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Extreme Telecommuting

timothy posted about 13 years ago | from the this-ain't-elbonia dept.

News 370

wiredog writes: "The Washington Post has an article about a company in Chantilly Virginia, most of whose programmers telecommute from Novosibirsk, Russia." Anyone out there in a similarly distant job?

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fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226366)


Telecommute from Toronto, Canada? (2)

BigBlockMopar (191202) | about 13 years ago | (#2226384)

Anyone out there in a similarly distant job?

No, but I'm willing! []

Re:Telecommute from Toronto, Canada? (2)

Ron Harwood (136613) | about 13 years ago | (#2226448)

Me and you both. Well... I'm in Hamilton (an hour outside of Toronto)... and I'm working in Toronto... but I'd rather telecommute - anywhere.

frost pist (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226368)

it hurts and stuff.

First (-1, Offtopic)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | about 13 years ago | (#2226369)

Post from Russia

Well, yeah... (2, Funny)

Mumble01 (5809) | about 13 years ago | (#2226371)

Sure. I show up to work faithfully every day but my mind is always a million miles away...

Are you in my office? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226428)

Because the people I work with are from other planets.

Posting anonymously for a reason ;)

sp (-1, Offtopic)

robsmama (416178) | about 13 years ago | (#2226373)

second post

Re:sp (-1, Offtopic)

robsmama (416178) | about 13 years ago | (#2226411)


Does having an out of body experience count? (2, Funny)

MagikSlinger (259969) | about 13 years ago | (#2226375)

My body may be physically here, but my mind is a million miles away, so I guess that's a pretty far telecommute, ain't it?

Re:Does having an out of body experience count? (2)

Sir_Real (179104) | about 13 years ago | (#2226602)

To the moderator who modded this post down... Quit wasting your mod points by being an ass... His post was at 1:50, the post that you believed he copied was at 1:49... Giving you the benefit of the doubt that his post was submitted at 1:50:59 and the orignal post was at 1:49:00, it's still less than TWO FREAKING MINUTES!!!

Da! (1)

jack deadmeat (515264) | about 13 years ago | (#2226376)

Da, torsavich.

Loser (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226473)

You probably mean something like äà, òîâàðèù but you can't type it, am I mistaken?

indiana to cincinnati/orlando (1)

foo(foo(foo(bar))) (263786) | about 13 years ago | (#2226377)

We have quite a large staff that telecommutes from India to locations in cincinnati and orlando.

too bad I can't go into more detail :)

Re:indiana to cincinnati/orlando (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226437)

you're company sucks.

India? Indiana? (2)

Vuarnet (207505) | about 13 years ago | (#2226492)

So which one is it?

One's a liiiitle bit farther away from Cincinnati and Orlando than the other. Of course, with the power of the Internet, I suppose it makes no difference if you're in India or in Indiana.

wow.... (1)

jeffy124 (453342) | about 13 years ago | (#2226381)

A thousand a month. how so little amount here (DC area) goes so short while halfway around the world it's considered being rich and wealthy.

Re:wow.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226525)

I wouldn't be so sure about that. It doesn't sound to me like they're doing all that great. They work almost 12 hour days, don't get the government mandated number of days off per year, and live in a country run by the mob. Does being able to live on $1000 still sound appealing?

Re:wow.... (1)

jeffy124 (453342) | about 13 years ago | (#2226596)

the article made reference to how that salary between (both make 1000/month) is considered to be the high end of the middle class in that part of Russia.

Space men (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226387)

I would think the astronauts count as 'extreme telecommuters'. After all, it is their job to go live up in space for months on end (ISS astronauts anyways).

my poop telecommutes (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226399)

@@@@@@@ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@
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@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ @@@
@@@@@@@ @@@@
@@@@@ @@@@@@
@@@@@@ @@@
@@@@@ @@@
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Re:my poop telecommutes (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226489)

shut up you stupid ascii spork wannabe. your ascii art sucks.

no, but would love to... (1)

__soup_dragon__ (112372) | about 13 years ago | (#2226402)

i can't read the article, it appears to be slashed at the moment, but i assume this is working from a faraway location... where can you get them telecommuting jobs? i am in portugal at the moment.



