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Ask Slashdot: Do You Still Trust Bitcoin?

samzenpus posted about 8 months ago | from the who-can-you-trust? dept.

Bitcoin 631

Nerval's Lobster writes "It hasn't been a great week for Bitcoin. Cruise the Web, and you'll find stories from people who lost thousands (even millions, in some cases) of paper value when the Mt.Gox exchange went offline for still-mysterious reasons. (Rumors have circulated for days about the shutdown, ranging from an epic heist of the Bitcoins under its stewardship, to financial improprieties leading the exchange to the edge of bankruptcy.) But as one Slashdotter pointed out in a previous posting, Mt.Gox isn't Bitcoin (and vice versa), and it's likely that other exchanges will take up the burden of helping manage the currency. Even so, all currencies depend on a certain amount of stability and trust in order to survive, and Bitcoin faces something of a confidence crisis in the wake of this event. So here's the question: do you still trust Bitcoin?"

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As Frontalot says (5, Insightful)

geekoid (135745) | about 8 months ago | (#46352513)

"You can't hide secrets from the future with math."

Kinda implies (5, Insightful)

Enry (630) | about 8 months ago | (#46352531)

that I ever trusted Bitcoin in the first place. I didn't.

Re:Kinda implies (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352543)

Same here.

Re:Kinda implies (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352625)

Do you still beat your wife?

I'm married to my drum kit (5, Funny)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 8 months ago | (#46352753)

I'm married to my drum kit, you insensitive clod!

Re:I'm married to my drum kit (0)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about 8 months ago | (#46352817)

either that or your dong.

Re:Kinda implies (-1, Troll)

oodaloop (1229816) | about 8 months ago | (#46352829)

Does your mother know you're an idiot?

Re:Kinda implies (1)

x0ra (1249540) | about 8 months ago | (#46352879)

I've got her consent when I do.

Re:Kinda implies (2)

alexhs (877055) | about 8 months ago | (#46352697)

Kinda implies that I ever trusted Bitcoin in the first place. I didn't.

Exactly, that's why the answer to the question is mu [wikipedia.org] .

Re:Kinda implies (1)

lgw (121541) | about 8 months ago | (#46352723)

I trust Bitcoin to hold some value as much as I trust Magic the Gathering cards to (poor MtGoX). Which is to say: more than 0. As long as people are interested, they'll have value, and neither was a passing fad. But I do expect the value to drop a bunch, to where mining may no longer be practical only for new bitcoins. How will bitcoin do when transaction fees become a real thing (if still small)?

Re:Kinda implies (3, Insightful)

goombah99 (560566) | about 8 months ago | (#46352765)

What I dislike about bitcoin is that if someone steals your money, you can't get it back even if you catch them. They have the password. Magic The Gathering Online eXchange, was a stupid place to entrust your passwords.

Re:Kinda implies (0)

Enry (630) | about 8 months ago | (#46352805)

The Magic part should have been a tell to most people.

My guess (5, Interesting)

goombah99 (560566) | about 8 months ago | (#46352887)

I speculate that the real story behind mT Gox is not the one they are telling us. My guess is that back when bitcoins were worth pennies that Mt Gox needed a bridge loan to cover a shorfall in revenues wrt to expenses. I imagine they gave themselves a loan from their holdings intending to pay it back from downstream revenues. But then bit coin went 10,000 fold in exchange rate and they could never pay back the 400 million that was now due. Their only hope was to either wait for the market price to drop, or to act like a ponzi scheme where they paid demands out of other depositors money. All of which they could do because they controlled the coins. Even if they paid everything back but $4000 of an original bit coin loan, that would now be worth the 400 million they are short. Perhaps they also boofed the maliabile ID too at some point, but they would have easily detected that instantly because their total assets would be different that their total liabilities. Unless of course they already had a deficit in assets that was masking that.

Re:Kinda implies (0)

TsuruchiBrian (2731979) | about 8 months ago | (#46352941)

You can't get your money back from a person who steals your money and buries it at an undisclosed location either. Maybe you can get your money back in some other way (like through liquidation of assets, or wage garnishment), but then you could do that with bitcoin as well.

I much prefer a system where others can't take my money without my approval, over one where I am somewhat protected if a give my money to a crook by mistake.

It's not that I wouldn't like to be able to get my money back. It's that when you have this mechanism, you open the door to abuse. Governments can freeze the money in your bank account. They can take your car or house away if it was used to sell drugs (which are illegal but not immoral).

