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Firefox 29 Beta Arrives With UI Overhaul And CSS3 Variables

Unknown Lamer posted about 4 months ago | from the var()-considered-awesome dept.

Firefox 256

An anonymous reader writes "Following the release of Firefox 28 just two days ago, Mozilla today updated its Firefox Beta channel to version 29 for Windows, Mac, Linux, and Android. This is a massive release: Firefox Sync has been revamped and is now powered by Firefox Accounts, there's a new customization mode, and the major user interface overhaul Australis has finally arrived. Release notes are here: Desktop and Android." Of interest to developers: Firefox 29 will feature the first implementation of CSS3 variables. Yes, variables for CSS (15 years later).

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256 comments

New UI? (4, Insightful)

MrYingster (594507) | about 4 months ago | (#46538331)

So... It looks like chrome now?

Don't get me wrong... I like the look, but it seems somehow.... unfirefoxy...

Re:New UI? (5, Interesting)

SimonTheSoundMan (1012395) | about 4 months ago | (#46538427)

Chrome looks like Firefox - Mozilla did the research for a new UI and UX, collected tons of data through Test Pilot project, released the data to the public, before Firefox 4 was released with the new UI, Google came out with Chrome that looked very similar to what Mozilla drew up in mock UI's. This just completes the overhaul of the UI. A little late as it was a low priority. Sad story, but true.

Re:New UI? (2)

MrYingster (594507) | about 4 months ago | (#46538451)

Wow. That's actually quite interesting! Thanks for enlightening me. Well, as superficial as it is, I'm glad the new UI is here. I like it when application refine things to make better use of space.

Re:New UI? (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | about 4 months ago | (#46539201)

I like it when application refine things to make better use of space.

For users on small screens, that might be an advantage, though I'm slightly wondering how many people use the default versions of things like tabs rather than a plug-in anyway.

I hope they aren't doing it at the expense of stability in the UI, though. I use Firefox on big screens, so saving a few pixels here and there has little benefit to me, but moving everything around just because I "upgraded" is infuriating.

Re:New UI? (5, Insightful)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | about 4 months ago | (#46538643)

The reason I use Firefox is because it DOESN'T have the horrible Chrome interface. I've run out of curse words to describe my anger at all the interface overhauls over the last few years. MS Office...Unity...Firefox...Windows 8...*cough* Slashdot...

Re:New UI? (5, Interesting)

dosius (230542) | about 4 months ago | (#46539509)

It's why I use Seamonkey, they don't change the UI willy-nilly, but it's Firefox under the hood.

Re:New UI? (1)

sootman (158191) | about 4 months ago | (#46539563)

> *cough* Slashdot...

I invented new curse words for Beta. DM me for a list...
 
... when Slashdot implements DMs. :-)

Re:New UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539605)

This is why I still use Netscape 3.01. Fuck all these new UI's!

Re:New UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538655)

Same goes for the Download Panel: mockups have been made by Mozilla, followed by their usual nut scratching, meanwhile Apple adopted the idea into Safari.
http://limi.net/articles/safari-downloads/

Re:New UI? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538781)

Chrome looks like Firefox - Mozilla did the research for a new UI and UX, collected tons of data through Test Pilot project, released the data to the public, before Firefox 4 was released with the new UI,

And there's the catch-22: Anybody with two fucking brains to rub together disables "features" like telemetry, just on general principle. UX people have no way to track what power users do, nor even to estimate their prevalence in the population, and so we wind up with UXes designed for morons.

The last good UI for Fx was 3.6. When UI becomes UX, products become suck.

Re:New UI? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538975)

You are half right. To have taken part in those studies, you would have had to go out of your way to download the test pilot add-on and then agreed to do the UI/UX test. So on the one hand, they have people like me who actively didn't install test pilot because I don't want to be bothered and people like my parents who don't even know the add-exists.

Re:New UI? (2)

akgunkel (567825) | about 4 months ago | (#46539355)

And there's the catch-22: Anybody with two fucking brains to rub together disables "features" like telemetry, just on general principle.

Is it common to have more than one brain? You make it sound like two brains is a low number. Why do I only have one? Does that mean I'm retarded? How many brains do you have anyway? I have so many questions about your post...

