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Heat Waves In Australia Are Getting More Frequent, and Hotter

Soulskill posted about 9 months ago | from the too-bad-the-cold-last-week-disproved-global-warming dept.

Earth 279

vikingpower writes "In a landmark report on bushfires and climate change (PDF), the Australian Climate Council concludes that heat waves in Australia, as driven by climate change, are becoming more frequent — and that they get hotter. 'It is crucial that communities, emergency services, health services and other authorities prepare for the increasing severity and frequency of extreme fire conditions,' says the Council in the report. Sarah Perkins, one of the report's co-authors, was interviewed by The Guardian Australia. '"While we can't blame climate change for any one event, we can certainly see its fingerprint. This is another link in the chain." Perkins said her latest work had analyzed heatwave trends up to 2013. She said the trend "just gets worse – it's a bit scary really."' In 2009, the United Nations World Meteorological Organization signaled that a Southeast Australian heatwave was the hottest in 100 years."

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Hottest in 100 years = cooling down (1, Troll)

flyingfsck (986395) | about 9 months ago | (#45989467)

Well, hottest in 100 years, means that 100 years ago, it was hotter...

Re:Hottest in 100 years = cooling down (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989577)

Or maybe since the started recording the data 100 years ago.

Re:Hottest in 100 years = cooling down (-1, Flamebait)

Gaygirlie (1657131) | about 9 months ago | (#45989663)

No, it just means the sample period is 100 years.

Re:Hottest in 100 years = cooling down (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989677)

They probably have records that go back 100 years, prior to that, well the Abo's only have stories

Re:Hottest in 100 years = cooling down (0, Troll)

Hognoxious (631665) | about 9 months ago | (#45989817)

All, those commas, mean you, are retard.

Re:Hottest in 100 years = cooling down (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989829)

Well, hottest in 100 years, means that 100 years ago, it was hotter...

Either that or it means that data are only available for 100 years.

You're not the sharpest tool in the box, son.

Re:Hottest in 100 years = cooling down (2)

0123456 (636235) | about 9 months ago | (#45989969)

Either that or it means that data are only available for 100 years.

You're not the sharpest tool in the box, son.

If the data is only available for the last hundred years, how can they claim this is anything unusual? That's about 0.000002% of the life of the planet.

Re:Hottest in 100 years = cooling down (1)

SpankiMonki (3493987) | about 9 months ago | (#45990583)

You're not the sharpest troll in the box, son.

Quick! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989475)

Everyone buy a Nissan Leaf!

Re:Quick! (5, Funny)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about 9 months ago | (#45989823)

I'll buy one, but only if I can act all smug to my friends who still drive gasoline-powered cars, especially hybrids. I'm already practicing saying "Well, I guess driving a hybrid is okayyyy....I mean if you're not ready to go all the way and REALLY help."

Re:Quick! or 160 mpg trucks (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 9 months ago | (#45990531)

They already sell plug-in diesel electric trucks in Canada.

Why are you subsidizing the Middle East?

Re:Quick! or 160 mpg trucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990747)

http://www.viamotors.com/

Built in Utah, bought by Coke, Fed Ex, and UPS among others.

The Lord Humongous! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989501)

Once again, you'll make him unleash his dogs of war as you send your weaklings into the field to to find a rig big enough to haul that fat tank of gas...
 
No more Men at Work... No Midnight Oil...No wonder Australia is going to hell in a hand basket.

Re:The Lord Humongous! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989631)

No more Men at Work... No Midnight Oil...

You forgot the brothers Young. Douchebag.

Re:The Lord Humongous! (3, Interesting)

TWiTfan (2887093) | about 9 months ago | (#45989855)

The Youngs are powered by high voltage electricity, not gas.

Re:The Lord Humongous! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990125)

Once again, you'll make him unleash his dogs of war as you send your weaklings into the field to to find a rig big enough to haul that fat tank of gas...

Obviously bare ass cheeks are the solution.