Every way to store/transact money carries risks. I accept the risk that people may break promises if I give them money. I prefer this risk to allowing the government authority to take my money through cooperation of my bank if they feel justified. If the government were a better arbiter of fairness, I might be convinced, but there are just as many crooks in the government as out on the streets.

Re:Kinda implies (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352971)

they can't spend the money if they bury it so it's effectively lost to them. But someone who has take your bit coins can still spend them even from inside a prison.

Interesting (1)

The Cat (19816) | about 8 months ago | (#46352535)

How Bitcoin starts gaining a bit of traction and then goes straight to hell in a week.

Re:Interesting (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352619)

You believe Lucifer was involved as well? I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this.

Re:Interesting (1)

geekmux (1040042) | about 8 months ago | (#46352763)

You believe Lucifer was involved as well? I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this.

Of course. How else do you think he got down 666 layers in the Abyss?

He's got one hell of a mining machine.

Re:Interesting (2)

un1nsp1red (2503532) | about 8 months ago | (#46352655)

How did it go to hell? It looks like the market price barely had a blip. And that's *despite* Forbes [forbes.com] and others [latimes.com] declaring it dead.

Re:Interesting (2)

Ralph Wiggam (22354) | about 8 months ago | (#46352751)

Bitcoin has been gaining traction for a long time. Did you notice the run from $5 to $1200?

Never Did Trust it (2, Insightful)

icebike (68054) | about 8 months ago | (#46352537)

Its a passtime, and a toy. I never did have any trust in it. It seemed ripe for running afoul of governments sooner or later.

The idea of wasting perfectly good electricity creating something of value out of nothing at all never head any of my interest, even when I did manage to buy a book with bitcoin once. (I earned the bitcoin by selling a piece of software that I wrote, so easy come, easy go).

Re:Never Did Trust it (4, Insightful)

roc97007 (608802) | about 8 months ago | (#46352617)

> The idea of wasting perfectly good electricity creating something of value out of nothing at all [...]

Don't let De Beers hear you talking like that.

Re:Never Did Trust it (3, Insightful)

ewibble (1655195) | about 8 months ago | (#46352929)

sort of like the government printing "real" money. except you are also wasting paper, and ink.

Objection! (2, Insightful)

carou (88501) | about 8 months ago | (#46352541)

I never trusted Bitcoin.

The digital tulip wilts (1)

gatkinso (15975) | about 8 months ago | (#46352545)

Only to grow anew in the spring.... ...mark my words.

Re:The digital tulip wilts (1)

smitty_one_each (243267) | about 8 months ago | (#46352839)

Sorry, Germany opted for the Euro.

i trust nothing (1)

FudRucker (866063) | about 8 months ago | (#46352555)

i would rather see platinum, gold, palladium and silver made in to coins and used as currency, at least the government can not counterfeit it like they do with the USD (QE infinity)

Re:i trust nothing (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352641)

so... you trust gold?

Re:i trust nothing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352691)

He does and I do too

Re:i trust nothing (2)

geekmux (1040042) | about 8 months ago | (#46352729)

so... you trust gold?

Yes, and quite frankly, that was the last time we actually had any real stability behind the USD, when we actually had a gold standard to tie it to.

Now, all we do is back our USD with arrogance and violence. And the gold was gone long ago.

Re:i trust nothing (3, Interesting)

E++99 (880734) | about 8 months ago | (#46352789)

There is far more stability in USD now than when it was tied to gold. How soon people forget.

Re:i trust nothing (1)

noh8rz10 (2716597) | about 8 months ago | (#46352853)

so if I am arrogant and violent I get more gold? how come you didn't tell me that before, you jerk!

Re:i trust nothing (1)

TsuruchiBrian (2731979) | about 8 months ago | (#46352759)

How are you supposed to buy things from online stores with gold? File off some shavings into an envelope and mail order stuff from online? Are we really going to all carry gold and silver coins in our pockets when we go shopping?

Gold isn't really useful as a currency if it is just sitting in a vault.

Re:i trust nothing (1)

FudRucker (866063) | about 8 months ago | (#46352809)

i rather buy from brick & mortar stores, too many times i would buy something from amazon and regretted it because it was too small, too big, too cheaply made, i want to see the product in person before deciding to buy it, shopping online mostly sucks!!!

