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Ask AtheOS Creator Kurt Skauen About His Creature

timothy posted about 13 years ago | from the no-x-no-worries dept.

News 278

Developer Kurt Skauen, programming for fun, ended up answering the frequent cries to write a graphical Free OS not tied to the X Window system by doing just that. His AtheOS has been mentioned here a few times before -- it's a Free (as in GPL) Operating System for Intel-and-compatible CPUs with an integrated GUI, a tendency toward POSIX, and more than a hint of BeOS. There are quite a few sites with more information about AtheOS, but you may have trouble just getting past the beautiful screenshots and nearly as beautiful AtheOS FAQ. (There are also ASCII parrots.) Ask Kurt about the past, present, and future of AtheOS here (ask as many questions as you'd like, but please only one per post) and we'll forward the best ones to Kurt for his answers.

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278 comments

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Feline Poop? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213385)

Bite me LambdaMOOers!

last (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213388)

faust proust

Windows apps? (4, Interesting)

JohnTheFisherman (225485) | about 13 years ago | (#2213390)

I know a lot of people hate Windows here, but it certainly has the lion's share of apps. Can/will/do you plan to add a windows emulation layer, or some fairly painless way of running Windows apps? Same for X/GTK/etc.

Re:Windows apps? (4, Insightful)

n3m6 (101260) | about 13 years ago | (#2213468)

why not include a DirectX emulation ?? it would be easier on his OS since its not tied to X and input devices are not a seperately controlled.. if he could do that could this be the next gaming platform ?? now that would be serious competition..

I'd love to see that... (2)

Midnight Ryder (116189) | about 13 years ago | (#2213761)

why not include a DirectX emulation ?? it would be easier on his OS since its not tied to X and input devices are not a seperately controlled.. if he could do that could this be the next gaming platform ?? now that would be serious competition..


I'd love to see that. A nice, tight Gaming OS that's Windows compatable with full DirectX emulation would be friggin' awsome. Probably never happen, unluckly - that's A LOT of bloody work to do to get even enough Windows compatibility to run games. (And, well - I was involved in a project to do something like that once. Long ago... the project in question (Freedows) appears to be dead and gone now...) None of the projects that have set out to do something like that have flopped so far. Doesn't mean it's IMPOSSIBLE, just damned hard.


But if it ever happened - I'd have me an MS free game machine built very quickly :-) (And no, a Linux box doesn't count as an MS free game machine - most of the games I want to play don't have Linux versions :-/ )


Re:Windows apps? (2)

Bonker (243350) | about 13 years ago | (#2213472)

Mod this guy up, because this was my question as well.

Of course, it's possible that WINE, Win4Lin or one of the others will port or compile fairly easily under AtheOS.

poor web server (0, Redundant)

jpostel (114922) | about 13 years ago | (#2213394)

everytime anyone links to atheos, the server is crushed. i could not even see the lovely ascii parrots the last time the site got slashdotted.

;ob

mmmm...BeOS

Re:poor web server (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213444)

here's an ASCII parrot for ya, bub...

_
<O)
(\\
X
8===D

Re:poor web server (0, Offtopic)

jpostel (114922) | about 13 years ago | (#2213485)

thank you, kind AC. no one knows my pain of not having ascii parrots.

;oD

Re:poor web server (0, Redundant)

jpostel (114922) | about 13 years ago | (#2213474)

how lame of me. i respond to my own post.

i was moderated down as redundant for a joke that i posted because someone else made the same joke later.

i was moderated down as redundant for a joke that i posted because someone else made the same joke later.

now that was redundant. moderate for the fun, not for the money. can't we all just get along.

Now what? (5, Interesting)

baptiste (256004) | about 13 years ago | (#2213395)

My question: Sure you did this for fun and it is a beautiful OS. But as it gains attention and user interest, do you have a target audience in mind? Who do you think should use AtheOS - who will derive the most benefit?

Re:Now what? (3, Interesting)

dr_labrat (15478) | about 13 years ago | (#2213715)

What did linus say when he created linux??

I think he hasically created it cause he wanted to..

Why climb that mountain? yadda yadda..

Other developers (3, Interesting)

rppp01 (236599) | about 13 years ago | (#2213402)

I have noticed that you prefer to work on the kernel and UI portions by yourself, leaving apps and drivers to other developers. When do you plan on allowing other developers to begin working on the core of the OS with you? This would speed up development of the OS.