Re:New UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539091)

Bullshit. Google Chrome came out at the end of 2008, around the same time firefox 3 came out. Firefox 4 came out over 2 years later and mozilla was still only toying with the idea of tabs on top, much less a UI that looked like chrome.

Re:New UI? (2)

ASimPerson (138798) | about 4 months ago | (#46539285)

This is interesting... link?

Re:New UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538459)

Seems firefox has been heading towards more minimalistic and less customizable layout since v4...

But yeah, looks too much like chrome now.

Re:New UI? (4, Interesting)

UltraZelda64 (2309504) | about 4 months ago | (#46538677)

If I wanted to use Chrome, I would be using Chrome right now. But I'm not--I use Firefox, and have been putting up with Mozilla's shit for years now, screwing up and dumbing down the interface. Now, they're making it a direct Chrome clone. I think I'll be switching to SeaMonkey soon. I'm sick of Mozilla's bullshit. The creation of the Mozilla Corporation, as I see it, was the start of Mozilla's downfall.

Re:New UI? (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538835)

I can understand being upset about change. Even change this innocuous in the grand scheme of things. But what exactly have you done for Mozilla that warrants you talking like they owe you something? What makes you think that Seamonkey will live on if Firefox goes away? What exactly makes you think that Firefox should always work the way YOU want it to, and that Seamonkey (or any other browser) won't eventually change so much that you hate them too? Can't you be a little less of a child about this?

Re:New UI? (1)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | about 4 months ago | (#46539229)

Mozilla makes a lot of money, and it does it because users use Firefox. The fact that they currently make most of the money indirectly rather than from the users themselves does not change this, and upsetting lots of users by taking a product they like and making it worse is a terrible business strategy. Of course Mozilla doesn't owe Joe Randomuser exactly the browser they want, but it cuts both ways, and Joe Randomuser doesn't owe Mozilla a +1 in the number of users column next time they're renegotiating with Google either.

Re:New UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539335)

It technically doesn't even matter if Mozilla are making more money now. Most of the people blustering about leaving will be switching to Sea Monkey or some other knock-off that retains the older UI appearance. They won't even stop to consider the irony of how they're still relying on and paying for Mozilla's hard work, so money's got nothing to do with it.

And that's if I'm being kind and assuming that all the users agree with your premise that this is "worse" (and not just a few people who don't like having to be the ones to customize Firefox with addons/skins for a change). But I don't count myself as their most important user, and neither should you. If Mozilla doesn't keep up with the times, then we'll lose Firefox completely. It's fine to bark when you're just pitching in a miniscule amount, but that doesn't exactly put you on the board of directors.

Mozilla has already spent years on modernizing the code for the UI, and if they try to please everyone it never will get done. And that would be even more of a shame, because it makes it easier to customize a lot of things, and it's also helping pave the way for them to fix a lot of UI bugs and support modern OS toolkits a little more properly. I've learned to adapt to it, because I realize that life's too damn short to care about the placement of a button or two, so I long ago learned to use my keyboard instead.

Re:New UI? (3, Insightful)

Kalriath (849904) | about 4 months ago | (#46539427)

Um, he uses Firefox. That entitles him to talk like Mozilla owes him some consideration. The funding Mozilla gets from Google is premised on Mozilla having market share after all - if everyone stopped using Firefox, Mozilla would have no money.

Re:New UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539101)

I honestly just switched to Chrome outright once the new UI hit the nightly builds (what I was using). If I'm going to use Chrome, I may as well use actual chrome. At least there my thousand tabs generally manage to stay all onscreen at once, as opposed to the new "almost Chrome" that FF now has. I tried using Palemoon before... but just blecth, awful.

Re:New UI? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539151)

In the time it took you to write your rant, you could've customized the Firefox UI exactly how you like it.

Re:New UI? (1)

Blaskowicz (634489) | about 4 months ago | (#46539553)

This is I was going to write. I don't know if the new UI changes that stuff, but the Firefox is very powerful. I appreciate that I can add or remove buttons and put them anywhere (lately, zooming buttons have got even more useful). I even get to have a menu bar, which gives instant access to stuff.

Google doesnt care about making bookmarks, history etc. easily accessible, they'd rather have you spend your time using Google products. i.e. they let me click a yellow star, or open the last closed tab (only the last one), that's not the same thing as having all handy plus the possibility of arbitrary extension.