I trust bitcoin itself just fine.... (4, Informative)

ewhenn (647989) | about 8 months ago | (#46352561)

I trust bitcoin itself just fine... it's the third party exchanges I don't trust.

Re:I trust bitcoin itself just fine.... (3, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#46352637)

I trust bitcoin itself just fine... it's the third party exchanges I don't trust.

Foo.

That's preposterous. It's like saying you trust Dollars just fine, but don't trust the banks...

...

'k, I'll shut up now.

Re:I trust bitcoin itself just fine.... (3, Insightful)

Evan Teran (2911843) | about 8 months ago | (#46352775)

Not exactly a fair comparison. I only trust banks because they are insured and if they "lose" my money then I will have recourse to recover it. With the online bitcoin exchanges, there is no such thing.

Re:I trust bitcoin itself just fine.... (3, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#46352885)

Not exactly a fair comparison. I only trust banks because they are insured and if they "lose" my money then I will have recourse to recover it. With the online bitcoin exchanges, there is no such thing.

2008 should teach you one thing - when the banks screw up, the execs make sure they never have to pay for their poor decision making - they pull the strings and make the representatives they own dance to their tune. It's not that nothing was learned from 1929, something was, it's to make sure the people at the top continue to line their nests and their lackeys in government make sure they can continue to do whatever. The belief that the banks are now all square is an illusion, they've borrowed from the Federal Reserve to pay back the government loans. With the government borrowing like a gambling addict to prop the economy up, one thing was lost - value of the dollar, it's nowhere as strong as it once was, nor buys as much as it did in early 2008.

My reply (1)

aliquis (678370) | about 8 months ago | (#46352783)

Yes.

Then again if you have a lot of value stored in it you better take good care of your identifications. As with GPG keys and such ..

Eh? (3, Informative)

the eric conspiracy (20178) | about 8 months ago | (#46352573)

This is like asking when you stopped beating your wife.

It assumes a positive that for most people doesn't exist.

Re:Eh? (0)

x0ra (1249540) | about 8 months ago | (#46352945)

Why is everybody asking this "beat your wife" question with a negative thought in mind ? Or is your morals (and sexual experiences) narrow enough to be unable to compute that 'beating' can actually be consensual, and quite enjoyable to both party ? Some would be ready to a lot of degradation to get a good adrenaline dump, no matter what YOUR system of value mandates.

False choice (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 8 months ago | (#46352577)

Bitcoin was (still is...) an interesting experiment, and I watch it with interest. But trust? C'mon, that's like saying "do you still trust Windows 1.0?"

Re:False choice (2)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#46352615)

Poor choice for analogy since Windows 1.0 was only ever a weak beta. Try 8.0, it's a weak full release with malarkey marketing monkey behind it.

Re:False choice (1)

roc97007 (608802) | about 8 months ago | (#46352851)

Poor choice for analogy since Windows 1.0 was only ever a weak beta. Try 8.0, it's a weak full release with malarkey marketing monkey behind it.

I understand what you're saying, (and agree with the assessment of 8.0) but I can't go there. The concept of Bitcoin is interesting, even if the implementation might be lacking. What I was trying to say is that it's too much to expect one to "trust" version 1.0 of anything. (Or in this case, one could argue that it was version .9 or less.)

Yes. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352579)

Other than the fact that I lost most of my bitcoins and also a large amount of money...

There is an adage that if something appears too go (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352583)

There is an adage that if something appears too good to be true then it usually is too good to be true. Especially concerned as to the absence of explanation for the Mt.Gox collapse: never a good sign

Still?!? (1, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | about 8 months ago | (#46352595)

I've never trusted it. If I mine a coin I'll sell it, tout suite!

Re:Still?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352747)

"tout de suite"

Re:Still?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352797)

Drette là

Only one player (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352603)

Let me answer your question with a question. Do you trust the US Dollar less because of the Leaman Brothers collapse? Trusting or not trusting a currency (virtual, or fiat) based on the actions of one player, regardless of how large, makes no sense. I believe in what Bitcoin is about, I trust it more than I trust the banks and government. I still need fiat money to pay my bills, but would prefer to live without the banks who have already shown to not be trustworthy.

