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New FreeBSD Book Aimed At Newest Users

timothy posted more than 13 years ago | from the good-to-see dept.

BSD 158

Chris Coleman writes: "Annelise Anderson has written a new FreeBSD book titled "FreeBSD: An Open Source Operating System for Your Personal Computer". The book includes: * installation CD-ROM for the entire system plus many software applications * space requirements, screen shots, and detailed instructions for installing FreeBSD * step-by-step instructions on configuring and running FreeBSD, connecting to the Internet, setting up an internal network, and setting up sound, X Window System (the graphical user interface), and printing." I think the raftload of available books have helped tremendously in making GNU/Linux popular, by first making it possible for non-experts to install it -- with more BSD books, perhaps the same will happen. Fame awaits you if you care to give this book a Slashdot review :)

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There is one book with a devil in it (0, Troll)

gelfling (6534) | more than 13 years ago | (#2110551)

It's called the Bible. This voodoo vegetarian devil cult homo shit is fake and you will roast in hell for it.

and that same book has no hell in it. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2160420)

Find any instance in the bible that describes hell as hot, and says people, their souls, whatever will end up there for punishment.
You cannot because the bible never describes hell this way.

This just in (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2111630)

Recent polls show that 68% of Jews have considered raping and murdering good honest Christians. On a related note, no less than 32% of Jews are filthy liars.

Re:This just in (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2139057)

Hahahaha. Good, honest, and Christians, all in the same sentence. I like that!! Hahahaha!

Really soon now, some one will say... (1)

Depressive Cyborg (242177) | more than 13 years ago | (#2114205)

...that FreeBSD is a mature, stable, organized, reliable and good OS. I think he or she is right.

Dependency check: Life -> needs FreeBSD&Coffee

an opensource os? (3, Insightful)

Stochi (114270) | more than 13 years ago | (#2116628)

why is it that everything has to be billed as opensource? like that's really a selling point? i mean sure, there are some people that are just looking into the opensource thing, but it makes it seem as though that's the only reason you might want to run FreeBSD. never mind the fact that it's stable, fast, and has many of the popular apps that linux does. plus it includes linux emulation so that you can run native linux apps under FreeBSD. why not have a title that shows this in addition to it's being opensource? "FreeBSD: The opensource OS for your PC that's fast, versatile, and dependable". Sounds much more catchy to me.

Re:an opensource os? (2)

glitch! (57276) | more than 13 years ago | (#2115990)

why is it that everything has to be billed as opensource? like that's really a selling point?

It's part of being Buzzword Compliance.
In past years, the buzzwords have been:

  • Compatible (eg, IBM PC compatible)
  • User-Friendly (whatever that really means)
  • Upgradeable (eg, 16-bit ISA M/B has CPU on a module so that you can "upgrade" your 286 to 486)
  • Integrated software (eg, Framework & Symphony)
  • Object-oriented (a good idea, but tiresome as a buzzword)
  • Just-in-time (as a parts warehousing strategy)
  • Fuzzy logic (including "Taguchi method" of replacing engineering with guesswork)
  • and now, Open-source

Re:an opensource os? (1)

Lechter (205925) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154622)

Actually, being directed at newbies I would argue that the book's name gets across what it needs to. After all, Open Source operating systems has been portrayed as an Linux "fad," so many people mightn't know about *BSD. Also, most people tend to think of FreeBSD as being more of a server platform, I know of many people who use it to power their servers but of few who use it to run their desktop system.

Of course, given the centralized source [freebsd.org] of packages (ports [freebsd.org] ), and the quality of the documentation there [freebsd.org] (especially the FreeBSD handbook [freebsd.org] ) FreeBSD is really a pretty good place for Newbies [freebsd.org] to begin their foray into Open Source. Hell FreeBSD was where I started, and at this point I don't own any windows machines, save my old laptop.

Re:an opensource os? (1)

3am (314579) | more than 13 years ago | (#2158919)

it is a selling point. if the code for *BSD were not open, i assure you, it would not be as widely adopted. sure, it's fast and reliable. so are other operating systems... and i would consider getting a BSD distro over any of the closed source alternatives, for the learning experience of being able to delve into a matured and tested code base. it's great, and it's open source. both are selling points in this case. i know the phrase 'open source' is overused here a lot, but in this case it's appropriate...

who cares (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2168178)

about linux compatability. Unless your running netscape- oh wait, there's mozilla.
I will not sully my clean and elegant OS with any linux compat junk.

in related news (2, Funny)

Chundra (189402) | more than 13 years ago | (#2126970)

Bao Ha and Tina Nguyen are re-releasing their 1999 ground breaking best seller, Slackware Linux Unleashed (Sams Publishing). The 2001 release offers a working copy of Slackware 4, complete with 900 pages of manpages and roughly 200 pages of exciting information you can't find anywhere else. You too can learn to be a Slackware Linux guru! Industry insiders rave:

"It's the most definitive Linux book you can buy" (Linus Torvalds).

"Absolutely superb." (Richard Stallman).

"The only book you'll ever need about Linux...heck...about UNIX!" (W. Richard Steven's widow).

*BSD is dying (-1, Troll)

MSBob (307239) | more than 13 years ago | (#2130146)

Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when last month IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on top of of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Re:*BSD is dying (1, Offtopic)

gavlil (255585) | more than 13 years ago | (#2114423)

how the fuck do trolls like this get +2 its just like the pop charts with losers like n-sync getting to #1
mod this troll down!!!

Re:*BSD is dying (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2122811)

And you're a loser cunt with no sense of humour.

Re:*BSD is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2131451)

Not only are you wrong, the alternative is even worse:

If you put Linux next to some other operating systems out there for a cost comparison, the conclusions are devastating for Linux.

Linux costs not only more because of the frequent updates which require new cdrom's to be bought if you don't have a high speed Internet connection.

Another factor in Linux cost is its maintenance. Linux requires a *lot* of maintenance, work doable only by the relatively few high-paid Linux administrators that put themselves - of course willingly - at a great place in the market. Linux seems to be needing maintenance continuously.

Add to this the cost of loss of data. Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose loses water, when the file system isn't unmounted properly. Other unix file systems are much more tolerant towards unexpected crashes. An example is the FreeBSD file system, which with soft updates enabled, performance-wise blows EXT2FS out of the water, and doesn't have the negative drawback of extreme data loss in case of a system breakdown.

