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FBI Has Tor Mail's Entire Email Database

samzenpus posted about 9 months ago | from the lets-see-what-you-wrote dept.

Privacy 195

An anonymous reader writes "Tor Mail was an anonymized email service run over Tor. It was operated by a company called Freedom Hosting, which was shut down by the FBI last August. The owner was arrested for 'enabling child porn,' and the Tor Mail servers suddenly began hosting FBI malware that attempted to de-anonymize users. Now, Wired reports on a new court filing which indicates that the FBI was also able to grab Tor Mail's entire email database. 'The filings show the FBI built its case in part by executing a search warrant on a Gmail account used by the counterfeiters, where they found that orders for forged cards were being sent to a TorMail e-mail account: "platplus@tormail.net." Acting on that lead in September, the FBI obtained a search warrant for the TorMail account, and then accessed it from the bureau's own copy of "data and information from the TorMail e-mail server, including the content of TorMail e-mail accounts," according to the complaint (PDF) sworn out by U.S. Postal Inspector Eric Malecki.'"

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Wait, WTF? (5, Insightful)

Penguinisto (415985) | about 9 months ago | (#46082953)

Anyone with an Internet connection is capable of 'enabling child porn'.

Fuck sakes - is CP now the backdoor to the whole US Constitution (not to mention the means by which anyone, anywhere, can be arrested for any reason?)

Someone needs to seriously put a curb on this.

Re:Wait, WTF? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083023)

Mentioning "child porn" and "backdoor" is probably a poor choice of words when you're logged in and traceable.

BADTHINK MINDCRIME DETECTED! (5, Funny)

Thud457 (234763) | about 9 months ago | (#46083147)

please, STOP thinking about the children!

Re:BADTHINK MINDCRIME DETECTED! (4, Insightful)

HyperQuantum (1032422) | about 9 months ago | (#46083767)

They only think about the children when it fits their agenda.

Re:Wait, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083047)

Also know as "quick we need a bullshit excuse, claim something bad went over this service no matter how many legitimate uses it had and fuck the constitution."

Re:Wait, WTF? (5, Insightful)

houstonbofh (602064) | about 9 months ago | (#46083073)

Is CP now the backdoor to the whole US Constitution (not to mention the means by which anyone, anywhere, can be arrested for any reason?)

Now? Where have you been for the past 20 years?

Re:Wait, WTF? (4, Informative)

lgw (121541) | about 9 months ago | (#46083859)

When Slashdot was very young, before we had a mode system, the was an article on "the four horsemen of the internet apocalypse": that our rights online were sure to erode in the name of fighting terrorism, CP, hacking, and/or drug dealing. Wow, that was an amazing prediction - if we include "torrenting ripped media" in hacking, that's been right on target. I hadn't been understanding the "drug dealing" part until the Silk Road bust, but sure enough.

This is why I resist giving the government any special power only to be used in extremes - excuses are so readily available that "extremes" becomes commonplace in a few years. And whatever the real motivation for the various TOR busts, WikiLeaks is effectively dead now as a result, with their TOR service is gone.

You can certainly see the FBI wanting TOR just strong enough to leak information from the Iranian government safely, but not strong enough to leak information about the US government safely. Sad that it seems to have come to that.

Re:Wait, WTF? (4, Insightful)

Sperbels (1008585) | about 9 months ago | (#46083979)

our rights online were sure to erode in the name of fighting terrorism, CP, hacking, and/or drug dealing. Wow, that was an amazing prediction

No it wasn't. Even before the internet, these things were used violate peoples constitutional rights.

Re:Wait, WTF? (3, Funny)

lgw (121541) | about 9 months ago | (#46084199)

Hey now, are you saying that the same old thing on the internet isn't new and patent-worthy? Heresy!

Re:Wait, WTF? (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083091)

Simply put: it was a lie. The FBI raided the Freedom Hosting guy for tormail. That the Freedom Hosting guy was providing hosting to kiddy porn sites (along with quite a few other non-kiddy-porn users) was just icing on the cake.

