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Intrinsity Claims 2.2 Ghz Chip

Hemos posted more than 13 years ago | from the believe-when-i-see-it dept.

Technology 308

PowerMacDaddy writes "Over at SiliconValley.com there's an article about an Ausin, TX startup named Intrinsity that has unveiled a new chip that utilizes a new logic process with conventional fab processes to acheive a 2.2GHz clock rate. The company is headed by former Texas Instruments and Apple Computer microprocessor developer Paul Nixon. The real question is, is this all FUD, will the real-world performance be part of The Megahertz Myth, or is this thing for real?"

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fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2111328)

fp mofo! Yeah.

Die spork die.

Re:fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2113912)

Ah, sweet loving first post. Yeah, remember, the big AC in the sky died for your trolling.

P.S. Fuck off, mackga.

Re:fp! (-1)

Cmdr (Fuck You) Taco (469621) | more than 13 years ago | (#2141730)

Would you please die for our trolling, too? Or just die for whatever reason?

Re:fp! (-1)

Pr0n K1ng (160688) | more than 13 years ago | (#2153879)

Wow, that post could have meant so much more if you had been logged in. But you weren't. Way to go, master of the skin flute.

Oh yeah, and fuck you!

HMM (0)

coasterfreak (131657) | more than 13 years ago | (#2113913)

It seems to me to be one of those we said we did it first so we did things. Like M$ and java. It just seems like they are just trying to tell Intel that someone else is doing it first. Since Intel is in the 1.7-8 range

Re:HMM (1)

coasterfreak (131657) | more than 13 years ago | (#2151961)

As a follow up to my own post I forgot to mention, a processor may be able to run at 2.2 Ghz but what kind of instruction code does is it able to run, It must be able to do something.

Some questions to ask

1. What is the FlOp rating?

2. Is it meant to only do one simple operation?

3. Why hasn't many of us heard this before?

4. Does it run Linux yet?

Re:HMM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2118106)

5. Who fucking cares?

FF (0)

X-ploited-rH (302976) | more than 13 years ago | (#2114769)

how many fps can this bad boy do of final fantasy :)

booooooooh-ring (1)

pelorus (463100) | more than 13 years ago | (#2116942)

It's just the other end of the MHz Myth isn't it?

More importantly - this sounds like a company looking for venture capital...but I get the feeling they are maybe a year too late.

Anyone want a 2GHz chip? I mean...really...

2.2 ghz didn't help me (-1)

sheeplover (461448) | more than 13 years ago | (#2118920)

LINUX BROKE MY PRINTER

I installed mandrake yesturday, and the install fialed.. afterwards my printer refused to work.. EVER. I tried it in windows98 (my OS of choice) and it's now broken. I called the manufacturer and they said 'WE DONT SUPPORRT LINUX SO GO AWAY'

linux broke my goddamn printer!

Re:2.2 ghz didn't help me (1)

Asalami (321459) | more than 13 years ago | (#2123602)

Don't blame linux. BLAME CANADA.

Re:2.2 ghz didn't help me (-1)

sheeplover (461448) | more than 13 years ago | (#2170174)

I blame the buttf*cking canada gets from the US

But what instruction set? (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 13 years ago | (#2122046)

The question is what instruction set? If it's custom, then they are introuble (unless they expidite work on ports of Linux, GCC, X, etc). If it's instruction set is based on something current but not quite mainstream (Alpha, M68k) then they will be in decent shape. If it runs the x86 (IA-32) instruction set, then they've got a good chance. If it is something else (IA-64 or x86-64) then I'm not quite sure. But of those two, I think they would have a better chance if they went with AMD's x86-64. But whatever the instruction set, I think that we've seen that an easy way to get into the market fast is to embrace Linux and other open source projects head on. Transmeta works great (it supports IA-32 and can run Windoze, which is part), nVidia has done great because of great hardware and IMHO Linux support. ATI could have cared less, but then they got their act together, suppored Linux, and they are doing great now.

To sum up:

SUPPORT LINUX

Marketing crap (1)

bokmann (323771) | more than 13 years ago | (#2122047)

Is this company having an IPO anytime soon? I think they are trying to cash in on the megahetz myth with unwary investors. They push the story now, have 2 or three follow up stories repeated by news organizations who don't know any better, and voila!, they have a ready-made blip for their first few days of trading.

