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$1200 Cheap!

michael posted more than 12 years ago | from the playing-hardball dept.

Games 388

Pinky3 writes: "The LA Times is reporting that Microsoft is encouraging retailers to bundle Microsoft games with each XBox. "Beginning next month, many retailers will be requiring customers to pay from $499 to as much as $1,200 to reserve an Xbox console that, like it or not, will come bundled with games, peripherals and warranties. The reason: Microsoft will provide additional marketing money to merchants that agree to include the software giant's games in their bundles. That's because Microsoft's games carry higher profit margins for the Redmond, Wash., company than those published by third-party companies such as Activision Inc. and Electronic Arts Inc.""

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388 comments

I send you this file in order to have your advice. (-1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172133)

"First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. Then they fight you. Then you win."

Bring it on Ballmer and Gates. You are only digging your own graves.

Let go of it all (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172135)

Just what we need, more of life's choices being made by major companies.

$1200 is everything but cheap (1)

sporty (27564) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172137)

Its everything except cheap. $1200 == $1200 which is a lot of money :)

Re:$1200 is everything but cheap (4, Troll)

danheskett (178529) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172156)

Thats the high end of what the article states will be charged. $499 is a the low end.

Either way, it depends on exactly what is provided for that amount of money. $1200 for a 2001 Buick is cheap, $1200 for a can of pop is expensive. Its all relative when it comes to pricing.

I love this quote from Gartner:

"They're overestimating demand," said P.J. NcNealy, senior analyst at Gartner Group Inc. in San Jose. "That could result in a near-fatal first step."

That type of statement is suprisingly bold for anyone, let alone Gartner, to make. MS is the type of company who as of right now probably knows within +/- 5% what the demand is, what the poor/average/rich person will pay for it, what the average 'early' adopter will pay for it, and what the average late adopter will pay for it.

I don't expect MS to make the same low-supply mistakes as Sony, especially since they have been planning this move for years and years.

XBOX is probably going to be huge, and there isn't much Sony, Nintendo, or Sega can do about it except to lower prices, improve technology, and improve games.

Re:$1200 is everything but cheap (2)

RedX (71326) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172179)

That type of statement is suprisingly bold for anyone, let alone Gartner, to make. MS is the type of company who as of right now probably knows within +/- 5% what the demand is, what the poor/average/rich person will pay for it, what the average 'early' adopter will pay for it, and what the average late adopter will pay for it.

And the Gartner group isn't that type of company? That's their expertise. If anyone knows the things you stated above, it would be a company such as the Gartner Group, a company whose sole mission it is to know such facts. I will agree that a giant company such as Microsoft *should* also know these facts, but based on some of their past marketing mistakes, it's pretty obvious that in some cases they haven't a clue.

Re:$1200 is everything but cheap (1)

quartz (64169) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172207)

MS is the type of company who as of right now probably knows within +/- 5% what the demand is, what the poor/average/rich person will pay for it, what the average 'early' adopter will pay for it, and what the average late adopter will pay for it.

I guess you're right. They are all that, and then some. Quote from the article: Loyal Xbox fans will have to dole out hundreds of dollars more than they expected to secure an Xbox. I mean, if they can manage to have "loyal fans" for something that doesn't exist, they will probably have no problem getting them to pay $1200 for something that isn't worth it...

Tell that to PS2's first customers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172162)

They went quite regularly for over $2K for nothing but the box. I'm sure you're more upset at Sony now, right? Oh, probably not, because they're not MICROSOFT. That's the real problem.

Did you expect any differently? (2, Insightful)

Bonker (243350) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172141)

This is a prime example of 'tying', the number one issue the states and DOJ have with Microsoft. It's just another anti-competitive tactic. I'm not surprised at all. This is very typical behavior.

Gatesco wants

Desktop PC Market - 99%
Internet - 99%
Videogames - 75% (Expected)
World Domination - 75%

Re:Did you expect any differently? (1)

frleong (241095) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172154)

Microsoft hardware console marketshare is 0. This kind of tactic for this market is completely LEGAL. However, arbitrary bundling is illegal for Windows, as the Court of Appeals has concluded recently.

Re:Did you expect any differently? (1)

ethereal (13958) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172249)

I beg to differ - using your monopolistic power from one market to force a monopoly in another market is the very hallmark of the anticompetitive actions that Microsoft is on trial for. Microsoft is using their business gains from other monopolies (whether legally or illegally acquired doesn't matter) to create a new monopoly in the console game market.

Re:Did you expect any differently? (1)

pjdepasq (214609) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172244)

What about owning the State of Washington? That's got to be in there somewhere as well...

Re:Did you expect any differently? (5, Insightful)

disc-chord (232893) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172245)

How is it anti-competitive... when the compition did this 12 years ago?

Most slashdotters wouldn't have been around for this so let me give ya'll a history lesson...

