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Tesla Wins One Over Chinese Trademark Troll

timothy posted about 7 months ago | from the where's-my-good-enough-tesla-clone? dept.

China 103

cartechboy writes "The Tesla Model S went on sale in China this week, at a price of $121,000--which is the same $79,900 price as in the U.S. plus a whole bunch of other costs tacked on, mostly the customs duty China uses to protect its own auto industry and a stiff value-added tax. But that's not the big news. Lost in the announcement was the news that Tesla got its brand name back from a Chinese trademark troll who'd registered it in 2006, even before the very first electric Roadster was sold in the States. So now the company's stores can carry the name "Te Si La," which is the Chinese transliteration most familiar to consumers in that country. Score one more for Tesla Motors."

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So how is this a win (0, Flamebait)

fermion (181285) | about 7 months ago | (#46063363)

Tesla was not competent enough to register the trademark in all markets it was going to do business, and someone else did. Rather than working out some medication where Tesla paid for the lack of foresight, it was simply taken away. I don't think that the ruling was wrong, obviously China does not value the free market the way the US does, but there should have a happy middle between millions of dollars and something reasonable to pay.

Re:So how is this a win (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46063423)

Trademarks exist to ensure that consumers know the source of the goods they buy. If you aren't selling the public something using the name, then you can't tie up the name merely by registering a trademark and sitting around (as this guy seems to have done.) There was no need for Tesla to bargain, because there was no segment of the vehicle buying public that would be confused by Tesla selling the vehicles under their own name.

Re:So how is this a win (4, Informative)

Ecuador (740021) | about 7 months ago | (#46063443)

Eh, are you serious? You can't just trademark the names of products that are not yours in countries where they have not yet applied just to blackmail the company. If you have a legitimate product and you are the first to register that name for it, it is all good and they will have to pay you to get it back. But this guy just registered the name and made a fake "Tesla Motors China" website, complete with the Tesla logo and a car he had no relation to, then asked for millions.

Re:So how is this a win (4, Insightful)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 7 months ago | (#46063959)

Sure you can. You don't know Chinese law. Just another ignorant foreigner who thinks he can breeze into China and things will be just like they are back home. Nine times out of ten when you hear the "China screwed me" story it means "I couldn't be bothered to learn anything about local laws and just assumed I could do whatever I wanted." China has laws, but you have to use them, and most people don't bother to learn. Check chinalawblog.com [chinalawblog.com] for endless stories on this topic.

Re:So how is this a win (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about 7 months ago | (#46064085)

Pretty much. That goes for any country. But in China at least, knowing the right people in the CCP can get you far. But, unless you know some extremely powerful people, that kind of pull only works for small to medium business. Companies that are already heavily international or have deep pockets do tend to catch the eye of the diplomates. At that level, international politics can come into play. You don't hear about it in the news, but you can be sure there's a few phone calls that happen behind the scenes. You won't get that kind of support for your own piss-ant LLC, but you will if you're somebody like Google or Apple.

Re:So how is this a win (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 7 months ago | (#46064663)

Oh gimme a fucking break. "Unless you know the right people in the CCP" is a load of horseshit. I know a bunch of commies, and most of them can't do anything for you. They have a narrow focus and even in their own offices they can't do anything if it's someone else's department.

Re:So how is this a win (1)

cusco (717999) | about 7 months ago | (#46064701)

Good grief, you sound like some small-town businessman who thinks he can get a Pentagon contract because he "knows a bunch of people in Washington". Random paper pushers can't do shit for you, heads of governmental departments can get shit done. You're right that "most of them can't do anything for you", there's a difference between between most people and the "right people".

Re:So how is this a win (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 7 months ago | (#46065011)

I'm talking about Communist China, not Washington, and you're arguing my point not disagreeing.

Re:So how is this a win (1)

Firethorn (177587) | about 7 months ago | (#46065177)

Reading through this thread, you're guilty of it too. GP said "right people in the CCP" and specified "extremely powerful people". Odds are that YOU don't know any of these 'extremely powerful people', even though you know a 'bunch of commies'. You know paper pushers, not movers&shakers as Cusco mentioned.