Taking advantage of the developers (4, Insightful)

NineNine (235196) | about 13 years ago | (#2226404)

The only reason this company is doing it is because they can pay the Russians the equivalent of minimum wage. ($1000/month /160 hours = $6.25/hour if they only work 40 hours/week!). There's nothign admirable about this company.

Re:Taking advantage of the developers (2)

jcr (53032) | about 13 years ago | (#2226469)

Now, wait a minute. Sure, the guys in VA are saving a shitload of money, and why shouldn't they?

This is a *voluntary* transaction. If the guys they hire could get a better rate, nobody has a gun to their heads to prevent them from changing jobs.

Now, the free market being what it is, I'm rather intrigued with the idea of setting up shop in Novosibirsk, and hiring the star performers away from Plesk. Let the low-rent bodyshop sort them out, I'll cherry pick their talent.


Re:Taking advantage of the developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226474)

Yep, Also I am sick of companies going off shore and fucking it up for american (not white, i mean ALL US residients) programmers that are looking for jobs. These companies blow..

Re:Taking advantage of the developers (2)

Alien54 (180860) | about 13 years ago | (#2226495)

The only reason this company is doing it is because they can pay the Russians the equivalent of minimum wage. ($1000/month /160 hours = $6.25/hour if they only work 40 hours/week!). There's nothign admirable about this company.

I know of a number of educational software houses that do the same thing, subcontract to developers in the Ukraine.

On the other hand, The more they are addicted to the American Life Style, the more trouble they will make for big corporations and governments where they live.

- - -
Radio Free Nation []
an alternative news site based on Slash Code
"If You have a Story, We have a Soap Box"

Oh hogwash (3, Insightful)

FallLine (12211) | about 13 years ago | (#2226501)

Plesk is providing consumers with what they want and, perhaps most importantly, very solid jobs in a country that rife with corruption, poverty, and starvation. Those kinds of wages put each one of those 25 year old kids into the top economic brackets in their region. It'd be like handing a 25 year old kid here 150k a year salary. Anyways, Russia needs MORE jobs like that, not less.

Save your outrage for someone else.

Re:Oh hogwash (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226515)

Hey buddy,
Fuck Russia. What about the US? Those reds can eat cabbage soup all fucking day for all i care.

Hmmm (2)

FallLine (12211) | about 13 years ago | (#2226556)

Fuck Russia. What about the US? Those reds can eat cabbage soup all fucking day for all i care.
Can you say Enlightened Self-Interest? Two reasons. First, WE need quality software. In case you haven't noticed, there is a real lack of it in this country. Second, Russia still has nuclear and chemical arsenals, from a national security point of view, we're better off with them in reasonable economic condition than in the condition they're currently in, where their military is in complete disarray, weapons are for sale to the highest bidder, etc.

Re:Taking advantage of the developers (2, Interesting)

Johnny5000 (451029) | about 13 years ago | (#2226510)

This brings up an interesting point. Are they working in Russia, or are they working in the US? So are they subject to Russian labor law, or American? Could they legally be paid under US min wage this way? While they're physically located in Russia, by telecommuting to the US, it isnt *that* different from someone who crosses a border physically each day to go to work.


Re:Taking advantage of the developers (1)

tbone1 (309237) | about 13 years ago | (#2226511)

Hey, $6.25 an hour in Russia is probably big money and they're probably happy to get it. As far as I know, no one is holding a gun to these programmers' heads. (Then again, Russia does have a history of that sort of things.)

One of the ugliest things in the world is when a country is starting to get rich. (Not mine, I got it from P.J. O'Rourke's new book.)

Re:Taking advantage of the developers (1)

huge (52607) | about 13 years ago | (#2226544)

Well, It's not that bad if your monthly rent is around $15, and for $10 you can buy enough vodka for whole month.

Rates should not be compared to your local pay rates, but to the russian ones.

Re:Taking advantage of the developers (1)

Beinoni (206765) | about 13 years ago | (#2226548)

Since coding keeps the means of production in the hand of the worker (heehee), and doesn't need to be done in physical proximity to the client (as this company, for one, demonstrates), the talent market for coders should expand to include the entire world, wherever the coders are. When that happens, companies in the US will have to compete for talented coders in Siberia and elsewhere the same way they do here, by offering competetive salaries. The only reason this company can get away with paying Russian wages is that they don't have adequate American competition yet.

