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Thief Debuts To Mediocre Reviews

Soulskill posted about 6 months ago | from the sneaky-sneaky dept.

Games 110

The latest title in the stealth game series Thief launched in North America yesterday for the PS3, PS4, Xbox 360, Xbox One, and Windows. Reviews of the game are mixed. Rock, Paper, Shotgun's John Walker says that the story is poor, but "it matters very little, since it's only there as an excuse to link epic, intricate and hugely enjoyable levels together." He also laments the loss of a dedicated "Jump" button, noting that veterans of the series will miss it. "There are far too often obstacles that a toddler could easily scale, but Garrett won't even try, and his refusing to jump certain gaps in order to force a challenge is maddening." Polygon's review says navigating the game's open environments was fun, but "In the latter half of the game, when a glimpse of that openness was dangled in front of me once again, Thief snatched it away with murderous AI and controls that didn't feel up to the challenge." They add, "a new obsession with scripted story sequences and stealth action often leaves Thief feeling like the worst of both worlds." Giant Bomb's review is brutal, saying Thief is "a game that spends an inordinate amount of time making the player do uninteresting things while shoving the more fun stuff so far in the corner you'd be forgiven for missing most of it."

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Can't please anybody (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344171)

Hardcore fans of the originals don't like the game because there's not enough emphasis on stealth. Reviewers and the ADHD generation hate the game because the combat is poor and there's no "I win button". It's kinda ironic seeing the hardcore fans of the originals then praising those reviews for saying the new thief is bad.

Re:Can't please anybody (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344283)

^ AC snootiness overload!

Re:Can't please anybody (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46345659)

GP AC is right though. The original Thief focused heavily on stealth and had a tight storyline with well defined goals. You could step outside the story and explore the area (I used to do so for hours, especially in the underground cavern level), but there was a real chance you'd run into danger and not be able to fight your way out of it. Simply put, Garrett is a thief, not a warrior, and face to face combat was highly discouraged. The traditional FPS crowd booed that aspect because they just didn't understand it, and so Thief II had improved fighting abilities and sacrificed the story and stealth gameplay a bit. Overall it was just as fun (for me) as the original, but they really were different games.

I just couldn't get into Thief: Deadly Shadows though. It was dumbed down way too much, once again for the sake of the "headshot" crowd. I'm not sure if I even want to bother with the new one, despite being a diehard fan of the series itself.

kdz

Re:Can't please anybody (1)

fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) | about 6 months ago | (#46344413)

It's even worse than that:

Remember Dishonored? That not-exactly-unknown game involving a mix of stealth, exploration of a unique and vibrant gameworld, and occasionally just killing a dude up like a black-magic-powered ninja because you can?

Despite having their own supply of backstory, game world, characters, and so on, they managed to make the new Thief owe a creative debt that amounts to a second mortgage...

It's honestly a little baffling. Just smashing some updated art assets and an engine that isn't older than many of the players on Thief II would have at least left them with a game that doesn't come off as being charged $50 for somebody's nostalgia-driven total-conversion mod to Dishonored...

Let's Play (4, Insightful)

Kokuyo (549451) | about 6 months ago | (#46344245)

Thank god for Let's plays on Youtube. If I happen to find that the reviewers are right, I don't need to buy it and if I find that I disagree, I can order it after having watched a bit of gameplay. In that case, sure, I have to replay already viewed scenes, but it doesn't top the amount of frustration I get from having spent good money on yet another crappy game...

Re:Let's Play (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344635)

LPs are pretty much the only reason I buy games to be honest, or through friends playing games when I am with them.
I don't even care for reviewers these days, the entire reviewing industry has been ruined with corruption, goody-bag bribes and so on. I don't care enough to find good reviewers now, easy enough to find any random scrub online playing through it and go "hell, that looks great / AWFUL" and go from there.

Case in point, imagine if a reviewer of now were to review Dwarf Fortress. It'd score so low a blackhole would form. Yet the game is still better than a considerable number of games despite its shouldn't-even-be-open-to-public pre-pre-pre-alpha stages.
LPs are pretty much the only reason I played it, and random threads on 4chan /v/ back before the board died hard 2009 onwards, and Boatmurdered from SA.
Still an atrocious interface that Toady should focus on for an entire year. The menus are horribly inconsistent, selection systems too, dorf management is so obtuse, broken, and does not scale well at all. (a textual spreadsheet similar to Dwarf Therapist would be glorious!)

Even bad LPers are enough, I will watch it for the video and just mute them if they are loud and obnoxious, I won't care much for the audio since I know that it will at least be reasonable enough in almost all games, and if not, can easily be turned off anyway.

Re:Let's Play (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46357937)

There's absolutely no point fixing the interface yet; Toady is still adding content to the game with each major update, and fixing the interface now will just mean having to continually fix it after each major version change.

Leave it be, finish the game (Like that's going to happen, but regardless), then make it shiny.

Re:Let's Play (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 6 months ago | (#46344707)

I recently watched a relaxing Let's Play of Thief Gold [youtube.com] by a Finnish guy called Crowley9. So if someone wants to check out what the first game in the series looked like, there's my recommendation.

Re:Let's Play (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46351157)

The problem is that the way many fans played it was to hide in a dark corner for long periods of time scoping out things. That would make a horrible video to watch. Thief was essentially the anti-FPS game.

I preordered the last one, after spending hours on reviews and such (have not played yet). It was sort of an iffy choice, there was some controversy but the devs did seem like they were putting in a good faith effort to satisfy fans and maintain the bloodlines of the original. As in they allow turning off completely all the helper features, allowing a more hardcore mode of play, then giving a score at the end about how well you ghosted it, etc. So I'm sort of expecting something like Fallout 3; reincarnated franchise built by a different company. Some people will hate it, some will like it, some will like the newer game better than the older ones, others will forever be indignant about the result.

As for story line. Well, remember the story in Thief 1 wasn't so great either. The fun was being inside each mission, or little bits of lore along the way. But as a plot goes it was iffy.

