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"Microsoft Killed My Pappy"

timothy posted about 8 months ago | from the and-in-my-day-we-just-modulated-the-electricity-with-our-tongues dept.

Microsoft 742

theodp writes "A conversation with an angry young developer prompts Microsoft Program Manager Scott Hanselman to blog about 'Microsoft Haters: The Next Generation.' 'The ones I find the most interesting,' says Hanselman, are the 'Microsoft killed my Pappy' people, angry with generational anger. My elders hated Microsoft so I hate them. Why? Because, you wronged me.' The U.S. and Japan managed to get over the whole World War II thing, Hanselman notes, so why can't people manage to get past the Microsoft antitrust thing, which was initiated in 1998 for actions in 1994? 'At some point you let go,' he suggests, 'and you start again with fresh eyes.' Despite the overall good-humored, why-can't-we-get-along tone of his post, Hanselman can't resist one dig that seems aimed at putting things into perspective for those who would still Slashdot like it's 1999: 'I wonder if I can swap out Chrome from Chrome OS or Mobile Safari in iOS.'"

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Change (5, Informative)

amiga3D (567632) | about 8 months ago | (#46316233)

People can't get past MS's sins because MS never really changed. They still bend the rules until they're warped and often just snap. They are still they same company in many ways.

Re:Change (2, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 8 months ago | (#46316277)

You'd have to be some kind of fucking moron to just throw up your hands and pretend that Microsoft doesn't deserve its reputation. Or, you know, a shill. Or of course both.

Guess which kind of person wrote this article?

Re:Change (2, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | about 8 months ago | (#46316337)

Guess which kind of person wrote this article?

The landscape has changed. And some people want to be optimistic about it.

But. Before it was MS vs. the world. And we thought it was bad. But right now it is effectively MS vs. Google, which might be much worse. Because duopolies generally are worse than monopolies.

You know you have a problem when an Apple iDevice out of box has *more* features than that of competitors.

P.S. To mess it all up, I think that Facebook should release their own (mobile) OS. That's probably the reason why Samsung tries hard to bring another open OS on the market: to prevent duopoly in the mobile market.

Re:Change (5, Funny)

Sponge Bath (413667) | about 8 months ago | (#46316459)

The landscape has changed. And some people want to be optimistic about it.

The same people are waiting for Kim Jong Un to make reforms in North Korea. His uncle is skeptical.

Re:Change (0)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 8 months ago | (#46316397)

Compared to whom - if you think that Microsoft behaved badly you obviously have no idea about the industrial history of the USA - read up on Bethlehem steel for starters - And I have heard of companies contemporary with MS who did far naughtier things.

Re:Change (4, Insightful)

drinkypoo (153816) | about 8 months ago | (#46316481)

Compared to whom

Compared to an honest, responsible person.

I don't really give a fuck if the Nazis killed more people or whatever. That doesn't absolve Microsoft.

Re:Change (1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 8 months ago | (#46316599)

Really do as I suggest and read up on the USA's industrial history I wont mention which tech company who double crossed a union buster who was later found dead in a motel room?

Compered to the stealing of vested options by silver lake partners MS is small beer.

I have worked for a company whose internal investigation team was so feared that people would resign out of fear if one of their staff was even investigated - and this department now have to follow the same or better procedures for a formal police investigation because of past misdemeanors - reed Bruce Scheniers resignation statement and see how carefully talks about one particular division.

Re:Change (3, Insightful)

ThePhilips (752041) | about 8 months ago | (#46316289)

Yes. I thought the introduction of user forums would finally help MS to close the gap with the the users. But it didn't. Threads gets deleted. Bugs get labeled as "features". Botched OSes gets released.

Re:Change (1)

ILongForDarkness (1134931) | about 8 months ago | (#46316575)

Bugs get labelled as features usually because some big 3rd party makes software that depends on it. Would you rather that your autocad, Adobe, SAP stopped working and the bug was fixed or that the bug gets shimmed around and hopefully going forward everyone uses the new better API?

Botched OSs I'll give you that one. every 2 or 3 are a hit the ones in between make you hate life.

Re:Change (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316291)

People can't get past MS's sins because MS never really changed. They still bend the rules until they're warped and often just snap. They are still they same company in many ways.

I work for a software company that need to relate to/work with MS, and Apple, and Google. And from our end they have definitely changed, and that is what I'm hearing from others in the industry as well. They have learned a lesson and are much easier to work with, more flexible and communicative, less arrogant. Apple and Google on the other hand, from an industry perspective they have really taken over the "my way or the highway" arrogance leadership MS used to have, are difficult to work with and can do things that torpedo partners, without communication or remorse. The stuff MS used to do. Not an end-user perspective, but still, a major change of hats.

Re:Change (4, Insightful)

0123456 (636235) | about 8 months ago | (#46316313)

"I know he used to beat me, but this time he's really changed."

Re:Change (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316421)

"I know he used to beat me, but this time he's really changed."

When you can say that about all the major players, then it matters who are beating you now and who did it several decades ago...

Re:Change (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316399)

http://tech.slashdot.org/story... [slashdot.org]

You're right...Microsoft really has changed.

They've learned a lesson? Would that be buy more political power so this doesn't happen again or just don't get caught?

I have no dealings with MS except as an end user but from my perspective they've not changed at all and almost every decision they seem to make reinforces that.

Re:Change (1)

skids (119237) | about 8 months ago | (#46316455)

much easier to work with, more flexible and communicative, less arrogant.

Still they have a long way to go. Agree that other vendors have the same issues. However, with the amount of MS installed, working around their derps still occupies an inordinate amount of my time (25% of my last year was spent forklifting a system whose sole purpose is to clean up after Microsoft's mess), so they present the most obvious neck to strangle.

The thing I hate the most about their products they do not have a monopoly on: selling managers framework systems whose major purpose seems to be to coax the customer into a situation where buying more stuff is the easiest solution. Of course the systems do stuff there is already OpenSource to deal with, but of course they add that one little feature not available in open source that sounds real good in a sales pitch, while not being nearly as flexible underneath where it matters, because you just simply cannot be flexible if the people applying your product are working blind.

Re:Change (5, Insightful)

Immerman (2627577) | about 8 months ago | (#46316341)

Hear hear. I can "get over" the German complicity in the Holocaust because the people that actually committed the atrocities are mostly dead, and the country has gone to great lengths to reduce the chances it will ever happen again.