Pshaw... it's just weather! (0, Flamebait)

CajunArson (465943) | about 9 months ago | (#45989531)

It's not climate change, it's just a random weather pattern.

Oh wait.. you said hot?

Nevermind. Climate change.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (5, Informative)

timeOday (582209) | about 9 months ago | (#45989579)

Didn't finish reading the summary, eh? "'While we can't blame climate change for any one event, we can certainly see its fingerprint." This story is about a trend, not the weather on a given day. A crucial difference.

"The report, which will be released in full in February, finds that climate change is having a key influence on a trend that has seen the number of hot days in Australia double and the duration and frequency of heatwaves increase in the period between 1971 and 2008."

So, yes, it's global warming.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989687)

The USA has broken 1000 record low temps in the last couple of months, but that was just weather when it happened.

You are just confirming that the ridicule the original poster had towards people like you is correct.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989735)

Not only is this the coldest winter in years, but it's not done yet [time.com] ... not by far. This is one for the record books and hopefully will smash that global warming myth back to where it belongs. Hell, I've shoveled about 1 foot of global warming off my driveway in the last week.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

timeOday (582209) | about 9 months ago | (#45989767)

Hell, I've shoveled about 1 foot of global warming off my driveway in the last week.

I'm sorry but you're just hopeless.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

Jeff Flanagan (2981883) | about 9 months ago | (#45990705)

Are you joking, or are you literally as stupid as Bryan Fischer?

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990143)

And in Call we are having record breaking high temps and have gone into emergency drought mode due to the lack of rain.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (5, Informative)

gmuslera (3436) | about 9 months ago | (#45990309)

Had broken it every winter since 1971? Because in australia last year they had to add 2 colors to the temperature charts [tweaktown.com] because how hot things were then, and this year things aren't so far from that, and if 2 years is not enough you have the previous 40 contiguous years where the same trend was there. Thats the difference between long standing climate trends and the weather in a particular season of a limited area. Is the forest the one that matters, not the tree you just stumbled upon. And if you can see the forest because you are not high enough, maybe you should check what the people that can see the whole forest say [nasa.gov] . The cold fact is that the world as a whole is getting hotter.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 9 months ago | (#45990551)

Snow pack in the West is less than one half of typical years.

A cold snap like the East just has used to be far more common.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

Kielistic (1273232) | about 9 months ago | (#45990575)

And that might be a relevant point if the USA were getting record breaking cold winters year after year and not just the one. Also you would have to think that there are no other places in the world besides the USA and Australia.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989711)

So you just said it's not Climate Change but it is Climate Change.

Hiding behind trend vs. weather is cowardly. The story clearly claims the heat waves are caused by Climate Change. They may weasel of of the actual technical claim, but that is what they imply and they is why the article was published.

AGW Freaks, trying to have it both ways.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (2, Insightful)

i kan reed (749298) | about 9 months ago | (#45990021)

Hiding behind trend vs. weather is statistically significant> .

Fixed that there.

I'm sorry, but, if you don't understand basic mechanics of science, you can't be outraged when you don't understand the conclusions of science.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990307)

And you missed the point entirely. No surprise there for a GW Freak.

The point of that article was to link the hot weather to AGW. That's why it was published. That's what they want you to take away from it.

Weasels like you and other GW Freaks stand around and say nothing when people do this and when called on it, hide behind the science and say, "I didn't say that". But you are perfectly happy for people to think it's true. That makes you a sniveling coward and Face Painting Homer for AGW.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 9 months ago | (#45990339)

God, damn, a simple "YHBT" will do.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (2, Insightful)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45989853)

"So, yes, it's global warming."

You are giving us a prime example of exactly what GP wrote.

Sure, AUS is having a heatwave. Even while much of the United States was having a record cold temperatures, and much of Europe has been experiencing its coldest weather in more than 10 years... Arctic ice extent is expanding again and the Antarctic summer is colder than usual, with even more sea ice.