Notice, the article is quietly misleading people who read it into thinking this chip is somehow compariable/compatible with x86 instruction sets... like they have somehow trumped Intel to the 2.2 gig mark, the same way AMD trumped them to the 1 gig mark about a year ago.

Watch the blip, then sell short.

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Hmm..... (2, Insightful)

forsaken33 (468293) | more than 13 years ago | (#2122053)

Hoping this comes to desktops next year....or at least the threat comes to the desktops. Its first products will be designed to control high-speed communications equipment. High speed as in what? Telecom/cable quality? Or professional networking material? (just had to put that there....most people dont read the article. Im usually one of them lol)

IF this does come to desktops.....that is good. More competition = lower prices. But, lots of issues that are still unclear. What kind of packaging will this be in? Will it require a proprietary motherboard? If it does.....well......im sensing that this wont last too long. Intrinsity's test chip achieved faster performance using conventional methods, where other chip makers have generated chips running at 400 to 500 megahertz, or about one-fourth as fast as the Intrinsity chip So whats this supposed to mean? Maybe they should make that clear. Is that saying that any chip over 400 or 500 Mhz uses special manufacturing techniques. Now that would be the majority of chips......so how can that be special then?

Also.....Much of Intrinsity's work has involved making improvements to a fundamental building block for processor chips: the logic circuit. Intrinsity relies heavily on a faster but trickier type of circuit, called dynamic logic, than do conventional processors. Dynamic logic circuits can handle more complex functions with fewer steps than static logic circuits So does this mean specialized applications/OSes? Not worrying about linux....know it will be ported. But if this needs a special OS, and special new (read expensive) applications......think it will go under.

Proves the technology is there, though, which is a good thing

So what? (0, Troll)

Achilleas (454421) | more than 13 years ago | (#2122055)

Ok, but it is not a Pentium CPU. I can not run Linux or Windows on it. So it is useless. And it will also be useless in the future, because it is highly unlikely Intel or AMD will licence this technology. Not only that, but Intel is far ahead of 2.2 MHz. They just do not show the technology to the public right now, because they must sell the current generation of processors.

Re:So what? (2)

geekoid (135745) | more than 13 years ago | (#2114541)

If what you said was true about intel, why do they let AMD keep punching them in the groin? Plus, with this process Intel/AMD could use CURRENT fabs to generat 8GHz chip.

We can build 100mhz chips right now! (5, Funny)

Ted V (67691) | more than 13 years ago | (#2122434)

Just take a normal processor and put an inverter ring off to the side, running at 100mhz, and connected to nothing but power and ground.

Back in the 60s, the power of a radio was measured by the number of transistors. That is, until one radio company put hundreds of useless transistors on their board and didn't even wire them up. After that, radios started getting measured on real abilities like quality of sound. Maybe computer marketting will catch up some day, marketting meaningful numbers: minimum FPS in Quake 3!

-Ted

Re:We can build 100mhz chips right now! (2, Funny)

Nehemiah S. (69069) | more than 13 years ago | (#2129612)

I don't think you'd make Slashdot's front page by producing a 100mhz chip. Not this decade, at least...

neh

Re:We can build 100mhz chips right now! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170169)

A former prostitute with a rather well-used vagina that has been somewhat stretched is given a proposal of marriage by a man she meets in a bar one night. She thinks it over, and she decides to accept his proposal.

Her private parts are somewhat oversized from her former occupation, but she decides to approach the problem after they are married. On their wedding night, she explains the problem by saying that when she was a small child, she got her privates caught on some barbed wire while climbing over a fence, which explains why her vagina is so big.

They make wild and passionate love for most of the night, and in the early hours of the morning, her husband, after regaining his breath, turns to her and says, "I can understand your private parts being stretched by this barbed wire, my dear, but just HOW far across the field were you before you noticed??"

A word on "The Megahertz Myth" (2, Redundant)

Anomolous Cow Herd (457746) | more than 13 years ago | (#2123695)

What makes you think that something created by Apple and posted on their site is anything other than PR material and FUD? Just because it denounces one of the Slashdot "Great Satans" (Intel) doesn't neccessarily mean that it is anymore true than Intel marketing claiming that bigger Mhz == better.

And honestly, just because the G4 does better on some obscure Photoshop benchmarks really doesn't make up for its lack of scalability (as compared to RISC chips like the UltraSparc II and II) and its lack of good performance in real world applications (as compared to AMD and Intel x86 chips). Please stop the spread of pro-Apple FUD now.

