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95% of ATMs Worldwide Are Still Using Windows XP

samzenpus posted about 8 months ago | from the if-it-aint-broke dept.

The Almighty Buck 346

BUL2294 writes "95% of the world's ATM machines are still running Windows XP and banks are already purchasing extended support agreements from Microsoft. (some of the affected ATMs are running XP Embedded, which has a support lifecycle until January, 2016). 'Microsoft is selling custom tech support agreements that extend the life of Windows XP, although the cost can soar quickly—multiplying by a factor of five in the second year, says Korala. JPMorgan is buying a one-year extension and will start converting its machines to Windows 7 in July; about 3,000 of its 19,000 ATMs need enhancements before the process can begin...'"

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Relevant XKCD (5, Funny)

iYk6 (1425255) | about 8 months ago | (#45981517)

RELEVANT SIMPSONS (1, Funny)

Jeremiah Cornelius (137) | about 8 months ago | (#45981687)

http://www.nelson-haha.com/ [nelson-haha.com]

Re:RELEVANT SIMPSONS (2)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#45981967)

Ah, a good old Nelsoning is hard to top.

Re:Relevant XKCD (5, Funny)

Art Challenor (2621733) | about 8 months ago | (#45981733)

I was thinking this one: http://xkcd.com/463/ [xkcd.com]

Price? (5, Insightful)

mriswith (797850) | about 8 months ago | (#45981521)

The cost of the support agreements, would still be less than the replacement of several thousand ATMs and internal systems. There is a reason why people do this, and it's not just lazyniess..

Re:Price? (5, Interesting)

icebike (68054) | about 8 months ago | (#45981725)

There is a reason why people do this, and it's not just lazyniess..

Still, you would have thought they would have learned a few lessons by now.

JPMorgan is buying a one-year extension and will start converting its machines to Windows 7 in July;

Anything that can run Windows 7 could run linux.
Anything that can run embedded Windows 7 would have no problem running linux.
Or OpenBSD.
You can replace the entire motherboard and processor with something 10 times as expensive as a Raspberry Pi for $350, and still save money over paying Microsoft extensions for every terminal.

There will be several companies dragged before congress [nbcnews.com] . There have been multi-billion dollar losses. How many times do you have to let hackers make you their bitches before you cry uncle and at least look at a Linux solution?

Re:Price? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981831)

Anything that can run Windows 7 could run linux.
Anything that can run embedded Windows 7 would have no problem running linux.

Implying they wouldn't even have to lift a finger to update the kernel from 2.0 to 2.6 to whatever lies beyond, let alone any other part of the distribution. Everything will just be updated and be put thorough OEM certification 3 seconds after every new patch comes out through the magic of pixie dust sprinkled by RMS wearing a Tinkerbell outfit and B-52 sized fairy wings.

Freetards are so funny.

Re: Price? (0, Troll)

VTBlue (600055) | about 8 months ago | (#45981897)

Why would a risk averse organization that makes billions of dollars a quarter expose itself to potential lawsuits for an operating system that provides no indemnity from patents?

Re: Price? (2)

icebike (68054) | about 8 months ago | (#45982023)

Why not?
Nobody has successfully proven a patent infringements in Linux.
Even Microsoft has given up, and is now a major Linux contributor.

Re: Price? (-1, Troll)

VTBlue (600055) | about 8 months ago | (#45982075)

Umm if your only standard is the number of successful patent claims against Linux, than you really need to brush of on tech litigation and tech settlements related to Linux. Microsoft has extracted millions from companies that support the Linux ecosystem. Heard of Android for that matter? Even the biggest corporate proponents of Linux are paying millions of dollars in patent licenses a year to small time patent trolls and legitimate patent holders. There is a reason that "Linux" doesn't get sued. "Linux" has no money. It's the big dogs who sell, distribute, support, and use Linux commercially who get targeted by law firms representing patent holders.

Re: Price? (3, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about 8 months ago | (#45982143)

Your spewing FUD.

Google, Amazon, IBM, and even Microsoft themselves are all HUGE Linux users.
Big business isn't afraid of Linux.

Re: Price? (4, Insightful)

MightyMartian (840721) | about 8 months ago | (#45982209)

What a load of shit. Some of the biggest corporations in the world use Linux.

IBM demonstrated quite nicely what happens when some patent troll tries to shut down Linux.