Re:New UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539231)

So you didn't read the parent comment did you?

Re:New UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538805)

It looks like an app. Terrible.

Re:New UI? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538827)

Er, it is an app.

Re:New UI? (0)

gigaherz (2653757) | about 4 months ago | (#46538885)

I was using Nightly, until Australis was added. I used Aurora, until Australis was included. I used Beta, until today. Now I'm at the Release 28, and I guess I have 6 weeks left to decide what to do when I uninstall Firefox from my pc.

Re:New UI? (1)

jez9999 (618189) | about 4 months ago | (#46539127)

Install SeaMonkey and use my theme and addon to get it looking and Feeling like Firefox 3.

CSS sucks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538343)

You'll still need a table to do a three column layout.

Re:CSS sucks (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538417)

no... you need to learn how to use CSS

Re:CSS sucks (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538441)

No, you don't. Setup your divs, then learn how to use CSS

#container { display: table; }

#row { display: table-row; }

#left, #right, #middle { display: table-cell; }

No tables are required for the infamous three-column layout. This isn't new. You've been able to do this everywhere for more than a decade.

Re:CSS sucks (0, Troll)

idontusenumbers (1367883) | about 4 months ago | (#46538557)

So you hack elements into a table? How is that not using a table for 3 column layout? Why not just actually use a table? You can hack the elements away from being a table to get a mobile version.

Re:CSS sucks (2)

wiredlogic (135348) | about 4 months ago | (#46538575)

Because it isn't a table. It can be rendered in a single column if a browser (lynx for instance) can't do three column.

Re:CSS sucks (0, Troll)

idontusenumbers (1367883) | about 4 months ago | (#46538599)

IE6 is a 10,000 times more valid target browser than lynx.

Re:CSS sucks (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538583)

You don't need tables... As long as you use tables. Thanks, that's really helpful.

Re:CSS sucks (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538685)

Sorry, are you a moron?

The example does not use tables. Just divs with the display property changed. Divs are not tables.

How pathetic a developer do you have to be to not even understand basic HTML? Slashdot is dead.

Re:CSS sucks (2, Informative)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about 4 months ago | (#46538713)

I guess the top parent never learned anything about content vs presentation.

Hint: tables are to be used for tabular data. If you'd write your data inside an Excel sheet, use a table. Otherwise, don't.

Re:CSS sucks (1)

themightythor (673485) | about 4 months ago | (#46538977)

. If you'd write your data inside an Excel sheet, use a table. Otherwise, don't.

Checked and raised [spoon-tamago.com]

Re:CSS sucks (1)

pspahn (1175617) | about 4 months ago | (#46539487)

Using a non-table element with table display properties is not the same as using a generic table element.

The HTML holds the semantic value, not the CSS. You use a table element when you want the HTML to be semantically labeled as a table (for, you know, tabular data). You use `display: table-cell;` for when you want the element to behave as a table cell, but you don't want the HTML to be labeled as a table (because it's not tabular data).

Re:CSS sucks (1)

Kalriath (849904) | about 4 months ago | (#46539435)

That's what "float" is for.

UI Overhaul Every Release (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538357)

Maybe instead of complaining that menus behave unpredictably outside of tabs you could fix the problem instead of giving every tab a menu?

Re:UI Overhaul Every Release (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538413)

Incompetent web designers in charge of application development, since ~2005.

CSS variables? (1)

cultiv8 (1660093) | about 4 months ago | (#46538367)

Been doing that in SASS since 2007, browser support not required.

Re:CSS variables? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538527)

It would be pretty nice to not need the preprocessor, though.

Re:CSS variables? (4, Insightful)

dingen (958134) | about 4 months ago | (#46538547)

The very existence of SASS and LESS prove CSS needs to be fixed. Introducing variables in CSS is one step in the right direction of making SASS/LESS obsolete.

Re:CSS variables? (2)

ArcadeMan (2766669) | about 4 months ago | (#46538721)

But since we need ALL browsers to support CSS variables, in the same manner, it means we won't be able to use that before around 2024 because of Microsoft.