Re:Wait, WTF? (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083103)

And don't forget that the range "child porn" materials already includes cartoon drawings, adults who look too young, and images of fully-clothed children. Soon the definition of "child porn" will also be expanded to include pictures of cats and any women who are not wearing full headscarves.

Re:Wait, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083173)

ankles, lower legs, and also the word "mittens".

Re:Wait, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083363)

Then they will want to shutdown Facebook and U-tube next, or at some point. The only way to stop them is to take their money away.

Re:Wait, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083557)

Hey wait a minute. Is this [imdb.com] CP? Turner Classic Movies is a CP distributor.

Re:Wait, WTF? (1)

TheCarp (96830) | about 9 months ago | (#46083109)

> is CP now the backdoor to the whole US Constitution

The backdoor? Nah, if it was that simple they wouldn't need terrorism or drugs.

Re:Wait, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083237)

It is to late. Once freedom left America the terrorist won. What ever it is we have now it is not the America of old.
Just go to DMV and see what papers you need. Funny I can photoshop any of them and use a 3d printer to make any state seal for any birth documents.
But show me your papers.

At first a generation wont join the military then a generation will actively fight against it.
Just a matter of time till the internal collapse.
It is clear to see they never understood what it was that made America great.

Re:Wait, WTF? (2)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about 9 months ago | (#46083251)

Fuck sakes - is CP now the backdoor to the whole US Constitution (not to mention the means by which anyone, anywhere, can be arrested for any reason?)

Cheat code in Democracy for Dictator Mode: Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, Child Porn Exists

Re:Wait, WTF? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083275)

Fuck sakes - is CP now the backdoor to the whole US Constitution[...]?)

Yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse

NO, no no! (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083281)

Fuck sakes - is CP now the backdoor to the whole US Constitution (not to mention the means by which anyone, anywhere, can be arrested for any reason?)

"Fighting the War on: terrorism, drugs, freedom er preserving out way of life, ...." is still relevant.

See, the security services are now using people's fear and subsequent irrationality to justify their violations of the Constitution and people's basic unalienable Rights.

Our Government has become out of control.

NO! Violence! EVER! (Contrary to the NRA's position of "fighting tyranny" - but what do you expect from a bunch of fat blowhards who shoot at stationary targets once a week or so and feel real BIG. ). Violence will just lead to the Government labeling you as a terrorist and child killer or whatever and the media - all the media - will eat it up: the media is just a bunch of unquestioning sheep (especially Fox) and they only ask "questions" when it can boost ratings while fitting into their audience's World view - like Fox.

We the People need to stop being distracted by issues like abortion, gay marriage, and even government finances - for the time being. The ruling class is using those issues to divide us and distract us!

If you vote on social or fiscal issues, you are being distracted and manipulated.

Go ahead and flame me. Hate me. Please. BUT in November and in November of 2016, please listen to yourself and say, "Fuck AC he's an asshole! But I WILL NOT BE MANIPULATED BY THE RULING CLASS!"

And IF abortion IS really all that you live for, please, go ahead and vote with your heart.

All I'm saying is that we're being manipulated for purposes that I don't understand - yes, I AM coming across as a kook and no, I will NOT use the naysayers of NSA spying years ago as an example on how I "could" be right.

Just look for yourselfs - and I want to be labeled a kook because then the security services will - sort of - ignore me.

By any chance, does anyone have a reading list for those that fought the Stazi?

Re:NO, no no! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083437)

Cue American Civil War II

Although that's rather unfair, it should be called USA civil war ... not that there's anything civil about it ...

Re:NO, no no! (2)

ebh (116526) | about 9 months ago | (#46083785)

Who would fight whom?

That's a serious question. What two (or more) large groups of Americans would organize themselves into armies of any respectable amount of strength?

Anyone trying to fight a loyal US military would get squashed faster than you can say "daisy cutter", I don't care how many M-16s and RPGs you have in your basement bunker. Maybe mutiny, turning the US Army into God's Army? Or how about Walmart and Monsanto *really* putting the competition out of business?

The states that keep threatening secession: Would we go to war to keep them, or just tell them not to let the door hit 'em where the Lord split 'em?

What's most likely is that the next civil war will be manufactured by the people selling arms to both sides.