Re: Price? (2)

fredprado (2569351) | about 8 months ago | (#45982051)

Because the multibillion dollar organization, averse as it may be to risk, is very hard to bully especially when you are trying to patent troll them.

Re: Price? (1, Funny)

dbIII (701233) | about 8 months ago | (#45982325)

Face it kid, linux is so mainstream these days that even Haliburton not only use it but sell software to run on it.
If you are object to being called "kid" then I suggest not acting like one.

Re:Price? (0)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about 8 months ago | (#45982179)

.... then add the cost of redeveloping and retesting the code that runs the entire ATM network.

Re:Price? (4, Insightful)

turbidostato (878842) | about 8 months ago | (#45981931)

"The cost of the support agreements, would still be less than the replacement of several thousand ATMs and internal systems."

It won't. Is this extended support going to avoid XP from being replaced? I bet not. Therefore paying for the extended support *plus* replacing is certainly going to cost more than just replacing.

"There is a reason why people do this, and it's not just lazyniess.."

It *is* lazyness.

The very day they started deploying XP they knew that would come to an end for the very reason they were using a closed-source license-based operating system.

Paying through the nose now for something they knew it was coming but didn't nothing in time is the very definition of lazyness.

Re:Price? (1)

viperidaenz (2515578) | about 8 months ago | (#45982223)

'license-based' has nothing to do with it.
They don't have to stop using the software, they just won't get free security updates.

closed-source also has nothing to do with it.
It it were open source, they'd need to hire staff to do the maintenance.

Re:Price? (1)

tftp (111690) | about 8 months ago | (#45982305)

Is this extended support going to avoid XP from being replaced? I bet not. Therefore paying for the extended support *plus* replacing is certainly going to cost more than just replacing.

That's not the case. XP-based ATMs probably run on a horribly slow SBC that has 512 MB of RAM (why to pay for more if the application does not need it?) The goal of this extension is simply to wait until existing machines reach their scheduled replacement dates. Then they will be scrapped. The new machines will be based on something else... which, you can bet, will be also obsolete in 10 years.

The Market? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981531)

If there is that big of a market why is nobody selling/buying a replacement OS already? Particularly one cheaper than windows.

Re:The Market? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981655)

Because Microsoft can be sued if they need to? Those defect insurance policies can run into the tens of millions. Not that it matters, since the banks that back the policy would be the ones suing, but this stuff is important if your industry regularly has to be feeding people as sacrifices to appease panicky investors.

Re:The Market? (5, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about 8 months ago | (#45981737)

Because Microsoft can be sued if they need to?

Ah, no. Not going to happen.
Your hardware, you installed the software,
You managed it for the last 10 years,
You probably didn't apply patches...

No way that ever gets a dime out of Microsoft in court.

Re:The Market? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45982117)

Please, what JP Morgan wants, JP Morgan gets. The only ones the banks might lose too is the military. If they really want that money, they could have their partners use the voting rights on the stocks and get a new board, one that will pay out while smiling.

Re:The Market? (3, Insightful)

camperdave (969942) | about 8 months ago | (#45981845)

Banks wouldn't sue in a case like this. Banks would go to the government for a bailout.

JPMorgan == stupid? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981537)

Sure, let's just update our ATMs to another product that is going to go out of support soon. (Soon being January of 2020 - so they get maybe 5.5 years out of it depending on how fast they deploy). Heck, Windows 7 goes out of mainstream support and into extended in a couple of days less than a year...

JPMorgan = helpdesk in Philippines & IT subcon (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 8 months ago | (#45981647)

JPMorgan = helpdesk in Philippines & parts of IT subcontract out (at least the field part is) and likely parts office IT as well.

Re:JPMorgan == To Big to Fail (1)

plopez (54068) | about 8 months ago | (#45981983)

Meaning they do not have to be smart, efficient, or customer oriented. No matter how badly they screw up Congress will be there to rescue them.

What about OS/2? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981541)

It seems every article that mentions OS/2 makes mention of how entrenched it is in ATMs...

Re:What about OS/2? (1)

suso (153703) | about 8 months ago | (#45981575)

It seems every article that mentions OS/2 makes mention of how entrenched it is in ATMs...

There is also a restaurant up the street from me that has the best burgers in town.