And there's probably more similarities between the rulers of Communist China and 'Washington' than with common people. Elan Musk probably promised the prospect of a space rocket ride(or a little assistance with the Chinese space program), or even just a car to the *RIGHT* person, who then arranged for the patent troll(who's probably peon level) to get slapped down.

Re:So how is this a win (2)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 7 months ago | (#46065845)

I know a bunch of vice-directors and directors, as well as the office folk. Nobody knows the extremely powerful people, sighting them is like sighting Bigfoot. They're never out.

Elon Musk didn't bribe anyone, there's perfectly good legal avenues available. When you bribe an official, you can't stop once you've started. It's a poor business decision. If you depend on him to do business, eventually he will retire or go to jail and you're screwed.

"One of the things I have always found troubling about Westerners doing business in emerging market countries is that they sometimes take an almost perverse pride in discussing payoffs to government officials. It is as though their having paid a bribe is a symbol of their international sophistication and insider knowledge. Yet, countless times when I am told of the bribe, I know the very same thing could almost certainly have been accomplished without a bribe."
--Dan Harris, chinalawblog.com

Re:So how is this a win (1)

DigiShaman (671371) | about 7 months ago | (#46065199)

Like I said, "knowing extremely powerful people". You do realize that most (if not all) major industries and the companies that run them are state sponsored right? Therefore, they answer directly to the CCP. It's corrupt as hell. Even high ranking officials can get you arrested for any excuse. The law only applies when someone of higher political stature says so. Equality is nonexistent in that country. The whole system is a fucking joke!

Re:So how is this a win (2)

dk20 (914954) | about 7 months ago | (#46065793)

Lets try this and see how it works...

But in [Insert country here] at least, knowing the right people in the [ruling party of that country] can get you far.

Now can someone list a country where this is not the case?
Every second day there are stories about the XXAA passing favourable laws, and now we want to pretend this is a "china thing" as its convenient?

Re:So how is this a win (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 7 months ago | (#46065653)

Sure you can. You don't know Chinese law. Just another ignorant foreigner who thinks he can breeze into China and things will be just like they are back home. Nine times out of ten when you hear the "China screwed me" story it means

...that China has bullshit, protectionist laws which permit them to screw people. The nature doesn't differentiate them from other nations, only the scope.

Re:So how is this a win (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46065669)

So why did the Chinese court side with Tesla?

Re:So how is this a win (4, Insightful)

erice (13380) | about 7 months ago | (#46063447)

Tesla was not competent enough to register the trademark in all markets it was going to do business, and someone else did. Rather than working out some medication where Tesla paid for the lack of foresight, it was simply taken away. I don't think that the ruling was wrong, obviously China does not value the free market the way the US does, but there should have a happy middle between millions of dollars and something reasonable to pay.

The only reasonable value to pay to a troll is zero. Actually, no. The correct amount is that the troll pays the victim for their trouble and legal fees. A reasonable compromise is zero. The company in question was 100% troll. They were not doing business under that name. They had no intention of doing business under the Tesla name. This is true regardless of whether Tesla was "competent" enough to defensively register its name in all markets before it had product to sell just in case a troll an idea how to make some easy, unearned money.

A troll is a troll. (1)

Frosty Piss (770223) | about 7 months ago | (#46063705)

And you are OK with Patent Trolls as well? Because it's the same mindset that drives both these "business models" - gain control of something you have no intention of using yourself except to extort money from some company that has a fat wallet.

Classy.

The reason why Musk won this, (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 7 months ago | (#46064145)

is because the Chinese claimed that it was a Chinese Tesla Motor Car. IOW, he was a pure troll, nothing more. Now, had he been off developing something totally none-related, he likely would have stood a chance. But when you are a a troll, even China will sometimes strick you down.

Re:So how is this a win (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46066369)

Medication? We're talking about cars here.

