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The Geek Group's Hacker-Oriented High Voltage Lab In Michigan Damaged by Fire

timothy posted about 3 months ago | from the they've-got-stuff-on-ebay-too dept.

Education 65

Tech educational collective The Geek Group, based in Grand Rapids, Michigan, has more than 25,000 members, scattered all over the world — most of whom have never been to their flagship location in Michigan. Sadly, a fire Thursday damaged one of the facilities at their Leonard Street Labs (damage report starts about 26 minutes into this video), the High Voltage Lab. Since there aren't that many places for amateurs and hobbyists to learn about high voltage (even with the growing number of maker spaces around the world), that leaves a hole that hopefully will soon be filled; lucky for anyone interested, The Geek Group welcomes volunteers.

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65 comments

"the growing number of maker spaces" (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45862493)

u wot m8?

Up until the '90s, every nerd was a "maker".

Not again... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45862559)

Why is it that every couple of years something catastrophic happens to the group that severely impacts their progress, and trivializes the hard work of many contributors? And, why does it *have* to be something that’s amplified by the group’s “quirky” management who are clearly out of their league?

My prediction is that their insurance won’t cover this. Eerily enough, the building’s lack of a fire alarm was also made evident. They will have a salvage mission on their hands and they will beg for private donations to cover the expense. Donator’s contributions burnt up in this incident, and donators will again have to swoop in and clean up the mess.

I have no confidence that the group will cease to have these periodic, major incidents. And, I caution everyone to consider that fact before engaging yourself, and especially participating in one of their far-too-often fundraising drives.

I’m sure everyone is aware of my perspective by now, but regardless, it’s been published many, many times in the past that despite the majority of the members being reasonable and well wishing, the management of the group need shuffling.

Re:Not again... (1)

stms (1132653) | about 3 months ago | (#45862889)

It seems plausible that a group of people regularly hacking high voltage equipment might have multiple incidents of fire. I would however be leery about taking their advice regarding the matter.

Re:Not again... (2)

flyneye (84093) | about 3 months ago | (#45863179)

Sounds like the sort of place that needs to be rebuilt; concrete, cinderblock and rubber.
This is the internet, they have 25000 members.
Im guessing between stumping for donations and passing the hat, this can be accomplished quickly.
Theyll be up and Teslaizing before you know it.
Used to be, sticking a fork in the toaster was the extent of learning outside school, and usually the end.
From a Darwinian perspective, the more weeded out through caveat increases the likelyhood of obtaining the services of a COMPETENT electrician in the future.
Maybe its a good thing, maybe its a bad thing. Its definitely a perspective thing.

Re:Not again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863771)

I've worked at several physics labs that way too often would half-ass a test of high voltage and sometimes high power equipment. As long as everyone stood back enough that it wouldn't be a safety hazard, and usually as long as there was not much risk of frying expensive equipment (typically it was old, uncertain equipment being tested anyway). Of course there were plenty of fires, but there was never any serious damage beyond the equipment being tested since a small amount of preparation goes a long way: keep flammable stuff away, have extinguishers on hand, have appropriate power shut offs, etc. The only fires I've seen actually do building damage involved some seriously industrial equipment, or stuff in areas way out of reach, or with equipment that ran unattended overnight (and by far, most of the cases were things like light fixtures and other faults that could as easily happen in a house or much more boring setting).

Oregon State University (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45862893)

The High Voltage Lab at OSU is nearly 100 years old, and they have never had a fire. Wonder why...

Re: Oregon State University (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863145)

Washington State University has a great one too. As an undergrad, I played in there a bit. In the power lab, I got in trouble for experimenting with seeing how many devices I could cascade before I couldnt get useful power out the other end. I started with a 10HP DC-AC motor-gen set and did a bunch of three phase transformer connection to a couple other gensets and all kinds of other stuff in series until I could only power a 100W lightbulb at the end. The prof came in and made me calculate the efficiency and verify all my other connections and told me he would give me extra credit if everything was perfect and none of the equipment was being operated outside its nameplate ratings. It was all good and I aced the class but went into RF and analog design anyway because power engineering was dead at the time.

Re:Oregon State University (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863549)

I don't know and your comment isn't interesting enough for me to wonder why.

Re:Not again... (2)

megabeck42 (45659) | about 3 months ago | (#45863115)

You know, I think the lack of fire alarms is by far the biggest WTF especially considering how much effort they invested in the HV room's grounding setup, for example.

Hindsight's 20/20.

Re:Not again... (3, Insightful)

DerekLyons (302214) | about 3 months ago | (#45863481)

Hindsight's 20/20.