Re:What about OS/2? (1)

spazzmo (743767) | about 8 months ago | (#45981941)

Really, I used to play cricket once...

Re:What about OS/2? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45982027)

I kinda got angry myself and I said, hahaha, gotta lot of guns hahaha, I like salad, I just ate a nice salad, baked potato, with some cream cheese and chives, you know I like just, I like to eat a salad

Re:What about OS/2? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981669)

I use a small bank with just a handful of branches. All their ATMs use OS/2.

Re:What about OS/2? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981713)

OS/2 was entrenched. The ADA a couple of years ago declared that all ATMs must have blind support. That meant adding sound. The OS/2 machines could in the main not support that service and as such were retired. It was a field day for NCR, Hyosung and Diebold with hundreds of thousands of new ATMs being purchased. These new ADA compliant ATMs were replaced mostly by Windows XP driven ATMs, with the promise that the ATMs could be upgraded to Windows 7 when it became necessary.

I have only been working with Diebold, but they are refusing to hire sufficient (or maybe any idk) additional hands to deal with the necessary surge in maintenance to upgrade to Windows 7.

All that being said, the XP ATMs are perfectly safe. They are behind some rather crazy firewalls. It would be rather difficult to get into them to take advantage of any potential problem. (The issue for the bank / ATM driver / card processor not being the loss of the cash, but rather the loss of the customer information.)

Hmmm. Better post this anonymously.

Let me laugh even harder... (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45982123)

All that being said, the XP ATMs are perfectly safe. They are behind some rather crazy firewalls.

Nope.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/173701-atms-running-windows-xp-robbed-with-infected-usb-sticks-yes-most-atms-still-run-windows [extremetech.com]

And another successful attack vector using Plotus http://www.atmmarketplace.com/article/221087/Mexican-ATMs-fall-prey-to-new-cyberattack [atmmarketplace.com]

Successful malware attacks (both gaining access to the local cash and screen scraping and keystroke recording of customer information) through ATMs have been going on since 2008 and Diebold would most certainly be well aware of this, even if they are choosing not to bring it to your attention.

should have gone with a browser... (3, Insightful)

johnjones (14274) | about 8 months ago | (#45981549)

I never understand why ATM's dont use HTML/SVG and then the OS is replaceable as a browser is the interface and a HTTP server security is well understood and network security would be part of a core competency

thoughts ?

john jones

Re:should have gone with a browser... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981621)

At some point you still need to interface with non-keyboard, non-mouse hardware -- a browser isn't going to solve that problem.

Re:should have gone with a browser... (2)

ixidor (996844) | about 8 months ago | (#45981727)

right but thats the point, if the core app is html based any os should work. stick some linux or bsd on there to talk to the network card.

Re:should have gone with a browser... (1)

deKernel (65640) | about 8 months ago | (#45982219)

Make a suggestion, get to know all of the crazy pieces of unique hardware that an ATM MUST support. Here I will give you a hint on just one: you know that clunky old 16 key keypad you see...well that does FAR more that just send key presses.

Re:should have gone with a browser... (1)

Dan East (318230) | about 8 months ago | (#45981625)

Maybe they do now, but the ATMs in question are so old they are running a 12 year old OS. Do you happen to remember the state of HTML and web browsers 12 years ago? I'll give you a hint. They certainly didn't support SVG then.

Re:should have gone with a browser... (1)

DaHat (247651) | about 8 months ago | (#45981631)

HTML/SVG tend to be sandboxed to some extent... ditto for JavaScript... how do you propose your HTML based ATM interact with the card reader, cash dispenser, receipt printer or deposit slot?

ATMs are more than just a touch screen with a UI.

Re:should have gone with a browser... (3, Funny)

dantotheman (2887483) | about 8 months ago | (#45981671)

Maybe they do now, but the ATMs in question are so old they are running a 12 year old OS. Do you happen to remember the state of HTML and web browsers 12 years ago? I'll give you a hint. They certainly didn't support SVG then.

HTML/SVG tend to be sandboxed to some extent... ditto for JavaScript... how do you propose your HTML based ATM interact with the card reader, cash dispenser, receipt printer or deposit slot?

ATMs are more than just a touch screen with a UI.

ActiveX controls running in IE 7

shiver...