More for show than environment (2, Interesting)

SydShamino (547793) | about 7 months ago | (#46063405)

As mentioned in the article, most buyers in China will get this more for show than for the environment. At least in the U.S. when trolls call electric cars pointless, I can point to the 100% wind power on my electric bill and be smug about it, or at least point out that big industrial power plants in the countryside can scrub and dilute their exhaust more efficiently than thousands of cars crammed in a little city, but in China I think the power plants right now are probably just as bad.

I do find it strange that the article mentions China incentivizing electric vehicles to reduce smog, while also pointing out the huge import duties Tesla has to pay. Given how cheap almost everything made in China is here, I didn't realize that they could tax our exports of anything that highly.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

HornWumpus (783565) | about 7 months ago | (#46063625)

Trade rules with China were negotiated in the context of the cold war.

To the extent that Nixon achieved a trade war verses a cold war it's a success. China's middle class is growing faster then America's is shrinking. American manufacturing is lean and mean, but still struggling against cheap Chinese labor.

The peg is why we print so much money. When it moves to a market rate, everything changes.

Re:More for show than environment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46063631)

... but in China I think the power plants right now are probably just as bad.

Yes, cause Wind power in China [wikipedia.org] is completely impossible, right?

Re:More for show than environment (3, Informative)

WindBourne (631190) | about 7 months ago | (#46064177)

no, because coal without pollution control, accounts for 80% of China's electricity. In fact, it has been at 80% for 20 years. More importantly, Chinese plans call for Coal plants, OR coal=>methane (dumping CO2 into the air) => burned in a plant, to remain at 80% over the next 20 years. Worst of all, they expect to DOUBLE what they currently do. For 2013, they are at 33% of the world's emissions. By 2017, they were expected to be close to 1/2. Now, with Germany and Japan killing their nukes, and re-starting coal, that might not be the case.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

Xenna (37238) | about 7 months ago | (#46064795)

Well, as far as eco-bookkeeping goes they'll probably be able to point to their electric bill and prove they use only hydro-electric from, say, the three gorges dam..

Same way I only use atomic electricity in my Ampera (aka Volt). Thankfully when everyone's killed their nukes the electricity will still keep flowing. I suspect my billl will look a little different though...

Re:More for show than environment (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 7 months ago | (#46066775)

yeah, I always have to laugh when ppl speak of using clean hydro, etc. while ignoring the fact that USA has 3 grids. IOW, I get part of my electrons from washington and idaho, even though I live in Colorado. A small number, but still there.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 7 months ago | (#46065427)

According to this report by the EESI [eesi.org] coal accounted for 65% of China's electricity production back in 2012, although it doesn't say what proportion of that is so-called "clean coal".

Re:More for show than environment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46066811)

The same group says it was a pretty large chunk of US production as well.

Fossil fuels generate most U.S. electricity
In 2012, coal was used for about 37% of the 4 trillion killowatthours of electricity generated in the United States.

Considering the vast population size difference (300MM Americans and 1.3BLN Chinese) the US still demants more then its fair share of energy consumption even after exporting the pollution-heavy manufacturing to China.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 7 months ago | (#46066847)

BTW, that is not 65% of China's production, That is China claiming that 65% of their capability is coal. I am guessing that they are probably lying about their stated numbers of wind and solar, which is why Coal makes up so much.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

SydShamino (547793) | about 7 months ago | (#46064309)

How did what you post refute what I posted?

Re:More for show than environment (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 7 months ago | (#46063953)

Given how cheap almost everything made in China is here, I didn't realize that they could tax our exports of anything that highly.

Many countries have enormous import taxes on foreign cars, sometimes going up with engine size.
And then Luxury cars always have extra taxes added on, even in the USA.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 7 months ago | (#46064197)

Nope. Not in the USA we don't.

