Ask Slashdot: Distributed Online Storage For Families? 168
StonyCreekBare writes "What options are available for distributed storage for families? My two brothers, my daughter and her husband, and his mother all have homes in various parts of the country. We use various cloud storage providers to keep our shared data. This has numerous limitations and we are starting to think maybe we can do it better ourselves. We all have decent Internet connections, are all somewhat tech savvy, and think that by leveraging the Internet we can maybe provide for our needs better and at lower cost by buying some hardware and doing it ourselves. How would you go about implementing such a family-oriented, distributed cloud platform? What hardware? What applications, beyond simply the preservation and sharing of family data, (grandkids' photos, home videos, and more) would be good to leverage such a platform? Security Cameras? HTPC? VoIP? Home Automation? Primary requirements are Cheap, Secure, Reliable."
s3 (Score:3, Interesting)
Amazon S3 with Expandrive
Re:s3 (Score:5, Interesting)
Amazon with OwnCloud [owncloud.org]
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Owncloud on your shared hosting! (Score:2)
Why restricting OwnCloud to an Amazon hosting?
Any shared hosting, preferably via an association that you can become part of (and control, and check its costs), will run OwnCloud perfectly well!
Here in Europe I'm running OwnCloud on All2All in Belgium; I'm pretty sure there are many such services in the US
(all2all.org)
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Yeah. I run on noname VPS. But Amazon is an easy to do 1-shot for app + storage. I was contrasting to the Closed Source app.
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Troll.
v6. If you want stability, I can vouch for v4.
Re:s3 (Score:5, Interesting)
Commercial, propietary and expensive. Stand up a linux box on EC3, with your storage portal of choice.
ownCloud is open source. If you are a Slashdotter, the time investment should be trivial and the geek/maker factor somewhat exhilarating. 20 bucks a month will blow the doors off of Dropbox pricing for terabyte in the sky. Plus you have a migration/passthrough to Drop, etc.
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But that's not distributed. Power outage at Uncle Jeremiah's while he's on vacation means everybody loses access to all their files until he gets home and fixes it. A fire means everything is lost permanently.
Now if ownCloud allows transparent mirroring between servers at different locations then you're on to something.
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Backed by AWS? You aren't reading.. :-)
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Read your T+Cs. When I tried this, a good few years ago now, Things were fine for about 8 months and I carried both my photo collection and was starting to upload my father's (with his permission ; I held his offsite backup. 500 miles offsite!). Then someone at the "Unlimited Hosting" provider (I even forget their name now, it may have been "Unlimited Hosting", or someone with a completely diff
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For photos: Google+ & Amazon Glacier (Score:2)
They mentioned family photos. There are two services that are virtually free at the moment, which makes it hard to beat with a private cloud.
Yes, Google+ photos have a 15GB cap on full-resolution photos in the free tier, but no cap on "web-resolution" photos. It's simple to upload from Picasa from Win/Mac/Linux, and of course happens automatically on most Android devices. Yeah, it won't be archival quality, but good enough to record and share the "so this happened" moments.
For all of the huge archives of
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That would never happen.
They'd handcuff the women as well and turn all the kids over to foster care so that they could actually be sexually abused.
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It's fully open source, so you can run the whole thing yourself if you want.
LOCKSS (Score:1, Informative)
You might want to check out LOCKSS (Lots of Copies Keep Stuff Safe). http://www.lockss.org/
Reminder (Score:1, Informative)
It is rude to randomly redirect visitors to beta.slashdot.
Even more so because beta sucks.
Providing a hard to find opt-out, adding /?nobeta=1 to the url, just upgrades the aggravation level from "rude" to "insulting and infuriating".
The only acceptable option is, as always, opt-in.
I guess you need reminding. a lot.
rsync (Score:5, Interesting)
FIRST, you decide on what functionality you want.
THEN you look at how to achieve that functionality within your budget.
I'd use rsync as the cheapest means of replicating data between multiple sites. But once you start adding additional functionality requirements that might change.