Re:should have gone with a browser... (1)

icebike (68054) | about 8 months ago | (#45981755)

I'd wager there is nothing in the typical ATM that a Rasbperry Pi couldn't handle.

Re:should have gone with a browser... (1)

deKernel (65640) | about 8 months ago | (#45982231)

Then I would say you have wagered wrong. As I stated above responding some another persons uninformed opinion, the volume of crazy unique hardware in an ATM that you have to support might surprise you.

Re:should have gone with a browser... (1)

johnjones (14274) | about 8 months ago | (#45981815)

HTTP server is local... browser is local !

Obvious choice I think (5, Funny)

Mateo_LeFou (859634) | about 8 months ago | (#45981555)

Windows XP is the only operating system stable & secure enough to handle sensitive transactions such as cash dispensing.

Re:Obvious choice I think (1)

abirdman (557790) | about 8 months ago | (#45981599)

Brilliant!

Windows.. (4, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | about 8 months ago | (#45981559)

Is a bad choice anyway. Not just a Microsoft bash, but aside from all the security issues, windows is XP is a desktop platform, not a OS to be putting on dedicated devices ( even the so-called embedded version really isn't any more appropriate for this, don't let the marketing folks fool you )

An ATM should be running off a custom embedded OS targeted for this purpose, not a commodity OS.

Re:Windows.. (5, Insightful)

Em Adespoton (792954) | about 8 months ago | (#45981593)

An ATM should be running off a custom embedded OS targeted for this purpose, not a commodity OS.

It is... it's called XP Embedded, as outlined in the summary. And yes, bank machines were a major target during XP Embedded's design phase.

Of course, it would make MORE sense to use an embedded OS where the banks/ATM manufacturers have full access to the source.

Re:Windows.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981811)

Of course, it would make MORE sense to use an embedded OS where the banks/ATM manufacturers have full access to the source.

why would that make more sense? what bank/ATM manufacturer wants to deal with operating system development and maintenance?

Re:Windows.. (1)

alen (225700) | about 8 months ago | (#45981813)

from what i read bank machines are a major target for a lot of software products being used today

Re:Windows.. (2)

Kjella (173770) | about 8 months ago | (#45982201)

Of course, it would make MORE sense to use an embedded OS where the banks/ATM manufacturers have full access to the source.

OS/2 had its heyday in the early 90s, ATMs used it way into the 2000s.
XPe had its heyday in the early 00s, ATMs are using it way into the 2010s.
Embedded Linux has its heyday now in the early 10s, draw your own conclusions.

ATM vendors are extremely conservative, they tend to use platforms others already think are obsolete. They'll come along eventually, it's not like the cell phone market where you can flip the market upside down in 2-3 years.

Re:Windows.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981683)

Is a bad choice anyway. Not just a Microsoft bash, but aside from all the security issues, windows is XP is a desktop platform, not a OS to be putting on dedicated devices

Thank you Mr. Fucking Obvious.

Re:Windows.. (4, Insightful)

erice (13380) | about 8 months ago | (#45982041)

Is a bad choice anyway. Not just a Microsoft bash, but aside from all the security issues, windows is XP is a desktop platform, not a OS to be putting on dedicated devices ( even the so-called embedded version really isn't any more appropriate for this, don't let the marketing folks fool you )

An ATM should be running off a custom embedded OS targeted for this purpose, not a commodity OS.

Who is going to write, maintain, and keep secure this custom OS?

The trouble with custom embedded OS's is that, in spite of the best intentions to limit their scope, they almost always need more features than can be written from scratch by a small team and be obviously secure. So they port code from more commodity OS's. Due to limited resources, the code in the embedded OS tends to fall behind. The porting effort can introduce bugs too that are non-obvious to the guy doing the port because he doesn't fully understand what he is porting.

Isn't this headline kinda weird (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981583)

95% of ATMs run Windows XP
%P of ATMs run Windows 95

Re:Isn't this headline kinda weird (2)

egcagrac0 (1410377) | about 8 months ago | (#45981603)

I see more ATMs running Windows 2000 than Windows 95.

I think Windows 98 and OS/2 still have a comparable market share, however.

Re:Isn't this headline kinda weird (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981667)

I work with banks on their ATM testing (test automation software) and I only see WinXP. Where do you live that you see 2000, 98 and OS/2?

yes, but... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981589)

"95% of the world's ATM machines are still running Windows XP

Yes, but what about the *automatic* ATM machines? Those are the ones I most am concerned about.