Re:Only one player (3, Insightful)

Enry (630) | about 8 months ago | (#46352777)

Let me answer your question with a question. Do you trust the US Dollar less because of the Leaman Brothers collapse? Trusting or not trusting a currency (virtual, or fiat) based on the actions of one player, regardless of how large, makes no sense. I believe in what Bitcoin is about, I trust it more than I trust the banks and government. I still need fiat money to pay my bills, but would prefer to live without the banks who have already shown to not be trustworthy.

*headdesk*

I'm going to say this as simply as I can:

Bitcoin is also fiat currency

There's nothing backing it. Zero, zip, zilch. At least the US dollar is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government, and it's been that way for 40 years. Bitcoin hasn't lasted 10.

Re:Only one player (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352957)

Bitcoin isn't currency, it's a commodity. And fiat currencies like the USD may not be backed by anything tangible, but like you said they're backed by the U.S. Currencies like the USD have value enforced at the point of a gun. That is, the U.S. Govt only accepts USD for payment of taxes, and they enforce tax collection through law.

Re:Only one player (1)

Nutria (679911) | about 8 months ago | (#46352793)

but would prefer to live without the banks who have already shown to not be trustworthy.

When was the last time a bank did something squirrelly with your checking or savings account?

Poor wording (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352607)

Never did.

Blame the gamers (1)

nicoleb_x (1571029) | about 8 months ago | (#46352621)

Clearly Bitcoin's downfall was the cannibalization of gamer video cards for bitcoin mining and the related price increases of those cards. Gamer's know alternative currencies and bitcoin wasn't one they liked.

I still waiting for the fellow who says yes.... (1)

Timmy D Programmer (704067) | about 8 months ago | (#46352627)

I got some sweet real estate to sell them!

This is not a simple question (4, Insightful)

SampleFish (2769857) | about 8 months ago | (#46352633)

BitCoin, by nature, is as trustworthy as SHA256 which is used by TLS, SSL, PGP, SSH, S/MIME, and IPsec. So the math behind BitCoin is trusted by most of the world whether or not you are aware of that fact.

As a currency it is just as trustworthy as any other imaginary money system. It's value is highly speculative, like the NYSE. Nobody really trusts the NYSE just as you shouldn't trust the value of BitCoin.

That being said, cryptocurrencies have the potential to be more stable than fiat currencies. BitCoin may not be the final solution but behold as we are watching the future of money unfold. History is in the making.

Re:This is not a simple question (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352831)

BitCoin, by nature, is as trustworthy as SHA256 which is used by TLS, SSL, PGP, SSH, S/MIME, and IPsec. So the math behind BitCoin is trusted by most of the world whether or not you are aware of that fact.

As a currency it is just as trustworthy as any other imaginary money system. It's value is highly speculative, like the NYSE. Nobody really trusts the NYSE just as you shouldn't trust the value of BitCoin.

That being said, cryptocurrencies have the potential to be more stable than fiat currencies. BitCoin may not be the final solution but behold as we are watching the future of money unfold. History is in the making.

+ 1000

Re:This is not a simple question (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352871)

"It's value is highly speculative, like the NYSE".

This part of your comments raises a bit of a red flag.

Tip: Don't confuse speculation with investment.

Purchasing a diversified basket of NYSE-listed stocks can be an investment. Purchasing tulip bulbs, Chinese yuan currency, or bitcoins, is speculation. There are admitedly degrees of one or the other, but if you don't understand the distinction between the two concepts of investment vs speculation, it's good for your financial health that you learn via Wikipedia/google rather than bitter experience.

Re:This is not a simple question (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352897)

Yuh huh, look into the history of monetary regulation, or rather the lack of regulation and where that got people.

aka

how hobo is formed

As compared to what..? (3, Insightful)

geekmux (1040042) | about 8 months ago | (#46352643)

Do I still trust bitcoin?

How much trust did you have in our financial system circa 2008, right after the financial meltdown?

After you watched the most notorious criminals of our time (a.k.a. bankers) get away with financial genocide and got to keep their jobs and their bonuses, how much trust should you have in the current system? We don't arrest or prosecute financial criminals. We reward them.

Sorry, but bitcoin is no more stable than any other currency. Only the criminals in charge want you to believe it is. And we pay them millions to do so, so might as well STFU about stability. We don't even give a shit about the current system to protect it from crashing again, much less any new ones.

Re:As compared to what..? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352911)

We reward them.
 
True but, by and large, we also maintained the status quo. Bitcoin has lost half it's value in the last 3 months. When's the last time you seen that in a currency market for any first world country?
 