When the NES originally came out in the US it was bundled with Super Mario Brothers and Duck Hunt... (two Nintendo produced games)and peripherals (the duck hunter gun) which jacked up the price to cover their loss on hardware. Later a stipped down unbundled package was offered at $50-75 cheaper.

This has happened with every single console to date... the only reason you all are bitching is because it's r33t to bash MicroSoft.

Re:Did you expect any differently? (1)

Lars T. (470328) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172304)

Well, there is the XBox (with or without bundled games or HW, nobody knows) for $299 SRP. But you can't pre-order that, you have to buy one of the super-dooper-bundles for something between $499 and $1200 (thats four times what the console costs) - and it looks like the customer can't even decide which one he is offered.

Re:Did you expect any differently? (3, Insightful)

dstone (191334) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172246)

This is a prime example of 'tying', the number one issue the states and DOJ have with Microsoft.

I just bought a "wine-saver" pump last night. (You use it to vacuum air out of half-finished bottle.) It was bundled with 4 proprietary wine-saver corks. These can't be used with any competitor's products. And I sure as hell don't need 4. I'll contact the DOJ about it.

Re:Did you expect any differently? (2)

zpengo (99887) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172276)

This is a prime example of 'tying', the number one issue the states and DOJ have with Microsoft. It's just another anti-competitive tactic. I'm not surprised at all. This is very typical behavior.

What exactly, though, is the difference between this and any other company that tries to grow and take over its market? The company I work for makes acquisitions on a monthly basis, but they're "growing" instead of "squashing competition."

Where do you draw the line between capitalism and socialism? When does the free market stop, and the government have to come in to make protect us all by preventing the company from growing?

I guess it just depends if we like the company's products or not.

Naked Woman Seeks Sex at Airport [slant-six.org]

Marketting departments are a disease! (1)

diverman (55324) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172289)

Here we go again. Microsoft just doesn't get the fact that this crap is what the industry and people hate about them (asside from Windows, etc).

And you'd think that they would be a little cautious with the current events regarding them and the DOJ. It never ceases to amaze me how arrogant they are.

I just wish the government would hurry up and put their company through the shredder and spread out the pieces. Yeah, the industry might hurt for a while, but would it really be hurt more in the long run? I think it would be better off. Microsoft is pretty much run by marketting.

And I'm sure most people on this board have had to deal with marketting saying that they know what's right, despite the longer term picture, from a technical perspective. I am sure that they have just as little regard for the industry from an ethical and engineering perspective.

If I ever have a company that has a marketting department, I will fire anyone who indicates that they think it's okay to sacrafice ethical choices for money. I'd execute them, but I wouldn't have a company (or freedom) very long if I did. :) At least if I did, I'd still have some good ethics... destroying a disease is always better for the society. :)

-Alex

fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172143)

FIRST POST

Re:fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172147)

You slapnut! you're not even close to fp!, you better apologize to the comunity before i take this empty wine bottle and fuck your mom up the ass with it

Sigh... (2)

nougatmachine (445974) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172144)

Just another reason to go with a PS2 or a Gamecube, I guess. Don't retailers understand that forcing people to pay a hundred extra bucks for games that not everyone wants, instead of letting the customer choose these things is bad? If enough stores go along with this nonsense, the $299 sticker price for Xbox means nothing, and will end up being a huge boost to the competition. When you buy a car, you don't have to add an extra $1000 for the included yacht.

Re:Sigh... (3, Funny)

dave256 (24152) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172168)

...no, you pay
  1. $1000 ea for four Optional High Traction Devices(tires)
  2. $500 for Additional Passanger Carrying Devices (passenger seat)
  3. $800 for Climate Control (vents)
  4. $200 for Multimedia Enviroment (tape deck)
  5. ...

Re:Sigh... (3, Insightful)

danheskett (178529) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172170)

Don't retailers understand that forcing people to pay a hundred extra bucks for games that not everyone wants, instead of letting the customer choose these things is bad?

I dont think thats whats going on.

This only applies to pre-orders, if I read the article correctly. This basically means that early adopters will have to pay a big-price to get it first/early/right away.

The day the Xbox is released, it is my understanding that it will be available for $299. The high-prices only apply to people who reserve it early, right?

Re:Sigh... (3, Informative)

Enigma2175 (179646) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172296)

When you buy a car, you don't have to add an extra $1000 for the included yacht.

I bought a car recently (10 days ago). No auto dealership in town had the car I wanted. They were either the wrong color (I wanted black), had the wrong options(there were some things I wanted and sone things I could care less about) or had the wrong transmission. Now, I had a choice. I could buy a car that was very close to what I wanted but was on the lot, or I could order exactly what I wanted from the factory. If I ordered from the factory I would pay full list price. If I bought off the lot I would get a $2000 rebate and be able to haggle the price with the dealer. I ended up paying several thousand dollars less by buying a car with MORE options. I got things I didn't want on my original idea of the car, but they didn't cost me anything in the long run(in fact, they saved me money).