Re:yes, but... (1)

CannonballHead (842625) | about 8 months ago | (#45981651)

I'm actually more concerned with the those ATM teller machines outside of my bank.

Go to 8 (5, Funny)

cosm (1072588) | about 8 months ago | (#45981595)

To hell with 7. Please put Windows 8 on the ATMs instead! I already love how ATMs do a wonderful job of selecting the wrong option for me after finally getting the card to take, only to then take me into the Spanish menu, spitting out a receipt, and then not accepting my card again while the line forms behind me! Metro can only enhance this lovely experience! Hell, add a kinect to it so when I flip it a golden salute it recognizes my input and doubles the ATM fee! Gotta keep up with the bank's great customer service these days!

Re:Go to 8 (4, Insightful)

CannonballHead (842625) | about 8 months ago | (#45981659)

Actually, how would Metro be a bad thing? This is pretty much exactly what Metro is meant for - one application, completely full screen, used with a touch screen ...

Re:Go to 8 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981795)

No, no. There must be a 'cursor' that you drag around when using the touch screen. This is what the pcmasterrace demands.

And like the 'Start' button, when you're finished with your transactions you have to go to the 'Withdrawl' option by dragging your 'cursor' to that button and then selecting the option 'End'

Re:Go to 8 (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45982049)

What?

Re:Go to 8 (5, Funny)

404 Clue Not Found (763556) | about 8 months ago | (#45982321)

From actually using Windows 8, what would likely happen is this: You'd get to the screen to select a withdrawal amount, and there would be no preset value buttons, just a text box. You wait, and wait, and then realize you're supposed to click on that textbox. An on-screen keyboard pops up and obscures the text box, but there's no numbers to enter. You search for the alt input button and finally type in the buttons, but then there's no Done button to be found because it's hidden under the onscreen keyboard. You eventually figure out that you can swipe the keyboard down and away, but in doing so you accidentally touched the CLEAR button underneath it, so you have to repeat the process all over again.

Not wanting to repeat this nightmare the next time you use the machine, you try to find the option to set your Fast Cash preferences for next time. You find an options button, push it, and the entire screen turns a pretty shade of blue with an ugly little upsampled flash loading animation twirling around the middle. You push the screen a few more times, it doesn't register the click, but eventually it loads and you've noticed that you're finally in the Options screen -- in Spanish. You ask somebody in line behind you to help you translate it, and eventually you change it back to English.

At this point you just want your card back, but all that's left on the screen is that stupid text box again. There's no Done or Quit button. You madly touch the screen from various angles, with various numbers of fingers, until you accidentally swipe some mysterious portion of it and then suddenly an extended options bar pops up asking if you want to share your transaction with Facebook. No, you just want your god damned card back. So you keep swiping, and somehow you end up in the Windows Store. You manage to back out if it, but only by accidentally switching to Desktop Mode, and now you can't switch back because the taskbar is hidden by CRT overscan. It's a machine from the early 2000s, after all.

You start crying and walk away in frustration. The guy behind you, one of four happy Windows 8 users, walks you through the process of swiping down, down, down from the top until you finally close the app and get your card back. Sobbing by now, you give him a great big hug and try to swipe him a 20 in gratitude, but he rejects it and instead gives you his well-worn personal copy of Windows 8 ATMs for Dummies.

You live happily ever after.

Let's go one better... (2)

djbckr (673156) | about 8 months ago | (#45981597)

Is the dispensing software is written in Java? Half kidding, and wondering at the same time.

Re:Let's go one better... (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981723)

I worked for an ATM software development shop called Phoenix Interactive. The software we wrote was mostly C++, with some C mixed in to deal with updating the main software. The main ATM manufacturers (Diebold, Wincor, NCR) all only create Windows drivers (or did, 10 years ago when I worked there). The OS is locked down hard, while you may see the occasional blue screen, even if you had a keyboard plugged in you would not be able to stop the software from running or move it to the background without triggering a restart and a tamper alert back to the bank. Windows can be locked down just as well as Linux, it's just a royal pain in the ass to do so.

Re:Let's go one better... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981841)

The chip on the smart card runs java.

Wow. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981605)

I had no idea Microsoft had such a large share of the ATM market.

