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Congressmen Say Clapper Lied To Congress, Ask Obama To Remove Him

timothy posted about 7 months ago | from the put-your-hands-together dept.

Government 383

Trailrunner7 writes "A group of six Congressmen have asked President Barack Obama to remove James Clapper as director of national intelligence as a result of his misstatements to Congress about the NSA's dragnet data-collection programs. The group, led by Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), said that Clapper's role as DNI 'is incompatible with the goal of restoring trust in our security programs.' Clapper is the former head of the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency and has been DNI since 2010. In their letter to Obama, the group of Congressmen calling for his ouster said that he lied to Congress and should no longer be in office. 'The continued role of James Clapper as Director of National Intelligence is incompatible with the goal of restoring trust in our security programs and ensuring the highest level of transparency. Director Clapper continues to hold his position despite lying to Congress, under oath, about the existence of bulk data collection programs in March 2013. Asking Director Clapper, and other federal intelligence officials who misrepresented programs to Congress and the courts, to report to you on needed reforms and the future role of government surveillance is not a credible solution,' the letter from Issa, Ted Poe, Paul Broun, Doug Collins, Walter Jones and Alan Grayson says." "Misstatement," of course, being the favorite euphemism for "lie."

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Calling all pudge (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090391)

He's our best lie detector

Get Ready (5, Insightful)

The_Star_Child (2660919) | about 7 months ago | (#46090407)

Get ready for the dirt to be spilled on Darrell Issa, Ted Poe, Paul Broun, Doug Collins, Walter Jones and Alan Grayson. What's the over/under on child porn?

Re: Get Ready (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090549)

This will just be another example of how de-fanged Congress has become. By all rights clapper should be removed. He lied under oath. Period. But the imperial presidency (which started under Bush and has only grown stronger under Obama) can and will ignore this.

Re: Get Ready (5, Insightful)

tripleevenfall (1990004) | about 7 months ago | (#46090643)

if Holder still has his job after all the scandal and corruption, the chances a crony holding a key office and overseeing the surveillance program is canned for doing exactly what the emperor says? Zero point zero.

lol Bush.Lincoln, Roosevelt. Obama unilaterally (4, Insightful)

raymorris (2726007) | about 7 months ago | (#46090787)

> But the imperial presidency (which started under Bush and has only grown stronger under Obama)

ROTFL. Bush Jr was a slightly weaker than average president. If you want to see an imperial presidency, look at Roosevelt, Lincoln or Kennedy. Congress didn't authorize the civil war, Lincoln sent the army to destroy the south by his own executive order. Kennedy too sent the armed forces into the south to enforce desegregation, on his own initiative. Bush sought (and received) congressional approval for what his predecessors would have called "routine military exercises".

One thing is new - presidents in the past have left Congress out of the decision making, but the didn't tend to flatly defy Congress, declaring that they have chosen to ignore the law and write their own. Obama's unilateral changes to Obamacare such as delaying the employer mandate for a year is a new kind of imperial presidency. Congress passed the mandate and Obama immediately said "nope, I'm going to ignore the law and declare my own law instead." I don't think even Roosevelt had done that.

Re:lol Bush.Lincoln, Roosevelt. Obama unilaterally (5, Interesting)

CrimsonAvenger (580665) | about 7 months ago | (#46090921)

Congress passed the mandate and Obama immediately said "nope, I'm going to ignore the law and declare my own law instead." I don't think even Roosevelt had done that.

Right after Pearl Harbor, Congress passed declarations of war against Germany and Japan (in response to their declarations of war against us). At that point Roosevelt told Congress that they should go into Recess until the War was over.

Luckily for all of us, they told him to pound sand.

Re:Get Ready (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090581)

so the pathological liars of the right wing are going after some one who "misstated" something? isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?

Re:Get Ready (1)

Nemesisghost (1720424) | about 7 months ago | (#46090767)

The Right Wingers are at least smart enough to either not lie under oath or not get caught doing so. Or at least since Nixon. Or at least not that anybody has really noticed. Or...oh, whatever, they are both crooked.

No, they're using this to attack the D's (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46091007)

This isn't about Clapper lying, it's about a government official under the Obama administration lying.

Re:Get Ready (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090845)

Alan Grayson is a Democrat. Nice try though.

Re:Get Ready (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090973)

so the pathological liars of the right wing are going after some one who "misstated" something? isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?