Re:rsync -- look at Unison! (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been using Unison to sync a pair of Synology boxes that act as my cloud. (One in my office, one at home, each with a RAID-1 array.) I've also gotten it running on a pair of DLink DNS-323 boxes (yes, also RAID-1'ed). The Synology has cloud software; might be a good choice if you want to invest in a cheap small light unobtrusive (Linux) NFS/cloud/music server/etc box.
Re:rsync -- look at Unison! (Score:4, Informative)
I've used rsync to push and to pull so it is bi-directional.
The main difference between rsync and Unison is what happens when file X is altered at the local site AND at the remote site between a single sync interval.
With rsync, one of the altered files will be over-written by the alterations to that file at the other site.
Whether this is a problem or not depends upon your specific situation.
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Unison is only an option in a homogeneous environment, because both ends must run the same version, and you will have the devil's own time actually getting the same current version running on multiple platforms — especially if any of them are Windows. That doesn't make it useless, but it does make it a PITA. This, frankly, is a horrible design. It should be capabilities-based rather than version-based.
FreeNAS (Score:2)
Maybe... Maybe Not. Try SSH. (Score:3)
I did not recommend Amazon in part because OP said they wanted to do it themselves. AWS and S3 are not "do it yourself". They rely on 3rd-party servers.
I'd say that SSH can be the solution, all by itself. The simplest case is shared storage: just set up a server on a network connectio
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But is that really a problem? Usually I'd rather have the file locally to play anyway. Streaming is overrated.
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That's one nice thing about a TiVo.
Once you start copying a file to a TiVo from a PC, you can start playing it while it's still downloading.
Admittedly that's usually a file recorded on another one of your TiVos on the same account, and usually on the same LAN and in the same house, and uploaded to that PC in the first place, but at least it incorporates the idea that "digital on disc means you don't have to wait for the entire tape to finish recording so that you can rewind it to the beginning before you ca
Easiest answer (Score:1)
FOIA request made to the NSA
It's cheap since you don't have to buy hw, sw or bandwidth. It's secure for the same reason that access to your data might be time-consuming and unreliable.
overthinking it!!! (Score:4, Insightful)
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overthinking it!!! (Score:2)
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An option (Score:2)
I'm using copy.com . It's good, reliable and the price is fine.
BittorrentSync or git-annex (Score:3, Insightful)
Off the top of my head, there's two obvious solutions I can suggest. Bittorrent Sync or git-annex. The former is easymode but limited in scope. The latter comes with a webui for some simple things, but also gives you a *lot* of power from the command line. I've never used either on Windows, but if that matters, Bittorrent Sync is probably the more stable of the two right now for that platform (but improved Windows support is the theme this month for git-annex's crowdfunded development, so it should be improving).
Obligatory FUCK BETA, because seriously... fuck it.
Try the new Synology that is soon coming out (Score:3)
The next version (beta version released) of the system that runs the Synology NAS will offer synchronizing from one NAS to another. And the available products from Synology are very reliable. I have been using their products for a few years now and is a very satisfied customer.
You can read about this new feature her [synology.com].
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We use Synology (Score:2)
They're a bit expensive and I wish the documentation was better, but I've had some luck with the Synology products. They've got a lot of plug-in software modules, including an Asterisk PBM for VoIP, Cloud Station for folder synchronization, etc.
Make sure that you look at the specifications, if you're wanting encrypted tunnels or encrypted data on the drives, ensure that you buy one with the AES encryption set in hardware.
One more thing: I have had very poor luck with the Seagate drives I originally bought a
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We also have a Synology. I host a DS1512+ at my place and have 50/25 internet. There are smartphone apps, you can run your own dropbox-like cloud sync, host your own photos... pretty much everything OP wants to do. I have 3 WD Red 3TB drives in RAID5. (Already had one disk die, overnighted a new one, the array rebuilt with no problem and I had full usability of the system the entire time. The replacement drive is now a hot spare.)
We use plex very heavily on it, and it works well. All our HTPC boxes are plug
Many solutions (Score:5, Interesting)
- each of you buy the biggest HDD available
- setup a ssh tunnel in the form of a circle between each family member, where Alice connects to Bob, Bob connects to Charlie, and Charlie connects to Alice.