  Sorry, but bitcoin is no more stable than any other currency....
 
Either you've misspoke you you're willing to make no sense at all.

Blame (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352645)

If you don't trust Bitcoin, I assume you don't trust rifles, bombs, cash, diamonds, computers or math either. What happened here is a company (MtGox) was dishonest and took money from its customers. It happens with cash all the time. Is cash to blame for this?

Just rename it bitdot: news about bitcoin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352649)

Give it a rest already. We'll find out if bitcoin survives or not without having another story every couple of hours.

To distrust bitcoin b/c of mt gox problems is like (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352659)

To distrust bitcoin b/c of mt gox problems is like distrusting email because of gmail problems.

Never trusted bitcoin in the first place. (1)

Noryungi (70322) | about 8 months ago | (#46352661)

Several reasons:

1) OK, has anyone - preferably someone with solid crypto/math credentials - ever audited the fscking crypto behind Bitcoin? Anyone? Not that I know of.
2) Even if the basic crypto is sound, what about the wallet software? Surprise, surprise, it seems this is how Mt Gox was attacked... And wasn't a TV talking head wallet hacked after he showed the number on the air? Oooops...
3) Any "market" where the majority of the "product" [businessinsider.com] is owned by a very small group of people [bitcoinexaminer.org] is not a free market - it's a cartel. And cartels usually are up to no good...

So, no, Bitcoin IMHO is not to be trusted.

Re:Never trusted bitcoin in the first place. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352835)

1) OK, has anyone - preferably someone with solid crypto/math credentials - ever audited the fscking crypto behind Bitcoin? Anyone? Not that I know of.

That is the dumbest thing I've heard anyone say in weeks.
But, no, I'm sure you're totally right. Nobody has ever given any thought behind SHA256... I mean, it's not like it's used as the American Encryption Standard (AES), SSL / TLS, or anything else that's important, right?

2) Even if the basic crypto is sound, what about the wallet software? Surprise, surprise, it seems this is how Mt Gox was attacked... And wasn't a TV talking head wallet hacked after he showed the number on the air? Oooops...

So... you have no clue how the wallets work, nor what happend to Mt. Gox, and then went on to compare an actual crypto wallet to a paper wallet (which is basically just a print out including all the information needed to extract money from it). Wow. I'm getting the odd feeling you have no clue what you're talking about.

3) Any "market" where the majority of the "product" [businessinsider.com] is owned by a very small group of people [bitcoinexaminer.org] is not a free market - it's a cartel. And cartels usually are up to no good...

So the US dollar is a vastly more powerful cartel?

Please refrain from making any more comments on crypto currencies until you have the slightest idea as to what it is or how it works.

Re:Never trusted bitcoin in the first place. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352923)

1) Yes. It's open source and it's being constantly audited by people. See current open issues on the Github page.

2) MtGox was attacked because they had written wallet software with bugs. Blame them, not Bitcoin itself. The Bitcoin client (or "wallet software") doesn't have this problem.

3) So, don't trust any major player in today's software world.

Replace Bitcoin with "Android", "IOS", "Windows", "Facebook", "VISA" or almost any product or service and the same holds.

Re:Never trusted bitcoin in the first place. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352943)

3) Any "market" where the majority of the "product" [businessinsider.com] is owned by a very small group of people [bitcoinexaminer.org] is not a free market - it's a cartel. And cartels usually are up to no good...

So, no, Bitcoin IMHO is not to be trusted.

The "majority"? You're fucking kidding me with this shit, right?

I suppose that whole concept of the 99% vs. the 1% in reference to our current monetary split somehow doesn't count as a "majority" in your eyes. Interesting math you have there. Reminds me of a banker.

And I wholeheartedly laugh at the idea that those controlling the USD are somehow not "up to no good", since we've only fined the major banking institutions trillions for violations that they continue to do every fucking day. The whole damn global system almost came crashing down in 2008. Won't be long before they accomplish that feat permanently, because we have done nothing to stop it from happening again. (That would be due to the cartel in charge who are writing their own financial laws in case you were wondering)

Believe me the bullshit we have now isn't any more stable. You just believe the cartel when they say it is.

Bitcoin is a hoot (3)

MindPrison (864299) | about 8 months ago | (#46352671)

Sure is, it clearly demonstrate how easy it is to get someone to invest in virtual money without any real substance. Sure, you could argue that you could convert real money (whatever that is, paper?) to bitcoin and lock it with some encryption and a unique footprint, but it's still pretty much a virtual currency that in theory means nothing, practically...it's what YOU put in it...that makes up the actual value - that is - if you can manage to get your money, once you received your payment from someone.