Re:More for show than environment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46065087)

You have low tarrifs, except where you have tarrifs just as high as the Chinese. Pickups for example.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 7 months ago | (#46065425)

CAFE put in place with collusion between the Big-3 and Congress to harm Mercedes and BMW who didn't sell any small cars at the time? No, that doesn't count. Import duties on pickups designed to guarantee the F-150, Chevy C1500 (silverado) and Dodge Ram stay the top-3 selling pickups? And the US had a luxury tax passed by Bush (1990) and repealed by Clinton (93), but it didn't last long.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 7 months ago | (#46066891)

Actually, I just read up on the tariffs on trucks. Did not realize that we had that. However, it was passed in the 60 and was retaliation for Europe barring our Chicken exports to them. Still, we are apparently talking about ending those. In addition, all other vehicles are subject to 2% tariffs, nothing more.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

AK Marc (707885) | about 7 months ago | (#46067437)

They worked. The "Big-3" still includes Chrysler. But last I saw, Toyota makes more cars in the US than Chrysler, and Chrysler is foreign-owned. One American maker down, one foreign maker so entrenched as to be an American maker now. More Toyotas are made outside Japan than in, and more Toyotas are sold in North America than in Japan. When do we get to call it a US maker? (I'm not being deliberately obtuse with my wording, it's just that's what I found for the numbers - I couldn't find the production numbers for Toyota by country, nor sales by country, just some regional aggregates)

Re:More for show than environment (1)

dk20 (914954) | about 7 months ago | (#46065809)

Please...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... [wikipedia.org]
"As of November 2010, the 1963 tariff of 25% still affects importation of light trucks."

http://www.tirebusiness.com/ar... [tirebusiness.com]
"Imports of car tires from China doubled in October and November 2012 vs. the same period in 2011, the first full months after the elevated U.S. import tariffs on such tires expired on Sept. 27."

The US has a very long history of slapping large tariffs to support its domestic market (just like every other country).

Re:More for show than environment (1)

WindBourne (631190) | about 7 months ago | (#46064155)

China has one of the highest tariffs in the world. Technically, per the CLinton deal, along with WTO, it is not supposed to be the case. But, they have ignored all of the treaties and run up massive tariffs. Then grip if USA is about to do one.

Re:More for show than environment (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46064603)

Hey WindBourne, did Elon's condom leaked in your ass again?
I thought you might chill out briefly now that the Chicoms are letting your bugger's overpriced piece of shit into the world's largest automobile market.
Demonizing your new customers isn't likely to be helpful promoting sales.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

dk20 (914954) | about 7 months ago | (#46065815)

Simple, don't sell your products there?

Seems easier then trying to force your will on them right?

Re:More for show than environment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46064167)

The US has import duty on foreign cars too. Those things are usually reciprocal. That is why Japanese and Euro cars for the US market are often "made" in NAFTA countries.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 7 months ago | (#46065331)

whats stopping them from setting their own import tax rate?

Re:More for show than environment (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 7 months ago | (#46065417)

Couldn't find any up to date stats but Wikipedia [wikipedia.org] says that China was generating 17% renewable energy back in 2007. China has more wind power than any other country on earth, and is aiming for generating 190,000 MWh in 2015. They have more wind power than nuclear, in fact.

If you are into that sort of thing they are building new nuclear too, which does at least have low emissions when operating correctly. China's is making a lot of progress with clean energy, it's just that they started from such a bad position and have such large and rapidly growing demand.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

Njovich (553857) | about 7 months ago | (#46065507)

Most Tesla buyers in Europe and the US also get it more for show than the environment.

IMHO that's a good thing, you now have some people getting a Nissan Leaf because it makes economic sense in some situations, and some people get a Tesla because a Tesla is an awesome car. Electric cars are not just about the environment anymore, and that in the end will help the environment.

(I'm not saying nobody gets a Tesla for the environment, but despite what people may say it's for, lets be honest, usually it isn't really)

Re:More for show than environment (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 7 months ago | (#46065641)

At least in the U.S. when trolls call electric cars pointless, I can point to the 100% wind power on my electric bill and be smug about it, or at least point out that big industrial power plants in the countryside can scrub and dilute their exhaust more efficiently than thousands of cars crammed in a little city, but in China I think the power plants right now are probably just as bad.