Game systems have ALWAYS been bundled with games, back to when video games were invented. The atari 2600, TI, Nintendo, PlayStation, Sega and every other platform I can think of came bundled with games. My pong game came with pong, and the company was audacious enough to not let me play any other games on it! Computer systems also come bundled with software. That does not mean I think it is right, but it is a common business practice, both in automobiles and computing. That said, I think MS is waaaaay off here if they think anybody is going to pay 2 - 4 times the MSRP of the system to have it bundled with a bunch of stupid games. There is an alternative to PCs bundled with software (build your own computer). There most likely will be retailers that forgo the extra marketing money from MS in order to sell the machines unbundled with games. I think a retailer would make more money overall, although I have no way of knowing how much of a marketing allowance MS is providing. If everone else is selling bundled systems for $600 and you are selling an unbundled system for $300 I think you would have many customers.

wow (1, Interesting)

Tebriel (192168) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172145)

For $1200, you can build a machine that will run X-Box games. After all, it's CE based, so emulation shouldn't be a problem...

Well you're half right. (3, Informative)

Kibo (256105) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172215)

But it's not CE based. Operating System: Windows 2000 Kernel, DirectX API [grnetwork.com]
But the Gamecube will support HDTV outta the box, with MS it might be an add-on. Not that I want to help Mario and the Princess pick the most beautiful flowers, so no one crys at the garden party, in HDTV. Still Nintendo...if only I could expect Ikari warriors in stunning HDTV.... Nintendo is what you get when you listen to people who admonish others to "think about the children."

Re:Well you're half right. (0, Offtopic)

AKA da JET (280057) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172256)

"Nintendo is what you get when you listen to people who admonish others to "think about the children." "

Sorry, I would like to disagree with that, Nintendo just doesnt need sex and violence to make a descent game. I'll take Mario over Duke Nukem any day!

CE is part of the problem (1)

MatthewLovelace (465003) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172239)

CE-based? That scares me. The last thing I need is to get the climactic battle in Final Fantasy X, be a round away from victory, and have the game freeze with a message box reading:

Final Fantasy X has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.

Re:wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172243)

XBox is NOT CE based.

Same deal with the PS2 (0)

sucko (257144) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172148)

But I don't remember any alarmist stories on slashdot about that. Wonder why...

Re:Same deal with the PS2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172152)

Then give a link to a story about it and start an alarmist story. Trying doing something for yourself instead of complaining that no one does it for you.

Re:Same deal with the PS2 (0)

sucko (257144) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172228)

you've missed the point. I'm not looking for more alamist, yellow jouralism.


Here, I'll spell it out for you. Selling a console bundel isn't new. At a look at Amazon, it doesn't even appear that you can buy a bare playstation2 from them; its bundels only.


You guys are only whinning about this because you have a hardon for microsoft.

Are they stupid? (well we already know the answer) (1)

h0mer (181006) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172149)

This type of marketing is complete and utter bullshit. When Gameboy Advance came out a couple months ago, this "bundling" thing pissed off many a person. I know that I refuse to buy any sort of bundle and I suggest everyone else do the same. You'd think MS would try being a good business because of all that anti-trust stuf...

Yeah, and...? (1)

Party Remover (131980) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172155)

I'm not sure why this is "playing hardball". The implication that retailers could bundle other manufacturer's games with the unit, as long as they're willing to forego the financial incentives, is what's interesting to me. I don't remember any Activision titles coming with my Atari 2600.

Re:Yeah, and...? (1)

xonker (29382) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172263)

How much do you know about retail? The "financial incentives" are likely the only way that retailers are going to make money on this. Game consoles come with little to no margin, that is profit over cost, that's why everyone sells consoles at about the same price. (It's illegal for any company to force retailers to uphold a set price on a product, though they can refuse to sell to a retailer altogether...)

Companies like Best Buy make money by forcing manufacturers to supplement their advertising, and then offering the product near cost in many cases. With Microsoft, if they don't get the "financial incentives," they have to come up with ad dollars out of their own pocket -- something they're not happy to do.

You know those Best Buy circulars that come in every Sunday paper that have prices that undercut everyone else? They're bought with money from Microsoft, Sony, etc. That's one of the things that gives chains like Best Buy and Circuit City their advantage, and they're not going to give it up.

So, yes, this is quite definitely the retail equivalent of hardball.

Uh M$ looks to be spreading the ... (1)

scriptopia (257044) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172157)

questionable business practices around! It's almost as if that's the only way they know how to operate. Bundle. Bundle everything as long as it improves our bottom line.