Re:NO, no no! (2)

rogoshen1 (2922505) | about 9 months ago | (#46084007)

I think you overestimate the US military's ability to turn out ruthless, cold blood killers (stow the cynicism here, there's obviously a few cases where a couple of bad actors have done terrible things, but that's not the norm.) I seriously, seriously doubt soldiers would follow orders that result in the slaughter (and it would be slaughter) of thousands of Americans.
Also, look how much trouble we had policing and 'holding' Iraq, a much smaller country (in terms of both population and geographical area.). Realistically the military would get spread too thin, supply lines would get cut, and yeah... done.

Re:Wait, WTF? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083309)

Anyone with an Internet connection is capable of 'enabling child porn'.

True, but the crime isn't being capable of enabling child porn is it?

The person in question was, knowingly, providing services to child pornographers.

Re:Wait, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083379)

Can you prove that? The whole purpose of Tor is anonymity of users and data. How can you prove that he knew what was going through his email service? That defies the point of secure email.

Re:Wait, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083563)

They collected the TOR e-mail account when they arrested a recipient of the CP and used that evidence to get a warrant for the TOR e-mail account of the sender.

Re:Wait, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083747)

They collected the TOR e-mail account when they arrested a recipient of the CP and used that evidence to get a warrant for the TOR e-mail account of the sender.

Which has what to do with arresting the guy who runs the tormail service?
It sounds like you're saying: User A and User B send illegal stuff back and forth over SysOp X's anonymized network. Therefore SysOp X knows about all of the content of the Users' activity and should be arrested.

Huh?

Re: Wait, WTF? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083315)

"capable of doing" and "doing" are two entirely different things.

Re:Wait, WTF? (4, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | about 9 months ago | (#46083317)

Well, the Feds needed another backdoor. That Fourth Amendment thing really gets in the way of building up an impressive arrest record and getting promoted. You can't play the terrorism card *all* the time. People might catch on.

Re:Wait, WTF? (1)

Moheeheeko (1682914) | about 9 months ago | (#46083389)

This seems to be the internet equivalent of SWAT storming into someones house and justifying it by tossing a bag of coke on the floor, claiming they "found" it.

Re:Wait, WTF? (5, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | about 9 months ago | (#46083417)

Spiro Agnew must be cackling in his grave.

Same for John Edgar Hoover.

If you're not on their list, it only means they haven't got around to you yet.

everyone is guilty of something, sooner or later

Re:Wait, WTF? (0, Flamebait)

geekoid (135745) | about 9 months ago | (#46083561)

No, that's not true. You should look closer at the case. OTOH, facts have never been a route to +5 on /.

Re:Wait, WTF? (5, Insightful)

bill_mcgonigle (4333) | about 9 months ago | (#46083789)

So, here's the rub:

When evaluating a hosting company of some flavor, you also have to know if they are hosting anything that could be interpreted as permitting its services to be used for child porn, terrorism, drug talk, insider trading, prostitution, seditious speech, pornography, hate speech, sins against the Father, sins against the President, or campaign finance.

If so, don't depend on that service for any privacy.

Basically, if there's a US nexus, you cannot hire a hosting company and expect any privacy.

The terrorists hate us for our freedoms. Go shopping.

Re:Wait, WTF? (2)

Mister Liberty (769145) | about 9 months ago | (#46084225)

My answer:
Ready, Aim, Fire.
In short: where's all those guns now that you need 'em?

The government = zombies (3, Insightful)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | about 9 months ago | (#46082963)

In those zombie movies, no matter how well the humans are barricaded in a place, eventually the slow-witted zombies will always break in. They have all the numbers and time required.

Re:The government = zombies (2)

dougmc (70836) | about 9 months ago | (#46083113)

I'm not sure your analogy really works here.

If the humans were well baricaded in a place and they remained safe there from the zombies ever after ... it wouldn't be a very entertaining movie.

Re:The government = zombies (1)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | about 9 months ago | (#46083217)

I mean no matter how innovative or cunning the group of humans is in trying to protect themselves, they can at best hope to stay one step ahead of the zombies

Re:The government = zombies (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 9 months ago | (#46083589)

No. People in Zombie movies are stupid, and make non-sensible decisions., It's the only way for Zombies to be a threat. Anyone who thinks for a minute can avoid zombies.