The dirty secret is that every power plant in the USA is probably over its emissions targets. I know a guy who used to climb stacks for a living for the government. Literally everything he ever sampled was above legal limits. Everything. Don't get all smug about American pollution controls, they are not as strong as you think. China has all that pollution not just because of weaker pollution controls, but because they're doing our manufacturing.

I do find it strange that the article mentions China incentivizing electric vehicles to reduce smog, while also pointing out the huge import duties Tesla has to pay.

That's not strange or even interesting. China is actually assisting Chinese makers of EVs, because they want a piece of the EV market. It's obvious they don't give a fuck about smog, or they'd do something about it.

Re:More for show than environment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46065853)

China is actually assisting Chinese makers of EVs, because they want a piece of the EV market.

Not to nitpick, but at the moment there isn't much of an EV market. And by all the accounts I've read, the Chinese government is actually concerned about the smog because it is becoming a drag on the economy (via health costs, lost productivity, etc), and also (perhaps more importantly) it is a loss of face. They totally hate losing face.

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 7 months ago | (#46066107)

Not to nitpick, but at the moment there isn't much of an EV market.

That's okay, because at the moment the Chinese aren't much good at making cars. By the time there's an EV market, they may have it sorted out well enough to sell some.

And by all the accounts I've read, the Chinese government is actually concerned about the smog because it is becoming a drag on the economy (via health costs, lost productivity, etc), and also (perhaps more importantly) it is a loss of face. They totally hate losing face.

Perhaps then they should do something substantive about it. Executing people makes for good headlines, but it doesn't clean up the air.

Re:More for show than environment (1)

dk20 (914954) | about 7 months ago | (#46066829)

Your last trip to China must have been at least a decade ago. While it was a few years since i was there last the growing trend was towards electric bikes (scooters, etc).

Troll- you mean 'pay for play' justice (0, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46063409)

In China, money talks, and the peasants have ZERO power or say over their own lives. China isn't South America, where national pride will occasionally give victory to local individuals over US giants.

So, the Chinese authorities will happily CRUSH the legal rights of any lesser Chinese individual, if that person stands between a large pay-off to Chinese elites, and the US company that is willing to write those cheques. And sadly, by and large, the Chinese sheeple go along with these abuses, in the name of growing economic prosperity.

May I suggest you Google the deeply sickening abuses that Chinese couples suffered when they wished to marry, because the state claimed complete rights over their bodies, and therefore insisted on the most humiliating and invasive physical and psychological 'inspections' of individuals before they were granted the right to marry. These evil compulsory inspections (actually state mandated 'rape', which is the correct description of all forced intimate examinations) have been suspended for the time being, but many powerful members of the Chinese elite are insisting they are re-instated.

Re:Troll- you mean 'pay for play' justice (1)

Kojiro Ganryu Sasaki (895364) | about 7 months ago | (#46067725)

Source please.

Uh Oh (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46063429)

The Jew Timothy has received his orders from Feinstein, and they aren't pretty: Projecting on social media that China is bad, so let's plant the seed that Americans are killing their sons and daughters for us but it's actually about China, Snowden is a traitor, and conincidentally we prevented an attack on on your Israeli embassy while disregarding bombings on your own soil. [theguardian.com]

America's best ally, indeed.

-- Ethanol-fueleed

Re:Uh Oh (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46063549)

Wow, you have alway been a dick on slashdot but this overt anti-semitism is a new low. Or I guess it's probably not, I'm just lucky enough not to have seen most of your other posts.

Still sell "carbon credits" to California (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46063451)

Carbon credits. Tesla has no honor.

Re:Still sell "carbon credits" to California (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46064229)

they have never sold carbon credits to California. And the company is far more honorable than you will ever be.

Knock-Offs (1)

mark0 (750639) | about 7 months ago | (#46063553)

So, how long before I can buy a "Ta Su Lo" from one of those lock-ups in the neighborhood next Beijing's Pearl Market?