Re:Taking advantage of the developers (1)

TresTresMondoMod (319320) | about 13 years ago | (#2226563)

This is really quite outstanding. Finally existing mechanisms are being utilized that will allow programming resources to be obtained at rate consistent whith their worth, rather than at the ridiculous inflated rates that have become so common. The only bad I can see to come out of this will be a move toward unionization by those who care nothing about world progress.

Re:Taking advantage of the developers (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226593)

right on... the genius of this company is to underbid (or underprice)
an american company that has to pay american wages to people who live here
and try to raise a family by paying american expenses. this shit happend to
every industry that is now wiped our due to unfair competition from countries
where workers make a year what an american worker makes a day... $1000 a month is
a very high wage for russia, where most tech workers make $200 a month, so it natural
that they get the brightest kids working for them, but don't forget that it costs almoust
nothing to live there for them. Now think about you rent, you college loans, you food bill
and wake up to the possibility that your next job might be paying here the same rate they make
there... no BMW for you this time... With all the H1B visas and off-shore programming I would
be surprised if our profession is going to provide us with a decent livable income in years to come...

Amen! (2)

fmaxwell (249001) | about 13 years ago | (#2226604)

It's companies like the one mentioned in the article that make me think that we need more, not fewer, labor laws. There is something wrong when a "U.S. company" can actively discriminate against Americans in its hiring practices (how many of those jobs were offered to U.S. citizens?) while circumventing OSHA, FLSA, and other labor regulations. The U.S. needs to make U.S. firms hire U.S. workers or pay a stiff penalty so that there is no monetary incentive to engage in the practice described in the article.

How would you like to go to a job interview and be told "you have to work 55 hours per week for $12,000 per year or we'll give this job to some guy in Kiev"? Sure, it's annoying if it occurs once, but what happens if the majority of high-tech firms start doing this to "remain competitive"?

Re:Taking advantage of the developers (2)

Vuarnet (207505) | about 13 years ago | (#2226606)

Actually, when you come to think about it, it may not be as evil and greedy as it sounds. The article says that they're in the higher-level range of the middle class. Considering how bureocratic they say Russia is, would they be happier earning more money? More taxes, bribery, corruption, etc. (My apologies to any fellow Russian /. readers... this is what I've read about in the news)

And I know it sounds like a trollish comment, but you can't say a salary is too low or too high unless you consider the circumstances and the environment around it.

For instance, programmers here in Mexico earn about... i dunno, maybe one third of the salary paid to same-level programmers in the US, but the cost-of-living is considerably lower here. So you may get paid less, but you spend less money, too.

Although I wouldn't mind receiving a higher salary so I could get me a better 'puter!

Re:Taking advantage of the developers (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226611)

How the fuck is this insightful. BAHAHA! What fucking morons. ROFL.

If I read Slashdot from home (1)

SpanishInquisition (127269) | about 13 years ago | (#2226405)

Is it considered telecommuting?

no but .... (1)

beanerspace (443710) | about 13 years ago | (#2226406)

... as an almost lifetime resident of the D.C. (we're not going to mention that NYC thing anymore !-) ... I find the article encouraging, but also ironic.

Considering how bad traffic is in this region of the country, and how high-tech many of the jobs are, many employers in the area still balk at the thought of telecommuting.

Perhaps the image of employees leaning back in their ergo seats in sweats and undies writing important code is just too much ... but it's probably an old Gov't. mentality that employees need to be within range of the manager's to be effective.

Re:no but .... (2)

jeffy124 (453342) | about 13 years ago | (#2226562)

i too, have to deal with dc area traffic. it's beyond nuts out there sometimes. I typically am going 70 on the 55mph speed limit B/W Parkway, and a good number of people are still passing me.

ok, back on topic-
i once heard a company denied people telecommuting because the lawyers were scared if say the person's home desk broke or something, they would be liable. The company insurance didnt cover people doing work at home. BS if you ask me. If someone wants to do work at home, they should be permitted to do so and the employer insurance should allow a clause allowing someone to telecommute.

Interesting Business model (1)

nairnr (314138) | about 13 years ago | (#2226408)

It is interesting to see tele-commuting playing such a large role. I am not sure that I have ever seen a business rely on remote people to such a large degree. The only concern I would have -- what happens when the network goes down. This is not a big stretch... I suppose if they were using something CVS like where they develop locally and commit changes for all to poke and prod at.