Re:Let's Play (1)

RJFerret (1279530) | about 6 months ago | (#46345847)

Hear, hear, video is a slower way of getting info, but let's you see/feel for yourself. TheDarkMod videos [youtube.com] won't necessarily pop up searching for Thief, but I've been having a blast with it, a true remake of the original...and free!

Re:Let's Play (1)

Dunge (922521) | about 6 months ago | (#46348667)

I hate let's play guys, they are all hyperactive frustrated kids. I also hate spoilers so I don't want to see a game before playing it myself. Pirating is still a better options to see if the game is worth it.

Re:Let's Play (1)

thunderbird32 (1138071) | about 6 months ago | (#46360027)

I hate let's play guys, they are all hyperactive frustrated kids.

Certainly not all. I could give you a big list of them that aren't. Sure Pewdie and Toby are hyperactive (though they're both old enough to not be called kids), but there are many others that are not.

Re:Let's Play (1)

Destoo (530123) | about 6 months ago | (#46349075)

Game Distributors are starting to hit live game footage with DMCA. Especially when the video has been made with leaked or pre-release copies.

This won't last.

Re:Let's Play (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46350021)

I watched Giant Bomb's hour long first look at the game as well as FFSTV's let's play last night. The game looks terrible on consoles with horrible framerate drops and bad texture pop-in. There is very little engagement by the story or NPC's in the game and everything comes across as very heavily scripted with little in the way of freedom to do what you want. Looks like the kind of game to wait until it drops under $10 on Steam, but only if you really want to try the stealth mechanics.

Personally, the gameplay is so close to that of the AssCreed series that I have no interest in playing it at all. I hate dumbed down controls for console-kiddies.

Re:Let's Play (1)

Applekid (993327) | about 6 months ago | (#46361263)

Thank god for Let's plays on Youtube. If I happen to find that the reviewers are right, I don't need to buy it and if I find that I disagree, I can order it after having watched a bit of gameplay. In that case, sure, I have to replay already viewed scenes, but it doesn't top the amount of frustration I get from having spent good money on yet another crappy game...

No wonder game companies are trying to get let's play videos taken down with DMCA claims.

Mediocre reviews, but the game is fine if not good (1, Informative)

Mashiki (184564) | about 6 months ago | (#46344319)

Let me copy over most of my post(updated with more gameplay) from blues, and yeah if you don't know what bluesnews [bluesnews.com] is, it's one of the first gaming review sites that existed. And we do have a stick up our asses over the quality and content of games.

So yeah guys, my first 3hrs of gameplay? Enjoying it quite a bit. It's more or less true to the game, and there's no shortage of lewts to grab but some of it's tricky. Only playing it on medium atm, do a true playthrough when I'm done the first run. Turning off contextual "help" and prompts makes it more challenging as well. Gameplay is fine, you don't have to use the new focus system if you don't want to. You can make the game even more challenging if you want.

To anyone who doesn't like the game? That's okay, I'm enjoying it. I'll get my $34 out of it without a doubt.

Oh and if you're looking for a x/10 rating? 3hrs in, I'd give it a solid 7.8-8.3/10 give or take. I don't mind the voice acting at all, and find the interaction so far decent.

First major map, the one that people were posting images about earlier? Not really holding true. I've so far found 4 alternate paths compared to the one taken in the video.

Oh and "non-exclusive fullscreen" listed as "exclusive fullscreen" works beautifully in win8.1x64 for alt-tabbing with zero issues, lag, slowdown/crashes or other issues. I'd be interested to hear if the same holds true in win7.

And if anyone wants to see the main map area in chapter 1 here it is.
http://imgur.com/1oN7zx5 [imgur.com]

And from NKD

I've been playing it a bit tonight and your experience mirrors my own. I just don't see what all the bitching was about. I truly don't. These horrible glaring flaws people talked about in the reviews are orders of magnitude less dire than they led us to believe. They are barely worthy of mention. Maybe if I put more hours in I'll understand, but so far so good. It doesn't even really feel like a franchise reboot, IMHO. It's just another Thief game. You'd have to set it on easiest difficulty and run around being a psycho to not get the Thief experience, and that'd be your own fault.

Looking at some of the reviews again, I feel like most of the reviewers didn't understand the point of a Thief game and they were expecting something more flashy like a Deus Ex.

On the other end of the spectrum you have the die-hard Thief "fans" who have been swearing up and down that the game was going to suck for YEARS. These guys are so invested in their own opinion that they are psychologically incapable of enjoying the game.

If I put a few more hours into the game and everything goes to hell, I'll have to change my view on the game, but like I said, so far so good.

Re:Mediocre reviews, but the game is fine if not g (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344509)

Never heard of you. So I did a gs for "wiki bluesnews"

Number one. You don't have your own entry, so like, already you're not worth paying attention to.

Number two, the only hit on wikipedia I did get was
>A related stream of threads have decried the so-called "Ctrl-C-Ctrl-V" (copy and paste) journalism practiced by sites such as Blues News, Voodoo Extreme and Shacknews.

So you're a completely useless website too.

Re:Mediocre reviews, but the game is fine if not g (1)

GTRacer (234395) | about 6 months ago | (#46344783)

Firstly, I haven't played games on PC since ages ago, so I never used Blues for gaming info. I've been a console gamer since the beginning of home consoles and still play on console today.

That said, Blue's was big enough "back then" that in the early 2000's I knew who they were, what they did and of their reputation - good and bad. Blue's predates wiki-based gaming sites by maybe 15 years? Were wikis even a thing in 2000? PC gamers of old (like the ones who played the original Thief) know where to go to get their info.

Also, thank you for making me try your "wiki bluesnews" search - today I learned there's a Blue's Clues wiki ^^

Re:Mediocre reviews, but the game is fine if not g (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46346445)

Bluesnews is huge and has been around for a very long time, you ignorant little faggot.