Microsoft on the other hand is still mostly the same people continuing to act in mostly the same way, including going far out of their way to attempt end-runs around any attempt to limit their potential abusiveness, even at the risk of great societal costs in unrelated areas (Completely undermining the integrity of the IEEE Standards Association to get OOXML approved springs to mind)

Re:Change (0)

Megol (3135005) | about 8 months ago | (#46316461)

Hear hear. I can "get over" the German complicity in the Holocaust because the people that actually committed the atrocities are mostly dead, and the country has gone to great lengths to reduce the chances it will ever happen again.

Comparing genocide with doing business? Only on the Internet!

Microsoft on the other hand is still mostly the same people continuing to act in mostly the same way, including going far out of their way to attempt end-runs around any attempt to limit their potential abusiveness, even at the risk of great societal costs in unrelated areas (Completely undermining the integrity of the IEEE Standards Association to get OOXML approved springs to mind)

Completely undermining?!? You should really look up how standards are made, how many of those there are and why OOXML isn't worse than anything. Really, why is that a problem for you unless you are a rabid MS-hater?

Re:Change (2)

Sun (104778) | about 8 months ago | (#46316555)

Completely undermining [consortiuminfo.org] .

Shachar

Re:Change (3, Informative)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | about 8 months ago | (#46316501)

s a business tactic, Microsoft's behaviors have been often very effective. I'd refrain from mentioning older thefts by Microsoft except these are at the core of what they sell now: The NT kernel, at the core of Windows 8 and Windows Server, was extensively VMS code stolen from DEC, and DEC bent bankrupt after that. The browser standards wars continue to include "embrace, extend, and break compatibility". The entire "OOXML" debacle of "publishing open standards" for Microsoft Office document standards, then ignoring them for actual MS Office software is an ongoing example. Microsoft Office violates its own standards, and the standards were themselves corrupted, to allow Microsoft to claim "open standards" compatibility which it doesn't actually have.

And then there's "Trusted Computing". The entire ongoing project is not aimed at user privacy: it's aimed at vendor lockin for software, data, and even hardware. And the private keys, including keys to revoke other keys, are held almost entirely in escrow by Microsoft, with no usable guarantees of the keys protection from wholesale abuse.

Re:Change (2)

Z00L00K (682162) | about 8 months ago | (#46316385)

The anti-trust case was so watered down that it was essentially invalid and more for show than really important. Nothing did change.

Re:Change (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316419)

They also were never really punished.

They should have been split into multiple companies. Execs should have gone to jail. But nope. The whole thing was dropped.

Re:Change (4, Insightful)

peragrin (659227) | about 8 months ago | (#46316587)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2... [theregister.co.uk]

This is has happened recently.

Microsoft hasn't changed, they just get caught less, and have currently have incompetent(ballmer) Leadership.

Until Microsoft stops trying to kill everything that's not microsoft and actually adopt open standards they will be horrible. Apple is just as bad but apple has to use more open standards in order to compete.

Interesting (-1, Offtopic)

castrox (630511) | about 8 months ago | (#46316235)

FUCK BETA.

Re:Interesting (0, Offtopic)

GoJays (1793832) | about 8 months ago | (#46316259)

I would rather Slashdot like it is 1999, than deal with Beta.

Fuck Beta!

Re:Interesting (1, Insightful)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46316403)

I don't know really. Soylent News is still stuck with D1 and it is a bit crusty. Moderating and replying takes you to another page, for example.

Re:Interesting (0)

ButchDeLoria (2772751) | about 8 months ago | (#46316317)

Dice made Beta because of Windows 8!

Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (4, Informative)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 8 months ago | (#46316243)

The thing about not being able to swap out IE was, that Microsoft claimed it could not be done - and was a true monopoly at the time, where it basically affected everyone.

With Sarai/OSX, it's a whole different matter - OSX does not have 90% market penetration. And if it did, Apple could not claim you could not swap out WebKit from the system since it's open source that's well documented - in fact you CAN swap in more recent, or custom, builds of Webkit into OSX quite easily.

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (4, Interesting)

marsu_k (701360) | about 8 months ago | (#46316331)

Reading comprehension WTF - he was talking about Mobile Safari/iOS. While it is true that you can have alternativish-browsers on iOS, they must use the underlying Webkit component and a markedly inferior JS engine. So there's an element of truth in the statement.

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (2)

marsu_k (701360) | about 8 months ago | (#46316349)

Meant to type FTW. Oh well, the point stands.

Further comprehension required (1)

SuperKendall (25149) | about 8 months ago | (#46316427)

he was talking about Mobile Safari/iOS

You can swap it out if you've jailbroken, or simply write your own app with any engine you like (which works fine for personal or enterprise use).

AND Webkit is built by contributions from multiple companies - so it's not like Apple is bundling anything like the totally 100% proprietary IE.

IE was in at the level of browser features on top of what WebKit is. People can and do write other browsers, with other features, that go on the app store - only rendering and the javascript engine is the same.

But the monopoly point still stands regardless, iOS is not a monopoly so it's absurd to claim about a bundled browser.

Re:Further comprehension required (2)

marsu_k (701360) | about 8 months ago | (#46316525)

You can swap it out if you've jailbroken, or simply write your own app with any engine you like (which works fine for personal or enterprise use).

This point I've never quite fully understood - people keep complaining about how insecure Android is (which is a debate for another thread). Yet when discussing shortcomings of iOS, the answer is always "jailbreak" (which might or might not be available, tethered or perhaps not). As it is, at work I've been developing an app for iPad that is HTML5-based. And the performance is worse than what Mobile Safari would offer. If you want your HTML5 app available on the App store, this is a fact you'll just have to accept. This is also the reason you shouldn't expect Firefox on iOS anytime soon.

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (1)

ohnocitizen (1951674) | about 8 months ago | (#46316499)

Bingo. He's talking about mobile. Even more egregious - would you have accepted "but you CAN swap out the version of IE you use, so it's all good" as an argument that MS wasn't forcing their browser on users? No? Then why use it to defend Apple?