I telecommute every so often, but I like coming into the office, without it, some of the interaction that defines a company can't happen. Group meetings must be a lot of fun.

Imagine... (1)

mcelli (518034) | about 13 years ago | (#2226413)

I imagine a Nike-style sweat shop of Computer Programmers "telecomuting" for some multi-national American firm.

I guess it would clear up the whole H1-B visa issue quite nicely. Ain't globalization and corporatism grand!

more extreme telecommuting (1)

The_Messenger (110966) | about 13 years ago | (#2226422)

That reminds me of something from The Cuckoo's Egg, where a programmer in Russia was telecommuting to some computers run by a defense contractor in the same area of Virginia. :-)

Well (0, Offtopic)

Ex Machina (10710) | about 13 years ago | (#2226423)

I appears that some crapflooder commute from the Christmas Islands [] !

And here I thought... (1)

Mzilikazi (115009) | about 13 years ago | (#2226427)

...that Akademgorodok was just a city in Alpha Centauri when playing the University faction. ;)

Some of them are staffed by senior scientists
from Novosibirsk's Akademgorodok, an academic community established by Nikita Khrushchev in the
1960s to promote the growth of Soviet science.

Re:And here I thought... (1)

dghcasp (459766) | about 13 years ago | (#2226484)

[...] staffed by senior scientists from Novosibirsk's Akademgorodok [...]

Novo (Noviiy) + Sibirsk = New + Siberia

Akadem (Akademiiy) + Gorod = Academic + Town

So, New Siberia's Academic Town

Gotta love state controlled naming. If only we had that in the west, we could rename San Jose to something meaning "Town full of dickless internet yuppies crying over their repossesed SUV's"

They can't come to the US (4, Funny)

Rupert (28001) | about 13 years ago | (#2226430)

... because their competitors would have them arrested.

It's the American Way.

Da, Good Idea. (1)

zulux (112259) | about 13 years ago | (#2226431)

Good idea, Borris staying in mother Russia. Hearing reports of Gulag anal penetration of comrade Dimitry, makes Borris happy to being home on computer.

Chantilly .. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226432)

I used to work in Chantilly - I think I can understand why their programmers would want to stay in Novosibirsk .. (gotta wonder about a small hick town in N. VA where the local high school theme song is "Chantilly Lace")

Instant Messaging (1)

sporty (27564) | about 13 years ago | (#2226435)

Does it count that we all instant message each other vs walking over/turning our head to talk to each other?

A grand a month? (3, Interesting)

jcr (53032) | about 13 years ago | (#2226436)

It seems to me that paying these guys only what they ask for is rather short-sighted.

If I were employing coders in Russia, I'd pay what they would cost me here. Why? Because for that price, I'd be able to get the Russian equivalents of Donald Knuth, or (insert your favorite god of coding's name here).


Re:A grand a month? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226457)

bah, then why use someone from russia? it is all about saving costs. don't you know the basic thing in a business?

Re:A grand a month? (1)

sys$manager (25156) | about 13 years ago | (#2226540)

Keep in mind, most slashdot readers code for free!

Sounds like a pain (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226438)

With all the various laws that govern international workers and multinational businesses, I don't see many companies taking this route.

probably win-win situation for all (1)

psych031337 (449156) | about 13 years ago | (#2226439)

- Seen from the point of view of the company, they probably are the cheapest personnel around. They don't have the bureaucracy to deal with. They don't have to equip cubicles or expand parking. It keeps them ready to compete (especially as a small company).

- Seen from the point of view of the coders, this is probably as close to heaven as they can get. They get paid hard dollars, withour having to apply for visas, green cards, etc. They can stay home in their social environment to support their relatives. They can deliver their highquality work to someone who appreciates.

Yeah, NASA (1)

packethead (322873) | about 13 years ago | (#2226442)

Telemetry ops in Houston?

Re:Yeah, NASA (1)

anichan (205614) | about 13 years ago | (#2226491)

Cool. I assume GEO satellites since LEO would be much less than the few thousand miles it is from Russia to VA. ;)

Re:Yeah, NASA (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226558)

not when the shuttle or station is on the other side of the earth

man ... (1)

ReidMaynard (161608) | about 13 years ago | (#2226445)

I wish my manager was in Siberia ......