I don't know whether to think your visible dislike of any view other than yours poisons your statement, or to simply be impressed that even with your judgement so clouded that you're still able to recognize the kettle-blackness of the side you appear to agree with.

Re:Get Ready (1)

sandytaru (1158959) | about 7 months ago | (#46090595)

Dunno about CP but Paul Broun is my congress critter and he's currently giving away an AK-15 to promote gun rights. I entered the drawing. Not that I particularly want it, but I'd rather I have it where I know I can stick it in a gun safe than have someone else in my neighborhood have it.

Re:Get Ready (4, Funny)

Big Hairy Ian (1155547) | about 7 months ago | (#46090619)

AK-15??? Are you sure?

Re:Get Ready (5, Funny)

drainbramage (588291) | about 7 months ago | (#46090647)

Yeah, the AK-15 is way more reliable than the AR-74 and has more penetration.
Everyone knows that, just ask Louis Armstrong (the first man on the moon).

Re:Get Ready (4, Funny)

PolygamousRanchKid (1290638) | about 7 months ago | (#46090785)

Actually, I prefer my Heckler & Koch Brothers MP7, which can penetrate the body armor of Big Oil enemies and also be used for fracking.

It was used by James Earl Ray Jones, who shot MLK and starred in "Conan, the Barbarian" with Lou Ferrigno.

just googlred AK15 (2)

rossdee (243626) | about 7 months ago | (#46090741)

It seems to be using the Klashnikov action, but chambered for 5.56 round, and takes AR15 magazines.

Either that, or someone got AK47 and AR15 mixed up.

Re:just googlred AK15 (1)

Big Hairy Ian (1155547) | about 7 months ago | (#46090765)

Figured either Ak47, AK74 or AK101 (AK74 that takes NATO rounds)

Re:Get Ready (0)

sycodon (149926) | about 7 months ago | (#46090895)

Holy Hell.

Face palm!

Re:Get Ready (-1, Flamebait)

Libertarian_Geek (691416) | about 7 months ago | (#46090947)

Dunno about CP but Paul Broun is my congress critter and he's currently giving away an AK-15 to promote gun rights. I entered the drawing. Not that I particularly want it, but I'd rather I have it where I know I can stick it in a gun safe than have someone else in my neighborhood have it.

Typical Authoritarian who self-labels as "Liberal".

"I can have it, but you can't be trusted with it" mentality is evident in your post.
Reference to an "AK-15": shows a lack of understanding the facts by inadvertently combining the AR-15 and AK-47 names into one.
Sounds like the California politician who says things like "30 Clip Magazines"

Re:Get Ready (5, Insightful)

fatphil (181876) | about 7 months ago | (#46090617)

+1 Insightful (got'em, but prefer to reply...)

I think with what we know about the NSA being able to inject malware onto targets' systems, there's always plausible deniability about anything found on home machines. "The NSA put it there" is now unfalsifiable, and always can be used to plant reasonable doubt. Means, motive, what else do you need?

Re:Get Ready (-1, Troll)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#46090907)

When it comes time to defend Snowden everyone claims that there are other people taking documents, and if he didn't "blow the whistle," then someone else would, so nothing should be done to him, and it would have happened anyway. When it comes time for a conspiracy theory to denigrate the NSA everyone claims the most enormous conspiracy contrary to the law and values of the country would be possible and nobody would come forward to blow the whistle. Both of those positions can't really be true simultaneously, and they are in fact almost certainly essentially backwards.

Well, 9/11 is long past us, and the 9/11 "truthers" have mostly left or gone silent,* we are now in the age of the "NSA truther." Is that "progress" or what?

*Except you, and you know who you are.

Re:Get Ready (4, Interesting)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#46090635)

Get ready for the dirt to be spilled on Darrell Issa, Ted Poe, Paul Broun, Doug Collins, Walter Jones and Alan Grayson. What's the over/under on child porn?

No, it won't be them. The "dirt," for anyone paying attention, belongs to Wyden. [commentarymagazine.com]

Re:Get Ready (1)

GameboyRMH (1153867) | about 7 months ago | (#46090875)

But did Wyden actually know about PRISM?

http://www.popsci.com/technolo... [popsci.com]

Re:Get Ready (1)

cold fjord (826450) | about 7 months ago | (#46090927)

I don't think there is any doubt. He is on the Intelligence committee.