Horsepuckey. Not having fire alarms isn't a "hindsight 20/20" moment (I.E. something no one could have foreseen a need for), it's a "WTF were you *thinking* you blithering idiot" moment.

Re:Not again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863975)

The reality is, the blithering idiot was probably a boss without any knowledge about any kind of voltage, who simply decided that they didn't need a fire protection system. Things like that are about money. Always. After a fire, of course, someone *below* said boss is going to get fired for not "insisting" that they need a fire protection system...

Chris Boden chose ego over safety (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45865753)

The first thing he did after getting this new building was wiring in camera's everywhere so he can be a wannabe youtube celebrity. What he should have done instead was have a fire alarm system installed. The Geek Group has been in there for years, and they've been postponing getting a building occupancy certificate just as long. Getting a fire alarm would have greatly aided their effort at getting one.

But the real problem with working with Chris Boden is that the idea of the Geek Group being a hacker space open to the public is more of a carrot on the end of a stick. Even in kalamazoo this was a problem. Boden just keeps on sidetracking that original goal with new projects, projects that mainly benefit him. Typically resources are squandered constantly building/remodeling studios for him to make his youtube videos. Then there are problem of Geek Group resources being used on properties outside the lab. How many hacker spaces get there own parsonage for select employees? This one does!

In the end, I doubt the Geek Group will ever really reach their goal of being a hacker space open to the public. Eventually the City of Grand Rapids is going to be tired of them and their shennagins and do something to force them out, which is exactly what happened in Kalamazoo.

Re:Not again... (1)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | about 3 months ago | (#45863615)

For what it's worth, fire alarms and large Tesla coils don't mix.

Re:Not again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863759)

The coils I've built for a university outreach program has never had an issue with the fire alarm, despite being sent to quite a few venues, and being shifted around to various crappy storage rooms available for testing and development work. We've had other issues from arcs directly hitting fixtures and sockets in the ceiling, Your mileage may vary, but considering the amount of crappy, aged industrial equipment that can put out a lot of noise without setting off fire alarms, and some simple steps that can be done to keep noise away from areas you are worried about issues, there would be numerous avenues to pursue if you ever did have an issue.

Small Faraday Cage? (1)

BuildMonkey (585376) | about 3 months ago | (#45865999)

Seems like a small Faraday cage [wikipedia.org] around each battery powered smoke detector would work. I have experience with high powered RF (VHF through 2.4GHz, 125W of emitted RF power) and smoke detectors never had a problems with this equipment.

Re:Small Faraday Cage? (1)

Man On Pink Corner (1089867) | about 3 months ago | (#45873969)

The thing is, fire alarms are more than just battery-powered smoke detectors. The alarm sensors are wired to a central control unit, and shielding the wiring is tricky. If you're unlucky enough to have problems, you end up needing to individually RFI-proof all of the sensors as well as the main box.

Either that, or downsize the Tesla coil, and that's no fun...

Re:Not again... (1)

iplayfast (166447) | about 3 months ago | (#45863873)

I watched the video, and he seemed to be handling the situation as well as anyone could. What exactly do you think he should have done. They cleared the building of people, and animals. Found that the fire was in the other end of the building so went and retrieved the expensive cameras. Helped the firemen as best they could, and assessed the damage. He obviously had a plan in place, since they were talking about head counts, and the time it took to evacuate (2 minutes).

I don't think he was out of his league. He was just in a tight spot. Anyone trying to do anything difficult will occasionally get in tight spots. That's just life.

Re:Not again... (1)

BlacKSacrificE (1089327) | about 3 months ago | (#45864999)

Paul Tertuit says:
January 3, 2014 at 9:56 am

Why is it that every couple of years something catastrophic happens to the group that severely impacts their progress, and trivializes the hard work of many contributors? And, why does it *have* to be something that’s amplified by the group’s “quirky” management who are clearly out of their league?..

Why didn't you put your name to your comment here like you did on HaD? [hackaday.com]

Add to the heap (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45862565)

There's been a lengthy discussion over at HaD regarding the fire:

http://hackaday.com/2014/01/03/fire-at-the-geek-group/#comments

Stupid Hackers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45862639)

Move your stupid vehicles for the fire trucks....

Re:Stupid Hackers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863721)

I thought so too... 'till I saw the fucking concrete blocks in the way. Way to pay attention, Captain Anonymous!

This fire was.. (4, Funny)

Anubis350 (772791) | about 3 months ago | (#45862663)

...Shocking! I'm positive the emergency contacts for the lab blew their fuse when they heard. Nothing like getting such negative reports to ground you in the harsh reality of life's load.