Does it matter? (4, Funny)

GiorgioG (225675) | about 13 years ago | (#2226446)

I telecommute - I could be dealing with a customer in Belgium, in Denver, CO or to the company down the street from my house (in Buffalo, NY) - who cares as far as I'm concerned? I'm sitting in my office @ home and I could be dealing with a client on Pluto, doesn't change much for me..

See, that's the whole point, telecommuting - you can work from anywhere. Who approves these submissions and why haven't they been shot? ;-)

Re:Does it matter? (2, Funny)

mutende (13564) | about 13 years ago | (#2226531)

I'm sitting in my office @ home and I could be dealing with a client on Pluto, doesn't change much for me...

Except, perhaps, for your ping times...

Re:Does it matter? (1)

GiorgioG (225675) | about 13 years ago | (#2226554)

Hmm. Our main dev server is in denver, I'm Buffalo, NY - ping time: 70ms. That's damn good for a game server ;-)

Re:Does it matter? (1)

jeffy124 (453342) | about 13 years ago | (#2226618)

the guy was talking pinging a server on pluto. I'd estimate it 10 hours round trip if the icmp packet travels at the speed of light.

Re:Does it matter? (1)

ethereal (13958) | about 13 years ago | (#2226552)

Here's why it matters - customers in Buffalo aren't going to pay you well enough to live in Silicon Valley and do this. Of course, if you lived in Buffalo and telecommunicated to SV you'd be in great shape :)

Re:Does it matter? (1)

GiorgioG (225675) | about 13 years ago | (#2226605)

True, maybe the cost of living will shape up in SV as a result of more telecommuting...I'm not holding my breath ;-)

Chantilly Lace (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226449)

Chantilly Lace had a pretty face and a ponytail hangin' down
A wiggle in her walk and a giggle in her talk
Make the world go 'round

Ain't nothing in the world like a big eyed girl
To make me act so funny, make me spend my money
Make me feel real loose like a long necked goose
Like a--oh baby, that's a-what I like!

What's that, baby?
But... but... but... oh, honey!
Oh baby, you know what I like!

Useful for tight deadlines! (4, Insightful)

Phrogz (43803) | about 13 years ago | (#2226456)

I went to a guest architecture lecture (my wife's in grad school) recently where the (US-bound) speaker had collaborated with an architect in Finland for a particular contest. He attributed much of their success in winning the project to that partnership; they could work almost twice as much within the tight deadline over the other competitors, trading the work off as daylight reached the respective timezones.

My company has recently been working on a project in France which has had some of our workers colocated there. While it can be frustrating if you need answers (and they've already gone home) to have to wait until they wake up again, but OTOH when timelines were tight trading the development work back and forth more than made up for the overhead of communication.

IIRC, No Magic Inc. [] offers (or at least used to offer) Lithuanian Java/C++ programmers for hire. [And not only do you get the alternate-timezone benefit, but they were cheap, too...something like $25/hour (this was 2 years ago...I dunno what their pricing is like now).

There is a downside, however, as the worker... (3, Informative)

Phrogz (43803) | about 13 years ago | (#2226520)

I forgot to add--while the above comment details some non-obvious benefits of a remote telecommuting force, there are some side-effects you should be aware of before deciding to telecommute from home.

I have been telecommuting from St. Louis to Philadelphia for over 2 years now. I've gotta say, full-time isolated telecommuting is NOT what it's all cracked up to by. From my own experience I've accumulated a good sized list of pros and cons of working at home [] .

Re:There is a downside, however, as the worker... (1)

GunFodder (208805) | about 13 years ago | (#2226608)

You forgot to mention one of the pros - the first time you attend a meeting (via telephone) wearing nothing but boxers and a smile :)

Sounds like a plan (1)

Uttles (324447) | about 13 years ago | (#2226461)

Now how long until someone sets up a Nike-style (or kathy-lee-style) sweatshop where hundreds of chinese kids sweat it out over Apple IIe's pumping out lines and lines of turbo pascal...