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (1)

TheRealMindChild (743925) | about 8 months ago | (#46316339)

The thing about not being able to swap out IE was, that Microsoft claimed it could not be done

I couldn't be done. I know, I know... 98lite. That replaced Win98 shell with Windows 95's. It was no longer Windows 98. All of the web panels you would interact with the system were gone. Active Desktop was broke. Even today, your winvista/7/8* rely on IE to make the shell work. It keeps from having to have two sets of code to render icons/graphics and having competing scripting anchors. The shell is a BIG part of the OS. I'm not sure most of the complainers actually know what they are saying

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (3, Informative)

geoskd (321194) | about 8 months ago | (#46316485)

The shell is a BIG part of the OS. I'm not sure most of the complainers actually know what they are saying

Only because MS designed it that way, and their reasons for designing that way had nothing to do with providing a "better" solution for the end user. It had everything to do with designing a system that was so tightly integrated that various parts could not be substituted. MS wanted to do everything they could to prevent third parties from offering replacements for part of their OS, as that would ultimately undermine their monopoly. A properly designed system has all of the parts compartmentalized so that individual parts can be replaced so long as they conform to the apropriate APIs. This is true for programs, electrical designs, buildings, mechanical structures, everything engineering related. MS deliberatly ignored centuries of engineering best practices to build their monstrocity. Just look how difficult it has been to create a stable eumlator for windows (wine). We have excelent DOS emulators, excelent PS2, Wii, etc emulators, but Windows remains the one place we do not have a good emulator. This is because it was built to be belidgerant...

MS was never properly punished for their behavior, either by the market, nor the regulatory bodies. Consequently, they think they are above the law (Hence Windows 8). I for one will not be satisifed until MS is wiped from this earth and Gates and Balmer are safely away from their Ill gotten fortune.

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316585)

tbh active desktop was broke to start with :)

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (1)

Impy the Impiuos Imp (442658) | about 8 months ago | (#46316367)

That IE could not be removed was a flat-out lie.

Microsoft was just done with their whole COM interface stuff, and IBrowser or whatever was their flagship example of being able to plug and play a browser at the deep guts level. A high-level app wrapper was nothing.

Now if government should be on the business of making them remove it is another issue. Are you justified in lying to people wielding power they shouldn't?

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316381)

How do you figure that the existence of BeOS, MacOS and Linux made Microsoft a "true" monopoly. According to the letter of the law, it was no more a monopoly then as it is now.

in fact you CAN swap in more recent, or custom, builds of Webkit into OSX quite easily.

Can you swap it out for say, Gecko or Presto and have everything still work?
You could swap in a newer version of IE into Windows, too, you know. Except the article is talking about browsers, you're talking about updating the rendering engine. The author isn't wrong, that you throw all reading comprehension and sense out the window when it comes to Microsoft just proves the point.

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (4, Interesting)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 8 months ago | (#46316409)

You don't know the definition of what a monopoly is. Perhaps YOU should read the letter of the law. The fact is Microsoft forced manufacturers in Asia to drop BeOS and Linux desktops and laptops because if they did not do that their Windows licensing costs would increase. In fact that is the reason some people think Sony dropped their laptop business altogether. They just don't want to bother dealing with Microsoft anymore if they can avoid it.

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316415)

Scott's point was Safari on iOS, not OSX. I'm a faithful Microsoft developer and an Apple fan-boy currently reading Jobs biography and iOS was his dream of a computer, not OSX. Completely closed so users can't muck with his vision. In the world according to Jobs you either liked what he did or you were a shithead. As much as I like the iOS devices for what they do today, I am glad they weren't the seed of the computer revolution. In that case I am thankful for Microsoft but they did get too big for their britches in the late 90's and got slapped hard. Microsoft today is not your pappy's Microsoft.

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (1)

Megol (3135005) | about 8 months ago | (#46316505)

It was true in a way - MS used IE for the most of the graphical shell. What they did when they were forced to change was separating the browser part from the rest of the engine and allow users to change the visible browser part. Most of IE still exists as a framework for the graphical shell.

Re:Disingenuous to point of Safari swap (2)

itsdapead (734413) | about 8 months ago | (#46316559)

With Sarai/OSX, it's a whole different matter

For starters, you can find Opera in the official Mac App Store, Chrome & Opera in the official iOS store... Prior to the App Store you could always easily find alternative browsers via the 'Get software...' links that Apple included.

OSX does not have 90% market penetration.

And, since we're talking about 1999, guess what the default browser on Mac OS was back then [wikipedia.org] ? Clue: it had a logo like an 'e' with a whoosh around it, and wasn't Safari. Kids today don't remember what a stranglehold MS had on PCs in the late 90s.

Screw microsoft (1)

coolmanxx (150620) | about 8 months ago | (#46316245)

The reality is, the playing field is wide-open. No longer are we locked into using micro-crap. Sure, we now have evil facebook and evil Google, even evil Apple...but at least we options! So I'll say it again, screw microsoft! You killed my father! I shall avenge thee!

Versions of windows prior to XP. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316253)

Try any version of DOS or version of windows prior to 2000. Nothing will ever be able to fix that pain.

It stops when chairs stop flying (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316255)

Developers need to feel safe. Nobody wants chair being thrown at them.

When justice is done (1)

duckintheface (710137) | about 8 months ago | (#46316383)

The important date is not when the actionable behavior took place (1994) or then the anti-trust action began (1998). The important question is "when was justice done?" and the only possible answer is NOT YET. Microsoft stole all it's online market share from the inventor of the browser, Netscape. The only reasonable justice would be to return their online market share to what it was in 1994. I think that was about 20%, if we are being charitable to M$. So M$ should have been banned from selling any product that accessed the internet until thier total market share returned to 20%. That has not happened... yet.

Ye Gods (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316265)

"People can't seem to get past the antitrust trial"? The one where Microsoft forged evidence and pissed off the first judge so bad that she was replaced on account of the bias they had created? The one that ultimately said, clearly, YES microsoft's business practices are bad for both the individual and the nation?

Yeah, poor Stalin! People never could get past those purge-things he got famous for.

Re:Ye Gods (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316335)

Yeah, poor Stalin! People never could get past those purge-things he got famous for.

Libtards have no trouble getting past purges, famines, deportations and everything else Stalin, Lenin and Mao are responsible for. Usually they'll rationalize these with equivalence arguments, bandying around their favorite US atrocities, ignoring the orders of magnitude differences in severity, duration or numbers of victims.

Re:Ye Gods (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316359)

And Hanselwoman has the balls too note some hegemonic imposition which in reality parallels with microsoft-imprialism-in-the-market....
The yanks are doing military drills in north-western Japan same day as the Samsung-lovers are protesting the Japanese claims to the Dogyu island, which were awarded to Japan by General Macarthur.........
iphone for me! FOK, forgot about illegal israeli primesense,akamai,amdocs,onavo,etc,wtc, for a moment.....ARRRRRGH!

Perspective on retro Cromwell`s turtling of "the edict" folly `twas!

Now, back-to-the-wall promotion of Boycott,Divestments,Sanctions, with an IT twist`and`shout!