Re:Mediocre reviews, but the game is fine if not g (1)

AdamHaun (43173) | about 6 months ago | (#46347715)

You have your credibility backwards. Blue's News predates Wikipedia by five years. It's not as big a deal as it used to be, but it's still a good news aggregator for video games. It's got useful information in a lightweight, text-focused design that doesn't arbitrarily change every 18 months.

Re:Mediocre reviews, but the game is fine if not g (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46351141)

So what? Buddha predates Wikipedia by 2500 years, and he still has got wiki page. bluesnews has its reputation for the reason.

Re:Mediocre reviews, but the game is fine if not g (1)

Mashiki (184564) | about 6 months ago | (#46352399)

bluesnews has its reputation for the reason.

You mean as a site where major game develops have and still do come by to post their opinions, comments, and ideas to the community? Where you can find people from every major game developer posting there? Or that we're some of the first folks to get a "heads up" on discounts from said developers because they value the discussions and talk there. We're good without a page for a reason, it keeps the trolls and anonymous cowards at bay.

Re:Mediocre reviews, but the game is fine if not g (1)

denmarkw00t (892627) | about 6 months ago | (#46357697)

no shortage of lewts to grab

"lewts?" Yes, that's some darn good gaming journalism there. Nothing like spelling a word incorrectly and adding Internet lols unnecessary plurals to really drive home the point. Sorry, "bluesnews," but that's an immediate turn off and I won't be visiting your site ever.

Re:Mediocre reviews, but the game is fine if not g (2)

X0563511 (793323) | about 6 months ago | (#46344815)

Yep.

Dove in on Master - and I'm actually going to start over on Custom and turn a bunch of extra hard-stuff on. Feeling right at home.

Some people don't like the slow pace (3, Informative)

sproketboy (608031) | about 6 months ago | (#46344335)

Some people (like toddler Alex Navarro) don't like the slow pace of these kinds of games. Web reviews are useless anyway. Youtube is a much better place to see if a game is good or not.

TotalBiscuit's review is worth watching if you want to decide for yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]

Re: Some people don't like the slow pace (1)

theweakend (2554288) | about 6 months ago | (#46344995)

Thanks for sharing. Based off reviews I wasn't going to bother with it but after watching that I want to get it. I am different case as I played thief the dark project and missed the "helpless" thief aspect. Removing the sword was a great move in my opinion and explaining that focus can be turned off was a key think for me.

Re:Some people don't like the slow pace (3, Informative)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 6 months ago | (#46345857)

It's also funny how TFS manages to portray the RPS review as negative when in fact it's lauding the game as being rather fun.

This really does feel as though the internet had already decided to hate the game before the game even came out.

Great link (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46347959)

Really helpful thank you! The game actually looks pretty much like I expected. Still hate the voice, but you can turn it off. The amount of options is staggering.

Re:Some people don't like the slow pace (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46349593)

TotalBiscuit's review is worth watching if you want to decide for yourself.

Opinion discarded. He's a whiny, man-baby, hypocritical shill.

A stealth alternative (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344399)

Re:A stealth alternative (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about 6 months ago | (#46344823)

Very fun, I'd grab this anyway - no need for it to be an alternative to anything.

ides of marching vandals stealing the handles (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344417)

appears all btc sites dealing in usd are going in the virtual toilette at this time?

Slashdot only allows anonymous users to post 1 times per day when it's you

coming back up now (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344483)

real time intervention in vandalism attacks how astute of the hobbyists?

Eidos Montreal (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 6 months ago | (#46344485)

I'm genuinely surprised by the lukewarm reception it's receiving, but moreso by the reports that it's rather linear and they've flubbed things like the background dialogue, given the developer. Eidos Montreal did the last Deus Ex game, and (farmed out bosses aside) it was genuinely excellent in exactly the sort of areas this game seems to have screwed up.

You just got low expectations (2)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | about 6 months ago | (#46344533)

There are people who liked Deus Ex: HR but those are exactly the kind of dumbed down console players that would have hated the original Thief and for that matter the original Deus Ex. It is the same people who think Bioshock is a worthy sequel to System Shock.

That doesn't mean the new games are bad, they are just the equivelant of the current Discovery Channel to the one from a decade ago. Dumbed down and simplistic.

You can see this reflected in the universal action key, because you know how hard it is to remember more then one key. Those who love this call it stream lined. I call it dumbed down.

Your choice what you think. But remember when you read reviews of these type of games that changed market, what games the reviewer likes. If you read a review by a scat lover about a turd, you best make sure you share his views before you bite down.

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 6 months ago | (#46344591)

PC Gamer are "dumbed down console players"? Really? And my point is that these outlets don't seem to think Thief and DXHR are very similar games at all; with that in mind your "they are console baby manz I am real manz" scenario doesn't make any sense..

Re:You just got low expectations (4, Insightful)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 6 months ago | (#46345313)

That is correct. Multiplatform games released for PC are often dumbed down because they are:
1. Not PC games - they are multiplatform releases
2. Expected to sell more on consoles than PCs - as a result main aspects of game design are focused on console crowd.
3. Both thief and DX:HR make very good example of this dumbing down. A lot of core mechanics of originals are simplified for reasons that they must run on a console and be aimed at console crowd. That means axing more complex features in favor of fast QTEs, simpler controls, linear or simplified tactical approach and so on.
All of these are present in thief. All of these were present in DX:HR. Both are still fun games in their own right, in part because originals were so good that even stripping them down still leaves a very good game.

Re:You just got low expectations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46350475)

Bullshit. All games are dumbed down, it's a sign of a new (dumber?) generation, it has nothing to do with consoles. Case in point, almost all console series that I used to enjoy, have had their more recent entries dumbed down from what they were years ago, just like your precious PC games.

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 6 months ago | (#46354343)

Really?

Try banished, the recently released one man job of a game. Good luck arguing it was "dumbed down".