- each family member then rsync's to the next family member over, where they would do a full rsync of the shared disk, but do an rsync --delete on directories that belong to themselves, so if they delete / move files around, it makes the needed corrections on other family members shared disks without wasting space.
If you are running Windows, you can setup a scheduled task to at a time in the middle of the night to launch cygwin, open the ssh tunnel, and rsync away. If it is linux, setup a crontab. Initial coordination would need to be done to get everything right, but then it would be very automatable.
I do not suggest trying to setup a distributed filesystem across the internet. There are many pitfalls. Whereas this solution, your only concern is, 1) is ssh up? 2) did rsync run? 3) is the disk full?
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File Transporter (Score:3, Informative)
Been looking for the same thing for a while. Finally settled on File Transporter. http://www.filetransporter.com... [filetransporter.com] Now owned by Drobo.
ownCloud Community edition will do nicely (Score:5, Interesting)
Clients for every platform. Server distributions for every platform. Mobile clients too. Runs on HTTPS.
I've set up something similar for my family - love it. I've also set up something simliar for our enterprise. No complaints about the regular feature set. Just some of the enterprise level things could do with a little more work.
BitTorrent Sync (Score:1)
BitTorrent Sync http://getsync.com/
Your description seems to be the perfect use case for BTSync
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Definitely agree here. It's cross-platform and I've put it in place for various use-cases and it hums along nicely, efficiently and effectively. As there's a Linux client it'll also run on a NAS box. No need to hand your data out to a third party nor have any dedicated hardware.
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In BitTorrent Sync,
Having used it a bit (not too much),
just syncing a few directories with friends
and testing it out with a swarm of "Very Small" Azure 2008 nodes, which was a bunch of fun to stand up 10 (at $0.02 per hour each) of them and immediately have my own personal akaimai cloud.
It does not encrypt at the file level, but it would be easy to either;
A) for most security create a Trucrypt volume single file (assuming its not mounted) which could be replicated across the BTSync members
B) Mount a Volume
Simple NAS boxes (Score:2, Interesting)
Our family uses simple NAS boxes (Dlink DNS-323, etc.). We put Debian on them and all the boxes use rsync over ssh in the middle of the night to synchronize the data. Pretty much every "family site" has one. They are also useful for private local storage, shared folders, etc. Everyone knows that any file they put in the "backup" folder will be looked after, everything else is just local. Been working okay for 2 years now. Note - this is not RAID, just distributed backups. Way cheaper than commercial offerin
Git Annex Assistant (Score:2, Informative)
This is exactly what this product has been designed for.
Joey Hess does a great job.
http://git-annex.branchable.com/design/assistant/
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Not really a good option for Windows. I use Unison to go between Windows and one other box, and then sync the other box with the rest of the "cloud". That works all right for me because I only have one Windows box, but it could get ugly with multiple Windows machines.
The Red Matrix Solution (Score:2, Informative)
The Red Matrix. Install your own hub or use a public one. https://libertypod.com
I would love a solution for that. (Score:5, Funny)
Online Storage for Families would be great.
A place where you can store the kids in the cloud while you go on holiday. Or something where you can permanently dump the in-laws without hating to store them at home where they take up valuable space. Something that puts them in deep hibernation would be nice, so that the food cost don't run rampant.
Synology CloudStation (Score:2)
bittorrent sync seems to answer your problem (Score:2)
bittorrent sync seems to answer your problem. distributed, secure, free, etc.
everybody shares a folder, everybody's got a copy of it
What services again? (Score:3)
VoIP, Security Cameras, HTPC, Home Automation?
I don't see these as services that should be moved outside your home. VoIP is going to be dependent on a third-party provider to start with. Security cameras are going to need to record to a in-home location due to data amounts, and putting home automation control outside your home sounds like a security risk.
In the end this still sounds like a case of wanting to share files, pictures, and video really, so you'd want the storage to be off-site. You could have your own server put up at a shared data center if you want to own the hardware, but you could get a VPS account and then tweak it as you want instead. If you do the colo solution you do have the bonus of shipping the hardware around the country for the initial (looong) backup before it's installed.