Re:Ye Gods (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316413)

FOK beta, and FOK aipac....
oh, hold-up.... FUCK AIPAC!
go B,D,S YEAH!

Life's a bitch (1)

TempleOS (3394245) | about 8 months ago | (#46316267)

Jesus says a strong man's good are safe until a stronger one comes along. Just imagine moral if you are literally fighting God! LOL God says, "spoken transcribe convicted Circumcise studied initiation acquaintance lost widow awfulness shows mightest accomplished prejudice Simplicianus reproves capacity respects killeth Death haphazard loves variations counsels heed "

Fresh eyes don't make MSF look any better. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316275)

Fuck Dicedot Beta and I hope its proponents die in a fire.

Demands (1)

TempleOS (3394245) | about 8 months ago | (#46316305)

When God is manifest to the World and He claims this operating system, publically, here's what I want: * VMware to again support PC Speaker and provide emulation if no PC Speaker is present. * Windows and Linux will support RedSea file system so I can get rid of 2,000 lines of redundant, blemished code -- FAT32 and ISO9660. God's temple must be perfect. I view redundant code that performs the same function as imperfect. More than one filesystem type is bad, not good! ::/Kernel/Dsk/FileSysRedSea.CPP ::/Kernel/Dsk/FileSysFAT.CPP :1004 ::/Kernel/Dsk/FileSysISO1.CPP :306 ::/Adam/Boot/DskCDDVD.CPP :536 * No secure boot. TempleOS is a additional operating system that must be used along-side Windows or Linux, not as a replacement. It must dual boot. * Mandate to PC hardware manufacturers: ATA/ATAPI PIO must work. * PS2 emulated Keyboard and Mouse must work. The BIOS must enable these. * VMware should allow ATAPI to connect real CD/DVD hardware. * Perhaps, VMware can enable faster than standard x86 IN/OUT instruction timing for ATA/ATAPI PIO, so the bandwidth isn't as bad. * VMware and others should list TempleOS as one of the official 64-bit operating systems. * Windows and Linux should support TempleOS .GRA graphics files. These are just right-side-up .BMP files with 8-bit pixs 4-bits of color and transparency, with no palette. Compression comes from the RedSea .Z LZW compression. (Let me know when you want it.) DCSave(), GRAWrite(), DCLoad(), and GRARead(). ::/Kernel/Compress.CPP In other words, all hardware and BIOSes must support TempleOS as a native and as a virtual system, dual booted with Windows or Linux. It would be neat if TempleOS were burned into BIOS ROMs in the factory, or maybe Intel CPU chips, in factory! My hope is that it will be finished and largely unchanging for centuries. I need a good dictionary, first. Maybe, we leave the dictionary out. I do not intend to ever support UEFI. That monstrocity uses elf and various propriatary graphics formats.

Re:Demands (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 8 months ago | (#46316423)

Is that the introduction to your new "computer architecture and virtual machines" book?

fake premise (4, Insightful)

Haven (34895) | about 8 months ago | (#46316307)

Nobody actually cares about the anti-trust case.

The general public doesn't like Microsoft because their Windows decides to reboot their computer for updates with no warning while they are working or giving a presentation.

The user experience for Microsoft products is generally pretty terrible.

Re:fake premise (2)

Vellmont (569020) | about 8 months ago | (#46316513)

Yes, exactly. Windows 8 is highly hated. Take away the user paradign for the last 30 years and what do you expect?

I occasionally have to use Windows, and I'm amazed that the user experience has actually gotten much worse from about 10 years ago. I can't figure out how to use the damn thing anymore! Office was perfected about 10 years ago, but yet MS just keeps changing the UI around and re-selling the thing over and over, then tying it into other MS products so you have to buy the damn thing again.

What would happen if the basic way to drive a car changed radically and people had to re-learn how to drive when they bought a new car? Chaos. But yet that's what happens, and massive productivity is lost every year. Outlook and Exchange are probbably the worst MS products ever created. But businesses are somehow addicted to them like heroin. Email itself is a pretty shitty experience these days, but MS manages to make it even worse.

I sure don't think about the anti-trust case from 20 years ago. I think about how the MS monopoly has created bad products that dominated the landscape as MS slowly but surely becomes irrelvent and fades from prominance. I know a lot of non-technical people. Nobody really loves them, some detest them, and almost everyone at least finds them distatesful. We're in the middle of a massive MS decline in power and influence, but the erosion process hasn't been etched away enough quite yet to become irrelevent.

The pattern is the same old thing. (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316311)

Seeing a pattern NOT change, doesn't exactly tell folks their opinion should change.
Go try OneDrive or SkyDrive.... from Linux, or BSD, or.... and.. oh yeah, a "cloud" service is platform agnostic... Uh huh. That there sets the BS flag.

Never forget! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316321)

Microsoft killed my grandfather's FORTRAN compiler, my father's use of Dynamic Data Exchange, is threatening my venerable copy of Windows XP, and still has less than 10 women developers working on the core operating system. They must be avenged, and this legacy of evil must be destroyed!

ie bundling was just a small part (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316323)

I think that the m$ businesss model is responsible for much of the direction of the modern software industry. while profit maximising at the cost of the 'customer' is now considered acceptable, that doesn't mean it should be condoned.

reagardless of the state of the industry, frankly, slashdot was way better in 1999. even 2009.

I rarely comment, but the posting of so much crap to slashdot that is to my eyes disengenuos shill corporate apologist bullshit is making it less and less of a place I want to visit.

oh, and fuck beta.

Re:ie bundling was just a small part (1)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 8 months ago | (#46316441)

the posting of so much crap to slashdot that is to my eyes disengenuos shill corporate apologist bullshit is making it less and less of a place I want to visit

You bet. Plus what is up with popups for cookies that you can only get out of by either closing the window or pressing 'I Agree'. Fuck you Slashdot.

Bundling + monopoly is the issue (4, Insightful)

jareth-0205 (525594) | about 8 months ago | (#46316329)

*Fuck*. Why, after apparently 20 years, are we still having to explain this! So-called professional, intelligent people can't seem to grasp the fact that *bundling* is not problem. Bundling AND being in a monopoly position to enforce that bundle *is*. It's a logical AND. We're not talking mental gymnastics here, and you've had 20 years to understand, I would have thought a MS employee would especially be wanting to understand this. Jesus.

And don't think Google are somehow immune from this, Chrome on ChromeOS is fine since it's not in any way in a dominant position on operating systems, but using search monopoly to push their own products does have them currently in trouble with the EU.