Or try Starcraft 2.
Or LoL/DOTA2.
Or Path of Exile.
Or many of countless others.

PC gaming is alive and well because current generation of PC games (not multiplatform, but actual PC games) are heavily pushing in their own niches. By extension, that's also why they sell less - they focus on their own audience and keep the experience fairly hardcore instead of watering it down to ensure the wider appeal. Stacraft 2 makes for a great example here, very little wide appeal but for the hardcore fast paced RTS fans it's a godly game. Even in shooters, PC shooters are pretty much niche, but very good at what they do. From Tribes Ascend to TF2 to various CS implementations, you can pick your poison.

And for console crowd, there will always be the one massive seller that is call of duty.

Re:You just got low expectations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46355993)

You missed the point. I'm talking about those multiplatform releases you mentioned. Just an example off the top of my head: Mass Effect started to lose much of its complexity and RPG elements with the later games. That started to happen -after- the original (which started as an Xbox 360 exclusive) was ported to the PC, ironically.

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 6 months ago | (#46360707)

So consolitis got more severe as the game got more sequels. This is not unusual.

Again, I'm talking about PC games. Not multiplatforms. You appear to have grabbed to "PC games" title and then assumed it means "multiplatform games also released on PC but designed for consoles". Which is strange, because I specifically draw the line in my initial post.

Re:You just got low expectations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46356231)

[posted this in the wrong place before]

Also ironically enough, some games that have remained single-console exclusive have remained the "purest" relatively, such as many of Nintendo's franchises.

Might I remind you that the current deluge of F2P microtransaction stupidity that has infected many multiplatform games on consoles, found its origin on the PC in the form of Farmville and its ilk? The PC has pretty much the largest audience for that kind of thing, next to mobile phone games. And now it's coming to the Playstation. Thanks a lot.

Of course I could say all this is the fault of the PC platform, for that but unlike some people I don't like to put easy blame on a scapegoat like that to make myself feel superior. It's not any single place you can point to, it's just people in general who are becoming less patient, the business in general is changing, and/or perhaps a larger portion of the populace is starting to get into these video games that don't have experience with them like we do.

Well... except the phone game market. Fuck -that- shit. ;)

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 6 months ago | (#46360785)

You're confusing PC games with casual web/facebook games. Casual web/facebook games are the same category as phone games and designed for the same crowd and as a result typically share all the same problems, such as P2W stupidity.

In fact, as of typing this, PC market has been the most resistant one to pure P2W aspects of F2P market outside Far East. You have to have a fair F2P model if you want to go F2P on PC in the West - or you will fail hard.

Consider that several games on my list are in fact F2P. But they are PC F2P. Games like LoL, DOTA2, TF2 and path of exile make for great example of PC games that are F2P. Hell, even SC2 is now partially F2P, offering a very solid multiplayer game completely free of charge. And if you want the rest, you just pay for the box and you're golden.

Re:You just got low expectations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46356081)

Also ironically enough, some games that have remained single-console exclusive have remained the "purest" relatively, such as many of Nintendo's franchises.

Might I remind you that the current deluge of F2P microtransaction stupidity that has infected many multiplatform games on consoles, found its origin on the PC in the form of Farmville and its ilk? The PC has pretty much the largest audience for that kind of thing, next to mobile phone games. And now it's coming to the Playstation. Thanks a lot.

Of course I could say all this is the fault of the PC platform, for that but unlike some people I don't like to put easy blame on a scapegoat like that to make myself feel superior. It's not any single place you can point to, it's just people in general who are becoming less patient, the business in general is changing, and/or perhaps a larger portion of the populace is starting to get into these video games that don't have experience with them like we do.

Well... except the phone game market. Fuck -that- shit. ;)

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46354165)

Sometimes it is hard to tell if something is "dumbed down" or if there was a legitimate reason for the decisions. Ie, Thief 1 had a very minimal look to it; not much UI except for the visibility gem but it wasn't dumbed down, it purposely wanted the minimal UI. Then there was Thief 3, not really a dumb game but every single mission was split into two parts, such as the front half of the house level plus a back half of the house level, with the loading time if you go back and forth. That was done because it needed to run on smaller systems without enough memory to contain a full level. Not really dumbed down for kids but because of technical limits, with the result of having a jarring experience playing it.

Look at Gothic 1 as another example. A with a very odd sort of control scheme with "combo" moves and minimal number of keys and controls. It felt like it might be a console game, except that it was only available on the PC.

Overall designing for a console means that you can't assume a mouse, as many will want to play sitting on the couch, so no fine grained control of a cursor will show up. Modern consoles don't have the limitations on memory so much and they seem to all have storage, so no more limitations on when to save games. There isn't as much restriction on modding, except that on consoles this seems to be exclusively a paid download from a subscription service or official patches.

I do not think that linear game play is because of consoles, because there have always been some linear games on PCs which has increased over time. I think the cause here is in the game makers wanting to tell a story and keep it under their control, they approach making a game in the same way that a studio makes a movie. Plus the market demand for better and better graphics and full voice dialogue everywhere means that the are forced to make the game smaller, if they let players go off the rails then it gets very expensive to have to flesh out all those regions off of the main path.

Oh, and they got rid of the QTEs in Thief due to angry feedback (I had to look up what that meant a few days back, since I hadn't seen it before).

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 6 months ago | (#46354295)

You're talking hypotheticals on most of your point. I'm talking about specific game (Thief) that has all the problems I listed.

It could be because it is designed for previous gen and not next gen of consoles. It's still tiny in terms of world size, trying to hide the loading screens in the "spam E to pull up the window while we load that next level" (still doesn't work properly on PCs due to a shitty port quality, people are reporting to get loading screens in the "middle of level" all the time).

Re:You just got low expectations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46355611)

Then there was Thief 3, not really a dumb game but every single mission was split into two parts, such as the front half of the house level plus a back half of the house level, with the loading time if you go back and forth. That was done because it needed to run on smaller systems without enough memory to contain a full level. Not really dumbed down for kids but because of technical limits, with the result of having a jarring experience playing it.