You can't cherry-pick your heatwaves. This is GLOBAL climate we're talking about.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45989927)

And, I should add: all the while, we've been experiencing a weak "El Nino" event. So even with ENSO on the warming side, it has been very cold in much of the world.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (4, Informative)

Dixie_Flatline (5077) | about 9 months ago | (#45990077)

Arctic Ice extent expanding this year is no surprise--most climate scientists predicted that would happen this year. Why? Because it was SO LOW last year, it basically had no direction to go but up.

If you roll snake eyes on your first roll, don't be surprised if your next roll is better.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

PRMan (959735) | about 9 months ago | (#45990257)

Bullcrap. This is absolutely false. If you've watched Deadliest Catch the past 2 seasons they literally went home in the middle of the crab season for a month because the entire Bering Sea was frozen solid. Ships haven't been able to pass through the Hudson Bay area for a couple years now. And it's WORSE this year.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (1)

dkf (304284) | about 9 months ago | (#45990519)

Arctic Ice extent expanding this year is no surprise--most climate scientists predicted that would happen this year. Why?

Most climate scientists would actually predict that ice extent will go up this year because, as every year, we get this thing called Winter. (Or were you referring to the year-on-year minimum or maximum extent?)

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990545)

Climate Scientists haven't predicted anything accurately, ever.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990725)

It's almost like it's impossible for the entire planet to heat up or cool down all at once. Almost like above us there's this large mass of air that moves around and just about never leaves the planet, taking things like temperature and pressure with it. Almost like "record colds in the US" should actually say "Air from Canada is coming down to the U.S. because of how air and pressure works, so don't be surprised if the temperature models Canada at this time of year"

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989641)

Wish I had mod points... so I could mod you troll.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (2, Funny)

PRMan (959735) | about 9 months ago | (#45990205)

Yeah, let's measure "global warming" in the Antarctic. Wait? What's that? The ships got frozen?

Well, we need to prove that the earth is warming up so let's get a rescue ship down there so that the researchers can start proving global warming. What's that? The rescue ship got stuck in the ice?

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (1)

Kielistic (1273232) | about 9 months ago | (#45990643)

Yeah! And last summer they said it was going to be crazy hot but one time I had to put on a sweater! /sarcasm

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (1)

wbr1 (2538558) | about 9 months ago | (#45990375)

Weather patterns are not random. Just as encrypted files are not random data. You may not be able to see the patterns, but they are there, and with enough knowledge and data points you can start to make predictions about it.

Re:Pshaw... it's just weather! (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 9 months ago | (#45990749)

God damn, who is modding this shit up? Like, really? Do you want this terrible argument to be symbolic of your position?

Is it some kind of "I don't understand the difference between measurable long-term trends, and yesterday's weather, and I moderate?"

Climate change is now worldwide (1, Flamebait)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | about 9 months ago | (#45989539)

50 C temps in Australia this decade (40 C temps now).

Halfway up the Rockies in Canada (Kootenays) they are having very very low snowfall - only one meter instead of three meters.

Massive 1000 year floods in Calgary are the new normal.

Get ready for climate change, boys and girls, cause it's coming and China's pushing it as hard as possible by increasing coal plants 6x this next year.

Period.

Re:Climate change is now worldwide (1)

RotateLeftByte (797477) | about 9 months ago | (#45989749)

It does not seem to have stopped raining here in Blighty for about a month.

The climate is changing. We are seeing more and more extremes of Cold, Hot, Wind, Rain, Sun and Snow just to name a few.

Re:Climate change is now worldwide (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989809)

Noticed that there's no snow here in California either. They say we're going to have to import water - maybe we can steal it from Nevada?

Cue the global warming wackos! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989541)

And winters are getting colder in the north. Global warming is a myth, sheeple! Big freaking deal if wind is moving some heat around the globe. It all evens out in the end.