Protest Much? (1)

fermion (181285) | about 8 months ago | (#46316345)

MS provides a solution for some problems, but also provides problems that are difficult to solve. These have not gone away. For instance I still have to use websites for work that were originally designed when MS was trying to take over the Internet, placing arbitrary restrictions on which browsers, you know IE only, could be used. The sins of outlook will never be lived down.

MS did a wonderful job providing management tools for independent machines that could given to worker drones but centrally controlled. This was a critical feature for some customers. They provide a reasonable value in productivity tools for some customers. OTOH, their path to profit still seems to be based in crushing any innovative force that might weaken their market dominance.

MS provides, IMHO, no tools that are useful to anyone that is not a corporate hack. The one innovation they have come up with in the past decade, Kinect, does not seem to be moving forward after 4 years of development. I mean how hard would it be to incorporate it into Surface to provide gesture based input?

Which is my issue with MS. They different parts do not seem to play well together. There appears to a top level desire to place MS concerns for profit above all others, meaning there can be no real risks take to meet customer needs. And if this is just taken a a person with generational grudges, well that just proves my point that MS cannot provide useful product because they just think they are perfect and in no need of modifications.

Because nothing much change. (4, Interesting)

SuricouRaven (1897204) | about 8 months ago | (#46316355)

I will admit that Microsoft's security is no longer the joke it was back in the 9x era, when they had only ineptly bolted multi-user support onto a single-user OS and suffered from their devotion to software backwards compatibility. But their business approach seems to have hardly altered. They still make heavy use of deliberate incompatibility, backroom deals and promotion via bundling. They are reluctant to support any technology they don't have the patents for (witness the h264 debacle, or the continued lack of native Vorbis support, or their pushing of the patent-encumbered exFAT filesystem, or IE's inability to handle animated PNG) and will support open standards only when they are so dominant as to leave no other option. The company is just very aggressive and underhanded in their approach to business.

Re:Because nothing much change. (0)

cheesybagel (670288) | about 8 months ago | (#46316475)

Yes exFAT alone is enough to slap this moron MS apologist in the face. Explain how that is something irrelevant Mr MS apologist.

Seventy years (5, Insightful)

Chris Mattern (191822) | about 8 months ago | (#46316357)

Germany and Japan haven't invaded anybody in seventy years. Meanwhile, Microsoft is, even as we speak attempting to ram home an opaque, binary blob document format, OOXML (hilariously called "Open") as a standard over Open Document Format to cement MS Office's lock on office suite software.

Re:Seventy years (-1)

mjwalshe (1680392) | about 8 months ago | (#46316411)

I think some of the PIGS Greece in particular are not exactly happy about the reforms that Germany demanded for the bail out

Re:Seventy years (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316523)

You OBVIOUSLY are a nazi-synchronizer, HOW COULD YOU FORGET THE SIEMENS AND SONY ROOTKITS!
please do not even TRY to compare the evil Japanese-and-Germans with the akamia,amdocs,onavo,primesense,and WMP-updater. SHYSSE!

How's the pay? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316361)

For shilling for Microsoft these days? Sounds like a pretty safe career path.

People have "let go" multiple times only to get shafted over and over again.

Distrust (2)

chthon (580889) | about 8 months ago | (#46316365)

Me: distrusting Microsoft since 1990.

Of all signs warning not to trust MS stands out for me the following.

I was at my first job, PC technician and we installed Macs for the graphical sector, and Compaq servers for Netware installation, also for the same.

For Apple and Compaq, I had to follow courses so that the company could get its preferenced dealer status.

In the income of the building, there hung a small plaque, Authorised Microsoft Dealer with Gates' signature. At first I thought that my boss had also done a course for MS to get this plaque.

However, in the course of time I saw that companies did not need to do much to get this plaque from MS. That's the day I realised the extent of Gates' snake oil dealership. Never trusted 'em from that day onward.

Windows 8 (3, Insightful)

banbeans (122547) | about 8 months ago | (#46316371)

Windows 8 shows MS has not changed one bit.
They still try and stuff crap down the throats of consumers and break stuff for developers and call it great.
Hmm wonder is any ex-Microsoft execs work for Dice.

I loved window for 19 years before I was a hater (1)

Bleek II (878455) | about 8 months ago | (#46316387)

It seems like MS is trying to find ways not to blame Windows 8. I was a Windows user since 3.1 at the age of 5. I've used every version including XP Pro x64. I'm a pragmatist because I use computers for productivity. So when 8 came out with a consumption rather than production oriented UI it was time for a divorce. Yes I could have stuck with lovely 7 for a slow death but I wanted to hurt my Ex for ditching productivity. Productivity is the only place for my loyalty. Hate MS for trying to turn my work tool into a media consumption machine worse than a Mac? Yes, I think I will. Long live the Cinnamon / KDE.

Itsatrap (2)

mattr (78516) | about 8 months ago | (#46316393)

Someone had to say it ;)

Re:Itsatrap (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316473)

and may i ask from whence the update came?
"Run for the hills, cross the river Stux, climb Mt. duqu, and support B,D,S, with an IT twist..."
The good Doctor

Because... (4, Funny)

Max Threshold (540114) | about 8 months ago | (#46316401)

The US and Japan aren't still bombing each other. But Microsoft is still pulling the same stunts. In fact, they never stopped. They just kept doing it until it seemed normal and the government forgot why it was angry.

I think it's more than that (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316407)

Back in the '80s and early '90s, we had a healthy market for productivity software. Now we have a culture of "you better use Microsoft if you want other businesses to work with you".

I think a lot of people enjoy computers because they saw it as opening up new ways of working and thinking, and then find out many of the jobs involve shunning the outside world and sitting in a box while typing numbers into little boxes.

Missing the point (2)

dalias (1978986) | about 8 months ago | (#46316425)

Nailing MS for bundling IE was like nailing an organized crime lord for tax evasion. Nobody with a clue actually cared about the browser bundling. They cared that Microsoft had been engaging in behavior which essentially amounts to bullying and corruption for the entire time they've existed. The Microsoft that exists now is not reformed; it's just a lot less powerful. It's still part of a very backwards tradition of corporate behavior where you get ahead not by making the best product but by setting up obstacles and shutting down everybody else who's trying to make something better. (See also: entertainment industry, fossil fuels industry, car industry, ...) Corporations which behave that way should be treated like the dinosaurs they are, and shown the door to extinction.