Not enabled by default until Firefox 31 (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538739)

Firefox 31 only just fixed a bug where CSS variables of data: images in generated content are not visible until the real (non-var) string is used [mozilla.org]
Also, they have just changed the format spec for CSS variables in the last day or two from var-foo: stringOfProperties to --foo: stringOfProperties and as a property from var(foo) to var(--foo), so the the testcase [mozilla.org] on that bug won't work once Firefox updates to the new format.

Re:CSS variables? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538979)

Hilarious and sad to see the decades long crusade against global variables come full circle. You see, these new framework coder kids still need to learn a few things from us old linear programming salts...

I agree wholeheartedly that the mere existence of SASS and LESS are an abomination. If you can't explain it to a 6 year old, its too complicated.

Re:CSS variables? (2)

Anonymous Brave Guy (457657) | about 4 months ago | (#46539257)

The very existence of SASS and LESS prove CSS needs to be fixed.

I'd rather say their creation proved that CSS needed to be fixed. They came along and fixed it reasonably well, at least in those respects where they were also evidence of a problem in the first place.

Re:CSS variables? (3, Informative)

roca (43122) | about 4 months ago | (#46538861)

CSS Variables are actually better described as CSS Custom Properties. They aren't just SASS-style global macros, they're far more powerful. Different elements can have different values for the same custom property, and custom property values set on an element are inherited by its descendants, respecting dynamic DOM changes etc. Custom property values can be set dynamically by scripts and those changes are of course automatically inherited.

Re:CSS variables? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538931)

So what's the format to use for these CSS variables?

Re:CSS variables? (1)

dingen (958134) | about 4 months ago | (#46539235)

Mozilla has a page on how to use CSS variables here: https://developer.mozilla.org/... [mozilla.org]

been using accounts in aurora for a month already (5, Interesting)

g4sy (694060) | about 4 months ago | (#46538379)

personally i'm signing up for firefox accounts. yah, i trust them more than google. no, not because they run around yelling "we're not evil", but because i admire their mission statement and purpose and they have stayed true to it. unixy in a way. firefox is a jewel in the free software crown and for that i will trust them with my bookmarks.

Re:been using accounts in aurora for a month alrea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538447)

A jewel paid for mostly by google.

Re:been using accounts in aurora for a month alrea (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538477)

Nicely said but there is no need for trust.

Firefox Sync is end-to-end encrypted so Mozilla does not see your bookmarks.

Re:been using accounts in aurora for a month alrea (2)

VVelox (819695) | about 4 months ago | (#46538843)

Irrelevant. One should not have to rely on a specific company on that, but it should be a well layed out mechanism that allows one to sync to a server of choice, allowing one to host it themselves instead of relying on third parties.

Re:been using accounts in aurora for a month alrea (5, Insightful)

VVelox (819695) | about 4 months ago | (#46538829)

Fuck 'em both. There really needs to be a method for syncing to a server of one's choice instead of relying on third parties.

Self hosting FTW.

Re:been using accounts in aurora for a month alrea (5, Informative)

Z-Ramm (1120645) | about 4 months ago | (#46539225)

It sounds like you CAN host your own Firefox Sync server.

"As with the previous version of Firefox sync, users still have the option to take their data with them and host their own sync service using the open source server-side software."

https://github.com/mozilla/fxa... [github.com]

Self-host firefox accounts (2)

g4sy (694060) | about 4 months ago | (#46539339)

Please mod parent up. Self-hosting is a very important point, it was the second part of my thinking in adopting the new firefox account last month, but I forgot to mention it in my earlier post. The other cool thing about self-hosting it is that organizations can perhaps have internal social bookmarking (which could be awesome for dev teams and ops teams). You'd just have to extend the firefox accounts server with the social features which would enhance colaboration

Self hosting FTW :D I currently have all my bookmarks stored in the owncloud bookmark toolbar but until the improv [makeplaylive.com] s i've ordered actually get shipped I don't have a good embedded device to run my owncloud on and the raspberry pi that's currently hosting owncloud is a little slow. Firefox accounts just makes it easier, and I will be able to self host it on my improv or whatever. To the GP, can you tell me what hardware you're using to self host? I've found the raspberry pi unacceptably slow (but I need to give seafile another shot) so I'm considering buying a beagleboard if the improv never ships :( Anyone using a parallela [parallella.org] to self-host?

Re:been using accounts in aurora for a month alrea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538925)

Good luck finding your bookmarks with the new interface.