Saw the vid earlier (1)

kilodelta (843627) | about 3 months ago | (#45862741)

It's a shame. I would imagine that's all insured and such. But they're going to need cleanup supplies, etc. Just go hit their amazon page to donate those.

25,000 members (1)

BringsApples (3418089) | about 3 months ago | (#45862743)

So each throw in $2.00, fix the lab.

Re:25,000 members (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45862807)

pay?

dude, that's like buying a CD or blu ray. geeks don't pay

Re: 25,000 members (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45862885)

Correction... Geeks pay for quality like the lab, not quantity like CDs or blueray, so shove it

Re:25,000 members (2)

MattskEE (925706) | about 3 months ago | (#45862871)

I doubt they really have 25,000 members, that's probably the number of people who have signed up on their forums at one point or another. Active membership is surely much smaller.

Ohh.. high *voltage*! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863043)

No wonder no one came to my high current lab!

Re:Ohh.. high *voltage*! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863691)

They couldn't have faced that much resistance.

Surprised? (0)

PNutts (199112) | about 3 months ago | (#45863531)

What a mess. And where the fire was is in pretty bad shape, too. The guy that kept his face in front of the camera and wouldn't stop talking was too irritating to me to watch the whole video, but I saw a hazardous, sloppy work area. So my comments are I'm glad nobody was hurt and why did it take so long to have a fire?

Hackerspaces.... (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863629)

So my local hackerspace basically went quasi bankrupt once or twice, they sent out emails asking people to fundraise to pay the rest. Prior to that they had a brief legal battle with their landlord about rent/improvements they made to offset rent and so on. Do I want to get involved in this? .... No. So I'm kitting out my garage long term as a maker space for myself and my kids. Maybe if we had a maker space with like a minimum age of 30 or something.....

Re:Hackerspaces.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863695)

Holy crap, are you in Montreal? Maybe "hackerspaces" are all the same because tech nerds overall seem quite childish.

Re:Hackerspaces.... (1)

Lehk228 (705449) | about 3 months ago | (#45864665)

I'm kitting out my garage long term as a maker space for myself

it's called a workshop

Never heard of them (2)

RedBear (207369) | about 3 months ago | (#45863773)

It's very weird to me that I've been reading /. and other geeky websites for a decade and a half and I've never, ever heard of this "The Geek Group" with 25,000 members and a 42,000 square foot headquarters/lab facility. What is their purpose? Should I have heard of them? Where would I hear about them, if not here? Am I supposed to turn in my geek card if I have no idea who these people are? Are they the ones that issue geek cards in the first place?

Questions abound.

Re:Never heard of them (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45863831)

Same thought I had -- I'm a EE from way back, and I've NEVER heard of this outfit. That hardly seems possible with 25,000 "members" out there espousing the benefits of getting involved.

Re:Never heard of them (3, Informative)

Obliterous (466068) | about 3 months ago | (#45863911)

Disclaimer up front: I am a IRC moderator and web volunteer for the Geek Group.

Remember the shrunken quarters that you used to be able to get over at thinkgeek? Yeah, The Geek Group made them. you can still buy them over at thegeekgroup.org/store

I'll be the first to admit that a lot of people don't like Chris Boden, but really, what large organization DOESN'T have a personality conflict or two?

Yeah, Chris can be kind of a dick at times, but this whole thing started as his dream, and still is. You'd be a dick too, if people were fucking with or fucking up YOUR dreams.

Please keep in mind, tho, that every story has more than one viewpoint, and there's more than one person that has been asked to leave and never come back, and some of them stir up shit as often as they can.

As for the clutter in the room, the area has been used to store a lot of spare parts, both new and used, like high voltage power supplies, actuators, and parts for various future projects.

So Yeah, lessons have been learned, the cleanup has already started and plans for rebuilding are being made and executed. Maybe they'll even be able to find a smoke detector that can handle being next to a 100KW arc.

If you're interested in helping out, chatting, or just seeing what the Geek Group is all about, I suggest you watch their videos on youtube, visit their web page, and/or come join us in IRC @ irc://irc.thegeekgroup.org/#thegeekgroup

Re:Never heard of them (1)

lebjoot (560242) | about 3 months ago | (#45864547)

[quote] Maybe they'll even be able to find a smoke detector that can handle being next to a 100KW arc.[/quote]

Arc on, detector off, then on again after a while is worth a try no?

Re:Never heard of them (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45865711)

There was smoke coming out of the door. Probably not necessary to have the smoke detector "next to a 100KW arc". Behind the safety cage would be close enough.