Re:The government = zombies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083931)

I'm not sure your analogy really works here.

If the humans were well baricaded in a place and they remained safe there from the zombies ever after ... it wouldn't be a very entertaining movie.

It could be a very entertaining movie; but it wouldn't be a zombie movie.

Child porn, think of the children, blah blah blah (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46082991)

The owner was arrested for 'enabling child porn,' ...

The FBI that cried Wolf. Or the security service that cried wolf -would be more apt.

Let's take a step back here. Is child porn really that big of a problem?

Even the media - which loves to sensationalize the littlest thing - hasn't been harping on this. And when I google, I haven't gotten past the folks who are trying to ban online porn outright to get any decent stats and the real problem.

What I'm trying to say, is that this child porn consumption, "crisis" or whatever the word is to get people's emotions up and their rational thinking down, is a bogeyman created by the media for rating and is now being exploited by the spy and security services for carte blanche monitoring.

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (2)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 9 months ago | (#46083069)

What kind of pron is it? A girl of 17 years, 364 days, looking "provocative"? I better check the pics on my computer. Somewhere I probably have one of my young daughter eating a pickle or something. Those perverts get off on anything. Does it matter if the pickle is half sour or full sour?

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (1)

atomicxblue (1077017) | about 9 months ago | (#46083161)

I think that would only apply to gerkins..

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083165)

My mom took a picture of my two brothers and me bathing naked in a tub (ages 6-8 y.o.). You can see our baby junk and everything. Was she a child pornographer?

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (1)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 9 months ago | (#46083279)

Of course. Never mind that she was probably a great mom. In this day and age she'd probably be sent to prison (possibly with a reduced sentence because she's a women) and CPS would have abducted you and your brother. Be grateful you weren't born later.

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083297)

Do you have any pictures of her eating a banana? Or maybe a Popsicle? Even better: a Creamsicle. What about a corn dog? Or just holding a pair of grapefruits?

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (4, Insightful)

Goaway (82658) | about 9 months ago | (#46083551)

What kind of pron is it? A girl of 17 years, 364 days, looking "provocative"?

No. Next question?

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 9 months ago | (#46083601)

It matters if you are shoving the pickle up her ass.

Now do you see the difference?

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (1)

davester666 (731373) | about 9 months ago | (#46083657)

Great. Now I can't get the image of sweet & sour pickle child porn out of my head.

Zeno's consent (1)

epine (68316) | about 9 months ago | (#46084095)

A girl of 17 years, 364 days, looking "provocative"?

The original formulation of Zeno's paradoxes concerned hair-splitting the age of consent, but posterity abstracted the quivering quibbling to better suit the Victoria era.

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083271)

Let's take a step back here. Is child porn really that big of a problem?

Yes it is. If you have to ask then you just don't get what CP is or does to tens of thousands of young children every year.

BUT

Mentioning the words "child porn" or "terrorist" or any one of those constitutional rights killing buzzwords should not mean that a judge grants any law enforcement agency carte blanche to do as they please.

They still need to have some kind of evidence to justify getting a subpoena or a warrant. The judges are complicit in the degradation of our constitutional rights just by giving LEAs a wink and a rubber stamp of approval. Part of the court's responsibilities is to keep LEAs in check.

Re:Child porn, think of the children, blah blah bl (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083819)

Let's take a step back here. Is child porn really that big of a problem?

Yes it is. If you have to ask then you just don't get what CP is or does to tens of thousands of young children every year.

BUT

Which is what the parent post you responded to is asking -- where did you get your "tens of thousands" number? When do we have a practical conversation about the scale of actual harm done and the ins/outs of the various possible methods to reduce that harm? 9/11 was a horrible event by any account -- have the various actions taken by our government in response to that mass-murdering of 3000 people been consistent with preventing what made that day so horrible in the first place?

Also this: (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46082993)

They FBI also has Slashdot's username and password database, which explains the increasingly poor quality of posts.