Factor in also the fact that crashes happen much more often on Linux than on other unices. On other unices, crashes usually are caused by external sources like power outages. Crashes in Linux are a regular thing, and nobody seems to know what causes them, internally.

The steep learning curve compared to about any other operating system out there is a major factor in Linux' cost. The system is a mix of features from all kinds of unices, but not one of them is implemented right. A Linux user has to live with badly coded tools which have low performance, mangle data seemingly at random and are not in line with their specification. On top of that a lot of them spit out the most childish and unprofessional messages, indicating that they were created by 14-year olds with too much time, no talent and a bad attitude.

I can go on and on and on, but the message is clear. In this world, there is no place for Linux. It's not an option for any one who seeks a professional OS with high performance, scalability, stability, adherence to standards, etc. The best place it should ever reach is the toy store, and even that would be flattering.

Re:*BSD is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2137646)

You really have to wonder what it is that motivates these spammers. If BSD is just a quaint, antiquated, irrelevant OS, why do they get so angry when something interesting happens in the BSD world?

Re:*BSD is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2140230)

The press is a lot like these sorts of jerks. If they want to assassinate someone politically, they have a poll or a survey done that shows that a vast majority are against whomever the press doesn't like.

Re:*BSD is dying (0)

MarkoNo5 (139955) | more than 13 years ago | (#2138011)

Is that post being generated by a bot ? I've seen it before a few times.

Marko No. 5

Really, wow (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2138847)

Thanks for all the info. I've been looking into migrating some of our applications to a UNIX platform, and had heard good things about the speed and stability of the *BSDs, but after seeing this I'm definitely going to reconsider. I'd really not like to go with a commercial UNIX vendor, so maybe Linux will be the way to go. Thanks again!

Re:Really, wow (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2132552)

Jesus, this really is low. :)

A troll responding to his own post in an effort to give it credibility.. Way to go dude!

I think the post about Linux cost in this thread says more about Linux than you ever said about FreeBSD. And guess which post I'm going to believe? My company has 10^100 PC's waiting to be converted to a free unix, eat that!

Re:*BSD is dying (0)

cant_get_a_good_nick (172131) | more than 13 years ago | (#2159388)

I could search and find counterexamples to this. But that would be debating in the argument in the context the previous poster franed it, and I think it's an invalid one.

What contest is FreeBSD in? What makes a good OS? Is it market share? If it is, DOS would be the best OS ever. There are still plenty of DOS-only machines out there and it still forms a decent core of current consumer Windows products. There still are a great deal of Windows 3.1 machines out there, which probably pisses Bill off plenty.

What is this zero-sum game battle that Linux and {Free,Net,Open}BSD are in? I'm tired of the Linux rulez BSD sucks wars, on Slashdot and everywhere else on the net. They have two different philosophies. Linux has the advantage of multiple distributions giving you multiple sources. FreeBSD has the advantage of being from a single source. It's cleaner. If you notice, these are opposite sides of the same coin. And they're both FREE dammit. You can choose. Choose the best tool for the job, not because you have some religion that requires you to go on some holy crusade, trying to get converts.

Odd in this age of an embarrassment of riches, where we have multiple free OSs - Linux, the BSDs, Atheos, Plan 9 (free, though not Open Source, corrections?) - we have to get into "sucks/rulez/rockz" debates.

And what is your definition of *BSD's "death"? As long as people want to work on the BSDs, it will not die. As long as the code is available, and it is Open Source, it will not die. Even if none of the code is ever used, it is teaching code. As an OS, if it only meets the needs of the developers, and no one outside of the development group uses it, it's a success. Knowing the quality of the code (I'm a FreeBSD fan), I'm sure others will also use it.

In a related story... (-1)

j0nkatz (315168) | more than 13 years ago | (#2131228)

Dick Stallman is an asshole!!!

http://news.linuxprogramming.com/news_story.php3 ?l tsn=2001-08-16-002-06-LT
read about it there!!

FreeBSD, eat your own dog food (3, Funny)

typical geek (261980) | more than 13 years ago | (#2131229)

I think we Americans should consider buying this book and moving to FreeBSD, because most of the FreeBSD developers are Americans. Nothing against the Finns, UKians, Russians and Germans that make up the bulk of the Linux developers, but I'm not so sure I'd want my OS of choice to be dependent on a bunch of foreigners. Sure, we're mostly friends now, but it was only a few decades ago that some of those folk were our mortal enemy. I'd feel better knowing that in a national crisis, I'd have a bunch of Californians keeping my OS developing.

Re:FreeBSD, eat your own dog food (1)

pmz (462998) | more than 13 years ago | (#2139686)

I'm not so sure I'd want my OS of choice to be dependent on a bunch of foreigners.

There are real reasons for not wanting the OS to be developed in the USA. One is the way the US wants to control technology, such as encryption and, now, copyright. OpenBSD [openbsd.org] , for example, is based in Canada for the specific purpose of avoiding constraining US export laws.

I don't care who develops my OS. The only foreigners that bother me are the ones that have "Kill Americans" on today's list of things to do. Additionally, California isn't necessarily going to keep up in a crisis, especially if their UPSs are draining during a blackout.

Re:FreeBSD, eat your own dog food (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2154372)

How did this TROLL get a Score:2

What is wrong with these moderators. This ranks as 100% troll, or the second stupidest thin ever said on Slashdot.

I can't rememeber the first. Can you?

Re:FreeBSD, eat your own dog food (2)

gelfling (6534) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154543)

But the Americans are all dotheads anyway.

The book I'm waiting for... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2132041)

NetBSD: An Open Source Operating System for your Toaster.

BSD Firewall project for windoze users (3, Interesting)

ferreth (182847) | more than 13 years ago | (#2132464)

Check out the BSDwall Project. [cuug.ab.ca] It's along a similar vien, but with a specific purpose in mind: Get your average (well, slightly above average user) to be able to make their own BSD firewall out of an old 486+ 2 NICs.

Our local UUG (CUUG) [cuug.ab.ca] ran a course where they put you step-by-step though the process of making a firewall in one evening. You just had to take the thing home and plug it into your cablemodem/hub or PC. They even made sure you had the right IP's for your local provider, being DSL or cable

Books are good, yes, but the UNIX/Linux community reaching out with projects kept simple to show the user something they can't do with Windoze is another way to clue the masses to the strenghs of other OS's.