Re:Cue the global warming wackos! (1)

i kan reed (749298) | about 9 months ago | (#45990041)

Please supply your (statistically significant) data.

ahh we're all going to die (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989547)

get the tinfoil hats on, here come the climate changers!!

Re:ahh we're all going to die (5, Insightful)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | about 9 months ago | (#45989673)

get the tinfoil hats on, here come the climate changers!!

I think you'll find the tinfoil hat wearers are those who think that the scientific community are all conspiring to earn big bucks from climate change, although quite how they earn this money is never spelled out. Odd, that. Then the climate-change deniers have no trouble believing the industry-sponsored pseudo-science of the global warming denial industry that actually does have big money behind it from the likes of Exxon of Exxon Valdez fame. Yeah, you have no trouble believing the polluters, do you?

Get a fucking grip. The scientific consensus is that anthropogenic global warming is a fact. Out of thousands of peer-reviewed papers you'd be doing well if you can find one single paper that says otherwise.

Re:ahh we're all going to die (1, Insightful)

csumpi (2258986) | about 9 months ago | (#45989845)

to earn big bucks from climate change, although quite how they earn this money is never spelled out

Climate Change Is the Next $10 Trillion Opportunity [yahoo.com]

While I'm not debating that the climate is changing, let's also not pretend that this is not all about $$$.

.

Re:ahh we're all going to die (5, Informative)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | about 9 months ago | (#45990019)

to earn big bucks from climate change, although quite how they earn this money is never spelled out

Climate Change Is the Next $10 Trillion Opportunity [yahoo.com]

While I'm not debating that the climate is changing, let's also not pretend that this is not all about $$$. .

The article you have linked shows that there are business opportunities created as a result of dealing with climate change. It does not show how climate scientists benefit from the results of their studies going one way or the other, as is often alleged by climate change deniers.

Where's the money? (1, Insightful)

King_TJ (85913) | about 9 months ago | (#45990361)

While I don't even consider myself among the "deniers" ... I think you have to be going around with a big, thick blindfold on, if you really believe the "pro climate change" researchers aren't getting some money out of it.

The federal government wants to push climate change as its platform to encourage all sorts of initiatives, and to do so, it needs the backing of numerous scientific studies. Most researchers sustain themselves largely based on government grants. Even NASA has been a big climate change proponent in recent years, vs. focusing on the space travel projects we traditionally associate with it. Why do you think THAT is? All the funding cutbacks in space exploration mean they need to find something else to do that IS funded, or else they vanish.

Re:Where's the money? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990533)

Even NASA has been a big climate change proponent in recent years, vs. focusing on the space travel projects we traditionally associate with it. Why do you think THAT is? All the funding cutbacks in space exploration mean they need to find something else to do that IS funded, or else they vanish.

You just hit on why so many reasonably intelligent people believe AGW without question. Hero worship. NASA was the great place for great scientists. NASA broke through the sky and went so far as to get frail squishy humans safely off to the moon and safely back to this wet rock. So many had dreams of either being an astronaut or being part of the ground control that supports them.
It's hard enough to accept that manned missions have been turned over to Russia, so whatever NASA is doing now must be even bigger, right? Well, NASA is being gutted, and one of the few things people can point to is this one guy who has total control of the global temperature dataset...

Re:ahh we're all going to die (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990027)

That article was not written by a scientist. It was written by an entrepreneur trying to sell green energy. Money works on both sides.

Re:ahh we're all going to die (2, Insightful)

Dixie_Flatline (5077) | about 9 months ago | (#45990095)

Great! Maybe we can get the crazy deniers to realise that the economy won't implode if we spend money on something other than oil subsidies.

$10 trillion worth of jobs? Why isn't everyone piling into that bandwagon?

Re:ahh we're all going to die (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 9 months ago | (#45990543)

While I'm not debating that the climate is changing, let's also not pretend that this is not all about $$$.