Microsoft, Apple, Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316437)

All option-limiting, monopily-seeking, "evil" corporations. Microsoft started it but frankly Apple and Google are far worse in the present age and those are the companies we should focus on.

The struggle for freedom continues (1)

Squiggle (8721) | about 8 months ago | (#46316439)

It has become obvious over time which ecosystem is free, open, vibrant, and diverse and which puts corporate control, profits and lock-in first. Developers by in large want freedom to make what they want and proprietary software ecosystems have a feel of authoritarianism that is hated. Regardless if your Pappy was killed by Microsoft, or any oppressive regime, you fight for your own freedom, your children and the hope that no one will ever again be in a situation where their Pappy is killed (presumably because he was a threat to the regime). It is a complete rejection of an ideology that chooses control over liberty.

"The kids these days" that reject Microsoft and other proprietary regimes out of hand are an indication that the lessons from the sacrifices and hard fought non-violent struggle of the free software movement are starting to sink in. At some point we may be lucky enough to not have any of these authoritarian software companies around and instead enjoy a renaissance in software.

Are we pretending Windows 8 didn't happen? (5, Insightful)

Karmashock (2415832) | about 8 months ago | (#46316457)

Because it just happened... Like... just now.... so... What is this "they did something a long time ago" nonsense? They're still doing it.

Stop dicking with the core operating system, causing our programs to not run, and radically altering the GUI so its practically unrecognizable.

Offer us choices and try to empower users. Stop springing things on people that they might not want and taking away features we enjoyed.

That makes us feel powerLESS. You change things and we have no control over it. That doesn't make your users feel good or in control of their devices.

my two cents (1)

drolli (522659) | about 8 months ago | (#46316463)

>The U.S. and Japan managed to get over the whole World War II thing,

As somebody who lived in japan for four years: That is an illusion. Japan did not get over "the whole World War II thing", and neither did the US.

> so why can't people manage to get past the Microsoft antitrust thing, which was initiated in 1998 for actions in 1994?

Because the antitrust thing is just the legally visible top of the iceberg?

Honestly, Microsoft would very much like to be like Apple or Google. They just dont manage it. And at the points where they still have the monopoly, i dont see a company acting because they are deeply convinced of the need to change business practices but somebody who just changes them far enough to be able to keep management decisions on their side.

When Microsoft changes... (2)

QuietLagoon (813062) | about 8 months ago | (#46316469)

... when Microsoft changes its strategies and tactics, then the opinions of Microsoft will change as well.

.
As usual, a Microsoft manager is trying to blame its customers for the perception of Microsoft that Microsoft has earned and continues to earn.

Microsoft needs to look within to resolve its lack of public trust and amity.

Microsoft needs to learn how to compete on a level playing field without complaining that it is being wronged by what its customers think of Microsoft.

Microsoft needs to grow up.

Comparing microsoft to war (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316487)

Is he seriously suggesting that what japan did was similar to what Microsoft did?
The US nuked the shit out of a country they were at war with.
Almost everyone who remembers the war is dead.
Meanwhile Microsoft is up to the same shit they always have been.

Antitrust, are you kidding? (2)

EmperorOfCanada (1332175) | about 8 months ago | (#46316497)

I don't think that I know a single person who has mentioned the MS antitrust issue in maybe 5-10 years, except to mention that it might be happening to Google next. Tech people that I know generally hate MS for just abusing the crap out of their customers. Things like pushing out new operating systems to replace perfectly good operating systems. Things like rehashing Microsoft office over and over with their only "innovations" being things like the ribbon bar.

But if anything it would be the cost of licensing and the licenses themselves. I separate those two because just managing the licenses is a pain. The general consensus is that they make it a pain so that you get the all encompassing licenses that are "easier" so that now you just pay MS a tax on being in business.

Nearly 100% of the people that I know who are serious programmers have entirely moved their deployed products to OS solutions such as Linux and MariaDB and their development is generally done on an Apple or Linux PC as those most resemble the deployment platform.

I don't actually hate Microsoft and at one point was using Windows and Visual Studio to program .net desktop/web applications that used IIS and MSSQL. But then slowly but surely I migrated product by product to something Open Source until I realized that I was only using Windows XP because of inertia so I then dumped even that.

But for me the Open Source switch wasn't out of some religeous love of Open Source but that each one of the products was just way better than the MS equivalent for my use. Clients were perfectly happy to pay for any license issues so money wasn't even an issue, just a huge bonus. So it wasn't just that Open Source was better but that MS was actively becoming worse. Things like .net were bloating as they tried to tie every stupid MS product together in an attempt to trap me in their high priced eco system.

So I don't hate Microsoft (except for when they lie cheat and steal to prevent opensource from giving them the boot in large customers environment) I just don't have any interest in using any of their products. So even if all MS products were completely free and they stopped being bastards when places like Munich make the switch to OSS, I still wouldn't use them. In the same way that I wouldn't switch to a diet of low quality food even if it were free.

Never forget. (5, Insightful)

VortexCortex (1117377) | about 8 months ago | (#46316503)

To forgive is foolish. Always be mindful of past actions, as history has proven its tendency to repeat.

I have not forgotten how MS came by its MS DOS, and how it tried to ensure incompatibility with DR-DOS. I haven't forgotten the stagnation and needless standards adoption of IE6 which stalled us on HTML4.01 for half the age of the Internet. I haven't forgotten UEFI, while Coreboot or a simple ability to flash the firmware with an OS loader stub would have sufficed and not required implementation of their patent encumbered FAT systems.

Speaking of which, I haven't forgotten their suits over FAT against companies employing Linux (with and without GNU). I haven't forgotten their extortionist patent threatening and pressuring Android device makers to pay MS for contributing nothing at all but "protection" from the MS threat. I haven't forgotten MS's part in the SCO debacle. I haven't forgotten the terrible anti-progress internal politics of MS which prevented us from having ClearType due to infighting from the MS Office team who wanted to be credited with it themselves -- despite sub-pixel rendering not being a novel thing, and yet MS applying for patents on it.

I haven't forgotten the long look down their noses at us users from MS W8 User Interface designers. I haven't forgotten the MS W8 app store who takes a 30% cut of application maker profits that they never needed before when they were focusing on their core competencies -- A cost which developers like myself will pass onto the users instead of eating ourselves, thus allowing MS to double dipping from their install base.