Re:A word on "The Megahertz Myth" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2156667)

Ummm... PowerPC chips are RISC.

Intel (1)

Calamere (318591) | more than 13 years ago | (#2124525)

If this 2.2 ghz chip was commercially available, do you think that Intel (and AMD??) would release one to match it/beat it in a week?

My guess.... probably.

Re:Intel (2)

geekoid (135745) | more than 13 years ago | (#2113905)

Not if the patent on the chip manufacturing process is protected. remember, they crated this chip with a fab that was designed to prodec 400 MHz chip. Imagine, if you can, being able to prodeced 8GHz chips in 18 months using the same fabs that they use to create ~1.5GHz fabs.

Not for the desktop, yet ... (1)

halftrack (454203) | more than 13 years ago | (#2125459)

As the space between the lines in the article say: This won't be for desktop computers, yet ...

There is an obvious problem that people, keeps forgetting; RAM-speed. The RAM (and mainboard) can't supply the CPU with enough data to process fast enough. Anyone care to elaborate this with some math and tech info, maybe some predictions on RAM vs. CPU-bus speed development?

This is not news (1)

uberchicken (121048) | more than 13 years ago | (#2126816)

Big deal. Wake me up when we start talking terahertz .

Wake up! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170182)

There's a typo. The headline should read, "Intrinsity Claims .0022 Thz Chip".

MHz (5, Informative)

room101 (236520) | more than 13 years ago | (#2127850)

The real question is, is this all FUD, will the real-world performance be part of The Megahertz Myth, or is this thing for real?"

It doesn't matter if it is real or vapour, it will still fall prey to the "Megahertz Myth". Maybe someday, people will understand: non-similar architectures can't be compared by MHz alone. And even most similar arch's can't be compared via MHz, as the Intel v. AMD war will tell you.

It is even worse than that! no single metric will ever give you the whole story.

Re:MHz (3, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156821)

Actuall the article has little to do with clock rate comparison the way you're thinking of it, it has more to do with manufacturing, and core improvements which could possible raise the MHz across the board. I'll wager they'll try manufacturing chips, but when that fails 1 of 3 things will happen:
1)they liscese the tech, which is what they should do from the begining.
2)AMD or Intel will buy them
3)AMD and Intel (independently) will gear up there marketing drones, and this chip will fade from memory.
what we need is a testing algrythem that all processors use. then we can rate chips as "it completed the Moffitt algorithem in 1.5 minutes!".

Re:MHz (0)

JanusFury (452699) | more than 13 years ago | (#2170188)

We also need to spell better ;P But very good point, a cpu-taxing algorithm would be good. But it would have to equally tax all parts of the CPU, as in processor extensions, floating-point, integer, etc. == pain in the arse to code.

Re:MHz (1)

room101 (236520) | more than 13 years ago | (#2170194)

Intresting.

what we need is a testing algrythem that all processors use. then we can rate chips as "it completed the Moffitt algorithem in 1.5 minutes!".

That is what the newer benchmarks try to do: run real-world programs and time them. I guess the problem with that is the real-world programs are always going to be moving targets, so you can only usually compare current-generation chips/systems (as the chip doesn't tell the whole story in cases like this, so it even more of a pain).

The problem with picking "the Moffitt algorthim", is that it will always be skewed to current chip implementations, thus, big new ideas will perform poorly, until we think of better algorithms.

668 neighbor of the beast

Funny. We have server farms where I work, so we give each server a number and a name. We actually have a test box with server # 667, and name "NeighborOfTheBeast".

Re:MHz (1)

MaxQuordlepleen (236397) | more than 13 years ago | (#2170200)

what we need is a testing algrythem that all processors use. then we can rate chips as "it completed the Moffitt algorithem in 1.5 minutes!".

But won't you then have the problem of chips and architectures designed around the "Moffit algorithm"?

Kind of like the consumer 3D market, where drivers are tweaked for the common benchmarks...

Re:MHz (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170198)

The newly born sperm was receiving instructions in conception from the instructor: "As soon as you hear the siren, run for the tunnel and swim in a straight line until you get to the entrance of a damp cavern. At the end of the cavern you will find a red, sticky ball which is the egg. Address it and say, 'I'm a Sperm. She will answer, 'I'm the Egg. From that moment on you will work together to create the embryo. Do you understand?"