Re:Uh M$ looks to be spreading the ... (1)

danheskett (178529) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172175)

Yes, and in most cases bundling is "not questionable" but rather "fully 100% legal, and fully 100% supportable by the market".

Bundling has been going for years and years, and its entirely legal in this case. Wouldn't you agree? So why then is it questionable? Because you don't like MS?

Ah, its not to say that it is suprising... (3, Insightful)

Chompster (97289) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172159)

No doubt-- its quite unfair that they do this-- but, again, its not suprising. I, myself, am not going to get an XBox, and this would be further reinforcement to my decision.

No offense to you guys who like the XBox-- but compared to the Gamecube, (which is made by the very experienced Nintendo,) its sorely lacking.

This is not an encouragement to boycott XBox, but i don't think that this sort of thing should be endorsed. Nintendo . as far as i can remember, always let you buy a bare system (which is to say, one without a game) and if you couldn't, you didn't usually pay much more than 40 or so dollars extra. Sega didn't do that, (correct me if i am wrong) and not even Sony. Microsoft is obviously inexperienced in this market, and hopefully they'll learn a lesson with this.

This could go into a whole "why big business is bad" or something, but i don't want it to. Its just an example of how Microsoft is screwing up because of their inexperience in the console market.

Just my two cents =)

Re:Ah, its not to say that it is suprising... (2, Flamebait)

danheskett (178529) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172189)

This is unfair? Why?

This only applies to the people who reserve a game early, correct? I think thats what the article said (not entirely sure).

If that is the case, which I believe it is, and you can still get a bare $299 Xbox, why is this unfair?

This is basically just another choice: you can buy a bare $299 system and $200 worth of games, or you can buy a bundled system at $499 with 2 x the number of games, albiet MS games.

This has nothing to do with big business, but rather should go into the "good business" pile.

This is no screw up, this is a smart move by MS. More choice, better deal, AND stick it to the early adopters. Good, good.

Re:Ah, its not to say that it is suprising... (1)

A Clockwork Orange (251566) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172212)

The only Sony system that I've seen bundled as a system, and game, is the PS2 and GT3 bundle. I don't remember there being any "bundles" with the PSX.

Wow, this is so new - Evil Microsoft (1, Interesting)

eXtro (258933) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172161)

Wow, nobody ever has done this before. I mean Nintendo didn't do that with the Gameboy Advance, Sony didn't do it with the PlayStation 2 and Sega didn't do it with the Dreamcast.


Except that they all did it. It was extremely difficult to find any of these devices that didn't require purchasing a couple other products with it.

Re:Wow, this is so new - Evil Microsoft (2)

A Commentor (459578) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172199)

The PS2 DID NOT do this... some merchants decided to do this, but it was NOT pushed by Sony...

I had no problem getting the PS2 from Walmart without any additional purchases. Circuit City bundled that awful Fireworks game... But this was the merchant's choice...

In this case, Microsoft is forcing the merchants to do the bundling.

Do you need buy.com Coupons [garlanger.com] ?

Re:Wow, this is so new - Evil Microsoft (2)

szcx (81006) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172230)

In this case, Microsoft is forcing the merchants to do the bundling.
Oh please. Microsoft aren't "forcing" merchants to do bundling. Read the fucking article.

Re:Wow, this is so new - Evil Microsoft (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172233)

I don't know about the others but it's fairly easy to buy a PlayStation 2 with no bundled games. In fact, it's rather hard to find one with bundled games.

Who's going to pay that??! (2)

Mr. Sketch (111112) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172166)

Who would actually pay 1200 bucks for a game console system? I didn't even spend that on my computer which probably has a bit more power and will run a lot more games. I think Microsoft is definatly pricing themselves out of the competition and hopefully the XBox will die a miserable death because of it. Hmmm, but maybe not after all, their operating systems are way overpriced, but they seem to be doing well in that market. I suppose it just depends on the marketing.

If it worked for the NeoGeo... (3, Funny)

dasunt (249686) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172187)


Oh wait, it didn't.


Although, OTOH, the NeoGeo is living a new, vibrant life in the wonderful land of Emulation.

Re:Who's going to pay that??! (1)

MatthewLovelace (465003) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172216)

I wouldn't pay $10 for XBox or any of the "games" Microsoft tries to foist on the public. Quite frankly, Final Fantasy XI was the last good videogame ever made; every game since then has depended primarily on flashy graphics and flashier propaganda, IMHO.

Wow... (1)

LilGuy (150110) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172167)

They were bragging about how many developers they had for their system, and now they're trying to monopolize their own game system. Crazy.

Buy the Sopranos Instead (1, Offtopic)

OmegaDan (101255) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172171)

The sopranos season 2 box set is due nov 6, two days before the xbox. Buy that and make HBO happy :) I guarantee it will be more entertaining then the xbox.