Re:What services again? (Score:4, Informative)
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There have been lots of ideas for software, but none for hardware.
Last year I bought an Odroid U2, which is roughly a smartphone board with ethernet and USB. The power consumption is minimal -- 0.2W idle, 2W under load. Mine is running Debian, but Ubuntu and Android are also officially supported. I have a 1TB external drive connected. This has been running my website, and a family photo gallery, without any problems.
Last month I bought an Odroid U3 [hardkernel.com], which will be in my house. As well as the server stuf
BitTorrent Sync (Score:1)
I'm already using it to share family photos back and forth with my sister, brother, and octogenarian grandparents.
Works flawlessly and transparently, has no space limits, and requires no user training beyond setting up a folder.
I'm also using it at an art gallery I volunteer for to sync files between machines at the office and several board members, which allows both collaboration and provides us an automatic file backup.
BitTorrent Sync (Score:1)
BitTorrent Sync is an easy to use free file-syncing program.
http://www.bittorrent.com/sync/get-started
Bittorrent Sync + NAS-of-some-kind (Score:5, Informative)
Everyone's fairly tech savvy, right?
1.) Figure out a folder structure that makes sure that everyone's data will be put somewhere and won't accidentally be overwritten by someone else's.
2.) Install BitTorrent Sync on something with a hard drive to hold it. Windows box with a USB hard drive? There's a client. OSX? Client. Ubuntu box? Client. DIY FreeNAS with a RAID-1 in a small case? There's a client. Synology or QNAP box? There's a client, albeit with a little command shell necessary. Hell, those $199 Western Digital Personal Cloud drives can run it.
3.) Create those folders on everyone else's machine, e-mailing around the BT Sync folder keys.
4.) Wait for replication of everyone else's data to your drive, and vice versa - everyone will help everyone else get a copy of the data they don't have.
5.) Profit.
Literally every question answered:
How would you go about implementing such a family-oriented, distributed cloud platform?
See above.
What hardware?
Whatever hardware you have lying around, as long as it has the storage capacity you're looking for, and can permanently stay on. A few suggestions are above, but I'm a bit of a FreeNAS guy myself, especially since you can build a half-decent one with a 2TB RAID-1 for about $400 these days. The WD Cloud Drives are about the cheapest and self-contained route to go, so they may be worth considering if you need more than 3 or 4 of them.
What applications, beyond simply the preservation and sharing of family data, (grandkids' photos, home videos, and more) would be good to leverage such a platform? Security Cameras? HTPC? VoIP? Home Automation?
Well this is the rather perplexing part, because on the one hand you're asking for decentralized storage, and then you ask why you'd use it (VoIP + decentralized storage?!? wtf??). If you need decentralized storage, one should safely be able to assume that that there's already a reason. Having said that, photos would be my first use case, with disaster recovery being the second - Acronis True Image supports backup to FTP/SMB locations, so as long as you can back up to one of them that way, the rest will distribute.
Primary requirements are Cheap, Secure, Reliable."
Cheap? BT Sync is free; you'd need storage regardless. There's 10,001 topics on Slashdot where "the most reliable form of storage" comes up. "How much do you want to spend" is inherently the question, and "Cheap" indicates "not much"...it also doesn't answer exactly how much storage you'll need. Are you undertaking a massive photo album archiving project, or capturing the last 20 years of home videos? a 2TB drive just might cut it, or not. Are you backing up everyone's laptops? 6TB, MAYBE, and single-drive solutions won't cover it anymore...but are you prepared to start forking over $600 a box, along with a weekend of your time (at least) to the cause? Are you doing a roll-your-own Netflix where everyone will add their own CD/DVD rips to the units and then let Plex Media Server work its magic?
Okay, so I lied...one of the underlying questions have been answered: how to get files to the geographically disparate places in the easiest way possible. BT Sync, at the low, low cost of 'free', resolves this. The questions regarding hardware, and how much storage you will need, and what protocols it will need to support, are wholly dependent on how much data will, in total, have to sit on each device. Answer that question, along with the follow-up of "how safe do you really, REALLY need to be?"and then you can start figuring out numbers to go along with it.