The sperm nodded affirmatively and the instructor said, "Then, good luck!"

Two days later, the sperm is taking a nap when he hears the siren. He wakes up immediately and runs to the tunnel. A multitude of sperm swim behind him. He knows he has to arrive first. When he nears the entrance to the cavern,he looks back and sees that he is far ahead of the other sperm. He is able to swim at a slower pace but does approach the red, sticky ball.

When, at last, he reaches the red, sticky ball, he smiles and says "Hi, I'm a sperm."

The red sticky ball smiles and says "Hi. I'm a tonsil."

Isn't that a mis-use of the word FUD (1)

Leimy (6717) | more than 13 years ago | (#2128010)

How does Fear Uncertainty and Doubt come into play?

Oh wow! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170179)

Misuse of the word "FUD" on Slashdot? Now that's something that has never happened before.

Not a Processor! (1)

smasch (77993) | more than 13 years ago | (#2129631)

This product looks like a way to create extremely fast logic that approaches the performace of dynamic logic. It looks like it would be used either to make FPGA or CPLD devices, or full custom logic (the site isn't clear on this). They claim this could be used for any high performance logic (which would imply it could be used in processors). Their site is extremely short on details and it looks like this product could be vapor, especially given the fact they start with a Flash animation...

looks that way (2)

johnjones (14274) | more than 13 years ago | (#2114542)

it looks like it is not actually a processor

they seem to be trying to figure out placment of logic

remeber this is VERY important in chip 80% of wires and therefore heat comes from the clock sync inside of the chip (acording to IBM powerPC paper in the ACM microproccesor journel)

placment is very lucritive Cadence and such make millions from it but this seems to be FUD because you can run process at 0.10 micro @ TSMC now and they are standardiseing on it should be done

it does not seem to be anything but hoax e.g the clock rates mean nothing unless the whole chip runs at that frequancy and is RISC whith no caches no pipelines of which I assure you there are few

what counts is memory bandwidth and how often you use memory

regards

john jones

hmm (1)

NoSoup4You (256309) | more than 13 years ago | (#2130304)

interesting how apple's g4 propaganda manages to leave out any comparison to an amd processor

What the Hell Is Wrong With You? (0, Troll)

danheskett (178529) | more than 13 years ago | (#2134469)

The real question is, is this all FUD, will the real-world performance be part of The Megahertz Myth, or is this thing for real?"

Well what the fuck type of question is that?

What, do you think Slashdot is the Oracle-of-fucking-Delphi?

Jesus, we come to slashdot for news, not for speculation on speculation on what our speculation might be. Fucking christ.

Re:What the Hell Is Wrong With You? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170202)

rhetorical question
n. A question to which no answer is expected, often used for rhetorical effect.

must..try... not..... to .... imagine.... ..it! (1)

SClitheroe (132403) | more than 13 years ago | (#2136096)

Too late! The beowulf meme strikes again...

Weird article... (5, Insightful)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 13 years ago | (#2138697)

In a nutshell this is saying "Someone said something, but it might be bogus, and the cycle speed really doesn't mean much anyways.". Alrighty then. This is like a "nothing to see here, move along!" type articles.

A more technical article is available at... (4, Informative)

c-w-k (142705) | more than 13 years ago | (#2140479)

eetimes [eetimes.com]

Re:A more technical article is available at... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170185)

A man went to a strip club. When he got inside he noticed a seat conspicuously unoccupied in the front row. Seizing the opportunity, he took the seat.

As soon as the first dancer walked out, the guy directly behind him yelled, "Yeah baby! That's what I've been waiting for!"

The man in the front row turned around and gave him a dirty look. A few minutes into the show, the dancer did a move and snatched off her top, revealing two pasties. The guy behind our friend goes off again. "Yeah baby! Shake those things."

Our friend turned around and said, "Hey buddy, calm down!"

After a few moments, the dancer did another move, and snatched off her dress, revealing a very thin G-string. Again the man behind our friend yelled out, "Oh baby! You're almost there!"

Our friend again turned around and said, "Hey buddy, shut the hell up, will ya!"

A few minutes later, the dancer stretched out on the floor and snatched off both the pasties and the G-string, and the whole club went wild, except for the man behind our friend. Curious, our friend turned around and asked, "Say buddy, where's your enthusiasm now?"