Re:Get Ready (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090675)

I'd be careful who you get behind in this ordeal.

Issa, for one, is a self serving slimeball and will say anything if it thinks it benefits him. He's only attacking the NSA because he thinks he can win points against his Democratic rivals. If his party was in control of the president's office you'd not hear a peep out of him.

Warrantless domestic wiretapping (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090705)

Isn't Darrel Issa the arsonist Car theif who suppressed congressional testimony on Warrantless domestic wiretapping and dismissed the Bush admins erasure of E-mails on PlameGate as a simple software glitch? Why yes, yes he is.

While I have my doubts about Clapper, it really doesn't help the cause when you put a non-credible person at the front. Issa will say or do anything that benefits him, and that's not invective, it's documented fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D... [wikipedia.org]

http://www.perrspectives.com/b... [perrspectives.com]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/... [dailykos.com]

Re:Get Ready (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090901)

There must be something wrong with this letter. I mean, Wyden, Paul and Amash aren't signatories - that should tell you something.

Re:Get Ready (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090943)

Please. Issa was the chief backer of SOPA and the chief of the House Science Committee responsible for gutting NASA and the NSF. The sooner he's gone the better.

Sadly (5, Insightful)

jcrb (187104) | about 7 months ago | (#46090411)

It's not a "lie" if they aren't convicted, and even then for most people it will still be a "misstatement".

The win at all costs nature that American politics have turned into as of late have made seeing just how blatant a lie you can get away with part of the game rather than something to be avoided.

Asking nicely for his removal will accomplish nothing at all. Either go for conviction or don't bother. Saying "he's not nice and we don't like him anymore" is not going do anything other than cause the administration to chuckle.

Re:Sadly (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090469)

It's not a "lie" if they aren't convicted, and even then for most people it will still be a "misstatement".

Great, perhaps his language usage will improve if we start calling "decapitation" for "physical encouragement".

Re:Sadly (5, Insightful)

Jawnn (445279) | about 7 months ago | (#46090481)

Yep. That our Congress has lacked the will to call this man on the crimes he has plainly committed is a sign that our government is beginning to fail. We could debate about when that failure really began, but when the head of a rogue agency is allowed to metaphorically extend his middle finger to the body of elected officials charged with the oversight of him and his agency, that failure is well established.

Re:Sadly (2)

v1 (525388) | about 7 months ago | (#46090489)

I thought lying to congress was a felony or something? Maybe that's why they're avoiding the L-word?

Re:Sadly (4, Insightful)

Pi1grim (1956208) | about 7 months ago | (#46090639)

Maybe they should have avoided lying in the first place instead of avoiding to call it what it is now?

Re:Sadly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090817)

The problem is that he isn't a random no-name and it isn't the first time he has spoken to the congress.
Work with people long enough and eventually you end up being friends. The people of the congress doesn't want Clapper in jail, they are just trying to save face without doing anything that actually hurts him.

Re:Sadly (3)

dkleinsc (563838) | about 7 months ago | (#46090913)

It is. Also, if you don't answer questions the way Congress wants you to, you can get yourself into serious trouble, as the (now) late Pete Seeger [peteseeger.net] found out.

Re:Sadly (3, Insightful)

cfulton (543949) | about 7 months ago | (#46091015)

And Pete Seeger had the balls to stand up for what he believed and did not lie or change his story. Politicians and bureaucrats lie instinctively, but will happily repudiate themselves at a later date if it keeps them in power.

Re:Sadly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090751)

Setting aside the current accusation regarding lying to Congress, what are all these crimes "he has plainly committed"? I keep seeing many people making references to all these obvious committed crimes, but I'm having trouble seeing them. Waiving and flailing your arms crying "4th Amendment" isn't very convincing, or at least, it would be nice if one could provide a little more legal justification. Could anyone provide some legal definitions (and, no, crying about "obvious bribed judges" doesn't win you many debate points here)?

Re:Sadly (2)

0123456 (636235) | about 7 months ago | (#46090863)

Yep. That our Congress has lacked the will to call this man on the crimes he has plainly committed is a sign that our government is beginning to fail.

BEGINNING to fail?

Haven't you been watching the news for the last century or so?