Re:Sounds like a plan (2)

Vuarnet (207505) | about 13 years ago | (#2226543)

Now how long until someone sets up a Nike-style (or kathy-lee-style) sweatshop where hundreds of chinese kids sweat it out over Apple IIe's pumping out lines and lines of turbo pascal...

Hmm, I always thought Microsoft had developed Windows 98 using the Chinese-hordes approach.

Programming Successes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226465)

I'm always happy to hear about success stories like these.

Especially after having graduated from a top 10
engineering school with a Computer Science degree,
and not finding work after nearly 4 months of looking.

Oh well, in ten years there will be no software
development in the United States, and US Citizens
can just go back to painting houses and working
towards that electricians certification.

Mommy, is it too late to be a fireman?

It's not that unusual.. (1)

unix guy (163468) | about 13 years ago | (#2226476)

I've worked all over the world since the late 80's and rarely leave my little cottage by the sea.. telnet's a wonderful thing...

Re:It's not that unusual.. (1)

CodingFiend (236675) | about 13 years ago | (#2226587)

[jealousy]You bastard !!!!![/jealousy]

Actually, I have had very few opportunities to work from home, and until I get a larger home with a sound-proof/wife-proof/crying-baby-proof office with a dead bolt, I get more done in less time by doing the actual commute. Sigh.

Cornholing (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226478)

Can somebody here explain to me what it means to "cornhole" someone?

My company's Egyptian office (2)

Rimbo (139781) | about 13 years ago | (#2226481)

My company's doing a similar thing. We have a handful of engineers here in California (mostly senior or specialized/highly-educated juniors), but the bulk of our staff is in Egypt.

It's not just about the cost savings. The company was founded by an Egyptian immigrant, and is staffed with several of his family members here and in Cairo. It's a way for them to give something back to their home community by providing well-paying jobs to people who simply don't have the opportunities we have.

It also poses some interesting problems. Egypt's internet infrastructure is sorely lacking. Since that's our main means of communication, it makes life difficult; a true broadband connection doesn't even exist; the 128kbps ISDN line they do use is laughably expensive, and goes down frequently.

Now imagine running the above connection over a VPN with Windows Active Directory. A small CVS check-in over the VPN takes anywhere from five to fifteen minutes -- which wouldn't be so bad if we could trust the network to stay up during that time. So one night, I set up my home Linux box (on an old P-233) with OpenSSH and CVS and did the same experiment...and it only took 20-30 seconds. Better security, better performance. Hooray for OpenSSH! Bad news for Win2k.

The Linux box for our future version control use should be arriving today. :)

Nice math... (1)

levik (52444) | about 13 years ago | (#2226488)

This appeals to Maxim Titov, 26, who was five years old when Mikhail Gorbachev came to power in Moscow, beginning the chain of events that made it possible for him to work for Plesk today.
I'm generally not one to nitpick these things, but this quote struck me as being funny. If the guy was 5 then, and is 26 now, that's 21 years' difference. Making it 1980. Gorbachev wasn't "elected" until the mid 80s.

I don't see what this little dramatic sentence adds to the story that the reporter had to make up these numbers...

Re:Nice math... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226522)

I'm generally not one to suck cocks, but this cock struck me as being tasty. If the cock was 5 inches long then, and is 26 now, that's 21 inches difference. Making it yummy. Gorbachev wasn't "gay" until he sucked my cock.

I don't see what this little dramatic cock adds to the ass that the reporter had to fuck up these numbers...

I love shoving my cock up a man's ass. I hate shoving my cock up a woman's ass.

What type of distance? (1)

tbone1 (309237) | about 13 years ago | (#2226490)

Anyone out there in a similarly distant job?

I work with marketing people in California; they are so far away from the reality here in Flyover, America, that they might as well be on the third planet out on Barbard's Star.

The MORE amazing thing... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226496)

is that there is actually a company in West Virginia!

Across the building, or across the world, same (2)

bluGill (862) | about 13 years ago | (#2226500)

It doesn't matter much if you are across the building form me, or across the world. We won't talk face to face so who cares. I know that I work with and talk face to face with people within 50 feet of my cube, but farther then that, I have better things to do.