The guy responded, "It's all over your back, dude."

Hardware vs hacking (0, Offtopic)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 13 years ago | (#2144865)

So the third principle that hackers are uncontrollable can be solved by doing hardware controls eh?

Unfortunately the Article relies on too many myths of it's own:

1. Hardware is difficult to hack.

Sure it is *more* difficult generally, but the internet will still allow distribution of the information about how to do it very easily.

2. Companies will make products people don't want.

Companies make products people don't *need*, but invariably they need people to *want* their products. There is no reason a hard drive or a computer that makes music copying difficult is something people want. People will simply buy the computer that is easy to use. (like apple and winXP support cd burning very easily now)

3. Comanies care about other companies

Microsoft doesn't give two craps about Sony as far as Sony could affect their bottom line. In the end they can make more money selling things to people so that the people can rip Sony off than Sony could give them not to.

Re:Hardware vs hacking (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2122048)

haha dumbass

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Mhrz = speed ;-) (1, Insightful)

jessemckinney (398160) | more than 13 years ago | (#2145231)

I would really like one of the 300Mhrz crays out there, but intel makes a faster processor. Right? ;-)

Sigh... (0)

cmdrsed (472978) | more than 13 years ago | (#2145535)

I can't wait to see how much faster 733Mhz Apple G4 processors are at running Photoshop 6 under prime conditions than this new chip. *Rolls his eyes*

FUD??? (1)

sterno (16320) | more than 13 years ago | (#2145740)

Perhaps this is vaporware, but FUD? What does fear, uncertainty, and doubt have to do with this?

Read your Slashdot dictionary (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2156664)

FUD = Anything I disagree with.

yay..but cpu means poop (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2145946)

now that the cpu isn't the bottleneck anymore lets work on memory and other buss bottlenecks..

Clock speed, shmlock speed. (1)

apirkle (40268) | more than 13 years ago | (#2146207)

If you read the EE Times [eetimes.com] article on the same subject (a much better article IMNSHO), you'll see that the aim of this company is to produce high-speed chips with low power consumption. They want twice the speed for only half again as much power.

The company has not yet announced which architecture their chips will use; most likely RISC, and the aforementioned EE Times article speculates that they will use MIPS rather than PowerPC because of lower licensing fees.

This design will not be finished for another 18 months. By that time, Intel and AMD will certainly have passed the 2.2 GHz mark. But still, the embedded systems market should be a little excited over this one.

Stephen King, author, dead at 54 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2146715)


I just heard sad news on talk radio - Horror/fiction writer Stephen King was found dead in his Maine house this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure we'll all miss him - even if you didn't read his books you've probably enjoyed one of his movies. Truly an American icon.

Re:Stephen King, author,**NOT** dead YET (2, Funny)

tenman (247215) | more than 13 years ago | (#2122801)

NOT TRUE... I just called his wife. He is fine!!!!

Visionary Timothy McVeigh, dead at 33 (-1)

Cmdr (Fuck You) Taco (469621) | more than 13 years ago | (#2152879)

As heard on NPR a few minutes ago - Anti-Government Visionary Timothy McVeigh was found dead in his Terre Haute prison this morning. I'm sure we'll all miss him - even if you didn't follow his work you've probably enjoyed some of his writings. Truly an American icon.

Annoyance "King is dead" troll, dead at -1 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170207)

As heard on /. a few minutes ago -- the "Stephen King is Dead" troll was found dead in the water this morning. I'm sure we'll all miss it -- even if you didn't follow its posts, you've probably enjoyed some of the knock-offs. Truly an American icon.

What's the big deal? (2)

cperciva (102828) | more than 13 years ago | (#2146716)

What's so great about 2.2GHz? Intel is selling 1.8GHz processors right now, will be launching 2.0GHz processors within the next two weeks, and there are Pentium 4 processors -- both within Intel and outside in the hands of overclockers -- running at 2.2GHz or higher already. (And note that the ALU is double-clocked, ie running at 4.4GHz).

If this story was two years old, it might be significant... but it is far from revolutionary right now.

Re:What's the big deal? (2)

geekoid (135745) | more than 13 years ago | (#2146232)

If you read the article, you would know what the big deal is. If thay can scale this process to the current chips, we could see 8GHz chips.
the big deal is they took a method thats used to creat 400 MHz chips, and created a 2.2 GHz chip.