At least they have that to fall back on when this whole "mobile" thing doesn't work out for them.

Re:Wow. (2)

roc97007 (608802) | about 8 months ago | (#45981675)

Yeah, there must be, oh, thousands of ATMs out there.

Re:Wow. (1)

camperdave (969942) | about 8 months ago | (#45981865)

Wouldn't surprise me if there were more ATMS than Windows mobiles.

Re:Wow. (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 8 months ago | (#45981911)

I'm a little surprised they're not trying to push one code base on PCs, tablets, phones, ATMs and Warships.

Re: Wow. (2, Insightful)

VTBlue (600055) | about 8 months ago | (#45981969)

Most people who comment on Microsoft stories here are clueless about the company's product portfolio, customer base, policies, and competitive status. Not saying that you're one of them though >:)>

Re: Wow. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45982171)

Most people who comment on Microsoft stories here ...

... will tell you Microsoft is the worst at every market for which they produce a product, that's why for the most part this site isn't taken particularly seriously in terms of honest technical discussion, its more about overly flamey/trolling of "the other camp", which is to say a competitor to the product/company the person uses. It is mostly (not totally) full of religious-types that associate themselves with a technology company and/or against a technology company and even specific devices.

It used to be about geeks discussing technology but these days the most popular stories are those that end up as flamewars:
iFans v Fandroids
Microsoft haters v Microsoft hater trolls
Every programming language is rubbish
NSA herp derp circle jerk
Republicans v Democrats

I throw this out there often (5, Interesting)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about 8 months ago | (#45981623)

As someone who has worked with Diebold, they have never have more than 3 programmers and they only use and have ever used Visual Basic. This is why their ATMs (and voting machines) are required to run Windows.

Re:I throw this out there often (1)

unitron (5733) | about 8 months ago | (#45981691)

What did they do before Microsoft came along?

ATMs were around in the early '70s when Gates was running something called Traf-o-data, what did they run on then?

OS/2 Warp (3, Informative)

transporter_ii (986545) | about 8 months ago | (#45981765)

[O]verall, OS/2 failed to catch on in the mass market and is little used outside certain niches where IBM traditionally had a stronghold. For example, many bank installations, especially Automated Teller Machines, run OS/2 with a customized user interface.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2 [wikipedia.org]

Re:OS/2 Warp (1)

exomondo (1725132) | about 8 months ago | (#45981823)

OS/2 Warp was around in the 70s?

Re:I throw this out there often (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981789)

From what I can tell the first Diebold ATM [google.com] was used in September 1978.

It probably used QBasic. I'm not really sure, I was using a VIC-20 around that time, IBM clones were too expensive.

Re:I throw this out there often (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981833)

QBasic in 1978, eh?

Re: I throw this out there often (1)

ColdWetDog (752185) | about 8 months ago | (#45981951)

Midgets. Lots of midgets.

I saw one running on a PDP-11/05. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981953)

I recall seeing the insides of one ATM in that era. It ran on a PDP-11/05.

Global Financial Collapse (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981661)

Seriously? Windows on ATMs? Are they trying to have that acronym thought of as "Ass To Mouth"?

Re:Global Financial Collapse (4, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | about 8 months ago | (#45981681)

Actually, that doesn't worry me nearly as much as Windows for Warships.

Re:Global Financial Collapse (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981857)

Actually, that doesn't worry me nearly as much as Windows for Warships.

You jest but the US Navy was (is?) using Windows as the OS for drive-by-wire hovercrafts. One bluescreened and ran out of control in San Franscisco.

~Demonoid Penguin (moderating)

Re:Global Financial Collapse (1)

YrWrstNtmr (564987) | about 8 months ago | (#45981949)

Ahhh....that meme is so tired. You do realize that wasn't a 'Windows' issue, but rather a crappily created application issue. IIRC, an input that allowed a zero (or null) value when it shouldn't have.
Or are you trying to assert that crappy applications can only be written for the Windows platform?

Re:Global Financial Collapse (1)

0123456 (636235) | about 8 months ago | (#45982053)

Or are you trying to assert that crappy applications can only be written for the Windows platform?

The kind of people who pick a crappy operating system to run their applications also tend to write crappy applications.

Re:Galactic Financial Collapse (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45982065)

How about Windows for Rocketships?