And nothing illegal was ever sent.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46082999)

..from a gmail address, or what?

notwithstanding, they doubtless have access to the entire gmail dbase anyway.

Re:And nothing illegal was ever sent.. (1)

MXPS (1091249) | about 9 months ago | (#46083089)

I'm sure they do, just not legally of course.

Re:And nothing illegal was ever sent.. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083125)

Just get the secret rubberstamp court to retroactively make it legal. Problem solved.

everyone imagining you are not on 'the list'... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083007)

please raise your mouse... fair enough? with 100s of millions of unsuspecting unchosens being counted over & over how can we lose? like becoming accustomed to a festering boil? one possible way; http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=scott%20olsen&sm=3 consider ourselves in relation to one another & our good spirits... socially interact as though the moms are watching too because they are

we must continue to pretend to be won (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083051)

or one of the chosens? pretense is the key do not look back

Tor is a honeypot (2)

ebno-10db (1459097) | about 9 months ago | (#46083011)

I don't know if it was designed for that purpose, but in practice Tor is a honeypot. Encryption too? (though not by design). Maybe it's time to consider steganography more, though it has its limits in terms of bandwidth, and if encryption isn't widely used, steganography certainly won't be.

Re:Tor is a honeypot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083157)

The best use I have for Tor right now is getting around Slashdot's stupid posting limitations, that make it impossible to have a conversation or a debate on more than one article at a time.

Re:Tor is a honeypot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083303)

Umm, any free proxy will work for that as I raged about a few nights ago :)

Re:Tor is a honeypot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083809)

then sign in you twaddle

Just in case you forgot... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083013)

You have NO right to privacy any more. Best you remember that.

Your entire life will be recorded and cataloged for when you run afowl of 'the law' then it will be used to crucify you.

Re:Just in case you forgot... (1)

rogoshen1 (2922505) | about 9 months ago | (#46084047)

goosestepping takes on a whole new meaning.

really? (4, Insightful)

Connie_Lingus (317691) | about 9 months ago | (#46083031)

i don't understand why people think that the FBI and NSA and CIA are just going to stand by and allow criminal activity when informants (no doubt where law enforcement gets 90% of its info) tell them how and where it's happening.

technology may slow them down a bit, but people are foolish if you think your VPN and Tor browser is going to protect you for long *if* a three-letter agency really decides to getya.

Amen Brother! (2)

ClayDowling (629804) | about 9 months ago | (#46083181)

It's like expecting your dog to ignore the roast you left on the counter while you went to work. Sure, it could happen, but there's no reason an intelligent person would expect it to happen.

Re:Amen Brother! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083491)

Hell, my dog didn't ignore the damned pineapple upside down cake I left on the counter for fifteen minutes.

I had to run down the street to Target, and apparently when I placed the cake on the rack to cool it was within striking distance. She (a 75 pound lab mix) has never taken a shot at anything on the counter in the nine years I've had her, even when a pot roast was left there. Came back from the store, and the 1/3rd of the cake that's closest to the edge of the counter looked like somebody had sawed it off.

Re:Amen Brother! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46084197)

so she's developed ruidmentary tool use as well - impressive

Actually, this is very comforting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46084191)

From TFS "the FBI obtained a search warrant for the TorMail account, and then accessed it from the bureau's own copy of data". That nuance is very comforting, that the FBI had to get a search warrant to investigate data they had seized, but didn't have probably cause to search for this particular crime. For all that's fucked up, this is a sign of something still working right.

Promises of anonymity are greatly exagerated (5, Insightful)

ClayDowling (629804) | about 9 months ago | (#46083037)

When you trust a third party, with whom you have no actual connection, to keep your data private, you are pretty much asking to have it compromised. The best encryption and anonymity schemes in the world are useless in the face of a court order or questionable system administration. Did you really think some anonymous person was willing to go to jail for your privacy? You're both silly and naive if you think so.

Re:Promises of anonymity are greatly exagerated (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083169)

When you trust a third party, with whom you have no actual connection, to keep your data private, you are pretty much asking to have it compromised.