Re:Other developers (1)

dinivin (444905) | about 13 years ago | (#2213639)


Though I obviously can't speak for Kurt, he doesn't seem the least bit opposed to adding patches from other developers to the UI code. Just this week he added a patch (from another developer) that would allow Intellimouse scroll wheel to libatheos.

Dinivin

Re:Other developers (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213721)

The IntelliMouse patch is the execption rather than the rule, really.

It's cool that he has accepted the patch, but you shouldn't assume that you can go mucking about with the kernel or libatheos/appserver and expect Kurt to accept the patch with open arms. Honestly.

Re:Other developers (1)

dinivin (444905) | about 13 years ago | (#2213754)


Well, I wouldn't sent off a patch to Alan Cox or Linus and expect them to accept it with open arms either... :-) At the very least, I'd check with Kurt before mucking around in that code.

Dinivin

My question (1, Offtopic)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | about 13 years ago | (#2213405)

Are you scared of religious groups attacking your OS because they believe it's an atheist one?

And what DOES it mean? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213525)

I didn't see it in the FAQ.

Re:And what DOES it mean? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213624)

AtheOS == Athena (Greek Goddess) + OS (Operating System)

It doesn't mean anything, not intentionally so. Anyone who tells you otherwise is being a tool, ignore them :)

Re:And what DOES it mean? (1)

Dragonmaster Lou (34532) | about 13 years ago | (#2213718)

Perhaps, but it also turns out that "Atheos" means "without a god" in Greek, purely by accident.

Re:And what DOES it mean? (1)

Vanders (110092) | about 13 years ago | (#2213793)

Yup, however

It wasn't intentional

Most people involved with AtheOS know this already :)

Why should anyone care? :)

AtheOS used to be named AltOS, under Kurt discovered the name was owned by someone else, so it became AtheOS.

Thats really all there is too it :)

Re:My question (2)

Tim Macinta (1052) | about 13 years ago | (#2213674)

Are you scared of religious groups attacking your OS because they believe it's an atheist one?

At least there's no need to worry about losing market share to christian hackers as they're already running Jesux [geocities.com] .

My question is... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213407)

If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?

I would like to dedicate this question to Natalie Portman, naked and petrified, and hot grits poured down pants. Thank you.

Re:My question is... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213546)

Ahh!
It's nice to see that the old ways of petrified, barely legal girls and the pouring of hot grits down one's pants is still not forgotten.
Keep up the trolling, Anonymous Coward

Web Server (1)

mac123 (25118) | about 13 years ago | (#2213409)

Sadly, it appears that the performance of the AtheOS port of a web server is lacking

Re:Web Server (1)

Gantoris (442791) | about 13 years ago | (#2213427)

Do you think its possibly being /.ed?

Re:Web Server (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213428)

And how many ports of a Web server can handle the \. effect?

Re:Web Server (2)

be-fan (61476) | about 13 years ago | (#2213730)

\.? What is that? Is there a Windows version of /. floating around somewhere?

Re:Web Server (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213464)

sadly, it appears that you are a cock sucking faggot.

early linux parallels (1, Troll)

Proud Geek (260376) | about 13 years ago | (#2213410)

AtheOS is a wonderful hobbyist OS with a small team working on it over the Internet. Of course, the OS we all know and love was once in a similar position. Do you see some of those same developers, disenchanted with the growing popularity of Linux, moving over to AtheOS and similar projects, with the eventual goal of paralleling the success of Linux and acheiving World Domination?

Atheos is dying (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213470)

Let's look at the numbers. There are ~250,000,000 people in the U.S., and ~2,200,000,000 copies of Windows -- giving them a market penetration of ~ 1100%. For Atheos, the numbers are more like 0.00003%. Obviously people are staying away from this "Toy OS" in droves. The only reasonable conclusion one can draw is that Atheos needs more utilities to support making love to female zebras in heat.

Re:early linux parallels (1)

Vanders (110092) | about 13 years ago | (#2213649)

Well, thats why I'm developing as much as I can for AtheOS at the moment, and why I think AtheOS has a bright future.