Re:Sadly (1, Insightful)

Bartles (1198017) | about 7 months ago | (#46090951)

They haven't lacked the will. Are you saying that Issa wouldn't do it tomorrow if he could? It's that Democrats and the media, so far are unwilling to cast blame for any of the various scandals including this one because the blame lies on their side. They are willing to say how bad it is, and then they shrug their shoulders and do it again with the next one. Contrast with the Bush era when they were too willing to cast blame, even when it was unwarranted.

Re:Sadly (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090573)

It's not a lie until cold fjord tells us its a lie.

Re:Sadly (1)

poetmatt (793785) | about 7 months ago | (#46090597)

This is wrong. Considering Issa is one of the people actually pushing back against the NSA, suing without a solid foundation/way to prove it's solidly outside of the realm of law as only that information is starting to trickle out now (initial leaks did not do this), the POTUS will tear him apart if he does some bullshit/shaky lawsuit that even the judges will be compelled to dismiss.

It sucks, but both laws need to reformed AND people need to be held accountable. You can't do one without the other.

That Palin Thing says: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090425)

"How's that 'hopey-changey' stuff workin' out for ya?"

:: winks ::

:: snaps gum ::

Re:That Palin Thing says: (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090513)

FYI: Your cut-and-paste attempts at trying to sound clever really don't come off that way when you post the same exact thing all the time.

Re:That Palin Thing says: (2)

Noughmad (1044096) | about 7 months ago | (#46090551)

Well, Chang'e was not only made in China, but is currently about 400.000 km away and appears stuck. I doubt things are going much better for Hop'e.

The basic rules. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090429)

Lying to congress, under oath, shouldn't require further action beyond proving the fact and placing the person in prison.

Re:The basic rules. (5, Informative)

i kan reed (749298) | about 7 months ago | (#46090451)

Unfortunately, "lying to congress" has some protection from that kind of punishment to prevent congress from using congressional inquiry as a lazy version of a bill of attainder.

Time to involve the public prosecutor? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090435)

At least, I always thought that lying under oath was a crime, but perhaps this does not apply to people in certain socioeconomic circles.

euphemism for "lie" (5, Funny)

xxxJonBoyxxx (565205) | about 7 months ago | (#46090439)

>> "Misstatement," of course, being the favorite euphemism for "lie."

I though it was, "If you like your X, you can keep your X." :)

Re:euphemism for "lie" (1)

drainbramage (588291) | about 7 months ago | (#46090655)

Exactly!
What he meant to say was "If you like your privacy, you can keep your privacy."

Re:euphemism for "lie" (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090663)

I though it was, "If you like your X, you can keep your X." :)

"Director Clapper, if you like your job, you can keep your job."

Sadly, the statement is true for some values of X.

Re:euphemism for "lie" (1)

wasteoid (1897370) | about 7 months ago | (#46091035)

Can't keep your X in prison; they force that into an O.

Sounds like (1)

Chrisq (894406) | about 7 months ago | (#46090445)

Clapper's in the crapper.

*Congress* is worried about liars???? (2)

inode_buddha (576844) | about 7 months ago | (#46090453)

*Congress* is worried about liars???? Who the hell do they think they are? Pot, meet kettle. Congressmen themselves like like dogs as a matter of course, but they will be all upset if anyone lies to them??? Yeah, right.

Re:*Congress* is worried about liars???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090465)

The concept of being "under oath" seems to escape you. Either that, or you are pretending to be a retard... I'm not sure which is worse.

Re:*Congress* is worried about liars???? (1)

fatphil (181876) | about 7 months ago | (#46090763)

Maybe it's time for a witch-hunt again?

However, maybe this time it's shouldn't be one that is patently embarassing in retrospect 60 years later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anticommunist_Literature_1950s.png

UNESCO? Education, science and culture - those infamous enemies of the US!

Impeachment (5, Insightful)

Teancum (67324) | about 7 months ago | (#46090455)

Congress has the authority to remove people from positions in the federal government on their own. Why don't they use it?

And no, it doesn't need to be an impeachment of the President, it can be any officer or person holding a position of trust in the U.S. government. Dozens of impeachment bills are presented every year in Congress, where they seldom get any sort of attention even when they pass as it is usually for obscure offices or minor judges. if these congressmen were serious, they would just start the process and hold that over the head of President Obama to act before they do.

It just seems that in this case talk is cheap, as if filing a bill is something not in their authority.

