago | (#45783801)

right wanna check again led are getting cheap. seen them as cheap as 5$. the real cost in led bulbs is the converter to 12v that has to be installed in them for home use. 12v led can be gotten by the case for 5$ lol.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (3, Insightful)

Chas (5144) | about 4 months ago | (#45784025)

Hmm. 1000bulbs.com

A 60W equivalent LED bulb. $36 each.
A 60W equivalent CFL enclosed bulb. $12 each.

Hmm. Menards.com

A 60W Incandescent: $4 for a 4-pack.

Yeah. Sure. Cheap.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (4, Informative)

MightyYar (622222) | about 4 months ago | (#45784145)

I don't think you could have sourced a more expensive place for 60-watt replacements. I just bought a 4-pack of CFLs at Home Depot for under $4. And that's the good Phillips brand. The fancy GE enclosed CFLs with the starter halogen inside go for about $5. The Phillips 60W-equivalent LED is $10, with the Cree going for slightly more.

I'm not arguing that the phase out is a good thing, but let's be realistic about the price drops.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (4, Insightful)

gweihir (88907) | about 4 months ago | (#45783815)

LEDs are cheaper. But some basic understanding of math and economics is required to see that. People that fail at that may get to conclusions such as yours.

cheaper only for rich people (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784073)

See, if you have $2 in your pocket, you can either get an incandescent bulb or stay in the dark. Rich people are doing fine with this; the poor are getting hurt. Further, those on assistance are not paying market rates for electricity, so the math only works for those who can afford CFLs to start with.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784159)

Typical "dim"wits like yourself assume a light that generates heat is wasting energy.(Hint: stop believing the MSM) Wrong. At least 2/3rds wrong. Why? Most of the world's population lives in climates which are less than 70 degrees for 2/3rds of the year. That "wasted" energy is actually the same as if it were produced from an electric baseboard heater, except the lowly light serves 2 purposes for 2/3rds of the year, producing light and heat.

So if you really wanted to save energy you would be promoting that lights be changed for the warmest months of the year. How about one that changes automatically, one that contains both styles?

Grow up and think instead of just believing the bullshit spewed by the MSM which is touting mandates from the government which were lobbied for by megacorps.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (4, Informative)

SerpentMage (13390) | about 4 months ago | (#45783825)

We have been going through this phase out (Switzerland) and while I was using "neon" tubes and halogens I am switching to LED's. They are awesome. Low energy, last forever, very bright, and do not generate any heat. IMO LED's have come a very long way in a very short time.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (1)

ottawanker (597020) | about 4 months ago | (#45783849)

They actually generate a lot of heat. Not as much as incandescent, but they are still not all that efficient.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783873)

No, actually, LEDs don't generate any heat worth thinking about. The heat issue is from the AC-to-DC conversion necessary. Given the large number of household appliances these days that require wall warts, bricks, and various other forms of AC-to-DC adapters, I really wonder why they don't start outfitting homes with 12v circuits with a single high-efficiency converter at the breaker box.

bullshit (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783915)

Take a look at the size of a heatsink required for a 20 watt led array chip. Its as big as most modern CPU heatsinks

Re:bullshit (3, Informative)

compro01 (777531) | about 4 months ago | (#45784017)

It needs to be big not so much because of the amount of heat, but because the LEDs themselves are rather intolerant of excessive heat.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784065)

because larger lines are required to transmit the same potential power rating with low voltage high current. Its all about the power. Your house circuit is set to provide 15 to 20 amps at 110(ish) volts which would be roughly 1650 to 2200 watts and can be handled by a 14 to 16 guage wire, depending on the lengh of the line. the same potentail power in a 12 volt line would be 125amps and require a cable of about OO gauge for short runs. You end up way past the point of diminishing returns in the cost of copper to run that line. Basic electronics theory. Yes one could theoretically run a 12 guage wire through the house on a single trunk-line, but people want to be able to plug their devices in where they want to. It is cheaper to provide the required minimum conversion where it is needed from a higher voltage sourced feeder trunk. Thats also why a 220volt line is feeding your house but 120volts is feeding your appliances, and a much higher voltage is feeding the transformers on the corner that supply your block.