I currently run KDE2 at home, but I wouldn't ever expect someone less technical to install & administer Linux. Its also fragmented and not so easy to deal with the user interface, so I think AtheOS, being Open Source and targeted at the desktop, is going to be a great replacement for Linux on the desktop. Really.

Not only that, but AtheOS is pretty much uncharted territory, and I like that about it too ;)

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Re:I love to... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213566)

Haha! Way to go!
Fuck the crappy POS known as "slashcode"!
And by the way: when the hell is slashcode going to be released as open source?

Ideal applications (2, Redundant)

Flavio (12072) | about 13 years ago | (#2213424)

Who would you recommend Atheos to?

In other words, where could Atheos be a better choice than other open source OSs?

Thanks!

Flavio

License Freedom? (1)

jmallett (189882) | about 13 years ago | (#2213425)

You mention the GPL is free, and AtheOS is GPL'd, and while I will forego a rant about nonfree GPL and such, it is important to mention that Kurt (the Theo deRaadt of the GPL world) has often threatened to make AtheOS closed source, and keeps full control over the entire OS (where possible).

Re:License Freedom? (2)

11223 (201561) | about 13 years ago | (#2213473)

Care to support this assertation at all?

Warning - grammar nazi post (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213748)

No, I'm not *the* GN, but m-w.com has no such word "assertation". I think you meant to say accusation.

Re:License Freedom? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213498)

Kurt (the Theo deRaadt of the GPL world) has often threatened to make AtheOS closed source

So what if he does? He can certainly move future AtheOS development into closed source, but he cannot retract the GPLed code already out there. If he ever does jump ship from the OSS community, you can just wish him well, take the most recently released gpled version of atheos, and continue the OSS development of atheos as an independent community-devleoped fork. What's so bad about that? He's donated you all this free-as-in-speech code already; he's most likely going to continue to donate you much more in the future. Be grateful for that and let the man do what he likes.

Can't retract code? (1)

Win-Developer (316016) | about 13 years ago | (#2213551)

Maybe I don't understand the GPL well enough, but why can't someone retract GPL'ed code? If this lisence protects the authors, why can't they just say "Hey, I don't want this out there anymore".

That's pretty lame if that's the case. That's akin to being in a street gang "4 life" until death.

I find that logic flawed, could someone explain that to me without:

1. Flaming me because of my name.

2. Getting upset...I'd just like an honest reason.

What I don't get is, athough it seems as though it might be a good idea to publish under GPL(GO OPEN SOURCE), but if you desire to close up the source, get a huge offer and sell it, you have to keep stuff out there that you've GPL'ed hence reducing any monetary value your software had to nothing. Someone explain this please...

Re:Can't retract code? (1)

jmallett (189882) | about 13 years ago | (#2213582)

When you said 'GPL(GO OPEN SOURCE)' I immediately decided to not give you a real answer. I will just advise you (re: GPL(GO OPEN SOURCE) to read the 'Open Source' guidelines, and the GPL).

Okay, decided to give you a real answer anyway: You can't make retroactive license changes when you have already licensed a person (i.e. everyone who uses your code or recieves your code, under the GPL) under another. Much like how one party can't make a change to a legally binding contract. He can, however, relicense old versions, and not make GPL'd old versions available, any longer, as long as he is the sole owner of the code (though RMS would like to do away with code ownership).

To put it simply. (2)

mindstrm (20013) | about 13 years ago | (#2213594)

Let's say I download a copy of AtheOS. It is licensed to me under the GPL.

Let's say a year later Kurt closes it, and no longer distributes it under the GPL. He no longer has to distribute it under GPL, of course.

However, that doesn't at all change the fact that I have a copy, licensed to me under the GPL, and all that implies. I can distribute it myself under the GPL, etc.

GPL is not designed so people can 'close up the code, revoke everything else out there, and start charging for it' might be another way to put it.

If you are really concerned about the monetary value of your code, because you think you can sell it, and you think having a closed license is paramount to getting a sale, then you probably shouldn't publish it under GPL.

Re:Can't retract code? (2)

jovlinger (55075) | about 13 years ago | (#2213612)

Say I release versions 1,2,3, and 4 of my Program under the GPL. These versions, by being "released under the GPL", are exactly what you say : GPL 4Life.

I am under no obligation of releasing version 5 under the GPL. I can also re-release versions 1 - 4 under someother licence. For example, I can sell them as closed source to M$. However, these actions in no way invalidate the licence on the existing released code. And only I can take these actions.