I haven't forgotten the needless inability for XBox Live games (Like Halo2) to not play online anymore, even though both XBoxes know we have the game in our consoles -- I could see it on the friends list of my peer whom I'm chatting with -- all to force players to move onto newer products and much later repurchase the artful games if they want to keep playing. A doubly needless cost since Hamachi or a VPN allows "system link" across the web without XBL fees, proving the XBL fees and game repurchasing are pointless forced obsolescence. I haven't forgotten the advertizements that showed up in the online non-services and in the OS that users PAY Microsoft for.

I haven't forgotten the bug riddled APIs and the less than helpful MSKB archives wherein users document said bugs themselves in the comments. I haven't forgotten the single constant byte value in Windows that needlessly limits the number of concurrent TCP connections so that MS can sell a Windows Server version. I haven't forgotten MS screwing over device partners over Surface. I haven't forgotten my MSDN subscription becoming worthless as I would not get early access to their OS for testing my products before release to end users -- the better to ensure MS's own software and distribution strategies become further entrenched vs competition.

I won't forgive humans that are actually remorseful, and you think that I'd forgive generations of abuse or that new generations would become instantly ignorant of reality? Go fuck yourself Microsoft, you're just feeling the tip of our ice berg. Have a nice death in obsolescence. Much in the same way the Internet you actively worked against by pushing your own business network protocol instead of supporting sees censorship as damage and routes around it, the market too sees oppressive non-features as damage and routes around such vendors given enough time. Even the most powerful of tyrants die, and when they do we tell tales of their evils ever after as a warning to any upstart of what end awaits evil.

Some things just never change (2)

LoRdTAW (99712) | about 8 months ago | (#46316517)

Microsoft hasn't changed its standpoint on trying to take control of everyone's computing experience. I seen to recall the secure EFI mandate where only a signed OS could boot on a PC (e.g. Windows 8). There was plenty of Microsoft hate to go around as people thought that a Windows 8 PC/server could not boot an unsigned OS like Linux or BSD simply because it would be impractical for the open source communities to keep signing new kernels. And of course Windows 8 tried to force everyone to like MS tablets by making your desktop a clumsy tablet.

But here is my take. I have been using Windows since 3.1 on my 486DX 33MHz. Since Windows 2000 came out the stability has improved immensely and Windows 7 is probably the best yet. The bad windows days were the 95/98 and god help you if you had ..... ME. It does what it needs to do and most problems are bought about by bad hardware or bad drivers which, IMHO is the leading cause of Windows butt-hurt. Sure its a virus magnet because of security problems but I have never been infected simply because I know better than to open a random email attachment. Its the clueless folks who contribute to the bot nets. There is plenty of free and opensource software for windows, open office, gimp, Inkscape, kicad etc that enables most people to only have to pay for windows and use free software. If you need professional software then you pay for it. Simple. I mainly use windows for playing games though that is less and less of an issue as I don't play as many games. I also use it for a drafting CAD program, kicad and keeping track of my financials using open office. If I need to quickly work in Linux I can run my Linux VM using Virtual box (I never liked dual booting, last time I did it was in the 90's to play DOS games on 6.22 along side Windows 95).

Do I use operating systems besides Windows? You bet. I run Linux on almost every other system I own: media center PC, laptop, spare PC and development PC. My little home server runs FreeNAS, so that is FreeBSD and my router runs m0n0wall, also BSD based.

So Windows peacefully co-exists with opensource in my home.

Re:Some things just never change (1)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | about 8 months ago | (#46316627)

> Since Windows 2000 came out the stability has improved immensely

That's because much of that kernel was VMS, stolen from DEC. Thee's a readable description of the wholesale copying at http://windowsitpro.com/window... [windowsitpro.com] .

Well, why should we NOT hate Microsoft? (5, Interesting)

hey! (33014) | about 8 months ago | (#46316519)

People understand that corporations are amoral. The rational position towards a large, powerful corporation is distrust. That's the baseline from which a corporation has to work up from.

On top of that most people don't get a *choice* of Microsoft or something else; Microsoft is chosen *for them* by the corporate IT department or by the IT departments of people they have to work with. That's raises the bar for user experience, somethign MS is not particularly good at. It's like the food you get on a college meal plan. The fact you're forced to eat it means that if you're assigning it a letter grade you automatically deduct two letter grades: an A becomes a C and a B becomes a D.

Now consider Apple. There's a lot to dislike in their trying to position themselves as content gate keepers especially. But there are offsetting virtues: innovation, design, and build quality. On top of that most people who use Apple products choose to do so, which means they get a better evaluation.

Unfair? Maybe; but that's reality.

Now this is not to say that Microsoft has no virtues as a corporation, it's just that those virtues aren't experienced by *users*. Microsoft has consistently provided a mediocre user experience in its core products, and undermined the main value of their products to the user -- familiarity -- by pointless fiddling with user interfaces.

Microsoft's big sin was abusing its market position to achieve a monopoly with a mediocre product. To be forgiven of that sin, they've got to start producing products people love and look forward to, and don't feel let down by.

Circular Reasoning? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316527)

So because Microsoft got away with it it is okay that Apple and Google get away with it, which justifies Microsoft getting away with it? Sorry but it really isn't okay. It is not okay to force people to use Bing because they bought a Windows PC or Google because they bought an Android Phone, if you really need an up to date comparison. Abuse of monopoly position is abuse.

But the bit you are missing is that customers hate your product because it is awful and the people that are left supporting it hate you because Microsoft could do better.

North Korea (4, Interesting)

PPH (736903) | about 8 months ago | (#46316529)

Better analogy. We've got them pushed back behind a DMZ and there hasn't been any shooting for three years now. But with every change in illustrious leaders, we all wonder what sort of belligerent crap they'll pull next.

There is a lot of software talent and good ideas at Microsoft. And like North Korea, they can't get out and will probably starve to death inside.

Who killed who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316533)

Incoherent summary, or article with incoherent rambling? Was there a homicide involving Microsoft?

It's about Trust (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316543)

Well, lets see how Microsoft insists on treating me:

-You are a dirty pirate, let us ransack your system and install our rootkits, hope all your software is legal

-Want that update? Let us check if you are 'genuine'

-Not genuine? it's probably our mistake, but lets disable your system anyway.

-I trusted Microsoft in the DOS days, and my trust was not broken. My system did not tattle on me, me software could not be revoked at any time.

-I trusted Microsoft in the early Windows days. Most of my software did not tattle on me. I had to type in keys and stuff, it was a small inconvenience.

-Come Windows XP, my software tattled on me, Microsoft decided not to trust me, Microsoft thought it knew what was best. Microsoft wanted control of my machine, and wanted me to pay for it.