I think we can all agree that space tourism will be stressful enough without wondering whether the right drivers are installed.

Re:Global Financial Collapse (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45982161)

LOL did anyone else read that as "...Windows for Starships" ?? lol

Re:Global Financial Collapse (1)

westlake (615356) | about 8 months ago | (#45982239)

Actually, that doesn't worry me nearly as much as Windows for Warships.

The USS Yorktown (CG-48) was decommissioned in 2004.

Life goes on.

In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981695)

Microsoft is still struggling to push it's shitty new operating system on customers and only new PCs and chumps have bothered. Many have skipped the 8(.1) bullshit and wait for the next release...

Seriously Microsoft. Get your shit together.

no way (1)

Wormsign (1498995) | about 8 months ago | (#45981771)

you never go ATM! ;)

Done timely/properly/affordably (1)

FuzzNugget (2840687) | about 8 months ago | (#45981791)

They chose the wrong two.

Why XP? (2)

ukoda (537183) | about 8 months ago | (#45981869)

Yes, I am a Windows hating Linux user but the question is serious, not flame bait, why would they chose XP in the first place and why have they not moved to something else in the last decade?

With real cash at stake I would have probably started with a minimal BSD OS and just added the minimal graphics, comms and I/O libraries needed to support the main application. I'm sure others here have their own ideas of the best OS, most excluding Windows?

Re:Why XP? (1)

BlueToast (1224550) | about 8 months ago | (#45982057)

Actually I would look at it from the other end of the spectrum. Real cash at stake? :D Sounds like "$$$ profit!" for some companies to me ;) By design? I don't know *tinfoilhat*

Yes, I am a Windows hating Linux user but the question is serious, not flame bait, why would they chose XP in the first place and why have they not moved to something else in the last decade?

With real cash at stake I would have probably started with a minimal BSD OS and just added the minimal graphics, comms and I/O libraries needed to support the main application. I'm sure others here have their own ideas of the best OS, most excluding Windows?

Re:Why XP? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45982073)

Because that's what supported their existing stock portfolio, their backend systems and it's all the local community college interns knew how to deal with, at the time.

Re:Why XP? (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45982285)

Easy.

Visual Basic 6 support for those all so awesome apps that can down an economy hired by Indians from Craigslist

Windows is a bad idea (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981903)

Various CS students around here target some nearby ATMs to try new hacks/exploits - some even get serious cash out of them...

At least go with something mildly secure that poses a challenge.

Software runs fine now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#45981939)

Didn't businesses keep Windows 3.1 running for years and years?

JP Morgan (3, Interesting)

Nethead (1563) | about 8 months ago | (#45982025)

About two years ago I was a field tech and would get service calls to JPMS. Most of the time it was just to move fax machines around or to make a jack live. Sometimes it was to try to get a PC to boot. There is SO much legacy cruft in the boot image of a JPMS desktop that it can take three boots just to get the damn thing stable. Some of the boot code even flashes by "DOS TCP/IP 1.0" as it goes by. They have decades of cruft to dig through to get those things anywhere modern. I have pity for the admins trying to roll this out, I really do.

On the other hand that damn image is used by hotshot investment brokers to transact multi-million dollar trades everyday. That image is a lot of their "secret sauce" that they use to make a shit load of cash. It's a tool that has made them trillions. I can see why they don't want to fuck with it. They would gladly have me hang around for a day at a few hundred dollars an hour (not that I was seeing 20% of that) just to make sure the hotshot could do his job. The hotshot's downtime cost them thousands of dollars an hour. Imagine having to roll out an image to 1000 hotshot desktops and have it fail for even a day.

That's a lot of incentive to keep the boat from rocking, whatever the cost.

Remember that a lot of that legacy code is interfacing with mainframes that are running code before the advent of PCs.

And in 3 years time to start over!! (1)

Billly Gates (198444) | about 8 months ago | (#45982265)

Windows 7 EOL will start LOL.

That's what you get for waiting until the last minute. Many corps won't see it as a 8 year old OS but a 3 year and will throw hissy fits like the XP ones are now

MSMQ (1)

aviators99 (895782) | about 8 months ago | (#45982329)

I believe MSMQ is used in banking a lot, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is used in ATMs, due to its robustness. AFAIK, there is no *NIX port for it.

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