Re:Impeachment (5, Informative)

hoyle (89469) | about 7 months ago | (#46090467)

Not only that, isn't lying under oath to congress a criminal offense? If he lied, why don't they charge him?

Re:Impeachment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090533)

Just like they did to Holder and nothing happened?

Notice a pattern here with this administration lying to Congress?

Re:Impeachment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090555)

On top of that removing the 'head' will not kill the body in this case.

To get serious traction/results they will need a switch around/out of major chunks of the apparatus.

Sometimes to fix an org you need to 'cut it to the bone'. Then re-grow the organs as they say in management circles.

What really twists me up is the fact that they are arguing it is 'legal'. Who gives a damn. There are many legal things that we can do that you shouldnt. What is the *right* thing to do? That is blindingly obvious. But for some reason they want to hold onto this 'power'.

Re:Impeachment (3, Insightful)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 7 months ago | (#46090499)

Congress has the authority to remove people from positions in the federal government on their own. Why don't they use it?

Because the way they see it, if they lay it on the President's shoulders, come election time they can tell their constituents "Hey, we tried to do something, see? Obama obviously hates America."

Re:Impeachment (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090599)

That's a nice theory. However, Alan Grayson is a Democrat...

Re:Impeachment (2)

isa-kuruption (317695) | about 7 months ago | (#46090571)

Probably because bi-partisanship in Congress is non-existent... and whenever one party proposes a bill/amendment/impeachment/takeout menu, it's immediately rejected by the other party. So the only way for anyone to do anything is to put it on the shoulders of the *others* in a big PR stunt-type action that makes the 24 hour news cycle giddy.

Re:Impeachment (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090659)

Issa is full of a lot of talk, grandstanding in an attempt to discredit those he doesn't like. This is about public opinion and support for Republicans, Issa doesn't really care about removing Clapper.

A positive step (5, Insightful)

SirGarlon (845873) | about 7 months ago | (#46090457)

People have been complaining forever about Congress doing nothing about the NSA's egregious overreach. This is just a gesture, but it's a gesture in the right direction.

Best case, Obama ignores the letter, then Congress gets royally pissed off and does something with more teeth.

flying out of windows rats in their mouths butts.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090459)

on fire... hoping to use the rats as fuel for the trip ---- the gargoyle chronicles

It's a good start (2)

TheNastyInThePasty (2382648) | about 7 months ago | (#46090461)

It's a good start, although I'd like "Removed from his position" to be replaced with "Prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."

More people need to be shitcanned over this but, really, the fact that these programs are event "arguably" legal is the major issue here. The laws that allow the NSA to snoop on all of us need to be repealed first and foremost.

Re:It's a good start (1)

CanHasDIY (1672858) | about 7 months ago | (#46090527)

More people need to be shitcanned over this but, really, the fact that these programs are event "arguably" legal is the major issue here. The laws that allow the NSA to snoop on all of us need to be repealed first and foremost.

Our country needs a 'legal audit' - basically, sit two (non-politically-affiliated, but well versed in Constitutional law) people down with red pens, have them go over every single statute in the USC, and determine if it's Constitutional or not.

There will be obvious "this is OK" and "this is unconstitutional" stuff, and anything that seems like a grey area can be bookmarked for further scrutiny and discussion.

Re:It's a good start (4, Funny)

nschubach (922175) | about 7 months ago | (#46090575)

I'm sure it will go over just as well as the federal reserve audit...

Re:It's a good start (1)

TheNastyInThePasty (2382648) | about 7 months ago | (#46090737)

That's how the courts are supposed to work. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it does not.

Re: It's a good start (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090983)

No, how about replacing "Removed from his position" replaced with "Rendered Stateless and given a free one-way trip to Guantanamo Bay" and maybe do the same to "Emperor Alexander".

welcome to neoliberalism (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090463)

Power occupies a vacuum.

If you don't run government in favour of the people, i.e. pre-Reaganite social democracy, it will end up being run in favour of minority special interests, IOW the businessmen who benefit from massive data collection.

Republican hypocrites (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090475)

So they setup the program in 2006 then start blaming democrats for the mess they put into place.

How's that Patriot Act working out for you?

Re:Republican hypocrites (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090505)

About the same as for all the fucking democrats who co-authored and supported the bill.

Stop being a useless fuck and actually learn something. Neither party is on your side here.