You on the other hand, are free and encouraged to build on my GPLed code, but if you do so, it MUST be released under the GPL 4Life as well. You have no rights to resell/relicence your _derivative_ work. ( I guess I could sell/transfer these rights to you tho, once again, without invalidating the licence on already released code).

Re:Can't retract code? (0)

buttfucker2000 (240799) | about 13 years ago | (#2213625)

Trying to make sense of open source is like trying to understand Mormons, or Scientologists. They don't need rational explanations for their dogmas, that's why they're dogmas.

It'll all become very clear once you drink the kool-aid, devote your life to Stallman, etc.

Re:Can't retract code? (1)

be-fan (61476) | about 13 years ago | (#2213751)

There's a reason you can't take back the GPL license on previously released code. Say, for example, you release something under the GPL. Then an OSS project incorporates some of your code. Then you could relicense it under something else, then tell the OSS project to either stop using your code, or sue them for license infringement. What the GPL does is it prevents that from happening. With the GPL, the same case would result in the OSS project keeping the old code, but not being able to get access to any of the new code that exists under the closed license.

ahhh, last night (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213426)

while I was in bed jerking off to the sounds of slashdot.mp3 I heard a voice in the distance, the sound of Natalie Portman's voice rang true. The silhouette of her tender curves, caressing the plasma screen with her gentle fingertips...

then I slammed my cock into Ass ! Fcuked ya Bitch!

Stamped DeCSS code on her ass for good measure !

Natalie Pr0tman has a sweet ass that I like to fuck!

Use linux drivers? Use M$ drivers? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213434)

Are you thinking about a compatibility layer in there to make it easy to port linux drivers to your OS? Or maybe even emulate the NT/W2K I/O Subsystem and use the M$ driver base? Wouldn't it be cool for me to bring up that graphical interface of yours on my NVIDIA GeForce 2, play whatever startup jingle you have in mind on my SB!Live and print a hardcopy using that cheap Windows GDI Printer I don't really own :-) even though nobody ever had to program a line of driver code for AtheOS?

Building a Community (1)

XBL (305578) | about 13 years ago | (#2213437)

From what I have read, you have built the entire OS and its components all by yourself.

Where would you be if you had a tight group of good developers? Do you plan on persuing this open-source development ideal of this community?

Also, I have noticed that you have been shying away from BeOS comparisons. I think that you should attempt to lure existing BeOS users to your OS by doing these comparisons, especially with technical details like the APIs and file system.

Also, I don't like the name. I think it should be BeOS II ;-) Be sure can't sure you about it now.

Re:Building a Community (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213452)

> Where would you be if you had a tight group of
> good developers?

Why do you assume more would be done? Linus got pretty far by himself...

Developers (3, Insightful)

Adelvillar (96720) | about 13 years ago | (#2213439)

Now that many developers coding for the BeOS were left hung to dry, do you have recived support from them?

slashdotted quicker than... (1)

TechnoVooDooDaddy (470187) | about 13 years ago | (#2213441)

Re:slashdotted quicker than... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213501)

Google doesn't cache the images silly...

Re:slashdotted quicker than... (1)

sirinek (41507) | about 13 years ago | (#2213632)

Oh yeah that does a hell of a lot of good. Google still tries to pull the actual screenshots from the atheos.cx website.


Don't mod this up.

Re:slashdotted quicker than... (1)

drodver (410899) | about 13 years ago | (#2213660)

That's great but the images load from atheos.cx so it won't get you far.

Object Desktop (1)

Chainsaw (2302) | about 13 years ago | (#2213442)

Do you plan to implement a powerful object-oriented desktop model similar to OS/2 (and possibly MacOS) where almost anything is configurable, or adapt a simple model like Windows, BeOS and Gnome?

Influences (2)

Pope Slackman (13727) | about 13 years ago | (#2213446)

The AtheOS UI strikes me as a bit Amiga-ish.

Was the Amiga UI an influence or inspiration for the design of the AtheOS UI?
And, if so, are there any other aspects of the Amiga platform that influenced your design?

C-X C-S
Keep up the good work!

Re:Influences (1)

terrabit (50647) | about 13 years ago | (#2213499)

Q: The GUI look very Amigaish, is it an AmigaOS clone?