-Its getting worse, not better, so I upgraded to Linux.

Trust can not be bought, it is earned. Break that trust, and it is very hard to get it back again.

why-can't-we-get-along and let go? (5, Interesting)

dtjohnson (102237) | about 8 months ago | (#46316547)

Okay, I'll burn what's left of my karma and point out the reason why we can't get along...because Microsoft HAS NOT CHANGED. They are still the price-gouging, competition stifling, astro-turfing, anti open standards, monopolizing enterprise that they have always been. What HAS changed is the rise of Mac OS X, iPad, Google Chrome, etc. that have created some real alternatives to Microsoft.

"The whole WWII thing" (3)

Guppy06 (410832) | about 8 months ago | (#46316567)

The U.S. and Japan managed to get over the whole World War II thing

Try picking up a Texas or Japanese high school history textbook some time.

The greatest single disaster in computing history (3, Interesting)

gilgongo (57446) | about 8 months ago | (#46316571)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that comparisons to the Holocaust and world wars are in fact quite appropriate when discussing the magnitude of what Microsoft did to the history of computing, and by extension to human history overall.

The reason for this is simple. The effect of the Microsoft monopoly lasted so long and was so stultifying that it meant we will never know what a different word processor might be like. We will never know if spreadsheets or email might be more usable or efficient. We will never know (at least not in our lifetime) what an operating system or software might be like that doesn't use the conventions laid down by a company that had no incentive to make anything better, no need to design anything more than barely adequate, or to listen to its customers. Yet all these things are of fundamental importance to our lives - far, far too important to have suffered under a brutal, money-grubbing monopoly.

Despite (very) small innovations, Apple was not and is not a counter-balance because they were forced to ape the conventions that the Microsoft juggernaut had laid down with it's 95% market share. Jobs knew as well as anyone that it would be suicide to create anything that the market place was not already at least partially familiar with.

In the final analysis, the Microsoft era was a massive failure of free market capitalism that left us all driving Trabants while thinking they were the best that we could have. The blame lies of course with politicians and industry regulators who had no clue what an immense influence personal computing would have on society until it was too late. But it is too late. The die has been cast for personal computing for generations to come, and that is an utter and maddening tragedy for all of us.

The issue is of course far bigger than just one man, but holy mother of god do I hate what Bill Gates did to all of us.

Re:The greatest single disaster in computing histo (0, Offtopic)

0123456 (636235) | about 8 months ago | (#46316597)

In the final analysis, the Microsoft era was a massive failure of free market capitalism that left us all driving Trabants while thinking they were the best that we could have.

Ah, yes. The government grants copyright monopolies to software companies, and that's a 'failure of free market capitalism'.

That totally makes total sense.

Antitrust is irrelevant (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316579)

Hanselman presents a very poor strawman here. Nobody hates on Microsoft because of the IE antitrust suit. People hate on Microsoft because they continue to demonstrate the supercilious hubris that lead to their past blunders. The company hasn't changed. They have no self introspection and they don't listen to what their customers want. Hanselman in his posts unwittingly re-enforces this notion by showing that he is completely oblivious to the real reasons why people hate on Microsoft.

Still happening (5, Insightful)

CODiNE (27417) | about 8 months ago | (#46316581)

Let's not forget the ODF debacle where MS stacked committees around the world to pass their "standard".

Author is definitely diabetic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46316583)

We can tell because that "diabetic lemonade" he's trying to get us to drink has *too much* sugar in it. And it's clearly "diabetic lemonade" because we can still see Microsoft peeing in the mix, with OOXML, with hiring people away with USB sticks full of original source code written elsewhere, and with the abuse of the standards process every day over at the World Wide Web Consortium.

Plenty More Reasons To Hate (4, Interesting)

rubycodez (864176) | about 8 months ago | (#46316593)

Antitrust case not even on my list

1. artificial price tiers for various levels of crippling the code
2. bug ridden bloated code with poor source control
3. malware friendly due to constantly repeating the same basic amateur coding mistakes
4. malware and spyware friendly due to design to accommodate marketers rather than end users, the large corporations and marketers are considered the true customers
5. lack of basic functionality that other operating systems have built, money must be spent
6. ignoring user needs while flying off on weird tangents and working in vacuum to produe rubbish UI (e.g. ribbon, metro)
7. ignoring industry standard API, protocols and inventing inferior incompatible alternatives
8. monopolistic and lock-in practices continue in the present

Got over the WWII thing? Really? (2)

houghi (78078) | about 8 months ago | (#46316609)

The U.S. and Japan managed to get over the whole World War II thing,

Are they really over it? Japan never had an issue with it. Never botherd them what they did in e.g. China. And the Americans still go on how I should be thankfull, because otherwise I would be speaking German.
I do speak German (and several other languages) and the other alies don't bother me about that. (Thanks to ALL who helped, including later enemies.)

So I would say that was the worst example as people being 'over it'.

When Microshill stop lying. (1)

MouseTheLuckyDog (2752443) | about 8 months ago | (#46316615)

I'll reconsider my perspective on MS when Microshills stop lying about MS's behavior. Like saying things like MS did the illegal things that got it in trouble in 1994.
As a matter of fact, the first antritrust violation that Microsoft engaged in was with DOS2.0. Remember "DOS isn't done till Lotus won't run."?

Microsoft had created a twenty year+ history of flaunting the law and screwing over their partners not to mention their competitors. The people running the company then are the same people pulling the strings now. I will be willing to reexamine my lack of faith in MS when those people are completely gone, and the new people running MS have demonstrated that they are not interested in the tactics used by the old regime.

For now, though, MS has to act nicer. It's in no position to do otherwise.

Because they won (1, Informative)

rsilvergun (571051) | about 8 months ago | (#46316633)

hands down, they won. They got absolutely everything they wanted. There was absolutely no material action taken against them whatsoever. This is especially bad when there were so many smoking guns, like the old "It's not done until Lotus 123 won't run" emails or the stuff they did to Beos. It doesn't help that the "Punishment" for killing Sun Java was giving their software to schools, something they'd been trying to do for decades. What kind of company gets a cherished reward as punishment?

Plus If you're into computers then you're frustrated because Microsoft tech has always been just barely good enough. If you remember the early days stuff like Novel and Wordperfect, the aforementioned Beos and even some of the Win 3.1 competitors were far superior to Microsoft's offerings, but backdoor deals killed a lot of that tech. Their "good enough" approach has held back a lot of real enhancements to computing :(.

So yeah, there's a lot of ill will floating around...
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