ACCD (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784161)

And lets not forget the AC benefits in transport and safety over DC.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (2)

hawguy (1600213) | about 4 months ago | (#45784003)

My wife hates incandescents and LED are still too expensive.

I think you meant to say that your wife only likes incandescents, otherwise the incandescent ban won't affect you.

If she really wants to stick with incandescents, you could use energy efficient halogens that are still incandescents and are around 30% more efficient than traditional incandescents.

Re:What is the best way to buy some in bulk? (1)

alanshot (541117) | about 4 months ago | (#45784013)

Check out Home Depot. Best prices so far on LEDs. typically $10/$15 for standard 40/60 watt equivalents. Still not as cheap as CFL, but ZERO MERCURY and typically VERY hard to break.

My only beef is the glaring lack of "high output" (>100W) and decent candelabra wattage (40-60)

I have a bunch of ceiling fans that all take that new fangled specialty bulb. And the fan industry seems to have hopped on the CFL bandwagon with this new two post bayonet style bulb. Really pisses me off that I cant run LED in quite a few of my fixtures due to either VERY limited, underpowered choices, or no choice at all.

Get rid of those things (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783765)

If you have a brain, you got rid of those fucking things more than 5 years ago.

Re:Get rid of those things (1, Insightful)

gweihir (88907) | about 4 months ago | (#45783803)

Indeed. US-Americans are however famous for their combination of ignorance and stupidity. I recently upgraded all my CFLs to LED bulbs and are very happy with them. And no, LED bulbs are not more expensive, but you need to be able to do basic math to see that.

Rebate program (1)

tepples (727027) | about 4 months ago | (#45783855)

And no, LED bulbs are not more expensive, but you need to be able to do basic math to see that.

Which is why, in a comment to a previous Slashdot story about, mtrachtenberg and I suggested [slashdot.org] including the estimated lifetime energy usage in the sticker price of each bulb, along with a rebate certificate that can be mailed to the power company for a discount on one's electric bill over the expected life of the bulb. Think of it like bottle deposit [wikipedia.org].

Re:Get rid of those things (2)

Maquis196 (535256) | about 4 months ago | (#45783967)

Its just the up front cost that can suck for people, considering the long term savings and the how much money that can be saved buying them in bulk, I am suprised a local/regional/state/country government doesn't just force the issue and issue a "Incandescent for LED trade scheme".

Country uses less power, poor people don't suffer (thats where the up front cost can hurt) and no one can complain that I can think off.

I'm in the process of switching my house to LED, but some rooms simply never have their lights on, the payback period is immense, I'll gladly replace broken with LED but they just won't die on me. First world problems eh?

Re:Get rid of those things (1)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | about 4 months ago | (#45784129)

Indeed. US-Americans are however famous for their combination of ignorance and stupidity. I recently upgraded all my CFLs to LED bulbs and are very happy with them. And no, LED bulbs are not more expensive, but you need to be able to do basic math to see that.

Yeah, it's only in America you find people who'll purchase "heat balls [mnn.com]" because they refuse to switch to more efficient lights.

I bet non-Americans never make sophomoric sweeping generalizations either.

Re:Get rid of those things (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783881)

Nope.

1) Large initial outlay on the energy saving bulbs;

2) When I factor in the cost of even one or two out of two dozen bulbs which go wrong early in their life, I'm not saving money;

3) All but the most expensive do not light up nearly as quickly as traditional;

4) Colour profile of almost all of them is not as nice as incandescent;

5) Disposal of a complex electronic device is more difficult.

Re:Get rid of those things (0)

luther349 (645380) | about 4 months ago | (#45783937)

wrong my buddy has warm light 12v strip led light's in the cabin he had a film crew come in and do a spectrum test for the cameras he passed test better then a house with non led lighting in fact the best they ever saw. its not the cost you need to look for but the warm light style ones.

Re:Get rid of those things (0)

Chas (5144) | about 4 months ago | (#45784045)

That's great for your buddy. Did his buddy's buddy also find the fountain of youth? And a cure for the common cold?

Congratulations! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784097)

Congratulations sucker! you took the bait and walked into the trap.

Large initial outlay on the energy saving bulbs;

Bullshit, outlay of $200 to replace all bulbs in house, electric bill dropped by about the same in the first month.