A: No. In the beginning it was actualy ment to be one, but this days there is nothing resembling the AmigaOS in AtheOS other than the window-borders. This seems to be rather hard for the Amiga-community to grasp though. They still think AtheOS is an Amiga clone :) Hey the Window borders look like on my Amiga! It must be an Amiga clone Right? I find it rather amusing to see that the Amiga-hord think that the single-most important property of an OS is the window-borders :)

From the AtheOS FAQ, which seems to be slashdotted.

Re:Influences (1)

Pope Slackman (13727) | about 13 years ago | (#2213508)

Thanks. I wasn't able to get to the site to read the FAQ, so I shot in the dark.
Someone nuke my previous comment.

Re:Influences (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213502)

In the AtheOS FAQ it mentions that originally AtheOS was supposed to be an Amiga clone.

That was abondoned a long time ago, but the Amiga GUI has never really been replaced.

silly tiny random question (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213455)

Do you have any thoughts in particular on GNUStep and/or it being ported to AtheOS? I haven't been paying much attention to AtheOS-- do you *invite* the idea of having a variety of development platforms for your OS, or are you thinking of backward compatibility as something a bit dangerous (because people just port shoddy pre-written crap rather than making something new and clean..)

( I wish i had something more insightful or meaningful to say but i don't. I would love to try out AtheOS if i can get my hands on a x86 box at some point, but have not managed to do this yet. Oh well .. sorry to bother :) )

Re:silly tiny random question (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213664)

Anyone asking questions about "compatibility layers" for things like Qt/GTK+/Win32/OpenTracker etc. etc. should go over the atheos-developer mailing lists and check some of the flamewars on the topic that have been had there. Basically, the answer is "no".

cached! (2, Funny)

pjgunst (452345) | about 13 years ago | (#2213487)

Never complain about a site being slashdotted as long as we have google...

Atheos homepage [google.com]

the FAQ [google.com]

Atheos links [google.com]

Screenshots are here [google.com]

the parrots [google.com]

Re:cached! (2)

tinla (120858) | about 13 years ago | (#2213555)


The google cached pages that pjgunst (and others) are linking to are not the same as the pages at atheos.cx.

The site has been redesigned and there seems to be substantially more content than the cached versions.

Sorry karma hunters.

Wow, thanks! (1)

KupekKupoppo (266229) | about 13 years ago | (#2213563)

Taking a look at the screenshots page, I can say I'm amazed! I mean, true 100% alpha transparency, it looks just like an image placeholder in my web browser.

Or maybe GOOGLE DOESN'T CACHE IMAGES, #%!%!%$^!

-k.

Re:cached! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213599)

And when google is slashdotted?
Or is it my dodgy internet connection?

yaos... (1)

isudoru (452928) | about 13 years ago | (#2213494)

but will there ever be a really strong competitor against windows, stronger than linux is... one that's both opensource and has a integrated GUI. one that can handle the beginners kind of demands and still can handle the demands of others.
One that can run all the damn binary forms so you aren't stuck with emulation layers and so on.

(offtopic:)
a standardization of binary files probably would make applications more platform independent, but what do I know, I'm just a 15 year old nerd :)

Re:yaos... (0)

buttfucker2000 (240799) | about 13 years ago | (#2213565)

a standardization of binary files probably would make applications more platform independent, but what do I know, I'm just a 15 year old nerd :)

We got that. It's called .NET common language runtimes. Everybody can either get in line, implement a VM and succeed, or continue making non-standard shitty hobby OS's which need their own binaries and fail.

Re:yaos... (2)

Lethyos (408045) | about 13 years ago | (#2213609)

One that can run all the damn binary forms so you aren't stuck with emulation layers and so on.

Running binaries from other platforms not native to your own is emulation. You're platform A pretending to be platform B (no pun ;), for the purpose of running code from platform B without changing that code.

a standardization of binary files probably would make applications more platform independent,

A few such standardized formats are ELF (Executable & Linking Format), AOUT, and JAVA. The last of these, with the proper VM, does make applications more platform independent (sort of :).

but what do I know, I'm just a 15 year old nerd :)

Keep learning! :)

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Yours truly,

ALHAJI ADAMU SHAGARI.