Re:Buy the Sopranos Instead (1)

RWC09 (473329) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172202)

Buy it ... or we'll take you for a boat ride just like Big Pussy !!

Don't Like It That Way? Don't Buy It That Way? (5, Insightful)

Drestin (82768) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172173)

I'm struggling to think of what else to write... If you don't want to buy the bundle then ... DON'T! Get the unbundled version. Is this that difficult to comprehend? Every other game maker creates bundles which are cheaper than all the components seperately -- why single out MS for this behavi- oh, I forgot, it's MS.

Re:Don't Like It That Way? Don't Buy It That Way? (1)

jpmoney (323533) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172210)

It would be nice to just not buy the bundle, but there is a problem:

Whereas, we are geeks;

therefore we want the newest technology.

We will want the X-Box the day it comes out, but with MS shipping around 600,000-700,000 (or something like that, I forget the exact number) you will probably see something along the lines of what happened with the PS2. All of the available units will be bundled and you simply wont be able to get one unbundled for several months.

But it's not OK when it's Microsoft! (3, Insightful)

NetJunkie (56134) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172176)

Everyone else does this. To pre-order a Gameboy Advance from EB you had to buy it and 2 games at the same time. I have no doubt it'll be the same way with the new consoles.

Console makers LOSE MONEY on the console itself. They only makem oney on the games. This makes a lot of sense. I'm sure you'll be able to get one without games if you want, just look around.

Re:But it's not OK when it's Microsoft! (1, Insightful)

MasterVidBoi (267096) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172205)

But it's not OK when it's Microsoft!

Exactly!

Monopolies are subject to different rules than companies not in a monopoly position. Even though Apple and Microsoft are trying exactly the same Bundling tatic (Apple has their mp3 player and movie authoring software), for M$, it is illegal, and for Apple, it's perfectly OK as an attempt to compete.

Monopolies are where the capitalist system breaks down. Monopolies and non-monopolies must be regulated under different rules, or a free market economy just doesn't work.

Except... (1)

NetJunkie (56134) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172223)

They aren't a monopoly here. As of today they aren't even a player in the console business. If people don't like this bundling they'll go by a GameCube that ships the same week....

Re:But it's not OK when it's Microsoft! (1)

Magila (138485) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172252)

Monopolies are subject to different rules than companies not in a monopoly position.

Except

Microsoft doesn't have a monopoly in the console market and can't realy influence it with thier OS monopoly. So in this case MS isn't any different from the other console makers.

Re:But it's not OK when it's Microsoft! (2)

AndrewHowe (60826) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172286)

Yawn.
Microsoft are not a monopoly in the games console market. They're about to try to break into it for the first time.

Re:But it's not OK when it's Microsoft! (1)

MasterVidBoi (267096) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172226)

But it's not OK when it's Microsoft!

Exactly!



Monopolies are subject to different rules than companies not in a monopoly position. Even though Apple and Microsoft are trying exactly the same Bundling tatic (Apple has their mp3 player and movie authoring software), for M$, it is illegal, and for Apple, it's perfectly OK as an attempt to compete.



Monopolies are where the capitalist system breaks down. Monopolies and non-monopolies must be regulated under different rules, or a free market economy just doesn't work.


Please ignore above (Read: damn Slashcode 2.2 to h (1)

MasterVidBoi (267096) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172250)

If you can read the post above, great. Because I can't.

I see it as a blank post. But, from the reply that I've gotten, I assume others can.

Please ignore this duplicate (and not butcher my karma in the process)

Re:But it's not OK when it's Microsoft! (1)

pjdepasq (214609) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172260)

Once the XMAS rush is over, I'd think we'd see them unbundled more often, to start to move them. Certainly they'll sell a ton for all the little kiddies for XMAS, but I'd think sales would drop off following that (to some degree) and that might prompt stores to get that introductory price down to some degree.

I could be wrong too....

Re:But it's not OK when it's Microsoft! (2)

zpengo (99887) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172281)

Exactly! Nobody complained about getting Super Mario Bros. and Duck Hunt with their Nintendo, even though the Microsoft games will probably be a buttload more fun.

Naked Woman Seeks Sex at Airport [slant-six.org]

Cheap? (1)

quartz (64169) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172177)

$1200? For a lousy game console which isn't more than a shrinked and crippled PC anyway? And they expect to sell any? Bwahaha. I think they got too used to being a monopoly and can't think straight anymore. This is a market where Microsoft doesn't mean squat, no matter how much money they spend maketing. I mean, who will buy their ridiculously overpriced (and possibly buggy, they do have a tradition after all) hardware when relatively cheap and long-established PlayStation and Nintendo already own the market?

I dunno, maybe *someone* does have a reason to spend $1200 for a game console, when that money can buy a pretty decent computer. I certainly don't.

Nothing New (5, Insightful)

szcx (81006) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172182)

Jesus, Michael. Scraping the bottom of the barrel for Microsoft bashing articles aren't you?