FreeBSD, Linux, custom bootdisks the difference (3, Interesting)

joneshenry (9497) | more than 13 years ago | (#2132555)

A book written for newbies on how to install FreeBSD makes no sense because the policy of FreeBSD's developers is not to cater to newbies. Linux and FreeBSD are targetted towards different segments of users, why can't we just accept that? Take a look at a typical posting from a Linux user [freebsd.org] on the freebsd-newbies list. We're talking two different worlds here.

I am relatively young to the scene myself, but let's take a walk down memory lane say six years ago. Back in those days the Linux Howto's, especially the Installation Howto, were essentially Slackware Howto's. (The book I used to figure out how to install Linux was essentially the Howto's printed out.) My PC's BIOS from that era did not support booting from an ATAPI CD Rom drive. Hard drives were much smaller but the EIDE ones were coming up against a succession of limits, limits in where a kernel could be located and still be seen by a bootloader. For Linux there was a well-defined path introducing newbies: you installed and created a custom bootdisk. Linux installation instructions also told how to edit the kernel for the bootdisk floppy to change the root partition location.

From my newbie perspective, this was installation Nirvana! I didn't have to worry about LILO if I didn't want to. From the perspective of other people sharing the PC I used, other than taking up hard drive space, they didn't have to know Linux existed. And Linux could be installed in an extended partition not just a primary partition. Keep in mind that hard drives were a lot smaller then, so for dual-boot setups it was nice to be able to dedicate some more room for the Windows C: drive. And not only that but since everyone did the custom bootdisk compiling as a rite of passage, people could compile bootdisks to help others if the default floppy didn't have the right drivers.

Now from what I have read of the FreeBSD community's thoughts, they couldn't care less about such concerns. The ISP I used back then was hosted on a collection of FreeBSD boxes, abandoning a more monolothic solution with an SGI server, because the ISP's lead technical person knew how to do it. FreeBSD is more like an industrial consortium as far as the core developers go, and at least at that time there was a huge emphasis on stuff related to running ISPs. From their perspective it was laughable to devote much effort to support the most unreliable medium of all, a floppy, for custom booting a machine. And someone like an ISP wouldn't be using EIDE, they'd be using SCSI. 528MB limit [linuxdoc.org] , "get some real hardware, kid" I'd imagine they'd think. And they'd have their internal network and their own procedures for mass replicating setups to many machines.

Six years later I think we can see everyone got what they wanted. The Linux community developed critical mass and got wildly popular with newbies. The FreeBSD community was left alone by the newbies they didn't want to deal with.

Why I, a *nix noob, choose BSD (4, Interesting)

Bluetick (516014) | more than 13 years ago | (#2132626)

About six weeks ago I wanted to get into this whole Linux revolution. So I downloaded just about every major distro (got about 7 I think). Mixed success. Some crashed during the install. Some didn't recognize my SCSI card, and I didn't know what to do. Some didn't recognize my vid card. Some didn't recognize my USB mouse. The one that I did get installed and get X up was Redhat, and it's support for my vid card was abysmal and had all sorts of horrid side effects.

Just when I'm down and out and nearly giving up with *nix, I find FreeBSD. I install it in half the time on my old computer that the other Linux distros took. I was running Lynx and felt like a ninja soon after. Within a day I got X running. Then I went to a bookstore to pick up a book. There's a whole shelf for Linux books. And one lonely FreeBSD book. A day later I've recompiled my kernel as well. The book is a bit too advanced for my tastes, so I should probably pick up this book and maybe a 'Basic *nix Primer' or something. But for me FreeBSD has been infinitely more valuable as a learning tool than Linux was. But really, that's just my experience. No doubt I'm in the minority, and people with more typical hardware will do better with Linux.

Linux is dying (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2134701)

Linux faces a bleak future. In fact there may be no future at all for Linux because Linux is dying. Things are looking very bad for Linux. As many of us are already aware, Linux continues to lose market share; red ink flows like a river of blood. Slackware Linux is perhaps the most in endangered. Let's look at the numbers.

MandrakeSoft's CEO Henri Poole states that there are 70000 users of Linux-Mandrake. How many users of Debian GNU/Linux are there? Let's see. The number of Linux-Mandrake versus GNU/Linux posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. The refore there are about 70000/5 = 14000 GNU/Linux users. Slackware posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of GNU/Linux posts. Therefore there are about 7000 users of Slackware. A recent article put RedHat Linux at about 80 percent of the Linux market. Therefore there are (70000+14000+7000)*4 = 364000 RedHat Linux users. This is consistent with the number of RedHat Linux Usenet posts.

Now Linux companies are consolidating, overhauling their business plans, laying off staff, scaling back expansion plans and pushing back profitability schedules. "It would seem there are too many distributions for the market to bear," said Gartner analyst Tom Henkel. (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,269 5638,00.html)

Red Hat, Inc., the leader in developing deploying and managing open source linux solutions, announced on a reported basis, a net loss of $24.2 million. (http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2001-0 3-22-010-20-PS)

Turbolinux, based in Brisbane, Calif., a Linux-based software provider has withdrawn a $60 million initial public offering "in light of current market conditions." (http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010320/n20215287_2.html) (http://cnnfn.cnn.com/2001/03/20/deals/ipo/)

Clayton-based Linuxgruven.com, a Linux training and service company with 106 employees, laid off 100 employees (http://stlouis.bcentral.com/stlouis/stories/2001/ 03/05/daily41.html)

Lineo withdrew its initial public offering in January. Caldera Systems delayed the acquisition of Santa Cruz Operations' Unix software by a quarter. Linuxcare laid off dozens in February, with Linuxcare co-founders Dave Sifry and Dave LaDuke are among those departing. VA Linux Systems cut 114 people in February and delayed its expected profitability by nine months. (http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,269 5638,00.html)

Due to the troubles of Corel, abysmal sales and so on, Corel Linux is going out of business and was nearly taken over by Microsoft who sell another troubled OS. Owing to the GPL, SuSE is laying off almost all of its US staff. Major marketing surveys show that Linux has steadily declined in market share. Even LinuxWorld.com shut down "because of the economy and everything else" (http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/03/13/ 1720254&mode=nocomment)

Linux is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Linux is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyists (i.e. those who dabble with Minix, Xinu, etc). Linux continues to falter. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Linux is dead.