It was dumbed down for compatibility with the original XBox, which had limited amount of memory compared to PCs of the same time. That is why TDS only uses a small amount of memory (100 MB), but has otherwise rather high system requirements for the time it was released at; I guess the PC port was not very well optimized either. So, it is indeed an example of "consolization", because the level design had to be compromised for console compatibility.

Re:You just got low expectations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46355617)

Edit: I meant less than 100 MB, but Slashdot removed the "less than" character.

Re:You just got low expectations (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344625)

Damn straight. DX:HR was tolerable (and mostly due to the fanservice - the nods back to the original games) but although I quite enjoyed playing it, it wasn't a patch on the original.

As for Bioshock, I bought it off the back of the "spiritual successor to System Shock" rubbish and found it pretty, but an utterly unfulfilling shooter. Was not impressed at that at all.

As for Thief, I really didn't have any hopes for it. My take was that Eidos had their chance with Deadly Shadows and massively fucked that up, so I wasn't going to get my hopes up.

Re:You just got low expectations (2)

gweihir (88907) | about 6 months ago | (#46344901)

I disagree. I like Human Revolution very much and I liked Deus Ex 1 very much, as well as Thief 1 and 2. Human Revolution is only simplistic if you play it as a shooter. If you play it as a sneaker, it is great and does capture the spirit of the original exceedingly well.

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46354175)

Hmm, in DX1 I hated the sneaking. It just didn't work very well. As soon as one enemy saw you, then every enemy on the map saw you as well, it was very disconcerting having played Thief 1 first. You could partially sneak, but there were no mechanics about being in dark versus light, it meant basically to stay behind objects.

Re:You just got low expectations (3, Funny)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 6 months ago | (#46345891)

Oh my goodness, an honest to god PC Master Race person. How does it feel?

and... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46354899)

thing is, you know he's right too.

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

fsck-beta (3539217) | about 6 months ago | (#46346815)

Did you take a wrong turn at Reddit?

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

XxtraLarGe (551297) | about 6 months ago | (#46347065)

There are people who liked Deus Ex: HR but those are exactly the kind of dumbed down console players that would have hated the original Thief and for that matter the original Deus Ex. It is the same people who think Bioshock is a worthy sequel to System Shock.

Stop generalizing. As a long-time "PC" gamer (I own a Mac), I've played a ton of FPS games dating all the way back to Wolfenstein 3D & Marathon. I loved the original DX, and enjoyed DX: HR quite a bit, though parts of it were disappointing. DX had a lot of replay value that HR didn't, and I hated the fact that you needed to use energy to use your melee attacks.

I never played System Shock, so I can't say if BioShock series was a worthy sequel, but I thought those were great too. They offered a lot of RPG elements both with the crafting system and the plasmid/vigor upgrades. I BS & DX:HR on the PS3 because they weren't available at launch on the Mac, though I really prefer to play FPS's with keyboard & mouse on the computer.

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46351257)

System Shock and BioShock are so utterly different in every possible way, that I was surprised when I first heard people calling BioShock a spiritual successor. Maybe a few of the same devs but that's not a spiritual successor. BioShock is a good game on its own, but it would be awful if treated as System Shock 3.

Re:You just got low expectations (1)

grub (11606) | about 6 months ago | (#46356465)


System Shock 2 is available on GOG.com [gog.com] for both PC and Mac. It is one of the finest FPS/sneak/RP games you will ever play. It is still is my #1 spot.

Because I am such a wonderful person, email me (address is visible above) with a random bunch of junk text then reply to this post with the same junk and I'll gift you the game. You can be playing it in an hour...

Re:Eidos Montreal (1)

gweihir (88907) | about 6 months ago | (#46344595)

I agree. Maybe the best people there did Deus Ex (the bosses are fixed in the director's cut BTW and fixed well) and whoever was left got to work on Thief? From the reviews, I will rather play the original s again, then this half-backed thing.

Re:Eidos Montreal (1)

Sockatume (732728) | about 6 months ago | (#46344611)

That certainly does seem to be the case. I assumed they would've moved the DX team over to Thief after their work was finished, but apparently not.

Re:Eidos Montreal (1)

Nemyst (1383049) | about 6 months ago | (#46345877)

From what I've read Thief was developed in parallel by a different team (and also entered development hell with numerous rewrites and changes). I think this has definitely impacted the quality of the final product, but the marketing for the game was also absurdly bad. People had already the opinion that the game sucked before they played it.

Re:Eidos Montreal (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46354191)

I think they spent many months anxiously worried about being laid off at any moment by the mother ship.

Just another dumbed down console game (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344535)

No jumping? Shooting rope arrows in only approved places? Pure stupidity.

Debut (1)

Dunbal (464142) | about 6 months ago | (#46344561)

Should review the meaning of the word. A re-release is hardly a "debut".

The Dark Mod (3, Interesting)

Thanosius (3519547) | about 6 months ago | (#46344567)

Go play The Dark Mod instead: http://www.thedarkmod.com/main... [thedarkmod.com]

Free, now standalone so despite the name you don't need Doom 3 to play it, plus it's cross-platform. You basically download missions through the in-game downloader, most of them really, really good, and get your proper Thief experience instead of the watered-down bullshit that this new Thief game provides.

Re:The Dark Mod (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about 6 months ago | (#46344847)

We can't do both? This is still fun, though it may not be what your nostalgia demands.

Re:The Dark Mod (1)

Thanosius (3519547) | about 6 months ago | (#46351967)

I have no nostalgia. The most I ever played of the actual Thief games was a demo of Thief 2 back in the day and a little bit of Thief 3. But I've been playing The Dark Mod to death because of the incredible detail and the fan missions made by people who clearly love the old-school style of the games. New games are more obsessed with catering to all audiences, which makes them dilute the more interesting aspects of suck genres.