Console manufacturers have been doing this for years. Nintendo did this most recently with the Gameboy Advanced. It's Standard Operating Procedure. If you don't like it, don't buy it. It's not like you don't [ebgames.com] have [ebgames.com] options [ebgames.com].

The real reason for the new, higher comment IDs (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172183)

It makes deleting comments easier. In old times, if there had been a story without a #1 comment, or even #2 or #3, it would have been obvious something was deleted. With the new system, it will be much easier for people like michael [spectacle.org] to delete what they don't like without anybody noticing.

Ugh... (3, Informative)

CraigoFL (201165) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172184)

From the article:

"Loyal Xbox fans will have to dole out hundreds of dollars more than they expected to secure an Xbox," said Geoff Keighley, editor of Gameslice, an online game site.

Loyal Xbox fans? You mean all the ones who bought the previous version of the Xbox and played all the games that came out for it?

Folks, this is really simple: if you don't like the price, then don't buy it! If still you want one, wait a month or two until it drops in price and retailers start selling the base units without all the crap. If you *really* want one and can't wait, then don't complain about getting screwed over.

Game consoles are one area where Microsoft is the newcomer and underdog. They're spending a LOT of money to make sure that the Xbox is a success. If you don't like these sorts of tactics and want them to stop, send them a message by not buying the thing. MS will certainly notice if there's no great demand for their product, despite all their spending on advertising.

M$ Marketing, hmmm? (0, Troll)

+ECLG+FreshMaker (458324) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172193)

Everyone knows M$ marketing is a joke. I'd never believe that sheit. What a waste of money. Good old monkey boy [fuckedcompany.com] hard at work. I'm gonna wait 'till the radio shack down the street gets it and play it myself to see if it's any better than my 1.4ghz gForce 3.

Heh. Another [fuckedcompany.com] good laugh.

Your View on X-Box's Success? (1)

loggia (309962) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172203)

Am I the only person who thinks this is likely to be an embarrassing failure for Microsoft? It took Microsoft about 5 years to finally get something that could compete with Palm. Microsoft is not good at truly competing (read: I wonder what the buyer of this product wants) In the gaming industry, this will be death.

Are they manufacturing the hardware? They could truly have a massively expensive flop on their hands.

Gates Borg (1)

friedmud (512466) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172204)

What I don't understand is why this article got a Nintendo Controller for its icon instead of the Gates Borg!

This definitely seems like a bit of news that is more about Microsoft power than about the power of the X-Box IMO.

Fried

michael (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172208)

You are the worst hypocrite [spectacle.org] of all the Slashdot editors. Why don't you just piss off?

FYI (2)

CrusadeR (555) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172217)

Here's what one brick&mortar/online retailer is doing with regard to Xbox pre-orders:

Gamestop [gamestop.com]

The lowest level is 600 dollars, which seems a tad insane, even for the hardcore players who usually pre-order...

michael (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172218)

You [spectacle.org] are the worst hypocrite of all the Slashdot editors. Why don't you just piss off?

Uh... (2, Insightful)

James Foster (226728) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172219)

Wasn't the GameCube going to launch at $99??
Is the X-Box really worth 12 GameCubes?
At $1200, I wonder if even Bill Gates would bother getting one of these shitty X-Boxes. The games are by far worse than any other console. It got totally slammed by the press at the last E3.
Most hardcore gamers think the X-Box will turn out to be a poor console. So are Microsoft really expecting "casual gamers" to fork out $1200 for a console?
It seems Microsoft is approximately one target audience short of a commercially successful console.

michael (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172232)

You are [spectacle.org] the worst hypocrite of all the Slashdot editors. Why don't you just piss off?

Deja Vu all over again (5, Informative)

generic-man (33649) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172234)

On a whim a few weeks ago, I decided to shop around for a Game Boy Advance. Walking around in my local mall, I noticed a bunch of stores had signage up promoting the Advance, but were out of stock. Finally, the EBX had a couple of actual product boxes on display.

Me: Are those Game Boy Advance boxes for real, or are they just boxes?
Salesperson: (very smug) Yes, they're real.
Me: How much?
Salesperson: $200 and up.
Me: (staggered) I'm sorry, what?
Salesperson: Yup. $90 for the Game Boy, plus two games of your choice, plus our accessory kit, plus a two-year extended warranty.
Me: Can I just buy the Game Boy for $90?
Salesperson: No. It's our special package deal.

The following day, I went to a local non-chain place, and they had plenty of Game Boys in stock. I picked one up for $100, no strings attached. Nintendo may not have mandated these "bundles," but just about every chain store latched on.

Don't buy bundles, unless you like to get stuck with all sorts of stuff you don't want.

michael (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172242)

You are the [spectacle.org] worst hypocrite of all the Slashdot editors. Why don't you just piss off?