A prediction.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2135201)

We will see, within the next year, a MicrosoftBSD(TM). Many frustrated Linux users will migrate to this new OS. Microsoft(R) will have abandoned their own code. While I have no proof, my feeling is that they have completed the port of their GUI and Office(TM) products to a BSD base already. Microsoft has always tended to follow in the footsteps of Apple(TM).

Re:A prediction.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2140165)

Sorry, I think your a little off base. MS will embrace and extend Linux, not BSD.

Check it out here [mslinux.org] .

keeps getting easier (2, Interesting)

sik puppy (136743) | more than 13 years ago | (#2135701)

Is there some sort of competition between Red Had and *BSD?

As an amateur tinkerer with various unix flavors, I found rh5 a bit awkward to do anything with, 6.2 was considerably better. From there I went to buying the 4.1 BSD at the house of evil (aka Fry's), and found it to be the easiest *nix distribution yet.

Between the book (the whole reason for buying the package in the first place) and the install system, I found it very easy to get up and running. The management system for getting patches and updates was wonderful...

Then I got a copy of RH7.1 That has to be the slickest install package yet. Flawless install, everything works, and less interaction than even the most basic windoze install (ducking violently hurled heavy objects).

If rh keeps going this way, it could well be ready for general use in the near future.

As for the book in question, it sounds worth a read, although I won't be doing a write up on it - as you can already see, my writing sucks...

The World Needs a Darwin for Dummies Book (1)

Canyon Rat (103953) | more than 13 years ago | (#2137332)

I think a FreeBSD for newbies book is a great idea but, lets face it, the number of Darwin newbies struggling to gain some *nix skills dwarfs the number of FreeBSD users in the same boat. Most Darwin newbies are trying to make do with FreeBSD docs, since the Darwin Docs are so far behind. For the most part this works since Darwin and FreeBSD are so close but where Darwin is different it's very different and newbies especially shouldn't be asked to just hack it out for themselves.

The online sites, like Darwinfo.org, are aimed at more experienced users and are often very slow. Maybe that's because they are overloaded.

I think i have read this book somewhere... (-1)

helstar (172465) | more than 13 years ago | (#2139529)

man this book is really easy to review. here's the entire book...
Warning: Too many connections in /usr/local/daemonnews/mall/phpshop/db/db_mysql.inc on line 73
Database error: connect(localhost,mall,PASSWORD) failed.
MySQL Error: ()

Its amazing what gets slashdotted..

FreeBSD for dummies? (1)

frleong (241095) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154614)

Quoting from the book:

... step-by-step instructions on configuring and running FreeBSD, connecting to the Internet, setting up an internal network, and setting up sound, X Window System (the graphical user interface), and printing. ...

Apart from printing and setting up an internal network, everything ought to be done by the installation program by default, with minimal user intervention. Why should I read a book to do something like that? To be honest, this is where FreeBSD and Linux still scare many people away. Windows may not be the easiest, but at least, it makes the things mentioned above easy enough that most people (except those that don't even know how to use a mouse) don't need to read a book at all, with self-help wizards.

But making something too easy to install is also troublesome (e.g. IIS)...

Re:FreeBSD for dummies? (1)

vs (21446) | more than 13 years ago | (#2137642)

Apart from printing and setting up an internal network, everything ought to be done by the installation program by default, with minimal user intervention.

I disagree. That's exactly the reason why I prefer BSD: If you've set it up yourself, you know how it works and how to fix it.

Re:FreeBSD for dummies? (1)

libolt (114349) | more than 13 years ago | (#2159001)

Perhaps FreeBSD isn't meant for the average user. I wouldn't have my parents or my girlfriend using it. Windows works fine for them. Cheers

Re:FreeBSD for dummies? (0)

rmgrotkierii (190011) | more than 13 years ago | (#2147553)

Welllll I'm wanting to migrate my girlfriend over to *NIX, so she won't have to worry about her computer crashing all the time. I figured I will install either HedRat or Debian then Slack then *BSD on her computer, allowing her to grow more confident in using a computer. And a Win* boxen is not always best for SO or parents, You can setup Mandrake/RedHat to behave almost like Windows but without the crashes.. If you take the time. Im wanting to do that soon with my girlfriend. Hehe

and maybe... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2154684)

Slashdot could use FreeBSD so they won't be down as they just were?

C'mon Taco! We want the truth! What happened?

Re:and maybe... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2154717)

Truth is, there's so much fiddle farting around with Banjo [slashdot.org] that the whole site got trashed.

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Count (107594) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154685)

hot damn

Before any of you trolls say it... (0, Informative)

NewbieSpaz (172080) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154686)

BSD is NOT dying!

Re:Before any of you trolls say it... (0, Offtopic)

NewbieSpaz (172080) | more than 13 years ago | (#2144080)

Excuse me Mr. Moderator... how can I be redundant? check the (#) after the date, mine says 2... I was the first to post this for this thread. #1 was a FP!... Mod this up, and learn how to moderate!

Re:Before any of you trolls say it... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2131884)

You stated a fact that was well-known and just plain obvious. This is known as "redundant." Try www.dictionary.com if you aren't sure of the meaning of a word in the future.

Re:Before any of you trolls say it... (1)

NewbieSpaz (172080) | more than 13 years ago | (#2147776)

It amazing how worked up an AC gets over a joke statement of "BSD is NOT dying"... Why don't you log in and speak your mind, instead of hiding behind the AC wall?

IF I EVER MEET YOU (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2155737)

I WIL KICK [slashdot.org] YOUR ASS!!!1!!!11!!!

Re:Before any of you trolls say it... (-1)

Shitsack Comments (256887) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154931)

Of course not. It's already dead.

Re:Before any of you trolls say it... (3, Funny)

Joao (155665) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155236)

NewbieSpaz wrote:
>
> BSD is NOT dying!

Mr. Praline : 'Ello. I wish to register a complaint.

(The owner has his back to the register and does not respond.)

Mr. Praline : 'Ello, Miss?

Owner : (turning around, very angry) What do you mean, "miss"?

Mr. Praline : I'm sorry, I have a cold.

(The owner nods, understanding.)

Mr. Praline : I wish to make a complaint!

Owner : (hurriedly) Sorry, we're closin' for lunch...!

Mr. Praline : Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this OS, what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.

Owner : Oh yes, the, ah, the FreeBSD... What's, ah... W-what's wrong with it?

Mr. Praline : I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. It's dead, that's what's wrong with it.