When I factor in the cost of even one or two out of two dozen bulbs which go wrong early in their life, I'm not saving money

Still more bullshit, see above costs.

All but the most expensive do not light up nearly as quickly as traditional;

Unless you're running in and out of the room, flipping the lights off and on; its not a problem.

Colour profile of almost all of them is not as nice as incandescent

More bullshit, a variety of color profiles are available, you just have to know how to read. In addition I have trouble finding ones that aren't profiled like the nasty yellow incandescent bulbs.

Disposal of a complex electronic device is more difficult.

Still more bullshit. If you want to recycle--recycling them at any Lowes, or Home depot. And recycling while better than throwing in trash is a much better idea. Even throwing bulbs in the trash releases still less overall mercury into the environment than your crappy incandescent. (Although local regulations may vary.)

Indeed you are completely full of shit and your bullshit, ignorant, stupid defense of incandescent bulbs has been completely debunked .

Re:Get rid of those things (1)

arbiter1 (1204146) | about 4 months ago | (#45783925)

Yea um being a person recently effected by the blackout in the mid west. An Incandescent Bulb kept my generator from dieing cause the air was so cold the carburetor was freezing up. Had a drop light under the carburetor to keep it warm and running.

Re:Get rid of those things (2)

hawguy (1600213) | about 4 months ago | (#45784021)

Yea um being a person recently effected by the blackout in the mid west. An Incandescent Bulb kept my generator from dieing cause the air was so cold the carburetor was freezing up. Had a drop light under the carburetor to keep it warm and running.

Right, because incandescents are the only source of heat known to man.

Use heat tape next time - a drop of water won't shatter the bulb and leave you without a generator.

Re:Get rid of those things (1)

Gareth Iwan Fairclough (2831535) | about 4 months ago | (#45783947)

If you have a brain, you got rid of those fucking things more than 5 years ago.

I've still got loads of them in my house from when I bought a whole bunch of them in bulk (I was fed up of going back and forth to the shop to buy a replacement). As soon as I bought the damn things, what happens? Nothing. They stopped blowing -.-

I have them, so I might as well use them. It's not as if they're the devil incarnate that will rape your babies just because you use them. There's just no sense in sending something to land-fill if it's still perfectly usable. I paid for them, so I am damn well going to use them. That said however, I'm not particularly bothered that they're being phased out. As long as they generate enough light within a reasonable time-scale (which LEDs do) and they don't cost too much (which LEDs don't) I'm happy. I will definitely be changing to LEDs as my stock of bulbs runs out however.

Re:Get rid of those things (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783985)

I had a bunch of LED down lights installed in my kitchen recently. I'm not impressed. They're bright, sure, but they don't dim anywhere as much as incandescents - and that's how I use down lights 95% of the time. End result: I'm using the halogen lights in the range-hood instead.

I'm happy to use LEDs in other situations, but CFLs can get stuffed.

Don't throw out those incandescents - they're gold.

Re:Get rid of those things (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784033)

In a cold climate there's really no advantage to LEDs. The "inefficient" heat produced by incandescent bulbs is quite useful.

Re:Get rid of those things (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 4 months ago | (#45784123)

But visible light is inefficient heating. It can easily escape the house through windows. You are better off with infra red.

Re:Get rid of those things (5, Insightful)

Mr D from 63 (3395377) | about 4 months ago | (#45784061)

If you have a brain, you got rid of those fucking things more than 5 years ago.

It would be a pretty stupid thing to buy and expensive LED or other bulb to put in a crawlspace, or attic, or even a closet. Payback will never happen. Not enough energy used to make a difference either.

Re:Get rid of those things (3, Interesting)

SeaFox (739806) | about 4 months ago | (#45784085)

If you have a brain, you got rid of those fucking things more than 5 years ago.

Notice how it's not suggested the reason 60% of people are "blissfully unaware" of this phase-out is because they stopped using incandescent bulbs already and don't care.

If it bother you that much (4, Insightful)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 4 months ago | (#45783773)

LED light bulbs have low cost and no flicker. If you need a specific lighting profile there's plenty of sites that'll sell it to you. I find it hard getting upset that incandescents are going away. It's not like we're going to pay for the power infrastructure to support them...

Re:If it bother you that much (5, Informative)

Arker (91948) | about 4 months ago | (#45783883)

You obviously dont live in an area with less than perfect power delivery.