Not much for bill gates (0, Offtopic)

zargix (516095) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172251)

The average US citizen paying $1,200 is shelling the percent of money for one as Bill Gates paying slightly over a penny. Microsoft should really think of other people first.

michael (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172258)

You are the worst [spectacle.org] hypocrite of all the Slashdot editors. Why don't you just piss off?

How are you gentlemen? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172259)

For great goatsex!!!
And all who looked upon the goatsex man saw it was good.


* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *

g [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org] g

o / \ [slashdot.org] \ [slashdot.org]/ \ o

a| | [slashdot.org] \ | [slashdot.org]| a

t| `. [slashdot.org] | | [slashdot.org] : t

s` | [slashdot.org] | \| [slashdot.org] | s

e \ | / [slashdot.org] / \\\ --__ \\ : e

x \ \/ _--~~ [slashdot.org] ~--__| \ | x

* \ \_-~ [slashdot.org] ~-_\ | *

g \_ \ _.--------.______\| | g

o \ [slashdot.org]\______// [slashdot.org]_ [slashdot.org]___ [slashdot.org]_ (_(__> [slashdot.org] \ | [slashdot.org] o

a \ . C ___) ______ (_(____> | / a

t /\ | C ____)/ \ (_____> |_/ t

s / /\| C_____) | (___> / \ s

e | ( _C_____)\______/ // _/ / \ e

x | \ |__ \\_________// (__/ | x

* | \ \____) `---- --' [slashdot.org] | *

g | \_ ___\ /_ _/ | g

o | [slashdot.org] / [slashdot.org] | | [slashdot.org]\ | o

a | [slashdot.org] | / [slashdot.org] \ \ [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org] | a

t | [slashdot.org]/ / | [slashdot.org] | \ |t

s | / / \__/\___/ | |s

e | / / [slashdot.org] | | | [slashdot.org] |e

x | | [slashdot.org] | | [slashdot.org] | |x

* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *

Re:How are you gentlemen? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172287)

hahaha what a lamer!

Monopoly (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172262)

Tie'n two products togethermis illegal. The vendor would also have to sell a version of the system without the bundled in software. If not someone needs to sue.

michael (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172264)

You are the worst [spectacle.org] hypocrite of all the Slashdot editors. Why don't you just piss off?

Hello? You Work For Microsoft Now (4, Interesting)

PRickard (16563) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172265)

We're introducing this awesome new gaming platform, it's gonna be all the rage this fall. Everybody will be buying our console, and you can port your existing DreamCast and Windows games over to it easily. We're going to put Nintendo and Sony out of business, so don't even bother making a version for their consoles anymore.

Oh, and I forgot to mention... We're going to buy up half your competitors (at least 5 in the last 2 years), then release new versions of their well-known old titles (Marathon, MechWarrior, etc.) for our new console and bundle those with it at a "discount" so you can't hope to compete with us. Have a nice day.

Now the console game publishers can find out how it feels to be a Microsoft developer. The Behemoth is doing to this industry what it keeps doing to its Windows patners - promising them the world and then slowly screwing them over by bundling competing products and eating away at their market. Why can't one of these companies figure this stuff out?

Just to put things into perspective... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172266)


This article is classic FUD. There are many other product manufacturers that stipulate various restrictive conditions for the sale of their items.

Does anyone moan about Coca Colas' little monopolistic activities? Having worked in a supermarket, we were expressely forbidden from placing Pepsi products on the same shelf (or even over) as products made by Coke. Coca Cola bought shelf space through discounts to the store and even had the requirement of a full Coca Cola shelf with no other drinks, even from the same company.

Does anyone seriously believe that Microsoft will put games consoles packages on the market costing $1200 and somehow (I don't know, you tell me) force X-Box buyers to buy them? The price given is clear FUD. I bet the reporter used the following formula:

1x X-Box $299
20x games Microsoft wants people to buy @ $45ea
--------
$1200!!!! OMG! Lets write an article!

Many companies buy shelf space in stores. That's how the market works.

something up their sleve (2)

BroadbandBradley (237267) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172267)

I just know MS has some kind of tie-in to eveything else planned for their Xbox, I don't know what it is yet, but hey've got something up their sleve.
I'm an old nintendohead, I got me a PS2 last week, it's good (I think Game Cube will be better), but it'll be better once I can boot a linux web-browsing terminal on my TV set. I predict having Linux compatability will become the norm and this will boost any console that can run Linux. This also means developers can develop games for Linux that run on consoles and PCs. Sorry MS, it's too late for you.

Who else are they trying to piss off? (1)

its_me_ken_lai (459571) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172271)

They pissed off Sony and Nintendo, and now they want to piss off the consumers and worst of all, other game publishers.