Owner : No, no, 'e's ah... he's resting.

Mr. Praline : Look, matey, I know a dead OS when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.

Owner : No no, h-he's not dead, he's, he's restin'!

Mr. Praline : Restin'?

Owner : Y-yeah, restin.' Remarkable OS, the FreeBSD, isn't it, eh? Beautiful command line!

Mr. Praline : The command line don't enter into it. It's stone dead!

Owner : Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!

Mr. Praline : All right then, if he's resting, I'll wake him up!

(shouting at the system tower)

'Ello, Demon! Mister Demon OS! I've got a lovely fresh OC-3 for you if you wake up, Mr. Demon OS...

(owner hits the monitor)

Owner : There, he moved!

Mr. Praline : No, he didn't, that was you pushing the monitor!

Owner : I never!!

Mr. Praline : Yes, you did!

Owner : I never, never....

(He pulls the hard disk out of the box and screams into it.)

Mr. Praline : 'ELLO DEEEEEEMMMOOONN BEEE-ESSSSS-DEEEEE! DEMON OS! WAKE UP!

(He bangs the disk against the store counter, horribly hard.)

TESTIIIING! TESTIIIING! THIS IS YOUR NINE-O' CLOCK ALARM CALL!

(He does it again, harder.)

BEEE-ESSSSS-DEEEEE!

(He tosses it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor. Longish pause.)

Now that's what I call a dead OS.

Owner : No, no.... No, he's stunned.

Mr. Praline : STUNNED?

Owner : Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! FreeBSDs stun easily, major.

Mr. Praline : Look my lad, I've had just about enough of this. That OS is definitely deceased, and when I bought it not half an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of market share was due to it being tired and shagged out after a long download.

Owner : Well, he's... he's, ah... probably pining for the fjords.

(Praline looks angrily back and forth, stuttering.)

Mr. Praline : PININ' for the FJORDS? What kind of talk is that? Look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?

Owner : The FreeBSD prefers kippin' on its back! Remarkable OS, isn't it, guv, eh? Lovely command line!

Mr. Praline : (coldly) Look, I took the liberty of examining that OS when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on the hard disk in the first place was that it had been WRITE PROTECTED there.

(pause)

Owner : Well, of course it was write protected there! If I hadn't write protected that OS down, it would have nuzzled up to the ethernet card, hacked its way out with its little trident, and VOOM!

Mr. Praline : "VOOM?"

(Praline puts the system down and take the hard disk into his hands.)

Mr. Praline : Look matey, this OS wouldn't "voom" if you put four thousand volts through it! It's bleedin' demised!

Owner : It's not! I-It's pining!

Mr. Praline : It's not pinin,' it's passed on! This OS is no more! It has ceased to be! It's expired and gone to meet its maker! This is a late OS! It's a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn't write protected him to the disk he would be pushing up the daisies! Its active processes are of interest only to historians! It's hopped the twig! It's shuffled off this mortal coil! It's run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible! This.... is an EX-OS!

(pause)

Owner : Well, I'd better replace it, then.

-------------

Sorry folks. Couldn't resist! ;)

Re:Before any of you trolls say it... (2)

cant_get_a_good_nick (172131) | more than 13 years ago | (#2114357)

Damn, and I blew my mod by posting. SOMEONE MOD THIS UP

Re:Before any of you trolls say it... (0)

rmgrotkierii (190011) | more than 13 years ago | (#2158689)

Aww man, I wish I could watch Monty Python as well.. :'( After getting kernel 2.4.9 not 10 mins ago, I decided what was up on /. before I passed out, and I'm GLAD I did! Now only if I could get FreeBSD installed on my other computer.. Maybe I should get this book and see how much "help" it provides. Hehe

WTF? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2154710)

Slashdot was down! For a brief few minutes I just didn't know what to do with myself.

Slashdot is dying ! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2154712)

Thanks to Anne Tomlinson and her continuous DOS attacks, Slashdot will close shop soon.

At last! (-1, Offtopic)

Frank White (515786) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154756)

At last, a nigga rappin' bout blunts and broads, tits and bras, menages a trois, sex in expensive cars, I still leave you on the pavement, condo paid for, no car payment, at my arraignment, note for the plaintiff: "Your daughter's tied up in a Brooklyn basement." Face it, not guilty, that's how I stay filthy. Richer than Richie, till you niggas come and get me.

Re:At last! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2125987)

Y'raaaass claaaaht !

Hmmmm (0, Redundant)

BiggestPOS (139071) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154779)

Learn BSD. Sure, why not. My linux box (a dual pentium II) is currently just sitting there. A good shakeup is in order. Plus, Linux is too trendy, BSD still had that air of elitism.

Great (2, Troll)

Wind_Walker (83965) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154822)

I, for one, am glad to see that more effort is being put into initiating new members into the "fold", so to speak. The sheer volume of information that needs to be assimilated just to get a version of BSD/Linux installed is enormous to the average user.

I've always said that one of the biggest problems with the BSD/Linux community was the high level-of-entry that was required. I mean, just to start into a text-only operating system is intimidating enough, but trying to decode cryptic interfaces and even more cryptic man pages is often too much for John Q Computer User.

Non-Jews can use BSD too!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2154549)

I, for one, am glad to see that more effort is being put into initiating new members into the "fold", so to speak. The sheer volume of information that needs to be assimilated just to get a version of BSD/Linux installed is enormous to the average user.

Cause I ain't Jewish means BSD is too much information? I would expect this statement from a techno Jew like yourself.

Just because I'm only a level 2 tech support rocker, don't mean Jew stuff is more complicated than my thoughts. Shit...


I've always said that one of the biggest problems with the BSD/Linux community was the high level-of-entry that was required. I mean, just to start into a text-only operating system is intimidating enough, but trying to decode cryptic interfaces and even more cryptic man pages is often too much for John Q Computer User.


Just cause we can't read Hebrew don't mean we can read computer books! Now, I know you Jews can read good, especially cryptic stuff, but that don't mean nothing.

I ain't got a problem with Jews and all... I know some of them are pretty cool, but it would be nice if you guys didn't talk down to the rest of us because we're from the south and are non-jews.

Shout out for my bro, Drugs Delaney!!! What's up Drugs??? Kicking that bong!!! Hell yeah!!! That was kool...

Re:Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2155116)

If you don't like the commandline, then BSD probably isn't for you. The community has no interest in catering to newbies who can't read the handbook and want graphical administration tools, and I for one, am glad to see that.