Re:What's the big deal? (1)

halftrack (454203) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156683)

Were talking about 2.2Ghz clock speed. Not speeded up using the multiplier. (right?) The AMD T-bird has got a clock speed of 266Mhz, but uses a multiplier on 5.

Re:What's the big deal? (2)

beme (85862) | more than 13 years ago | (#2170206)

The eetimes article
http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010813S0060
makes it sound like this thing is targetted more towards the embedded market, where (so the article says), the top chips are running at 500MHz. Not sure why they wouldn't try for a desktop pc solution...?

Dynamic logic is nothing new .... (3, Informative)

taniwha (70410) | more than 13 years ago | (#2151323)

From memory 8080s hade some dynamic nodes - the upside is that you can squeeze some extra gate delays out of some circuits (dynamic carry chains are a good example) - the down side is a chip with a MINIMUM clock speed - which makes test (scan and ATE etc) much harder - those expensive testers we test chips with just don't go that fast.

Given that net delays are becoming the gating factor in big chip designs dynamic logic seems to me to just be a sideshow - unless the long wires are themselves the dynamic nodes (transmission lines with solitons moving on them?) now that would be interesting ...

Potentially much more interesting IMHO is clockless asynchronous logic - but CAD tools just aren't up to supporting this methodology (oh yeah and the synchronous clock based mindset is pretty entrenched too).

Just a guess... (1)

affegott (104661) | more than 13 years ago | (#2153703)

...but I think this chip falls in the "MHz Myth" area.

We need a few more detail on what type of operations it can do in a clock cycle...

Re:Just a guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2122803)

Actually, it can probably be said with a fair amount of certainty that it is competitive with normal CMOS designs. Here's the problem though..they said that it uses dynamic logic. That implies that there are precharge and evaluate phases to a clock cycle. Unfortunately, the precharge is going to hit you considerably with respect to power (unlike CMOS where the majority of power is only burned during state changes). Unless they're doing precharge gating, it's going to be a really nice heater.

http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20010813S0060 has much better coverage of the story.

Why is everything non-Apple a myth? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2156685)

You accept the 'MHz myth' with no knowledge of the totally rigged Photoshop demos Stevie demonstrates, yet you are faaaaaaaaaaar to rational and objective to let these technological heavy-weights make silly claims about fast microchips. Good thinking, because they might lie like every other corporation out there except for Apple does.

Newsflash - the MHz Myth is the myth. It's marketing hype to convince mac buyers their slow computers can compete. They are generally more capable clock-for-clock, but the overall performance is far from 'supercomputer' and comes with a hefty translucent tax. Powerbooks are a notable exception, but until the rest of the line begins to show SOME value like those, most (other) people will see right through the translucent marketing BS.

Re:Why is everything non-Apple a myth? (2)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 13 years ago | (#2110556)

Rigged? How? Both computers had 1 gig RAM, same Maxtor HD, same version of photoshop.

Re:Why is everything non-Apple a myth? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170189)

Rigged by running the few apps, like photoshop, that do well on the processor.

Re:Why is everything non-Apple a myth? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170191)

Why, did it happen to be Photoshop 6.0? I wonder why? [tech-report.com] Why don't they benchmark the mac with anything other than PS, ever, ever, ever, ever? How could anyone question the validity of an application that has always been primarily a mac application? Who could dare question the absolute paragon of integrity, Apple Computer? They merely dispell myths and educate us, why, they don't even have a marketing department, just educators to let us in on the 'truth.'

Re:Just a guess... (3, Informative)

b0r1s (170449) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156783)

Looking at some of the people working for/with this company, I'm not gonna jump on the "it has to be a myth" bandwagon....


Terry Gannon - Independent consultant. Terry founded TeraGen and has held executive positions at Xilinx, Seeq and Sun Microsystems.

John Payne - Chairman of Fast Chip. John is the former president and COO of IDT; president and CEO of Star Semiconductor; president and COO of Rendition.

Rick Shiner - Venture partner with Woodside Fund. Rick is the former president and CEO of Hotrail; president and CEO of Exponential Technology. He has also held executive positions at Apple, Intel, Motorola and Wang Laboratories.

Tom Whiteside - Independent consultant. Tom is the former president of MIPS Technology. He also served as the Vice President of Microprocessor Development at IBM and most recently served on the board of Chicory Systems.