Re:been using accounts in aurora for a month alrea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539239)

Ctrl-B - Oh hey, there's my bookmarks.

Ctrl-Shift-B - Oh hey, there's my bookmarks.

Click the "Show your Bookmarks" button in the toolbar (or menu panel) - Oh hey, there's my bookmarks.

Show the menu bar, open the Bookmarks menu - Oh hey, there's my bookmarks.

Re:been using accounts in aurora for a month alrea (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539321)

We gotta learn EMACS to run firefox?

New UI (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538421)

So it's an ugly chrome with memory leaks?
yay

New? (1)

zacherynuk (2782105) | about 4 months ago | (#46538423)

Looks like GEM to me :(

As an added bonus : (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538445)

Firefux will crash 10x as previous version so what little use Firefux had it will have none now and it is up there with Fuckle Chrap and Internet Exploder. Stick with [isc.org] Lynx as it is the most stable and lightweight browser there is plus there is no way a script-kiddie can break into it since it doesn't execute code at all.

Re:As an added bonus : (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538469)

Firefux will crash 10x as often as previous version so what little use Firefux had it will have none now and it is up there with Fuckle Chrap and Internet Exploder. Stick with [isc.org]Lynx as it is the most stable and lightweight browser there is plus there is no way a script-kiddie can break into it since it doesn't execute code at all.

bold text for reflected changes.

Re:As an added bonus : (1)

TangoMargarine (1617195) | about 4 months ago | (#46538659)

And your link is still broken.

Is "Fuckle Chrap" supposed to be "Google Chrome"? Stretching it a bit too far there.

Re: As an added bonus : (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539593)

Firefux is kinda creative though

use this extension when you cannot stand australis (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538473)

Classic Theme Restorer will restore your sanity
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/

If we wanted an ugly version of Chrome, we'd use Chrome!

Also recommended - Status-4-Evar extension (you need the dev version for FF 29)

Re:use this extension when you cannot stand austra (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538593)

Or you just try Australis Slimmr, if you kind of like it but think it has too much padding. One genuinely nice thing about Australis is that it's easier to tweak the UI with CSS using a user stylesheet or something like the Sylish addon. It should become a fair bit easier to create and maintain skins and addons now.

Re:use this extension when you cannot stand austra (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538707)

Thanks, CTR is a life saver. It is sad how FF thinks they need to emulate others and remove existing features. Why does one need to spend an hour after each update trying to find extensions and tutorials, how to restore at least most of the previous functionality one had? Is FF trying to get rid of their existing customers?

Re:use this extension when you cannot stand austra (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538761)

I don't care what it looks like, I'm just worried about what "rarely used" features I depend on they're going to take away this time.

Re:use this extension when you cannot stand austra (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538811)

The ability to hide the Navigation bar is gone along with the ability to drag the URL bar to another toolbar, the star for bookmarking a site from inside the urlbar is gone, and the desire to stick with small icons of extensions isn't satisfied (they change size depending where you drag them).
Luckily CTR also restores all this functionality too.

Re:use this extension when you cannot stand austra (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539015)

I've been using this for a while, I want the forward/back as well as the stop/refresh buttons on the far left as they've always been, and Australis merged them into the URL bar. (WHY!?)

I don't mind the curves, but they use a lot more vertical space than the classic rectangles, doubly so as I use tree-style-tab as an essential extension.

Oh no, not another one... (1)

K. S. Kyosuke (729550) | about 4 months ago | (#46538495)

In imperative programming languages, like Java, C++ or even JavaScript, the state can be tracked through the notion of variables. Variables are symbolic names associated with a given value, that can vary with the time. In a declarative language like CSS, time-changing values are not common and the concept of variables is pretty uncommon.

Seems like people who confuse the notions of variables, mutable bindings and mutable values still haven't died out. OK, I'll wait another ten years...

Good, and iceweasel (1)

Grindalf (1089511) | about 4 months ago | (#46538513)

I wonder if the opensource Firefox equivalent iceweasel will be similarly augmented?

Re:Good, and iceweasel (1)

wiredlogic (135348) | about 4 months ago | (#46539039)

I wonder if iceweasel will ever learn to play nice and run when a firefox process is already running.