And yeah, that guy is annoying on video.

Re:Never heard of them (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45867855)

You should look at his google+ "about" page...

"the life and adventures of a true American Badass, Entrepreneur, Adventurer, Inventor, Engineer, and Philanthropist."

That's an awful lot of ego to cram in such a tiny little body. Maybe that's why his hairline is receding so much, narcissism is toxic to hair follicles?

Re:Never heard of them (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45864245)

You never heard of them? They are on Youtube and have their own website. And yes it is a 42,000 square foot facility with the biggest Tesla Coil. Who else has brand new modern CNC machines from Haas, HV, Audio/Video, Automotive, Electronics, Woodworking etc. The list goes on.

And they do have 25,000+ members, not just at that location - they are also world wide.

Re:Never heard of them (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45864777)

25,000 is how many people they have "worldwide". Physically, they only have like 20 people. Chris, the owner has managed to swindle lots of donations out of people since he has been in this business (I met him in 1997), so he bought an old YMCA after a long line of other locations.

No need to turn in your geek card or anything else. It's a group of 1 guy who cycles through volunteers on a very regular basis who sucks $$ of out the community that could be much better spent on the real makerspaces around town. He posts videos and counts followers on his videos as "members".

Look up his history. He actually burned down his first building in Grand Rapids. He then moved to Kalamazoo and got run out of that town. He's on a first-name basis with his entire insurance company (not just the agent) because of all the incidents they've had to pay out for. He says he teaches kids and teens (he does hold workshops on occasion), but the amount of money he burns through could be much better spent on real community projects -- not his pet projects.

Re:Never heard of them (3, Interesting)

slewfo0t (679988) | about 3 months ago | (#45865337)

Obviously this was posted by someone from the "Other" makerspace in town. Physically we have much more than 20 people, there are several hundred working directly with The Geek Group on a daily basis. Anyone can become a member - just visit the website and sign up it's free. If you want to work on projects at the lab, it's $40/month. The Geek Group is much more than a physical building, it's a community. It's geeks online and at the multiple facilities around the globe. It's crowd sourced engineering and science. It's a place to learn and teach technology. The Geek Group isn't just a makerspace, it's an entire community of folks trying to learn and teach technology. The fire here at the lab is a huge blow to what we've been working so hard on for so long. To sit on your armchair soapbox and dismiss it as you do and post as an anonymous coward speaks volumes as to the type of person you are. I'm sorry you hold so much contempt for such a great place. If you had any kind of soul, you would come out and help out with the rest of community. The Geek Group will get the mess cleaned up and get back open to the public. In the meantime, come volunteer at the greatest hackerspace around and show what your made of. Slewfoot

Re:Never heard of them (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45866575)

You mean the "Other" makerspace that decided they needed their own building, then rapidly renovated it and opened it as promised. Chris Boden has been promising to have a makerspace for the past decade now. He's been open for a grand total of 1 1/2 days for a decade of effort, then it catches on fire. Not very efficient way of doing business. That lack of success doesn't stop him from having his personal vehicles from being tricked out with donated items and labor for all those years, or the use of Geek Group owned real estate for his private personal use. Do Geek Group members get to drive Chris's cars? I doubt it, but why did Geek Group resources get used on them? How's that Lotus Esprit doing? You guys made a huge fuss and put out press releases everywhere on the net about converting that to an electric car. How far are you going in that effort? It looks like a bunch of high school students beat you to it, and you've had over 2 years.

The Geek Group claims to have affiliated satellite groups. But they are simply intents to organize by a single person, not actual active groups. Chris Boden will fail to tell you that they never got off the ground. He'll gladly claim they exist. 20 people is entirely accurate. You guys are great at announcing huge milestones and the start of new projects, but when someone were try and follow up to see if what you claim is actually true or if the projects actually finish, they will find the results are piss poor. You guys are all talk and no show.

Re:Never heard of them (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45867703)

Nope, not affiliated with one of the hackerspaces in town. I don't live in town anymore, but I do work with another hackerspace in Michigan. You know, one that has been open to the public for YEARS. As long as Chris is associated with the space, I wouldn't touch it with a 20' pole -- and I advise others to do the same. I'd offer you to look at the other makerspaces in town and around town to see what a real, sane and SAFE makerspace looks like -- not one that just has lots of tools and a lunatic that has no idea how to use them safely.

I used to volunteer at TGG in the 90's. That was, until Chris pulled a gun on a fellow member and fired it inside the space. That was also the day that he illegally hooked up one of the tesla coils directly to the outside pole on the space on Ionia, and that fellow member threatened to call it in to the power company.