When the Maldives or New Orleans is underwater, in part because of climate change, people die needlessly. When the heat makes formerly arable land into desert, people starve. When formerly great sources of water dry up, people dehydrate and die.

So it's not all about money. It's partially about money: It's expensive to actually do something significant about climate change, and easier for the people in power to simply let the people without power die than it is to pay for fixing the problem.

Re:ahh we're all going to die (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989865)

All the HAARP antenna arrays and ionospheric heaters around the world can't be making life better for us idiots on earth. Shut those goddamned stations down and watch the weather return to normal.

Re:ahh we're all going to die (2)

ApplePy (2703131) | about 9 months ago | (#45990055)

those who think that the scientific community are all conspiring to earn big bucks from climate change,

Misdirection. Scientists are not the ones looking to cash in -- they are being used by those who are looking to cash in, which is big business.

although quite how they earn this money is never spelled out.

Easy. Just look at where Al Gore invests his money. Hopefully I don't have to spell out how to find that information.

The scientific consensus is that anthropogenic global warming is a fact.

Things, whether they are in fact true or false, do not become true just because sufficient percentages of people believe them.

The consensus in Wisconsin might be that the Packers are the best football team, but that doesn't make it fact. It would simply mean that the majority prefer to remain delusional, rather than change their long-held beliefs.

That is not to suggest that ManBearPig is not real, but it takes more "6 out of 10 scientists believe ManBearPig is real and will kill everyone" to convince the rational mind.

Re:ahh we're all going to die (2)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | about 9 months ago | (#45990225)

The consensus in Wisconsin might be that the Packers are the best football team, but that doesn't make it fact. It would simply mean that the majority prefer to remain delusional, rather than change their long-held beliefs.

Your ability to compare peer reviewed scientific papers to loyalty to sports teams is noted.

That is not to suggest that ManBearPig is not real, but it takes more "6 out of 10 scientists believe ManBearPig is real and will kill everyone" to convince the rational mind.

It's a bit more than 6 out of 10. It's more like 13,926 out of 13,950. And it's not about "belief." It's about reaching a conclusion after rigorous research.

Re:ahh we're all going to die (1)

Spy Handler (822350) | about 9 months ago | (#45990109)

If you were trying to make money from climate research and looked around to see which side would bring the most bucks, you would come to the conclusion that the global warmist side has the most to offer.

The grants from government and government-like bodies are in the billions. Oil companies don't spend billions trying to disprove global warming despite what you may think. They can't, it would raise too many alarm bells and draw shareholder ire besides. Last figure I saw was $23 million [joannenova.com.au] ... a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the money spent trying to prove global warming.

well the good news. (3, Funny)

nimbius (983462) | about 9 months ago | (#45989565)

given their natural habitat and evolutionary traits, this means its only a matter of time until those ferocious Drop Bears go extinct. the bad news of course is that we can no longer use the drop bear as an excuse for americans to choose New Zealand as their holiday destination.
Granted its also important to note that should americans agree to reduce their carbon footprint and sign the damn kyoto treaty, we wont have to resort to shipping drop bears to safer climates in the states.

If you can't take the heat, (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45989595)

stop living in the desert.

Re:If you can't take the heat, (4, Interesting)

fiannaFailMan (702447) | about 9 months ago | (#45989685)

stop living in the desert.

What if the desert comes to you?

Re:If you can't take the heat, (1)

dkf (304284) | about 9 months ago | (#45990553)

stop living in the desert.

What if the desert comes to you?

Then it's your chance to become an economic migrant. Whee!

The sun is the cause! (1)

unixcorn (120825) | about 9 months ago | (#45989643)

I can see the fingerprint of global warming in the sky every day.

I love a sunburnt country (1)

neilo_1701D (2765337) | about 9 months ago | (#45989647)

I love a sunburnt country,
A land of sweeping plains,
Of ragged mountain ranges,
Of droughts and flooding rains.
I love her far horizons,
I love her jewel-sea,
Her beauty and her terror -
The wide brown land for me!