Not that I'm lazy, just that Curt is across the wall, and I don't have to move to ask a simple question, and when I realize it wasn't simple I'm motivated to get up. John is a little farther, but I can look out the window on the way. I don't even know where Adam is, and the odds that he isn't there at the moment make it not worth my while to check, I send email. Bob is in Arizona (I'm in Minnesota), and I'll contact him and Adam the same way: email or phone.

When we set up this location we found some studies, that showed the above is typical. So they tried to put me and Adam o different projects (this helps, but even still I sometimes need him), while Curt should work on the same projects.

My boss has ordered me to work from home though at times. If you want something done, nothing is better then sitting at home and cranking it out. I can't solve every problem at home, but time at work is best spent with others planning how things will work.

It has some nice benefits (1)

doughnuthole (451165) | about 13 years ago | (#2226508)

One nice thing about telecommuting this far is that you won't be called to come in to the office in the middle of the night when something breaks that can't be fixed online.

Being on call sucks!

Nortel Networks (1)

T1girl (213375) | about 13 years ago | (#2226514)

...used to have teams of programmers, including a team in Siberia, working tag-team shifts around the globe to get rush projects finished. (I wonder if they were among the 30,000 that got laid off?)

An example (1)

dragons_flight (515217) | about 13 years ago | (#2226519)

I have a friend who works for an online magazine headquartered in MD. When her husband moved out to CA for grad school, they let telecommute from there.

Axis and Allies anyone? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226524)

it was the first thought that jumped in my mind when I saw "Novosibirsk".


I do (1)

kressb (28493) | about 13 years ago | (#2226526)

Well, not quite as far, but I live in New York
and work for a company in California. East
Coast cost of living on a West Coast salary.
It's nice.

Wherever you go, there you are.

Sweatshop? (5, Insightful)

sulli (195030) | about 13 years ago | (#2226532)

What about the following:

Lomeiko acknowledged a problem with vacations. Under Russian law each employee is entitled to 24 days of paid holiday, but Plesk can't afford the disruption that would bring, so the company tries to "limit" vacations to 10 days. The work ethic here is pretty intense.

I'm not one to crow about exploitation, but come on: they're paying Russian wages, can't they accept Russian vacations? It's not like 24 days is that much anyway, for most of the world.

Re:Sweatshop? (2)

mblase (200735) | about 13 years ago | (#2226573)

Twenty-four days is nearly an entire month; longer, when you take weekends into account (nearly five five-day work weeks). Can you imagine how much client work would pile up if half of your department's staff took the entire month of August off? If all of them too the entire month off?

True, it's a fair tradeoff for the wages. But it's also true that it's a major disruption for any business that works under deadlines.

Extreme...the other way (1)

RisingSon (107571) | about 13 years ago | (#2226538)

I used to work for a large company (20,000+ employees). My boss's cube was no more than 20 feet from mine; however, he refused human contact with all subordinates. Everything was done via email from coding requests to reports to "meetings". I only talked to him face to face a couple of times for the year that I worked there.

Good for the programmers, bad for their managers (5, Insightful)

mblase (200735) | about 13 years ago | (#2226551)

Last year while I was on a job search, I was offered a position as an information architect for a small Chicago firm. Since I'd only worked in production up till then, I was definitely intrigued. But when I heard that all the developers who'd be working under me were located in India, I declined.

I mean, the position and authority sounded great. But who'd want to manage a group of people halfway across the globe? Even if there were no language barrier to overcome, I'd be "managing" a group of programmers whose clock was off of mine by nearly twelve hours. We'd do almost all our interaction by e-mail, asynchronously.

I know from having worked only in production that unless you can meet face-to-face with your immediate supervisor on a regular basis, it's difficult if not impossible to develop any cohesion as a team. I could have told those guys what to do, and I'm sure they'd have done it, but I'd never have been able to get a sense of who they were and what they were truly capable of. I'd be managing a big black box.

Sending programming labor overseas is no new concept, and it has obvious financial advantages. But practically speaking, I'd much rather have a highly-paid programmer next door to me than an inexpensive one several thousand miles away.

Remote Supervision - IL to DC (1)

Dwiggy (180327) | about 13 years ago | (#2226555)

I was hired as the "Webmaster" for a non-profit organization in DC about a year and a half ago, and doing web design and some small development projects was wonderfully easy, even though I lived 2,000 miles from the home office. I had to travel to DC about once a month to synch up and attend various meetings, but email and phone calls were sufficient otherwise.