Re:Great (2, Insightful)

ednopantz (467288) | more than 13 years ago | (#2116061)

I just don't get the contempt some have for people who prefer the GUI.

The GUI is the single most signifigant development in computer user interfaces in the past 20 years. Sure OS's don't like using all those resources on a GUI, but for users, it turns the computer from a cryptic oracle that speaks in an arcane language to an tool that coresponds to our innate understanding of the world. "I need to stop using this file, so I will drop it on the desktop for a minute."

When I fist installed Linux, my first reaction was: "So THIS is what the hype is all about? A user interface from the 1970s? No wonder this is free, who would pay for it?" I gave up on Linux for a year and have only recently tried again, mostly unsuccessfully because the install and hardware detection routines are damn so hard to use. The contempt that experienced users have for those of us who would prefer a GUI certainly doesn't help.

While I agree that Linux GUIs aren't really the right tool for interacting with a lot of Linux's features, that is a failing of the GUIs and distributions, not a failing of the concept of a GUI.

Re:Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2135270)

>that is a failing of the GUIs and distributions, not a failing of the concept of a GUI.

When the GUI supports pipes, I'll believe you.

Till' then I'll enjoy a more powerful CLI.

When the GUI supports pipes... (1)

JohnDenver (246743) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155394)

When the GUI supports pipes, I'll believe you.

Conceptually this doesn't sound like a big problem... Implementing it is a different story...

Imagine a Visio like diagram where the visual elements consist of small iconic like forms where this iconic form would represent a task to be called: Ex: Cat (concatonate)

These iconic forms would allow you to specify parameters using text, combo, and other selection widgets, while input and output connected via drag-drop from one iconic form to another.

You could even take it a step further and allow input and output to be connected to the parameters themselves.

Of course, the killer feature would be if could work along-side your favorite command line tool without mangling it, much like a good SQL visual editor.

If you were actually SPEAKING for the (2)

Archfeld (6757) | more than 13 years ago | (#2134723)

community and not BLOWING IT OUT YER A$$, then you'd have logged in. Linux needs new users BADLY.
Market share translate to influence and ATTENTION.
Because M$ has failed to implement a GUI PROPERLY does not mean GUI is bad, I personally think there is NO BETTER PLACE for a GUI done RIGHT to originate. MOB software model :)

Re:Great (2, Interesting)

pschmied (5648) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155256)

The sheer volume of information that needs to be assimilated just to get a version of BSD/Linux installed is enormous to the average user.


I recently taught a short course on FreeBSD at my university.

Why did I pick FreeBSD? Because it is really easy to install, but still doesn't abstract things with wizards.

The audience of the class were people who had never touched UNIX before and only two of my students had ever even installed Windows.

Every single one of my students was able to install FreeBSD at the end of the class. This was even after they were bombarded for two weeks with things like package management, X11, Window Maker, KDE, StarOffice, gimp, etc.

They were able to mainly intuit the install afterward.

FreeBSD is darned easy to install, and even easier to use afterward. If FreeBSD ever added a gui to the install, people would be bitching that MacOS was hard to install.

As a (now) longtime Linux/BSD user, I have to say: FreeBSD is as easy as UNIX installs get. And I'll say its easier than any version of Windows to install other than Win2k.


-Peter

Odd modding. (1)

Adambomb (118938) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155516)

How on earth does this post get modded Troll? He makes a very valid point and doesn't go far from the topic just to bring out conflicts. Hell, he isn't even posting against OSS *ix's, he's just making a common observation. When was the last time you were able to explain partitioning or ip tunneling to an average user without their eyes glazing over?

Give me liberty or mod me down.

Google Cache (0)

Count (107594) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154830)

Slashdot Cache [google.com]

Not that pricey either (1)

Flower (31351) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154867)

Yeah, it doesn't look to have as much as the $80 lart sized set that I've seen around but the price is much more attractive if you want to give the OS a spin. $25 makes for a much better impulse buy.

Re:Not that pricey either (1)

ferreth (182847) | more than 13 years ago | (#2126222)

Oh yeah, I paid $20 (CND) and got to take home my system. That's $20 for a fully functional, upgradable firewall.

CUUG had to charge 20 bucks to cover the cost of the NICS. Everything else they got for free, plus some sweat put in by volunteers to teach and get systems ready.

Hrmm (5, Insightful)

NitsujTPU (19263) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154868)

I dunno. BSD has been around for a LONG TIME. In many ways, no offense, I am using a linux box to type this, it is a superior OS to linux (not to say that linux doesn't beat it in other areas). It's not any harder to install than most linux distributions (save mandrake, redhat, oh, perhaps it is harder to install), but I think that what makes Linux more popular is a face recognition and the loud mouths of its user (again, nothing wrong with that). BSD has been popular in academic circles for AGES, but you hardly ever hear someone who's never touched unix say "hrmm, maybe I'll try BSD." Whereas you hear plenty of windows users either slamming linux, in an uninformed manner, or saying "gosh, maybe I'll try that, often in an equally uninformed manner." BSD is a great OS, but I don't think that a lack of documentation is the reason linux has "more popularity (if it does)." I just think that it's more advertised.

Re:Hrmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2115504)

> but you hardly ever hear someone who's never touched unix say "hrmm, maybe I'll try BSD."


...Well, almost never. I did my first FreeBSD install last weekend. Painless install (download the two floppy images [freebsd.org] ,plug in the CAT5, and away you go), bit of a steep curve to get it doing useful work. But it's not as nasty as some would lead you to belive.

Kent

Re:Hrmm (1)

gavlil (255585) | more than 13 years ago | (#2126733)

I don't think that a lack of documentation is the reason linux has "more popularity (if it does)." I just think that it's more advertised.

Disagree, i think it plays a part.
IMHO most budding geeksters who are sitting on their wondiws boxes just waiting to install a proper OS over the top come to sites like this to lurk and find out what OS to go for.
the general consensus is that *nix is thaw way to go and the choice is either BSD or Linux.
BSD is much more elitist that Linux so its bes tto learn linux and then 'gradyuate' onto BSd at a later date.
if you really wanna be a sheep you have to follow this path... corel, redhat, mandrake, debian, slackware. then and can you go on to bigger and B(SD)etter things.