Why post as an A.C.? I am truly worried he might hunt me down. The dude is unstable and has been.

Re:Never heard of them (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45866739)

Why does he still have Insurance then?

Re:Never heard of them (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45867567)

I'm pretty sure this is the last claim he ever be able to file with his current insurer. They are going to drop him like a hot potato. His next Tesla coil is going to have be UL approved and installed by a licensed electrician, combined with the entire building being outfitted with a fire alarm and sprinkler system if he has any hope of being insurable.

Grand Rapids? (1)

realinvalidname (529939) | about 3 months ago | (#45865085)

As a Grand Rapidian geek, I had no idea we had something like this in town. I must check this out once they're back on their feet.

Re:Grand Rapids? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45865551)

Me too. I didn't know about it either. How about you join me helping get them back on their feet?

Re:Grand Rapids? (1)

wannabe1987 (3485797) | about 3 months ago | (#45867479)

Or you could check out the 'other' space in town, GRMakers.com

Re:Grand Rapids? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45867769)

Be glad you aren't volunteering with TGG anymore. In his latest video [youtube.com] he was dressed up in his spiffy leather jacket with leather gloves barking orders at soot covered volunteers telling them to save all of the burnt remnants of the capacitors so he could encase them in epoxy and sell them on ebay as a fund raiser. Yup, he is literally having them sift through the ashes to salvage useless burned up garbage. It's partially his fault the place burned, you'd think that he'd put on some old clothes and join the others in wiping off and vacuuming the soot everywhere. But nope, he doesn't lift a finger and shout orders at his obedient little minions. That video in a nutshell sums up what TGG is truly about.

Re:Grand Rapids? (0)

SparkyProjects (3487633) | about 3 months ago | (#45877847)

Sure you could check out GR Makers, see what they charge for a garage sized building with very little. Then you could check out TGG prices ($40/month) and get access to millions of $$$ of machines in a 42,000 sq ft building

Re:Grand Rapids? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45879981)

They have millions of dollars worth of machinery, but nobody except Chris, Liz, and other high ranking member get to use them. Someone comes in there off the street, and Chris will have them doing the shittiest grunt work imaginable for the promise of being able to use that equipment later. Eventually said person will realize that such work never pays off as Chris will keep on moving the goalposts and have more work for you to do before you get the play with the good stuff then quit in disgust. That's been the pattern of the Geek Group and Chris Boden since it began. It's not going to change.

There is a reason why they formed that group. They don't want to have an abrasive asshole constantly breathing down their neck telling them to dig holes then refill them and someday they will be rewarded for it. They wanted a facility where they can collaborate and work without interference without some loon barking orders at them constantly.

The lab is going to be closed for another 2 years. Chris won't reopen to the public until Gemini is rebuilt. He's going to to find something wrong with the High Voltage Lab which will require years worth of drudgery to fix. He will change his mind halfway through, and everyone will be restarting from scratch. And why the hell does a maker space need a high voltage lab to functional in order to be open to the public? High voltage is only relevant to a small minority of makers.

Re:Grand Rapids? (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45867793)

I'm sure Chris will promise to have the space open within 2 years, just in time for another major mishap that pushes it back again. It's the way that it's been going since about 1998.

Or you could join as a "member". He gets to yell at you, berate you, and have you clean his shit. If you don't, he kicks you out.

There is lots of other cool shit happening in the city. Take advantage of those and avoid this asshole instead.

There was another odd fire in Grand Rapids (1)

landofcleve (1959610) | about 3 months ago | (#45865461)

The Fifth Third Ballpark went up in flames mysteriously as well yesterday.

Re:There was another odd fire in Grand Rapids (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45866077)

This GR fire bothers me more. It's something that matters.

Re:There was another odd fire in Grand Rapids (1)

realinvalidname (529939) | about 3 months ago | (#45866809)

Yeah, but the fire department attributed the ballpark fire to a work crew knocking over a space heater, starting a fire, putting it out, and then walking away, exacerbated by the sprinkler system being turned off. That's not mysterious so much as it is just plain foolish.

Re:There was another odd fire in Grand Rapids (1)

landofcleve (1959610) | about 3 months ago | (#45867795)

That seems akin to the situation in this story where they ran the equipment right before the fire to show off to a potential employee and then locked it up and walked away.

Voltage rating (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 3 months ago | (#45865773)

Does anyone know their maximum voltage rating? I work in a private lab that has the capability to generate 600 kV. I'm just curious. I didn't find it on their website.

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