Performance data (2)

Flavio (12072) | about 13 years ago | (#2213497)

I've never used AtheOS and before giving it a try I'd like to see information regarding its hardware requirements and performance. For example, how does AtheOS perform as a web/ftp/samba/db server, considering it supports multithreading and SMP?

Do you have any numbers to show us?

Thanks.

Flavio

OO emphasis and other things (2, Interesting)

dmelomed (148666) | about 13 years ago | (#2213503)

Why such emphasis on OO paradigm? While building the system, did you have trouble bending some things around OO model (i.e. could some things be only done in straight C)? Do you think many developers will be turned off because objectOriented style of variable and function naming was used in the C parts of the source (as I noticed)? Finally, why do you want this to be a primarily desktop OS? What do you think of the current desktop environment offerings in *nix world?

Re:OO emphasis and other things (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213615)

GUI interface creation is, more or less, the exact problem set that object-oriented programming was invented for. Ever heard of smalltalk? What about Xerox PARC?

Really, are there *any* GUI APIs that don't at least implicitly subscribe to a large amount of the assumptions of object-oriented design? Even those APIs that are in straight C (GTK+, the classic Mac OS API) feel very oo in nature and can be legitimately called object-oriented design even though, yeh, they lack the concept of polymorphic types. (Well, OK, *maybe* GLUT. But i wouldn't say so.)

Has anyone attempted to port X to AtheOS? (2, Interesting)

J. J. Ramsey (658) | about 13 years ago | (#2213512)

I know AtheOS has its own GUI, but I imagine that have X on board would make porting most Unix apps easier. Has anyone attempted such a thing?

Re:Has anyone attempted to port X to AtheOS? (1)

nick-less (307628) | about 13 years ago | (#2213743)


I know AtheOS has its own GUI, but I imagine that have X on board would make porting most Unix apps easier


Why would one do this, we have Linux and BSD to run X Apps very well.
I like the attempt of AtheOS, where "one" Person controls the direction where the gui is going. This probably keeps the Userinterface more consitent that X is.

Dont get me wrong, X is fine, but quite oversized and to "flexible" for the masses...

Re:Has anyone attempted to port X to AtheOS? (2)

be-fan (61476) | about 13 years ago | (#2213777)

I don't know how hard that would be. The BeOS and AtheOS APIs have a lot in common, and there is a BeOS X server. Plus, AtheOS has some networking features that BeOS doesn't, and porting Wine and X to AtheOS would probably be quite easy.

Another great OS with cool screen shots (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213527)

AnuOS [goatse.cx] features a very simple, easy to use interface and familiar metaphors to most Slashdot users (especially CmndrTaco). Check out these two screen shots (Login Screen [goatse.cx] , User Profile [goatse.cx] ). It's a quick download, and I recommend everyone try it out if AtheOS just isn't right for you (which it probably isn't because it's not Linux, right).

AtheOS and GPL (5, Interesting)

Midnight Ryder (116189) | about 13 years ago | (#2213531)

Greetings...


Another poster mentioned the idea that you were considering moving AtheOS to a different license. Is that the case?


Secondly, if you are considering putting it under a different license, why? And, why did you select GPL licensing for AtheOS as opposed to a number of different licensing choices out there? (Reguardless of if you are or aren't moving AtheOS from a GPL license.)

PPC (4, Interesting)

mcc (14761) | about 13 years ago | (#2213545)

Some minor questions.

Do you consider it likely that at some point in the near future AtheOS will develop a PPC port?

I realize that the AtheOS developers are very busy with the hard work they are doing and that there is no good reason for them to expend effort on a PPC port. However i was wondering if you think that there is enough interest among extant developers familiar with the ppc/chrp/macintosh platform that someone might feel like cobbling together a port.

That being said, i was checking and trying to figure out: does AtheOS have some kind of flexible arbitrary-server auto-upgrade "package"-style system along the lines of the debian apt-get? if not, are there plans to implement one, or perhaps port apt-get and dselect to atheos?

Please excuse my ignorance.

- mcc
(I am quite curious about AtheOS, and have been meaning for some time to try to check it out (well, or at least check out the screenshots and read the API documentation, since as implied above i do not personally have an x86 machine on which to test the OS..)-- i was thinking about looking over the atheos webpage yesterday morning, actually. I'm looking forward to learning more about this OS in the future.. if only i knew more now, maybe i'd have some better questions :) :shrugs: oh well. thanks.)