Re:Hrmm (3, Insightful)

Octorian (14086) | more than 13 years ago | (#2126968)

Well, to explain this, I can easily quote a friend of mine as saying:

"Linux is for people who hate Windows. FreeBSD is for people who like UNIX."

What this pretty much means, is that FreeBSD is popular in the role Linux was originally intended for ('nix for low-cost PCs), while Linux is touted as the big/noisy "alternative to Microsoft".

Another thing to note, is that while Linux can't technically be called a UNIX (it looks the same, but is very different inside), BSD is a real UNIX (though it can't be called one only for legal reasons).

Re:Hrmm (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2116294)

That couldn't be more true. I use it in my IRC quit message, actually.

Re:Hrmm (3, Informative)

connorbd (151811) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155640)

I don't know if I quite agree that "Linux can't technically be called a Unix" -- dmr considers it part of the family (Linux Magazine, a couple of months ago), and if he doesn't have final say on the matter who does?

Another point: your point is a good one, but it's more about perception than reality.

I do applaud the existence of a BSD book, finally, though -- I use Linux myself (I have OpenBSD running on a Mac SE/30, but it's wedged in rather painfully and I don't use it much) but I do think BSD gets rather short shrift these days. There are five different major Open Source BSDs out there these days, only one of which (Darwin) gets any significant amount of media play. But Yahoo has been running FreeBSD for a long time, and development continues on all the variants... it's about time.

/Brian

(how come we don't have a female mascot around here, anyway? What do Tux, Beastie, and Hexley go home to at night?)

Re:Hrmm (1)

dinivin (444905) | more than 13 years ago | (#2137208)

(how come we don't have a female mascot around here, anyway? What do Tux, Beastie, and Hexley go home to at night?)

Why would the individual they go home to have to be female?

Dinivin

Re:Hrmm (2)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 13 years ago | (#2137893)

It's (BSD) not any harder to install than most linux distributions (save mandrake, redhat, oh, perhaps it is harder to install)...

So in essence what you're saying is that Linux is for the point-and-clicker newbies, and FreeBSD is for the intelligentsia that don't need fancy dancy pointy-clicky wizards and helpers? I get it. So the progression of knowledge should be:

>-PlayStation 2 ->-Windows 98 ->-Linux ->- Windows 2000 ->-GEM (Atari ST) ->-BSD.

;-) Seriously though user friendliness is one of those hilarious multi-headed hydras: When you don't have it you can disparage it as being for idiots and dullards, but once you have it it's a wonderful feature.

Re:Hrmm (1)

MeNeXT (200840) | more than 13 years ago | (#2120059)

Seriously though user friendliness is one of those hilarious multi-headed hydras: When you don't have it you can disparage it as being for idiots and dullards, but once you have it it's a wonderful feature.

User friendly is a relative statement in my opinion. For some things I find linux and FreeBSD more user friendly than Windows. What we seem to mean by user friendly is idiot freindly, or no knowledge required friendly. As a user I like the fact that I do not have to reboot the system to regain speed, stop an app which is not cooperating and such.

Don't get me wrong... if you setup a system for someone and it keeps running as setup for years is that not user friendly??? Everyone keeps saying that windows is better because anyone can administer it, but I have yet to see everyone administer it. When they refer to anyone, they meen someone with a bit of computer knowledge, but in that case they can as easily administer any other OS.

This comment is not to insite a flame war of which OS is friendlier, this is to make a simple point. I have clients which use BSD's as ther server OS and have not had to visit them to admin the system,in some cases, for over 5 years. Now is this not user friendly?

Re:Hrmm (2)

_Mustang (96904) | more than 13 years ago | (#2144078)

...user friendliness is one of those hilarious multi-headed hydras: When you don't have it you can disparage it as being for idiots and dullards, but once you have it it's a wonderful feature.

On a few levels I quite agree with you. The real problem with the whole concept of "user friendliness" is just that, the *user* part. What comes to mind is the SWAT (SAMBA ) interface. It's pretty decent, covering all the essentials that an experienced user might wish to quickly check/alter. The problem is that an unexperienced user would have no idea about most of the settings . Does that mean that this UI is crap? I don't think so. The real solution is to correctly target your audience with the right level of "help". Don't forget, SWAT (and most *nix apps - correct?) allow for editing the config file with a text editor for all that advanced stuff anyway..

So back to BSD - heck any *nix; the level of computer education is the real problem. Grandma probably shouldn't be using *BSD, and CompSci grads probably should't be using Windows.

Re:Hrmm (1)

binner (68996) | more than 13 years ago | (#2147383)

So back to BSD - heck any *nix; the level of computer education is the real problem. Grandma probably shouldn't be using *BSD, and CompSci grads probably should't be using Windows.

Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to be the case. At my university, most of the grads know 'Just enough Unix' to get by. There are the odd few that realize the power of Unix, but for the most part, they're content using putty as a terminal client to access our Solaris machines. Heck, around here, there is no 'Vi vs. Emacs' debate (except among a few)...the real debate is 'Pico vs. anything else! Pico, they use Pico as an everyday text editor! Makes me wanna cry.

-Ben

BSD is very user friendly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2159229)

It's file layout and paths make sense. It is efficient and a pleasure to use. After years of Solaris hell this was quite a relief.
My cshrc file was nice and short, my path statement likewise. BSD is very elegant.

Re:BSD is very user friendly (1)

ergo98 (9391) | more than 13 years ago | (#2128442)

Yup I definitely agree: I use and love FreeBSD and have no issues with it. I just find the paradox of user friendliness an interesting point of discussion.

At Last (2, Insightful)

Erasei (315737) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154894)

I think this is just what the general public needs. Most of the 'into' *nixish books assume a general command line background, if even DOS. Many of the younger geeks have not been exposed to DOS or a command line in general. If there is a book they can read through and gather background knowledge, in easy to understand format, that will be at help to them, at least.

Re:At Last (2)

_Mustang (96904) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154541)

Most of the 'into' *nixish books assume a general command line background, if even DOS. Many of the younger geeks have not been exposed to DOS or a command line in general.

But- can you REALLY consider yourself a computer geek if you've never had regular exposure to the command line in some form? Last I checked, the more *geeky* the operating system the more available the command line.

Ah well, anything to help a quality OS become more popular and gain "market" must be a good thing.