From most accounts (reviewers as well as users) this new Thief game is incompetent. Heck, one guy even made the observation that at no point does Garrett sneak into a building, steal an object, and then leave the way he same, since the game forces a linear path through an environment to be suddenly spat out at the other end. One of the great things about the Dark Mod is that once you've achieved your objectives, most missions will make you return to where you started to complete the mission. Hence you'll to deal with the remaining guards, environment, and potentially consequences for whatever actions you took during the mission.

But go ahead and assume I'm just hating because of "nostalgia". I'm not going to pay money to be disappointed in Thief when there's enough evidence that this will happen.

Re:The Dark Mod (1)

X0563511 (793323) | about 6 months ago | (#46356083)

Whatever you say. I played the hell out of (and mapped for) Thief 1 and 2, T2X, Thief 3, and the Dark Mod... and I'm enjoying this latest game just fine.

Re:The Dark Mod (1)

Thanosius (3519547) | about 6 months ago | (#46363439)

And that's great! I'm not a hater or want to prevent people have fun just because I'm not a fan of something.

Re:The Dark Mod (1)

east coast (590680) | about 6 months ago | (#46345177)

I use to play the Dark Mods back around the time Thief 2 was out. I'll have to give it a go again. Do you have to jump through a bunch of hoops with limited options like you have to do with Thief 1 on WinXP/Win7? That's what kills going back to most of the 90s games for me.

Dark Mod (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46348725)

It's Standalone now and magnificent, downloadable maps form inside the game, and lots of content.

Needs a Patch (1)

The MAZZTer (911996) | about 6 months ago | (#46344587)

Right now I'm finding it unplayable, it needs a patch.

  • Game crashed to desktop within five minutes of its first launch, while trying to sign on to their online thing.
  • The online sign in system just doesn't work. If you go to their website it works just fine, but the game client can't log in. No error message or anything, it just sits there.

  • No way to redeem the Steam keys I got, eg the soundtrack and comic book. Probably part of the online system.
  • Voices do not play or play low enough that I can't hear them. This pretty much means I got lost in the first few minutes of gameplay and this was what motivated me to quit and try again later.
  • Some settings don't seem to be properly persisted between sessions, like invert mouse y and subtitles.

  • Performance seems extremely poor. I have a Radeon HF 58xx card and a quad-core 2.67ghz i5. According to the game page I meet the minimum requirements and then some, so I was surprised when, on normal graphics settings (which were recommended to me) the game performed poorly with wild fluctuations in FPS. Most of the time it would be a steady (if ugly) ~40, but then it would drop to 1FPS for a few seconds for no perceivable reason at all.

I am going to have to wait for a patch I guess and hope it fixes most of these issues.

Re:Needs a Patch (1)

jones_supa (887896) | about 6 months ago | (#46344727)

Apparently they did not do enough quality assurance.

Re:Needs a Patch (2)

X0563511 (793323) | about 6 months ago | (#46344865)

Quad 2.6ghz Phenom II with an nvidia 460gtx, and I get 30-40fps consistently on High settings (though with SSA off, which was eating FPS like candy and providing little discernible difference in quality when FXAA was also on).

I've no idea where your Radeon stands compared to my nvidia, but I do know mine isn't new, it's been around for a while now. Same story with my CPU.

Re:Needs a Patch (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344949)

turn off your bitcoin mining and everything else and it might work

Re:Needs a Patch (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 6 months ago | (#46345345)

I have the same problem on nvidia rig with 560Ti, 4 gigs of RAM and 4.2 GHz i5. Performs fine even on high settings as long as I turn SSAA off, but then it hits the HDD hard and FPS collapses. Same problem on medium. Haven't tried on low yet, but I suspect it will be the same problem again.

I suspect it's either shitty optimization or the game actually does need more than 4GB of RAM and I should just upgrade the machine.

Honest 1 liner review (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46344871)

Candy coated single flavor piece of shit game for mouth breathers.

My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (4, Informative)

grub (11606) | about 6 months ago | (#46345219)


I love all things Thief and have since the first release of Thief: The Dark Project.

What the new Thief gets right:
- Stealth. Just as good as previous iterations.
- Lock picking. Similar to what we had with Thief: Deadly Shadows.
- Rope Arrows. Only because they are back after disappearing in Deadly Shadows- Lighting & atmosphere. I think they nailed it.
- Difficulty: Oh yes... they nailed this. The Iron Man setting looks great (you die, game over. You have to restart from scratch) as well as may other great tweaks. Like turning off that stupid Focus (see below)

What the new Thief gets wrong:
- Rope Arrows. Yay, they are back, but they can only be shot into special wood beams with rope wrapped around them. The original rope arrows could be shot into almost any type of wood, even walls and many trees, allowing for great exploration.
- Focus. This is Thief, not Dishonored. Fuck off, Focus.
- Swearing and sex. I'm not a prude, but I would have liked hearing more "Taffer" and "Benny's drunk"-type talk over "fuck fuck fuck fuck" and the hot sexness in the brothel. Some of us play these games with our kids.
- Scripted actions. Escape-type scenes. Very new Tomb Raider. Maybe it's part of 'reimagining' games that these scenes seem necessary.
I'm in to the third part of the story (the brothel) and while I am loving the new Thief as a die-hard fan, there are some serious shortcomings.

Re:My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (1)

grub (11606) | about 6 months ago | (#46345299)

Oh yes, another failure is the lack of a jump button. What?! It has been replaced by a contextual 'action' button.

Re:My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (1)

Luckyo (1726890) | about 6 months ago | (#46345387)

You play thief games with kids? What the f...?

Thief has always been about dark, decrepit, effectively collapsing society and attempts of higher strata of society to improve it that go very very badly wrong and you as the thief basically observing the results from level of average person, whom you rob. It's been that way in thief, in metal age and in deadly shadows. You do not play games like these with kids - these themes are exceptionally dark, adult and have a negative hit on young child's psyche.