Dorothea Mackellar, 1904

Yup; Australia has never been hotter / dryer / ...

Re:I love a sunburnt country (1)

Carnivore (103106) | about 9 months ago | (#45989837)

So you're attempting to refute data with a poem?

Re:I love a sunburnt country (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990191)

Look, all we're saying is that while climate change science is haaaaard and depreeeeeessing and implies we should do things that don't feed our bottomless lust for primal pleasure in the form of driving around very loud surrogate manhoods, climate change denial is as easy as this simple quiz:

Is it way too warm in the summer? It's SUPPOSED to be warm in the summer, you dolt!
Is it way too cold in the summer? Yeah, isn't it great? It's not warm in the summer! This makes me feel so much better today!
Is it way too warm in the winter? Yeah, isn't it great? It's not cold in the winter! This makes me feel so much better today!
Is it way too cold in the winter? GLOBAL WARMING DISPROVED SO SUCK IT AL GORE WHO INVENTED GLOBAL WARMING

So since our big brains aren't wasting all our thinkin' time on all that nasty science, we're free to pursue better goals, like reciting poems to laugh at you science losers for being dumb and boring. See? You're supposed to be smart on this website, so why haven't you made the obviously better choice and joined us?

A Third Possibility (2, Funny)

DruidWheresMyCar (3493635) | about 9 months ago | (#45989657)

It's possible that both the AGW deniers and AGW alarmists are wrong. Climate change could be real, but caused by natural factors that are out of our control, the same ones that have caused ice ages and warm periods in the past when carbon outputs were nowhere near as high as they are now. But that theory would cause people to stop paying their taxes and mortgages and move to the tropics, so we can't have that.

Re:A Third Possibility (2)

thephydes (727739) | about 9 months ago | (#45989849)

Yes you are correct, it is a possible scenario. However, real scientists look for real evidence that links correlation to causation. When we know that CO2 and others are greenhouse gasses (look that up if you're not sure what it means), AND we know that we have been pumping these gasses into the atmosphere at an ever increasing rate, AND we know that the earth has warmed, AND we are seeing some of the predicted effects eg extreme weather events, THEN the evidence matches the theory that we are a primary cause of global warming. Of course you could still be right and this is all down to natural variability..........

Re:A Third Possibility (1)

DruidWheresMyCar (3493635) | about 9 months ago | (#45990043)

If you don't want to seem condescending going forward, you can safely assume that anyone who specifically uses the term AGW instead of global warming or climate change knows everything you said in your reply.

Re:A Third Possibility (0)

PRMan (959735) | about 9 months ago | (#45990323)

Most of the "real" scientists I've seen seem to concentrate exclusively on the last 100 years and ignore completely that 10x worse things have happened all throughout the earth's history.

Re:A Third Possibility (5, Interesting)

Carnivore (103106) | about 9 months ago | (#45989953)

There is a nonzero chance that your third possibility is correct. But nonzero is all I'm going to give you. Have a look at the amounts of greenhouse gasses put into the atmosphere by a large natural phenomenon, vulcanism [usgs.gov]

Looks like the numbers are from 2009 or so. Summary: It takes ~3 days of humans' output to equal one year of volcanic greenhouse gas emissions.

The factors that are out of our control contribute a tiny fraction of our total.

Re:A Third Possibility (5, Insightful)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45990003)

"It's possible that both the AGW deniers and AGW alarmists are wrong. Climate change could be real, but caused by natural factors that are out of our control, the same ones that have caused ice ages and warm periods in the past when carbon outputs were nowhere near as high as they are now."

The problem with this is that it is exactly what many of those so-called AGW "deniers" have been saying all along.

Re:A Third Possibility (1)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 9 months ago | (#45990131)

The problem with this is that it is exactly what many of those so-called AGW "deniers" have been saying all along.