Remote Access (2)

Delirium Tremens (214596) | about 13 years ago | (#2213549)

Since you don't support text-mode console without a full GUI, what are your plans to enable remote logging access to an AtheOS box through Unix-like facilities like telnet, ssh or X-Terminals?

Re:Remote Access (1)

tconnors (91126) | about 13 years ago | (#2213604)

Since you don't support text-mode console without a full GUI, what are your plans to enable remote logging access to an AtheOS box through Unix-like facilities like telnet, ssh or X-Terminals?

It still has a terminal emulator - so presumably ssh etc should work as normal - as long as a sshd server exists!

Course, I can't actually read the site, 'cause their swerver is a bit /.ed.

TimC.

Re:Remote Access (1)

dinivin (444905) | about 13 years ago | (#2213619)


It comes with a telnet daemon and you can download an OpenSSH server (and client) for the Operating System. Just because he does plan on supporting a text-mode console doesn't mean Atheos can't have a Terminal :-)

Dinivin

Re:Remote Access (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213696)

Already done me old chuck. Easy steps for remote logins using SSH on AtheOS:

Install AtheOS.
Download & untar the ssh package into /usr
Run /system/config/find_packages.sh
Run exec bash -login to restart bash
Configure ssh (I believe the files are in /usr/ssh/etc/ or something similiar)
Reboot, or run sshd
Login.

The same is true for ftpd or telnetd. Only problem is, logins via. telnet are not authenticated at the moment, so you're auto-logged in as root. Not that that matters, as AtheOS doesn't worry too much about file permisions at the moment either. ;)

how long (2, Interesting)

Lord Omlette (124579) | about 13 years ago | (#2213556)

do you think it'll be before a partition can be installed painlessly side by side Windows? Should be the quickest way to gain mass adoption, right?

Limiting the scope of AtheOS (4, Insightful)

brennan73 (94035) | about 13 years ago | (#2213558)

It seems to me that it'll be extremely difficult for AtheOS (or any new OS, really) to do everything well; even Linux, which is pretty widely used, isn't a be-all, end-all solution yet (and maybe never will be, or never should be).

So have you considered limiting the scope of AtheOS (possibly severely), and aiming at doing a relatively few things exceptionally well? Here I'm thinking of BeOS, which was usually promoted as a "multimedia OS." It seems to me that this might be a way for alternative OSes now and in the future to stake out some territory: do a few things very very effectively rather than trying to be all things to all people.

Of course, if you're doing this as a fun/interesting thing, you may not care as much about a niche or widespread acceptance. But, still.

-brennan

CD-Rom support (4, Interesting)

timothy (36799) | about 13 years ago | (#2213561)

Kurt:

I much prefer to install software (at least anything over several megs) with a CD than over the net, and there are a lot of old documents that I have converted to CD for storage. I wouldn't want to buy a machine without a CD-ROM drive :)

Is bootable (or other) CD-ROM support planned? Perhaps many people would be able to sample AtheOS easier if they could (for instance) order a CD from Cheapbytes and install it locally, pass to a friend etc.

Considering the progress on the other aspects of the system, how important do you think this is, or are there technical difficulties (other than time) in getting CD-ROM support to work?

Best,

timothy

creature? (1)

ethereal (13958) | about 13 years ago | (#2213562)

Well, I'd rather ask him about his creation, AtheOS, since I would think that would be more "news for nerds"-ish, but I'll give the creature angle a try:

So, Kurt: what's up with your creature? Did you find him while vacationing at the Black Lagoon, or was he wandering lost and far from home and you took him in? And - I have a followup question: does he really look better with the 3D glasses on?

GUI lib (why custom?) (2)

johnjones (14274) | about 13 years ago | (#2213578)

why have you implemeted a custom GUI lib ?

as aposed to implemeting a backend for GTK/QT/X lib which would mean alot more GUI software

regards

john jones

Installation Procedure (1)

joestump98 (320730) | about 13 years ago | (#2213584)

Being of a strong *nix background I didn't have many troubles getting AtheOS installed. But, the fact that the install process is done entirely from a bash prompt it would be quite cumbersome for the average newbie (or even intermidiate *nix geek). Are there any plans to make a more user friendly installation?