Bill Goins - Marketing Angel. With over 25 years of marketing leadership, Bill founded Powered,Inc. and performed COO, VP or executive marketing roles at Micron Electronics, Power Computing, Apple, Dynamac and NL Information Systems.


There really is some intelligence and talent working for this company, I'd like to see what they can produce. Maybe in a few months, if there's no decent benchmarks (by that time, someone somewhere should have written code to use their logic, right?), then I'll jump on the "it's a myth" bandwagon, but I'm willing to give them a chance first.

Re:Just a guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2156637)

In answer to your question you'd think an executive at Xilinx might know a thing or two about chip design.

Re:Just a guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2156786)

Thats a reasonable sounding board, but can any of them design chips?

Re:Just a guess... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2170167)

Well, if you believe in this thing, you can buy it when it comes out...

Me, I'm still waiting on that Russian Elbrus E2K.

Mandatory joke (1, Offtopic)

proxima (165692) | more than 13 years ago | (#2153704)

Can we trust what anyone named Nixon says?

Nothing personal, but it was just sitting there begging to be said.

Mysterious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2153709)

I remember when Linus Torvalds' company was called "mysterious" and "secretive". Yet, here is a company that has NOT produced any rumour mills to speak of, BUT produced a 2.2 GHz CPU. No frills.

THAT is secrecy!

See my 2.2 GHz asshole (-1)

Cmdr (Fuck You) Taco (469621) | more than 13 years ago | (#2153878)

It's here [goatse.cx] .

It will sort itself out. (1)

Night Goat (18437) | more than 13 years ago | (#2153880)

I guess the important thing will be how well they market it. If it is widely accepted, then we'll know whether it was built robustly, or whether they just jacked up the MHz and left the rest built real shoddily.

FRP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2156635)

Niggers and Jews, they really gotta go - ya know?

Re:FRP (-1)

Ralph JewHater Nader (450769) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156665)

Well said indeed, they really should be exterminated. But a picture speaks a thousand words.

What is dynamic logic? (2, Interesting)

zerofoo (262795) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156666)

What is dynamic logic? How is it different from conventional logic wired together with different types of gates?

-ted

Re:What is dynamic logic? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2122802)

Are you new to computers?

Re:What is dynamic logic? (5, Informative)

Christopher Thomas (11717) | more than 13 years ago | (#2170205)

What is dynamic logic? How is it different from conventional logic wired together with different types of gates?

Both dynamic and static logic use logic gates or blocks that are wired together. The difference is in how the gates are implemented internally, and how they pass data back and forth.

CMOS is a good example of static logic. It uses pull-up and pull-down transistor networks to make sure that outputs are always strongly asserted. This makes CMOS gates big and makes input capacitance larger than it otherwise needs to be. But, it's well-understood, has a few attractive features, and has a whole slew of design tools built for it.

Precharge logic is a good example of dynamic logic. It uses the parasitic capacitance of the output line to store the output value. The output node is charged up on one half of the clock (precharge phase), and left floating on the other half (readout phase). During the readout phase, the inputs are asserted. Inputs are fed into a pull-down transistor network that drives the output low if it should be low, and leaves it alone if it should be high. This style of logic takes up half the space of CMOS logic, has half the input capacitance, and has stronger driving capability (NFETs pulling down typically drive 2x-3x more strongly than PFETs pulling up). This means that if you play your cards right, you can make precharge logic circuits that are faster *and* more compact than CMOS logic circuits. The downsides are that designing and verifying precharge logic is a royal pain, and that you have to have a clock input into the logic block.

The article describes a more complicated dynamic logic scheme with a four-phase clock. These kinds of schemes have been floating around in research literature for years, but are usually not used because of the greater complexity and fewer tools available.

regardless of weather it's real... (1)

hillct (230132) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156679)

Weather it's FUD or not isn't important. It'd be a blast to even try to come up with a real world implementation. Remember, technology fot technology's sake.

I know i'm the last one who doesn't,... (1)

tenman (247215) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156676)

but I don't know what FUD stands for... can a fellow slashdotter be so kind as to point out what a lame posser I am for not being able to keep up with the Jargon of the 3733t HaX0r2, while at the same time catching me up with the times???

Re:I know i'm the last one who doesn't,... (1)

Haggis Muncher (471554) | more than 13 years ago | (#2170195)

FUD stands for "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" and makes up a large proportion of modern marketing in the IT world.