Where I am is not bad, but still just far enough from perfect that those new 'long life' bulbs do not last any longer than incandescents. They just cost 20 times as much, they arent as bright, and they are inferior in absolutely every way.

Rich idiots in privileged settings come up with this crap and force it down the throats of the rest of us, and no offense but you sure sound like part of the problem. Just because you dont need something does not give you license to outlaw it and screw with the rest of us like that. If you dont think incandescent bulbs are a good value for you then dont buy them, but preventing those of us that do need them from obtaining them is just meanness.

Re:If it bother you that much (0)

luther349 (645380) | about 4 months ago | (#45783961)

wrong i have delt with led for years now they last for a very long time the problem with the 120v bulbs is the power converter that's what fails. if you run your led at 12v like say a camper or cabin they have no problems and led can get blinding bright.

Re:If it bother you that much (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784089)

LED's and CFL bulbs use between 5 and 25% of the power an equivalent Tungsten or Halogen bulb might by converting all of the energy input into light instead of heat. While there's a definite argument LED or CFL's are far more polluting, the reduction in pollution from the energy consumption decrease far outweighs that argument. Additionally you need several Tungsten bulbs to get the same lifespan for most applications; a LED or CFL Can last years or decades. The expansion\contraction cycles caused by heating\cooling in most Tungsten or Halogen bulbs eventually kill them, although that can be considered more of a (potentially intentional?) engineering problem than anything else.

http://www.centennialbulb.org/campics.htm

If you remember the PNAC (Project for a New American Century) Bush was following when we invaded the middle east in 2002, he wanted to take all the oil and keep it for America; Saudi and Soviet Oil is what powers your SUV. There are tons of Coal and Natural Gas fired power plants onshore; the only way you make using domestically produced oil, coal and gas viable over the long term is by reducing energy consumption. That means, fundamentally, lighter cars, smaller transistors on computers, and making some changes to energy consumption in houses.

There are some applications where Tungsten or Halogen bulbs make sense; namely when you need heat or need to resist damage from dirty power (such as being on a generator). LED's need DC power, so your compact assembly needs an inverter and phase regulator; there's a lot more to go wrong. As time goes on I'm sure competition will drive better designs.

It still is shitty all the kickbacks going on in Washington; this is exactly the kind of self-serving legislation that is killing the country. If we had gone with Liquid Thorium Salt Nuclear 4 decades ago, stayed on the gold standard, and kept bankers under control (GDP adjusted for debt has been net zero for 30 years), we might be in a different place today. Organizations that once protested nuclear power are now becoming its biggest supporters.

Re:If it bother you that much (1)

StenD (34260) | about 4 months ago | (#45784127)

Does it really matter that it's the power converter which fails under the poor power delivery conditions? Can you remove the LED from the power converter, purchase a replacement power converter from obRetailer, and attach the LED to the replacement? If not, the LED bulb failed.

Re:If it bother you that much (1)

Arker (91948) | about 4 months ago | (#45784137)

No, you are wrong. And it seems you need to learn to read.

I have no problems with 12 volt LEDs running off the RV batteries, they work great.

But the ones that run off 120v? Around here they fry. Bad power lines, bad design or construction of the lighting unit, probably a mixture of both. But the result is the same. They do not fit the needs here.

Re:If it bother you that much (2)

SeaFox (739806) | about 4 months ago | (#45784153)

wrong i have dealt with led for years now they last for a very long time the problem with the 120v bulbs is the power converter that's what fails.

It doesn't matter if it's the power converter that's failing or the diode itself. LED bulbs are not made to be easily user-serviceable. The "bulb" is all the parts but together -- if the power converter fails the bulb has burnt out. And if they are failing at rates comparable to the lifespan of incandescent bulbs Arker's complaint is valid. As a consumer he is still paying a hefty premium for a product that is not living up to its lifespan claims.

Trying to cloud this with geeky tricks like soldering in higher quality electronics in the lamp's base or running them at a lower voltage doesn't apply to the product as a direct replacement for traditional bulbs.

Would be safe to say (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783781)

That we're in the dark about it..

So, a failed massive politican grandstanding (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783785)

Because that's what is behind the opposition to the phase-out, which I guess means it's a good thing they really didn't do much.