However, now I'm in a "whole new world" - we re-designed our staff structure in May, I was promoted to a management position, and now I supervise two staff and a consultant (our SysAdmin and two developers). My phone bills have tripled in size and I've been doing my best to stay "plugged in" to my staff through email and instant messaging as much as possible. But sometimes I wonder - would my team be more or less productive if I was sitting in the same building with them? How much do they miss the opportunity to walk into my office to discuss problems or concerns? Or is this an ideal situation for both of us? In this arrangement, I can stay focused on my work full-time with limited interruptions, and they can come in late without worrying about angering The Boss. ;-)

I can't imagine that this kind of remote supervision is a common practice... or is it? If anyone else out there has had this kind of experience, I'd love to hear about it. I'd also be curious to know how people communicate with their staff - is everything done via phone and email, or are there other media that you find useful?

virtual team's suck (2, Interesting)

awerg (201320) | about 13 years ago | (#2226564)

I have a Development team in USA and France. I also have a team of business analsysts all over the world. Which means that I get a break on Saturday for the business people.... from Saturday night (Sunday in Israel is a work day ) till Friday night (end of US work day). And 24x7 for the Development team. (because they work whenever)

My advise...

If they offer you a PM position for a global project say NO!.

virtual teams suck

People need to have some interaction in order to have a group goal and synergy. It is much easier to yell across the cube for the database call then to send an email to someone who is asleep.

It is not impossible to have a team work virtually, but it is not as effective as a group that works in the same room.


From Cuba with Love (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 13 years ago | (#2226569)

My former company is doing a similar thing, but a bit more intriguing IMHO: They've set up a subsidiary in Havanna, Cuba, but are actually based in Zurich, Switzerland. As far as I've heard (never been there) the circumstances are similar to the ones in Egypt - 128k connection, unreliable, etc.

Yeah, I do that! ;) (1)

bogdant (264726) | about 13 years ago | (#2226576)

I do live in Romania, but work for a German company. Indeed, telnet is a wonderful thing.
Of course, I'm doing that because nobody offered me a H1-B yet. Anybody??? ;)

The advantage is in the time zone... (1)

stomv (80392) | about 13 years ago | (#2226577)

OK -- I haven't read the article and don't plan to, but lend me an ear anyway:

Most programmers like to bang on the keyboards at night. It's a phenomenon; hackers burn midnight oil more efficiently. Most management likes to work during the day. This could be due to things like family, evening television, whatever.

Now, they can work in their timespace of preference, at the same time. Sure enough, it would also work if management was in Russia and the programmers were in Honolulu, although that seems like a perfectly good way to waste a lei joke.

Yeah, distance doesn't make it extreme (1)

ahfoo (223186) | about 13 years ago | (#2226584)

Calling telecommuting extreme because it's far away doesn't make much sense. After all, when we add the "tele" prefix we're supposed to assume it's distant. I have to agree with an earlier poster who raised this question.
But whatever, I'll still take the bait. I'm an American living in Taiwan and I work for a company in France. (not Dassault, I swear)
Ta Da! Did I win?
In fact, I did. It's rad. It's not the kind of situation you find in the local paper help wanted section, but if things work out that way, so be it.
Gratified to have shared my exotic little post card better-than-that-russia-stuff image, I return to the fact that this was a ridiculous premise. Anybody anywhere on the face of the earth with a working phone may as well be anywhere else where there's another working phone and that's hardly a news story.
Hang the DJ!

telecommuting from netherlands (1)

fdsafsdaf (471840) | about 13 years ago | (#2226585)

I've been working as a sysadmin/programmer for a nyc based company for the last 4 or 5 years during my undergraduate and (currently) graduate study in the netherlands. They pay me a good salary (for new york standards, which is great for european standards) but most importantly: my job hardly conflicts with school. Telecommuting gives me a lot of flexibility in planning my time.

GNU/Linux Proves that this is moot (1)

Marvin_Runyon (513878) | about 13 years ago | (#2226600)

GNU/Linux has shown us that telecomuting for software development is unnecisary, since having an actual office is no longer a requirement for a software project.

How many succesful large FreeSoftware projects have actual offices? Not very many.

I think in the future we will see people who actualy commute to be the novelty.
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