Well, to be fair, the AGW deniers said that only after it was repeatedly demonstrated that there was in fact some variety of global warming going on. This is the "The barge is headed towards the bridge abutment, but that's not the fault of the engines, it's the current instead." argument. Which doesn't make much sense, because even in that situation, you still want to do everything you can to solve the problem.

Re:A Third Possibility (1)

Jane Q. Public (1010737) | about 9 months ago | (#45990373)

"Well, to be fair, the AGW deniers said that only after it was repeatedly demonstrated that there was in fact some variety of global warming going on."

That's not "being fair", that's being false. Part of my point was that it's not legitimate to lump everyone who disagrees into one "denier" category. That's about as accurate as saying all blacks are criminals or all Polish people are stupid.

Some of those who disagree did so from the very beginning, on the premise that it's the Sun and other natural factors that drives climate change, not CO2. Just a fact.

Re:A Third Possibility (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990007)

It's also possible your mom's not a whore, but we know better.

Re:A Third Possibility (0)

0123456 (636235) | about 9 months ago | (#45990035)

The only people claiming climate doesn't change naturally are the Hockey-Stickers with their nice flat temperature line until EVIL SUVs came along and ruined everything.

The rest of the world is well aware that things don't actually stay the same all the time.

Re:A Third Possibility (0)

PRMan (959735) | about 9 months ago | (#45990293)

This is what almost every "denier" I know has already been saying. It's not that the climate doesn't change radically, it's that we are a very small percentage of the problem (other than cutting down forests or planting, IMO).

Yet another possibility (0, Flamebait)

EmagGeek (574360) | about 9 months ago | (#45989721)

An organization that derives its funding from the sense of crisis in their reports finds that the situation is quite alarming.

Localized Global Warming? (1)

Koby77 (992785) | about 9 months ago | (#45989761)

The report recommends cutting emissions to control the weather. As if their lower carbon air will somehow hover only over Australia to keep temperatures down, while China and the other high polluters in Southeast Asia will hold in the heat. If only Australia can experience man-made global warming despite no global temperature increase in the past 10 years, surely they can cool off via the same mechanism as well!

Re:Localized Global Warming? (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about 9 months ago | (#45989947)

No global temperature increase in 10 years?

I call bullshit.

http://library.wmo.int/pmb_ged/wmo_1119_en.pdf [wmo.int]

Re:Localized Global Warming? (1, Funny)

PRMan (959735) | about 9 months ago | (#45990345)

It's already been proven that the global average temperature has dropped for about 15 years now.

Taxes! (0, Offtopic)

csumpi (2258986) | about 9 months ago | (#45989781)

But don't you worry, it can all be fixed with more spending (taxes), and as long as you don't vote for those other guys.

.

Re:Taxes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990269)

So therefore we should do nothing because gods forbid we spend money to avert a catastrophe.

Fuckwit.

Re:Taxes! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990423)

But don't you worry, it can all be fixed with more spending (taxes), and as long as you don't vote for those other guys. .

Current Australian government is conservative; previous government created a carbon tax and then fell out of office at the election.

Your ignorance is astounding.

And it will continue until ALL nations work on it (4, Informative)

WindBourne (631190) | about 9 months ago | (#45989957)

Look, the west is working on lowering their emissions.
However, China alone emits over 1/3 of all CO2 emissions. Worse, by 2020, they will account for over 1/2 assuming that no other nation lowers theirs (and if other nations lower theirs, then it will probably be around 2017). In addition, the rest of BRICS are busy increasing their emissions.
And with kyoto and other nations trying to tie emissions to individuals, rather than to GDP, this will continue to happen. The only way to stop this is to have ALL NATIONS lower their emissions at the same time. In addition, it needs to be tied to GDP, rather than per capitia. Finally, it needs to be based on empirical data, not SWAGs.
And the only way to make sure that ALL nations work on bringing emissions down is for nations to tax all consumed goods, local and imported, with a tax based on where the good and its parts come from. In addition, ideally, it would include something for the transportation of the item.