Hey, did anybody else here Michelle Bachmann isn't running for re-election next term? Maybe that means she'll have more time to spend on this issue rather than be distracted governing the country.

This the Primary Reason (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783793)

I'd say it'd be reasonable to assume that a similar percentage of American's are unaware of the differences in available bulbs, other than price and hue perhaps, which is why there's a law instead of further choice.

Re:This the Primary Reason (0)

FlyHelicopters (1540845) | about 4 months ago | (#45783805)

Yes... while government telling us what we can and cannot buy is often a bad thing, in this case, the fact is most people just keep using what they already know, even if it is the worst possible choice.

I'm no "greenie", but even I understand the benefits of moving to LED lights over time, the power saved across the country once everyone makes the move are not small.

One of those, "doing it just yourself makes no difference, everyone doing it does" kinda things.

Conservative freak-out. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783807)

It is fun to watch.

Help: using a bulb with a dimmer over a shower.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783875)

I tried using an fluorescent bulb over a shower with a dimmer on it...oops! It flickered, and I read up about it. I think using the wrong bulb with a dimmer can be dangerous. I got into a minefield that I can't figure out. I got far enough to see that, at least the fluorescent bulbs should only be used with a dimmer that matches that particular bulb. (I rent; I'm not about to change out the switch on my own, and the landlord is slighlty whacko). I need the equivalent of 75W incandescent light. Also, few of the new bulbs are rated safe in a wet environment. It's above a bathtub with a shower head added on. This is an old bungalow, probably from the 1920's.
I don't know about the LED's Help!

Re:Help: using a bulb with a dimmer over a shower. (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 4 months ago | (#45783891)

A battery powered LED lamp would be about the safest thing in that environment. Ikea sell little lamps which stick on to a surface with double sided tape.

Re:Help: using a bulb with a dimmer over a shower. (2)

pesho (843750) | about 4 months ago | (#45783971)

Go to lowes or home depot and look for dimmable LED bulbs. I have had better lick with those than with dimmable CFLs, which indeed require you to upgrade the dimmer switch. Having said this unless you insist of having dimmable light in your bath, I would suggest just to get a 70 cent light switch and replace the dimmer.

Re:Help: using a bulb with a dimmer over a shower. (1)

pesho (843750) | about 4 months ago | (#45783997)

Forgot about the dimmable halogen bulbs, which may be a better fit for you than LEDs.

Re:Help: using a bulb with a dimmer over a shower. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784011)

Switch to a halogen bulb: -less Watt for same Lumen -good colour temp. -just as fast as W filaments

Is there any hope for my Lava Lamps? (1)

pecosdave (536896) | about 4 months ago | (#45783811)

I have three Lava Lamps at home. I like them. I don't want to lose them.

Is there an alternate LED/Heater I can use to replace the bulbs?

Re:Is there any hope for my Lava Lamps? (1)

ottawanker (597020) | about 4 months ago | (#45783861)

Buy one of the halogen bulbs that are still allowed for sale. You'll end up with more light, but basically the same amount of heat.

Re: Is there any hope for my Lava Lamps? (4, Informative)

dgatwood (11270) | about 4 months ago | (#45783989)

Lava lamps use a small, specialty lamp size that is unaffected by this ban, just like refrigerator and stove bulbs. The ban is only on standard-sized, non-long-life incandescent bulbs at specific wattages.

They aren't banned... (2)

RocketRabbit (830691) | about 4 months ago | (#45783817)

They aren't banned, as you can still buy the rough service bulbs. Newcandescent among others sells them for $2-3 a pop, and they have a 10000 hour life instead of the 1000 hour life that normal bulbs claim. They are cheaper and the light is easier on the eyes than any of the alternatives available at this time. Go rough service, I have a whole case on order and they should last me for decades.

Re:They aren't banned... (1)

Pentium100 (1240090) | about 4 months ago | (#45783981)

Yea, the "long life" (3000h) and "rugged" lightbulbs are all that's available in my country. A fun fact is that they are less efficient than the normal incandescent bulbs. Efficiency rating of "G" compared to "E". Though, I like their light even more (lower color temperature) and while I do not have a big stockpile of them, I will.