Nickname for the new UI? (2)

OzPeter (195038) | about 4 months ago | (#46538565)

Why am I thinking of Terror Australis all of a sudden?

New UI (2)

idontusenumbers (1367883) | about 4 months ago | (#46538573)

This isn't progress. This is a designer taking over for UX. Bad bad bad.

Re:New UI (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539025)

Someobody has to employ that new kid right out of Art School. And it seems that somebody ended up being Mozilla. I don't like the idiotified look of Windows 8 and I certainly don't want my applications to fall into this same (horrid) design hole one by one!

Re:New UI (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539047)

Named Australis = turning everything upside down. "Back in the day" we had a 14" CRT monitor in a 4:3 format and programs had actual buttons to click on and you could tell what everything would do just by looking at it. Now I have a monitor with 4x the screen area and 10x the resolution and every damn menu item is hidden 3 clicks away behind some obscure symbol.

Close button on OS X (1)

gsa700 (528385) | about 4 months ago | (#46538649)

I've been running Firefox since it was called Navigator 3.0 but for the life of me I can't understand why they cannot put the tab close button on the left like every other Mac application in the world. Seriously.

Re:Close button on OS X (0)

narcc (412956) | about 4 months ago | (#46538717)

Probably because they don't have the resources to cater to a tiny niche using an obscure OS?

Re:Close button on OS X (1)

gsa700 (528385) | about 4 months ago | (#46539109)

I would see your point if it in any way accurate.

Re:Close button on OS X (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539369)

I'm just glad at all the effort they HAVE put into their OSX version over the last couple of years. It actually works quite well now, and much more like an OSX app "should". In fact Australis makes it easier to customize the placement of the tab button. If I cared I'd install Stylish and figure out the necessary CSS tweak, but I don't. I use cmd-w to close my tabs, like anyone with fingers who doesn't have the time to hunt for those stupid buttons to begin with.

shebang boom (1)

epine (68316) | about 4 months ago | (#46538903)

The Australis link crashed my plugin-stuffed Mint 16 Firefox 28 shebang twice in a row. I got a good laugh. No problems recently, until this link.

No respect for the HIG (5, Insightful)

Stormwatch (703920) | about 4 months ago | (#46538907)

These days, interface designers think a HIG [wikipedia.org] should be printed on toilet paper. Browsers now always look "alien" to whatever environment where they're run. Here's a tip, you dolts: cut this "too cool for rules" bullshit. Each system gives you standard windows, standard buttons, standard decorations, standard everything -- use them, always! Regard the HIG as a holy bible! Make the program belong with the system!

Re:No respect for the HIG (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538993)

Tell that to Mozilla, who have been working ceaselessly to get Firefox to behave more like OSX users expect it should behave for years now, not to mention porting it to GTK3 and QT, and slowly trying to use what time they have to improve the Android and Windows 7 releases. They even made a Metro interface that was pretty excellent compared to Chrome just taking over and turning it into ChromeOS.

Some things just don't happen as easily as you'd like. Browsers aren't simple programs, they have their own UI that doesn't fit cleanly into every OS's HIG guidelines. Yes, there are a thousand papercuts left to fix, but don't try to tell me that Mozilla isn't working hard to fix them because I haven't seen any evidence to the contrary. What? You don't like the new tab bar? Then install a skin like the rest of us. Or will you also complain about having to customize Firefox to work exactly the way you want it to?

Re:No respect for the HIG (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539087)

The new generation of coders and designers think anything pre-2000 is old school and should be discarded as completely invalid. This is the problem.

Re:No respect for the HIG (1)

Shados (741919) | about 4 months ago | (#46539401)

Its a big problem in general. I work for a large company with a massive usability and creative department.

Yet, the usability people, who spend weeks after weeks doing studies after studies with focus groups, still end up with justifications such as "Well, I personally think this is easier" and "I think this is ugly, lets do it another way".

Then the creative people just ignore every rules, guidelines, and standards, and we end up with applications where every screen looks different, just so it can be pretty. And for the web stuff, they want mouse overs everywhere!!! (even though 40% of our viewers are on ipads and can't even see mouse overs).

And god forbid we use the built in input components. Native drop down menu (which looks different per environment to suit it better....ie: tablet vs desktop)? FORGET IT. Lets write our own that looks like crap everywhere!