To me, this is an interesting experiment, one that I watch closely. I read about this guy who invested in Bitcoins in the early stages, he paid very little for them, and some years later...he was allegedly a MILLIONAIRE because of his forgotten Bitcoins, yay... All the wannabees who SO wished they had bought Bitcoins back in the early days, just to find out a few months later - that no one really want to recognize Bitcoin as a real valid currency, yes - I'm having a laugh.

Re:Bitcoin is a hoot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352877)

I paid three K for my Bitcoins last april. Cashed a few out in Jan. this year.

Jan. 7, 2014 International wire transfer $32,841.99 Finished

Funny huh?

suck it.

Re:Bitcoin is a hoot (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352903)

> it's what YOU put in it.

Just like USD you dumbass. You CONservatives are all the same. You can't make a rational argument so you just shout nonsense. Even more annoying is how you people always have to make everything about politics. Seriously, just stop. The readers here are not like your kind. We know better.

History repeating (4, Insightful)

AdamHaun (43173) | about 8 months ago | (#46352677)

Oh look, a bank-like entity failed and people lost money. Good thing the FDIC is there to--

Oops.

If cryptocurrencies are going to repeat the last 100+ years of economic history, can they hurry up and rediscover monetary policy too?

From Slashdot? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352683)

So stupid this question, this is like asking "Do you trust the dollar" right after Bear Stearns collapsed. One has nothing to do with the other. Incompetence and perhaps fraud has nothing to do with the value of anything. GOX != Bitcoin.

Bitcoin needed this (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352687)

This is the kind of flushing out of weak players you need for Bitcoin to stabilize and be taken seriously. This is a good thing in the long term.

This will also get more regulators involved. Again, a plus for long term stability and adoption.

Yes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352695)

The problem here isn't bitcoin, it's the lack of security from 3rd parties and vulnerabilities within their websites. Bitcoin has the potential to make a person very rich and as such will have a higher risk of someone wanting to steal them. The easiest way for them to do that is either to attack websites that deal with it or go after the end users who use it. With that being said, most if not all bitcoin exchangers/ mining pools have had a ddos. Despite the senate hearing and bitcoin having positive feedback, who's to say that the fbi isn't secretly trying to discredit it or have it fail simply because of it being associated with the silk road.

I don't trust the government (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352705)

I suspect the US government will eventually make bit coin illegal which, of course, won't cause it to loose all its value. But its use in the united states will be reduced and I could image the US government mass arresting people who hold bit coin similar to how they arrest people who have other contraband.

Not at all! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352707)

It's an interesting experiment, but only that.
As much as we may despise some of the red tape in financial transactions with "regular" currencies, there are good reasons for many of the regulations.

Mt. Gox illustrates one of them..

Yes ! (1)

Khalid (31037) | about 8 months ago | (#46352709)

What doesn't kill me, makes me stronger ! this saying surely apply for bitcoin.

This is juste a passing youth crisis, bitcoin will probably recover, the genie is out of the battle and nothing can put it back. Bitcoin will probably correct it's problems and continue it's march toward world domination .... fast !

I've never trusted BitCoin (4, Insightful)

JMZero (449047) | about 8 months ago | (#46352711)

There was money to be made at certain points, sure - and there may be more money to be made in the future. I'm sure some people have done quite well. But that doesn't mean any significant involvement with BitCoin going forward is a good idea.

Trusting "BitCoin" isn't exactly what's important. To invest in or use BitCoins significantly, you'll end up trusting other people - and how do you know to trust those people, especially as the stakes get higher and higher? Banking and securities trading have a web of trust and regulation that's been built out over centuries. There's failure states and scandals, sure, but you have reasonable tools to decide who to trust and how much.

What I see in people's experience with BitCoin is often a long string of red flags - difficulties doing withdrawals and transfers, huge fluctuations in value, varying exchange rates that nobody is able to arbitrage - all met with too few questions and far too much exuberance.

Short answer, yes (1)

Linsaran (728833) | about 8 months ago | (#46352713)

I trust that bitcoin will continue to be a currency with value and use until something else comes along that replaces it (and given BitCoins incumbent status as king of the cryptocurency world is I believe, unlikely in the near future. There are a number of 'altcoins' which each seek to improve upon BitCoin's core functionality in some way or another, but none of them have successfully come close to dethroning BTC).