Until that point, emissions WILL rise faster.

Re:And it will continue until ALL nations work on (1)

snowsnoot (3389789) | about 9 months ago | (#45990169)

China alone emits over 1/3 of all CO2 emissions.

Agreed, the concept of a nation is irrelevant when it comes to global issues. However, I would be the first to defend the Chinese and the rest who are simply being outsourced by the West to create all our junk. Its still OUR pollution, just because they are the ones getting paid to do it doesn't make it their fault. This is CONSUMER pollution, mostly driven by CAPITALISM. Fix the two problems in caps and our problem will be resolved, in a few thousand years (when the climate goes back to normal).

Re:And it will continue until ALL nations work on (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990497)

> Its still OUR pollution

Exactly. The CONservatives in the USA control and rule over China. They have complete control so they bear complete responsibility for all of the pollution in China since they're the ones that control the government of China which controls the people of China. The type of government China has now is the Randesque style that they pray to their invisible man in the sky to bring to the USA.

Re:And it will continue until ALL nations work on (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990485)

They are working on it. We are digging up coal, oil and gas at faster rate than any time in history. And thanks opposition to clean, baseload like nuclear, this trend is just going to continue until we either turn Earth to Venus, or we run out of stuff to dig up.

http://www.worldcoal.org/resources/coal-statistics/ [worldcoal.org]

Coal provides around 30% of global primary energy needs, generates 41% of the world's electricity and is used in the production of 70% of the world's steel.

Total Global Coal Production

        * 7831Mt (2012e)
        * 7608Mt (2011)
        * 4677 (1990)

Almost doubled since end of Cold War.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Global_Carbon_Emissions.svg [wikipedia.org]

Now, everyone say thank you to Greenpeace for fucking up the future for thousands of years with their opposition to nuclear power. Part of the carbon problem is squarely on their shoulders.

Re:And it will continue until ALL nations work on (1)

gmuslera (3436) | about 9 months ago | (#45990677)

Is not just CO2, there are more greenhouse gases and other affecting factors like i.e. deforestation. Check this map [io9.com] on countries contributing to climate change. The elephant in the room is US, comfortably first with 0.151C, then comes far China with 0.063 and Russia with 0.059.

But...winter! (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990059)

But it's cold in North America during the winter! That means that climate change isn't happening!

WHAT DO YOU MEAN OTHER PLACES HAVE DIFFERENT WEATHER??

Has anyone told Rush Limbaugh that places other than the USA exist yet? Maybe the shock will kill him and he'll stop promulgating all his climate lies.

Fact (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990183)

The climate is changing precipitously and will continue to accelerate until there is are global level population collapse and/or human extinction, which may eventually solve the issue. There is nothing we will likely be able to do about this due to our social and economic structures and inertia. We can engineer the problem but is just hubris to imagine that engineering will provide a solution.

"While we can't blame climate change" - LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990237)

Which they want you to take as meaning "While we can't blame catastrophic man-made global warming"...

Gee... I wonder why they used the laughable, catch-all term 'climate change'. I wonder why they stopped using the term 'catastrophic man-made global warming'...

Could it possibly be because, like almost ALL 'scientists' nowadays, they are a bunch of fraudsters, whose jobs depend on coming up with more and more scare stories?

www.climatedepot.com

Isn't it (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#45990297)

Climate change is just a change in climate. so if its hitting hotter or colder, its climate change.... Is the council not sure if the temp is changing? Dose the council even know what they are talking about? Or do they mean global warming or man-made global warming? all 3 are different. climate change happens constantly, global warming is a natural cycle. man-made global warming has never been proven yet.

Precipitation seems to have moved north (4, Informative)

mc6809e (214243) | about 9 months ago | (#45990661)

Interior Australia seems to be suffering a terrible drought while Northern Australia is being inundated.

Australia: Percent of Normal Precipitation [noaa.gov]

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