Yes. Which raises the question: why do so many people not understand this? It isn't like it's conceptually difficult to understand, or requires advanced university level study or something. It's painfully obvious, yet people constantly act surprised when they make someone else the gatekeeper over their data and communications, and that gatekeeper acts in its own interest instead of theirs.

+1 Insightful (1)

mccrew (62494) | about 9 months ago | (#46083207)

Wish I had some mod points for you today.

Re:+1 Insightful (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 9 months ago | (#46083633)

Because he is a bad pet owner?

Re:Promises of anonymity are greatly exagerated (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083485)

Lavabit was willing to take the sword and went out of business.

Re:Promises of anonymity are greatly exagerated (1)

Dan667 (564390) | about 9 months ago | (#46083769)

That is another way of saying no one cares about your data as much as you do. And I believe after the money has been made off "the cloud" that a new push for building your own safe servers will come. I see it as a cycle from mainframes to PC and cloud back to private servers, etc.

Presumed guilty (4, Insightful)

Dynamoo (527749) | about 9 months ago | (#46083081)

So, are the users of TorMail being presumed guilty because they dared to use a system that the NSA couldn't intercept?

Re:Presumed guilty (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083249)

No they are presumed guilty because their service provider used shared hosting that was also used by CP sites.

Re:Presumed guilty (2)

squiggleslash (241428) | about 9 months ago | (#46083381)

No, that's not exactly what the article says.

The article says the FBI seized the Tormail thingie as part of an investigation into the company that was hosting it - which they were investigating because the company in question was providing hosting services to child pornographers.

This turns out to be a stroke of luck for the FBI, as it means for all subsequent investigations, if something comes up that involves a Tormail email address, they don't need a cooperative ISP to provide them with the contents of the associated mailbox.

And, uh, that's about it. You're not presumed guilty, it's just you made the mistake of using something that the FBI now have complete access to, kinda like if you walked through a street in a crime ridden neighborhood, and the local police had decided to clamp down on crime there by covering the entire area in cops, you'd be "under surveilance" even though the police don't think you've done anything and should probably hope they don't mistake you for someone else or something like that.

Re:Presumed guilty (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083597)

This turns out to be a stroke of luck for the FBI, as it means for all subsequent investigations, if something comes up that involves a Tormail email address, they don't need a cooperative ISP to provide them with the contents of the associated mailbox.

Not only that, but from the sounds of it the FBI needed a warrant to access/use the information they already held. So they applied for one, and it was granted by a court.
From what I can tell, it's all according to due process. The traditional kind, not the modern "think of the terrorists" kind.

Presumed Complicit. (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083741)

See, that's the thing. They weren't providing hosting services SPECIFICALLY to child pornographers. They were providing services to ANYONE. Anyone at all. No questions asked.

Some of those people happened to be child pornographers. The vast majority of them were not.

You're arguing it's reasonable to presume that any user of a service that is ALSO used by criminals should reasonably be treated as suspect? Oh, child. You don't think there's child pornographers on GMail? Using EC2? With Instagram accounts? What service that's open to all ISN'T "a crime ridden neighborhood" in your example?

Re:Presumed Complicit. (1)

PRMan (959735) | about 9 months ago | (#46083839)

I hear AT&T has been enabling this sort of use for over 100 years! Put them away immediately!

Re:Presumed guilty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083793)

Sorry but you just made a huge 'analogy FAIL!', your analogy doesn't work at all because if you are strolling on the street in public view than everyone including the cops has the 'right to surveil' that street...or more precisely you have 0 'expectation of privacy' (visual anyway). TorMail or any 'data hosting service' is more like a warehouse...these actually used to be popular 'back in the day' to house physical paper copies companies needed to keep as 'archives'...they may still exist as not all paper has gone away...so let's say I own a warehouse that allows anyone to store anything they want in it, than someone stores kiddie porn there, than the copies come to 'raid' it claiming I am some how responsible for the kiddie porn...first that can't possibly make any sense, but secondly, no search warrant in the world would grant the FBI the right just to pack up everything & take it with them...or keep it 'indefinitely' so they can look through it at their whim...that's ridiculous...so just because it's easy to make off with digital data doesn't make it 'right'...