Bitcoin has a lot of functional benefits as a system for transferring value, even if it is eventually determined that its volatility ultimately makes it unsuitable as a currency for conducting day to day business with. This is especially true when it comes to international transactions. Currently the fees for transmitting USD across international wires, not to mention conversion to local currency (if needed) are significant, and time consuming (I've oft seen quotes of international wires taking 2-3 weeks to complete, depending on where it's going and what not). On the other hand, a bitcoin transaction is instantaneous, and after roughly 60 minutes is pretty much irrevocably entered into the block chain so that there is no possibility of the funds being lost or otherwise delayed in transmit.

Now does this mean that I trust bitcoin to go up, or down, or sideways, or do anything else? Well, I'd like to say I'm hopeful for a strong future for the currency, and I trust that in the long run bitcoin will eventually stabilize as it matures more, but in the short term, we're still in the wild west so to speak.

What if? (5, Insightful)

TsuruchiBrian (2731979) | about 8 months ago | (#46352719)

What if you went to an Indian casino, exchanged your dollars for chips, and when you went to leave and cash out your remaining chips, they refused to exchange the chips for dollars, and instead decided to close shop. Would you still trust the dollar?

That's essentially analogous to what this article is asking. Maybe bitcoin has porblems. It's too volatile to be an effective unit of cost. Those are separate issues from the problems Mt. Gox is having.

Even the dollar has problems with corruption and cronyism involving the treasury, the fed, wallstreet, and too big to fail banks, that doesn't mean that an indian casino deciding to steal your money is due to any weakness in the dollar. That's just a business failing to uphold a promise either through theft or incompetence.

Mt Gox is a financial institution that didn't have it's shit together. Yes it dealt in bitcoins. It also dealt equally in dollars and other currencies (i.e. because it was an exchange). That doesn't mean it the dollar or bitcoin is weak. They still could be, but it's not because of Mt. Gox.

Sure, why not? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352739)

Have you stopped using the mail protocol after the Lavabit web email service closed down?

Have you stopped using the internet after vulnerabilities in some routers where discovered?

Have you stopped using credit cards after the last great Korean hack of 30.000.000 users data? Well, probably you should think about this one...

Other exchanges do not manage the currency (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352741)

The currency is managed by a decentralized network of computers which maintain a distributed database of transactions through "mining", which is a cryptographic work proof that prevents any single entity from manipulating the database. The exchanges "only" facilitate trading between fiat currencies and crypto currencies. Giving bitcoins to someone else or receiving bitcoins is an entirely decentralized process and does not require exchanges or banks.

Re: Other exchanges do not manage the currency (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352975)

And handing cash to another person under the table is somehow less decentralized? Been working quite well in underground circles for centuries! And if you think an electronic anything is "untraceable" you need a mental exam, pronto! I think it's probably the most traceable monetary idea, well ever!

I trust it just as much as I always have (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352767)

Specifically, I trust it to deliver regular doses of shadenfreude and libertarian nerd tears.

Considering how much Republicans... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352769)

hate it, that proves it's a good thing.

What do you mean "still"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352773)

No one with an grain of common sense trusted it in the first place.

I trust bitcoin (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352779)

It's only when it is gathered in mass in on place that I get itchy. Mt. Gox is natural progression. As long as there is banks, there will be bank robbers.

I invited reddit for some fun (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352807)

The reddit crew is here ready to defend their turf. Let the games begin!

tractors (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352813)

Blaming Bitcoin for these problems at MtGox is like blaming tractors for a dealer that goes bankrupt.

Tractors are done, I never trusted those filthy toys. Let's go back to using horses to farm.

Clearly tractors downfall was the combination of steel and oil both of which can deteriorate, what a farce. Tractors bah.

I've never trusted tractors, If I inherit one I sell the damn thing tout suite.

That's how ignorant some of you sound...

Go get educated. Bitcoin didn't "die"... MtGox did. And good riddance. Moon.

Bernie (1)

ebonum (830686) | about 8 months ago | (#46352819)

One could ask: after Bernie Madoff how could you ever trust a fund manager again?

At some point Visa or Bank of America will start exchanging bit coins and change very high fees. They will have the same internal controls they use for the rest of their business. We don't need any innovation. The old processes work today and will work in the future. We need some company who knows how to run a transactional financial service to set up a service for bit coins. This does not exist today.