Re:They aren't banned... (5, Informative)

hawguy (1600213) | about 4 months ago | (#45783987)

They aren't banned, as you can still buy the rough service bulbs. Newcandescent among others sells them for $2-3 a pop, and they have a 10000 hour life instead of the 1000 hour life that normal bulbs claim. They are cheaper and the light is easier on the eyes than any of the alternatives available at this time. Go rough service, I have a whole case on order and they should last me for decades.

One way they get the longer lifetime of the bulbs is to use a thicker filament, and they rate the lumens at 130V, while most homes are going to have 110 - 120V delivered to their homes, so you're getting less light out of the bulb.

You can get a quaility Halogen replacement bulb that will provide 100W equivalent performance while using only about 70 watts and will last 3500 hours for around $5.

I don't know if you think you're making a stand against government, but if you use the rough service bulbs instead of more efficient bulbs, you're costing yourself more money and getting less light than if you just bought an efficient halogen replacement.

How much more? At 4 hours/day the $2.50 10000 hour Rough Service bulb will last almost 7 years, while you'd need 3 of the 3500 hour $5 halogens to last that long, so you'll end up paying $12.50 more for the bulbs. However, saving 30 watts means 306KWh of energy savings for the Halogen, or around $36 at 12 cents/KWh.

So, you'll spend over $20 for the privilege of having less light, but you'll have proven why legislation was needed to get people to select bulbs that save them money.

Or are you going to claim that even halogen incandescents don't provide the same quality of light as conventional incandescents?

Re:They aren't banned... (1)

dgatwood (11270) | about 4 months ago | (#45784149)

On the flip side, there are some situations where rough service bulbs are probably the only good alternative to incandescent bulbs—for example, the fully enclosed fixtures that most folks use in their hallways and porches. CFL ballast electronics and LED step-down electronics are typically designed under the assumption that they can breathe, and have a tendency to fail much sooner when they can't. And I'd be afraid to use halogen bulbs in those fixtures because of the higher temperatures involved.

This might constrain the creativity of Americans (1)

JoeyRox (2711699) | about 4 months ago | (#45783827)

Because when a lightbulb goes off in our head we'll have nothing to replace it with.

Crony Capitalism (0)

Wonko the Sane (25252) | about 4 months ago | (#45783859)

The EISA should be called the "GE Payment for Services Rendered Act of 2007"

Same shit, different day. Large corporations help politicians gain power. Politicians return the favor by enacting legislation favorable to the bottom line of said companies. A story is invented to help sell the fleecing to a gullible public, and most of them are happy to be taken hook, line, and sinker, "Well if they say it's better for the environment then it obviously must be true. Think of the children!"

Re:Crony Capitalism (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 4 months ago | (#45783921)

How much electricity will it actually save? That is my question.

Re:Crony Capitalism (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 4 months ago | (#45783959)

My LED lamps use about 25% of the energy of the equivalent halogen or incandescent lamps.

Re:Crony Capitalism (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 4 months ago | (#45783969)

I meant, overall in the US, how much does this law save? Is it merely a fraction of the total cost of electricity in the country? Or is it a significant win?

Re:Crony Capitalism (1)

Rhywden (1940872) | about 4 months ago | (#45784057)

The energy "consumed" in a typical household for lighting amounts to approximately 10% of total energy usage.

German households consumed 609 billion kWh in 2012. Which means that using LEDs everywhere would reduce lighting usage by 75% - resulting in a total reduction by ~46 billion kWh.

This amount of energy amounts averagely to two(2) 2,6 MW power plants. That's the numbers for Germany. Of course, in 2012 we already had LEDs and stuff, so the real number would be lower. Maybe 50%? But that would stll get rid of one whole power plant. I dare say that is pretty significant.

Re:Crony Capitalism (1)

jareth-0205 (525594) | about 4 months ago | (#45784067)

From what I understand, lighting tech change is the biggest easiest win when reducing power consumption that doesn't significantly adversely affect the end user. You can imagine that several 100W bulbs in a house all going down to 25W CFL is going to add up pretty quickly, and there's always more lightbulbs around than you think. Asking someone not to wash clothes as often or heat their house is potentially a bigger saving, but nobody's going to do it.

Re:Crony Capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784043)

On your total energy bill: not a lot. Light accounts for less than 2% on my bill (55 degrees N, YMMV).