Re:Knock-Offs (2)

rmdingler (1955220) | about 7 months ago | (#46063735)

hen kuai

Re:Knock-Offs (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46064357)

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the language. Does that translate as "Next Teusday"?

Re:Knock-Offs (1)

gauauu (649169) | about 7 months ago | (#46064429)

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the language. Does that translate as "Next Teusday"?

It's "very fast".

Re:Knock-Offs (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | about 7 months ago | (#46066313)

My favourite Chinese salesman-ism is, when encouraging you to try some food that looks, sounds or tastes a bit horrible is "...very good for you" said it a suitably serious tone.

E.g.

"Black dog. Very good for you"

Or, if you have a nasty rash from eating the food or breathing the air for an extended period

"Very good for skin".

"Free Trade" (2, Insightful)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 7 months ago | (#46063633)

the customs duty China uses to protect its own auto industry

But remember, we have free trade!

No really, all you have to do is define it such that "free trade" means the US has to bend over, while China, etc. get to do whatever they want to protect their industries.

Re:"Free Trade" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46063743)

*Cough* - Like the entire US agricultural sector?

Re:"Free Trade" (2)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 7 months ago | (#46063915)

No, average US agricultural tariffs are lower than China's. We have a few weird items subject to substantial tariffs, like sugar and orange juice, but our overall agricultural tariffs are low. Looking for high agricultural tariffs? Try the EU.

Re:"Free Trade" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46064153)

We have a few weird items subject to substantial tariff

So does China. They don't have to pretend it's "free trade", though.

Re:"Free Trade" (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46064595)

Corn subsidy.

Market manipulation need not be just a tariff, nor is it always bad, but these clearly are

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

emm-tee (23371) | about 7 months ago | (#46063881)

"U.S. sugar industry has enjoyed trade protection since 1789 when Congress enacted the first tariff against foreign-produced sugar"

http://sugarcane.org/global-po... [sugarcane.org]

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 7 months ago | (#46063939)

Congratulations, you've identified one agricultural product where the US has ridiculous tariffs. Another is orange juice. If you actually consider all agricultural tariffs, the ones in the US are quite low. China's are higher, and the EU's higher still.

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

dk20 (914954) | about 7 months ago | (#46066865)

Dont forget "COOL" (Country of Origin Labelling) designed to protect domestic meat production.

http://www.wto.org/english/tra... [wto.org]

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

TubeSteak (669689) | about 7 months ago | (#46063965)

No really, all you have to do is define it such that "free trade" means the US has to bend over, while China, etc. get to do whatever they want to protect their industries.

If there was a problem with import taxes on autos, we'd complain to the WTO and get a ruling.
Even "free trade" needs someone with the authority to regulate it.

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

MDMurphy (208495) | about 7 months ago | (#46064133)

The US also has the "chicken tax" that adds a whopping 25% tariff on small pickup trucks and vans imported into the US.

Re:"Free Trade" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46064459)

But remember, we have free trade!

No really, all you have to do is define it such that "free trade" means the US has to bend over, while China, etc. get to do whatever they want to protect their industries.

The US perfected this practice, so it's only fair they be on the receiving end every now and then. Have a look at pretty much any "Free Trade" agreement they've made with a country considered to be less powerful than them in the last 50 years.

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

dk20 (914954) | about 7 months ago | (#46069839)

Canada provides a number of examples of this:

Look at all the WTO issues COOL, Softwood Lumber, etc

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

GoodNewsJimDotCom (2244874) | about 7 months ago | (#46064799)

When the US saw its steel industry die in Pittsburgh to China, if Congress was acting towards its people, it would have enacted steel tariff. When the US saw all its industry die to China, it should have at least given tariffs high enough to protect its best 10-15% of industry. But of course, the whole plan isn't to protect US workers, but to get profit margins at the top to record levels. People with too much money get a perverse sense of satisfaction for breaking up unions, and no better way to break up unions than to ship the jobs overseas.

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

m00sh (2538182) | about 7 months ago | (#46065277)

the customs duty China uses to protect its own auto industry

But remember, we have free trade!