I don't trust Mt.Gox, but it's too late for that. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352841)

I lost 1.3 BTC. That's at least partly my fault for not paying attention to what was going on at MTGox. On the other hand, I sold 1.2 for $1500 on Black Friday, so I did ok. I had bought the 2.5 for $50. :)

So Mt.Gox was either full of incompetents or crooks. Or both. But that has to do with the "bank", not the currency. It'd be nice if they were protected by the Federal Government, but again, that's not a problem with the currency itself. I won't believe that there's something wrong with Bitcoins themselves unless someone shows a reliable way of stealing them that isn't based on user incompetence but instead on the currency itself.

BTW, is there anyone out there insuring Bitcoins against loss or theft? Maybe that's too risky to do, but there'd certainly be a market after this mess.

Do you still not believe it's a bubble ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352861)

Open your wallets, I have some extremely valuable tulips to sell you, they used to be worth 2 houses but they're currentty worth 10

bitcoin is not independent and that's a problem (1)

jinchoung (629691) | about 8 months ago | (#46352863)

its value is pegged to "real" money.

if it never or rarely converted to government backed cash, then it is viable. goods and services for bitcoins. that's a closed loop system that can be completely independent of all the players its purporting to avoid.

but since people are buying into and cashing out and even SPECULATING with real currency, then you have an achilles heel.

the point at which conversion happens IS regulated and guarded by government players and is actually and IDEAL place for governments to actually sabotage the entire endeavor if they wanted to.

so until bitcoins slash any and all ties with real currencies and certainly until it loses all DEPENDENCE on them, they are just a new forex player that is highly unstable and insecure.

Doomed! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 8 months ago | (#46352889)

It only survives if it is regulated by governernments (maybe?), and that defeats the purpose! The current failures are only the tip of the iceberg. The concept has no actual underlying support, other than difficult to solve hashes... It'll get hacked over and over! Pump-and-dump mixed with pyramid scams... As we have learned, a currency must have BAILOUT support to survive, if only for awhile... I suspect most of the participants will loose everything before long!

Nothing changed except theory becoming reality (1)

gman003 (1693318) | about 8 months ago | (#46352913)

Bitcoin is, by design, unregulated and unregulatable. That gives it strengths - the feds cannot seize your funds effectively, nor can your spending be monitored effectively. But it also gives it weaknesses - namely, the "banks" and other financial institutions are not inspected or insured, meaning they can "fail" rather easily either through mishap or malice.

Anyone who thought that something like this wouldn't happen is a fucking idiot.

But the fact that it could, and did, happen, just means the system is operating as designed, flaws and all. If you think the design was good, well, this doesn't change anything. If you think it was bad, now you have proof that one of the flaws can actually manifest, but that still doesn't automatically mean those flaws outweigh the benefits of the system.

Now, there is a good argument to be had about just how bad that flaw is. But so far we've had very few Bitcoin failures, too few IMO to really predict how frequently they will occur in the future. So that argument isn't going to be settled for a long while.

As for me, I'm still more concerned about speculators than about failing or fraudulent exchanges. I'll join up with cryptocurrencies once the waves of speculative investors die down - I trust them enough as currencies, but as an investment they're a horrible gamble.

It's working quite well (1)

Trogre (513942) | about 8 months ago | (#46352955)

Bitcoin now functions as a wonderful scam perpetuated by electricity retailers, and so far is yielding impressive returns for those investors.

Isn't bitcoin meant to be decentralized ? (1)

x0ra (1249540) | about 8 months ago | (#46352963)

If so, how can the fall of a centralization point lead to such a loss

Please excuse my ignorance, but there is something I do not get here...

So far yes (1)

jmd (14060) | about 8 months ago | (#46352965)

What I don't trust is the servers that people store their coins/cash on. I transfer my BTC and cash in and out as needed. I invested in BTC. I mine BTC. I support BTC.

Anyone who reads any technology sites should know by now that computer systems are woefully unsecured. Why would anyone leave a few million bucks (or 20 for that matter) sitting on someone elses system.

The real irony of the exchanges disappearing is that people want an unregulated currency. Well, guess what comes along with unregulated currency? If you promote unregulated currency you had better be prepared to do the work yourself to deter theft, ponzi scheme or whatever snakes lay in the grass.

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