On your bill related to lighting: a lot.

Re:Crony Capitalism (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 4 months ago | (#45784105)

But you don't want your heat escaping the house as visible light. You want it to start off as infra-red so you get efficient transfer to the air in your house.

Re:Crony Capitalism (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784081)

That's all environmentalism is - is a "Think of the children!" situation yet those who despise "Think of the Children!" acts, hypocritically, support that particular thing. Odd that they don't see that. I wonder why... hmm.

What about mercury? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783869)

I've slowly replaced all the bulbs in my house with CFL's and I have no complaint.
However, I know they have mercury in them, and there doesn't seem to be any process in place for properly recycling them.
Forcing people to switch without such a process in place just seems like a recipe for poisoning ourselves.

Re:What about mercury? (4, Interesting)

jareth-0205 (525594) | about 4 months ago | (#45784095)

If you're in a coal-fired powerstation area, then it's still a major win. There's mercury in the bulbs, but mercury is released by burning coal and the power savings more than outweigh what's in the bulb.

So what? (4, Insightful)

pesho (843750) | about 4 months ago | (#45783889)

"Even though production of 75W and 100W incandescent lamps were phased out earlier this year, many U.S. consumers remain blissfully unaware of The Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA) of 2007

They will happily swap the burned out bulbs with whatever is available in the store and most of them wouldn't notice much difference. Couple will find that some of the stuff they bought does not work with dimmer switches or some bulbs tend to be a bit bulky and don't fit in certain very tight enclosures. All of those will be swapped for free back in the store with suitable replacements. So what's the point of preparing in advance for the switch or knowing about it?

Now, the people hoarding incandescent bulbs are a bit more puzzling. Some of them probably have a get-rich-quick plan kicking into action and all I can say is good for them. The ones that are actively trying to avoid switching away from incandescent bulbs are completely different story. WTF people? What's the point of massively inconveniencing yourself with the storage of fragile items only to pay higher electric bills.

Re:So what? (2)

Pentium100 (1240090) | about 4 months ago | (#45784001)

What's the point of massively inconveniencing yourself with the storage of fragile items only to pay higher electric bills.

I like the light produced by incandescent lightbulbs. Low color temperature (even lower on the long life incandescent bulbs), spectrum well approximates black body radiation and the bulb is a point source of light (a clear bulb anyway). Halogens are almost as good, but their color temperature is too high for me.

Re:So what? (2)

Rhywden (1940872) | about 4 months ago | (#45784077)

You do realize that the colour spectrum of LEDs is a solved problem, right? And that there's more than one type of LED?

These new light devices... (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783893)

They are designed to drain our precious bodily fluids.

significant portion (1)

phantomfive (622387) | about 4 months ago | (#45783897)

In case anyone is wondering what percentage of Americans are planning on hoarding light bulbs:

Thirty percent of U.S. consumers indicated that they plan to buy a lot of traditional light bulbs while they're still available and will continue using them.

I'll bet the percentage that actually does it will be much smaller.

Re:significant portion (1)

Arker (91948) | about 4 months ago | (#45783965)

Any time you ask people whether or not they intend to do something, you will expect more people to say yes than will actually do it, so sure, the percentage will be smaller. But "much" smaller? I doubt it.

A lot of people are in situations where the replacements just do not work. I am stocking up on lightbulbs and so are other people I know. There are people already with multiple storage units packed to the roof with lightbulbs.

A predictable if undesired consequence of banning them, just like banning anything else people want and/or need.

60% of Americans are (4, Insightful)

thegarbz (1787294) | about 4 months ago | (#45783901)

How is this surprising?

60% of Americans not keeping up with nation politics? Heck didn't 60% not even bother voting at some point? Don't 60% still think the world was made by an omnipotent being in 7 days?

Re:60% of Americans are (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784117)

60% of Americans are too stupid to be allowed to vote.
60% of Americans are so fat they haven't seen their feet in decades

60% of Americans are nah its too easy!

Re:60% of Americans are (1)

misexistentialist (1537887) | about 4 months ago | (#45784183)

And you believe the world was made by what? The Singularity? Okaaaaay. True, it's not surprising, since if the majority approved the law wouldn't be needed since the supply chain would have already dissolved due to lack of demand, but these laws are about lobbyists and energy-hog elitists making us do what they want

Doesn't the phase out only cover domestic producti (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783905)

Leaving overseas manufacturers free to flood the market (until the round of tariffs screws us out of them for good)?