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Heh, funny, this is exactly what I'm in the process of doing. Hell, if I can convince my cheapskate friends to pick up NASes, I'd start syncing with them too, especially the friends on the other side of the country from me, for the geographical separation.
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I'm using btsync as well. I have about 20 sites with various synced folders. I have two primary nodes at my office and at my home that have all folders synced, they are essentially where I create all folders. People each get their own folders (actually zfs volumes). I run ubuntu w/ zfs and dedup the storage pool.
When I create a small NAS, I use a refurb computer with ubuntu, zfs even for a single disk (for compression, dedup, snapshots), and samba to share the files at the site.
I use apache w/ webdav an
NAS ? (Score:2)
WD has a really cool NAS device, if your audience has a bit of tech knowledge it should be easy to get one or even 2 of the devices (backup is great) send them to 2 of your family in geographically diverse locations and presto, private cloud storage for you and the family.
Cnet has a review posted here
http://www.cnet.com/network-st... [cnet.com]
Why not just use dropbox? (Score:1)
Seriously. Dropbox is dead simple, which is good for non-savvy family. It just works, handling all the dirty work for you. No tunnels, rsync, no crap like that. The weakest point of Dropbox in my opinion is that any person can delete a file. But Dropbox keeps backups, and you can keep backups yourself of course. It costs money, but in the grand scheme when you consider what you'd have to buy to do it yourself, along with the time it will take, then Dropbox doesn't look all that expensive to me. I pay
This may not be the cheapest... (Score:2)
This may not be the cheapest solution, but it's what I'm planning to do...
You can install the client on your desktop, mobile, linux, and freebsd [bittorrent.com] devices, too (you'll want a supported NAS [bittorrent.com], so something linux-based or FreeNAS or such, unfortunately nothing MIPS-based.
I'm primarily pla
As seen on Usenet: comp.misc (Score:5, Informative)
I've been reading Slashdot since 2000, so going on 14 years now. But I'll be stopping next week in support of the boycott, and maybe after that, if the interface catastrophe called "Beta" goes live.
See you on Usenet at comp.misc where old school commenting is happening: no mods, no karma, no whitespace, and no advertising. Just a lot of old geeks with killfiles and a keyboard.
Uck fay Eta bay!
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I miss Usenet. Yes, the many of the groups got overrun with spam, and I'm not talking the binaries, but I really like the decentralized nature of it. But really, with a good reader, of your own choosing, you could just rip through discussions or participate. How it looked to you was your own doing. Some of the web forums these days are just painfull if you're trying to skim lots of messages. I really like slrn. Oh well.
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Allow me to invite you to The Individual Midnight Thread [slashdot.org]
vpn (Score:2)
Just setup your own stuff at home and vpn there. Its yours, its secure and as cheap as you like.
Try 'SmartOS' from the makers of Node.js (Score:1)
You can see it here: http://smartos.org/
This OS allows for ZFS+DTrace+Zones+KVM
In the regards to the original poster, I would use this since the ZFS file system would protect against silent data corruption. And (Zones/KVM) would allow for Virtual Machines to be used as part of the cloud.
I'm actually thing of using this for my dad's photo collection.
AeroFS (Score:1)
BitTorrent Sync (Score:2)
BitTorrent Sync allows you to sync (2-ways) or backup (1-way) folders to PCs and devices (Windows, MacOS, Linux, iOS, Android) over the Internet. I'm using it to do backups for my family...
It doesn't encrypt by itself, but each OS has that option natively, and you can sync an already-encrypted (at the source) folder.
Setup is very easy: source adds the folder in BT Sync, generates a 1- or 2-way key, sends that over to the destination via email, sms, ...; destination creates a folder in the OS, than adds that
About the hardware (Score:2)
missed the part about the hardware...
I'd go with a full-on PC, because it's only marginally more expensive than a NAS, and it doesn't suffer from a NAS's limitations and bugs, though it does require a bit more setup, especially because given the price of Windows licenses, you should probably go Linux.