No really, all you have to do is define it such that "free trade" means the US has to bend over, while China, etc. get to do whatever they want to protect their industries.

Are you joking? We don't allow China to get our technology. The US government blocks Chinese buyouts of American companies.

It's definitely not one sided as you perceive it to be. They protect their domestic market. We protect our technology.

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

Osgeld (1900440) | about 7 months ago | (#46065335)

yea they have just been building all our tech for the last 30 years totally blind and ignorant of the designs they have been producing since the mid 80's genius

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

JanneM (7445) | about 7 months ago | (#46065491)

US does exactly the same towards foreign car manufacturers.

Re:"Free Trade" (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 7 months ago | (#46065649)

It doesn't, though. We don't have those kind of tariffs, we have other tariffs. Except of course the 25% "chicken tax", still standing today, on light trucks. That's a real bitch because it prevents us from getting the vehicle I want most in the world, the Nissan Patrol Diesel. Oh wait, we'd also still have bullshit from the EPA preventing that motor.

Re:"Free Trade" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46066345)

The hilarity of Yankee whining about trade protection and 'Free trade (TM)'

Re:"Free Trade" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46066651)

Replace "US" with "Mexico" and "China" with "US" and you've just described NAFTA!

Trademarks matters in China? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46063637)

Lol

Tesla (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46063777)

Toys for the 1%ers
 
Keep sucking that rich dick, Slashfucks.

Re:Tesla (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46064129)

I can't imagine living in a world where 70 thousand dollars must seem like something obtainable only by the top 1%. I actually feel really bad for you.

Re:Tesla (4, Insightful)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | about 7 months ago | (#46064181)

I can't imagine living in a world where 70 thousand dollars must seem like something obtainable only by the top 1%

??!?!

Unless you live on Mars, you *do* live in that world.

To BILLIONS of people "in this world" a $70K+ car is something obtainable only by the top 1%. To the deeply impoverished of Africa, India and Asia - And some parts of South America - Spending more money than they will see in their entire lives on a car seems unimaginable, especially when you consider spending $40K on a car and then spreading your 'leftover' $30K in an African village on goats, vaccinations, mosquito nets, school supplies and a well will improve their lives dramatically.

You will literally be saving the lives of children.

Sure you'll be driving a Leaf instead of a Tesla, but so what?

Yeah, yeah, I'm a commie. Whatever. Stop buying stupidly expensive cars and help your fellow man.

Re:Tesla (1)

TheSeatOfMyPants (2645007) | about 7 months ago | (#46064877)

I'm an American, and while I probably walk past at the grocery store that make over $70k/year, being approx. seven times as much as my own income makes it feel like it might as well be something only the really rich people have.

Re:Tesla (1)

will_die (586523) | about 7 months ago | (#46065003)

Saying that the government should take the money from people to do that would make you a commie.
Saying that it is the personal responsibility of people to do that make you a conservative.
Repeating that meme because you want to lessen what others are saying and because you read it so often from liberal sites just makes you an idiot.

Re:Tesla (1)

AmiMoJo (196126) | about 7 months ago | (#46065451)

Buying a Tesla does help your fellow man. We need to move to electric vehicles and reduce dependency on oil and coal. As well as reducing your own output of pollution you help popularize EVs and show that they are viable and profitable.

I'm under now illusion that spending that kind of money on a car is some kind of act of charity, but you could do a lot worse.

Re:Tesla (1)

MMC Monster (602931) | about 7 months ago | (#46066069)

Exactly.

Someone had to buy those personal computers in the 1980s for $3000 a pop (or more) in order to drive the efficiencies that lead to the current wave of sub-$500 PCs that are all over the place.

If someone wants to spend more to be at the forefront, why not congratulate them and allow the march of progress continue?

Re:Tesla (1)

Hal_Porter (817932) | about 7 months ago | (#46066339)

If someone wants to spend more to be at the forefront, why not congratulate them and allow the march of progress continue?