That said if you think that this is okay for kids but the sexual perversion stuff isn't, I suspect that playing video games with kids is not the main problem you have...

Re:My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (1)

quietwalker (969769) | about 6 months ago | (#46346757)

Were you talking about the daily news and world events? The political history of most existent countries and almost assuredly the history of those that no longer exist?

Sure, there's less metal golems and tricksie lords, but what you're describing is how the world actually seems to work. You can't shelter kids from that, and if you do, the result will be an individual incapable of dealing with reality. It'd be like living on the "Small World" ride until the age of 12 and only then being released into the world. That's a hit to a psyche.

Re:My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (1)

grub (11606) | about 6 months ago | (#46346987)


Save your preaching, they are only games.

We play the Thief series as pure stealth games, we don't kill (except perhaps monsters). It's like grown up Hide & Seek.

The stuff in the new Thief you see in the brothel is pretty nice (for a grownup :)) but I don't want my almost-8 year old seeing S&M or some whore riding a guy. Maybe you do, but I'd rather not.

Tell me, Freud, what is my main problem?

Re:My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46353999)

There's a segment of developers, movie makers, authors, and whatnot, who feel that if they don't have some sort of "adult" content in the games (swearing, nudity, etc) then they aren't being real and authentic or something. Maybe they think it takes them out of the realm of wannabes and into the serious artist sphere?

Re:My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (1)

Nethemas the Great (909900) | about 6 months ago | (#46348357)

Objective analysis of the world around them is very much an appropriate thing to teach your children. Not everything is pink ponies and Power Rangers. People with power and authority need to be viewed critically not abjectly. Neither does everyone live their lives with the values you hold. That said, the depth into which your children are introduced should be proportionate to their maturity. Dark may not be so bad, but deep depravity not so appropriate.

Re:My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46351381)

The originals had a distinct world. Even with dark, unsavory themes (assassination, theft, body harvesting / enslavement), it presented it in a classy way. Hearing shit and fuck just seems odd. The extended dialogue on cockrings was... I don't even know where to begin on that. Between moments of sneaking &thieving it feels like a South Park episode that's making fun of action movies clichés.

Re:My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (2)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46354077)

That's too bad. I suspect there are people out there laughing and thinking that if adults don't want that stuff in games then we must all be prudes. This sounds gratuitous; with one definition of that word being "being without apparent reason, cause, or justification". It doesn't help the story, add to characterization, flesh out the setting, etc, it's just there because someone wanted to get away with it and be edgy. Except that too much of it and it just becomes stupid and puerile, actively hurting the final product.

Re:My thoughts as a die-hard Thief fan. (1)

grub (11606) | about 6 months ago | (#46356189)


It doesn't help the story, add to characterization, flesh out the setting, etc, it's just there because someone wanted to get away with it and be edgy. Except that too much of it and it just becomes stupid and puerile, actively hurting the final product

Thank you! You explained my overall dissatisfaction with it far better than I did. It didn't help or improve Thief in any way whatsoever.

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Watching my son play it on PS4, I like it. (1)

VIPERsssss (907375) | about 6 months ago | (#46346043)

It's like a cross between Dishonored and Bioshock Infinite. It does have some scripted sequences that remind me of Call of Duty 2, but you're not completely locked in. It's still mostly free roam.

Watch Dogs better be good (1)

Joe_Dragon (2206452) | about 6 months ago | (#46346079)

and I hope they can at least get some of roads rights at least they seemed (at least in the prom videos) have a the weather channels local on the 8's looking like it's in the right area.

Game is okay (1)

Dunge (922521) | about 6 months ago | (#46346401)

It's another one new high-tech game with amazing graphics (especially lighting effects) that require an high-end machine to play, with nice animations and level geometry details. Unfortunately, it bring nothing new worth mentioning that is surprising to see. The gameplay play just like Dishonored and DeusEx (nothing wrong with it). Most reviewers are just stupid though and it's "in" to bash new games for no reason these days saying that their nostalgic titles were better, when it's clearly not the case.

Re:Game is okay (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46353971)

I never tried Dishonored. I just don't want to play a bad guy, or a guy out for revenge, or whatnot. It seemed like it wanted to be too much like Thief, except with killing and more magic.

Re:Game is okay (1)

grub (11606) | about 6 months ago | (#46356573)


I played through Dishonored several times because I was needing a stealth fix. The method of gameplay does affect the outcome but the number of those outcomes isn't huge (think Mass Effect 3's Pick-A-Colour ending). Dishonored was far too easy, I play on the hardest difficulty and ghosted it ending with a happy cutscene ending, hardest and killed everyone where plague rats ran amok and the end cutscene was rather grim and everything in between.

The Blink spell and Dark Vision spells made the game a walk in the park.

It's a very good game and does pay homage to the Thief series in a few parts. If you see it on sale, it's worth a buy if only for another type of stealthy-type game.

Thief's 1/2 Magic Ingredients were.... (3, Insightful)

BrendaEM (871664) | about 6 months ago | (#46346657)

I have played Thief 1/2/3 and over a hundred Thief 1/2 add on missions. Thief's 1/2 Magic Ingredients were....

There was sophisticated programing for Thief 1/2. Light and sound mattered to the AI. There were locks, puzzles, contraptions, levers. Garret could use the rope arrow on any wood. Garrett could swim.

Thief 1/2 were made in New England, where Thief 1/2 was made, has a marked Autumn season. Notice how many leaves are strewn about in Thief 1. As someone from New England who now lives in Northern California, I will state that it's hard to imagine how creepy it is to be in a graveyard at night around Halloween, when you are a child. In Thief 1, that graveyard, is in the middle of a haunted town that you will have to make it back through, and yes, but you still have to go under it.

There were quite a few women working at Looking Glass Studio on Thief 1/2. It wasn't made in an all-male cloistered monoculture. Women make add-on missions. Women even cos-play Garret. If you want women to buy video games, hire women.