You can find Atom motherboards with 4xSATA for $70. Add an enclosure, PSU, RAM, you're at $150 (HP sometimes have good deals on their ProLiant MicroServer). Then you need disks: add up all your data, multiply i
Windows + Linux + rsync + Scripts (Score:2)
The PCs (i.e. laptop/desktop computers) have an icon for backing up to a remote server. This is done on demand via rsync started from scripts (bash or BAT files) to one of the three servers. The servers replicate internally to eac
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Bittorrent Sync (Score:2)
There's this program called bitsync: http://getsync.com/ [getsync.com] which you each have a client on your computers. Share hashes with each other, and you get a distributed, synced in real time copy on each client running the software. It's free, secure, and no servers required. You each have a copy locally, and any modifications are replicated to each client.
Raspberry Pi (Score:1)
You now have the following capabilities:
TresorIt (Score:2)
Check tresorit tresorit.com, dead simple as dropbox, files are encrypted and key is not known by the operator nor NSA, supports groups and other interesting stuff related rights and sharing, backend is some cloud storage.
Two good options (Score:1)
Cheapest way (Score:1)
git-annex (Score:2)
It's not __quite__ there yet (needs a bit more time to get fully stable on Windows), but Git Annex is designed for this job and if you use direct mode it works wonderfully well. It automatically moves binaries around between repositories and because it's Git based you can get any file that was stored in the repository, at any time.
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What the hell? I don't know what that social media B2B page you linked to is, but how can anyone read something with font so small and a giant, conspicuous, two-second-scrolling hype banner?
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Basically this is all Tim Lord's doing. Guess he didn't want to just ride herd on Commander Taco's creation, so he's out to make his mark. (http://www.businessinsider.com/check-out-the-sleek-redesign-of-news-for-nerds-site-slashdot-2013-10) /. sales pitch that Tim (timothy) Lord made up. (http://slashdotmedia.com/about-slashdot-media/slashdot-org/)
This is from the
Lots of funny stuff in the slashdotmedia site. I wonder what Tim means by "our network"? (http://slashdotmedia.com/about-slashdot-media/whos-on-ou
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I somehow missed seeing that Business Insider article [businessinsider.com] when it appeared.
The scary thing is that apparently they believe all that stuff they're saying about how much better it will be.
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I often wondered why SourceForge was a bathtub of babber.
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Well there are problems with /. but it has little to do with the look and feel.
Some real problems:
* The mobile site doesn't work on either iOS (Safari) or Android (Chrome, Dolphin, Firefox, etc.), which are the two mobile platforms you need to support. Is it even possible to get to the comments at all on the mobile site? How?
* Unicode support is needed.
* Your editors suck and the news here is not timely and is often wrong. This is a non-technical issue which no amount of software or stylesheet change wil
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And as a bonus all your content is scanned and censored by microsoft.
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What is? You only listed attributes... Oh, nevermind, I see you've plaved vital information where I shouldn't have to read.
Re:Skydrive (Score:4, Informative)
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What are the "numerous limitations" you mention in your post?
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And it will be interesting to see how they achieve "lower cost".
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Reliable? In my experience, yes.
None of the free cloud service claims to keep your data. They always tell you that you must have a backup elsewhere. So cloud storage can't be used as your reference storage.
Sydrive is not different. From their Terms of service [microsoft.com]:
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Even more interesting is how all posts criticizing slashdot beta are being modded down. So many mod points. None in my possession. Wow.
Shitting on the community is time and time again proven to have the worst outcome... why don't people learn?
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It's like when people used to criticise Michael Sims and Retard Prickpole for the utter shite they'd post. Ahh, the good old days...
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I used 15 moderator points just the other day to mod up nothing but "beta sucks" posts. Your sig looks familiar, so I assume some of them were yours.
I figure I'll eat shit during meta-moderation, but if the comments are broken, there's no real need to read slashdot anyway.
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Allow me to invite you to The Individual Midnight Thread, since you'll need it 5 hours before I do.
http://slashdot.org/submission... [slashdot.org]
Any ideas where we could all gather during Slashcott Week to get reports from spies as to what is or is not happening here?
Can the Vulture spare us some bandwidth and cycles, perchance?
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Another 4 digit userID here supporting the anti-beta movement.