Because they're doing enough of that congratulation themselves whilst whizzing past you in the carpool lane or while making passive aggressive comments about how 'gas guzzlers' should be banned by the government.

Re:Tesla (1)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | about 7 months ago | (#46066089)

Buying a Tesla does help your fellow man. We need to move to electric vehicles and reduce dependency on oil and coal

That's why I said buy a Nissan Leaf instead and use the leftover $30K to help some kids.

Re:Tesla (1)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | about 7 months ago | (#46065543)

Giving $30k to an organization for Africa doesn't help anyone. The Africans themselves either steal or waste the money. Don't ask me - ask the NGOs that work there, they'll give you an earful as long as they don't think anyone's listening and will nail them for racism.

Re:Tesla (1)

Twinbee (767046) | about 7 months ago | (#46065561)

Is it better than 10 people have great lives, or that 50 people have mediocre lives?

Re:Tesla (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46065859)

Is it better than 10 people have great lives, or that 50 people have mediocre lives?

Depends - am I one of the 10 people or the 50 people?

Re:Tesla (1)

Twinbee (767046) | about 7 months ago | (#46066001)

Let's say you're neither.

Re:Tesla (1)

Twinbee (767046) | about 7 months ago | (#46065991)

SSDs were stupid expensive, but because the rich bought them, now they're affordable for most people at just over 500$ for a terabyte (affordable at least in first world countries, but obviously eventually for the third world). Had it not been for those rich people, it would have been much harder for SSDs to gain traction.

Same will go for OLED TVs and electric cars.

Re:Tesla (1)

CohibaVancouver (864662) | about 7 months ago | (#46066099)

That's right, there's kids dying in Africa right now because their parents can't afford mosquito nets to protect them from Malaria. Luckily, they can take cold comfort in the fact that one day they'll be able to buy an OLED TV.

Re:Tesla (1)

Twinbee (767046) | about 7 months ago | (#46066397)

If life is so miserable, then why keep having more children? I'd feel terrible about bringing kids into this world knowing they could die so young, or at least endure a life of poverty. At the very least, it's selfish.

What do you think of the so-called 'prime directive' from Star Trek?

Why America dont do the same. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46064287)

Boost the cost on China made crap.

Re:Why America dont do the same. (1)

rogoshen1 (2922505) | about 7 months ago | (#46064447)

because the peasants will revolt if they have to spend 10% more at walmart on shoddily made bullshit from China. =/

Re:Why America dont do the same. (1)

dk20 (914954) | about 7 months ago | (#46065849)

For many, they honestly don't have the extra 10% to spend. Look at some charts of inflation adjusted income since the 60's.

Something like this: http://www.advisorperspectives... [advisorperspectives.com]

Re:Why America dont do the same. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46065099)

Because the people dont run America, the businesses do. Those businesses make all the money not the Chinese doing all the work suffering all the pollution.

beta.slashdot thread anyone? -1 off topic (1)

morethanapapercert (749527) | about 7 months ago | (#46065393)

I've never been one for thread hijacking, flaming or any of that other sort of rude online behaviour. But I just got shown the latest beta.slashdot.org. Unlike during the last attempt at reinventing the place, there doesn't seem to be a story posted about it specifically. Given how long this story has been up on the main feed, it hasn't attracted all that much commentary, so jumping in offtopic here would be less disruptive than in say the latest Google-related news.

I know how much my fellow slashdotters like to nitpick and complain, the place wouldn't feel like home without you curmudgeons out there. (smile) I know *I* don't like the new version, I've never liked any of the new versions that have come along, always sticking with the closest thing to the classic interface that is offered at the time. I prefer the green-bar printout inspired listing of story summaries, not something that looks like it came out of a glossy magazine or pop culture website.

The way I look at it, the more images, the larger the graphics, the more space devoted to pretty floating banners, the less room there is for actual content I shouldn't have to do a full page scroll just to move from one story to the next.

yea! that will show the (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46065539)

CHICOMs that Imperial Capitalism is king! oh, wait....

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