Barry Bonds (5, Insightful)

ebonum (830686) | about 7 months ago | (#46090509)

I will remind you that Barry Bonds went to jail for lying to Congress. They didn't hesitate to throw him in jail.

Either throw Clapper in jail or rewrite the laws to reflect reality: If you are powerful enough and have the full support of the current administration, you are immune from prosecution.

And while you are at it, take that stupid blindfold off that statute of justice. That is from another world and another time. It has no relevance today.

Re:Barry Bonds (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090691)

I will remind you that Barry Bonds went to jail for lying to Congress.

Wait, what? Barry Bonds was convicted of obstruction of justice in relation to his grand jury testimony in 2003 and was sentenced to house arrest & probation.
No lying (perjury), no Congress, and no jail. You managed to get just about every fact wrong.

Re:Barry Bonds (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090743)

And while you are at it, take that stupid blindfold off that statute of justice. That is from another world and another time. It has no relevance today.

You do not understand what it means, I am not surprised.

"Justice is blind" means that the law does not care who is arguing each side of a case, only the nature of the evidence and arguments matter. The blindfold is meant to hide the identities of the prosecution and defense so that justice is not swayed by their identity or rank.

Blind justice would see Clapper impeached for lying under oath. Yet it would also see over half the elected officials and government employees imprisoned for violations of the constitution and crimes against the populace. No one in the federal government is willing to start the necessary inquisition to clean it out, those who talk of justice are comfortable in the fact that they will be outvoted at all times.

Judge clapper by the same laws as snowden (4, Insightful)

sl4shd0rk (755837) | about 7 months ago | (#46090539)

If a regular joe lied to congress, under oath, they'd send his ass up the river on a multitude of charges running the gamut from conspiracy to perjury to treason. Clapper should be judged by the same laws. Let a jury decide.

You lied (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090567)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8keZbZL2ero ... to cause epistemological problems of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.

The Other Five Party/Districts (5, Informative)

Bob9113 (14996) | about 7 months ago | (#46090673)

Ted Poe (R - TX), Paul Broun (R - GA), Doug Collins (R - GA), Walter Jones (R - NC), Alan Grayson (D - FL)

Good to see they got a Democrat on board. Here's hoping more of all stripe sign on.

Re:The Other Five Party/Districts (1)

Bob the Super Hamste (1152367) | about 7 months ago | (#46090807)

Most of the elected represenititives need a bit of encouragement. Let your member of the US house [house.gov] know you would like them to support theses efforts. Also do the same for your senators [senate.gov] .

Re:The Other Five Party/Districts (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090831)

So, five Republicans and one Democrat from a conservative district making noise about an Obama appointee going into an election year. Also, dog bites man. This, and a lot of other obvious news coming up at 11!

Re:The Other Five Party/Districts (1)

Bartles (1198017) | about 7 months ago | (#46090993)

You're right. This unwarranted persecution of Clapper is so unfair. The question you should be asking is why only one Democrat?

Re:The Other Five Party/Districts (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46091001)

Actually, they need to start prosecuting Republican liars in Congress, then I'll believe them.

Grayson is just giving them cover, but it's a phony one.

They don't actually care about truth or accuracy. or they'd fucking clean their own House.

Perjury? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090711)

Yes, in Mother Amerika you say "Mis-spoke" when you lie to your Congress. If you don't, people say the "P" word, which means you go jail now.

Lying doesn't matter much here (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090745)

Reading the questions that were asked and the responses he gave, it's pretty hard to believe Clapper didn't understand what was being asked. Personally, I think the concepts of "data" versus "metadata" and "known-to-be US citizens" versus "unknown/haven't checked" were so muddied in his head (and the CIA/NSA generally) that he might have thought he was answering honestly. It reminds me of the days when people emphatically said "Of course the US doesn't torture prisoners"... "for a very special and legally-dubious definition of what constitutes 'torture'". Twist words and definitions long enough and you start believing the new definitions yourself, but that makes it hard to communicate with others. "Oh! By 'any data on US citizens' you meant the normal, English, everyday meaning of the word 'data', not the twisted, something-other-than-metadata meaning we use at the CIA/NSA? And we'll just casually pretend that we don't know if the people we're sweeping up are US citizens or not, even though they probably are given the vast scope of collection."