Way to go M$!

michael (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172272)

You are the worst hypocrite [spectacle.org] of all the Slashdot editors. Why don't you just piss off?

So what's the problem? (2, Insightful)

tspilman (135105) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172273)

http://www.gamestop.com/default.asp?sect=1160

You've got options... just don't buy it. I mean give me a break... it's not like their forcing you to install XP or something! They give you a bundle with some games, an extra controler, a memory card, and the DVD addon... all things that most consumers would be buying anyways. It's their console.. they could bundle a Kia with it if they want... just don't buy it. Hell.. I'm impressed that they have a bundle with *14* games avalible on release day in the first place. I am gonna buy one, i'll just wait till i find a bundle i like or just not get one. Tom

Wow, I hope they fix that bug (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172274)

plain old text as a default?

The goatsex man deserves better!

* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *
g [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org] g
o / \ [slashdot.org] \ [slashdot.org]/ \ o
a| | [slashdot.org] \ | [slashdot.org]| a
t| `. [slashdot.org] | | [slashdot.org] : t
s` | [slashdot.org] | \| [slashdot.org] | s
e \ | / [slashdot.org] / \\\ --__ \\ : e
x \ \/ _--~~ [slashdot.org] ~--__| \ | x
* \ \_-~ [slashdot.org] ~-_\ | *
g \_ \ _.--------.______\| | g
o \ [slashdot.org]\______// [slashdot.org]_ [slashdot.org]___ [slashdot.org]_ (_(__> [slashdot.org] \ | [slashdot.org] o
a \ . C ___) ______ (_(____> | / a
t /\ | C ____)/ \ (_____> |_/ t
s / /\| C_____) | (___> / \ s
e | ( _C_____)\______/ // _/ / \ e
x | \ |__ \\_________// (__/ | x
* | \ \____) `---- --' [slashdot.org] | *
g | \_ ___\ /_ _/ | g
o | [slashdot.org] / [slashdot.org] | | [slashdot.org]\ | o
a | [slashdot.org] | / [slashdot.org] \ \ [slashdot.org] [slashdot.org] | a
t | [slashdot.org]/ / | [slashdot.org] | \ |t
s | / / \__/\___/ | |s
e | / / [slashdot.org] | | | [slashdot.org] |e
x | | [slashdot.org] | | [slashdot.org] | |x
* g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x * g o a t s e x *

Slashdot sucks (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172280)

[goatse.cx]For greater justice.

Microsoft sucks! (-1)

Pr0n K1ng (160688) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172283)

You do realize that this is just so they can have complete control in another market as well, right? Once they get all this money in from the pre sales of the console, they'll be able to buy up a few more game developpers. Once that's done, who will be left to develop for Sony, and Nintedo consoles?

Slashdot is just as fucked up as ever. the front page showed 26 commments on this story. I get in here, and there's 86. Fuck!

Oh well, back to downloading pr0n...

Pr0n K1ng

Hey sucker! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172305)

What happened to your hidden sid? That one was funny.

Bundling at the Restaurant (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172284)

Do all of you anti-bundling bigots expect a discount if you ask for your steak without the fries that come with it?

Michael, Troll Editor.

Slashdot sucks (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 12 years ago | (#2172291)

[did.you] [know.that] [slashdot.sucks] ?

xbox.com jams by browser (Netscape) - go figure (1)

_am99_ (445916) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172294)

But it works fine in IE. On purpose or not, they never cease to amaze me.

Similar things happened when the PS2 came out (2, Insightful)

theancient1 (134434) | more than 12 years ago | (#2172303)

The article doesn't seem to mention if Microsoft is giving bigger incentives for bigger packages. Are retailers creating $1200 bundles because it will get them better marketing, or because the retailers themselves want bigger sales? And did Sony do something similar for the Playstation 2 as well? I remember that up until a couple months after the PS2's launch, you couldn't seem to find a PS2 console without game bundles. Everyone wanted to sell their PS2s with three extra games, for $700 (Canadian.) The one or two stores that didn't bundle never had them in stock.

I always figured it was better for the retailer to sell bundles like this. "A PS2 by itself is no good; you're going to need to start your game library too. Why not buy them with us?" That's when I would say, "of course I need games, but the games I want aren't the ones you're trying to sell me. Can't I make my own bundle?" It made me wonder whether they had some marketing deal with some third party to bundle those specific games. It's obviously good for the retailer to entice you to buy your first games with them, but what's wrong with giving you a choice?

Remember when consoles came with a "free" game? That's how the Nintendo came to be forever linked with Mario, and Sega with Sonic. Some critics have pointed out that Playstation doesn't have an "identity," because it lacks its own character. But even the original Playstation came with a demo disc -- the PS2, the Dreamcast, the XBox, all come with nothing. After buying a Dreamcast, I had to pay for Sonic on top of that -- it seemed like a hidden price increase.
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