The biggest problem with the Thief reboot is the console game culture, where games cannot require skill to play. Ref: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v... [youtube.com] You cannot move like a "Master Thief" unless you can control a character.

Sadly, Looking Glass Studio failed. Thief 1/2's (as well as SS2) biggest problem was it's graphics were very polygonal even for their time. Thief was never a breathtaking game visually, but once you got over that it didn't need to be, and that is why there will be many more missions for Thief than there will be for most newer games.

I might check out the new Thief, but for missions, I'm not expecting a mission as excellent as Ominous Bequest, or The Seven Sisters, or a story as good as Saturio Returns Home or The Bathory Campaign. I'm not expecting the care and devotion shown in Thief 2x or The Dark Mod.

Still, I hope there is enough in the reboot Thief, to go admit their faults and go on to get everything right.

Re:Thief's 1/2 Magic Ingredients were.... (1)

TechNeilogy (2948399) | about 6 months ago | (#46348241)

Thief 1/2 had a tongue-in-cheek campiness about them that made them fun to play in spite of the technical limitations. It was like being a kid again and being able to suspend disbelief. Looking down from the heights into the crudely polygonal catacombs was actually scary. Turning around to find a medium-res monster coming at you really made you jump. The same dumb guard saying for the fiftieth time: "Nobody shows me my own sword and yells run," still made you smile. You watched for situations in which to use the word "taffer" in real life. Ironically, the more realistic later versions actually interfered with this by being too realistic and yet failing to engage your imagination.

Shalebridge (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46348871)

I know Thief:DS isn't the greatest of the series, but I can say that the Shalebridge Cradle will forever be burned into my mind. Having to sneak through that terrifying place was absolutely unnerving. One of the creepiest levels in any game I've ever played.

Re:Shalebridge (1)

grub (11606) | about 6 months ago | (#46356639)


The new Thief has a similar level: a haunted asylum. It has a shock scare early on (you will predict it, too obvious) and a few chills within but isn't nearly as scary as Shalebridge, not by a longshot.

Shalebridge still freaks me out.

Re:Thief's 1/2 Magic Ingredients were.... (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46353877)

Yea, the arrow on any piece of wood was key in a lot of places. That meant you could use the rope arrow to get to completely pointless locations, or even just go up to the ceiling with nothing to do but go back down. Sometimes this was a good hiding place to just wait. The wood was a natural part of the locale. So if you looked around you saw lots of wood, most of it pointless. But in the new game I hear that if you look around and see some wood sticking out the side of a building, then that's a bug hint that this is a path you may want to take.

This was definitely true in Thief 3 where you did not have rope arrows for technical reasons (ie, they couldn't get it to work right), but they had climbing gloves that worked on some surfaces. So if you saw a surface that was climbable then it was a very big hint to try it out.

Re:Thief's 1/2 Magic Ingredients were.... (1)

Darinbob (1142669) | about 6 months ago | (#46353947)

Oh ya, the other things I thought was GREAT in Thief were the maps. No auto-map of the locations you've been that eventually turns into a relatively detailed map of the locale as if you had a blueprint. Instead you get some scribbles on a piece of paper. Exactly what you expect to get if a fence hands you a tip. You couldn't just look at the automap to see what you haven't explored yet or the corridor you overlooked.

Ie, http://thief.wikia.com/wiki/Fi... [wikia.com]

I find it funny and a bit sad when other players complained bitterly that the maps were useless (they really weren't). Sometimes getting lost was part of the fun.

As a Thief latecomer (1)

camazotz (1242344) | about 6 months ago | (#46348131)

This is a pretty fun game, actually, but it does have a scripted element that can be jarring when it draws so many comparisons to Assassin's Creed and Dishonored. I've never been one for the older Thief games (found out about them too late to care) so I can see how this edition might irritate those who have played what came before, but the game's not half as bad as I expected from the internet fervor.

Curse of the FPS (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 6 months ago | (#46349195)

What happens when you make a FPS, but you remove all the 'S' (shooting). Stealth games have a real problem.

Mirror's Edge
Hitman
Thief

Games that APPEAR to have the same aesthetic as first-person (or third person) shooters, but do NOT want the player relying on gunplay, or even significant melee activity. The truth is that most reviewers are frustrated by a game that 'looks' like a shooter, but punishes the player with providing no gameplay satisfaction if the (intentionally) poorly implemented systems of overt violence are relied on to progress the game's aims.

It is notable that the positive reviews of 'Thief 2014' come from reviewers who firstly use the extensive options to switch off the dumbed down game assists (like FOCUS and WAYPOINTS), and activate the "killing = fail" mode.

The very fact that games run on computers means that games can have near infinite options to alter gameplay experience based on the needs of the player. How is such a game to be reviewed, when (laughably named) 'professional' reviewers don't play for fun, but simply to get through the game. What reviewer isn't going to select the very worst options that allow the game to be completed as quickly as possible, so they do as little work as possible for their pay?

BUT, if 'Thief 2014' had totally excluded killing and game simplifying mechanisms, the publishers feared the game itself would have become too 'niche'. Running around shooting everyone in Hitman, for instance, completes the level, ruins the whole point of the game, but allows the cretins who can only play games this way to feel happy.

On the other hand, 'Dishonored', the game Thief 2014 badly rips off (yes, the original Thief came first, BUT the new Thief is far closer to Dishonored), managed to 'square the circle', and include some satisfying combat amongst the stealth. Indeed, popular films that have a 'stealth' character as hero (Bond, Mission Impossible etc), also allow the hero to have frequent meaty action sequences with high violence content.

Anyway, the biggest sin of Thief 2014 seems to be the god-awful plot/story, created by the very untalented daughter of Terry Pratchett. Reviewers can forgive a lot in a game if they are enjoying the story, and modern AAA games dedicate gigs of storage to cut-scenes. Eidos/Square-Enix would be better off employing talented writers, NOT trendy/politically correct ones whose family just happens to have the right kinds of social connections in London.

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  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>