Massive release? (1)

EmagGeek (574360) | about 4 months ago | (#46538911)

If it's just a massive release, why did they only increment the minor version number? Why not something equally massive like going from 28 to say, 11000?

Re:Massive release? (1)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538997)

Because 11000 is only 24 you moron!

Countdown to Extinction (3, Interesting)

rudy_wayne (414635) | about 4 months ago | (#46538943)

For the past couple of years the Mozilla developers have been hard at work removing features from Firefox and making it less and less useful. We've been able to (mostly) work around these stupid, pointless changes with the use of additional extensions. Having to add extensions to bring back features that have been removed is stupid, but it works.

Now, with the new "Australis" design they take things to a whole new level. Australis completely destroys almost everything that made Firefox popular in the first place. An enormous amount of flexibility and customizability has been removed. But not just removed. Completely ripped out in such a way that getting it back through extensions (which are just bits of Javascript and CSS) will be difficult, if not impossible. Extensions such as "Classic Theme Restorer" [mozilla.org] attempt to undo some of the damage, but are only able to do so in a very limited way.

Firefox, as we know it, will soon be gone. What a bunch of assholes.

Re:Countdown to Extinction (1)

jez9999 (618189) | about 4 months ago | (#46539019)

Yeah. I dunno who developed that Classic Theme Restorer, but good luck to 'em. They'll need it. I gave up on FF and switched to SeaMonkey's browser ages ago because that addon is basically having to overhaul the entire UI to restore what was there before - the UX people don't give a shit about what long-term users want, or customizability. If the developer of that addon wants to plow their life into maintaining it through all the constant changes that Firefox gets, against the will of the Firefox UX people, I don't know where they get their time. :-)

Re:Countdown to Extinction (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539171)

Holy. I might actually change back to Firefox just to spite you selfish idiots on principle. It's easy to call Mozilla assholes and ignore how much of an asshole you're being yourself. I've been monitoring this "discussion" about Australis for months now, and have learned a lot about it just by osmosis. Now I just tried it out, and I have to say: stop being such a prissy little drama queen.

Australis isn't "changing everything". Firefox was never popular because of it's ancient-looking UI. It won't be impossible to replace the "lost" customizations, someone who cares just has to actually get off their loud-mouthed ass and fucking do it, instead of whining about it and using a third-party browser that relies on Firefox anyway. If you're not going to help out, then stop humming and hawing like an entitled little shit. "Wah! Firefox isn't 100% the way I want it anymore! Wah! I have to install more addons now because I hate all change I dislike like I'm a little baby!"

Christ, I still remember Firefox 3 and this version is more customizable than it was. Just because you have to install an addon to get a toolbar back or swap the placement of a couple of buttons is not the end of the world. Us Chrome users can't change jack shit about the UI. It's like the Twilight Zone listening to you pricks lament all this "loss" instead of pooling your efforts to do what you're supposed to do and make a fucking addon or skin. Australis even makes that easier for you, but all you can do is point fingers at Mozilla while still using a knock off of their hard work.

Re:Countdown to Extinction (1)

jopsen (885607) | about 4 months ago | (#46539265)

Well, no matter what change happens to Firefox, somebody will be unhappy.

Don't get me wrong though, I loved the classic UI, the fact that buttons, etc. looks like other buttons on my OS.
But these days, no matter where I go, gnome-shell, unity, windows 8, office 2007, the UI is messed up. Everybody thinks they need to reinvent their own theme and UI concept, as if an application was a website.

Having used FF nightly for a while though, I must say that Australis isn't that revolutionary. It does look a little like most other GTK apps.

And wrt. to customization, I think that customization is easier with australis. So hopefully more people (not just super power users), will start customizing their browser, just a little bit.

Dark System/Desktop Themes (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46538987)

I see stays true to the old UI, in the sense that despite having 'use system colours' off, it uses a bunch of them anyway!
I can't see shit in the new 'customisation' area! It's full of greys on marginally different greys!

How about a more responsive GUI?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539107)

Rather then a new GUI look, I would rather them put more resources into a more responsive Multiprocess Firefox. A good talk about this is at: http://billmccloskey.wordpress.com/2013/12/05/multiprocess-firefox/

At least the new UI got one thing right (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 4 months ago | (#46539115)

They kept a dedicated search bar.

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