So, with what we know about the program now, either: 1) the guy was lying intentionally, or 2) he's innocent but incompetent because he didn't understand the nature of the programs that were underway and/or 3) he couldn't correctly communicate with the legislators asking him to explain what was going on in plain language. That's a failure of his duty any way you look at it. Malicious intent or incompetent. Take your pick.

At that kind of level on an important issue, those are grounds for firing regardless of whether he was "lying".

Congressional "Misstatement" (1)

jimbrooking (1909170) | about 7 months ago | (#46090749)

I am a United States [Senator | Representative]. I have far, far too much integrity to be at all influenced by the [countless | untold | several] millions of dollars contributed to my campaign by that [lobbyist | special interest | one percenter | lying pond scum]!

Patriot Act (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090761)

I don't believe any politician who voted for the Patriot Act and claims he didn't know about the domestic spying going on. Were they asleep when the AT&T whistleblower thing happened in 2006? Politician's need to strike down the unconstitutional Patriot Act if they are serious about ending the NSA spying.

Why does this come as a surprise? (1)

Jean Taureau (2195790) | about 7 months ago | (#46090773)

When you pay someone to be sneaky and devious, it should't come as a surprise when it turns out they've been sneaky and devious.

Upon orders of His Majesty (-1)

Eravnrekaree (467752) | about 7 months ago | (#46090841)

When will these thick skulls realize that His Majesty, the emaculate, the all powerful and omnipotent, King Hussein Obama told Clapper to lie, therefore Obama is the root liar? Its the same as with the IRS and Benghazi scandals. Of course realizing this leads to the inevitable conclusion that to protect this country from the Obamination will require impeachment, which the feeble worthless opposition is just too wimpy for. The time for impeachment is now.

Re:Upon orders of His Majesty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090953)

If you impeach Obama you get President Biden. Is that what you want?

Re:Upon orders of His Majesty (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090989)

When will these thick skulls realize that His Majesty, the emaculate, the all powerful and omnipotent, King Hussein Obama told Clapper to lie, therefore Obama is the root liar? Its the same as with the IRS and Benghazi scandals. Of course realizing this leads to the inevitable conclusion that to protect this country from the Obamination will require impeachment, which the feeble worthless opposition is just too wimpy for. The time for impeachment is now.

Benghazi!!!!

Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi!!!!11!!

Re:Upon orders of His Majesty (2)

Bartles (1198017) | about 7 months ago | (#46091003)

The first black President will never be impeached. It does not matter what he does.

Get out (1)

NikeHerc (694644) | about 7 months ago | (#46090915)

Clapper needs to go. Nearly everyone in the U.S. government seems to be lying to the public and it should stop now.

Why Do We Focus on the Politicians (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 7 months ago | (#46090949)

Why is it that we vote in lefties and righties, the devoutly religious and the less religious, and yet they all do the same things when in office? We need a political system where a politician who strays to far from his/her alleged platform is automatically removed from office. We keep focusing on what this or that politician does, but it should be apparent to anybody that the system that continues to produce the same product regardless of the input is the problem.

Clapper in Prison (5, Insightful)

Phoenix666 (184391) | about 7 months ago | (#46090957)

He belongs in prison, along with his deputies that obeyed his orders to violate the Constitution thousands of times. Same goes for Keith Alexander. Obama, too, must be impeached for signing off on all of it. We are at a 200-year break point. Either the American citizenry reasserts its primacy in the democracy and teaches all and sundry again that the law is for everybody, we will lose it all for the next century or two. I would prefer we take those steps now when we still have means to attack the corruption rather than several generations deep into the police state when we will have nothing.

Be careful, this is politics (1)

geekoid (135745) | about 7 months ago | (#46090985)

Be sure to listen to the actual conversation before jumping on headline opinion.

Congressmen Say Clapper Lied To Congress (1)

kn9sli001 (2884913) | about 7 months ago | (#46091025)

He lied to Congress and should no longer be in office. If this is a standard that we held all elected officials to, Capitol Hill would be depopulated tomorrow.

I'm all for it; we need to start punishing perjury (4, Insightful)

GodfatherofSoul (174979) | about 7 months ago | (#46091045)

Alberto Gonzalez flat out lied to Congress and got a week to "correct" his testimony and I was tearing my hair out. Clapper did the same and it's hardly registered in public discourse. If Congress gets lied to their oversight obligations are compromised which is intolerable.

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