Oh.. it runs at 2.2Ghz (1)

LordOfYourPants (145342) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156700)

the only catch is that ADDing and SUBTracting take over 4000 clock cycles to complete.

Re:Oh.. it runs at 2.2Ghz (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 13 years ago | (#2143658)

Yeah, but it can do Seti@HOME data units in only two cycles.

Q3 (3, Funny)

jinx_ (88343) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156701)

alright! another 2 fps in quake3!

*sigh* i want a turbo button on my computer. except, instead of halving my speed, i want it to drop down to 33MHz so i can play all my old games properly under dos.

Moslo (2)

Ted V (67691) | more than 13 years ago | (#2125843)

Or is it moslow? Anyway, there is a program you can use to run games slower. Like... "moslow 10 ultima4" runs ultima 4 at 10% speed. One test of how well a game is programmed, though, is whether or not it needs moslow after 10 years. Games like Doom, Commander Keen, and Prince of Persia all run fine without moslow. Ultima 7 is a different story...

-Ted

Re:Moslo (1)

jinx_ (88343) | more than 13 years ago | (#2122054)

i tried moslo, but it has(had?) the problem of running semi-jerky in most games that i was interested in. example: it worked fine with wing commander ii, but the game was so jerky that it was unplayable anyway.

Re:Moslo (3, Interesting)

zulux (112259) | more than 13 years ago | (#2114540)

I friend and I made a small video game, and being the better programer than me - my frind made a bit of code that estimated the speed of the computer and added a delay loop to the game to slow it down.

Fast forward to Today

We lost the complete source code, and our computers are so darn fast that the bit of code that estimates the speed of the computer over-runs it's 16 bit Int slot. The game now hangs hangs.

So we are forced to run our game in Windows to slow it down. It works half the time - it depends on the time slicing. Recently our computers are getting a bit to fast for even that - so we might have to move to an emulator.

The smart thing to do would be to fire up the hex editor and edit the cose, but that would be *cheating*

Frost Pist (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2156805)

First Post at 2.2 Ghz

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2156807)

Ceci n'est pas une first post.

Re:fp (-1)

Ralph JewHater Nader (450769) | more than 13 years ago | (#2145546)

Shut the fuck up, gallic jew. Die in the ovens!

notamyth (1)

Sekmu (20555) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156810)

One of the points here, I think, is not just the performance gains or being the first to hit 2.2, but the fact that they have a new technique that *allows* 2.2Mhz, and supposedly fairly 'cheaply' at that.

Any new technology is good. Even if their processors aren't really competitive in the long run, their technology will trickle down, or force similar technology to be developed to compete.

Re:notamyth (0)

mcspock (252093) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156797)

Thank you for noticing that the magic here is not a new processor, rather, that they have a technique that allows 2.2GHz chips. They explicitly state their target audience is telecom and networking appliances, so this only relates to the "Does it run Linux?1!?!" crowd in that it shows 2+GHz can be done now, and it will likely accelerate the PC chipmakers.

Re:notamyth (1)

LordOfYourPants (145342) | more than 13 years ago | (#2156798)

Yes.. Hopefully "similar technology" does not involve Intel coming out with a 2.2GHz CPU 3 months from now but with a water-cooled system or some-such other hack. I would rather see processors run cooler than this constant neck and neck race for processor speed while the number of fans in my case jumps from 1 to 12.

More on the MHz myth (2)

mr100percent (57156) | more than 13 years ago | (#2170170)

The video on Apple's site on the myth gives a really good explanation, people who aren't a CS major can understand it.

For those of you who want more, gave a great [www.arstec...rstechnica] explanation [arstechnica.com] the week before I saw this live.

Depends on a lot of factors (2, Informative)

robbyjo (315601) | more than 13 years ago | (#2170187)

It's not MHz that determines the speed. It's just one of them. The rest would be:

  • Pipeline or non pipeline with the number of stages. The more stages the better (but watch out with the cache trashing issue like in P4).
  • Scalar or vector
  • How many n in n-Multiscalar
  • RISC or CISC
  • Internal bus speed
  • Memory bandwidth
  • I/O speed

And many more. If you have learnt Computer Architecture, then you'd certainly able to list hundreds more.

Moreover, Apple wants to play catchup [theregister.co.uk] with x86... Hmmm... Do you smell something fishy?

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