Maybe I can agree with you but (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2137917)

when we were messing around with comp's as a kid the command line was all there was. I started on a friends Dads' machine, playing Zork as I remember got me hooked. Now, unless someone you know is a *NIX person, a command line is a rarity, or even worse they think of it as a function of Windows.

so cold (-1, Offtopic)

n3r0.m4dski11z (447312) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154895)

slashdot down.... so cold...
am i the only one who just sat their reloading the page over and over again not noing what i would do?
/. is like an essential service.

Now This Is A Book I Would Buy (4, Interesting)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154905)

And I would buy it for several reasons:

- I am primarily a Windows user (and Windows support tech,) but want to get more involved with the alternative OSs, especially because of Windows XP. (I already installed Mandrake 8.0, but I don't want to be permanently GUI handicapped)
- I don't have an enormous pipe to download applications. I can only get 28.8 where I live
- When people say 'RTFM' I actually have something to refer to
- It's too time consuming to look up all kinds of documentation online. I know it exists, but downloading it, finding what I want, printing it, etc is annoying. I don't have another box to use while setting up BSD.
- It essentially centralises everything, and I can even learn things without my box at hand because I can just sit down with the book

It's this kind of thing that might lasso in users who otherwise have too little time/patience to break out of the windows mold.

Re:Now This Is A Book I Would Buy (1)

Fez (468752) | more than 13 years ago | (#2116619)

- I don't have an enormous pipe to download applications. I can only get 28.8 where I live
Upgrading FreeBSD via cvsup can be done easily over a slow line. "I can't upgrade because my link is slow" is a common myth. Now downloading an install ISO or installing via FTP do take some speed/time.

- When people say 'RTFM' I actually have something to refer to
The whole handbook and many docs are located on the system post-install in /usr/share/doc/(language)/ if they are not there, you can use cvsup to get the latest Docs from the FreeBSD Documentation Project [freebsd.org]

- It's too time consuming to look up all kinds of documentation online. I know it exists, but downloading it, finding what I want, printing it, etc is annoying. I don't have another box to use while setting up BSD.
That's why there are the ``man'' and ``info'' commands, in addition to the documentation above. ``info'' has loads of manuals and other documentation, but many people don't even know it exists. Docs are also put in /usr/share/doc/ or /usr/local/share/doc/ for installed applications.

The FreeBSD project has great existing documentation. A book is nice but for some it is a waste of money. (Unless the money goes back to the project somehow, and then it's a nice donation.)

Re:Now This Is A Book I Would Buy (1)

YakumoFuji (117808) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155512)

- I don't have an enormous pipe to download applications. I can only get 28.8 where I live - When people say 'RTFM' I actually have something to refer to

- It's too time consuming to look up all kinds of documentation online. I know it exists, but downloading it, finding what I want, printing it, etc is annoying. I don't have another box to use while setting up BSD.

- It essentially centralises everything, and I can even learn things without my box at hand because I can just sit down with the book

well, this is one thing i loved that is part of both Linux and FreeBSD, all the docs. FreeBSD with its manual and docs, Linux with its HowTo's, etc.

both when installed, have swaths of documentation.

dont have another box for printing? screen/alt-f2 etc. docs in one console, doing it in another..

Buzzword Bingo? (3, Funny)

cperciva (102828) | more than 13 years ago | (#2154974)

I saw this on the freebsd mailing lists and my only thought was "wow that's a lot of buzzwords".

"A FRIENDLY, TASK-ORIENTED INTRODUCTION to FreeBSD, a FREE, OPEN-SOURCE, INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH operating system..."
I count six buzzwords in there out of a total of only 12 words.

Re:Buzzword Bingo? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2155561)

you're counting 'friendly' and 'introduction' as buzzwords? do you go around yelling 'bingo' all day?

first... (-1)

j0nkatz (315168) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155030)

post on Windows XP!

uhhhhhhhh (-1)

timmah (447753) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155132)

Ribalah Ribalah Ribalah TIMMAH!

I doubt we'll see a growth in FreeBSD (2)

Hairy_Potter (219096) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155562)

Let's be real, there's a limit to people who are weird enough to get excited about a true multi-user multi-tasking OS (Yeah, I'm on of them). Most of these people are already running Linux, which is good enougn for them, so they won't feel the need to run for FreeBSD. It sounds like a great book, but I can't see hordes of Win 95 AOL'ers dropping it all to go there.


So, sadly, marketing and buzz will allow a less technologically elegant OS (Linux) to trump a better one, FreeBSD.

Freebsd for dummies (newbies?) (1)

Sephex (266860) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155665)

I think this is a great idea, not only will it further introduce fbsd and make it more accessible to those who want to try it out but are just daunted by the 'bsd' portion of Freebsd. Secondly I'm not sure how adequate the current state of documentation on fbsd is on the net. Even though it exists, its somewhat lackluster and decentralized. Given freebsd.org has that great online handbook, there is still no where the amount of documentation that there could be. Look at all the linux documentation projects, pretty impressive. This really seems like a good step in the right direction. I have a friend who is an avid linux user and has been wanting to checkout fbsd, but has been somewhat apprehensive because he couldn't find any beginner level material to start with. I guess I'll forward this to him.

FreeBSD in a nutshell? (1)

psxndc (105904) | more than 13 years ago | (#2155715)

Wasn't O'Reilly supposed to come out with this? Anyone know what happened to it? I'm fairly sure I remember this being posted because people's main argument against it was that UNIX in a nutshell already existed and there wasn't enough of a difference to warrant the book...maybe I'm just drunk right now.

psxndc

A nice step forward... (1)

Vain (195850) | more than 13 years ago | (#2163454)

This is great! I remember trying to use FBSD 4.3 ( I think that was it ). The installer wasn't exactly the most friendly or intuitive... I definately could have used a manual like this then.

I think that the most intimidating part of Linux/*BSD has to be the install itself. Unless you're used to DOS or other shell based OS's it can get a little confusing for the average user. Text == Intimidating. Everyone loves the look of X ( Don't lie to yourselves! ), and once they can get past the installer process I think most people loosen up to the concept. Oooo, pretty windows! This wasn't so hard after all!

Great work, keep it up guys.

Re:A nice step forward... (1)

Vain (195850) | more than 13 years ago | (#2126438)

Edit: The version I tried was 3.3, my bad ;)

yea (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 13 years ago | (#2135496)

or you could have LOOKED AT THE FREE?BASD WEBPAGE.
nitwit. People like you make me believe that there may be a market for freely available information.
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