What about lava lamps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45783907)

Seriously, honest question.

I've got 12 of these units scattered around my house. They're all good lamps from the 1980s up to 1996- most of them cost more then $100/piece. Most of them are considered large or grand size, maybe 20" tall and 6" across at the widest point. They take standard incandescent 40w bulbs that screw into the base.

What am I supposed to do with these now? Throw them out? Put them away?

If the government is honestly going to sit there and say "No, you can't have your nice things anymore, it's bad for the environment"... Well, fuck the government, and fuck the environment too. I don't care how wasteful incandescent lighting is. It works, and it works exceptionally well. I'm paying for my power bill, so I fail to see why anyone would care what I'm spending my power on (unless I was running a drug op of course).

PS: I'm well aware of the small production run Mathmos did for their Smart Astro units, which were basically the digital equivalent of a lava lamp- PWM controlled heating coil, with the goo lit up by a bunch of large LEDs all powered off a 12V DC wall wart. They didn't make many of these, they're not making them anymore, and I already have two. They look nice and work reasonably well, but they don't compare to a good old unit with a 40w bulb in the bottom. The LED's aren't bright enough and AFAIK Mathmos had issues manufacturing them due to the complexity involved.

Re:What about lava lamps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784041)

What you should be doing is asking yourself why, by your own estimation, you've spent approximately $1200 on lava lamps. If it were up to people like you, the US would be covered in soot, sulfur, mercury and radioactive ash. Why? Because fuck the government and the environment, they shouldn't tell people what kind of energy sources to use and how clean they should be.

Re:What about lava lamps? (2)

compro01 (777531) | about 4 months ago | (#45784099)

Go buy some 40W actual (Think that's 60W equivalent) halogen bulbs. Same heat to melt the wax, but more light.

Re: What about lava lamps? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#45784135)

now that you're aware of the problem.... how much of the bulbs didi you have to change over the last years? just buy enough now that they last you a lifetime..

Incompatibility (2)

MPAB (1074440) | about 4 months ago | (#45783983)

At home the light switches have a dim blue light to be visible in the dark. It seems to be rigged in series with the circuit, so it lights up only when a lightbulb is in the socket. If fluorescent bulbs are installed, they (the bulbs!) will flicker all night long. Also the fluorescent bulbs installed in the bathroom die out very early from the moist. LEDs may be a good solution, but I've yet to find ones that give out enough red tones.

Sometimes you need inefficiency (0)

Bram Stolk (24781) | about 4 months ago | (#45784029)

My previous apartment had a bathroom without conventional heating.
You could still make the bathroom warm enough with the lights above the mirror though.
Six bulbs of 60W gave me a nice and cosy 360W heating, which is actually not that bad in a small bathroom.
If you remember to turn on lights an hour before your shower (in the winter), you would be fine.

My new place has heated floors in the bathroom, so I no longer care.
But for some people, 60W bulbs are nice.

Re:Sometimes you need inefficiency (1)

MichaelSmith (789609) | about 4 months ago | (#45784069)

Yeah for some homes, energy saved in the winter just means running the heaters harder. In other places the heating comes directly from methane and the savings are still there.

How will I heat my home now? (5, Funny)

Snufu (1049644) | about 4 months ago | (#45784115)

Incandescent technology is far superior to LEDs for electrothermal conversion efficiency. LEDs waste too much energy as visible light.

A reminder to Republicans: (0)

L. J. Beauregard (111334) | about 4 months ago | (#45784171)

1) The EISA passed both houses of Congress with a veto-proof majority, one of the last times the Democrats and Republicans agreed on anything. Y'all were fer it before you were agin' it.

2) B. Hussein Osama was part of that veto-proof majority. So yeah, he's marginally more responsible than george w. bush for takin' yer light bulbs.

Halogen are Incandescent... (1)

linearz69 (3473163) | about 4 months ago | (#45784179)

.. so there is no looming "Incandescent Bulb Phase Out" only a phase out of incandescent bulbs that are woefully inefficient at creating visible light.
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