Are you happy ... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213603)

about not having some bearded weirdo running after you, crying: 'It's GNU/Atheos, it's GNU/Atheos!'?

b.

I can't access the site... (1)

Linux Freak (18608) | about 13 years ago | (#2213626)

...I've been tricked by Slashdot comments so often, I added a *.cx rule to my firewall. ;-)

Why a completely new OS? (1)

mr_goodwin (220609) | about 13 years ago | (#2213635)

Why not just modify an existing free OS?


I can see why a free OS not tied to X would be a good thing, but surely that could be done on top of the work already done on Linux / Hurd etc. Why reinvent the wheel?

Memory restrictions (1)

JDizzy (85499) | about 13 years ago | (#2213641)

As a former BeOS tech support person, I have had more than one instance of a power-user complain about memory usage in BeOS. From what I can see of AthOS, it is not much different. The issues here is when the power user assumes that the more memory, the better.... when in fact, the more memory, the longer it takes to boot, if at all. This item has been covered before. However, Can I please have your explanation, as a kernel hacker, as to why this is a problem in both BeOS, and AtheOS. Also, do you have any plans to resolve this via some ace card you have held back. Obviously FreeBSD, or even Linux do not have any such restriction but we are comparing apples to oranges. :)

Thanks in Advance.

Re:Memory restrictions (1)

dinivin (444905) | about 13 years ago | (#2213770)

I just went from 196 Megs of RAM to 640 Megs of RAM in my machine (which has both Atheos and BeOS installed) and never noticed a slow down when booting.

Since you said this item has been covered before can you point us in the direction of info about this?

Dinivin

Killer app? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2213642)

Do you have plans to develop, or prompt the development of, an application that would make people want to have AtheOS on their hard drives alongside other operating systems? This would lead to more developers starting to work on AtheOS, and eventually, with enough basic apps, some people completely moving to AtheOS.

Also, why oh why did you choose the .cx domain for the website? The image that that domain conjures up at least in me is not exactly pretty. :^)

[BTW, I think it is exceedingly cool that people still want to create new operating systems from scratch, even though there already are several very good alternatives around.]

Other processors (1)

JDizzy (85499) | about 13 years ago | (#2213676)

I asume you started AtheOS to learn, and expand your understanding of the Intel OP codes, and the various mechanisms inside the Pentium class chips. Have you begun to hack a version of your kernel to other processors, and/or have you started the process of study on these other processors in the wild? I'm sure the RISC folks would like to have new toys to play with in their war chest. On that note, have you received any hardware donations, and if not would you be willing to accept second hand risc machines for your expanded study?

Design an OS with C++ (5, Interesting)

JWhitlock (201845) | about 13 years ago | (#2213713)

According to Bjarne Stroustrup, the core application domain for C++ is systems programming. Having created an OS in C++, what would you say are C++ strengths and weaknesses for your needs? Has the OS evolved along with the evolving standard (the STL, templates, the new type casts, etc.), or have you stuck with the C++ that was around when you started? What features do you depend on, and which do you avoid like the plague? And, of course, if you did it today, would you use another language or make different language choices?

Server Version of the OS (1)

HowIsMyDriving? (142335) | about 13 years ago | (#2213727)

I have noticed that AtheOS is aimed twards the desktop market, but yet the underlying code might make a good server. Have you ever though about making a server version?

Two questions (2, Interesting)

gabbarsingh (207183) | about 13 years ago | (#2213747)

Kurt,

I'm sure you developed AtheOS in your free time and then let me ask you what is your day job? How do you find balance between the two especially when you are in that coding bubble that everything seems to be coming together well.

Secondly, (this may be for all /. ers as well), do you see yourself doing AtheOS development fulltime? If yes, then how do you foresee this transformation? In fact, I'm sure there are many people here who once worked for a big/medium company but were good at a certain thing and went solo after a while. I'm curious to find out their journies as well.

You're doing a great job! Good luck and keep it up!

Encouraging development (1)

noz (253073) | about 13 years ago | (#2213778)

As development of AtheOS reaches nearer your initial goals for the system, and the userbase increases in size, what is your strategy to attract developers to your platform (or write compatible applications)?

Some (okay many) people consider XWindows a pain to program, Windows is different again, and other small (non-X) GUIs such as QNX's Photon are also different APIs, a new GUI can only clutter and confuse?

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