Re:Presumed guilty (3, Informative)

sjames (1099) | about 9 months ago | (#46084131)

Legally, they should delete all of the tormail data since it wan't relevant to their search.

Re:Presumed guilty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083479)

No.

So thats why... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083129)

A few weeks ago i went for a hunt, searching through posts about "extra secret mail accounts",
It took me 2 hours to find out about tormail, and finally another 30 minutes to download tails, set it up on a usb stick, reboot and start the torbrowser - just to find out it was dead already.

If only i had known the obvious:
in times like these people use Gmail ON PURPOSE!

Wrong country for hosting (2)

gmuslera (3436) | about 9 months ago | (#46083141)

If you care about your privacy or want that your data is still yours, don't host it there, even encryption can be surpassed if you can control the hardware that decrypts it. UK, Australia, Israel, and others allies in the intelligence operations should be avoided too. And is not just for privacy paranoids only, companies should be worried too [slashdot.org] , and is not limited to just IP, managing data that can get you sued if disclosed will make you liable.

Wonder what countries with strong citizens privacy laws will require to any company that want to work there.

Re:Wrong country for hosting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083349)

If you care about your privacy, meet outdoors and talk face to face.

ANY online service that claims to be private is extremely dangerous, because it will lead you to say incriminating things, and there's really no such thing as a guarantee of privacy in any digital medium.

Re:Wrong country for hosting (1)

bob_super (3391281) | about 9 months ago | (#46083487)

Just go in a gay porn chatroom, that will reduce the odds of someone monitoring live in they have the wrong supervisor.
The signal-to-noise ratio will be better than steganography anyway.

Daft (1)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about 9 months ago | (#46083189)

You have to be daft to consider email over the public internet to be private. It never has been and never will be.

Wrong technology to use in carrying out any kind of sensitive communications of any sort.

Re:Daft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083333)

Okay then, what is the right technology for carrying out any kind of sensitive communications of any sort?

Re:Daft (5, Funny)

bob_super (3391281) | about 9 months ago | (#46083423)

Phone lines, but only if you speak in Navajo.

Re:Daft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083433)

Telepathy, but only in a lead-shielded underground chamber.

Re:Daft (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083489)

PGP with keys exchanged at a signing party, then applied to said emails?

Re:Daft (1)

lister king of smeg (2481612) | about 9 months ago | (#46083755)

PGP with keys exchanged at a signing party, then applied to said emails?

I would love to do that but try and convince the every none geek to take the five minutes to install PGP and set up Pidgin and Thunderbird...
Yes it is dead simple to do,
Yes it would lock the NSA out tomorrow.
Yes it is free.

The problem is normal people are lazy apathetic, stupid and slaves of habbit and unwilling to help themselves if it means one more click before they click send it is to much for them.

If they have nothing to hide... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083263)

Then why don't they give US access to all of THEIR emails? I mean, it's all well and good to try to get a specific user's email account when you've got a case and a warrant, but to simply grab everyone's email addresses is just sick. Surely we deserve to read their emails too, if they're going to read all of ours? For that matter, how can we be sure they aren't enabling child porn? Methinks we need someone to watch the watchers, and it might as well be all of us. It's not like international borders matter to them, so I think the entire world should be privy to their info as well.

so... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083307)

why aren't they arresting all of google? I am sure a picture of a child was sent using gmail at some point int time.

Well there's your problem. (1)

goodmanj (234846) | about 9 months ago | (#46083341)

"the TorMail e-mail server"

The server. Singular. Did TorMail's creators and users skip class the day they explained how Tor worked?

Welcome to the 20th century. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083375)

Dude if your adversary is the government, any government, you might as well assume you are compromised already.
Using Tor is just a flag to prioritize your communications for more scrutiny, and always has been.

Speeding is what the cops use to be able to pull over and arrest anybody.

But...but.... (1)

MobSwatter (2884921) | about 9 months ago | (#46083383)

What does all that have to do with national security?

Re:But...but.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083757)

You have the wrong TLA. The FBI investigates crime.

Are you kidding me? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 9 months ago | (#46083407)

We have kidnappers, serial killers, rapist, and people making it and our biggest priority is fucking tor!?..

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